Why does the 200 amp breaker kick off
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2017
- This one is about the 200 amp breaker in the panel and why it may kick off before the 20 amp breaker for the appliance does. This video is part of the heating and cooling series of training videos made to accompany my websites: www.graycoolingman.com and www.grayfurnaceman.com to pass on what I have learned in many years of service and repair. If you have suggestions or comments they are welcome.
If you are a homeowner looking to repair your own appliance, understand that the voltages can be lethal, the fuels are highly flammable and high pressures are used. Know your limits. - Jak na to + styl
Thanks Gray, excellent explanation..
thank's GFM for sharing knowledge is power love all your video's I always watch em over and over super explanation!!!
I agree with you 100% on this subject. I would also be curious how much load was on the main before he turned on the problem circuit. Thanks for the video.
I agree with you I enjoyed it. Also imagine if a dead short happened in a split bus panel on the upper bus.
Most of the breakers have two trip mechanisms, a thermal one and a magnetic one. The thermal trip is what handles the small overloads on a circuit and gives the breaker a delay in those instances. The magnetic trip is what trips the breaker in a dead short condition, it enables the breaker to trip before the delay of heating up. You can usually search for a "trip curve" for the breaker you are interested in and the manufacture will have a data sheet on it. As you described, the curves have a lot to do with price. There have also been some issues with counterfeit breakers from china that are missing the magnetic trip mechanisms.
You are correct. Notably half breakers will not have the magnetic option. I did a video on these breakers that shows their design. I will be doing one on a breaker that uses the magnetic option.
GFM
Not having the magnetic trip? ROFL! Can happen just with american breakers... Never heard about such thing with those we use in Europe. Also interesting to note, those american ones look similar to those we have stopped using like 30 years ago! :)
none4454 oooh wow, the enlightened European has spoken. let's all bow.
Not trying to offend anyone, just stating facts.
@@grayfurnaceman Huh I never knew that the half breakers didn't have the magnetic trip option, but it makes sense since they are so small. Good to know. I never liked those cheater breakers, but I didn't have a specific reason to dislike them until now. To me, it just seems like a bad idea to cram 2 breakers into 1 normally sized housing.
Thank you so much just saved us a bunch.
Perhaps he already had a substantial load on one leg/unbalanced load. That would also contribute to the 200amp kicking off?
take both apart and look at the thermal overload of them, also I had a 100 amp main outside of a warehouse once that would be fine until the sun hit the mainbreaker housing at 2pm everyday them boom, it would pop, because the breaker was rated for 40 degrees celcius. I built a little aluminum cover to shield the sun, cheaper than upgrading to 200 amp, and it worked fine.
Mine recently started going off anywhere between 2:00 to 6:00 p.m. never had a problem with it until this year the panel box is facing the sun directly I might have to cover it up somehow
i've had single pole breakers blow apart in a spectacular fashion when energizing a specific circuit, very scary. usually a dead short from the romex connector being insanely clamped down on the wire, tearing through all layers of insulation or a direct short from hot to neutral/gnd somewhere down the line. needless to say, i use a stick (anything nonmetallic) to take the place of my finger. i also stand to the side of the panel, not directly in front when energizing a problem circuit. good video.
A lot of amps going thru that one.
GFM
Spector NS5 RD I've seen them not trip on a dead short and burn wiring either at the breaker or at the first junction box where a splice is located. Not A fan of slimline breakers but sometimes in crowded pannelboards you might not have a choice short term. Long term solution for my house was to put in a larger panel board.
I've seen this as well.
So how do I determine which is bad? If my low amp is passing power and the main keeps tripping, (and I mean within the correct volts) I'm going to think it's the main. Also, what relation can an unbalanced load have? Thanks for the vids
David R neither one. You have an appliance or wiring shorted.
GFM
What is the name brand of this breaker? We have the exact one that's causing problems
Mind blown
Thanks for that insight. I once had a situation in which the main breaker would not reset until all the individual breakers were switched off, even though there was no fault condition with any individual circuit. It seemed that the small loads on individual circuits (refrigerator, clocks, a few lights, etc) wouldn't let the main reset to on. After all individual breakers were switched off, I was able to reset main and then bring the individual circuits back on. I was still in contact with the owners for a few months afterward and they had had no problem. Not exactly the same situation you describe in this video, but seems to be another example of the main breaker being more sensitive than the single circuits.
That could certainly be true.
GFM
I believe that you are correct to a point. He obviously had a direct short on the load he was switching. the reason why he was switching on his 20 amp breaker and he tripped his 200 amp main is simple. you are correct on the fact that he had the whole grid of power behind him yes. but as he was switching on his load, for a moment he was holding the breaker on the I'm position. and what I mean by that is for a few microseconds when one is switching a breaker on you are holding the breaker in the on position. and while you are holding it on you are drawing a tremendous amount of amperage. the breaker you are switching on is momentarily being held in the on position, the circuit draws and excess of over 200 amps and voila the main breaker opens. it's all because the 20 amp breaker couldn't trip fast enough because your hand was on it and the circuit drew a high current and tripped the main.
Mike Miller
Not necessarily true
I find it a viable explanation for what happened. I do not feel it's a quality of breaker issue. I could be wrong. but I feel I am correct. I would like to hear what an electrical engineer would say. or perhaps an engineer from last say Square D
Holding the breaker lever will not hold the circuit breaker closed. The mechanism inside the breaker bypasses the lever.
GFM
Cool. I am wrong. Lol
As long as they are not breakers made by FPE. Those don't trip at all! Even at 200 amps!
Yepper - FPE breakers do not trip as should. That is why the company is no more.
simple explanation but not correct. it has to do with trip curve. sometimes main breaker is actually malfunctioning and is too sensitive. make sure the breakers are rated for the panel. That way they are properly "coordinated".
cheers
Couldn't the 200 amp Breaker be going bad and cause the same thing?
It could. This video is about how breakers are made and the quality of the different parts, not part failure.
GFM
I suppose breakers are just like smartphones: higher price, better quality (usually....😁)
Uhh...no.
The reason the 20 amp breaker doesn't trip and the 200 amp breaker does, is because the knuckle head home owner/ renter goes into the box and resets the 20 amp breaker 10x before calling the service guy because they're too cheap or lazy.
THATS why the 20 amp breaker fails and the next automatic disconnect has to open the circuit.
25 years of experience.
You, sir, have no idea what you’re talking about. Please consult an experienced master or journeyman to fix your issue. As an apprentice, I bet you’re simply trying to draw more amps than the circuit is currently offering. P=IxE bruh
The "save money" mentality of you Americans is what has destroyed American manufacturing and your economy.
I always look at quality above price. Spend more, get a far better ROI.
I will take the American economy every time. We build the best equipment in the world. We also make products that do not cost a fortune and many times they are both the best and inexpensive.
GFM
I agree with you that when possible, you should spend more to get a safer product. However, it is not like the companies that make electrical panels and breakers for their panel offer a cheaply made breaker for $5 and the best breaker that they can possibly make for $30, they only offer the cheap ones for $5.
grayfurnaceman I’m an American as well but doesn’t it scare you that we have 22 trillion dollars in federal debt?
@@KaidudeHasanSarfaraz we're not 22 trillion in debt, and GOD EMPEROR TRUMP WILL SAVE US ALL!
@@scottsiewert8165 Let me check, you are correct. The national debt today is $34.5 trillion dollars. We are going downhill without brakes.