Varroa Mite Management - Drone Frames
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2018
- This is how I used a drone frame to try to trap mites in drone cells. The special green drone frame makes the workers draw out drone size cells for the queen to lay into... then the mites reproduce in the larger cells and the goal is to dispose of them all at once.
This is my first time using a drone frame. I recommend opening up several more drone cells to get a more accurate count of mites on the frame.
These frames are available at your favorite beekeeping supply store for $3 - $4.
Thank you for watching and commenting!!
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I know this is a bit of a weird comment, but I want you to know your videos have positive impact even beyond the beekeeping community! I've been stuck in cancer treatment for most of this year and I discovered that watching bee videos has a great calming affect on both my OCD impulses and general boredom in hospital. Your videos are so beautifully edited that you've become my favourite CZcams beekeeper! Thank you for putting all the hard work you do into posting these videos.
Shona Edwards This is one of the nicest comments I've ever read. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. Cancer f---ing sucks. I'm honored to know my little videos have helped you in some way. I wish you all the best in your battle. 👊
For me, I like calming piano music ~ czcams.com/video/rLMHGjoxJdQ/video.html
you may have to visit when you can.. good luck with your treatments, and keep watching.
Best wishes for a return to health, Shona! You are absolutely correct. These videos, in some way I can't quite explain, go beyond simple beekeeping. I think it is because @vinofarm isn't trying to teach us anything or preach at us about "The Plight of the Honeybee." (He'd be preaching to the choir, anyway) We are all just traveling along his path for a while, learning as he learns and enjoying the view. It's about the bees but in a very human way. So, yours is not at all a weird comment. I think many of us here feel the same way! Again, sending healing thoughts your way. :)
God bless y'all
No need to say sorry for slow uploads. Your stuff is 5/5 and worth the wait. Remember to have fun & enjoy the process.
Don't turn your vids into something you feel like you have to get done. Sucks the fun right out of it.
Kopsu True... but posting IS the fun part. I have two weeks of video I need to wade through to cobble together about 5 videos. That's no fun! I'm not going to skip over anything. I just feel way behind because new footage comes in every day. It's good to be busy.
Great healthy hives you have there. I read Varroa prefers center of the hive. Such healthy drones. I'd eat them all right there. I am finally starting my own bees this season, because of drones. I used to work with them, in my lean days.
Clever to use a drone frame to test. If I test and find mites I'll freeze, then treat the hive. If I don't find mites I'll put it back to hatch. I saw a presentation about breeding and the usefulness of drones. Since I'm starting to use hygienic queens, the drones carry the genetic makeup of the breeding stock.
I've been looking for a video everyday this week. Thank for the upload. 💞
Yay. I was just thinking a vid from Vino Farm would make this sunday so much better!
Fit from Fat I have about 5 more in the chute. Busy time. More filming than editing in the middle of summer, but it'll all come out eventually! Thanks.
Always nice to see a vino farm video ;D
HAPPY BIRTHDAY LITTLE DRONE!!!! 🐝
I was wondering what was keeping you so busy! I saw little bees on my subscription page and my day was instantly better! I can say I've heard of Drone Frames but never seen them used. I found this one super interesting. Looking forward to those catch-up videos!!
The only real loss by using this frame as you use it is the time the Queen is on the frame. Your new frame has lots of advantages, the first of which is less drones on it so less time for the Queen to spend. I'm a little surprised at my own lack of reaction to using the drones this way. I feel sorry for drones lol. Its a woman's world and they only have one useful function in it. Until now. Maybe they will evolve another useful function. Excellent video, as always.
Yes all the male does is have that one fun time with a new queen then he dies but at least he dies happy. As winter sets in the females push the males out into the cold, they are of no use, not even in keeping the females warm.
There is a shotgun pattern of missing brood, both in the side with a lot of emerged brood, and the second side, without. It's entirely possible those bees are yanking infected brood out & dismembering them before they hatch. This is exactly the behavior you'd expect from Varroa-sensitive bees. It's entirely possible your Italian hive is merely removing the Varroa while they're still in the cells.
While the Italian hive doesn't necessarily contain those genetics as explicitly as the VSH queen you sourced, it's not exactly as simple as all that: There are multiple VSH markers, and having more or less of them makes the bees more and less vigilant in removing defective brood. It's possible, in fact, to breed in *too* *many* of those markers, and the bees become so vigilant they start to exhibit compulsive OCD behavior and yanking perfectly healthy brood. Those hives don't last long.
Point is your Italian hive may very well be exhibiting precisely the sort of Varroa-resistance you'd want to see, in that shotgun pattern (imgur.com/Inb7RSx ).
That is an interesting thought. Thanks.
That drone appearing is just typical Balboa. So cool.
Great job. Very good mite management protocol.
Thomas Gordon Thanks for the support. I seem to be getting some pushback on this approach. A few people pointing out that this is a waste of resources and effort for the hive to make a whole frame of drones. That makes sense. I wonder what your thoughts are. I probably don't want to leave this frame in during leaner times, but the middle of the summer seems ok.
The Queen is going to make drones. And in my very strong/swarmy hives They got loaded up with Drones. I actually moved a frame that was mostly drones into another hive that had more brood space. You don't want your strong hive getting mites (and they are the ones less likely to anyway). What you are doing is a bonafide "Treatment Free" beekeeping method. One of about five. The others being "Brood Breaks" (doing splits), Using Small Cell (4.9 mil) foundation, using mite-resistant or Swarm survivor stock etc.
If you had chickens, you might give them that frame. Tasty noms!
Phyre Acid I scraped them off next to the bird feeder and they're gone the next day.
Yes! The birds love you. You're a modern day Disney prince!
humans can eat them too they taste like nuts apparently czcams.com/video/ppZRyMtK7Jo/video.html
Lot of balboa genes there 😏 I put one in one of my hives a while back but could never get them to draw it out. Will try again next year.
If you dont use 2 drone frames rotated out at overlapping intervals you give the mites the need to infest the worker comb .
The mites enter comb just before its capped so you need to keep drone comb thats being capped available at all times
It is SO hard for me to grasp the idea of unfertilized eggs hatching! :)
Steven Scott, me too! I believe them, I just don't understand it. Can some one who understands the science please explain? An unfertilized egg...?
With the insect from the order that contains ants. bees and wasps, (Hymenoptera) females have double the number of chromosomes as males. An ova that has been fertilized becomes a female. An ova that isn’t fertilized becomes a male. Queens have the ability to decide if an egg being laid is fertilized or not.
Since males only have half the number of chromosomes their method of producing sperm is different then with mammals. All of a males sperm is genetically the same. They all have the same chromosomes as the male. This males sisters 75% genetically similar as allowed to 50% which is normal with mammals.
This makes females 75% genetically similar in contrast to mammals where sisters are 50% genetically similar. I sometimes hate autocorrect
Thank you. An excellent explanation, and an even more amazing fact.
Parthenogenesis, baby!
I’ve been binge watching a Canadian Beekeepers Blog. He appears to have had good results using a double treatment. The conventional treatments in late summer, but a second in late autumn when there was no capped brood where the capping would protect the mites
David Sachs What do you mean by "conventional treatment"?
By conventional I guess I just ment the treatments I see with beekeepers in the USA with treatment in August primarily to control the mites before winter.
Thanks !
Are they not supposed to be placed in the #3 position? I've just started using these too! Great product, love your videos, keep them coming. Cheers!
I wonder if varroa mites could be spotted through x-rays...
Glad I live in Australia because we don't have varroa it seems very annoying
I did the same with drone frames in all of our hives. First frame checked was drawn fully on one side. Froze the frame and then checked and found no mites. Uncapped and returned to hive for next round.
I'd like to see some research to determine whether drone-culling as a Varroa control selects for Varroa that prefer worker brood.
Blaine Nay they already do though. Simply due to a drones nature. What this does is actually push them back towards workers as workers get to live in this scenario.
Have you looked into using oxalic acid so you can treat your bee's during the honey flow as from what I've seen is Apivar cant be used with honey supers and any frame that has been exposed to Apivar should be marked and not used for honey extraction, but then on the same site from Apivar they said they put 10 strips on a single brood box and it still was under tolerable levels. I just bought Apivar and plan on using it for fall-wintering the bee's and use oxalic acid vapor to treat the rest of the time unless it gets really bad then use Apivar.
Also saw a mite test "CO2 varroa Tester" that uses CO2 to knock out the bees and the varroa, supposed to be almost as accurate as rubbing alcohol and the bee's wake back up a few minutes later, might be something to look into to not kill 300 bees at a time.
Just found your channel and really loved this video. I just restarted beekeeping after a few years off and I'm considering using the green drone frames. I do have what may be a stupid question: once you saw there were no mites in your sample, why wouldn't you just put the frame back in the hive?
They don’t need all those drones. There were plenty on other frames. I don’t use the green frames anymore.
Crazy cause today we had a very bad storm ⛈
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I'm looking to try a new Varroa Mite treatment. Did the strips last fall. But lost a hive to the buggers. I recall in one of your videos you used a Vaporizer, But I do not recall the product you used in it. Been searching your channel for that video, but not showing up in search results. Can you please remind me of the product you used for the Vaporizer? Thanks!
I have never used a vaporizer. I use Mite Away Quick Strips or Apivar Strips.
@@vinofarm Alright, I swore I remember you said you switch between the two to prevent them from developing immunity. Maybe that was 628dirtrooster. I watch you both. Great stuff. Keep it up. Thank you.
well, now I know what bee mutilation muzac is like
So on the new foundationless trap, is the goal that they build out drone comb that then gets thrown out? How does one make sure the bees build drone comb there versus regular?
Wallace McKeel the stamped cell size on the foundation is larger. Bees make different size cells for workers vs. drones. The cells on the green frame are sized for drones.
Wallace McKeel - I think I misread your question... On the foundationless frame I added in to replace the green frame, the bees should build comb in the empty space. Most of the time, foundationless comb built in a spot like that (outside frame position) will be larger drone sized cells. There is a chance they will just fill it with honey, but it will most likely be laid with a good amount of drones.
Hey, do Varroa only breed in Drone Cells, or will the hive and breed in worker cells as well?
They will breed in any cells, but prefer big drone cells.
Do you keep drone frames in hives throughout the whole year? If not, when exactly do you have them in the hives? Thanks.
I think the best time would be for the summer or when mite loads are high. If you leave them in for winter they just fill them with nectar/honey.
@@vinofarm I have new hives this spring and I've been feeding this summer. Treating for mites now in August/September with Apivar. Hopguard didn't work in July.
So next year when I'm going to try for honey, when should I put the drone frames in here in NC with our 2 dearths in order to help with mites?
Also encouraging drone development in the drone frames and then taking it out...does this decrease swarm potential?
Thanks...you can tell I'm a new beekeeper.
Not sure if you've ever mentioned, but where did you get your wedding band? My husband really likes it!
Tabitha Amoroso He has a video up about the silicone rings czcams.com/video/-eK7TmxKE0s/video.html
bruhaha You beat me to it!
You got to be fast around here Jim!
Just wondering, where do Varroa mites come from, that is to say, where do bees pick up these mites?
They've managed to spread nearly worldwide into every single bee colony. (Except for bees in Australia, so far). They just pass from bee to bee inside the colonies. They reproduce inside the cells of the developing pupae and when the bee emerges, it's covered with varroa, which just rub off onto other bees. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_destructor
getting the varroa to infest the drone comb ,then destroying the drones can be effective for a few seasons,but then what is going to happen....you are now selecting for the varroa that prefer worker brood ,in the long run your hive will suffer as a result.treating is the better option because it doesn't select either one just burns the whole forest ...so to speak...love your channel...tom
I've had this comment a few times now. I had not thought of it that way, but it is something to think about. Do you have any articles you could point me to that might back up this theory? Have there been any long term studies about this? Thanks.
Sorry no studies to cite ...i heard it originally on youtube ...dont recall who ,sorry not my idea...then worked it out in my own head ..a thought experiment,if you will...it just seems logical to me.i spend a lot of time in my head ...if you run across any studies ,i would be interested....tom
Mr. Moore, I will go on the record and say that I must respectfully disagree with your statement about "selecting for mites that prefer worker brood". My understanding of the drone cell is that it may be as much as 30% larger then the worker cell. The drone also takes longer to hatch. Hives also produce a majority of there drones on the ramp up to spring. (an advantages time for the mite) My point of view is that these 3 facts have already selected for the mite that prefers the drone cell not the other way around. Some drone will always be produced in each colony. The Drone comb mite trap is a "mite management" tool and not a fix.
and back to you ,with all due respect...if the mites confined themselves to the drones,they would not be a problem,they infest the workers and the worker brood...they serve as vectors for virus and protozoans ...if they are preferring the drones best let em have at it ..and if you treat,then burn the forest ,let no stone be unturned...tom
Yay!!! What did you name your drone??
Rocky?
What becomes of all the hatched drones?
They will just run around the hive and eat up resources. The main problem, though, is that the frame they came out of was a trap frame and they could possibly be covered in varroa mites. The trick with this frame is to get the frame out when all the cells are capped (with the mites trapped inside) and destroy them. Luckily, it's early in the season and the mite level is low, so I probably didn't release a ton of mites into the hive.
How is the porcupine?
mavrickhunter13 I haven't put eyes on him in a few days but he's still tearing apart apple trees. Very frustrating.
This seems to work on everything but birds and rabbits for me: www.amazon.com/Cayenne-Pepper-10-Lb-Bag/dp/B000SAUVC4
So you don’t let all those drones hatch? Aren’t they beneficial to have? I don’t understand sacrificing them if they are healthy. Not being critical, I just thought you might let them hatch. I love your videos, you do a great job explaining everything and I am learning a lot!
lauran4784 Drones are always being made throughout the hive. This just concentrates a large number of them in one spot. The idea is to trap mites in the cells because mites supposedly like drone larvae. The hive does not need that many drones. They are sacrificed to help the hive deal with mites. That frame is a lure and a trap. I messed up and let some of them hatch. If it had been later in the season, those hatched drones could have let loose a mite explosion. The idea is to trap the drones under capped cells and destroy them.
The drones do not do any work in the hive. Their purpose is to go find queens to fertilize. Come late September the workers are going to kick them out anyway and let them die. But yes a healthy strong hive will keep producing Drones and they should
There's not much value to a drone to the hive itself. It does no work, eats more than a worker, takes up space, and during a mating flight, actually have a *negative* impact on any queen emanating from the hive! If they mate with a virgin queen from the same hive you've a high probability of getting a haploid-drone laying queen, which is calamitous for a hive and almost always results in supersedure.
Still there's no need to go out of your way to exterminate all drones, and I don't think Vino Farm is doing that. Just using drone comb as a canary in the mine for Varroa levels is fairly harmless.
Varroa like to settle in on drone larvae because that larvae take longer to hatch than worker larvae, which allows the varroa to spend two life cycles on a single larva before it emerges. I know one highly respected and successful beekeeper in Ohio who only uses drone comb to test for varroa, but it is a highly labor intensive mite management method, and as shown here, it can get away from you quickly. I've gone back and forth on whether or not to use this as part of my integrated pest management and have decided against it simply because I'm concerned about unleashing a varroa bomb in spite of my best intentions.
I've heard that. However I'm a bit skeptical the Varroa mites themselves select drones over worker larvae. I think it more likely that we simply see them being more fecund when they do select drone larvae, by dint of enjoying a longer reproductive cycle, because as you point out, drones take longer to emerge.
That doesn't change your conclusion, but the evidence Varroa actively select drones is...anecdotal at best. Beekeeping is lousy with marginally valid science treated as gospel. I'm not saying the evidence is bullshit, I'm just saying it's not yet conclusive.
doesn't it take the bees a huge amount of resources to make a whole frame of drones?
Perhaps, but I am only doing this in the three strongest colonies I have... All double deep brood nests with supers. So this is one out of 16 brood frames in the middle of summer, when the bees are strongest..
Sir I'm Indian.I m government certified bee keeper.My experience is more than six to five years.My practices is a paid delivers apis cerana .so I can work with you.plz tell me.
Whatever happened with your mutant queen?
I am editing several catch-up videos. I promise to get everyone up to speed over the next week or so. Sorry for the delay.
Why didn't you put the drone frame back to the hive?
HonzaJ I did. It went into the next hive over after I scraped it clean.
Well... I asked why did you kill the drones, why didn't you put the drone larvae back to grow up. That's what i meant.
HonzaJ Sorry if the video isn't clear. The drone frame is a trap for mites. The larvae is the bait. The idea is to let the mites attack the larvae down in the cells and get capped by the workers. Then you remove the capped larvae (with mites trapped inside) and destroy them. They are sacrificed. I opened a few cells to see the level of mites in the hive and saw that it was quite low. But you don't want to put the other larvae back in there because there could be mites in cells I didn't open.
Vino Farm You were cleare, i know this metod, but since you havn't found any mites, i thought it is OK to put the larvae back.
You need drones.
Oh... I have just noticed you have already answered similar question.
Keep it up, i like your videos, i started beekeeping this year with 4 nuck. We are getting to the end of season here in middle europe.
This is probably a dumb question..but couldn't you just treat all hives as mite-positive and place formic acid? Rather than sacrificing bees for multiple tests. Does formic acid harm the bees or something?
Formic Acid is quite harsh. I'd rather not put the bees through it if I don't have to.
I see, I didn't know that! The bees always appear unfazed by the formic acid.
Thanks! I'm enjoying your videos immensely and living vicariously through you!
To the people thinking this will make super mites that like drones, that only if the drones live. In this scenario they all die. This means surviving mites would be the ones that prefer workers.
But since it is a higher gamble to try to use workers to survive, the change to worker-lovong mites will be low.
Mites already prefer drones 1:8 give or take. That is how this works. Drones are resource intensive to the hive so you want some sort of balance. Too few sacrificial drones and varroa, too many and starvation.
I understand the drone concept, my only problem with that method is all the resources it took to make a drone. Drones are a luxury in a hive and they only produce when times are good. After all the effort and feeding and all the time that it takes to make a drone and after all that resources are spent, that is when we take the drone frame out to discard all that work. Not that I'm saying it wrong or anything. I know u love ur bees. It just a negative point on using the drone frame. I gotta get out and properly check my hives, i just hate that cause I suck at inspection and its more like a bull in a China shop.
That's why I hate those. If your timing is off your screwed
Feed this to your chickens. You have chickens?
No chickens. I scraped everything off and left it by the bird feeder. Gone the next day.
you shouild start wearing gloves bud
another thought...you are using up valuable space and resources ,producing wax,caring for brood ,brood that is fed taken care of by nurse bees,all valuable commodities, and tossing the result into the trash can ,can you afford that for the few mites you will be rid of,my opinion is your better off raising workers who are going to grow the hive...we are stuck ,lots of stuff we don't want in our hives ,small hive beetles ,wax moth,all those protozoans ,fact is we need hives that control these things with as little of our intervention as possible,we might need to re-queen or even let em die till we get bees that control these pests... tom