My Trees Died...Gutted.
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2023
- Sadly many of the new trees I planted in winter have died. I am not sure why, could have been the lack of rain over the summer months, or perhaps not enough sunlight. Either way I'm gutted but I am learning lessons on this journey into managing a small woodland in little old England.
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I am no silvaculturalist but I did work as a forestry technician for an International Paper company for seven years and also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a week ago. When planting pine seedlings it is extremely important to not "J" root the tap root or the larger side roots. To avoid this, we would actually cut off the first couple of inches or so, back to an area less susceptible to bending upward when planting. When hand dibbled in, we would push the dibble in, pull it out. place the seedling into the hole, dibble behind it closing the hole and then pulling the seedling up an inch or two. Our survival rate dramatically increased. If a tree dies from the tip downward it is usually due to the tap root being J'd or from damping off (too wet a soil at the time of planting.) If the soil is a bit mucky at the time of planting the root is basically drowned and cannot breath. This also instigates fungal infection....another possible culprit.
That’s interesting! Thanks for the comment, food for thought.
I found that planting deeper and then lifting up a few inches helps on a lot of plants. I notice much less "transport shock" that way. Good tip sir.
Some trees can potion the ground so other species can't grow.. maybe that you can't plant these trees together
You made some good points, food for thought indeed, Wayne; but it was the unanticipated "Holiday Inn" quip that elicited my responce: I LITERALLY, not figuratively or virtually, LAUGHED OUT LOUD!
@@willong1000 LOL...Merry Christmas
I currently work as a head gardener on an estate and I've worked in horticulture all my life, with two diplomas and a degree in the subject, specialising in Phytophthora. My point is I have some advice. In a nursery you'll take double the amount of cuttings you need, when planting out small whips, you should do similar, expecting to lose a fair few of them. Up to 50% isn't surprising. Finally, the guards aren't letting in enough light, be selective with light and if you can't find enough of it plant shade tolerant - Hawthorne, hazel etc. Also, that Hazel coppice you pointed out has an established root system and a 'weather memory' (how to tolerate draughts etc), it's also probably loaded with mycorrhizal fungi, there's no comparing it with a scrawny Sorbus. As for people telling you about irrigation, when they plant out new forests with whips it's a numbers game not an irrigation one (and yours is a deciduous forest, you should be fine), the savvy tree survives, the eager dies.
Thanks so much for the advice. Good to know losing 50% is common! Glad I’m not the only one. It’s all pretty new to me but I’m loving the journey. I’m going to be planting more hawthorn further along the boundary this year. Any advice on best months/time of year to plant?
@@TAOutdoors No problem at all! Spring (April onwards, March can still catch a frost) or Autumn (September - I prefer late September these days/ October) are always the best times to plant, but with the whole global warming business it's becoming more difficult to remain confident in a predictable weather pattern.
This is helpful advice to all of us, thanks!
As a phytopathologist myself I back this up, it seems like a soil born fungus.
I've read a good few advice comments but as someone who is also has experience in these matters this is the best advice I've seen. Everything covered nothing for me to add 👍
Mike, I planted 366 trees this spring - all UK native. I had a a 50% mortality. The trees that did well were ones I had grown from seed. I have heard that nursery grown trees are more susceptible to dying off. Transplant shock can cause issues. It might just be one of those things and I know experts will plant in higher densities to get the numbers they need. Don’t loose faith.
I've been watching you for many years. I must be honest, I just happened across your video and realized I haven't watched you in a year or two. (the Viking shelter with the long fire pit was what I last remember...) I see your dad is joining you. I lost my dad and I have to say- cherish every single moment you have with your father. He is truly a gift. I miss my father more than anything. Raise a cup of that mulled wine to your father and tell him that an old bloke from Phoenix, Arizona USA said HI. Love you guys.
It warms my heart to see Mike bond with his dad like that, these moments are so precious.
well said!
Last year I planted about 150 trees, some were in spiral guards and some in tubes. Every tree in the spirals died, all but one of the trees in tubes survived. It was a very hot summer and the spirals basically cooked the trees, because spirals are smaller diameter every leaf was in direct contact with the hot plastic. I now use only mesh tubes as the ventilation is so much better, so far all good.
I also buy my mesh on a roll so that I can cut to size which I can now choose. Its a bit more work but works out cheaper.
I also now use steel fencing pins instead of timber stakes. They cost a bit more but you can keep reusing them for years so if you have a rolling planting plan it works out cheaper. They dont snap in the wind and they do less damage to roots & mycorzia and they are easier to knock in and later remove.
It's really heart-warming to watch you and your Dad spending time together. Memories to last a lifetime.
There are a lot of variables as to why your trees probably didn't do very well, but I think the main problem was the plastic you encased them in. That type of tree protector should be cut back to below the branches so it only covers the trunk. A more effective way to protect them from deer would be some chicken wire or hardware cloth or some oversized "tomato cages" made from small sections of metal fence bent into a tube with spaces large enough to reach into but small enough a deer's head can't fit into. The way you had them completely covered, they didn't get enough ventilation, or light. This encourages rot, and when they have leaves they also can't get enough fresh air. Planting in winter is not ideal, but as long as they were fully dormant, it shouldn't have been much of a problem. If they were kept indoors or in a warm enough place for long enough to break dormancy, planting them outside in freezing conditions could kill them. The fuzz on the service tree could be mold, signs of an insect infestation, or just natural fuzz on the branch. I couldn't see it well enough, and I'm not familiar enough with that species, but they do need a good bit of light to survive and can often die with too much shade. If you're worried about over or under watering, you could always shove a finger into the dirt to see if it's dry or moist. You wouldn't want the soil to go bone dry on you, but the spot you planted in looks like a fairly damp microclimate, though, so I'd be more concerned about overwatering unless you're in a drought. Overwatering could cause root rot, which could kill the plant. I'd highly recommend using some mulch at least temporarily next time to keep the soil more consistent and it would also help over time with soil fertility. There is a lot of competition for light in that spot, so it would be a good idea to take note of how many hours of sunlight a spot gets before planting, which would be easier to do when all the trees have their leaves. By the way, at 9:09 it looks to me like last year's growth with this year's growth on top of it.
dont matter what you do or what you cook, any time spent with your dad is just golden, and long may it continue buddy.
my old man annoys me sometimes but i cherish every second spent
With the way the worlds heading I think your one of the luckiest men alive having your own little chunk of nature to get lost in and not think about the outside world. Love your content!
Amen
👍👌👏 At last, a video together with your Dad. I like these the most. 2) My guess is, that the young trees died because the protection tubes didn't let enough light in.
Thanks a lot for making teaching explaining recording editing uploading and sharing.
Best regards luck and especially health to all of you.
Glad you're getting time with your dad!!! Making great memories!! Good stuff..
I’ve always wanted to live in my plains Indian tipi on a bit of land forage for food and practice bushcraft skills but haven’t got the money to buy land and it’s hard to find land to rent I love your videos and it’s great to see you doing what you love
That place you have nurtured and took guardianship of looks absolutely halcyon .
Regarding chestnuts , I noticed they were about three weeks behind here in the Surrey hills and as Doug observed they are a little stunted by comparison . Nature is a swings and roundabouts rhythm and I don’t see it a crisis .
First thought I had was maybe the protective piece you put on is not allowing enough sunlight
Mike, we're losing about fifty percent of the trees we're planting here in the northern bit of Idaho too. Last few summers have been hot, dry, or both. If you haven't been, track which kinds of trees are dying and which aren't. Then continue to plant the species that seems hardiest.
While both blue spruce and lodgepole pine are native to our area, we've lost 38 of the 40 blue spruce we've planted over the last three years and only two of the lodgepole pine. Ponderosa pine is running about 50/50.
We also have problems with field mice eating the roots of fruit trees. So there's another thing to watch for.
Some trees don't like being close to other specific species, and some have leaves that are toxic to other plants.. There's a lot to take look out for.
I'm saying 'keep at it' and you'll get there. Take notes on what you're planting and where. What survived and what didn't, what you noticed about the differences in placement - was the tree planted in a high or low spot? how much sun exposure the location gets and during what part of the day, etc. Sooner or later you're going to see the pattern and you'll be able to put it to work.
Cheers from Idaho,
Les
I cared for 320 trees this year and over the summer we lost maybe 8-10% to the drought, with me hand watering them every other day. I grow trees at home just for fun too and I've noticed a large number of mine have suffered from various problems but mostly infections have killed them from the top down, I think I've saved my sweet chestnut by heavily pruning the infected areas but I've lost many orange and lemon trees, apricots and peaches. It's been quite a bad year for fruit trees for me. MY biggest successes have been my hazel and ash saplings.
Could it be that the protective sleeves (or whatever you call them) are reducing the amount of light getting through to the young trees? In the open, it probably wouldn't matter, but considering they're already in shade in the middle of the woods, that could be part of the reason for them not growing.
That's my thought too, they look very opaque, even if woodland saplings like shade when they are young, this is maybe too much shade
I did actually wonder if this was the case. As although the Red Oaks were well munched by deer, they still had new growth.
i'd bet lack of light also@@TAOutdoors
@@TAOutdoorsI'm across the pond and working in a sunny field, but I planted 15 saplings this spring, mix of poplar and white and red oak (local natives). They all leafed out beautifully, and they were all decimated by deer shortly after. Bark okay, but all their leaves gone. I added tree tubes in the summer to the 12 that rebounded, and of those, one more died on me since.
I nearly lost another one, but when I noticed leaves shrinking through the tube, I pulled it off and found a very fat and happy (and safe in the tube) caterpillar. Removed him and returned the tube. Hopefully it will make it.
Overall 11/15 isn't bad for zero irrigation and a very dry late summer/fall.
“It smells like fish fish doesn’t it” “It is a fish fish!” love you two, great double act.
It makes me so happy to see you & your father spending time together creating such amazing memories 🥰
You two guys show how all father and son relationships should be, cheers!
Your Dad and you get along so well. Good to see.
It's always so good to see you and your dad together😊
I'm only the keeper of a garden, not a woodland, but I know how hard it is to lose something you had high hopes for. Every spring I'm biting my nails waiting to see what will come back. Some years I'm lucky, some not so much. I do know that most new plantings need a lot of water to get started in life, so maybe that's what happened.
Another interesting video. Thanks for the information and entertainment. My Dad, who's been planting trees for 50 years or so, once said to me something along the lines of 'plant twice as many trees as you want' on account of probably loosing every other one. Also, just out of curiosity, have you heard of and/or watched any of Jack Hargreaves' old TV shows like 'Old Country' or 'Out of town'? I think you and your Dad would love them. You can find some of them here on CZcams. Keep up the good work and God bless.
This was a strange summer. Lots of trees died here in northern germany. Before calling a tree dead, you have to look at the roots. Greetings
My guess is on deyhdration. The soil is drying up everywhere and climate change is JUST starting.
Sort of agree with the climate change arguement here. Used to be that tree planting season was in the summer for the uk, but its recently been changed because autumn is a better season to nurse young trees because we simply dont get the spring and summer rain we used to.
That's why mother nature is unpredictable. Sometimes it's not in your favor and sometimes it gives you hope. Just continue planting Mike.
It's so cool to see all these knowledgeable folks share their knowledge here!
Having worked in the parks and planting trees, we tend allow what ever varieties to grow in big pots as nurseries do until a certain age and height.
After that , we therefore plant in the grounds with some stacks to hold it against wind direction and add a biodegradable water hose for anyone to water.
Hi Dad 👋 So good to see you two out and about together - proper family time 🥰
I'm so jealous of your relationship with your father. You seem to have such a great bond.
This has been brilliant to watch . Seeing you and your dad together just enjoying the outdoors is what it's all about , Spot on ! 👍🏻
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
@@TAOutdoorsI’ve done some tree planting and those are a too high animals grazing on saplings is actually beneficial and totally natural, as long as it’s not overly grazed it strengthens the tree as it realised it has to contend with being eaten, hope you see this and it helps
I don't usually comment on videos, but that barrel you're using for rain collection might just be one made by the company I work for. I had to pause the video to make out the lettering on the rivets, but if I read them correctly (KY), then it's definitely one made by my workplace. I could be entirely mistaken however just the thought that a barrel I may have worked on is being repurposed by a creator I enjoy watching is a nice thought.
I planted 8 beech trees here in our forest last winter which is mostly oak and pine dominated, very sandy poor soil. I first had to remove some gnarly looking pines to create more light. I bought them about 1 meter tall with root ball and I applied a mulch layer around them, also spreading wood ashes on top of the mulch layer. I also put some steel wire around them to protect them from deer. I had to water them quite often this summer whenever we didn't get rain for more than a week I would water them giving them about 10 liters each. I think I must have watered them like 10-12 times this year, I had to walk and fill up the water can from 50 meters away from where the trees are so 8 times once for each tree. In early spring I also noticed there were alot of aphids on the leaves and caterpillars, some saplings had half of their leaves chewn off. I applied some garlic infused water on the leaves and this saved them. All 8 of them are still alive and I hope next year they will put on some more growth, this year only like 2 inches.. The amount of work to keep young trees alive in a forest is insane.. I also planted 4 swamp cypress, had to water them also but they are pest and deer resistant.
As a natural resource manager in Aus we used much larger tree guard and mostly a clearer plastic. Light is key but as @Wayne mentioned planting technique is critical. Good luck and thanks for the videos.
I'm 65 and we always ate "raw" chestnuts while we were foraging. In fact I'd never heard of roasting chestnuts apart from in the Christmas song!
As a Forester in the industry Mike and looking at the footage, its looks to me that poor light is probably the main factor for loss of trees, but summer weed competitions for nutrients and moisture can also have a part to play. Hazel when young thrive on being able to survive under fairly dense overcanopy until they become more mature and require more light. Cheers Julian
Sorry for your loss 😢
Hello great job. Just wanted to let u know that that type of flooring is supposed to be staggered. Ur floor will last much longer. I'm a carpenter by trade and flooring is my specialty . If u have any questions don't hesitate to ask.
Sorry to here about your trees Mike, hopefully some of them will recover.
So sorry to hear that, keep up your good work.
Have faith in your abilities and you will figure things out.
Great little shack mate. You should stick some insulation in that ceiling before you finish boarding it up.
Mike I love seeing you and your dad together you should have him on more videos with you. thanks for sharing your life with all of us
11:26 I have one of them but I bought it for burgers, I know there are burger sized ones available, but that's really long including the handle so it's easier to position depending on the size of the campfire.
(If you don't have a campfire, you're not camping, just save the top level of grass and put it back on when you're done, leave no trace etc)
I think that the deer dont eat the hawthorn because later on in time they! will provide them with berries to eat at a later date .God bless you and your family .Lee
😊Thanks for sharing. Take care
Thank you for sharing your journey 🙏🕊 🌏
Woww, your forest is heaven. Thank for video.
Awesome video! Love seeing you and your dad getting out and enjoying nature. We have been in severe droughts here in Western Canada the past three summers, and flooding conditions in spring and fall. Weather patterns are changing and we have been seeing extremes.
Nothing is guaranteed. Nature works by its own rules. Live and learn 👍🏾
Good chestnuts raw are fantastic and sweet. A little pain to get the bitter inner brown part off. For every kilo a winter that I ate cooked (boiled, oven roasted or fire roasted) I bet there was 1/2 as much I ate raw. Tip: if you want raw chestnuts without the bitter and pain deshelling, blanch them for a minute. Or a minute in the microwave (needs slits or a bang and a mess will happen!!) with a teaspoon of water. It'll create steam, get under the inner brown bit making it easy to get to the fruit.
I do like the way you and your dad interact. It is so good to watch your videos. Down under we are heading into a long hot and dry summer.
It makes my day seeing your dad with you mike on your chanel
The trees you buy have lived the best live possible in their nersery and now you plant them in a real forrest with not that much light an fungi ... If you want healthy trees , plant the seeds direktly where you want the trees to grow, but of curse Not one seed per Spot but Like 6 or so .
The seedling will know how to grow in the inviorment in wich it germantes, instead of having to adapt completely new conditions after 2 years living without a Care in the world, because everything is providet.
Love your contend , been watching for 5 years i think and have learned a Lot from you, thank you !!
Regards from a germa Guy
Mike, you don't know how lucky you are to have a dad like that. Cherish him (as I am sure you do)
“Ty good chap”
Man y’all two are awesome
Love the improvements!!
Your dad is great, bless him 😊
Just doing some googling and Hawthorne leaves can in some circumstances give you can upset stomach so that might be why the deer avoid them. Just a thought I had when you talked about it
Wild Service Tree seems to be classified as a very light-demanding species. Light-demanding species in general can't really grow under any canopy shading. Gotta catch up with your woodland series, good stuff:)
it looks like the trees only did well where you didnt have that plastic around them, maybe try removing those covers
Did you test the PH? If there are plants that poison the soil to suit themselves it could have affected the trees.
Up here we already have snow on the hills and getting frost on the ground on the mornings but I am above 56°N.
Just a little point, don't lay any wood in rows, always interlock them it makes a stronger floor and it stops water getting in.
That fish grill looks real nice and a great cookup. 👍
Try cleaning around the dead plants u planted like cutting off the un wanted greens and dig a hole like 15 inch far from the plant and the hole should be like meeting with the root and add some veggies waste and have the opening high up with the pvc and let it open
So sorry for your losses of saplings, it's interesting to hear of the reasons and to read the comments of trained horticulturists. Great to see you and your dad out in your woodland. 👍
So glad to see you still have the land when you moved I thought maybe you would have gotten rid of the land. So happy!
Nice fish dinner. Too bad about the loss of of the trees.
I have had a near identical issue with my new hedge: hawthorn and field maple untouched but my blackthorn has been ravaged - by both rabbit and deer but also by horses!
Have you considered doing some mushroom cultivation in the woodland? Shitake, Oyster, Lions Mane, Morel, etc. Not necessarily for profit, but as resource for yourselves and for family and friends. You also did mention at one point that you wanted to have/host bush-craft classes and training, what better way for hands on learning to handily have some common species for forage identification, and enjoyment. Similarly areas where you have some other wild edible greens. Maybe even doing some beekeeping, think of all the berries, fruit, nuts, and it'd even help your neighbor farms, not to mention some honey. Going back to mushrooms, you have some great tree species that would produce many mushroom types, from Ash and Hazel (Morel), Oak (Boletes, Chanterelles, Shitake and many more)
So much inspiration for your many projects! I love your enthusiasm, Mike and Graeme. 😊 I look forward to seeing what you both get up to. Cheers!
As others have said. Those saplings need LOTS of water. You need to like dig a bit of a "Moat" around the base of each tree, so hold water. And yes, not enough sun might have also been a cause. Live and learn, and try again next spring. So collect as much water as you can and water the new tree's a lot.
dude im in colchester ,dad was a bodger and a traveller as most of his side were. if you ever need an extra pair of hands im always ready. no charge i just love the channel and what you do.
can agree that it is probably too little light. preferably if it is a leaf tree forest, hardly anything new grows under the tree crowns
Saplings are very vulnerable in their first year, especially ones that have not naturally seeded and have been planted by people. They could have just gone into shock due to the weather (humidity and wind stress) and may start again next year. They are also more prone to dehydration as their roots are not established and they can only really access water that is in the top layers of the soil. The coverings are not going to contribute to their downfall and they are only really needed for the saplings first 12 months.
Good afternoon across the Pond and outstanding shelter
Next time you plant , go & buy some cans of tuna fish (in water only ) & dig your hole for your trees & in the bottom of the hole spread out half a can or so of the fish then lightly cover with some good potting dirt , put the tree in & backfill with the natural dirt & water regularly , had the same problem one year with oaks , sugar maples & walnut trees , a guy at my local nursery told me about this years ago & the trees took to it very nicely going on 9 years now & their all big & strong now .
Or he could just use the left over fish they ate.
Oh, and as some one else said. Maybe get bigger tree's to plant? Also fertilizer of some kind would help. Or some kind of plant food.
Try collecting pine cones in piles they grow easy those chestnuts you foraged plant some of them it is fall go to a friend's house get some pine cones nuts they can grow water them when you check on your land my grandfather was a forestry Engineer .
We have state foresters in the states you can get seedlings ! Tell your dad I had many Triumph motorcycles bonivilles tridents tigers mad a best on show BSA at Triumph day !!! Great video !!!
What I was always told when planting trees is soak the bottom of the hole, put perforated pipe next to the stem as deep as the roots then fill the pipe when the weather is dry. Getting water to the roots is key. Pouring water onto the surface will take humongous amounts of water to penetrate even a few inches of soil.
Fantastično... Super...
You two do so well together.
My guess would be lack of light, probably added by the tree tube. Have you tried getting mycorrhizal fungi to inoculate your trees with when your plant them? It allows the roots to communicate and share resources with other trees more quickly as it gets established. Planting in tree tubes has a pretty low survival rate, 50% is pretty average. If you're reforesting small patches I'd suggest planting more whips in the area, different varieties, and allowing nature to select for the strongest in the bunch.
Great vid. Love that location. You're so lucky to have that patch of woodland. Brilliant for escapism and mental health
Sorry about your trees dude, but good to see you and your dad kicking it in the woods over some fish again. Its been a lot time since I have been able to watch a video. Hope to catch up and binge some soon.
Really cool. Willow works great for your fencing too. It grows like crazy. and you can use it for so many applications at your camp.
I live in California and here the heat can (and does) kill new shrubs and trees
Memories being made right there
I am a tree planter too, 2022 was the worst for tree loss with the prolonged drought, but this year has been much better. I experiment to find which trees like which kind of ground as it seems there is a sweet spot for various species between too dry and too wet. This weekend my wood was entirely underwater due to the river bursting its banks but I think for the most part they will be ok although a yew I planted only the day before got uprooted by the flood. In order to get a good drink in drought the trees have to root well.
Hi Mike, great video and thank you for the update, love what you’re doing with your woodland. I know a bit about trees, I have just finished an apprenticeship in countryside management, but my main interest is trees and trying to get into Coppicing. I think they probably died of a variety of things: sunlight/too much competition, not enough water and the fluff on the one looks like it has some sort of fungus on it, I am not a expert so can’t help with identifying and I can’t tell you whether that is a fungus to worry about so it could be a factor it might not be. If you want to plant again I would suggest creating an area with some extra light and really try and focus watering on that area through the summer. Another quick tip is see what trees where there historically. Good luck with everything you do!
Loved watching looks ace the work your doing and now autumn is here it's a ace time to be out
Planting nuts is much lower maintenance than bare root saplings. Some species are very shade intolerant.
Thanks for the hawthorn and blackthorn tip, we don't have deer but we do have rabbits. I'm looking to plant 70 metres of boundary hedge on our woodland of mixed species. Enjoyed the cooking too 😉
I love these videos with your dad. Makes me miss mine. We never did anything like this though lol but I like the idea of
I Say Mike Old chap! Splendid transmission on the wireless. Sorry about your trees and hope some make a come back and make it. Love your cabin that's ruddy super and love seeing you out with your dad behind enemy lines. That tip about chestnuts and how marvellous that it was from your great grandad who passed that on to you dad who probably learnt from his dad or even his great grandad! Incredible! And there you are enjoying them as they would have all those years ago passing on family tips and traditions. Glad you like the Sweet Peggy's hot chocolate. Subbed your dad's channel and life of Mike. Looking forward to intercepting transmissions. Thanks awfully and Tally-Ho Steve TSD ♨️
Thanks awfully old chap! Many thanks for the kind words! Splendid Hot Chocolate. Let me pop a link to that in the description so the good folks who watch this video can find you!
So cool that you guys are allowed to do all this. In Europe there are just some countries that allow wild camping but in most countries is againts the law. In some countries its not allowed even if the owner of the land lets you stay there (main reason is to protect nature) and if you are cought you pay a fine. We do have places where you are allowed to camp but its so not the same as wild camping.
Nice view
Do you think it's a lack of breathability through the plastic tree cover that caused fungus outbreak maybe you should try making a Barrel shaped cover out of chicken wire
Sorry about ur trees mike maybe a wider guard if light is indeed the problem... take care mate
Have a look into getting microrisal fungus. If you plant certain species of trees without their Supportive fungus they don’t make it. You can get it as dried powder.
Just a question: In Great Britain, aren't floors laid without cross joints, i.e. with T-joints? Because how you lay your plastic tiles will cause the floor to rise or warp, which is a misplaced mistake.