I think the water is getting into the piston and until its cleared, it causes the bolt from operating. Think of it as hydro lock of the piston in the gas system and until it is fired a couple of times to clear the water it will malfunction. You get water on both sides of the piston. The piston makes it harder for the water to drain. DI guns would just blow all the water into the bolt and out into the action. Good to know if I lose my MPX in a boating accident and just happen to find it later. Great job MAC.
Considering this issue likely cost them the military contract, I don't think this video is really any news to them. It's more newsworthy to owners who wouldn't expect a tablespoon of water to cause their gun not to work.
It’s great that you ran the test with the cover open and then closed. Unbiased, fair testing. Great work! I wonder if Sig will make rolling changes in production, and claim that it always worked with water?
Had a ghm9mm. Looked everywhere, can't find anything close to the problem I had. Mine was having double feed every mag, and the mag would come off without pressing the mag release after 1200 rounds.... Sold it after I got my mpx.
@@danielshen3438 That sucks dude. I've had mine for a little over a year and its been perfect. Fed it hollowpoints, FMJ, steel case, +P, it ate everything without complaints. My only complaint is that i can't put on a vertical foregrip without triggering the feds.
I would like to propose an extra test of shaking the MPX vigorously after being submerged before firing. Can the hydro lock be cleared with only one shake? Two shakes? A full second of vehement swinging?
I didn't think of it but good question. Have a Gen 2, 8" barrel version. If ya shake it more than twice tho..... Anybody know why SIG abandoned that model? Add a brace and slimmer handguard and better trigger and it serves it's purpose well. Guess now I know why it came with that little 8" umbrella and a huge Ziploc bag. L8r.
Standard operating procedure for an M-16 family of weapon is to pull back slightly on the bolt to break the seal on the breech and to allow the water to drain out of the barrel. Unless the barrel is cold hammer forged, firing with water in the barrel can cause damage.
The water is slowing down the bolt to where it is sluggish enough to not eject spend casing - the fact that it blew through the other tests is amazing.
Man I had NO IDEA that water could block gas/air from moving through a piston system! Thank God for the ‘EL Gauntlet’ test to explain physics to us! Now we can act all surprised that water stopped the gas from entering the gas block which then doesn’t allow the piston to cycle. Lol hell I’m glad that MAC, and everyone else, got Sig to tighten up their QC and this version MPX ACTUALLY works to begin with!!
@@hwi7114 yeah because the gas ports on the top of the barrel of most guns so it would drain out before he shot it. This one has something that’s allowing the water to keep it blocked.
Tim i just had a random thought while watching this video. I remember telling my fellow firearm enthusiasts about you when I was a sophomore in high school. That was almost 10 years now!
Mine worked flawlessly when I tried this same test (fully submerged in water till bubbles came out) I was a little worried about it after watching this so I tried it myself... I used sig elite performance 9mm hollow points during my experiment also a well broken in mag! I honestly am at a loss for words, but I’ve heard some weird stories about the sig mpx in the past. Maybe some quality assurance issues going on or luck of the draw lol
Just order the SIG micro umbrella and patent pending huge SIG Ziploc bag. Just found a backpack that my Gen 2, 8" barrel fits in without printing and now I gotta find a dang water proof one but thank goodness you found that weak spot. Hey, could attach one of those cans of air to it to blow out the gas tube if your do SEAL type missions or cant afford a poncho. My MPX is givin me THAT look. L8r.
From what I remember it was a bad idea to submerge an M60 in water as well. When the gas piston got wet it became a single shot until you pulled out the piston and dried it off.
"I don't know where you'd find yourself in a submerged situation where youd immediately have to bring your weapon up and use it." Mac obviously hasn't seen the movie Crawl 🐊
i like to keep a Benelli M4 and BCM Recce 11 staged in the shallow end of the pool while swimming during summer months. i was going to add this MCX at the deep end, but now I have to rethink this plan entirely. i will also be asking for an umbrella for christmas. thx for the excellent video.
Its those tight tolerances that cause it to fail the water test. The water gets in but doesn't drain quickly and then the hydraulic pressures keep it from functioning. Probably if you gave it a coupla good shakes as you brought it out to break the vacuum so it can drain, it would probably work just fine.
when tim dropped a teaser about this the other night on hank stranges podcast,this is not what i expected.so,if you fall off your dune buggy with it your ok,but if you fall out of your boat,your screwed.informative and entertaining as usual.
Probably viable in most situations where you don't have to swim with it and keep the barrel pointg upp in a storm (doubht the problem will occur in anything but heavy rain seeing as you need a big ammount of water) so, police aswell i gues, which might be why a coupple of policeforces uses it.
Might be why the Seals haven’t adopted this. Makes you wonder about the problems ahead for other Sig military products. I was a die hard Sig fan before they became all American made (and that hurts to say.). So I guess you could loosen some tolerances and over gas it but then it would wear quicker.
The MPX among competition shooters has a notorious reputation for being a picky gas system. Which makes sense because it's a locked breach gun operating a short stroke piston only with pistol pressures in the gas. Must be very tricky to tune. Adding water is probably screwing the gas expansion up so it doesn't have enough force to push the piston back.
Didn't you have similar issues with the MCX when you did a puddle test? In that video you thought it might have been the recoil spring channels in the receiver, they are pretty small and tight.
Wouldn't've made much difference in this video but my opinion is that in the future you should re-run the elements test too with the port cover open becuase you can drop your gun when the port cover is open too.
Never not once ever had a failure out of my MPX-K, apparently short stroke gas piston system doesn’t like to be filled with water, obviously effecting how it cycles, maybe hydro locking the piston 🤷🏻♂️
I have a feeling it's from how short this version is. Its originally designed as a longer PCC with more length on the barrel. They probably initially tested the original and thought it was fine then chopped it down for the shorty and boom there you go. The longer version probably still has water issues, just less prevalent.
The dwell time would slightly increase, but the gas system itself is the same on all MPX barrels. I don't think the slightly increased dwell time would be enough to overcome the water in the piston tube. The water won't compress, so the gas will just take the path of least resistance and exit the barrel without cycling the action. The only hope is that the 16" barrel would have enough dwell time that the heat from the gas would evaporate the water in the piston tube, but I doubt that would happen and still have enough time/gas to cycle the bolt.
Well, this makes me wonder how the CMMG Banshee would fare. I wanted an MPX, but went with the Banshee because it was cheaper. Without a gas system to boff over the water,...I wonder how the rotary locking system of the Banshee would perform.
I vote we get a fine mist hose head and and spray you while shooting and see how it does... Side not I think this comes down to the fact that water does not compress and a piston relies on compression (less that in a car with guns but still has some play) shorter the stroke the more it matters so could be related to that
I was so scared I was laying in bed cuddling my mpx telling her that no matter what the test revealed I wouldn't sell her.
Only if it dont rain
😆 I tell all my guns I love them all and would never sell them.
Same
2 days later the gun is sold...😂
Hopefully you have a "rainy day" gun. 😉
🎵A spoon full of water lets the mpx go down, the mpx goes down, the mpx goes down 🎶
Give a thumbs up if you sang it in your inner Mary Poppins voice lol
🤣🤣
In the most pathetic waaaay.....
LMFAO
This is an underrated comment
MPX: you can’t defeat me!!
Mud/Sand/Dirt: No, but he can!! *Rain appears*
Perhaps only reliable in desert regions...not very good.
*Water, my only weakness!* 💦
@HachiZenki it's called vodka
Raki is Greek lol
MPX after having a spoonful of water poured into its barrel: I'm jamming. I'M JAMMINNNNNGGG
@@EtherFoxonly a spoonful!
@@joelerk6298 The Balkans and Greece love their Rakia! Polenar Tactical is from Slovenia.
#Unbreakable
I think the water is getting into the piston and until its cleared, it causes the bolt from operating. Think of it as hydro lock of the piston in the gas system and until it is fired a couple of times to clear the water it will malfunction. You get water on both sides of the piston. The piston makes it harder for the water to drain. DI guns would just blow all the water into the bolt and out into the action. Good to know if I lose my MPX in a boating accident and just happen to find it later. Great job MAC.
I wish I could put my wife's mother through the gauntlet. That Sea Monster is tuff.
😂
Bro, funniest thing I’ve heard all day. I was dying 🤣🤣
Same here... But perhaps a more brutal one. I hate that crazy old hag.
If she's under 400 pounds I'll bang that old battle ax for you ..... 🤔👍🏼😍👍🏼🐐💍🔨
Release the Kraken 🐲
SIG CEO: “No more of our firearms go to the MAC channel!”
So the MPXs are like gremlins. They're cute until you get them wet.
I love it! 😂
I’m surprised there are not more gauntlet episodes, I would watch every one put out. Thanks MAC
Now I want to se the B&T APC-9k and the SP-5k in the same situation, that's a really interesting result
sp5k gets my vote.
HK is the way.
That was a weird failure. And gold star on EVERYTHING else, including a double gauntlet...WTH ?
Every gauntlet gun needs a stump rating from 1 to 10
*Nearest thing to a Fallout 10mm SMG I have ever seen*
_>Big Iron Plays in background_
@Fui Gebhardt1 "Sleepytime" for the win.
@Fui Gebhardt1 no trouble. Naa was a GRA item.
Have a good day my dude.
I'm happy to come across Fallout players here..
If they ever release this in 10mm I gotta have it for this reason
I love seeing gauntlet tests again, these are my favorite videos from this channel
Who woulda thunk?! Water in the Gas system! Was not expecting that. Sig engineers are probably paying very close attention to this video right now.
Probably not, they are all. MCX!!!
If I know anything about Sig they'll say there are no issues while fixing it if enough people complain.
They should have tested this already. Instead they let the consumer do the testing for them
@@Spike-13 I don't think they didn't test it. They just think it's not problematic for the gun's intended purpose.
Considering this issue likely cost them the military contract, I don't think this video is really any news to them. It's more newsworthy to owners who wouldn't expect a tablespoon of water to cause their gun not to work.
At least I know the tear that rolls off my cheek from watching the scorpion fail will stop the sig. makes me feel little better 🤣🤣
very interesting
I’m actually really impressed with that performance. Thanks for the fun gauntlet tests vids!
It’s great that you ran the test with the cover open and then closed. Unbiased, fair testing. Great work! I wonder if Sig will make rolling changes in production, and claim that it always worked with water?
Doubht it, They 110% all ready know.
Their name sells their guns....colt anyone?
So anytime you face a person with an MPX....you can disable their firearm with a super soaker...
hahahahaha...
@Guess What? Who's dumb? I am simply noting that a little water sees to affect the this firearms gas system...
I'd like to see the B&T GHM9 tackle the gauntlet next.
APC9 also
Had a ghm9mm. Looked everywhere, can't find anything close to the problem I had. Mine was having double feed every mag, and the mag would come off without pressing the mag release after 1200 rounds.... Sold it after I got my mpx.
@@danielshen3438 That sucks dude. I've had mine for a little over a year and its been perfect. Fed it hollowpoints, FMJ, steel case, +P, it ate everything without complaints. My only complaint is that i can't put on a vertical foregrip without triggering the feds.
@@Serttok damn! Hahaha.
@@equuspallidus I think it was made to take a shot at the CZ Scorpion EVO.
Impressive, other than the water. Great test Tim!
I would like to propose an extra test of shaking the MPX vigorously after being submerged before firing. Can the hydro lock be cleared with only one shake? Two shakes? A full second of vehement swinging?
Would also like to see this.
I was thinking the same thing
No more than 2 shakes or you're playing with it.
@@bmstylee tehehehehe
I didn't think of it but good question. Have a Gen 2, 8" barrel version. If ya shake it more than twice tho..... Anybody know why SIG abandoned that model? Add a brace and slimmer handguard and better trigger and it serves it's purpose well. Guess now I know why it came with that little 8" umbrella and a huge Ziploc bag. L8r.
That is super strange. Wouldn't have foreseen this nor the Scorpion to perform the way they did.
Don't get the CZ bois started again.
@@zachconroy1443 What do you mean again. They haven't stopped running around with pitch forks and torches.
Standard operating procedure for an M-16 family of weapon is to pull back slightly on the bolt to break the seal on the breech and to allow the water to drain out of the barrel. Unless the barrel is cold hammer forged, firing with water in the barrel can cause damage.
The water is slowing down the bolt to where it is sluggish enough to not eject spend casing - the fact that it blew through the other tests is amazing.
Call Sig and see if they’ll start including a condom in the box with the MPX!
Two if you get deployed to China!
@@lancekilkenny3801 And a laptop...
They know their owners will buy any shit they put out, they take it in the ass raw dog, time after time. Sig owners shit pancakes.
Honestly, this Gauntlet series is my favorite set that you produce. Semi-scientific and interesting.
Man I had NO IDEA that water could block gas/air from moving through a piston system! Thank God for the ‘EL Gauntlet’ test to explain physics to us! Now we can act all surprised that water stopped the gas from entering the gas block which then doesn’t allow the piston to cycle. Lol hell I’m glad that MAC, and everyone else, got Sig to tighten up their QC and this version MPX ACTUALLY works to begin with!!
A single spoon full of water stopped it up, that is surprising. I've actually never seen a piston gun fail due to being submerged.
@@hwi7114 yeah because the gas ports on the top of the barrel of most guns so it would drain out before he shot it. This one has something that’s allowing the water to keep it blocked.
Navy SEALS immediately cancel their order for MPX’s 🤣.
Don't worry Sig will make a "Navy" edition for $1,000 more!
Tim i just had a random thought while watching this video. I remember telling my fellow firearm enthusiasts about you when I was a sophomore in high school. That was almost 10 years now!
The water is robbing the volume of gas! Interesting 🧐
Well we have a new firearms saying now. Along with "Keep your powder dry" we can add "Keep your MPX dry". Lol. :-)
This is why guns have a MAC clause in their warranty riders.
This is in the top 5 of ALL CZcams gun channels
Now we know how to counter mpx, just use water guns 🤣.
Now THAT is a great catch for Tim.
Mine worked flawlessly when I tried this same test (fully submerged in water till bubbles came out) I was a little worried about it after watching this so I tried it myself... I used sig elite performance 9mm hollow points during my experiment also a well broken in mag! I honestly am at a loss for words, but I’ve heard some weird stories about the sig mpx in the past. Maybe some quality assurance issues going on or luck of the draw lol
2 for 2 of Tim dunking on my two favorite PCCs...
Oh well, still love the Scorpion and MPX.
Just order the SIG micro umbrella and patent pending huge SIG Ziploc bag. Just found a backpack that my Gen 2, 8" barrel fits in without printing and now I gotta find a dang water proof one but thank goodness you found that weak spot. Hey, could attach one of those cans of air to it to blow out the gas tube if your do SEAL type missions or cant afford a poncho. My MPX is givin me THAT look. L8r.
From what I remember it was a bad idea to submerge an M60 in water as well. When the gas piston got wet it became a single shot until you pulled out the piston and dried it off.
OTB, haven’t heard that in 4 years, also, great test, thanks for the extended clarifying tests at the end.
MAC "If it ain't broken it will be."
In the Army we are told to aim down and pull back in the charging handle part way to break a seal created by the water.
Awesome job on finding out the water problem!
MPX sorry guys I can't boog today because it's raining
🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know where you'd find yourself in a submerged situation where youd immediately have to bring your weapon up and use it." Mac obviously hasn't seen the movie Crawl 🐊
i like to keep a Benelli M4 and BCM Recce 11 staged in the shallow end of the pool while swimming during summer months. i was going to add this MCX at the deep end, but now I have to rethink this plan entirely. i will also be asking for an umbrella for christmas. thx for the excellent video.
The Bruce Willis of guns....
😂😂😂
LMAO 😂😂😂😂
Yup. It is almost Unbreakable.
@@Snapper314 definitely not made of glass.... 🤓
@@Snapper314 maybe he should shoot it and see if it hurts it. Maybe simulate a train crash, aslong as it has a rain coat though it should be fine.
i hide all my pcc's in the toilet ready for intruders, so no mpx for me ; (
No muzzle up in rain, should be able to remember that lol
That intro music in the most feel-good tune since the Unsolved Mysteries theme song. Just, damn. Sped up to 1.25x, it's a whole lot more tolerable.
I'm curious to if you opened the chamber after submerging and gave it a couple of shakes if that would cure the malfunctions 🤔🤔
Man, if this was a side charger it would absolutely be top of the list for me.
ontop of making sure it doesnt get wet, make you do NOT feed it after midnight as well!!
I’ve owned mine a year now and runs great. So far... All though it never occurred to me to soak it... very interesting..👍🏼👍🏼 good to know
Really interesting results Tim, thanks for sharing. Would love to see how the Ruger PC Charger deals with the elements.
Sold my scorpion and mpx because of these tests. Nothing but B&T for me now
Its those tight tolerances that cause it to fail the water test. The water gets in but doesn't drain quickly and then the hydraulic pressures keep it from functioning. Probably if you gave it a coupla good shakes as you brought it out to break the vacuum so it can drain, it would probably work just fine.
when tim dropped a teaser about this the other night on hank stranges podcast,this is not what i expected.so,if you fall off your dune buggy with it your ok,but if you fall out of your boat,your screwed.informative and entertaining as usual.
I’d like to see if PWS’s long stroke piston system acts any differently with the water
Rumor is if you put a Glock sticker on it the thing will work fine
Probably viable in most situations where you don't have to swim with it and keep the barrel pointg upp in a storm (doubht the problem will occur in anything but heavy rain seeing as you need a big ammount of water) so, police aswell i gues, which might be why a coupple of policeforces uses it.
That thing needs a beefy vertical grip and a single point sling and itl be a beast.
I only get about 33 days of rain a year where I live so I’m not disappointed. 😂
Wait until I show this to my buddy.
Can you try it with the water again and add a suppressor? I'm wondering if the added dwell time could overcome the issue.
Wow! Thank goodness that my lack of scuba diving won’t impact my MPX. Haters gonna hate. I love my MPX K!
Great video. I haven’t had any issues with my mpx k....now I know its kryptonite.
Might be why the Seals haven’t adopted this. Makes you wonder about the problems ahead for other Sig military products. I was a die hard Sig fan before they became all American made (and that hurts to say.). So I guess you could loosen some tolerances and over gas it but then it would wear quicker.
The Timney trigger job I did to mine makes all the difference... anyone who knows the mpx knows the stock trigger is gritty!
And that is why I went with the ghm9 and tp9
Well it'll function just fine in the rain. Mike, from Garand Thumb proved that in his video.
Also could be water changing the pressures in the piston system
I wonder if charging the weapon allowing it to drain much like an AR would make a difference
If the water is in the gas block, no. The charging handle doesn't move the piston. Assuming the mpx is short stroke
If this was a DI system I bet it would have been flawless.
The MPX among competition shooters has a notorious reputation for being a picky gas system. Which makes sense because it's a locked breach gun operating a short stroke piston only with pistol pressures in the gas. Must be very tricky to tune. Adding water is probably screwing the gas expansion up so it doesn't have enough force to push the piston back.
Didn't you have similar issues with the MCX when you did a puddle test? In that video you thought it might have been the recoil spring channels in the receiver, they are pretty small and tight.
Wouldn't've made much difference in this video but my opinion is that in the future you should re-run the elements test too with the port cover open becuase you can drop your gun when the port cover is open too.
I have been waiting for this for years. MPX I know you can do it. Good luck.
Totally enjoyed that. I would hope some Sig Engineers just take a look at that, I'd love an MPX. I shot one once at a range demo about 6 years ago!
Performed allot better than I thought it would
Don't rely on that in a tropical battle setting for sure!😲
Been waiting for this one...
Never not once ever had a failure out of my MPX-K, apparently short stroke gas piston system doesn’t like to be filled with water, obviously effecting how it cycles, maybe hydro locking the piston 🤷🏻♂️
MELTING melting, Oh What a world what a WORLD!
Excellent test, Sig's engineers couldn't have done it better themselves, ha ha
I have a feeling it's from how short this version is. Its originally designed as a longer PCC with more length on the barrel. They probably initially tested the original and thought it was fine then chopped it down for the shorty and boom there you go. The longer version probably still has water issues, just less prevalent.
The dwell time would slightly increase, but the gas system itself is the same on all MPX barrels. I don't think the slightly increased dwell time would be enough to overcome the water in the piston tube. The water won't compress, so the gas will just take the path of least resistance and exit the barrel without cycling the action. The only hope is that the 16" barrel would have enough dwell time that the heat from the gas would evaporate the water in the piston tube, but I doubt that would happen and still have enough time/gas to cycle the bolt.
Should run the tec9 in the gauntlet. Just want put in work on racking the bolt
I'd be surprised if it could make it through the control without a failure.
@@0zmose I had one and it jammed like crazy without any foreign elements.
Really would love to see a HK mp5 vs USC test
Well, this makes me wonder how the CMMG Banshee would fare. I wanted an MPX, but went with the Banshee because it was cheaper. Without a gas system to boff over the water,...I wonder how the rotary locking system of the Banshee would perform.
we should re-name that gun "the reptillian" as it's only weakness is water, same as the reptillians in the movie 'signs'
Let's see a Ruger American pistol gauntlet test!! I think it would do very well
Glock 19x, fnx45, MK23 in the gauntlet would be a dream!
Need to try more tests with tap water with this gun, spraying, splashing etc
Yup! Love my MPX
You should do the gauntlet test with rifles. I'd like to see how the ARX does
Those results were very interesting!
Need to test, tried and true stuff like the MP5, UMP, UZI
I think with submersion if you don't need to fire immediately it would drain out but perhaps not
I vote we get a fine mist hose head and and spray you while shooting and see how it does... Side not I think this comes down to the fact that water does not compress and a piston relies on compression (less that in a car with guns but still has some play) shorter the stroke the more it matters so could be related to that