Why most climbers ONLY have AVERAGE Technique
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
- Repetitive practice and common technique drills are ACTUALLY an inefficient way to learn good skills! 🤯
In this video, we will go through the science of movement, and how variability in movement plays a big part in developing adaptability which in turn makes you a stronger and better climber.
So why do we need variation in practice, can’t we just break down movement into parts and practice these? There is a good reason why this approach only works on very novice athletes, and thats because of how we coordinate movement - movement is self-organised, our actions are coupled with our perceptions e.g. how far away a hold is and how we create momentum with our body to reach it.
So how do we train self-organisation better? 🤔
One answer is the Constraints-Led Approach (CLA) which is defined as, ‘motor skills acquisition is a non-linear approach based on the idea that every athlete is unique and develops their movement skills in a non-linear fashion throughout their lifespan.’
We will cover:
➡️ How CLA relates to climbing practice
➡️ The concepts of ‘constraints’ and ‘attractors’ and how you can use these to refine your technique
➡️ PLUS we will demonstrate 7 different concepts you can use to train your technique with this approach
The best thing about this approach to training movement and better technique is that it encourages exploration, creativity and individualism - which are all important to rock climbers!
Now go carve your own path in your climbing training journey! 👊
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Constraint: Keep shirt on to limit power
Increase constraint: swap outdoor brand shirt for Hollister or similar
My gym doesn't allow tops off. So I've never seen my true potential.
I'd probably flash the whole.gym otherwise. 😂
Josh: We need to ask ourselves whether the constraints are pointless
Me: Erases training plan including blindfolds, musical chairs, apnea and hot dogs
Time Stamps for Example of Contraints
Contraint 1: One handed/No Handed climbing 14:35
Contraint 2: Micro Rest 15:13
Contraint 3: Board Pauses 15:53
Contraint 4: One Touch 16:42
Contraint 5: One Foot Hold 21:43
Contraint 6: Doubles 22:12
Contraint 7: Eliminates/Add Ons 22:31
hero 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Chapters please!
First lattice video I've been excited about. As a coach it's so easy to see how strength training is over valued in current climbing. Learning movement is a fundamental aspect of climbing harder grades. Not memorizing it. Would love to see more content like this. @Udini or Udo Neumann talks a lot about this subject for those interested.
The recent video from Emil Abrahamsson with the Tomoa brothers was really interesting because he asked them how many one arm pull ups they can do and they said they don't know because they never practice that. They even thought probably none.
Wow, that is a LOT of very useful information! Love it how you guys combine theory and practice. This makes it so much easier to understand why we would do certain exercises. Thank you so much!
Like some others said, this is one of the best Lattice training video I've seen so far, especially as a coach. There is a LOT of info in here. I love the link that is made between theory and practice as well as constraints and technique. I hope to see more videos along these lines were the concepts are expanded on since there is so much to talk about here.
We appreciate the feedback! Definitely more on the way 😌
Well-produced video, very professional. I liked the opening story/theme a lot.
One big part of the solution IMO, that isnt mentioned, is mindfulness / paying attention to the nuances.
Kinaesthetic mindfulness - with beginners sometimes able to intuitively make the most of this if they're not overthinking it, and more experienced climbers maybe being able to draw on more areas of this awareness in their bodies relating with the environment
So true and thanks for the contribution! I recently heard Ashima Shiraishi say on a podcast how walking meditation likely had a positive impact on her climbing which I thought was a really cool take. Learning to be present and mindful translates so well to our movement.
Great video! I talked about a similar topic a while ago but you guys took it waay further. Really loved the silent feet drill objections and constraint alternatives!
I really liked this video, well done. Something ive been playing with in my mind is: "How much time should you devote to working weaknesses by constraint?" I feel you see two veins of advice in this. 1. The gold is where you are not looking, the obvious flaws. 2. Lean into your strengths because it will progress you faster. Just curious what peoples thoughts are on this.
I'd rethink think is two ways. The first, Is your goal to be the best all-round climber, or to climb the highest grade possible? If the latter, your usually better devoting time to your strengths, and focussing on your style.
The second is the gap between strength and weaknesses. If there's a little gap, normally driving forward your strengths is better. If there's a massive gulf, then you normally get more bang for your buck working on strengths. Eg. If you are really strong, and lack some flexibility, but can normally make most moves or power through them, work on the strength more. If you are extremely strong, but really inflexible, and regularly have to do crazy moves to overcome high feet or wide stances, then you'll gain loads from working on that weakness.
It's not black or white.
Very interesting, I really enjoy this kind of informative videos. I would be very interested in videos that are more specific on those "overly strong climbers", what are their typical attractors and possible drills to solve them. Nice work!
What a great way to put it into words! It’s hard to describe the nuances of this sport sometimes.
This is a GREAT video on the topic. Down the road, I’d love to hear about the psychological/culture side of this training paradigm. From my perspective, newish climbers love being strong, and get a lot of positive feedback from their peers for being strong. It’s a totally easy metric for improvement. Not once in my 26 years of climbing has someone said, “Dude! You were SO efficient!”
But you've probably heard people calling a move 'smart' or 'I haven't seen anyone doing it like this'
which basically implies you were efficient or they're curious if it is more efficient. People can't know if it's efficient but they can see that you were struggling so they compliment you on being strong because you visibly pushed through.
Dang this is an insane synthesis of very useful info, thank you!!
very insightful episode! thanks guys!
Best lattice video so far 👏 Great work.
Very insightful, thank you!
Great explanation - thanks for the epic effort that went into making this 👏👏
Hi, first off, great video! Especially liked how information from the psychology of perception was carried out.
With my familiarity with the idea of affordances, just wanted to point out it is a self-perception concept, rather than something a coach or a route-setter "can afford" to their athlete. In that manner, I would think that it is an important role of the coach to acknowledge the athlete's self-directedness (or self-organization as you were putting it) in solving problems, rather than externally directing them. That being said, of course, a coach's role is to light the blind spots of their athletes.
Regardless of my picky comment, really good one, managing to shed light sensibly on climbing technique as viewed by motor planning and skill acquisition standpoint. That's where many climbers could improve a lot (me included).
I love this guy! Tonight i will put this video for sleep, What a voice!
Very informative thanks. Interesting overlaps with design and engineering terminology
As a coach I totally loved and geeked out about the theoretical concepts merging with the practical exercises. Thank you for sharing ❤
Glad you enjoyed 😁 !
Very cool. Interesting to see the language of dynamic mechanics migrating into coaching movement ("attractors").
I'd really enjoy hearing in future what you guys make of the decision theories of Kahneman and Tversky in climbing (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow). Alot of what you dwscribe here seems to be trying to engage System 2 to reprogram System 1.
I'd also love to hear more about some of the significant differences in approach to climbing training between expert and intermediate needs.
Enjoyably informed and growth affording piece you lot made!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed 😌
great video, very informative and interesting. thank you.
Glad we could help! 😌
I train here at the Hive Vancouver, B..c and am an intermediate V2-v4 boulder 10+ 11 top and lead climber for 4.5 yrs and i found intentional repetition technique in my routine snapped me out from plateauing and improved my momentum 😎 👏 my coach teaches the silent foot technique and blind fold climbing!
Bold of you to assume I could cut loose and not immediately fall on my face. The others tips exercises are nice though
Nice one!
I’ll try these out
Hope your finger will recover quickly for the outside season, ! Great video as always !
Thanks! I dropped a weight on it 🤦 but its healed quickly.
The conversation around minute 19 was interesting, because strength and conditioning is a huge part of all professional atheletes' training programmes. The technique shown during this point is not ideal for athletic movement, as there is too much focus on pausing and isolation. The very thing you're talking about (that training patterns that are very controlled and slow can lead to poor performance) is very well understood in strength and conditioning, which is why there should always be a focus on explosivity and elasticity.
Love this one. It's also really hard on me to determine.. is it the strength that's holding me back (esp. on crimpy holds) or is it actually the body position that would only work with more strength, but there might be a better position that required less strength.
Hi! If you search Lattice Training Free Assessments you'll find our free assessments which can help you determine what's holding you back. You can also try the remote assessment for a complete measurement of your climbing performance. This will show you how you compare strength-wise to other climbers at your grade, and you'll be able to determine if it's strength or technique you should work on.
🗽 Yes, my power is limiting my climbing skills... 😎
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I mostly do sport climbing. When I'm in the flow and not thinking about it, I think I tend to overgrip and not stay as close to the wall as I should be. What would be drills/constraints I could practice to get better at this?
Can you all link some of the research/ readings you used in making this video?
Amazing! This idea is actually very similar to Reinforcement training in AI.
Could you guys go into an explanation of the ecological dynamics approach now? I see so much bad advice online because people don't understand it, or are still stuck on schema theory.
If you know about Greg souders he explains it will through jiu-jitsu. Rob Grey also has a great CZcams channel.
@@martinflood8595 I started BJJ over a year ago now and it made me think about skill learning in a new way. I started climbing with no instructions and was self taught. In BJJ everything is taught and drilled from day 1. Two completely different approaches. Though I am always looking for concepts and rules in BJJ over step-by-step instructions. Also Rob Grey is amazing. I stumbled on his podcast years ago at Uni and its a gold mine for skill learning science. I did not know he had a CZcams channel!!! Thanks for the info!
Love the video
Fascinating
Constraints based learning is used across sports, but i do find that it add so much extra difficulty to the coaching task. Figuring out the "right" set of constraints that are effective and dont lead to bad practise is quite challenging and requires a much deeper understanding of the sport.
I do think its a nessecary skill, and obviously everyone would benefit if all coaches suddenly got deeper understanding of their respective sports.
However i do think there's a middle ground, particularly for beginner coaches, where a glossary\dictionary of observed scenarios\issues has a list of potential constraints that could help.
Then the coaching task is reduced from "develop a constraint to fix X problem" to "identify the problem\scenario, then choose which constraint(s) to implement"
Your video serves as a good reference for some constraints and says how they could be effective, which is great! Other sports and coach education programs don't do this particularly well.
Thanks! We appreciate the feedback 🥰
Maybe even branching out in unrelated movement based activities might make sense, e.g. ballroom dancing or martial arts. Yoga already seems to be popular in the climbing community after all, but it seems more for the stretching and flexibility aspect, not so much about learning new ways to move your body around at will.
It does! I do some slacklining and juggling with a hackey sack... It surely improves my coordination ability, foot health and balance.
"Just climb a lot" is still the best advice I know though. For any beginner.
the thing is, climbing a lot is already implementing the approach advocated in this video so long as you climb a lot of different boulders, and you climb really close to your limit so your constantly forced to find solutions.
Some boulders will force you to be dynamic, some will force you to let go of the wall and replace your feet precisely, some will force you to use momentum or stay static.
@@solverapproved Yeah.
I tend to disagree. When you start to play chess or othello, or badminton, or whatever sport you play you need to learn the rules of the game. How do I finish the boulder? How do I start? What holds are mine. Then you start to learn a few don't's (here they are positively phrased: straight arms, use your feet, stand on toes instead of the inner sole while in a game like Othello it would be: "don't put your piece in the square next to the corner").
Moving on you start to notice that you lack different specific skills, like precision in placing your feet and a few new don'ts, like not having them at chest height. So you tend to foot swap drills, silent feet* and you start putting pressure to your toes in overhangs, trying to find the balance points for using your hands less on slabs.
And as time goes you figure out that you can/have to use your heels, move diagonaly, flag. All those different techniques that we slowly adopt as climbers. And you even learn that the rules you learnt in the beginning, och straight arms and using your feet are not at all always the best (this happends in games like chess and othello as well, suddenly that square next to the corner might be really good, even early on, in open play).
All those steps can be figured out alone, in your cellar, or home gym, by just climbing. But they will be faster if you start to analyze your own climbing, looking at others, copying, and they will be significantly faster if you have a few friends that are slightly better than you, who have gone through just enough of the steps to remember what how it feels and see what you lack right now. Of course, if you have access a skilled coach this process should be even faster.
While that being said: I do agree about climbing alot being pivotal. I just don't agree to the sentence "just climb alot" without further guidance being the best advice for getting better at climbing. And I guess this film was much more aimed at already adapt climbers wanting to further improve. More than really fresh beginners :)
@@mattiasgonczi climb and think alot (terms and conditions apply)
Whelp, first time climber broke ankle in gym....let's get a more useful catch phrase.
4:02 A wild Will Bosi appears
too much power is a fallacy
Very interesting.
I find it fascinating to understand what makes someone the best at something. Sure, there are genetic advantages and disadvantages that make it easier or harder, but how can there be so many good climbers with different body types and climbing styles if gentics is the dominant factor?
There is always a way to make it work. Just have to keep solving the puzzle every step of the way. Every stage of a climbers life is different. You cant climb v7 the same way you climbed v5. There is always a new puzzle to solve or maybe an older puzzle that wasnt solved to perfection. How can you make that 3 out of 5 stars a 5 out of 5. This is a good video to make you question what has been working and what hasn't.
i get eliminating holds with certain goals, but with add ons, what do you mean "add on one climb each time?" what would add ons look like on the wall?
You start with 3 holds (i.e. one move). When you have mastered the move you add another hold (can be anywhere on the wall). As you link the moves you gradually build the climb, by adding one more each time. It is often done with a partner as you take turns 'adding' the next hold, until you build a full climb.
The answer to the title lies in the title. By definition the majority of people are average.
Because that's the definition of "average"?
3 body problem in biomechanics T_T
alternate universe Thom york be like
Sometimes I feel like this channel releases a video in response to Hooper's Beta, even though research/filming/editing time would suggest it was made prior to the HB vid release. This almost feels like it's speaking to the strength vs technique video they just did.
I've actually still not seen this! But I'll watch now that you mention it. This particular video took me loads of time to put together (research, reading, scripting etc) so it was being made many weeks in advance.
ultra instinct
Cuz otherwise it wouldn't be average?
Wish you used some female climbers as examples too, maybe next time? ❤
Why does it matter if there are males or females?
You feel personally attacked or..?
Jen is a female, isn't she?
I dont think it is possible to be "too strong" for climbing. Yes the strongest climbers will prefer the brute force/static solutions .... when it works! and thats the part you dont mention that makes all the difference.
If it works, why force them to find another solution? you said it yourself, even at the elite level, different athletes find different solutions.
And when it doesnt work? great, thats basically like a drill now, they HAVE to find a solution that works, which will use an element other than strength thus making them learn that new element.
You should tell strong athletes to try hard at the boulders they always fail or arent their style, their strength will always be an advantage anyway.
Dynamical systems terms, misapplied to sound cool and add confusion. Also, don't use drills, but use these drills! Not a good video.
i made it about 6 mins in b4 i stopped seeing the point in this video
Answer: because that’s what “average” means, lmao
That sure is a lot of talking.
Funny that you use Euro coins
Noice
What a load of pseudoscientific blabbering, complete waste of time