FX's Shōgun | Episode 1 - Anjin | The Most Dreadful Scene Part 1
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- čas přidán 2. 04. 2024
- For some of us, this is probably @FXNetworks Shōgun most dreadful scene, and we know why. But in the end, it was a Japanese culture; code of honor, back in the time. So no matter how dreadful the scene is for some of us, let's respect the show's efforts to portray the Japanese culture in the Shogunate era as authentic as possible.
As we all know, Shōgun is an American historical drama, which presents historical events and characters with varying degrees of fictional elements such as creative dialogue or fictional scenes which aim to compress separate events or illustrate a broader factual narrative. It is based on the 1975 novel of the same name by James Clavell, which was previously adapted into a 1980 miniseries. Clavell's Shōgun is indeed a historical fiction.
Hiroyuki Sanada, that serve as a producer and lead actor, stressed on keeping the show authentic to Japanese history. He said: "If something is incorrect, people cannot focus on the drama. They don't want to see that kind of show. We needed to be authentic."
On a matter of the seppuku committed in the scene was also intended to end the samurai’s bloodline (by killing the samurai's infant son), we personally hope it's fictional. Was this ever historically done? Only historians can answer. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Watch Shōgun every Tuesday on Hulu. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
The book was even more brutal but I'm glad it translated to the screen well. Every piece of acting in this series bar Blackthornes cringey acting at times has been on point. The Japanese cast have been phenomenal
"cringey acting" :D noted!
He's supposed to be a clown though, no? It definitely falls on the hammy side but I think it's intentional.
1980 Blackthorn > 2024 Blackthorn
@jcarry5214 I guess in this adaptation he's a little different. The book version he's not as broody and most important of all he actively learns and picks up the language, he also adapts to their culture quickly. I actually like the actor but he's very wooden at times for me.
@@jcarry5214
No, he's not supposed to be a clown.....
I would bet anything that the "Shogun" series producers instructed their Casting Director to find them the cutest baby in all Japan, too.
And looks like its father too XD
All babies are cute.
Mission accomplished! :)
@@Mwoods2272 Black babies are not cute.
@@Mwoods2272 Yes, but some babies are cuter than others.
“Let her hands be the last to hold her son.” I love Fuji and Mariko so much 😢
💔request. :(
This is not honor. This is sinful pride.
it will never not be crazy to me that her husband offed himself along with his baby over just shouting at Ishido the bad guy ... their concept of honor is borderline insane
It's Japanese "shame culture" or 恥(はじ) that makes them (especially a samurai class) do things like that. Lord Toranaga's bodyguard unintentionally humiliated him in front of four other Regents, out of his loyalty to his Lord, and if he didn't offer "seppuku" along with ending his bloodline, there would be a bloodshed between samurai in that hall. So he did what he thought pleased everyone in that hall, and save the honor of his Lord. Tragic, but somehow necessary. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Honor, the concept, is insane in any culture if you actually follow it.
@aquilifergroup it really isn't. When done right, it's what gives humans purpose and dignity. Feudal Japan definitely had their way, but it was not always the best.
@@LukeHartman-ro7hlwhen following "honour" becomes a cult it leads to insane outcomes.
Simply try to behave decently and kindly, and that will be honourably enough. A rigid code becomes inhuman.
@DanBeech-ht7sw not necessarily. You can follow a code of conduct other people do and not have to religiously condemn yourself if you don't follow it. My family has traditions we follow, and we do just fine with it. You are an extremist the other way.
In the book it was far far worse - her husband and child had their Samurai status removed and both were killed and left on the rubbish pits for the stray dogs to eat, their names were never to be spoken and her husband had to crawl to his death as he was not worthy to walk - since he had insulted Lord Ishido...
Ishido, Toronaga voweed would pay dearly for this and in the end he does...
Read the book.
Wow. Thanks for the information about the book, dude! We all should read the book then. 👍
Perhaps i must refresh my memory of that passage but as i remember it is was toranaga that had to condemn Fujiko husband to that death and end of his bloodline in part to save face, in part as punishment as his actions really endangered Toranaga's position and plans. But I might be wrong, time passed since i last read books and were not in original English.
I liked the way that they played the scene because it gave so much insight into Mariko. "I know you feel the pull of death. I've felt it too." How does one go on when one has lost everything you care about?
I agree. The most dreadful scene 😢
What if Mariko suddenly kicked Tadayoshi in the crotch and swiftly snatched away his wakizashi (short sword)?
@@Hermit_Ronin really? It doesn't change a sealed fate
@@okunlolaseun4148 I know and sorry about my poor humor. I know that really wouldn’t happen. And I just thought that I’d crack that joke since I find Tadayoshi to be the most detestable character of the series. Especially with that excessive ego of his.
何回見ても泣くわ😢子供を取られる母の辛さ、泣くわー。私は今大阪に住んでるけど、何百年前からの思いに心をはせてます。
ご覧いただきありがとうございます、コメントありがとうございます。確かに、赤ん坊があんなふうに死んでいくのを見ると、悲しくなります。いつか大阪に行って、かつて将軍が住み、統治した大阪城を肌で感じてみたいです。超クールな経験に違いありません。
The first thing I see is the very cute baby.
The first thing i saw was titties.
This is heartbreaking.
Indeed. But this one is "epic heartbreaking": czcams.com/video/1tQ9DHnX08w/video.htmlsi=abM9tdlVdtCe8bxL
That poor baby was scared 🥺
Is it wrong of me to say I don't feel so sorry for the husband, since he brought this on himself because he didn't control himself? but poor fuji, for her infant son to die when the latter did nothing to deserve it.
Understandable but if you could, position your thoughts on the idea that the husband, despite being a product of the samurai class with extremely strict codes of behaviour, was overcome by emotion (an entirely human reaction), that unfortunately meant he must be punished for breaking those rules that deny him this freedom.
He is a victim just as much as Fuji and her son are by the very system they are enforced to abide by.
可愛いうえに泣くタイミングが素晴らしい赤ちゃん👶💕
確かに！🥰
Such a cute chubby baby but was such a sad scene. I hope Fuji is ok and rebounds from it over the course of the series.
Like mentioned in the show, Fuji (hopefully) has tasks and purposes in the whole story, unlike Rickon Stark in the GoT. :D
@@diamondback69projects😂😂😂😂😂😂savage
釜茹でや子の命を捧げるとかの事を考えると切腹が救いに思えてくるな🥶
コメントありがとうございます 🙏
I know this is a sad Scene, but where the Baby looks at and goes for at 1:14 made me laugh. All he thinks is " hmm, Food"
The last supper for the baby? :(
that makes it sadder
You can even see a very slight smile on Mariko's cheek side when the baby starts to go for it. Glad they professionally got the scene through
@@shayanahmed7132wow! Great observation. Must be couple of takes to get it right. 😅
People both in the comments and in society nowadays ought to be reminded more that differences are not something to be disdained and rebuked but to understand.
Japanese culture of this show's era is a far cry from how we of the modern age consider as civilized and that is fine. How far we have gone from then to what we are now ought to be a testament of how far we have come to treating life.
The same people and society also turns a blind eye to the injustices and hypocrisy that happens to this day.
やや誇張された日本だよ
侍たるもの家に殺した仏様の生首を飾り子ども達に死に慣れさせておきましょう
仏僧は弓の練習用に使いましょう
とか文献に書かれてた時代ですら赤ん坊は川に流されてたし
Yeah, sure, they were barbarians at the time, and still to this day japanese keep a lot of this middle age mentality in their traditions.
Killing an infant for any reason is barbaric.
@kellymoses8566 congratulations, you are pro-life.
何回見ても涙出る😢
ここでも同じです。本当に悲しいです。🥲
WoW, such a really powerful scene ! Really like how Marikosan handled it.
Indeed! She handled it great, no matter how heartbroken their feelings were. :(
Fuji is such a strong character...
Loosing her husband is sad, but loosing her son too in the same time? A strong character indeed.
and they call Anji the barbarian
History of humans is a prolonged case of the pot calling the kettle black.🤣
The irony is not lost here. How many babies are aborted every year in the US? Funded by the taxpayers.
What atrocities do you think the Christian Western world has committed? When the Crusaders took Jerusalem, they also slaughtered children. We must not forget that life did not count for much during this time. There were almost no such things as human rights or child protection laws back then.
It’s not like Europe valued human life in this era either
@jenscamilo nobody said that the Europeans were any better.
Toranaga had to punish him severely, if he had attacked Ishido in Osaka castle, Ishido's men could have legally attacked and killed Toranaga. Ishido was intentionally insulting because he hoped of Toranaga's men would lose control and attack him. If that happened, he was no longer bound by the rules set down by Taiko and could openly kill Toranaga
True!
Words can't describe how angry I am. They're killing themselves and their babies for the pettiest of shits. 😡😑 everyone in this needs to chill 😑
dude women today murder their babies and you dont say sh1t so.....
Man it's just a bloody film it's not real !
@@bertiewooster3326
It's based on real stuff.
Feudal Japanese did stuff like this, all the time.
Records and personal journals prove it.
@@Shuffle-Major-Arcanayou're right. In feudal Japan, if your overlord said to kill your child, you were supposed to do it, no questions asked.
@@lisar915r9 Like in the old testament?
as a father this scene in particular was difficult to watch
That baby is a good actor.
Couldn't agree more. He started acting at very young age. Thanks for watching and commenting.
That baby really hit his mark! Emmy for the baby
Fujiko is 19 in the novel
And the actress playing her is 27
Now you know 😂
How was it seen as "honorable" to kill your own child because of something YOU did? That seems very dishonorable to me.
I’m quite sure that Fuji and Mariko wanted to clobber Tadayoshi so badly. A feeble idiot who failed his own clan and family.
Yes! Even Ishido mocked them, saying "typical of your clan". The lesson is: Self control is essential, especially when you're only a boot soldier. Thanks for watching and commenting. 🍻
@@diamondback69projects Self-control is right.👍 All Tadayoshi cared about was his own ego and personal pride and he put that above his own clan and family. I infer that he was also a problem guy all along who didn’t get along good with the other clan retainers. Looks like even hot-headed Nagakado was pissed at him too.🍻
Good lord, not the baby. That is horrid.
In translation, they are barbarians, but the correct Japanese is ``a partner in trade between the South and the South,'' in other words, a
It takes 5 samurais to grasp a baby boy from his mother. 🥴 Brave, brave samurais. 😌
Hahaha indeed! 😆
If I was her i would NEVER have another child with him ever again. My first and last child died because of you
He was also sacrificed.
@@fdavis0706fdfd welp crisis averted
Im too cheap to have an FX subscription, so where did this baby come from😂
赤ちゃんが可愛い
確かに！🥰👶ご覧いただき、コメントありがとうございます.
I love it but do not over-love Jarvis's acting, to be honest.
We love Hiroyuki Sanada, Tadanabo Asano, Anna Sawai, Tokuma Nishioka, and Takehiro Hira actings to be honest. Thanks for watching and commenting. 🙏🏻
I think it's a choice for him to be a goober, a self caricature. An in he's absolutely not the cool guy coming in to a culture of weirdoes. But I understand it, it's pretty harsh, you gotta kind of choose to buy into it.
truly vile.
Crazy people who disembowel themselves and murder children but who call Blackthorne a barbarian...
You might want to read up on 16th century Europe a bit Steve. 😏
@@haitolawrence5986that's a weak argument. They are both horrible. Get off your high horse.
Different cultures have different rules and customs. Its not my place to condemn what works for them.
@@NC-ij9rbwell his argument answers perfectly Steve’s ignorant arrogance. so not a weak argument at all. actually it s spot on. it s not news that western countries are easy to judge other cultures as inferior, throughout history and to this day. but don’t you want to know how the world sees you? believe me, it s quite different from what you think of yourselves. maybe food for thought for those who want to come down to earth
We see circumstances in ourselves, while only enduring character traits in others. A man is brusque with the cashier in front of you, and you might think, You don't know that he has been berated by his boss for two hours straight that morning, or that he's just heard his teenage daughter say she hated him. If it were you, you'd think you're entirely justified in being a little bit curt, but you don't see other's history trailing behind them.
It's plain egocentrism, and we're all a little bit culpable.
これは歴史上の事実ではないし、習慣でもない、ただの作り話の映画なのだよ、フィクションは作り話という意味なのだよ
誰もが知っているように、ショーグンはアメリカの歴史ドラマであり、個別の出来事を圧縮したり、より広範な事実の物語を説明したりすることを目的とした創造的な会話や架空のシーンなど、さまざまな程度の架空の要素を含む歴史的な出来事や登場人物を提示します。この作品は、1980 年にミニシリーズ化された、ジェームズ クラベルによる 1975 年の同名の小説に基づいています。クラベルの『将軍』は確かに歴史小説です。
プロデューサー兼主演俳優を務める真田広之氏は、この番組が日本の歴史に忠実であることを強調した。彼は、「何かが間違っていると、人々はドラマに集中できなくなります。彼らはそのような番組を見たくありません。私たちは本物である必要がありました。」と述べました。
この場面で行われた切腹は（侍の幼い息子を殺すことで）侍の血統を絶つことを目的としたものでもあったという点については、私たちは個人的にはそれがフィクションであることを望んでいます。これは歴史的に行われたことがありますか?歴史家だけが答えることができます。ご視聴とコメントありがとうございます。
@@diamondback69projects the shogun production team is commited to authenticity. They did a lot of research before creating this. This is real
Judgmental westerners in the comments should note that Japan had 250+ years of peace after this time period, and dodged colonialism, while Europe was making the world a worse place for everyone. Life wasn’t valued much in the world in general during this time because death was so frequent.
Does that excuse killing a baby? No, but people claiming Japanese people from this time are savages.. there are savage aspects, but we can claim no better. In many ways Japan was more mature
I see more people complaining about people complaining than the number of people complaining about dead babies 🤣
Well, it was a peace that was highly defined. A rigid social hierarchy and structure. A convoluted poilitical/hostage apparatus. The Edo shogunate was ruler, barely in name, mostly by military might. Peace had dividends, but also negative side affects. Economic and cultural maturity yes (futures market, cultural florishing of the arts, paper currency, banking, cottage industries, a 40% literacy rate by 1852 etc, etc), but also social decay (samurai got poorer, some became farmers, merchants got richer).
Infanticide was actually practiced as a means of keeping the population from rising too high that would inevitably lead to the decline of living standards due to over-population. That, is the Edo period. Maturity or otherwise. 12 million in 1600 (ranked 8th in the world), 27 million in 1700 (ranked 5th in the world) and 29 million in the 1800 (ranked 7th in the world), peace has a price.
Europe was making the world a worse place for everyone? Ask the non-Aztec tribes of central America how much they minded no longer being rounded up and ritually killed as human sacrifices, in their tens of thousands, every year before about 1520. Read "Empire of the Summer Moon" if you want to learn some pretty spine-chilling facts about warfare among the plains tribes of North America. Study Genghis Khan, and what he did in conquering the largest contiguous land empire in world history, about the cities he wiped completely off the map, the destruction of an ancient and well-developed irrigation system in Mesopotamia (and of the political authority which maintained it), so that it has never been rebuilt to this day -- Genghis Khan is estimated to have killed as many as 40 million people, possibly 3/4 of the population of Iran, and possibly 11% of the total _world_ population in the 13th century.
It's _way_ past time people got over this notion that European colonialism was in _any_ way unique or uniquely evil and rapacious. If they were more successful at it previous, non-European peoples, it was only because by the time they started, they had better technology than anyone else.
Bro Japanese used to kill babies but they didn't view it as murder more sending the baby to heaven. And they did it for alot of reasons. One of which was poor birth control. And also cos they might been poor and unable to feed the whole family. They also had a special place in hell for women who were barren and unable to conceive. That says alot about how Japanese viewed babies
These same Westerners are also the ones cheering for baby killing Palestinians and terrorists. Those people aren't savages? Hmm
I can not excuse this ! The man can kill himself for the offence but this is barbaric. I still love the show.
Why is everything grey.
Why not? :D
@@diamondback69projects Because the world is not grey.
Wow . Omg . Terrible .
Aaaaaaaand here come the what-about-isms. Tread carefully when criticizing Japan, folks. The weebs get mad. 🤣
It's ok to criticize as long as you acknowledge your own cultures wrongdoing. If you aren't able to do that then YOULL be criticized and rightfully so. Point the finger, you'll have 5 fingers pointing back at you.
@@LukeHartman-ro7hl cry more
@gallowglass3764 Great response. How long it take you to come with that one?
@LukeHartman-ro7hl why do you care?
@gallowglass3764 care about what? Impartiality? Because criticism is necessary for growth and learning from mistakes. It's also necessary because it prevents from putting anybody on a pedestal.
The anger of 2024 🇺🇸 culture people in witnessing this scene reveals a few things:
1) The Christian revolution still holds in our culture. It was only with the advent and steeping in Jesus’ value on children, women, and the weak that Western culture moved away from killing 1/2 of girl babies by dumping them on the trash heap. (Romans and Greeks).
2) 🇺🇸 people are not empathetic to cultural differences, even when it’s 350 years ago in Japan. Feudal group society values mean that honor and duty are the most important values, not individuals or the life of one infant whose father shamed the supreme clan leader.
How can we begin to heal divisions in our own society without putting aside judgement and choosing curiosity, observation, and patient understanding when we hit up against the “other”?
The most fucked up thing is nearly all the viewers forget Toranga agreed to this. He had the influence to settle it otherwise without losing face. People also love Yubo as a fan favourite, such a stud, bad boy, anti-hero, funny guy with good heart. It boiled someone to death in agony for no other reason than he could. But people forget that, it's fine. It's like Dany in Game of Thrones, people forget she was always a monster even before her "oh muhhh gawwdd" little "personality flip" at the end. It wasn't a fucking flip, people are just fucking blind. I do love the modern Shogun, it's not sugar coating in feudal Japan like so many other films, books, shows and games do, they were savages often worse than Europeans, Africans and other Asians.
Morality and objectivitiy matter. Killing a baby just because she's a girl? That's awful. For us to choose right and wrong, that means that certain behaviors that some cultures condone is atrocious, illogical, and wrong. You make an excellent point in your writing. However, cultural relativism, in our time, leads to the permissiveness of marrying off girls who are still children and female genital mutilation, just as a few examples.
Savages
You do realize that the Spanish Inquisition was going on during this period? Women being burned at the stake in Europe for 'witchcraft'. Heretics tortured to death, etc. 🤪
At the same time in europe they burned others alive for their "wrong" religous beliefes.
The Sins of the Father.
You mean Westerners? Yep. The millions murdered around the world by colonialists will attest to that. This scene is fictional and didn’t happen btw.
Y'all be calling this scene dreadful and barbaric while celebrating abortion, 😂!
Who celebrates abortion? There is a difference between an embryo and a baby.
@@endlesswick An embryo IS a baby.
Nope. It very much isn't.
@@asdax8311 like an egg is a chicken
@@georgeworthmore if fertilized, then yes.
All im going to say is we need to critize culture it shouldnt be idolized Bushido was brutal the samurai were just as savage as westherners at the time look at the Japanese invasion of Korea and the acts of savagery commited during the reunification of Japan. The europeans get the worst rap becuase they developed the best technology and could dominate globally the Ottamons and the likes were just as bad espeacily in regards to slavery also europe was the first to ban it within there own states and to there own people. In this particlur incidence If a king openly orderd somthing like this in Europe it would of been considerd barbaric because of christianity but that came with its hole host of fanatism and other fucked up shit. I mean so called bushido was used to brainwash the japanese poplulation in pre ww2 and commit horrific atrocities. And there are modren Cultures that should be critized such as honour killings I think the modren Culture that respects life and aims for a more free and equal society is a lot superior to the savage barbarity in a lot of others that follows might makes right
The baby was like, damn it father you dragged in to this honor and code shite 😂🤣