Customer Replaced Correct Part...but Jeep is STILL BROKEN? (99 Wrangler P0171)
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2022
- Customer brought his 1999 Jeep Wrangler over to diagnose an annoying low power stumbling condition. Code set is a P0171-System LEAN. But it sure feels like it's running rich...
His wife is upset that they are missing this beautiful top-down weather, so there is not a second to lose!
THINKTOOL PROS:
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Enjoy!
Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Customers use to bring me a list of things they had done and tell me I didn't need to do those again. I'd take that list and start checking their work. It never took very long to find the problem! Hey, at least they tried! Thanks for Sharing!
The old "Show me where you've been and I'll show you the problem".
you know what the problem is- find the cause
Some ebay sellers are selling really nicely boxed counterfeits. I've been fooled. If they don't have a huge presence and a bricks and mortar store caveat emperator. You may do better with junk yard part rather than a no name.There are videos on the dangers of using no name fuses. As complicated as cars electronics are, you cannot gamble on no names, and even some long established brands are just names owed by Chinese firms. It makes you both sad and mad. Good video thanks.
Search on You Tube : " Weber Auto , fuses " . The professor at an automotive college ran lab tests on different brands . The dollar store , Harbor Freight , etc. are GARBAGE and can ruin your vehicle ! How can they F/Up a fuse ? Believe it !
I bought fake ac delco spark plugs from ebay! Went to the local parts store and someone returned fakes to them too 🤦♂️
I forgot AMC built a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine for the Jeep line. I know back in the day Ponitac built a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder for the AMC cars (Spirit, Concord, Eagle) in the early 80s. Of course, AMC started buying the Pontiac engine after they bought the expensive VW 4 cylinder engine that was also used in Porche cars. Good shot of the Mystique! Great video!
Excellent excellent excellent! As usual, great diag and enjoy the comments as you diagnose!
Excellent diagnosis. OEM is the way to go whenever possible.
I love manual shift! Great thought process (also experience) getting back from the rabbit hole, followed by a simple repair - always simple when you know what you're doing :-)
a clutch in san jose traffic..just commit sepecu.
@@peter-pg5yc LOL! You have a point, but I've been in daily traffic jams for a long time and never had a clutch problem - you must know how to handle it. In Europe there are traffic jams every working day, in main cities, and the large majority of cars are stick shift, with no major impacts in clutch life. It's an habit, I guess 🙂
Had the same engine only a 1989 drove it for 350,000 miles. Loved the utilitarian 5 speed and second shifter lever for 4WD. Only time it left me stranded was the crank sensor went bad (no OBD), but it was only a mile from my mechanic; also the only time I've ever needed to use my AAA card.
@@TheOnespeedbiker Great! Got to love it when an old glory is saved from the crusher!
manual's fine as long as you don't go offroad much and sick to easy flat trails when you do.
I needed a upstream sensor for a 2005 1.7l because of a bad heater, So I took one from a parts 1.3l hybrid wired it up so the plug is right, That sensor already had over 300.000 miles on it and it still works like a charm no codes and gets Great fuel mileage, The Denso guys know how to build Quality sensors, It had the same # printed on it but of course it had a female plug versus a male swap going on, I like having good used OEM Denso part laying around, It's much cheaper than by Garbage sensors from CHINA 🤔.
I can offer some experience here, as not only the owner of a similar vintage (97) Cheroke, but as the original owner, I've owned it since it was new.
In 25 years, I've found the only sensors that work are either higher grade (e.g. made in US or Mexico) NAPA or OEM parts.
(FWIW, I've never had to replace the O2 sensors; mine are not only OEM, but original parts. 325,000 miles.)
Two sensors - oil pressure and CPS you only ever want OEM.
I have a 1994 Jeep Wrangler with the 2.5 . 5 speed. My injector went bad and burnt the head gasket between 2 and 3 cylinder...I put new gasket on and new injectors . Runs great now...Love my Jeep...LOL...Alot of fun ..Great job and Video Bud...
Thanks for the videso. Especially the oxygen sensor brand ..Yes on the standard transmission
I've always thought Bosch stuff was top notch so this was very enlightening.
They were in the past, but they seem to have gone downhill.
Great job - and so good to see a manual for a change. I can't imagine driving a Jeep with an automatic........That would be weird!
show me a Wrangler with an automatic, I'll show you a poser.
exhaust manifold leak/cracked or gasket is my first though, when seeing lean codes. if I recall, it's a Jheep thing of that vintage. 🤣🙃
and by 1:30 in video, I heard bosch sensors in a chrysler and best yet from the "zone" (corona-zone)
Years ago I had the same experience with a Bosch O2 sensor on our 97 Jeep I6. Fortunately the parts store warrantied it so no $ loss, and experience was gained.
I learned this the hard way with my WJ. Ran like complete crap until I swapped to OEM o2’s
That's what happens with aftermarket stuff don't really work in those!! Nice diagnosis!! Quick and easy for you to find! Good thing is accessible to replace lol!! Way to go, Ivan!
Another great job Ivan.always enjoy your videos.
Let's see how long the other 'new' sensors last. Thanks Ivan!
Always enjoy your videos! Each one has a bit of learning in it!
That hat and glasses are the bomb! Chuckles!!
I have exact same Jeep...just bought it the other day in hopes of fixing it up....dealing with this very problem right now....just ordered the Denso upstream from Napa this morning and fingers crossed! I noticed on the service records that came with my Jeep that the O2 sensor has been replaced in '22 and'23....I think both were Bosch so hoping this will do the trick
Fuel trim is nice and smooth after Denso 02 sensor nice
Ivangreat job with the Jeep. Also beautiful job with the millinaial security system!! Rarely see manual anything anymore. Fewer and fewer can actually drive them!!
Your knowledge of sensor operation and code interpretation continue to amaze me. With my background it’s something I definitely should have followed for a career!
great fix and wise words regarding new parts causing new problems
Ivan is very good at what he does I believe he can teach us all something about after market part's afterall he does this day in day out good video IVAN thank's.
Nice work Ivan. As always. 👍👍
Been there with my dads jeep, they definitely do not like aftermarket! Great job Ivan.
Great job explaining the 02 sensor testing! Awesome critical thinking throughout the diag! I can’t wait to see the next video Ivan!!!!
I love your enthusiasm Robert 😁👍
Great stuff. Not only do you need to have the right diagnostic equipment...but you need to be able to interpret the data. Nice save.
Yes knowledge is more important than the tools 😁
Good troubleshooting. You shortened the list of suspect parts and wiring quickly. Having the knowledge of which aftermarket parts are incompatible really helps too. Thanks!
I love it when he says ' interesting'. It sounds it bit like, buckle up for some action!
People complain that the manufacturer uses the cheapest parts they can, and aftermarket is the way to go. That is true in a few cases, but I've seldom had a parts store replacement that worked as long as the OEM.
Well OEM want a guaranteed X years so the car is out of warranty!
Ivan,,i had a 96 Grand Cherokee with the 5.2 for 12 years as a winter vehicle when i lived on Long Island, i replaced BOTH sensors with the BOSCH wide band and never a check engine light in about 10 years or after i put them in, she is gone now but i never had an issue with them. I got lucky and got 2 for 70.00 bucks so that was about half price too
Good job Ivan,Yes Chrysler Jeeps,hate Bosch 02 sensors. They get a little picky even with OEM NTK sensors I had 3 bad ones right from Chrysler and had to change to Denso, my friend that works at a Jeep dealership told me to try Denso and I will never use anything else in my Jeep, I was told they react much quicker than the OEM NTK sensors which mean the active fuel management from the ECM is better. I picked up 4 MPG using them and they have been in for 3 years with no problems. It's just like iridium plugs, my 3.7l V6 will through a code for 1-3-5 cylinders misfiring with iridium plugs, but if I use a standard copper top Denso's no misfire and the idle is smooth as glass. I was told it was because in this engine the small pinpointed iridium contact area is too small for this style combustion area, it likes the shotgun effect better with standard copper top or V gap plugs.
The best part is the "known good". Installed before the original part fails (usually only if it is known to fail) and driven in wrost possible conditions (hot, stop and go) for a coupleof weeks. At that point throw the original in the glovebox as a known good spare...as a spare and for torubleshooting ellimination.
Good fix Ivan. Knowing a car line does not like certain parts is very helpful. Like you, I've thought about parts replacement and how it affects that system or the rest of the engine. OEM is the way to go. Seems to be more compatible.
bosch SUCK
Thanks I like OEM on my Honda Element and Denso who I believe makes it for Honda. Unfortunately when you go cheap it usually never works out.
Bosch sensors are certainly not cheap. They are also OEM for quite a lot of cars.
@@ferrumignis true I use them on my on my BMW. My son’s Honda Pilot doesn’t like them either.
Whats amazing is this guy must watch ur channel, lives close enough to bring it to u, but still has other shop look at it and fires parts cannon, when will people learn that u fix it right the first time, most times. another job well done, thanks for posting
Because most people are firstly cheap and secondly imbeciles. I've lived a long time and never have I run into such a high percentage of truly stupid people. It's like we're going through de-evolution. If you'll remember Darwin's famous sketch where the fish comes out of the ocean and eventually evolves into a man I think we're eventually, at the rate we're going, be heading back into the ocean.
Honestly, I don't know of too many vehicles that respond well to an aftermarket Bosch O2 sensor, even when the OEM is a Bosch part. Even the single wire sensors are problematic, working fine for about 5,000 miles before starting to give erratic readings.
Bosch parts, Bosch tools, Bosch appliances... Mediocrity in its finest form, trading on its brand name. If Bosch made an alarm clock, the alarm would go off at +/-15 minutes of the time you set it for, and the box would read "Engineered with the most exacting German tolernaces, more precise than the most refined Circadian Rhythm."
Why these manufacturers cannot make the correct part and sell the correct parts that actually function with the equipment they're selling them for is ridiculous thank you for the video
That is an excellent example of the challenges that are faced when tackling Chrysler electronic related issues. Aftermarket (non-OEM) sensors, modules, etc, are at best a gamble. I've had and worked on numerous vehicles, Jeeps, Chevys, Fords, and more, and none in my experience are nearly as "fussy" as my Jeep, in my opinion. I cringe when something goes wonky electrically (which luckily has been rare) and from the what I see the newer ones can be real twisters! One of the things I wish wasn't "a Jeep thing"! 😆 I just ordered DENSO Oxygen sensors for my 98 TJ just in case.
the Jeep models 1997-2001 had a problem with the screws the hold the ECM to the firewall. The screws short the ECM to ground. People replace all the sensors only to find the intermittent problem returns. Take out the screws and shorten them and your problem is fixed. This Jeep reminded me of this problem.
RockAuto can overnight both OEM sensors 🤟🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I had the same exact problem with Bosch O2 sensors on my 06 F150. Messed around with it for days until i finally returned them and bought the Motorcraft like I should have to begin with. By the way, i love your videos and I am right down the street from you near Lewisburg, PA
Thanks for your wisdom! God bless you
Funny. I bought a used VW Tiguan that immediately picked up a dead miss on cyl 3. Popped the hood and found a no name replacement coil on cyl 3. Swapped it with cyl 2 and the miss followed the no name coil. Went to VW and they sold me a Bosch that matched the others and that took care of it.
Great job, I miss driving stick.
Excellent video. When I started the video I thought we we going to have a Chinesium going to Unobtainium.
Great Video!
Upstream o2 is a New Part Never Ever Works nice find
They want you to buy THEIR part, so THEIR part is manufactured by any means they can to be the only one that can work in your car. I think this is especially true for electronic parts.
I mean this just sounds like a typical Jeep. "I fixed it but it's still broke."
I bought one of those Bosch O2 sensors and it looked nothing like the original for my jeep and it Didn’t fit much longer in length Took it back to Parts store
k-line bus... its reminds me of the 14k aol service, cool video
I put a brand new denso upstream sensor in my Maxima vq30 engine and the fuel trim was a bit whacky at times and I could feel hesitation, it heated up quicker than the bosch new sensor I replaced that with, but the bosch had double the oscillation rate of the denso in live data. OEM is Nissan stamped bosch - cars hey!
Thanks for another awesome video, I always thought bosch were supposed to be the best, I kind of thought they invented the 02 sensor so this was good info to learn I noticed the check engine light came on when you were test driving it, what was the cause of that??
I love automatics! In holland we almost only have stick shifts.
For local garage guys, this “aftermarket” funky new parts issue , is a “fairly” new issue . 4-5 yrs. ago if you got a “bad” aftermarket part was +/- every 30 parts, now it is way too frequent ! Dealer parts is the way to go , but , delivery from dealers usually next day , aftermarket stores come in 20 minutes ,people want their car back asap ! Very time consuming when more problems show up after “junk “ parts ! There is NO winner today !
Killer glass brother
Just goes to show Ya ! Numbers don’t lie , if you can understand them ! Good fix “again” Ivan !👍👍
OE on those generations were NTK/ NGK sensors
I buy NTK Sensors for my vehicles & never had a problem. It sucks trying to find what you want in these times at the parts stores, online is the way I go but you have to wait a few days unless you over night it.
The only thing Bosch makes that doesn’t suck is a vacuum cleaner!
Love this comment, thanks for the laugh, i needed it!!!!! (especially since my little side job is repairing vacuums, lol!!!)
Thanks!
Appreciate it 🙏
There’s new parts and good parts :)
Ive had good luck with NTK sensors on Jeeps.
I always want to know what has been done before I get into a diag , some customers don't want to tell you and it's like pulling teeth sometimes
nice job
Had a f150 5.4 today. Timing chains were done with aftermarket phasers a week ago. Problem got worse than before after running good for a week or so. It would run fine cold. The cam error was sitting at around zero. As soon as it got warm, bank 1 would retard to 50. Bank 2 would advance to 35-40 and go into open loop. On demand test koeo the actuators would light a bulb. Long story short the phasers were junk. Also had lean and misfire coldest. Found a rocker that had fell out. Ford parts ordered.
That particular set up is actually fairly cool for the Wrangler, I4 w/5 speed. Even though in that year the 4.0 I6 was the way to go, the 4 cyl really seems reasonable for those who are not towing or in need of a lot of power. Likely MPG is way better on them and 2.5 liters is a decent sized 4 banger.
NOW comes the part. It needs returned and a refund and I'd replace the downstream O2 as well just for good measure. When your experience tells you to use OEM sensors on certain makes of vehicles, you simply proved that just perfectly. We all could use an answer to why Bosch and the others sell parts that will not work yet don't get into trouble for that.
Lol. Jeep fan and owner of several here. The 4cyl is an underpowered turd in even a completely stock wrangler, let alone one with a lift, big tires, bumpers,winch, etc...That is why you rarely see a 4cyl wrangler that hasn't had the engine replaced at least once, or is currently in need of a new engine. And no, the milage is not any better than a 4.0 because the 4 cyl has to be pushed hard just to maintain speed...
@@bdd1469 took the words right out of my mouth ! 2 tire sizes up , just gives you the power of a 2 cylinder ! Just ask anybody with a Jeep ! LOL
Of aftermarket parts, it's always been my assumption that Bosch was a good brand. It definitely takes the institutional knowledge of a mechanic to know things like Jeep hates Bosch. I rarely can afford denso brands and have gotten lucky with aftermarket on my Toyota's but will definitely keep this in mind in the future.
I'm learning slowly watching you work. Often I think I'd gain the same if you did this in Chinese or Russian. You're so over my head often.
it IS a good brand in systems that use Bosch ECU's. Like in lots of European cars.
Just don't mix and match parts. Just use the right/OEM parts and they will work.
Rockauto has all name brands at discount prices. Granted o2s and maf sensors run 50 to 100 bucks but its still about half price of the parts store.
Remember Rolex watches: just because it says Bosch on the part, it does not mean it was made by Bosch.
@@Runco990 Bosch is often an OEM
If you can't afford to buy it twice then buy it right.
Looks like it hates them Bosch o2 sensors
These Jeeps I believe used a titania sensor and work different then an o2 sensor.The downstream is a 02 sensor.
I use Denso in my Mopars but I wonder if the Jeep was dumping fuel before changing the O2 sensor and polluted it..... Making it run even richer.... Resetting the adaptives may have prevented another destroyed sensor.
Nice work, but watching the video I think I saw the check engine light come on while you were driving, was that a new dtc unrelated to the ones it already had, or was it the oxygen sensor again. 20:28 of the video.
I saw that as well
Are you sure it wasn't the "shift" light? It is a manual transmission after all.
Yes. Been explained. It was shift light. Why would you need that though.
@@markperry4076 First, you replied to a post regarding Nizzinny seeing a "check engine" light by stating "I saw that as well." I was simply stating it was the "shift" light.
Second, why would you need a "shift" light? The only reason the shift light exists is to encourage a driver to shift at the point that would achieve maximum fuel economy during the drive cycle.
That looks like a check eng light, not a shift light.
My Ram didn't like NTK at all, it did like Denso better but loved those plus anti-foulers on the downstreams.
Nice one. So that Thinktool is your main workhorse scan tool. I'm loving the capability and speed. I'm in the market, would you by that same tool today? Or something else? Topdon seems to be basically the same unit. Any suggestions?
👍 your the best!
Sometimes it's the brand and I think it has to do with the style of sensor. Like with the Bosch it has slits in it where the other Denso one has holes in it, probably makes a difference too. It's funny how some brands work better with certain manufacturers. The F-150 I used to have had Bosch right from the factory.
Dont see a lot of Jeep Wrangler TJ's getting diagnosed.
Now I just have to remember NO BOSCH for my 2002 Wrangler 4.0L
Nice video Ivan !!...was messing around in my garage 6 months ago with my scope and my 2001 Corvette started smelling BAD...quickly got out the D10 and bank1 O2 stuck lean...quick diag confirmed it was bad O2...bought Delphi from Rock Auto no good...Bosch from NAPA no good...actually went back twice to NAPA with new replacement Bosch sensor and still no good...Denso from Auto Zone GOOD...some cars just don't like certain parts !!
No its just Denso sensors and alternators were off the charts, it's the highest quality.
Interesting fact: it's not D10... It's actually PRO... but looks like D10 🤣
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ok, Verus Pro D10…same one you use !!..was easier just to say D10 !!
4-cyc, stick JEEP?? HELL YEAH!
Did other components require replacement following the Bosch, upstream sensor replacement? The heavily gunked up sensor is a clue to why it failed... The downstream didn't require change = not crudded up!
You Are The Man
Look at the size of that fan shroud! Good ole' Jeep. That's what happens when the options are 4 cylinder or In-line 6 (Edit: My bad, 3.7L v6 didn't come up in the Jeeps until 2001-ish?)
Funny about Bosch sensors. Now days there are Bosch sensors all over FCA vehicles. This would have been pre-FCA take over I suppose. My 2014 FCA products are covered in Bosch sensors. I even have a Bosch CP4 fuel pump on my Ram.
I suspect the issue may be in the sensing circuits. Perhaps an impedance issue between one sensor brand and another?
Fan shroud is that big because the engine bay was designed for the fitment of the 6cyl 4.0... with 2 less cylinders the engine sits further away and the gap has to be made up somewhere.
Wait wait wait what did I miss, were the O2 sensors bad?
My 1990 Ford Taurus doesn't like Bosch O2 sensors. It does like Densos 👍 $30 mistake 🙄
If you look up O2 sensor on rockauto the Bosch has a ❤️, meaning most customers buy that. Must be a lot of people with emissions issues out there scratching their heads.
@CJRock Yes. A good real-world example of how the hive mind isn't the most intelligent.
So my tundra doesnt like bosch o2 either, i buy denso online. What brand does jeep use for oem?
Great videos, I love seeing all these Americans who like to keep their older motors running, I never thought that so many people would be willing to run 15-25 year old cars - great to see that so many are not buying in to this "Global Warming" Greenhouse / Climate change crap, keep those big 7 litre beasts running! Wonderful pieces of automotive history.
Great job. Bet you wish they were all that easy. Possible new muffler in the future?
They like to rust out the cat lol
Did I see the CEL on the test drive?
Oem=fix the problem right away and enjoy vehicle for ling time and less headache for mechenic.the moment diy troubleshoot as ivan said its down to the rabbit hole.
Ivan I install min Bosch OS sensor over the years and I never saw one do that on any vehicle are you sure it just wasn't a bad sensor to begin with enough with the OEM carp there just a rip off you do realize that Bosch, NTK, Walker, Delphi, Denso and many others are all made by only a few manufacturers supplier that specializes in O2 sensors manufacturing believe it or not both Bosch, NTK are major supplier for OEM however the ohm reading can very different from one to another even with the exact same brand, P.S. my guess is that the heating element is not drawing in outside air in to heating element chamber like it needs to in order to function properly with zirconium dioxide element.
"Not Bosch". Words to live by
You made look, the upstream sensor is narrow band sensor. Will the procedure for checking the wiring for a AFR (air fuel ratio sensor) be the same.
The sensor has 2 for the heater and 2 signal wires
No, AFR is very different.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics any tips???
@@bernardaflores1720 depends on manufacturer, but OEM scan data is key. Heater circuit is the same as the regular O2 sensors 👍
Hi Ivan , how did you get the picture icon on the Thinktoolpros, to get a picture of the data stream ? Mine doesn't have one :/
To compare Denso and Bosh, Bosch was the lowest in the class. This is not the old Bosch, it's China Bosch with lots of mistakes in production and very low quality.
But the main problem is when someone changed the sensor he didn't reset the fuel mixture memory, and the jeep made extreme pollution and it clogged the new sensor which was already low quality because its Bosch.
For experiment Pine should clean the sensor and then try it in the Jeep.
Also DiagnoseDan CZcams channel had one major find about Bosch sensors, often they will swap poles inside the sensors.
That was on one crank sensor, and it wasn't mentioned if it polarity was peculiar to that car.
With that o2 being that black it probably needs a set a plugs and an oil change.
yeah, every time I see slow response O2 sensor code, it turns out to be a bosch part.