John, thanks for making this. Some of your comments about drummers and guitar players had me rolling on the floor. We went with the "plug and play" approach using the BOSE L1 PRO 32. I decided we wouldn't play gigs unless we could spend less time setting up and tearing down (especially since I am the sound man as well as the guitar player). I can get everything in my car and set it up fast. I admire your pursuit of premium sound! Looking forward to your backing track lessons.
Hey man, thanks for the bi-amp info! I'm 17 years old and I got a couple older JBL SR4733A's that I wasn't sure how to connect, I wanted to know how exactly the bi-amp stuff works and now I know. I'm glad I found this video otherwise id be clueless. Thanks again!
Nice! The speakon port has +1/-1 and +2/-2 NL4 type input. You need speakon cable with 4 wires in it (4 pole). Take note of the colors of +1, -1, +2, and -2 wires. One end leave it alone. The other end needs to split to 2 speakon 2 pole plugs. +1/-1 colored wires goe to +1/-1 on on the one plug, and +2/-2 colored wires go to +1/-1 on the other plug. Set the speaker to biamp, plug in the unchanged speakon plug to the speaker and plug the +1/-1 plug into the higher powered amp, this will drive the 2 woofers, plug the +2/-2 plug into a different lower powered amp, this will power the tweeter. 2 amps should be used, one for the woofers R/L and one for tweeters R/L. 2 amps to run these, hence BiAmped. Or just buy one of these www.ebay.com/itm/133013237068?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338678874&toolid=20006%26customid%3Ds%253AGS%253Bgc%253A61ae8fdf141a1851fb2ceb1311ff6dee%253Bpt%253A1%253Bchoc%253A1&customid=s%3AGS%3Bgc%3A61ae8fdf141a1851fb2ceb1311ff6dee%3Bpt%3A1%3Bchoc%3A2&msclkid=61ae8fdf141a1851fb2ceb1311ff6dee
Thanks John for that explanation. I am a big fan of yours now and enjoy all your videos. Great information. I want to be your new bass player when you come to Vegas. Leave your guy at home he takes up room on the drive and is not needed when you have me. :) Best, Tod
Thank you for your point of view. I think I'm probably in the same boat as you....I'm a 60 year old drummer....been playing since I was 13. I've owned sound equipment all my life. Here is where we differ....you say you get compliments on your sound... I'm going to guess that it's not because you have a passive system....it's because you all know how to play and keep your stage volume down and tight. There's no way I'm going to pack around 100 lb mains. Keep playing!
You wanna show how you made your system connection and as well as setting up the driverack pa2 (especially setting up the crossover) in your next video? Thank you.
Hey OB (all O’Briens are OBs)… ever encounter hooking TWO Soundcraft mixers together to double up? I’m currently upgrading my old Behringer to a Soundcraft Ui16… which is plenty for now. But can I add another when I finally get more $$$? I’m thinking we could do this through Spdif or ADAT, or even Ethernet. Main issue getting clocking right??
The UI16 has a second Ethernet port, but I do not believe that you connect them. I think that the second port is parked and not in use. However, with the UI24R you CAN cascade the mixer via Ethernet. I hope that this answers your question. I have been called OB all my life!! LOL!!
John thank you for your time in explaning this better to protect the audience ears. can you tell what apps or program you use to raise and lower the sound on all the Hi, Mids, and Lows. thank you for your response
Hi Ivan. Thanks for the kind words! The app is the dbx Driverack PA2 app. However, it works with the dbx Driverack PA2 hardware. At the time of this video, that piece of gear was $279. Now, it is $509! We tri amp our system with the old skool amp racks and passive speakers. However, you can accomplish this separation without the driverack and app. This can be done by putting the subs on an aux channel with a low pass filter set at about 150hz and mains with a high pass filter with the same crossover point (150 hz ish), This would be a bi amp situation, but a well balanced system delivers more auditory power without needing a great deal of volume. Here is the driverack PA2 (now very expensive but well worth it since you just send the R/L signal and it splits the signal and assigs crossover slope and point) www.amazon.com/dbx-DriveRack-PA2-Management-Processor/dp/B00H90W3AE
No, it is 2 hours (that means 2 hours from unload to sound check). We have everything preconnected and we just run the lines to the speakers. I have active subs now, and they are a PITA since you have to run both electrical and audio lines to the speakers. We sold the passive subs, so our current setup is slightly longer with the active subs. Oh well.
Thanks for the question. Subs = 2 Pole +1/-1. The tops are 4 Pole active crossover Horns +2/-2, the 2 15” +1/-1 for the 3 way tops. These Mpro subs can be wired 4 pole.
I have a question please. I’m a mobile DJ looking at purchasing one of these to further tailor/enhance/limit front of house sound. The remote app also appeals to me. My system is 2x EV EKX-12P active tops and 2x EV EKX-18SP active subwoofers. The DSP control on these speakers have the option to system-match the crossover i.e. the high pass for the tops can be set to EKX-18SP (or other EV models) and the low pass for the subs can be set to EKX-12P (or other EV models). Would I be able to route the signal flow/configure the settings in the DriveRack so the above is maintained? I don’t want the DriveRack crossover controls to supersede the speakers’ system-matched settings. N.B. The outputs on EKX subwoofers are hardwired as a thru output (no DSP out) i.e. they’re always sending a full range signal (see this video explanation - EV ELX200, EKX & ETX Crossovers | How they work and why they are not good options for column arrays - CZcams). Any help appreciated.
Great question! The Driverack PA2 can be configured to bypass the crossover. Crossover is only one aspect of speaker balance. You have level and eq to deal with (just as important, if not more important). In that case, you can use the EQ features and level controls with the limiters inside the unit (which are excellent in my opinion). The outputs of the Driverack are High-R/L, Mid-R/L and Low R/L. This is to support mono-amped, biamped or triamp paradigms. In your case, I would set the DriveRack PA2 to a biamp paradigm which uses the High and Low outputs. Connect subs separately to R/L low and Tops separately to High R/L on the back of the DriverackPA2. Don’t go directly from mixer to speakers (and don’t daisy chain them with the full range pass through on the speakers) Set lows to run mono (not stereo) using the Driverack interface, and tops to run stereo. Get a decent RTA Mic to use at each venue and use the Wizard to set Level and EQ for that particular setting. Be sure your speakers are placed exactly as you plan to leave them for the show. Then use the level assist and eq assist. Be sure to get a windscreen for the RTA mic and try to set up before the environment gets too noisy. The wizard will literally remotely walk you through with graphics of where to place the RTA mic. Again, this wizard does not set your crossover. That is up to you to do on your speakers (if you bypass the crossover block). The Driverack will tell you to turn up or down each set of speakers until they are perfectly balanced. Even if you disagree with the result, I would not fiddle with the eq or levels after setting them. I have done that, and discovered the DriveRack to have been correct over my ears (Like my ear causing me to think there is too little base or too little treble or that the subs are too quiet). Whenever I mess with it, it sounds amateur (super loud bass, or piercing razor sharp highs, which is amateur to say the least). Also, I use the snake AUX sends to route the DriveRack to the front of the stage and then just 4 XLR’s, 2 going to each side. This maintains the bass mono and top stereo. Bass hits hard and the separation of the tops via stereo sounds rich. Whenever I stick with the DriveRack wizard results I frequently get feedback from the venue “We have not heard a mix that good ever before!” If the hirer wants to run things quieter, the DriveRackPA2 makes keeps the mix rich and fat, and if they want it pumped up, you will notice that the speakers stay balanced throughout the range of your changing output intensity.
Hi John, I’ve got another question if you don’t mind please (sorry I’m not very technical)… With you saying not to daisy chain the speakers with the full range pass through output, how will the system-matched crossover be maintained between the tops and the subs if they’re not linked together? My current signal flow (left + right channels) is *mixer output* to *sub input* then *sub output* to *top input*
@@GazMakaveli The DSP in your speakers are per speaker and do not communicate with other speakers via daisy chain. Same goes with the subs. The crossover you set does not get any crossover information via daisy chain. It is only set per speaker. That is why I would use the dbx DriveRack PA2 for everything. Here is why. A common mistake with people using crossover is that they (for example) will set the crossover on the sub to 80Hz. Logically, they would set the tops to a high pass crossover of 80Hz. Bad idea. The crossover of the tops should be 85 to 90 Hz because the overlap of the fall off of the crossover point creates a spike (and feedback potentially) from 70Hz to 90Hz when summing both speakers at their crossover slopes. So, to create a smooth overlap between crossover points there needs to be a gap in the crossover settings. EV speaker-presets in your tops and subs will do that for you. Per speaker, nevertheless, and not via daisy chain. What the DSP inside each speaker is missing is 1) Eq per venue 2) Sound Level matching per speaker per venue 3) Sub delay. Your crossover settings remain set without daisy chaining, so there is no need to daisy chain, but the DriveRack will help you adjust the loudness of your tops and subs to fit the venue. The DriveRack has sub delay included (I set it at like 3.5ms) becaue the subs are on the ground and slightly closer to the audience, but this applies more to bigger systems. So, I would say use the crossover per speaker and use the eq/level settings from the DriveRack. You don't need sub delay, but it can help if you detect dead spots. Feel free to keep up the questions! Thanks for asking!
@@CaliforniaCreedence Thank you John. A DBX distributor here in the UK has said whilst you can't technically bypass the crossover in the PA2, you can open up each band to receive the full frequency band and allow the crossover to take effect in the speakers DSP. i.e. select a band -> move high pass to 20KHz and move low pass to 20KHz -> repeat for the other bands. Is this correct/sound advice?
John, thanks for making this. Some of your comments about drummers and guitar players had me rolling on the floor. We went with the "plug and play" approach using the BOSE L1 PRO 32. I decided we wouldn't play gigs unless we could spend less time setting up and tearing down (especially since I am the sound man as well as the guitar player). I can get everything in my car and set it up fast. I admire your pursuit of premium sound! Looking forward to your backing track lessons.
Hey man, thanks for the bi-amp info! I'm 17 years old and I got a couple older JBL SR4733A's that I wasn't sure how to connect, I wanted to know how exactly the bi-amp stuff works and now I know. I'm glad I found this video otherwise id be clueless. Thanks again!
Nice! The speakon port has +1/-1 and +2/-2 NL4 type input. You need speakon cable with 4 wires in it (4 pole). Take note of the colors of +1, -1, +2, and -2 wires. One end leave it alone. The other end needs to split to 2 speakon 2 pole plugs. +1/-1 colored wires goe to +1/-1 on on the one plug, and +2/-2 colored wires go to +1/-1 on the other plug. Set the speaker to biamp, plug in the unchanged speakon plug to the speaker and plug the +1/-1 plug into the higher powered amp, this will drive the 2 woofers, plug the +2/-2 plug into a different lower powered amp, this will power the tweeter. 2 amps should be used, one for the woofers R/L and one for tweeters R/L. 2 amps to run these, hence BiAmped. Or just buy one of these www.ebay.com/itm/133013237068?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338678874&toolid=20006%26customid%3Ds%253AGS%253Bgc%253A61ae8fdf141a1851fb2ceb1311ff6dee%253Bpt%253A1%253Bchoc%253A1&customid=s%3AGS%3Bgc%3A61ae8fdf141a1851fb2ceb1311ff6dee%3Bpt%3A1%3Bchoc%3A2&msclkid=61ae8fdf141a1851fb2ceb1311ff6dee
I made my own because I am cheap.
Thanks for the energy 😉
Thanks John for that explanation. I am a big fan of yours now and enjoy all your videos. Great information. I want to be your new bass player when you come to Vegas. Leave your guy at home he takes up room on the drive and is not needed when you have me. :) Best, Tod
Ha ha!! You got it!! We just had a pretty epic weekend. I love sharing the fun if I can!
Cool and very interesting even for this "dummie".
Thank you for your point of view. I think I'm probably in the same boat as you....I'm a 60 year old drummer....been playing since I was 13. I've owned sound equipment all my life.
Here is where we differ....you say you get compliments on your sound... I'm going to guess that it's not because you have a passive system....it's because you all know how to play and keep your stage volume down and tight.
There's no way I'm going to pack around 100 lb mains.
Keep playing!
Ha ha!! You are right. My brother is a drummer. He is 64 and says the same.
And I love my DBX PA2
@@ludman2299 Yes! It takes all the work out of having to Eq and balance the speakers for a venue
You wanna show how you made your system connection and as well as setting up the driverack pa2 (especially setting up the crossover) in your next video? Thank you.
Hey OB (all O’Briens are OBs)… ever encounter hooking TWO Soundcraft mixers together to double up? I’m currently upgrading my old Behringer to a Soundcraft Ui16… which is plenty for now. But can I add another when I finally get more $$$? I’m thinking we could do this through Spdif or ADAT, or even Ethernet. Main issue getting clocking right??
The UI16 has a second Ethernet port, but I do not believe that you connect them. I think that the second port is parked and not in use. However, with the UI24R you CAN cascade the mixer via Ethernet. I hope that this answers your question. I have been called OB all my life!! LOL!!
John thank you for your time in explaning this better to protect the audience ears. can you tell what apps or program you use to raise and lower the sound on all the Hi, Mids, and Lows. thank you for your response
Hi Ivan. Thanks for the kind words! The app is the dbx Driverack PA2 app. However, it works with the dbx Driverack PA2 hardware. At the time of this video, that piece of gear was $279. Now, it is $509! We tri amp our system with the old skool amp racks and passive speakers. However, you can accomplish this separation without the driverack and app. This can be done by putting the subs on an aux channel with a low pass filter set at about 150hz and mains with a high pass filter with the same crossover point (150 hz ish), This would be a bi amp situation, but a well balanced system delivers more auditory power without needing a great deal of volume. Here is the driverack PA2 (now very expensive but well worth it since you just send the R/L signal and it splits the signal and assigs crossover slope and point)
www.amazon.com/dbx-DriveRack-PA2-Management-Processor/dp/B00H90W3AE
just out of curiosity John - What is your setup time - I'm thinking about 4 hours.
No, it is 2 hours (that means 2 hours from unload to sound check). We have everything preconnected and we just run the lines to the speakers. I have active subs now, and they are a PITA since you have to run both electrical and audio lines to the speakers. We sold the passive subs, so our current setup is slightly longer with the active subs. Oh well.
what about the Subs,did you use 4 poles or two poles?
Thanks for the question. Subs = 2 Pole +1/-1. The tops are 4 Pole active crossover Horns +2/-2, the 2 15” +1/-1 for the 3 way tops. These Mpro subs can be wired 4 pole.
I have a question please.
I’m a mobile DJ looking at purchasing one of these to further tailor/enhance/limit front of house sound. The remote app also appeals to me.
My system is 2x EV EKX-12P active tops and 2x EV EKX-18SP active subwoofers. The DSP control on these speakers have the option to system-match the crossover i.e. the high pass for the tops can be set to EKX-18SP (or other EV models) and the low pass for the subs can be set to EKX-12P (or other EV models).
Would I be able to route the signal flow/configure the settings in the DriveRack so the above is maintained?
I don’t want the DriveRack crossover controls to supersede the speakers’ system-matched settings.
N.B. The outputs on EKX subwoofers are hardwired as a thru output (no DSP out) i.e. they’re always sending a full range signal (see this video explanation - EV ELX200, EKX & ETX Crossovers | How they work and why they are not good options for column arrays - CZcams).
Any help appreciated.
Great question! The Driverack PA2 can be configured to bypass the crossover. Crossover is only one aspect of speaker balance. You have level and eq to deal with (just as important, if not more important). In that case, you can use the EQ features and level controls with the limiters inside the unit (which are excellent in my opinion). The outputs of the Driverack are High-R/L, Mid-R/L and Low R/L. This is to support mono-amped, biamped or triamp paradigms. In your case, I would set the DriveRack PA2 to a biamp paradigm which uses the High and Low outputs. Connect subs separately to R/L low and Tops separately to High R/L on the back of the DriverackPA2. Don’t go directly from mixer to speakers (and don’t daisy chain them with the full range pass through on the speakers) Set lows to run mono (not stereo) using the Driverack interface, and tops to run stereo. Get a decent RTA Mic to use at each venue and use the Wizard to set Level and EQ for that particular setting. Be sure your speakers are placed exactly as you plan to leave them for the show. Then use the level assist and eq assist. Be sure to get a windscreen for the RTA mic and try to set up before the environment gets too noisy. The wizard will literally remotely walk you through with graphics of where to place the RTA mic. Again, this wizard does not set your crossover. That is up to you to do on your speakers (if you bypass the crossover block). The Driverack will tell you to turn up or down each set of speakers until they are perfectly balanced. Even if you disagree with the result, I would not fiddle with the eq or levels after setting them. I have done that, and discovered the DriveRack to have been correct over my ears (Like my ear causing me to think there is too little base or too little treble or that the subs are too quiet). Whenever I mess with it, it sounds amateur (super loud bass, or piercing razor sharp highs, which is amateur to say the least). Also, I use the snake AUX sends to route the DriveRack to the front of the stage and then just 4 XLR’s, 2 going to each side. This maintains the bass mono and top stereo. Bass hits hard and the separation of the tops via stereo sounds rich. Whenever I stick with the DriveRack wizard results I frequently get feedback from the venue “We have not heard a mix that good ever before!” If the hirer wants to run things quieter, the DriveRackPA2 makes keeps the mix rich and fat, and if they want it pumped up, you will notice that the speakers stay balanced throughout the range of your changing output intensity.
Brilliant, thanks so much for such a quick and comprehensive reply - looks like a PA2 and an RTA mic will be my next purchases!
Hi John, I’ve got another question if you don’t mind please (sorry I’m not very technical)…
With you saying not to daisy chain the speakers with the full range pass through output, how will the system-matched crossover be maintained between the tops and the subs if they’re not linked together?
My current signal flow (left + right channels) is *mixer output* to *sub input* then *sub output* to *top input*
@@GazMakaveli The DSP in your speakers are per speaker and do not communicate with other speakers via daisy chain. Same goes with the subs. The crossover you set does not get any crossover information via daisy chain. It is only set per speaker. That is why I would use the dbx DriveRack PA2 for everything. Here is why. A common mistake with people using crossover is that they (for example) will set the crossover on the sub to 80Hz. Logically, they would set the tops to a high pass crossover of 80Hz. Bad idea. The crossover of the tops should be 85 to 90 Hz because the overlap of the fall off of the crossover point creates a spike (and feedback potentially) from 70Hz to 90Hz when summing both speakers at their crossover slopes. So, to create a smooth overlap between crossover points there needs to be a gap in the crossover settings. EV speaker-presets in your tops and subs will do that for you. Per speaker, nevertheless, and not via daisy chain. What the DSP inside each speaker is missing is 1) Eq per venue 2) Sound Level matching per speaker per venue 3) Sub delay. Your crossover settings remain set without daisy chaining, so there is no need to daisy chain, but the DriveRack will help you adjust the loudness of your tops and subs to fit the venue. The DriveRack has sub delay included (I set it at like 3.5ms) becaue the subs are on the ground and slightly closer to the audience, but this applies more to bigger systems. So, I would say use the crossover per speaker and use the eq/level settings from the DriveRack. You don't need sub delay, but it can help if you detect dead spots.
Feel free to keep up the questions! Thanks for asking!
@@CaliforniaCreedence Thank you John.
A DBX distributor here in the UK has said whilst you can't technically bypass the crossover in the PA2, you can open up each band to receive the full frequency band and allow the crossover to take effect in the speakers DSP.
i.e. select a band -> move high pass to 20KHz and move low pass to 20KHz -> repeat for the other bands.
Is this correct/sound advice?