4. Our Differences Regarding Sexuality
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2022
- The Rev. Rob Renfroe explains how United Methodism's departure from traditional views on marriage and sexuality has created division within The United Methodist Church. This is the fourth video in a series. It is important to watch video 1 to gain a context for this video. You can access video 1 here • 1. The United Methodis...
What is the position of the GMC on divorced and remarried couples who Jesus says are committing adultery?
Thank you for standing on solid ground and explaining both UMC and the GMC. Praying for you 🙏
It has meant a lot to me to have someone fighting for our Methodist Church. It feels like so goes the culture of America, so goes the United Methodist Church. At a time when we need good strong Bible believing churches, we have churches that have turned their backs on the God of the Bible. As young people say today, finding their own truth.
Rob, I hope and pray the GMC sees fit to consecrate you as one of its inception bishops who earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, AXIOS, AXIOS.
Thank you Rob for sharing information about UMC vs. GMC in this video series. More people need to realize that there are many major biblical truths at stake here, so many people think the split is only about sexuality. Many conservative pastors don't realize the basics of what is going on with the split.
I recommended your videos in our church this morning. I pray all will listen carefully to the words. Thank you for taking the time to voice truth.
The Discipline of The UMC should be, must be upheld ,the the issue being discussed is incompatible with Christian Teachings is not going to change at any General Conference
I believe all denominations need to listen to these videos. Use them as a Small group Bible study. This divide will be in all denominations if we let our spiritual guard down.
Actually, it already occurred in most denominations 20-40 years ago. Since the late '70s, the Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Anglicans, and others have already split over this subject. Methodists are doing it now. Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, and others will eventually. It's just a matter of time.
It’s happening now in the RCC. The real problem with us is Catholics do not believe separation is an option. So we suffer a woke leftist Pope who has railed against traditionalists as if we were not of his flock and/or a diseased body calling us “rigid” and other unflattering names. Promoting Openly gay priests to positions of prominence, gutted the liturgy, and heretically allowed Pagan idols on God’s altar among other abominations. No one calls him to task but a few priests and bishops who are persecuted for speaking out. I for one am too old to go underground. If Pope Francis snuffs out the traditional Catholics and their worship I may be searching for another Traditional Church of one denomination or other.
Thank GOD i listen your message. Because like a new person in UMC I am noticing / gut feeling - something is “ wrong there “ I see “ rainbow” chains on neck on crosses on many people! I was asking my husband if I see what I thinking? He said probably not! But now I know I was right! No way I will accept this changes !!!!!
Thank you!!! And BLESSINGS 🙏❤️🙏
The rainbow is also a symbol associated with the Walk To Emmaus, which is a retreat some Methodists go on, so that may be the reason for it, but honestly who knows! Blessings
@@izzlebizzle Thank you 🙏☀️ is good to know!!!!
Well one day I will find out . For now I just can’t openly asking anyone yet. We a new to this Church, so I just observe. If our Church start preach about “ gy….. marriag.. “ - we just can’t except this!!!!!! We will have to find different CHURCH 🙏❤️🙏
@@izzlebizzle do you know how I can find out if our Church will remain UMC or will be GMC ?
And where we can find GMC if we have to change Church.
@@alenagilley4703 I feel you. Our church is going through the discernment process, but some churches have already made their decision if the majority is very clear. It may be good to ask your pastor what's going on to clarify!
Thank you for this series.
The Bible says that it’s a sin for a divorced person to remarry. Yet the Methodist church allows that.🤷🏻♀️
Thank you for this message!
Thank you very much for this video. The Church should not bless what GOD calls sin. Homosexuality is a sin and should not be celebrated 🙏🏾
Clear, concise, and God-honoring. Thank you for these videos!
Excellent video that breaks down the issues facing the UMC. The entire series is so educational and informative I wish all UMC congregations would watch it. Thank you. I do have a question on the wording of the GMC transitional book of doctrine and discipline that define marriage as a loving monogamous union between one man and one woman. With the LGBTQIA2S+ ideology dominating our culture - and is in fact a de facto religion - the definition of what a woman (or man) is, is seemingly non-definable. If a person simply SAYS they're a woman, then by society's new rules, that person is a woman in every way, even if they're a biological male. I'm afraid the same spirit that is dividing the UMC will use that a a wedge to bring the same divisive spirit to the UMC at some point.
It is interesting to see over 35,000 views but only 364 likes. I will be adding my "like".
Thank you for this video which provides the much needed information on the position of UMC and more importantly the GMC. I totally agree with your assessment of what’s necessary for the separation.
Where does the new Global Methodist Church stand on re-marriage after divorce for those who obtained a divorce for reasons other than infidelity? Can people who are re-married be ordained? Will the church sanction re-marriage?
Exactly
I ve not noticed any comments about prayer , which in addition to human efforts, decisions, thoughts, actions. , is another way to learn God s Will along with scriptures and to seek God s Guidance before taking any actions in either direction .God is, I m sure, obviously well aware of. What s going on in the situation . There s a reprieve. In the postponement of the next General Conference for lots and lots of prayer which no doubt there ready has been , to correct the pth of bad news in the UMC Hierarchy where the rebellion against scripture and The Discipline of The UMC ..
I pray that Rev Renfroe and his followers will someday understand that Christion members of the LGBTQ community were created with their unique orientation. For those who question this, ask us! You have nothing to fear
Michelle lowry
Interesting note.... I am a methodist from Colorado. My mother worked for the Rocky Mountain conference of the United Methodist Church. In the 1970s My mother worked for Bishop Melvin Wheatlet, whose son was gay and who in 1972 ordained the 1st gay pastor ever in the United Methodist Church in the United States.. Be that as it may, Thank you for these videos. I hear you loud and clear. And I know which path I will take thank you so much. The Lord is my rock and my savior and always will be.
Which way?
Rob: What is the name of the book you were referring to that I think you said you authored with another person.....one about homosexuals not being born as such. Share the title with me if you could and thank you for your thoughts and information. What a tough time we have had and will continue to have and God bless you and your work.
The book is titled: Are We Really Better Together: An Evangelical Perspective on the Division Within the UMC.
@@robrenfroe8083 thank you for your reply, I had the same question.
I have been searching for a church that is based on the teaching of the Bible. I really do not know how to found one? How do you know if the Methodist church is traditional or progressive? Can I ask the church is that appropriate. I live close to the United Methodist Church of Whitefish Bay? I hope you can help me. Thank you God Bless
Where is Whitefish Bay? Yes, it's appropriate to ask!
A better question, I think, is whether a church is guided by a General Conference or Assembly. If it is, it is subject to a host of problems. Each congregation is better off functioning independently guided by elders (and deacons) who adhere to the to holy scripture. General Conferences and the like are created by men; you won't find them in the New Testament; or in the order of worship. There ARE churches who have figured this out; longstanding churches.
@@davidcawrowl3865 As a former Baptist, I have to disagree on the congregational model being better. Locally elected elders and deacons typically become beholden to cliques and personal grievances and wealthy members' huge donations. I was at three separate Baptist churches over three decades. And they all ended up being either snake pits of political in-fighting or rubber stamps for everything the pastor wanted. Or both. I was happy to join a Methodist church that had a system outside the congregation holding it accountable.
@@davidcawrowl3865 Yes Jesus should be the head of all churches.
Thank you for this message…it’s very explanatory.
Thank you for clarifying how the GMC will treat those who identify as LGBTQ+ and who try to remain obedient to Scripture. That clarification was needed and much appreciated
Wow ... Isaac is quite the interesting Character.
Indeed.
Good presentation
@0:23 only two options to remain Methodist? Why no mention of the Southern Methodist Church?
The real problem is not this or that.
It is disbelieve. Jesus says:
Concerning sin, because they do not believe on Me.
Prayer, I Haven t noticed any comments about prayer with. Prayer. ,another way to know. If God s Will, and. his guidance all very, very much needed in addition.to all the human effort, decisions, actions. Opinion
The vote of the General Conference
in St.Louis may affirm the 2019 vote . Impossible? just as a reminder , all things are possible with God. Belief / olinion
Why have some comments been deleted?
Hello Reverend Renfroe,
Thank you for your videos. I am a married straight man and have been a Christian since the 1970s. I have been a Methodist for the past 20 years and my wife has been a Methodist all of her life. Following Paul's instruction in 2 Timothy 2:15 gives me great joy. Daily bible study and prayer are my passion.
Like yourself, I believe that Jesus is the Lord of all and the savior of the world, Also, as you do, I believe the Bible is the living God's inspired word.
I want to better my understanding of the traditional Methodist teachings (the Global Church); to do this sir, I need to know which scriptures in the Bible you base your position on homosexuality. I thank you in advance sir for providing the scriptures.
Thank You,
Jim
I’m sorry 🎃😅 F y
"From the beginning of creation God made them male and female." Mark 10:6
@@petersisler1398 Galations 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
I would hesitate to say that the Free Methodist denomination, the Wesleyan Church and the Church of the Nazarene are not worthy of consideration of someone who remains true to the Bible and Wesleyan traditions. So why create a Global Methodist Church when the Wesleyan tradition is still holding strong in well-established denominations?
Generally Agreed! However, I believe you sre wrong in saying we only have two choices. Those being the UMC or GMC as Methodists. There are many other branches of Methodist Wesleyan Churches, and Biblical, Arminian and Wesleyan Fellowships, both Denominational and Non-denominational available that can provide options, as well as connection.
The present statement of the UMC correctly speaks to the Biblical admonishments about incompatibility regarding homosexuality. The future does not look good towards what is likely to come in 2024.
Sounds like the GMC will use a simple way to express its perspectives by using a Genesis, Original Plan statement to speak to the subject. I feel that the present UMC statement is superior, and concerned that maybe statements similarly used by some other Church Groups to that of the GMC go beyond the Bible in what it addresses, when viewing it as an entire Book, not just the Book of Genesis only. We must be careful not only to hold to Scripture, but to understand all of Scripture, not speaking to elements of Church Tradition to the excludion of the entire Bible, and while at the same time voicing the Original Standard.
Thank You for tackling a difficult area in your video!
Just as homosexuality so is divorce. Where is the outcry?
I agree that we do not take divorce seriously enough. But there are some differences. We hold premarital classes to prevent divorce. We counsel couples who are struggling so they won't get divorced. We have classes for them afterwards so they will grow from that experience and not become divorced again. And no one tells us "I was born for divorce, you should bless it even if I practice it over and over. And if you don't, you're a divorce-aphob." Most people who are divorced admit there was a failure and they don't want to repeat it. They don't ask us to celebrate it and encourage them to keep on the same track.
@@robrenfroe8083 how many divorced and remarried folk will be clergy in the GMC? The Scriptures are clear, Rob.
Because It's not about what the Bible teaches or Jesus or your interpretation. It is about a lack of compassion, humility, arrogance, the sin of 100 percent certainty, excluding others, misogyny, bigotry, patriarchy and deep indoctrination preventing people from believing the experiences of others and the harm inflicted by the church. Until you read the Bible through the lens of the oppressed you will not understand. It's easy to accept toxic teaching when it suits you as a privileged white heterosexual male. This is why slavery and Jim Crow laws we're upheld for so long. This is why we had innocent people burned as witches, this is why we had indigenous people slaughtered. All in the name of God.
Is a wife to continue to live with a consistently unfaithful spouse?
I ve seen some numbers. The total far, is. 5 and the total churches unaffiliating fro.the UMC in North Texas , where I live and go to my church , is 1!.No wonder I was , and am shocked to hear and read all of this.about split g, dividing , leaving. The UMC .Obviously not all churches are splitting or dividing .Obviously so.far in Texas ,band North Texas, as is The newspaper .in which reading all this disturbing news is in North Texas ,where less than the number of churches leaving is being discussed . My church home is thriving , and not going anywhere s
With the next General.Confrtence. postponement , there s a reprieve in which to pray and.seek God s Will.and Guidance before taking a step in either direction . The General Conference next year in 2024,.the 2019. Vote in St Louis can still be reaffirmed . Impossible ? As just a reminder, All things are possible with God. Belief/opinion
“What the Lord God has joined together, let no man put asunder.”
That is Jesus’s only explicit comment on sexuality and family. Divorce must be disallowed in all Christian churches. All persons who have a living spouse but are “married” to another person must separate from that “spouse” immediately. Church officers and pastors must enforce Jesus’s command.
You don't have time in this video to go in depth on these views? Why not? Why not put it all out there?
Rev. Renfroe you state "that none of us believe that our sins of greed or lust or pride are less offensive to God than homosexual relations." Yet, I am sure that you are quite willing to accept as church members those who have greed or lust or pride. If you did not accept them your church or any other, for that matter, would have no members. Most everyone has greed or lust or pride. Why will your church accept those individuals but not accept those that have homosexual relations? You will have an answer, but it cannot be one that distances you from your homosexual prejudice. (As an aside, I am a United Methodist. I, personally, have no friends, no family, nor do I know anyone who, to my knowledge, is a homosexual.)
You weren't listening. The global Methodist church will continue to welcome all sinners in their church, however the Holy bible does not allow practicing same sex couples to hold positions of teaching preaching or leading in the church. Just like they wouldn't allow an active practicing unrepentant child molester rapist or sex trafficker to hold a position in the church. All of it together in one basket is lust and fornication. Maybe this is the real problem plaguing all churches. The last commandment was the most important- don't covet what somebody else has, is or does. Covetousness is the root of all those sins God despised in Romans.
I belive that the GMC 's standpoint is that we all have sins and will love each other in those and accept each sin, but as Bible following Christians, we also do not condone sins. We will not parade the sin as being acceptable actions just like we would if someone openly lusts, greeds, is an adulterer, etc. In that we love all people and understand that it is through Christ that all sins are forgiven but as a moral body we do not promote the act of any and all sins.
I don't think it is matter of accepting sinners; it is a matter of saying these sins are not okay.
Romans 1:26-27 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
You are mistaken. There is prejudice against gay conversations in the Methodist Church and rightfully so. Sex of any kind is a private matter, not to be discussed before innocent ears and the hurt you may cause them. The problem is not sexual matters but that sexual matters are being made public in church or Christ ian circles.
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
We are all in need of a Savior. Not one of us is better than the other.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (also Psalms 14:3, Isaiah 64:6, to name a few).
I believe in everything except the part about gay/lesbian. I'm quite conservative and prolife but I know people who were born gay/lesbian and never were assaulted as a child yet they still feel that way. I couldn't imagine (being straight) told I had to never have sex with the only person I'm attracted to.
I know the old testament says how wrong it is but that's the biggest thing to me. They don't have to be allowed to preach or be leaders in the church but saying they can't be with one person for life that they are only attracted to is difficult for me to grasp.
I think transgender is mental illness but homosexuality isn't.
It's hard to find a Christian belief that doesn't allow the full liberal agenda with LGB people. I don't want pets taking communion or Trans preachers. It's like strictly conservative or far left there is no in-between.
I was looking at ELCA but then realize how left they are. Then I look at UMC and like that they allow LGB people but see they also go far left.
Guess this isn't the right place to ask what Christian religion closely mirrors my beliefs. Sounds like the new Methodist is almost identical to my original Christian church beliefs.
Jesus said to the woman, neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.
Actually Jesus did address sexuality in one place: "From the beginning of creation God made them male and female." Mark 10:6
Why does the GMC limit marriage to monogamy? There is no limit on number of wives anywhere in the Bible. David, "a man after God's own heart", had a concubine.
David also committed adultery with Bathseba and had Uriah, her husband killed. David was very human even though he had a strong faith in God. When he was faithful to God, the power of the Holy Spirit was with him, when he wasn't he was rightly punished.
@@eileenthrift8259 but having multiple wives is never included as being a sin or against God. Slavery isn't ever rejected in the Bible either.
@@tlw6932 show me in the Bible where monogamy is stated to be a sin. (For the record, I absolutely believe monogamy is a sin. It's just not one you will find listed in the Bible.)
@@chaseellefson4726 I understand what you are saying. Sometimes humans mess up what God intended. It isn't that the Bible leaves out a long list of what God considers to be sin or even that God tolerates sin but that human nature is to sin. In order to reconcile humans who "repent and turn away from sin", the Father sent His Son to pay for all sin. We, then, are "free from the power of sin and death". The reading of Scripture is probably the most important avenue to learning about God, what He desires from us, and how we can love him with all our strength, mind, heart and soul. Thank you, brother, for your thoughts. God loves it when we use the mind He gave us to do the right thing.
@@eileenthrift8259 I agree with you. Sin is a heart thing, not about breaking a rule on a list. I think the (conservative) church has progressed too far in regards to sin being legalistic. Legalism is exactly the burden Christ came to remove from the church.
The Bible says homosexuality is a sin. Who are yo in to say Gods word is wrong.
Who can deal with the gay bishops,pastors Assume. T these leaving The UMC that no ody is higher than a bishop.so.if VY bishop.. nobody. can do anything about it. if remembering God from last week s. Church service , nobody higher than a bishop.. Answer of course is God. . He can do something about the problem ..Belief.
Amen🙏
I'm a retired school teacher. When I began my career, special education children were allowed in the regular classroom for some activities but excluded for others. They were considered the same but different, and they were certainly not allowed to marry and reproduce. By the end of my career, special education children, by law, could not be excluded from any activity, and now they are encouraged to marry and have children when medically appropriate. My regular education students learned to love, respect, and support them in every way. We even had literature to support the effort with Of Mice and Men and Flowers for Algernon.
Your GMC reflects the ideas and preferences of your adult population. Young people of today do not understand the exclusion of any group identified as "the other." Black, Latino, Native American, LGBTQ, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Muslim, and yes, even Christians (who make up only 31.5% of the religious people in the world.) Your beliefs are stuck in your perceptions of today's world like the former educational leaders. You can appease your current church populations with a same but different LGBTQ policy, but how will you gain support of tomorrow's youth, of which 70% have no problem with LGBTQ people or their marriage?
I beg you to look to the Southern Baptists who followed this same path. You'll find the slow death of a once proud denomination and major scandles around the very topic they tried to eliminate.
Bye
The Bible is God s Word ., and it s the Last Word.
You are way too concerned with other people's sexuality and wanting to punish people.
This is hypocritical at best. If God made gay people, and I believe he did, then he made provision for them to love each other.
@WatchtheWatchmaker wow, that's pretty perverted or at least bias driven. I never said anything about anal sex. I do believe the church should recognize their ability to love each other.
@@lyndalu47 the gifts that God has given is great, and love is the greatest. I don't know how you can deny anyone's ability to love another, even when it falls outside of your parameters. People get so hung up on the sexual part of a relationship that they can no longer see the love in the relationship. As far as your other comparisons, you're conflating unlawful, hateful, and mental addictions to try to prove your point.
Fake news
Since you choose to judge people based on their preference for life partners, may you'd be prepared to let others judge you for your preferences? Would you also want to start telling others about your sexual behaviors, your preferences, your experiences and how you treat any sexual partners? Would it really be in our best interest for everyone to think that sexual behaviors or partner preferences are the sole reason to decide whether or not we should work together to solve the problems in the world? It seems really strange that you have all of this hatred for others and yet believe that somehow you are ministering to others. Do you believe that religion is composed of hierarchies of relationships? Are bishops better than you? Are you better than your congregation? Does that position you to hold your congregation as not as good as you are and thus you need to leave the congregation behind? Jesus taught that we are all the children of God and that there is no hierarchy of order other than the least will be first. Since you are leaving the least behind, that implies that you've already been ignored by Jesus. It seems like you are struggling to make yourself feel good about yourself by making the worth of others less than you. That sir, is a clinical form of mental illness! Please seek help so that you can be welcomed by our lord at the table of Christianity!
This is propaganda, Rob. It is full of half truths and lies. Please do better.
Please show me where I'm wrong.
Please tell me what the other 1/2 is then.
"If we want to remain Methodist, we have two options: one is the Global Methodist Church which believes that the Bible is God's word and Jesus is the Lord of all and the Savior of the world, the other option is the post-separation UMC which one bishop has said will become more liberal in its views and its practices. The only question is how fast and how far it will go."
This is an egregious lie. It is false witness. It is disparaging. It is fear-mongering. It is propaganda.
Plenty of faithful members and leaders of the UMC believe our Scriptures are God’s word! We weekly form sermons around its passages, we wrestle with it daily, we *very literally* give thanks to God after its reading in our services. To suggest otherwise is simply not honest. We may disagree about interpretation but that is very much different than what you assert here.
Your second lie is worse! Your suggestion that a post-separation UMC does not and will not believe in Jesus as Lord of all and Savior of the world is a clear indication you have spent VERY little time talking to anyone not aligned with your ideological perspective. Instead, you have lumped your enemies in with any outlying practices in an attempt to distort a listener’s view. Certainly you wouldn’t want to be judged by the ideological right’s outliers and their practices, correct?
These are lies. United Methodists still pray daily for God’s guidance, we pray for the Scriptures to be illuminated, and we pray God’s will be done through the hearing and preaching of these texts. We trust in faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ for our salvation and the salvation of the world.
@@robrenfroe8083 ^ see above.
@@jbmanning i don't indicate that there won't be UMs who hold to an orthodox faith but the UMC will be a church that allows its pastors, bishops and seminaries to promote heresy. It already does and it will only get worse.