How Do Kibbutzim Work? The Socialist Communes That Shaped Israel
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2024
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On October 7, 2023, #Hamas penetrated Israeli territory in a particularly swift and stealthy manner, in what has been considered one of the biggest security breaches in the country's history. Its main target: the traditional "kibbutzim".
The "kibbutz" is a traditional Jewish agricultural commune that has championed socialism and Zionism. However, its pivotal role in the creation and defense of the borders of the State of #Israel made it one of Hamas' main targets.
What really is a "kibbutz"? How have the citizens of the "kibbutzim", the kibbutzniks, reacted to the massacre? How can the attack on these communes affect the #Netanyahu government?
You need to mention that the kibbutzim are the most left-wing places in the State of Israel, especially those that were hit on October 7, Hamas murdered many people there who spent their days driving the children of the Gaza Strip to receive treatment in hospitals in Israel, such as Vivian Silver 😢
You mean those people partying and laughing and taking drugs on occupied territory were left wing?
Left wing only for Israeli citizens interests
Left wing for the benefit of Israeli citizens only
If you live in Israel as an Israeli you do not care about Gazans.
Bullshit
You had it wrong. Those kibutzims on Gaza israel border were built to work with the palastinians for peace, as they had good relation with the palastinians counter part on the other side of the border before 2007.
They were left wing people... this video is misleading.
💯
This vid should be mass reported as misinformation like the covid deniers and flat earthers.
On the one hand, it's nice to see another video about Israel. On the other hand, it's all over the place. Basically a hodge-podge of unrelated facts, some correct and some less, with no clear point. That's unfortunate, because there is a lot to say about the kibbutz economic model, both in the past and today. Even today it's communist internally, with very strict acceptance criteria for membership. Incredibly, Israel was even able to make communism work, in a very limited way - but the kibbutz fundamentals are eroding for many reasons not listed in the video, not just commercial ones.
They are free to leave. In communism, you are very much NOT free to leave. Labor is one of the means of production that gets seized.
Communism does not mean "we live in communes" no matter what this poor translation of their Spanish channel says.
After the six days war in 67 war the kibbutzim turned left not only in economic view but also in becoming strong supporters of the establishment of a palestinian state and dismantling any israeli presence in the "occupied territories" and so were happy of the Israeli disengagement from gaza.
Hamas wanted to make sure that there would only be bloodshed forever by attacking those who were always willing to apologise and appease them .
This is what we have to deal with, god help us
I had wondered why the western supporters of communism had no thoughts about communes being specifically targeted for annihilation.
As if Hamas and Likud are faschy right-wingers, who gladly kill left-wing aid workers on both sides, right? Maybe this is not a conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, but between left and right. Yitzak Rabin could tell you that, if he wasn't murdered by a right-winger for successful in peace.
Because it's not about ideology. It's about virtue signalling.
Because this is not communism.
They are free to leave the Kibbutz at any point. Communists don't want SOCIALISM they want communism, where the means of production (labor included, so, people) are seized and cannot leave.
Because they have no knowledge about what happened and they learned history from Tictok Videos 😅
The boarder kibbutz were hard left-wing (The one that was heavily attacked didn't even have weapons/soldiers/security). They were built with the intention to work with palestinians. Well, No good deed goes unpunished. I hope they learned their lesson !
Leftist never learn. In the report itself they are blaming the Israeli Govt for not giving them adequate protection.
You give the attackers too much credit. They attacked the Kibbutz (singular) / kibbutzim (plural) because they could.
The kibbutzes role in defence is all true but about 50 years outdated.
In the past 30 years or so they've been the hard core of the left. They are (were?) deeply committed to coexistence, the peace process and all of the rest of left stuff.
As such, they actively tried to practice it via things such as hiring workers from Gaza, collaborating on art projects with Gazans, etc. (Also drives to Israeli hospitals, kite festivals but that's less relevant).
Many of the workers and Co-artists were Hamas agents feeding intelligence prior the attack and live information during the attack.
So they proved to be a softer target compared to other towns that were also closest to the Gaza border.
Hippies are not communist. Communist doesnt mean "engages in communes"
They are Left wing Socialists
Ofcourse they are that's why Netanyahu is prepared to Sacrifice the Hostages........not his Vote Base
These communes and their dissolving have always fascinated me. They are like little Spartas scattered in the desert.
😮
You need a homogeneous population for that
Some failed austrian painter tried to do that once...I guess now we know where he got the idea.
20 percent of Israeli citizens are Arabs, they just live in the north, not in the deserts where the kibutzes are
National socialism, socialism is feesable if everyone is the same people.
These communes are needed as Israel is really expensive place to live and visit
When I was two/three I lived in Kibbutz Mishmar HaNegev. All are equal, but some are more equal than others.
I lived in Kibbutz Bet-Alfa until I was 25. Great place to grow up/raise children. Boring place for anyone with a lot of ambition. I do wish USians would learn that there are different ways to stress syllables in words other than always the last one.
Small piece of context: the early zionists, pre-WWI, moved to Ottoman Palestine, not "Palestinian land".
Palestinian land, always has been always will be!
What’s the difference?
Yes, like Europeans moved to New World, which wasn't Americas... like wtf buddy
@@JohnH1 My ancestors were from ancient Israel, but were forcibly removed by the Persian Epire and moved to the Caucasus. From then since the 1980's we always tried to go back, and maintained our culture. Eventualy most of my family moved to Israel. They're Israeli, and it's their land also (doesn't mean Palestanians don't have claim, but it's not only theirs).
Serbia had access to 3 seas before the Ottoman invasion.
What should we do? 🗿
Cheers from Kibbutz givat Brenner ❤
Ur next😊
@@JG-MV
@@JG-MVBro is saying the most genocidal stuff yet cries about Israeli genociding Palestinians (which is bullshit)😂
Cheers back, stay safe!
@@torbjornlindholm4098 As they say.. common sense ain't common
Are you working on videos about libertarian and anarchist communes; How about private cities too?
Flagged this as misinformation.
Just todae I was thinking of the best idea of Socialism;the Kibbutz.
Im swedish. I lived in a kibbutz for 5months in 99.
How was that experience for you?
@matthewpenea7532 I love it. Learned english and hebrew. Lots of booze and partys AND hard work. Plus S.E.X! I loved it and would recommend it!
If anyone studied Economics, they will know Equality and Equitability are different concepts.
Equal distribution of income would mean every individual in the society will get the same share in the country's national income. Regardless of the occupation. It implies a situation in which a doctor gets the same salary as a clerk in the hospital. No society would ever seek a situation like this.
Equitable distribution of income on the other hand implies social equality. It means differences in income are allowed but only with certain limits. These differences are to be such that these are socially warranted and are proportionate to the difference in qualifications and skills of every individuals in the society. It is then Social justice is combined with economic growth that growth is converted into development
Yes, I was.
Chomsky and Socialism... no surprises there.
Way Too Many Imprecisions.
More videos like this please! It's fun to learn about these kind of things that are mostly not covered by mainstream media, it's something educational rather than rage inducing and I love it!
8:30
Szymon Perski - he was polish jew that just made his surname sound more Jewish
and?
@@ARE_YOU_SICK_OF_YT_CENSORSHIP it isn't good to use made up names
If his ancestors weren't exiled by the Romans two thousand years ago, he wouldn't have had the need to change back to Hebrew
I can already tell the comments section on this one is going to be a laugh a minute.
REALLY???
This video misrepresent the Kibutz and it's role in military, politics and economy.
In military, their conscription rate in not much higher then the more secular cities and the small difference comes from the fact that cities are more diverse and include some ultra-orthodox and modern orthodox. (Ultra-orthodox aren't drafted as are modern orthodox women). The dominant power in the IDF is the national-religious (many of those are settlers)
Politically, the Kibbutz is the most left wing sector in Israel and the fringe Meretz party enjoys a 30% support there versus 2.5% in the rest of the country.
Economically, many got and get large subsidies and previously had loans in billions of dollars forgiven. Currently many live on heavily subsidized agriculture protected by high tariffs, industry whose investment was done by the state or real estate. The kibbutz movement got hundreds of millions from the deal on the land of just one former kibbutz near Tel-Aviv which was used to build a hundred high rise apartment buildings with a cosmic price per unit (in the ballpark of 700k per unit).
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Living in a commune is not socialism
Going to respond to this first objectively and then in a partisan manner.
1. The non-religious Kibbutzim like those attacked in the south vote for left-wing parties that believe in a two-state solution regardless of what the Palestinians do or say. Kibbutzniks are disproportionate members of the most technical aspects of the IDF as well as its higher echalon officers and those running the intelligence services. They also disproportionately are members of the media.
2. Because of this things are a lot more complicated in Israel than you would understand from this. The intelligence services have a culture of ignoring calls by Palestinians to destroy Israel. Anyone pointing this out threatens their entire mode of thinking which is that Israel needs American support and a two-state solution to survive. Anyone disagreeing with this is therefore a political threat if not a traitor. What this meant was anyone pointing out that Hamas was preparing to attack Israel rather than moderating was deemed a member of the opposition and shut out. We're over, many members of the officer Corps and intelligence services were openly backing the movement to overthrow the government over the pretext of judicial reforms. Rather than protecting Israel they wanted to overthrow the Prime Minister. This meant they dropped the ball. But because they control the media and the rest of the world listens to them, Netanyahu is the one who is being blamed. There is no accountability in Israel right now because there's no investigation. The left wants to hold elections before there's an investigation. They want to make sure that what happened in 1973, where the left was rightly blamed will never happen again.
👏👏👏👏👏
the partisan response was censored by YT or was it not?
also ignore war time Britain
Wow, I've never thought of it that way. Thank you. super interesting
Took the IDF six hours to deploy its forces after the attack. There are some parallels with the 911 attacks here. The question is who does it profit?
Stop those stupid annoying camera click sound bytes.
❤
Am Isreal chai!🇮🇱
Israeli nationalist song
Equal for all if you're a similar ethnicity and religion
20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs, and a third of us are Atheist. Stop lieing about basic facts
Creation of a Jewish state in Israel
This is the least objective video I've ever seen on this channel, hoooly zionism
You need to mention that the word “Palestine “
Comes from the Roman times as they didn’t wanted to give the native Jews a name that represents Jews
So he called them Palestinians.
Even on coins from that point
It said “א״י” = state of Israel !
yeah, that's not why. It comes from the Greek word for the region, much of Israel, including major cities like Ashkelon, was never in Jewish hands until last century.
@@RubyDoobieScoo babe . It’s always been our land
🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
This is probably the only thing I’ve watched on anything Israel/Palestine related that felt completely unpolitical. Well done for being so dispassionate and just educating us without an agenda on either side 👍🏻
"Socialism" (only) works in small familiar groups and capitalism is the best system for humanity as a whole to prosper.
Capitalism represents the evolutionary struggle for survival against natural forces, while the idea of socialism represents the safe haven of family units.
Forcing socialism onto humanity will destroy it, because it kills individualism and honest head on competition to come up with the best solutions, and bringing capitalism into family units will dissolve them and thus societal cohesion as a whole.
It worked so well in Israel because of the idealism of kibbutz members, who only gave it up when the system became economically unfeasible.
Wild idea, what if instead we applied socialism at a local level and capitalism at a global level? You know where each of them seem to work the best and provide the most benefits.
Such a system has been widely used in scandinavia and it seems to work wonders for them, they have some of the highest living standards, happiness and education.
Oh wait...I didn't read your comment throughly, it seems that we ultimately are in agreement.
Scandinavia is doing fine with it
@@JG-MV Scandinavia is totally capitalist, the Prime Minister of Denmark even said that foreigners should stop saying that his country is socialist, because they are wrong
@@JG-MV Scandinavia is Capitalist. They have many Democratic Socialist principles that have been enacted into law, but this is still within a Capitalist system. It is simply Capitalism with greater state intervention for regulatory purposes and to protect basic amenities and human rights. Have a quick read on Wikipedia what Socialism actually is.
They were unique, socialist pods within a larger capitalist system.
Kinda like a family, but much bigger.
58 minutes ago
Everything belongs to everyone. But the Palestinians
Kibbutizm
😂 in the palestinian « imagination » they are the ones that come for their homes, you neglected to say this my friend..
Why do I feel that this isn't the whole truth? The shock of being targeted by Hamas was so great (they thought they had earned some respect) that the Netanyahu's government being blamed for the lack of intelligence about the attack is more important than the shaming proof that their idea about how to deal with Palestinians was so wrong? Nope, here they are stepping around the fact that Hamas has to be crushed, they are being "of the left" in that they feel that the "far right" has no business leading Israel in this war. By the way, they also have no idea about "Judicial Dictatorships"? What would happen if 8 of the Judges went rogue and started shaping Israel at the beck and call of the Elite Left? Who has the power to bring them down? NOBODY, that is why it is essential that the Knesset be the lawmakers.
My guy, your English vocabulary and overall grammar skills are on the same levels as smotritch’s…
I’m Seriously getting a brain aneurysm from just trying to understand what you wrote.
The only way to deal with Palestinians is to stop occupying them. Which special human rights the colonists have that natives don't?
@@asadullah008 like Gaza? Israel was occupying Gaza?!
We all learned that when Arabs say "Israel occupies Palestine" what they actually mean is that Israel needs to stop existing.
Is this channel AI generated now? It used to be one of my favorite.
The Kibbutz were also isolated and segregated communities to keep others out. Sounds more like building a fort in hostile land to colonise it
How can someone colonize their indigenous land?
@xStickStockx indigenous land ?! 😂😂😂 claiming a land after leaving it for more than 2000 year , and killing the people that live there to "take it back" and the majority of those "indigenous" people are not ethically Hebrew
@@criat1 Jewish immigrants hadn't killed anyone until they were attacked
and where are you from?
@@xStickStockxNatanyahu the polish guy is indiginous?? Loll
"The creation of a Jewish state in palestine". Could you have a more a-historical take on history?
Let me re-write that for you: "The resurrection of a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland."
The correct word is actually "settler colonialism", same what happened in Australia and Americas.
Ancestoral homeland of British id Germany if we go back 2000 years, and the Russians have a stake in Scandinavia. Of course this won't hold, so stop putting forward illogical claims.
Free Palestine !!! 🍉🍉🍉
I can't tell if it's intentionally ignored or honestly misunderstood. But am important factor involved in the Israeli "expansion" is that these groups pool their money together and purchase real estate on the open market in order to create home communities for themselves.
Then they get accused of being "settlers" or "occupiers"
@@calebbearup4282 honestly it's because the Arabs of the time were only interested in taking things by force. When they realized they couldn't do that, they tried to play up the history card, not realizing that millions of Jews have been displaced from their lands centuries before.
@@asadullah008 Israel was colonised by the Roman empire about 2,000 years ago and the Jewish people sent into exile, and then Arab/Muslim empire that took over aboit 650 was a benefactor of Roman colonisation, the Jewish people returning to Israel is actually de- colonisation.
Colonialism and apartheid is very similar across the board
Any empire is colonialist, including the Muslim Ottomans that encouraged Muslims to immigrate after the Napoleonic war, to strengthen their hold in the land of Israel.
errrrm better in theory than practice im sure , oy vey
Occupation and murder of the innocents should be stopped. The world needs to wake up. Those who are cruel, they and their system should not be praised whatsoever. Double standards!
Yeah, that hamas attack was appalling. Ironically, the people they attacked were most likely to be pro Palistine.
Yeah, Hamas and their supporters are clearly showing double standards. They asked for the war, but as they are loosing they are screaming for help and blaming Hebrew state.
Jews are indigenous people of this lend
Israel is the only democracy in the region.
"paramilitary self-defense organization" is a funny way to say religious extremist insurgents (Haganah bombed bridges, railways, and ships).
Israeli back then were not religious , those who are religious do not fight in the IDF , even today . Israel were very secular left leaning country almost socialist/ communist .
I liked Grant Gallacher MUCH better. Does Josh work for Israel 🇮🇱?
Why do you think that way?
@monkeydank7842 I've just noticed this channel has started to spew forth uncritically Pro Israel content. Quality has declined big time. I miss Grant. 😢 Did they sack him? Who owns this channel, Simon Whistler? Are Simon and Josh ✡️?
@@martanoconghaile It’s not wrong to be for the only democracy in the region.
@@monkeydank7842 it isn't really. It's about 50:50 Jew Arab, but most of the Arabs can't vote. That's why Israel is genociding them. Lebanon 🇱🇧 is more of a democracy
You know, if Palestine exists instead of Israel, things would be much difference in a positive way.
Was this before or after the Nakba?
Which Nakba, the Arab one in Palestine, or the Jewish one in Arab/Muslim countries?
@@liorajacob8094the only nakba against Jewish people happened in Western Europe by white fellow people
@@liorajacob8094the only Nakba against Js. people happened in Western Europe by fellow whites in the 1940s…
@@liorajacob8094the only nakba against Jews happened in the 1940s by white ppl
for the Jewish one it happened in 1940s by fellow whites
I bet Karl Marx would be proud
Why would I participate in a kibbutz, so ro be influenced and support a side of the conflict. When they (Palestinians and Israelis) stop teaching their children to hate, I will consider Isreal a destination.
@JuanAlcantara-yv6sg
Israeli children (generally speaking) are not taught to hate. Many of the shows in Israel (Israeli Sesame Street is a good example) include Arab characters and teach children to love each other.
On the other hand watch Palestinian children’s shows. An example of this is the Young Pioneers (AKA “Palestinian Mickey Mouse”). In that show children are explicitly told with that Jews are evil and that mayterdom is a good thing.
It seems that you’re content about Israel is like when the IDF investigating their crimes 🤔
Israel is a democracy.
Golan heights is Syrian, occupied territory
GREAT PM Benjamin Netanyahu
Karl marx the jew
But still how come Palestinians are far more prosperous and advance than israel in terms of everthing including technology and scholars?
Jokes
Lol 😅😅
Now *that* was pure propaganda. You've never been to Israel, you've never been to Gaza, or the so called _"west bank,"_ but you know it all.
If you look up “Palestinian inventions” you’ll find 3 different things:
1. Foods that predate the concept of a “Palestinian”, considering there isn’t a single example of someone identifying as “Palestinian” before 1898.
2. Textiles which fall under the same issue.
3. Various bombs and rockets.
Compare that to Jews, who just in Nobel prizes alone, make up 25% of all winners in the hard sciences despite being less than 0.2% of the worlds’ population.
Free Palestine!!! 🍉🍉🍉
Zi0nist propaganda
The face of this channel 👎
Palestine is Israel, there's no other Palestine known in history
The irony "Everything belongs to anyone" yea yeah what about yo neighbours😅
they let palestinians work in kibbutz and they used as intel to know where more population are to do what happened in oct 7th
@@augustovalverdesp9705after driving them away from their lands in 1948? What a joke
@@asadullah008 They and all the other Arab countries around start a war against israel and lose. Things would be different if Muslims were not so warlike.
@@asadullah008 the Palestinians that worked in Israel wore mostly born half a century after this, they betrayed Israel simply because they were sharia-loving Islamists
Kibutzim weren't made on inhabited soil. That was part of the ideology back in the first half of the 20th century.
Yep they are using stolen land and settling in a little bit confy sooo they had to be reminded
Actually, the lad these communities were built on were legally purchased in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Furthermore, who did they steal the land from? Most of them were built out of nothing in the desert. Just cause your camel pooped there once doesn't make it your's. Lastly, Israel is the greatest example of decolonization in human history. Jews are the indigenous people to the land, there have been many colonizers over centuries (Arabs being the colonizers of the 7th century), but for 2,000 years Jews never gave up hope of the return to their homeland.
“Stolen”🤡
Consider us reminded. Now we're reminding them why that was a bad move.
Well now we reminded you guys not to remind us😂
Was it worth it???
So you’re promoting illegal settlements?
What an ignorance and total BS. Original Kibbutzin were LEGAL settlements, established on land bought from Arab landowners. But ignorance and hate has always been main weapon of antisemites.
Illegal according to what law?🤡