Bulk Aging vs Bottle Aging
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
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Supplies Used:
American Med+ Oak Cubes: morewinemaking...
Tannin Complex: morewinemaking...
Argon Tank: morewinemaking...
Argon Regulator: morewinemaking...
Acquamark Corks: morewinemaking...
Silicone Breathers: morewinemaking...
Bulk aging and bottle aging of wines are two different processes that both serve a key role in the winemaking process. Bulk aging is the process of of aging in larger containers like carboys or barrels. This is where any adjustments and stabilization will happen and it can last from as short as four months to as long as several years. Bottle aging occurs once all blending and adjusting is complete and the wine is ready to bottle. At this stage the wine continues to mature but is out of the control of the winemaker. Some short bottle aging is necessary to overcome bottle shock. For more info, checkout my website, smartwinemaking.com.
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Loving the videos, the look and feel (lighting, sound, etc.) is now on par, quality-wise, with the superb quality of the content. Thanks for doing these!
Thanks for the great feedback! I am getting things figured out with the cameras and editing. Hoping to keep on getting better each video I make.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel , not to advice, but please try to smile a bit when doing the videos. It makes a big difference. You may mark the smile points in your script for best effect!
Very informative video Tks! I am using some small bottle ( 375ml), for proving the wine during the aging process!
great topic! i have been bulking aging from day one of making wine.
You give some of the Best Info. On the Internet..I did 30 gallons Elderberry Wine.. Fermentation 7 days..Second Ferment left it in the carboys for 6yrs..Best Dam Wine I have ever made..18% alcohol..Had a Taste like Brandy..I did Persimmon and Cherry Plum wine as will same thing..Its turned out Absolutely Awesome as well..What I have figured out is once you start a cycle you will always have great wines to drink..I keep building my supplies of carboys that to me is the hardest thing to do..
Thanks for the work making the video man!
I really like your channel a lot - and thanks for this. Some questions:
* Do you degas the wine at any point? What is your preferred method?
* How many times during the bulk aging and when do you re-rack the wine?
Lastly - here's a request...to do a video on making your own oak chips or other means of oaking wine. Is it best left to the experts, or can you do it at home?
Thanks again.
Thank you! I occasionally degas but only I the wine still has a little gas during my final blending. I have a stainless steel rod with a screwdriver handle that I made. I will rack the wine into a bucket that I top with a little argon gas and whip the rod back and forth hard for about 100 to 200 times if it needs it. I usually rack the wine two to three times. Once early on to get it off the gross lees. Once after malolactic fermentation or after about 4 to 6 months, and once at the time of bottling to do any blending without stirring up any fine lees. I have thought about doing my own oak chips and have dabbled in adjusting toast levels. I think it is a little better to buy high quality oak cubes though. They are not too expensive per 6 gallon addition ($2-3), and the risk of TCA is a lot lower since they are better controlled. TCA or cork taint will give a musty smell to your wine. I can talk about all of the oaking options though. I have a post on my website about that and should probably make a video. Thanks again for your good remarks about the channel!
I have seen that no one has replied to your message. I would recommend degassing your wine after the fermentation has completed (both alcoholic and MLF). Keeping the CO2 in your wine during the bulk aging period can add funny flavors to your wine. I would re-rack the wines when a considerable amount of sediment has formed. If no sediment has formed, you are fine not to rack. You don't want to rack excessively as it will expose your wine to unnecessary oxygen exposure.
I have aged wine over oak chips before. I prefer toasting the oak chips (if you buy raw) at 350 to 400 F in the oven (covered in aluminum foil) for an hour. Be sure to soak them in everclear or sulfite solution if you don't use them right away. The key with oak chips is not to use too many. Think about the surface area of the oak chips and estimate how many you would need for a barrels amount. Then add them conservatively (always use less and adjust later).
It would be so helpful if you could just list out the number of times and occasions during which you would add the 1/4 teaspoon KMBS all the way through bulk aging. Thank you🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I have only made wine from kits so far. ( I recently added bell peppers to my primary after watching your video on ' making good wine from cheap wine kit' .) Wondering if I should bulk age wine from a kit?
TIA,. Ron
PS: I am looking forward to making wine from grapes and other fruit that I have in my freezer .
ps2 : I really enjoy your videos.
Thanks for the informative video. It really helps to understand the advantages of bulk over bottle. I know you answered a question about fruit wine already. I'm fermenting my first wine (Strawberry). While you recommend not aging fruit wine, should it be cold stabilized prior to bottling?
Hi Bill. Fruit wines usually don't have a lot of tartaric acid which is what will precipitate as potassium bitartrate crystals. It never hurts to cold stabilize but I don't think you will see much, if anything drop out of a strawberry wine. If you don't have an easy fridge to put it in, I wouldn't worry about it. If the strawberry is Crystal clear in three to five months, I would back sweeten it to taste and bottle it.
Wow, another great video! Our vineyard juice from last fall is still going through malo fermentation (small bubbling). Added 6 tablets of potassium meta bisulfate (1-2tsp) last weekend. How long do you typically continue to see malo fermentation continue after trying to stabilize with metabisulfate?
Bottomline, trying to bottle before this years harvest so I can use the same carboys again. Wanted to get a gauge on what you typically experience on timing of post malo stabilization.
Thank you,
Seth
Malolactic fermentation can be tricky. You can sometimes get a complete fermentation in a 1-2 months if the temperature and conditions are right. Sometimes it takes several months. I would recommend buying some thin-layer chromatography strips to be sure your all your malolactic acid has been consumed. Always pitch a culture too if you can, I have had spontaneous cultures form which have destroyed my wines before.
By the way, the metabisulfite will prevent MLF. MLF bacteria are more susceptible to it than yeast, if you are planning on running a MLF I would lower your sulfite additions (you say 6 tablets, but I'm not sure what volume your working with).
Stabilize with metabisulfite after MLF, but don't add potassium sorbate since the MLF bacteria will produce geranium notes.
Hi, I love the way you explained yourself because I was confused about bottling wine to age for a long period of time in other words sit it and forget it. I have a 2 part question. I have 5 one gallon jugs of wine that I have made, three grape and two white ,can I mix them all in a 5 gallon carboy and let sit in my closet for to age and if so do I have too degas it. Thanks
Thank you! You can mix them all into a 5 gallon to age. Make sure it is topped up to the neck. If you don't have enough wine, add a similar store bought wine or previous batch to fill the last bit. You will also want to add about 1/4 tsp of potassium metabisulfite. Don't worry about degassing at this stage. If you still have any remaining gas at the time of bottling, then you could degas.
The Home Winemaking Channel Thank you for responding so quickly what if I want to keep my wine in the carboy without ever putting it in bottles can I do that and how long will it last before I must drink it, and do I keep the airlock on it or put a stopper on it? Thanks
Nice video ! My basement averages about 46 degrees, is this going to work for my long term storage I go south for the winter months from northern states . And this is my first home made 4 gallon batch of wild grapes mix with 4 lb plum and 8 lb dark grapes 14 lbs fox grapes . Sorry if I’m not making any sense I’m just getting into this wine making experience . A step by step start to finish would be great , I’ve watched a bunch of video and they all seem to pass over some ingredients along the way to the end ? Loved your vid on aging !
46 degrees F will work fine. The wine can last for decades at that temp as long as it is stable when going into bottle. I have a few different step by step videos if you checkout the video section on my channel page. I also have a few step by step articles on my website smartwinemaking.com.
👍 thank you !
Hi. I have a question. When you bulk age in a carboy. Can you take off the airlock when ever you want to sample wine etc. Or do you want to minimize fresh air contact etc. Say you have put in sulphites. Will opening it up cause a eeductuon such that you need to boost the sulphites. Great channel by the way!
I use marbles to top up without adding any other ingredient to my wine....
What if you are using Screw tops? Does this make a difference to bottle aging.
After bulk aging in the carboy and you're ready to bottle, when and how are you adding sulfite to the wine? I've added sulfite at each racking but am unsure how you go about adding for bottle aging. Or will there be enough sulfite left in the bulk wine that the small amount of time it is exposed to the air during bottling would be negligible? Thanks! These videos are great!
Love all your Videos, i am a newibe , i have a question, i am not using any malacotic or sulphites , these means i should consume my wines with in 3 to 6 months, is that ryt understanding?
I thought I recall you mentioning in another video I watched last year (maybe) that the cheapest corks were actually the way to go, the agglomerated, which fall under both natural and synthetic. I've been aging red wine for 3-4 years now and my ld carlson "First Quality" agglomerated corks are holding up fine. They are 9 3/4 length, so perhaps that helps.
At what point do you add sorbate to your wine if you don’t back sweet ? I usually age in 54Lcarboy and let bulk age for just under 1 yer. I usually add sulphites Along the way of bulk ageing 2-3 times in small doses. Thanks bud for your helpful videos!
New to winemaking, working on my second year’s batch using grapes grown at my home. Last year I made 60 bottles split between red and white. Listening to this video, I think I may have bottle my red too soon, in March for the fall crop. The wine is just OK, a little tart and a little fizzy. I was thinking of moving it back to a car boy to age longer, maybe some sulfites and lots of stirring and then move it back to bottles after a few months or when I get the taste right. Any thoughts on this?
Hello I posted a comment on another CZcams post, but I NEED HELP,!,. I made 12 bottles of wine with a 30 bottle wine condensed pack, it’s soo sweet & Thick how do I fix it? Thanks great stuff what is your name?
how many times should i rack my red wine
do people normally add oak to rosé wines? Also do they age it and if so for how long should I age it? My rosé is going to be made out of lemberger(blaufränkisch) and it's going to be my first wine. I'm thinking about aging it in those big glass bottles that I can't spell correctly.. For how long should I try to age it in there? I also wish to bottle it later and perhaps save 2-3 bottles to age for longer(unless rosé isn't ment to be aged?
Loved the video! Just a quick question. I live in a tropical part of India with a year long sunmer; Temps over 70 even in winter! I live in an apartment, so don't have a basement either. What should be the time frame I should look to age wine jn such heat? I was reading that aging in jot climates makes the wine turn faster. Could you shed some light on this ?
That is certainly going to speed up the aging process a bit. Assuming you are generally under about 75F in the area you store the wine, you should still get 2-3 years relatively easily. I would go a little higher on the SO2 in your case if you intend on aging more than a couple years. Wines high in acid or tannin will also resist spoilage much longer. If your red wine ends closer to pH 3.7 you may not want to push your luck too much but if it is closer to 3.5 it should have some staying power. Keep your carboys topped up to minimize oxygen exposure. Look for the coldest area of your home to store the wine.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel hi.. thanks for the reply. Much appreciated info. I lost one batch due to excess oxidization, and for the second batch I bottled after a few weeks to reduce risk of losing all the wine at once. Quick question though, in this extreme climate over 75, what should be the minimum time to drink your wine? Since you said 2-3 years is a max period, what should be a minimum ?
It will depend on the type of wine. A white wine can be ready as soon as 3 months. The soonest for a red is going to be probably closer to 4-6 months. If it tastes good, it is ready. A lot of big red wine just take about a year or so to smooth out.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Thank you. That's a fair estimate. I tried white wine and it went kapoot, got to sour too soon and then we had vinegar :D . Stuck to red after that.
We've used the premade kits to make wine and it never goes all the way to the bottleneck so we can't age in the carboy. Dont
I am very new at winemaking. I have noticed on young wine when we open it and drink it it kind of tickles your throat a little bit. Is that from the sulfate gas am I adding too much or is that a natural process that occurs
The hardest thing about home winemaking can be the metabisulfite additions. If you add too much you will make a very unpleasant wine (which happened to me years ago). Be sure not to add too much, always dose appropriately (this takes time to perfect). I only add at the beginning (before fermentation), and wait 24hr (be sure to stir afterwards). And after the fermentation is complete. Then the last addition is at bottling. It may be advantageous to use titrets to test the SO2 concentration (if your making a light colored wine at least). Keeping notes of all this and using online calculators is also advantageous.
Thank you for the videos! How do you feel about synthetic corks?
They are pretty good. Less risk of TCA contamination with synthetic. Not as fancy looking. A little less forgiving if you are using one size and mixing and matching bottles. Less risk of the corks shrinking or drying out with synthetic. You could probably make an argument either way. Price is pretty similar to the Acquamark usually also.
Thanks for the information, can I ask, would you suggest storing wine in a 5 gallon korrny keg? I was thinking of purging the oxygen with co2 to create an oxygen barrier. Thanks again!
I would, but it would be better to purge with nitrogen or Argon if you don't want it carbonated. Both are inert and will not absorb into the wine. You can even pressurize it with either to serve on tap. You will need a different regulator though since the tank fitting is different. Make sure to get the dual pressure gauge style if you do go that route. I had a pressure and flow regulator for argon that I swapped the flow meter for another pressure gauge.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel unless you maintain a pressure of 5 + PSI, you aren't going to notice carbonation (as anything in solution will come out quickly when it's poured). for purging headspace, you just set the regulator at 5ish psi and burp the valve for 30 secs or so, you don't need to keep the headspace at 35 psi for multiple days. Most people can't detect carbonation at .8 volumes, which is achieved at 70F by maintaining a pressure of 1.5 psi until the liquid inside is saturated (in other words, you left it hooked up to gas for no reason). pure co2 is heavier than the atmosphere, so as long as when you're burp the valve, you hear gas hissing out, you have positive pressure in the headspace/are displacing air; it doesn't take much.
We serve and can still wine with co2, you just keep your regulator set low and only give it a short burst of gas as the flow slows ( to make up for lost volume). Cut your lines really short/long (to make co2 readily come out of solution enroute to the tap). Co2/equipment is significantly cheaper than Argon or N. Sparkling wine is generally going to run about 6 volumes(50 psi @40F), semi sparkling runs 3-5 (35-50@70F), and still can be gotten away with up to 1.5 (most of the time).
Is your wine actually good?
Thank you for the great videos!! At what temperature do you bulk store in the carboy?
Between 50 and 60F is ideal but more importantly is that there aren't day to day fluctuations that could expand and contract the wine and pull air in or out of the airlock. If you are a little warmer it will age a little faster and be a little less forgiving if the sulfite levels aren't adequate. Mine usually are around 55-60 in the winter and high 60s in the summer.
Thanks very much. A follow up question. Can I add a small amount (a handful) of lightly toasted oak cubes to the carboys after the first racking and leave them in the carboys to simulate barrel aging. I did not use them during primary fermentation.
@@richca2004 Definitely! Light toast will have a little more aggressive tannin which is generally a good thing early on in the wines life. As it ages, you may want to fine tune the oak with a little medium toast or medium plus oak. Cubes are the way to go if you are making wine on a small scale. They have a good toast gradient as opposed to chips and seem to usually be very high quality by comparison
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel That is very helpful. I have six 5 gallon carboys and four 1 gallon jugs that I will add the cubes to. I assume sanitizing them in a metabisulfite solution is a good idea.
can it be done in plastic container ??
Thank you...
Q: how many months are
"ful summer cycle"? 🤔
12, 18, other?
Since you harvest grapes in the fall (September/October), it takes about 10-12 months until you are through summer which begins in June and ends in August. Depending on your climate, there is a chance of Malolactic Fermentation stalling out in winter with no obvious indication. If it gets through the warm summer without re-starting, you can be confident it won't in the bottle .
What do you think about bulk aging in plastic instead of glass? Am still new and I dont have any glass carboys or bottles yet.
If it is the PET plastic carboys, it is probably fine but I would much rather use glass if you can. When you pick up and move a fully topped up plastic carboy, it can squeeze wine out of the top easily. They also have a larger diameter neck which creates a larger surface area for any air to interact with the wine. Any scratches will leave an opportunity for bacteria to get stuck. Then with the wine being high alcohol, high acid, there is always a fear that some molecules could leach into the wine. PET is pretty good stuff though and also very food/drink friendly and impermeable to oxygen if made in enough layers (like a ketchup bottle).
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Thank you for this info. =]
What about using screw caps?
What SO2 level is optimum for bulk aging?
Our first 6 gallon batch of cab is bulk aging right now. Is it worth blasting the AC to get the temp down a bit or is 70-74 degrees okay? And if we have to age on the warmer side, is it better to age shorter? Thanks!
If it is only going to be warm for a few months I wouldn't worry about it. It will speed up the aging significantly though. I would think you will be more on the 8-12 months to bottle vs the 12-18 months. If it is from a kit, I would bump that down to about 6 months and consider adding some tannin to pump it up a bit.
What do you think of screw tops.
I can see the allure of screw caps for wineries since they are more consistent in terms of O2 permeability and do not introduce any risk of TCA spoilage but for the home use, the cork is still King for me. Even though corks are a little less convenient to remove, they sure are classy. But the big reason I haven't done screw tops is the cost of the capping machine. Screw caps are deformed onto the bottle with a fancy machine that costs $3,000 to $5000 even for the smallest setup. You can get a really good corker for about $60 so it makes the decision easy to go with corks.
What about using synthetic corks?
Im about to make first racking from a 6 gallon carboy, cuz there some wine lose in the racking i was thinking to age in small carboys, or u recommend me to bottle age ?
You can rack into another 6 gallon carboy and top up with a store bought wine or a wine you previously made. Another option is to rack into a 5 gallon carboy and bottle the two or three that don't fit in the carboy. You can then use those for topping up later. If you bottle too soon, you may end up with a lot of sediment in the bottle. I would recommend staying in carboy until things start to smooth out. Just make sure to keep it filled to the neck and keep liquid in your airlocks
Do you add KMS each time you check in on your wine during bulk aging?
During bulk aging, I don't check it often if it is in a carboy. Maybe once every three months. I normally do a high k-meta dose at the start of aging then will test it with a Vinmetrica SC-300 meter if it has been more than about 6 months and adjust accordingly. If you keep it sealed and topped up you may lose somewhere around 5ppm per month. In a barrel it is a whole different story. You could easily lose 15ppm per month, so it is worth testing every month when topping up, or every other month.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel thank you very much! You have been my go to videos for the last few years
What is the best temperature for Bulk wine?
About 60F is a good place to be. Having a steady temp is important also. If it heats and cools to much, you will pump air back and forth through the airlock.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel thank you. But does it hawe to be ventilated?
@@alexaaz The space does not need to be ventilated. When actively fermenting, you will need some ventilation but during bulk aging you could stick it in a closet or a box if that is where you have space. You should still use an airlock on the wine though to let it breath. Solid bungs are a little more risky since they can blow off if the wine expands and contracts or degasses a bit. N
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Thank you!
I was wondering if you can send me some information about that copper sulfite I made some homemade prickly pear and it smells like sulfur really bad can you help thank you Vernon
Is it sulfur like burnt matches, or sulfur like rotten eggs? If it is more burnt matchy, it is probably too much SO2. If it is rotton eggs, it is hydrogen sulfide. If they fermentation is still bubbling, start by churning it up really good and feeding the yeast with some yeast nutrient. If the gross lees get too compact on the bottom it can produce a little H2S. The process with Copper Sulfate is pretty simple, but you definitely don't want to mess it up, since it is toxic at higher doses. You will want to start by making or buying a 1% solution of Copper Sulfate. From there, you will want to do a quick trial to see if it removes the smell in a small sample. You can then add to the wine, 0.1ppm at a time, to react with the H2S. You shouldn't add more than 0.5ppm, which is only about 5mL of 1% solution to 5 gallons of wine. Don't add copper sulfate to an active fermentation, or it can make the problem worse by stressing the yeast. Splash and feed if it is bubbling and stinking.
Here are some pretty good instructions from the vintner vault. www.thevintnervault.com/index.php?p=w_m_tips&id=5781
The Home Winemaking Channel How does this start in prickly Pear? Could it be because it’s wild fruit it doesn’t smell right now I did 3. 5 gallon batches of pineapple juice three of them had the same smell had a little bit a taste in the wine
The Home Winemaking Channel thank you very much for getting back to me I appreciate it
Does this information apply to wine kits as well.
In principle it will be the same but the timelines will be shortened with a kit wine. Kit wines are balanced to be drank young in general. A red wine from grapes will be very harsh when young but come around in about a year and stay good for many years. A kit will taste great in a couple months to about 4 or 5 months, then start dropping off unless you do some things to pump it up. You can pump up a kit by adding only enough water for 5 gallons, adding oak supplements, and adding additional tannin. You can also add grape skins and seeds from a red wine fermentation if you time things near the harvest. I recently did the opposite and used the concentrate from a kit to pump up a red wine from grapes by adding a bit of concentrate to the must.
So basically you want red wine to bulk age over a year right? If you keep it in a dark climate controlled room the wine doesn't know if its winter or summer when you make it. Ha
What about aging fruit/country wines? I heard you don't need to in fact I heard fruit wine does not age well. Is this correct?
I generally would not recommend it. Some, like elderberry can age well since they are a little higher in tannin but anything more fruity should be treated more like a white wine. You will slowly lose the fruity aromas as time goes on and some can begin to oxidize if the pH is too high.