NBA stat inflation | Comparing today's players to the past

Sdílet
Vložit
  • čas přidán 21. 03. 2019
  • We constantly compare today's stats to the past, but these aren't fair comparisons. Rule changes and tactics have inflated or deflated stats in different eras. This video explores the history of those rule changes and how they have radically influenced NBA stats across different time periods, before presenting a handful of ways to adjust stats to today's norms.
    You can download the Hardwood Amino app and join the NBA community with 100k+ die-hards here:
    App Store: apple.co/2TZ2zGt
    Google Play: bit.ly/2urrQLr
    Follow Me: ElGee
    Support at Patreon: / thinkingbasketball
    Book: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Baske...
    Podcast: player.fm/series/thinking-bas... or at www.stitcher.com/podcast/ben-...
    Website: www.backpicks.com
    Twitter: @elgee35
    Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
    -----
    A Visual History of Spacing: www.backpicks.com/2017/11/02/t...
    TEAM REBOUNDING: Before 1969, the NBA counted misses that were whistled dead before a live-ball rebound ("team rebounds") in a team's rebounding total. For instance, during the 1962 season, players were credited with 61.7 rebounds per game (per team), but teams were credited with the 71.4 per game shown in the video. After 1969, these rebounds weren't counted in team totals and set aside as "team rebounds." More on historical rebounding here: forums.realgm.com/boards/view...
    Player art by @CrumpledJumper
    Music by Jordan Ciurcovich (Forest)
  • Sport

Komentáře • 1,1K

  • @ThinkingBasketball
    @ThinkingBasketball  Před 5 lety +250

    Thanks for the great feedback on this. Hoping to make more stats videos in the future so it's awesome to hear positive reactions! Thanks again to Hardwood Amino -- you can download the app here:
    App Store: apple.co/2TZ2zGt
    Google Play: bit.ly/2urrQLr
    Follow Me: ElGee

    • @eekobe88reganit36
      @eekobe88reganit36 Před 5 lety

      Im new subcriber!pls do a video about kobe

    • @cauezimmermann538
      @cauezimmermann538 Před 5 lety +2

      Congratulations on the content you put up. I bet it takes a lot of time to research and do the analysis. Very smart approach on the topic! Keep it up!

    • @philwilson609
      @philwilson609 Před 5 lety +3

      I appreciate the effort, but you missed the most important evolutionary change in the nature of the NBA even though it slapped you across the snout. You cite Doncic and Giannis as representing the concept of modern production, yet, astonishingly, you miss the fact that these two players are from Slovenia and Greece. There were no players from foreign nations in Wilt's day, and the huge explosion of basketball as an international industry, as opposed to a local pastime, is far more critical than the changes in strategies and rules. Players are flat out better due to the Darwinian cauldron of world wide competition. One should view the evolved conventions of dribbling as reflecting years of experimentation and creative innovation. It is piss poor to imagine that Cousy and Petit were restricted by rules - rather, they did not yet conceive of the array of possibilities that the game offered. The rules follow the themes of invention, not vice versa. BTW, Cousy often dribbled behind his back in the 50's and was not called for palming even though it is not possible to dribble behind ones back without getting a palm on the side of the ball.

    • @chadjackson4786
      @chadjackson4786 Před 5 lety +2

      Do one on if Reggie and Ray Allen shot 13 3's a game like harden

    • @imjerry4313
      @imjerry4313 Před 5 lety

      Dude you are awesome

  • @anotherdudeontheblock7061
    @anotherdudeontheblock7061 Před 5 lety +1201

    Everytime I watch these videos I feel my knowledge has inflated

    • @Coregame3
      @Coregame3 Před 5 lety +7

      inb4 this video blows up like an Iraqi mosque

    • @jlui21
      @jlui21 Před 5 lety +2

      -- so if you adjust for 2019's inflation rate, your knowledge in 1969 drops by about 14%?

    • @mcentepede
      @mcentepede Před 5 lety +4

      Elgin Baylor was probably way ahead of his times....Dunking on Bill Russell, crossover dribble, Eurostep.....he looks like a modern type player if you consider the technique he using

    • @pearlywhites3025
      @pearlywhites3025 Před 4 lety +8

      @Steve Jobs It's not supposed to be a perfect comparison, and he very clearly states in the video that much of the changes across eras are based on rule changes, and it's impossible to perfectly account for that. If you were going to compare stats across eras, how would you do it better?

  • @milto2269
    @milto2269 Před 5 lety +1265

    The quality of this video is unreal, I am sure you put an incredible effort in it. Keep this consistency and being the best nba channel would be a reality soon.

  • @movementman9777
    @movementman9777 Před 5 lety +1809

    So basically Wilt is an alien no matter what.

    • @blackmanwhitesuit
      @blackmanwhitesuit Před 5 lety +123

      As were Wayne Gretzky, Barry Bonds, Pele, and Jim Brown

    • @carmeloanthony3258
      @carmeloanthony3258 Před 5 lety +13

      Blackman Whitesuit as long as steroids where made at the time

    • @blackmanwhitesuit
      @blackmanwhitesuit Před 5 lety +79

      @@carmeloanthony3258 Steroid Era was still an era, but that pertains to Bonds. Gretzky is otherworldly in the world of hockey.

    • @carmeloanthony3258
      @carmeloanthony3258 Před 5 lety +7

      Blackman Whitesuit I was just speaking about Barry I don’t know much about hockey

    • @matthewdoolan2257
      @matthewdoolan2257 Před 5 lety +63

      @@blackmanwhitesuit Pele played against rice farmers, Messi easily the GOAT

  • @MrC77
    @MrC77 Před 5 lety +423

    Finally someone talks about the dribbling rule changes.

    • @libraalibaba
      @libraalibaba Před 4 lety +32

      Exactly people always try to make it seems as if they couldn't dribble. When in reality we've just been doing advanced double dribble and carry.

    • @NostalgicMem0ries
      @NostalgicMem0ries Před 4 lety +8

      @@libraalibaba not to mention wilts camping under rim without 5 in key, offensive and defensive rim interference, self passes from backboard after FT etc etc

    • @oh3905
      @oh3905 Před 4 lety +5

      memories there's was key violations, and that was banned before wilt wven got to college gtfo

    • @abstractdaddy1384
      @abstractdaddy1384 Před 2 lety +3

      Yeah seriously. If that's what's allowed by the rules, fine, i don't care, but don't try to tell me this street ball crap isn't being given a huge amount of leeway.

  • @totem91
    @totem91 Před 5 lety +447

    Adjusted for inflation, Dennis Rodman is the best rebounder of all times.
    Even when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, Dennis was grabbing boards among the brachiosaurs.

    • @DreamWorldSyd
      @DreamWorldSyd Před 5 lety +3

      Brachiosaurs don't have hands though...

    • @chrissullivan6572
      @chrissullivan6572 Před 5 lety +33

      @@DreamWorldSyd They used their mouth, duh.

    • @sabbywins
      @sabbywins Před 5 lety +85

      Still couldn't rebound that asteroid though.

    • @vipcyclone2531
      @vipcyclone2531 Před 5 lety +18

      @@sabbywins this comment killed then resurrected me

    • @marceldwayne8491
      @marceldwayne8491 Před 5 lety +4

      Nooooooooo...... Wilt & Russell control the narrative with best rebounder. Dennis only worry about defense & rebound. That's it. Wilt did wayyyyy more.

  • @movementman9777
    @movementman9777 Před 5 lety +697

    It’s impossible to fairly compare players between eras. But still we do it anyway because arguing is fun.

    • @zinedinhadzajlija6225
      @zinedinhadzajlija6225 Před 5 lety +48

      If there is anything that's gonna make me stop watching the NBA, it's the apsurd amount of arguing combined with the rather small amount of knowledge.

    • @Tethloach1
      @Tethloach1 Před 5 lety +8

      It is not impossible to make a fair approximation of how someone would compare in an era. Wilt would be similar to Shaq in the modern era 33-35 points per game and maybe 12 -15 rebounds a game. Scoring ability has to do with the players ability and how the game is played. All of the decisions they make on the court, how ell adjusted they are to play different styles or play in different eras.

    • @Tethloach1
      @Tethloach1 Před 5 lety +3

      Scoring a lot of points means you are very creative, and have versatility. passing the ball means you are very creative and versatile. A players play style means how they approach the game, Wilt is similar to shack a lot in approach and style. LeBron is similar to Magic but has more athletic ability than Magic.

    • @movementman9777
      @movementman9777 Před 5 lety +3

      but it’s an approximation though. there are a lot of smaller things that don’t get factored in. every variable matters

    • @Tethloach1
      @Tethloach1 Před 5 lety

      @@movementman9777 I agree every variable matters.

  • @GeordieHalma
    @GeordieHalma Před 5 lety +422

    You gotta adjust Wilt's 20,000 women figure for inflation to draw fair comparisons against the greats of other eras.

    • @vza7938
      @vza7938 Před 5 lety +16

      lol...legend on court and on bed

    • @michaelkrebs1311
      @michaelkrebs1311 Před 5 lety +13

      Looks like the Greek Freak is a freak on the court and in the sheets - Giannis

    • @MrDotaleavers
      @MrDotaleavers Před 5 lety +9

      @@vza7938 his belair home, had an orgy room. No other NBA players, acknowledge this except wilt.

    • @AWolf-gq2vu
      @AWolf-gq2vu Před 5 lety +1

      - BadYoshi - He’s too nice though. For better or worse.

    • @alik5972
      @alik5972 Před 5 lety +7

      If we adjust the increase of the number of thots that would make 25.000 women

  • @realnigga42069
    @realnigga42069 Před 5 lety +204

    Bro ur mad underrated

  • @mrslick58
    @mrslick58 Před 5 lety +628

    The fact that Wilt Chamberlain played 48.5 mpg at such a high pace is absolutely insane to me.

    • @mrslick58
      @mrslick58 Před 5 lety +84

      @jross2330 I do watch the games and there was basically no half court offense so Wilt Chamberlain who loved to race back on both offense and defense did a lot of running, plus the amount of jumping he did on rebounds and blocks.

    • @philwilson609
      @philwilson609 Před 5 lety +111

      I am 71 years old and saw lots of old school basketball. It was crude, plodding, slow and stodgy by today's standards. No one in the 50's and 60's put in the mileage that Steph or James Harden do. It is silly to believe that athletes used to be in better shape than they are now.

    • @mrslick58
      @mrslick58 Před 5 lety +40

      @@philwilson609 today on average their more athletic especially since there's a lot more players but wilt in my opinion is the greatest athlete in NBA history.

    • @capitanawesome44
      @capitanawesome44 Před 5 lety +14

      He played all those minutes and slept with all those women. I don’t see how the top athletes of today even w performance enhancers could do that today

    • @philwilson609
      @philwilson609 Před 5 lety +49

      @@mrslick58 For shear athletic gifts, no one had more than Wilt. He ran a 48 sec quarter in high school! I seriously doubt that Giannis or KD could ever touch that, but in terms of skill the two latter players are miles beyond Wilt who could not dribble or shoot. If Wilt had grown up today he might be as great as anyone. If you sent KD back to the 50's he'd score every time he touched the ball and ruin every game.

  • @SethKasso
    @SethKasso Před 5 lety +162

    This video was fantastic. When most people talk about stat conversions, they kinda just use it as a middle finger to the past. But the way you did it makes perfect sense and the ending was a great way to finish off the topic. A+ work on the average. Easily one of my favorite channels to watch.

  • @david.tousignant20
    @david.tousignant20 Před 5 lety +85

    Wilt Chamberlain once stated he would had dropped 70 PPG if he played in the 1980s. He talked about it in 1989 on Roy Firestone's show... And many of his peers agreed on that point. Players saw the game changing and they didn't like changes.
    In 2019, old heads are criticising modern stars of the game. Again. By saying how basketball was at his peak during their own days.
    But, they forgot how past athletes criticised them in the 1980s or 1990s.
    The game's always changing. Great players found a way to dominate. That's why there's great; they are adapting to anything. Cream always rise to the top!

    • @allanhouston6759
      @allanhouston6759 Před 4 lety +8

      Wilt overrated

    • @has3219
      @has3219 Před 3 lety

      Wilt played when there were restrictions on the number of black players on a team so none of his stats count

    • @liamm6208
      @liamm6208 Před 3 lety +1

      And by the logic the old heads use to rank players they think that Paul George is a better basketball player then Stephen Curry just because Paul George is elite on both ends of the court and can takeover a game at will and they act like Paul George is a top 5 player in the NBA and some even say he's better or more valuable than James Harden and Giannis Anteokunmpo.

    • @senpai1574
      @senpai1574 Před 2 lety

      @@allanhouston6759 nah

    • @kidtristan4073
      @kidtristan4073 Před rokem

      @@allanhouston6759 nah

  • @woltersworld
    @woltersworld Před 5 lety +85

    Well done. I have debated these things before and wondered about a statistical way to adjust for pace and changes in game. You did a really good job. And as you said, there is no perfect way to do it. but you did a really good job. thank you.

    • @libraalibaba
      @libraalibaba Před 3 lety

      I come back to this video every now and again when people try to sell me on just focusing on base numbers.

    • @Illinilifer98
      @Illinilifer98 Před 3 lety +1

      Glad to see one of my favorite professors/youtube personalities enjoys this type of content as well! ILL

  • @matheusbarreto7281
    @matheusbarreto7281 Před 2 lety +13

    Wilt's athletic capacity to play 48 minutes on such high pace is completelly underrated!

  • @amazaltarim
    @amazaltarim Před 5 lety +20

    This is the most fairest stat / era comparison I have ever seen anyone put forth. When comparing data of this nature in science, we have to "standardize" data sets, and you have done this to the best of your abilities. As you said, we can never truly compare eras but you have done an excellent job attempting to. Keep it up!

  • @jonathanking8800
    @jonathanking8800 Před 5 lety +271

    So a man the height and weight of Shaquille O'Neal never left the court, ran faster and jumped higher than Lebron James, and even when handicapping his numbers unnecessarily to adjust to the modern league which was in many ways shaped, by him, still had the best season ever had by a player.
    Wilt doesn't get enough respect.

    • @armandodelossantos736
      @armandodelossantos736 Před 5 lety +53

      He never mentioned competition tho.. Wilts era was still the weakest era for competition

    • @steffwes1312
      @steffwes1312 Před 5 lety +26

      Armando De Los Santos he played bill russell and Kareem at least 8 times each every season

    • @armandodelossantos736
      @armandodelossantos736 Před 5 lety +41

      @@steffwes1312 and he played the worst teams in history at least 10 times a season

    • @JohnJohn-od6oc
      @JohnJohn-od6oc Před 5 lety +18

      Lebron and Shaq would average 100 in that era

    • @user-jk6np5kf7p
      @user-jk6np5kf7p Před 5 lety +30

      But a lot of Wilts legend is BS. He would have never been faster or jumped higher than Lebron James, thats just bullshit media narrative. Watch the tapes, for someone 7'1" with a claimed 48 vert, he never once got his head above the rim (which would be only 35inches). Not once.

  • @Dansg08
    @Dansg08 Před 5 lety +36

    Superb video, I find the numbers behind the NBA almost as fascinating as what goes on on the court, I was pleased to see Wilt still come out on top even after all the adjustment, many are quick to downplay his achievements because of the era he played. It also goes to show how legitimately incredible Luka and Giannis' seasons have been.

    • @TheAnonapersons
      @TheAnonapersons Před 5 lety +1

      Stats don't always translate into true accuracy otherwise houston would of won 20 titles by now and they do everything by stats .. there's always luck and the competition people played against... take into account wilt was playing against the same 8-12 teams most of his career ...

    • @servus_incognitus
      @servus_incognitus Před 2 lety +2

      It is also very feasible to consider that Wilt playing in a team today would average more possessions per game than league average, meaning his scoring would probably be higher. It was good idea to look at Wilt's played minutes and reduced them according to percentage. The same should be done with the possessions per game his team played in relation to league average.

    • @du2thurl42
      @du2thurl42 Před 2 lety

      Wilt didn’t elevate his teams offenses with his volume scoring . Bill > Wilt

  • @TheJoeytsao
    @TheJoeytsao Před 5 lety +30

    As an economics major, I am incredibly impressed with this analysis, great video as always. keep up the good work!

    • @brylinsmith3797
      @brylinsmith3797 Před 2 lety +1

      Major doesn’t equal No how/ professional, with that being said, he does really good analysis

  • @babymaker7425
    @babymaker7425 Před 5 lety +209

    This is a stout performance by you.

  • @hugovega6438
    @hugovega6438 Před 5 lety +59

    You don’t need ESPN . ESPN needs you

    • @yvesmija
      @yvesmija Před 5 lety +2

      Common people wont appreciate discussing numbers that are gotten from statistical formulas and actual rationale. They would just want to hear simple stat-lines such as points rebounds assists and the typical “this guy is better than this guy because he has this many rings”

  • @z4ng3tsu1ch1g0
    @z4ng3tsu1ch1g0 Před 5 lety +41

    Crazy how MJ has the best career PER in NBA history while playing in an era of iso ball (aka inefficient in today’s league) and the slowest pace in league history. MJ was also a volume shooter who chucked a lot of mid ranged jumpers unlike the other PER leaders (lebron and wilt) who scored mostly in the paint. This is just testament to just how great MJ really was. 🐐🐐🐐

    • @neimi911
      @neimi911 Před 5 lety +22

      MJ played in the era of iso. It benefited him. He is on record stating that scoring against zone defence was one of the most difficult things he had to do as a basket ball player. And he called for the removal of zone defence along with players like tmac.
      Hand checking was removed when mj was playing btw.
      Also, mj was averaging 9 free throws a game back then. You can watch tape. The idea of the game was physical as fuck and you don't get a foul unless if it's a flagrant foul is just wrong.
      In short, illegal defence made scoring easier than zone. They used to give fouls normally back in the 90s and 80s. Hand checking was removed when mj was playing.(even before then)

    • @GammaBoom
      @GammaBoom Před 5 lety +16

      @@neimi911 Hand checking was banned in the 2000's. You are right about zone defense though. It was illegal in MJ era but the best teams still played a loose man-to-man defense and thus allowing for easier help defense and almost mimicking a zone defense.

    • @neimi911
      @neimi911 Před 5 lety +2

      @@GammaBoom czcams.com/video/ydOUbQqYb30/video.html

    • @PowerGearPerformance
      @PowerGearPerformance Před 5 lety +3

      @@neimi911 removal of hand check started after the jordan era

    • @neimi911
      @neimi911 Před 5 lety +8

      @@PowerGearPerformance check the link I posted or read a bit on NBA rules history.
      1978: Clarification added to prohibit hand-checking through “rigid enforcement” of rule allowing a defensive player to retain contact with his opponent so long as he does not impede his opponent’s progress.
      1994: Hand-checking eliminated from the end line in the backcourt to the opposite foul line
      1997: A defender will not be permitted to use his forearm to impede the progress of an offensive player who is facing the basket in the frontcourt.
      1999: In the backcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders.
      2004: New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds
      Where is it that hand checking was fully legal in the Jordan era? It was always frowned upon. I've seen a couple of hand check fouls go Jordan's way fyi.

  • @craigvandenberge6520
    @craigvandenberge6520 Před 5 lety +29

    It is always forgotten that Wilt came into the league in an era where the league itself was barely established. Wilt was told to score as much as possible as a draw for fans. It was more of a circus show than a demonstration of perfect team play.
    Also worth pointing out that Wilt's teammates talked about Wilt trying to come out of the game long before getting to 100 and being mildly ashamed of taking 63 fga after the fact.
    Was he perfect?, no. Was he a selfish glory hound?, maybe a bit, but nowhere near the extent usually claimed.

    • @BoosterGoldEarth6
      @BoosterGoldEarth6 Před 2 lety

      Facts

    • @Papichulo-xc5nd
      @Papichulo-xc5nd Před 2 lety

      Craig vandenberge did they tell him to drop his scoring every year in the playoffs?

    • @Papichulo-xc5nd
      @Papichulo-xc5nd Před 2 lety

      @@BoosterGoldEarth6 did they tell him to stop scoring in the playoffs?

    • @11DowningStreet
      @11DowningStreet Před 4 měsíci

      "wilt was told to score as much as possible"
      source: john cena

  • @knoda2603
    @knoda2603 Před 5 lety +42

    Pippen without a doubt traveled

    • @lildwell2
      @lildwell2 Před 5 lety +4

      It wasn't traveling because the rule changed. Technically, every player on every team since the 50s traveled.

    • @crisaracon7379
      @crisaracon7379 Před 4 lety +5

      The gather rule allowed players like MJ Pippen Lebron Giannis to dribble only twice in fastbreaks and go for a dunk. Giannis even reduced it to one sometimes.

    • @Posesso
      @Posesso Před 3 lety

      xD

  • @geoffreyfields6180
    @geoffreyfields6180 Před 5 lety +3

    Great video. Ive always thought about stat inflation in todays game and rule changes effecting play comparisons. But at the same time, its still tough

  • @6SJW6
    @6SJW6 Před 5 lety +3

    Great video! Feels good to see someone trying to keep in mind as many variables as possible while also admitting that these comparisons really aren’t possible no matter how you analyze it.

  • @JaeBee1718
    @JaeBee1718 Před 5 lety +4

    This is one of the greatest basketball videos I've ever watched. I literally subscribed just off this one video.
    I will be binge watching ya whole channel.

  • @randigitymarcum8728
    @randigitymarcum8728 Před 5 lety +126

    And for those counting MJ averaged 30 consistently in an era where it was LUDICROUSLY rare

    • @AJHart-eg1ys
      @AJHart-eg1ys Před 5 lety +26

      True. From his first 30-point season to his last, only two other players averaged at least 30 per game, including the two seasons he didn't qualify for the scoring title because of baseball.

    • @AJHart-eg1ys
      @AJHart-eg1ys Před 5 lety +5

      @dhsilv2 I mean, if you have to use a strict cutoff of 25, sure.

    • @AJHart-eg1ys
      @AJHart-eg1ys Před 5 lety +4

      @dhsilv2 Average team scoring from the late-70s to early 90s only deviated by about 5.5 points between the minimum and maximum. Jordan had three scoring titles after that and one 30-point season that occurred during the first year of the scoring decline, which lasted basically through 2003-04 before it started steadily increasing again. Scoring was pretty consistent from 2004-05 to 2015-16. The last three seasons have been m ore like that 70s-90s stretch.
      Take care.

    • @subswithoutvids-dw6dv
      @subswithoutvids-dw6dv Před 5 lety +2

      @dhsilv2 But in 1996, he still averaged 30+ ppg. He was 33 yrs old, and the league averaged 99.5 ppg.

    • @AJHart-eg1ys
      @AJHart-eg1ys Před 5 lety +4

      @dhsilv2 You wouldn't think so, but it's a benchmark that people use because it's pretty rare. We had 11 people average at least 25 points per game this season alone. Only one of them hit 30. The difference is in how often it's accomplished.
      There's not much difference in MLB between hitting .300 and .250, either, except hundreds of millions of dollars and the HOF.

  • @RDuarte15
    @RDuarte15 Před 5 lety +14

    Wow! Amazed by this video. Literally the best video about basketball history ever! WOW

  • @benjaminbaumgardner7620

    Wow, this video is insane. So much quality, work and thought must have gone into it. Would love to see you make some more of these player comparisons now that you’ve broken down some of the adjustments you like to make.

  • @alaric1170
    @alaric1170 Před 5 lety +13

    Someone who understands statistics! Excellent analysis, even better video.
    Also interesting that you couldn't twist your Palm when dribbling in the 1960s. For the longest time I thought that players just really sucked at dribbling back then! Learned something new.

    • @kimtaphorn9175
      @kimtaphorn9175 Před 2 lety +1

      That's the mistake most of the young nba fans did they watch an 80 ball game and think omg that's all busts, and than claim that anybody of this Era would destroy them completely but without in mind that he got a violation after another for travel and palming in this case another travel

  • @zachskaer6401
    @zachskaer6401 Před 5 lety +8

    Have so much respect for this channel. Def gonna donate to your patreon when I am financially stable. I get more satisfaction and meaning from learning from your videos than most of my college courses.

  • @TheNiTeMaR3
    @TheNiTeMaR3 Před 5 lety

    Recently became a subscriber, such amazing videos! Just goes to show how hard it is to compare players numbers, let alone players numbers across different eras.. I think sometimes the eye test is more useful than many think!

  • @conzoforever
    @conzoforever Před 5 lety

    Amazing video man, please do more videos similar to this one.
    Loved the easy explanation of the statistics and how they seemlessly flowed through the vid.
    Keep uploading content like this and you’ll be one of the biggest basketball channels out there bro !

  • @KaleEb449
    @KaleEb449 Před 5 lety +6

    Man, I just love you. I don't think I've seen NBA stats better explained and analysed than this. Probably the best basketball content I've seen in a while.

  • @theloccyone
    @theloccyone Před 5 lety +31

    Everyone at ESPN should be required to watch this.

  • @winnumber101
    @winnumber101 Před 5 lety

    Thanks for this insightful breakdown, Ben-historical adjustments relative to the player’s circumstance seem to be the best way to filter our biases that we seem to build towards certain eras... & CrumpledJumper’s visuals are fantastic-I love reading his nylon calculus articles haha

  • @TC24Legacy
    @TC24Legacy Před 5 lety +1

    Excellent presentation! Would love to see a video focused on comparing the defensive rule changes and how that's impacted player mobility on the court - using similar game clips taken from different eras showing how defense was played then vs. now - and how this has impacted scoring and offensive mobility over the decades.

  • @TheGbelcher
    @TheGbelcher Před 5 lety +24

    I wonder how the definition of assist has changed over time given how subjective that stat is.

    • @Solodolo84
      @Solodolo84 Před 5 lety

      Everybody eats b

    • @Shawn.Mathew
      @Shawn.Mathew Před 5 lety

      Apparently assists are easier to get now because they are more relaxed

    • @henrybuchan4688
      @henrybuchan4688 Před 4 lety

      Assists used to be defined as "passes leading directly to a score" so if a player received the ball, dribbled, and then made a shot the passing player would not get credit for an assist. This started to change in the 1970s.

    • @kaospat4173
      @kaospat4173 Před 4 lety +3

      @@henrybuchan4688 it still is like that in FIBA Basketball and I think it's better that way ...the NBA is handing out assists like candies...if it was like 61-62 today Oscar Robertson would still be the only player ever to average a TD

    • @liamm6208
      @liamm6208 Před 3 lety

      I mean about 30 or 40% of the Assists in today's game didn't even count back in the day but since the Score keepers have really relaxed the way they score Assists now because it really doesn't matter what pass players make that lead to there teammates scoring because the Score keepers count those passes as Assists and we see a lot of them be made by guys like LeBron and Luka where all they have to do is wait for a teammate to come off a screen then when a teammate comes off a screen they either pump fake a jumpshot then put the ball on the floor then they reload into a jumpshot or They start driving to the basket and score while taking more than 2 dribbles then the Score Keepers give LeBron and Luka Assists on those plays.

  • @austin78993
    @austin78993 Před 5 lety +53

    This video is so important. These guys can do most things players today can do. People act like there is some "evolution" of athletes in the past 50 or so years. There's countless TED talks and analysis of this. Darwin would be rolling over in his grave. The game evolves. Rules evolve. Equipment evolves. Etc. I really don't think the athleticism is that different. There's athletic freaks in every era and there are Luka Doncics and Larry Birds in every era. Guys that were unathletic like Zach Randolph or Bob Petit would be unathletic in any era. Guys like Michel Jordan and LeBron would be above average athleticism in any era. Human beings don't evolve in 50 years. It's the game and what those players work on and develop that change.

    • @udishomer5852
      @udishomer5852 Před 5 lety +7

      If at all, there is a de-evolotion of humans (negative evolution).
      The reasons are that children with serious physical/mental disorders that would not survive even 100 years ago, are now surviving (due to modern medicine), and passing on their genes to the next generation.
      Not saying if its good or bad, just that this phenomenon exists.

    • @user-jk6np5kf7p
      @user-jk6np5kf7p Před 5 lety +2

      Its kinda like when people see videos of HS athletes dunking, that shit has always existed, but back in the day they never had the social media platform to show it.

    • @lostinspace7782
      @lostinspace7782 Před 5 lety +2

      Udi Shomer that is plausible but the frequency of occurrence is very unlikely. These “bad gene” would have to be selected for over potentially “stronger” genes. Even if they were, they would only make up half of a genome. The potential for genetic recombination or for genes to not be expressed in subsequent generations would still exist. In addition, there is always the potential for mutations, which may or may not benefit the species, to occur. By definition, evolution is the change in gene frequencies over very long spans of time. With the exception of prokaryotic organisms, it can be reasonably assumed that 50 years, or even a 1000, is an insufficient time frame to measure the effects of evolution on a population.

    • @miguelecastro
      @miguelecastro Před 5 lety

      @dhsilv2 Agreed. Players like Siakam and the like are perfect for this "positionless" NBA we have now.

    • @bernarddelossantos8083
      @bernarddelossantos8083 Před 5 lety +2

      if todays players are more athletic, its thanks to modern equipments/technologies/science. but one thing is confusing, why are players today more fragile? they play less minutes too but gets injured more easily considering this era is soft, compared to past eras where players actually bleed but still manage to play back.

  • @brianboley870
    @brianboley870 Před 5 lety +2

    This is the best basketball statistics video I have ever seen.
    Really, really great work!!

  • @wanlittle
    @wanlittle Před 5 lety +1

    Youre videos are awesome can really tell you put in a lot of work. Keep up the good work!

  • @Saki630
    @Saki630 Před 5 lety +3

    This video is super high quality and needs to be continued. I know there are other stats guys around that could lend you their simulations, supercomputers, and literature reviews to come up with a wonderful video and published work which introduces mathematics and statistics to the current generation so they are able to grasp how good Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were compared to Lebum.
    And to give some context as to how good James Harden's 50pt+ and free throws really are; how inhuman Klay+Curry's efficiency is for points/minute/possesion -- or how fast you can be down 3 to down 30 pts against them, and how Westbrook's Triple Doubles - including all the ones he did not get due to minutes restriction and other reasons makes him into possibly the best player in the past 10 years for sheer athleticism and natural ability.

  • @wat33640
    @wat33640 Před 5 lety +5

    Did you know that you are one of the smartest CZcamsrs out here and you have a great channel that's my analyst for the day.

  • @tlovin2
    @tlovin2 Před 5 lety

    This is one of the best CZcams channels. All I want to do is show the sports world this video so that they can understand that things are very complex to compare across time. I'm tired of the poor comparisons between players on major networks. I hope this is the future of sports analytics. Great video.

  • @gabjavc
    @gabjavc Před 5 lety +1

    Amazing quality vids from you man! the Infographics are also uncanny and spot on. keep it up👍🏻

  • @enriquesinghjr
    @enriquesinghjr Před 5 lety +3

    A lot of work seems to have gone into this video.
    Paused it to write this comment + subscribed!

  • @iu8040
    @iu8040 Před 5 lety +4

    Hey guy, can you do a video comparing some of the most prominent player stats condensed though this method. Like steph, russ, lebron n stuff with the most prominent of other eras, maybe like 10 players for each decade. Good shit btw.

  • @AZNwill81
    @AZNwill81 Před 5 lety

    Damn one of the best videos I’ve seen ever, not even just about basketball! Loved how u always incorporate stats and numbers into the vids but you took it a step further with the economics analysis into it. U deffo deserve more views and subscribers than u do now

  • @matt_greene
    @matt_greene Před 5 lety

    You have, by far, the best NBA analysis on YT. Well done Ben! I hope this channel gets huge and you get all of the credit you deserve.

  • @LazarTheMaster
    @LazarTheMaster Před 5 lety +48

    Please do that jokic video a lot of people seem to not understand what makes him the best center.

    • @fab137
      @fab137 Před 5 lety

      "embiid better" peeps really dont get it

    • @jamesennis5986
      @jamesennis5986 Před 5 lety +10

      Embiid s better 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

    • @i.theworstguys298
      @i.theworstguys298 Před 5 lety +8

      Embiid is better. I'd much rather have a post scoring defensive monster that has suspect shooting than a five that's a a great shooter and passer but has little post presence and is a total liability on defense.

    • @desmcmahon5570
      @desmcmahon5570 Před 5 lety +3

      I'm not sure if he is the best center, but definitely most unique player in the NBA

    • @chillaxfact4949
      @chillaxfact4949 Před 5 lety

      @Xavier Amador thank u

  • @edoardosimonato
    @edoardosimonato Před 5 lety +2

    This must be the best basketball video ever put on youtube, really... congratulations from Italy 🇮🇹

  • @thomasdantas
    @thomasdantas Před 5 lety +1

    I've been waiting for someone to make this EXACT video! Always have wondered about this.

  • @RatelHBadger
    @RatelHBadger Před 5 lety +3

    Fantastic video. As always, fantasy sports leaguers just have more fodder to debate who truly is the GOAT.
    Would Wilt be able to play in the same high impact defensive era of the 80's, would Harden, Curry and Kobe be able to play in the 60's when ball handling limitations were greater...
    More fuel, more arguments, I love it all!

  • @egvhub6230
    @egvhub6230 Před 5 lety +31

    Ive read ur whole top 40. Love the videos man. I'm a fan for life. Can't wait for the Jokic video. He's in my top 5 in the league rn
    Ok more accurately he's in my top ten

    • @jordankartchner4090
      @jordankartchner4090 Před 5 lety

      Where did you find his top 40?

    • @CoolStuff-yr8ye
      @CoolStuff-yr8ye Před 5 lety +2

      @@jordankartchner4090 Type in Backpicks GOAT Top 40 on the internet. He hasn't updated the list, (he gave the newest list on Twitter) but he writes scouting reports for all-time greats and rank s their careers.

    • @michaelvick4588
      @michaelvick4588 Před 5 lety +3

      Jokic has a ways to go. Bron, KD, Steph, Kawhi and Giannis are better than him. Jokic is in the Harden, AD, Embiid bracket. Not top 5.

    • @kingfadal4711
      @kingfadal4711 Před 5 lety +1

      Michael Vick he’s not even in the that level yet. Jokic is in the lillard Kyrie Paul George level

    • @jayson008
      @jayson008 Před 5 lety

      @@michaelvick4588 g
      Harden is top 5

  • @michaelbland2924
    @michaelbland2924 Před 5 lety

    This was dope. Please keep it up bc I've always liked advanced metrics and historical nba stats. All your vids are fire

  • @raygivler
    @raygivler Před 5 lety

    Great stuff. I love the history of traveling and carrying the ball. As a data visualizer and hoops fan, I like this stuff so much that I bought your book. Looking forward to learning more.

  • @Barncore
    @Barncore Před 5 lety +5

    This is a super important video for all NBA fans to see

  • @John6-40
    @John6-40 Před 5 lety +4

    Every time kids bring up "plumbers" and say today's players are more athletic, I point out the dribbling rules. Easy to look faster when you don't have to dribble "properly".

  • @eli.parker
    @eli.parker Před 5 lety

    These videos have been so enlightening!!!
    Please key them coming so we can put some perspective on what we are seeing. I wish you could do one (somehow) on number #1 draft Pictor something like that.

  • @amantilla13
    @amantilla13 Před 5 lety +1

    i've been watching your channel for only like a month and i already think you are one of the best nba content creators in youtube. this video is amazing.

  • @Dubadubadu123
    @Dubadubadu123 Před 5 lety +14

    I think what this video best shows is that a discussion between Jordan and LeBron, or players in different eras in general is simply impossible

    • @Bradley2806
      @Bradley2806 Před 5 lety

      Exactly

    • @jjab430
      @jjab430 Před 5 lety +3

      I think it's possible, it's just a lot more nuanced than comparing pts/rbs/ast and awards.

    • @CoolStuff-yr8ye
      @CoolStuff-yr8ye Před 5 lety

      Yet the guy who made the video created an all-time career rankings list so he probably would disagree

    • @BUDOKAIultimate3
      @BUDOKAIultimate3 Před 3 lety

      The GOAT already told yall that....lol

  • @threeteeflee
    @threeteeflee Před 5 lety +4

    I wish we could take every legendary player, and coach, from there best individual season, and have them play out one season to see who the real king is.

  • @RGL211
    @RGL211 Před 5 lety

    Amazing video, thank you. Your hard work and knowledge is evident. Thank you again!

  • @naturenook1
    @naturenook1 Před 5 lety +1

    Never thought about the mid-dribble suspension component of it. Nice informative video!

  • @soccerlegend7774
    @soccerlegend7774 Před 5 lety +41

    Great video. Can you do one about Steph curry like number behind the 15-16 season or how he revolutionized the game. Steph curry is player you should do video on. Thanks if you do

    • @alexandreschmitt7006
      @alexandreschmitt7006 Před 5 lety +8

      Facts. I'm waiting on a video on Curry too. His 2015-16 season is the greatest I have ever seen. He's still a great player but when you look back at his highlights, it's like he was a totally different player. He looks human nowadays.

    • @trans_1997
      @trans_1997 Před 5 lety +4

      Alexandre Schmitt you mean the greatest REGULAR season. He was a disgrace in the playoffs especially in the playoffs.

    • @chickenmanoktae
      @chickenmanoktae Před 5 lety +1

      @@alexandreschmitt7006 Because he was going all-out that regular season in which he and the team paid the price in the playoffs. Now, Steph and the whole Warriors team are just coasting in the regular season. They don't want to make the same mistake again.

    • @haydenrubin1663
      @haydenrubin1663 Před 5 lety

      @@JokerMarkHamill stfu with that bullshit

  • @doodbob2250
    @doodbob2250 Před 5 lety +4

    Felt like an episode of Chart Party. You better get an internship at SB at the very least..

  • @crazyskar
    @crazyskar Před 5 lety

    Great video , can't wait to watch more of what you put out in this channel.

  • @smokesletsgo8180
    @smokesletsgo8180 Před 5 lety +1

    First video I've came across of yous. Awesome video, had to hit subscribe 👍

  • @emmanuelr710
    @emmanuelr710 Před 5 lety +2

    Players today jump much higher, shoot far more accurate and run much faster than the past.

    • @Portrial
      @Portrial Před 5 lety +3

      But the rules are different than the past

  • @jameslearing970
    @jameslearing970 Před 5 lety +3

    How do you combine pts, rebounds and drb% into a single percentage?

    • @ThinkingBasketball
      @ThinkingBasketball  Před 5 lety +1

      It's a basic linear regression -- the right amount of each predicts triple-double percentage pretty well.

  • @Sn0wM3n111
    @Sn0wM3n111 Před 5 lety

    you got to continue that way man, pretty much all your content is way better than what I've found on CZcams

  • @antoinemerat2220
    @antoinemerat2220 Před 5 lety +1

    Great video!
    You could also have talked about goal tendings and offensive interfernces + de 14 secondes after an offensive rebound today.

  • @nicolasmartins5601
    @nicolasmartins5601 Před 5 lety +10

    This channel is super interesting. Stats can be really deceiving, creating false narratives as well as over glorifying some and underrating others

    • @ThinkingBasketball
      @ThinkingBasketball  Před 5 lety +2

      My book is all about that if you haven't already read it: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Basketball-Ben-Taylor/dp/1532968175

  • @PTrey
    @PTrey Před 5 lety +4

    why does 2006 kobe have #24 and the fro tho?

  • @WangEmHigh831
    @WangEmHigh831 Před 5 lety

    I'm glad my friend introduced me to your channel. You always help me shed light a new way on basketball. You're the best basketball channel I've ever watched by a mile

  • @773p
    @773p Před 5 lety

    Glad I found this channel, your breakdown is excellent thank you

  • @christophersmith2924
    @christophersmith2924 Před 5 lety +7

    vsauce but its basketball

  • @6SJW6
    @6SJW6 Před 5 lety +4

    I’ll see Charles Barkley wonder how so many older players got more rebounds than him and praise Oscar Robertson so much for his triple double stats. It’s kind of frustrating but I doubt most players put as much thought into statistics as to compare number of possessions across eras.

  • @garrettdurr7155
    @garrettdurr7155 Před 5 lety

    Thanking you for this video, it gives context to the things you have to consider when you compare basketball players from different eras.

  • @SoccerFR3AK278
    @SoccerFR3AK278 Před 5 lety

    might be the best video i've ever seen comparing players from different eras. outstanding stuff

  • @GuyoftheStars
    @GuyoftheStars Před 5 lety +3

    Best basketball channels
    1. Basketball Examined
    2. Thinking Basketball
    3. Dom 2K

  • @0401412740
    @0401412740 Před 5 lety +12

    The economic comparison to basketball made my IQ higher. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. #inflation

    • @tanaraci92
      @tanaraci92 Před 5 lety +4

      That has nothing to do with inflation.

    • @BoscoTungWaldo
      @BoscoTungWaldo Před 5 lety

      If they keep printing money, or in basketball terms if league average scoring gets easier and easier.

  • @evanthomas9007
    @evanthomas9007 Před 5 lety

    Amazing quality. Really appreciate your hoops insight!

  • @JammaLamma
    @JammaLamma Před 5 lety

    Just watched the Jokic video straight into this one I might binge watch every video on this channel like right now. Best BB channel i ever seen, straight up

  • @mannnnnn123456
    @mannnnnn123456 Před 5 lety +3

    So basically MJ is still the best ever. Gotchya

  • @RealEnglishNow
    @RealEnglishNow Před 5 lety

    As a fellow CZcams or and editor of the many years I want to congratulate you on an outstanding job with this video that I know took a lot of time effort and research and superior editing skills to put together such a fine package that is a joy to watch and learn from. You were doing excellent things my friend please keep it up !

  • @Mrgiftedsoul
    @Mrgiftedsoul Před 4 lety

    Brilliant work my friend this is some truly informative stuff

  • @tylermurphy37
    @tylermurphy37 Před 5 lety

    This is a damn good video!! You really opened my eyes to how to look at and compare the star over the years!

    • @tylermurphy37
      @tylermurphy37 Před 5 lety

      An whoever the 45 people are that 👎🏽 this video must be retarded.

  • @Reepeet64
    @Reepeet64 Před 5 lety

    Fantastic analysis! Great insight, statistics, visuals, and overall flow.

  • @kaospat4173
    @kaospat4173 Před 4 lety +2

    I just found some data saying in 112 games of Wilt's career (probably his last 112 games) where blocks where counted he averaged 8.8 a game ...that's crazy

  • @neub4321
    @neub4321 Před rokem

    Glad you tackled this. I understand inflation adjustments but very little basketball. Love the bobbleheads.

  • @rickw1686
    @rickw1686 Před 5 lety

    Loved the graphics of all the players in the episode those complimented really well!

  • @JStem361
    @JStem361 Před 5 lety

    Amazing video. Huge fan of this channel. Well done sir.

  • @cudiveli4690
    @cudiveli4690 Před 5 lety

    The ad annoyed me, but how smooth you transitioned out of it back into the video impressed me. Great video.

  • @user-li7ce1ex6i
    @user-li7ce1ex6i Před 5 lety

    I really love this account man. Keep at it!!

  • @xHibachi24x
    @xHibachi24x Před 5 lety +1

    I’ve become a huge fan of your channel. Is this channel all run by you alone? I ask because the amount of work you put into each video does not go unseen!!! I really appreciate your time and effort.

  • @BrianKern
    @BrianKern Před 5 lety

    Really great video. I try to make these exact arguments all the time on forums but from now on I'll just link this video.

  • @jazzchromaticdulcimer4223

    Great video, you make such great videos!

  • @lucashammond5191
    @lucashammond5191 Před 5 lety

    This is a very well put together video...thank you

  • @Luca-yb4sh
    @Luca-yb4sh Před 5 lety +1

    Man, you are great! Fantastic video!