How to Install Subaru Camshafts & Rocker Arms
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- Steps-by-step tutorial for the correct installation of Subaru 2.5L camshafts, rocker arms, and camshaft caps. The concepts outlined here, typically apply to all Subaru engines (turbo and naturally aspirated). Currently, the engine is out and fully disassembled, I had the heads surfaced, I removed all the carbon buildup on the exhaust valves, the heads have been reassembled, I've installed the MLS head gaskets, and torqued down the heads (see previous videos for all these steps). Now it's time to install the Camshafts!
*2020 UPDATE: After working as a professional Hydrogeologist for 15 years, I've decided to embrace the reward I've found in creating CZcams content, my passion for competitive Motorsports, and building relationships with all the people and small businesses that make these communities work. I'M GOING FULL-TIME as a CZcams Creator starting Dec 2020! Hope you'll join me on this journey into the unknown!
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This channel is awesome! I literally just started taking my 99 foresters engine apart to do the head gaskets. I was so skeptical because its the first time i take an engine off/apart. But now that i found this channel it will be of so much help for me to put everything back. I dont feel as lost now! Thanks man! God bless you!
Stoked to hear man!!! Super stoked 🤙🤙
SubaruONLY this is awesome man! Thanks for sharing so much knowledge with the subaru community. I hope you got more videos coming soon!
Specifically the torx bolts are TP40, Torx Plus. A regular T40 has potential to strip them out. Torx Plus is more square around the peaks as opposed to the pointy peaks of the regular torx.
Great Video!
Straight-forward and thoroughly explained without a bunch of fluff. Great videos and we all appreciate the help!
Highly detailed and much needed
I have Haynes manual, and it does explain rtv application very well.
Nice, good luck!!!
since I do NOT have a Subaru shop manual I appreciate torque values and sequences..!
Still super informative and one of, if not the best videos out there on this! Couldn't help but notice the apple pipe on the desk. No wonder you are explaining so nicely!
Good eye!!! 😂😂😂 And thanks for the kind words!!! 👊
What is up from Minnesota? I own a 07 Impreza 2.5i SOHC, 169, 420 miles. Runs Awesome, super quiet. From watching your content, I will be able to rebuild my engine when the time comes, seriously, Thank You, Peace
Very thoroughly explained. Now to buy a few sockets to get one done.
👌
Awesome video! The ease in which you explain makes me more confident and want to build rebuild an ej20 for my STI. Keep up the great work and I hope for my videos.
+Matthew Aceves Dude. Thank you very much. Stoked to hear positive feedback - makes a big difference on my end, no BS. Cheers man 🤙
Thanks to your video I just caught my mistake with that rtv sealant will be adressing it tmrw at work in the morning
apply force to torque wrench on the handle to accurately torque, good video!
I know it's an older vid but just so you know, you hand tighten rtv then wait an hour and torque them to spec.
Thanks man. Good call.
Those cam cap bolts are Torx Plus, which has fatter splines than std Torx. I twisted my Torx driver bit while removing them, because the PO overtightened them and the fit was sloppy- just a heads up for anyone else looking to get the right tools for the job.
Nice - THANKS! 👍👍
Thanks bro.. My 2001 Legacy GT project is going much smoother because of this video. Thanks. Why no new videos?
Good vid. Luke. Good cam. position over the head. Did you mention anything about de-greasing the machined surfaces, before RTV? Sorry if I missed it. You have an axiomatic style of communication (self-evident), clear and thorough delivery of the facts. I wonder if you have experience in academic writing or speaking? Was the retro-fit cooling mod. visible on that head. The twin-cam. engine behind you appears to have an aftermarket crankshaft-nose pulley. I don't believe these pulleys - damp, mid to high frequency harmonics, from the crank. And can result in early failure.
I like what you’re doing. Thanks for making your videos.
thank you for the videos, im going to try to change the head gaskets on my wrx :)
This video is very informative. The information is very detailed and helpul, thank you.
Google is creepy I was talking to my wife about replacing the head gaskets. And this pops up on recommend. 💀
Whoa. That is creepy. These freaking phones are getting too smart man!
You're the man Luke! These videos are fucking amazing!
You helped me get my heads together! Thanks!
Awesome - stoked 🤙🤙
That's cool. I have to do a head gasket job. Will be my first one. QUESTION: HOW DO you know if you have the cams, rockets, etc on correctly after getting back from the machine shop? I'd be afraid that I would screw something up after I get them back and put the sprocket on and destroy everything! LOL. Cheers!
What about the rocker arm to cam gaps? Kinda important eh?
great videos man i love the infro and simplicity
Only thing I'd say is do a pass or two on torque at lower torque
Hell of a good call man! 👍👍
Any one know if this is only for a 2.51? I need to find one for a 2.53 07 Subaru Impreza 2.5i
Not sure if it’s the same. Prob slightly different torque specs. You can always use the Factory Service Manual, I provide them for free on my website - SubaruONLY.com - check it out!!!
I just put a new to me low mileage engine into my 2005 impreza sedan, 2.5l sohc. the engine came to me on a pallet out of a recently wrecked car, upon inspection it has a new factory subaru timing belt, subaru factory oil filter (which I changed when I put new fluids in), new intake gaskets etc. After a week of driving it runs excellent but leaks oil, roughly 1/4 litre per 2 week period, more if I drive it more. Everywhere on the engine is perfectly clean and dry except for the driver side head has a TINY bit of engine oil weepage on it, near this cap and the exhaust manifold (really hoping its not a headgasket problem), I noticed gray RTV kinda drooping from the area on the cam cap where it looks like the leak is coming from, do these tend to leak? No other possible indications of a headgasket failure, so really thinking it could be the cam cap has a bad seal
I cant find a answer to the differance between the left or right i mixed them up
I'm helping a buddy replace his cams and the rockers won't fit well I am curious if he might have swapped the cam cap plates is that possible?
The rtv does not go into the groove.
Man, first of all congratulations for your videos, are very enlightening and inspiring.
My name is Marcio and I'm from Brazil, just as you are a lover and enthusiast of Subaru vehicles.
I have a Subaru Impreza GC8 with engine ej20 sohc NA.
I have a degree in mechanics and I have a project to improve the efficiency of my engine without the addition of a turbocharger.
I am bumping into some points and so far I have not been able to solve.
An example is the measurement of camshaft the ej25 sohc
I have idea if it is possible to use this camshaft in the EJ20 to get some gain.
I would like to share experiences and if you have some tips I appreciate.
Abs
Hi Marico! Thanks for checking out the videos. Cool project 😎😎😎. Dig this question my friend!
Internal combustion engines, at their most fundamental level, capture the heat energy of the internal combustion cycle and convert it to mechanical work. By design, they are actually extremely inefficient, with respect to capturing all the heat created. This is where I would suggest you focus your efforts - Try to think of creative ways to minimize the loss of heat, and as a result transfer more energy to final output of mechanical work (ie engine’s flywheel output and torque to the wheels). One place to start , header wrap for example. But try to come up with more creative ways to achieve this and I bet you’ll find all kinds of ways to save that heat energy.
Yes, this would be more beneficial if a turbo was involved, but it will still increase the efficiency even on a NA motor - And that is only objective here!
Hello friend, thanks for the reply.
Understood, I'm going to start my project in the new year and as soon as I get the news I'll let you know.
Hugs
FYI, that's not a T-40 torx bit, thats a TP-40 Torx Plus... similar, but not the same. Nearly stripped the bolt head while removing the bolts by using the wrong tool.
+Ajila Ama Farms fuck dude. You are 100% correct. Thanks for catching that! They have slightly different shape too!!!
easy mistake, I didn't even know the dang things existed... I asked the matco truck dude to order me some and he told me there are even more out now called "moretorq" hahaha, damn. pretty soon we will have toolboxes bigger than our houses :p
I noticed that you didn't put any lock thread on the rocker arm bolts, I did. Is that going to be an issue? Also I did di anything with the camshaft for lubing because I didn't take that piece apart. Is that going to cause an issue?
Awesome video!! Really appreciate you taking the time to post this. I am about to tackle a camshaft cap seal repair. Hoping to do this without pulling the engine. Not looking forward to that! Ha ..... SubaruONLY, I did just email today. If you have time, please let me know your thoughts! Thanks again
Thanks man. Yes, saw your email, look for my reply later today. Cheers!
Is it possible to reseal the cam holder while the engine is in car
Why didn’t you say what the torque specs or the order of the 5mm Allen heads are?! 😕
T40 Plus
Nice 👍
Great video but you didn't prelube the thrust bearing surfaces on the cam before installation. Please explain and you have a new subscriber. Thanks!
Think I lubber the head machined surface. BUT you are 100% correct!!! Thanks for noticing and sharing!! 🤙🤙
Yeah, I pay attention!
Have you done any video's on Degree of cams on a DOHC? As you have to degree all 4 cams, I kinda understand the #1 LHI cam center line process , is the RHI the same as the left hand bank? Charlie
Hi, haven’t done any videos on cam degreeing, but I should and will try. That’s for the support!!!
Nice video! Nice job man !
Hey man, great video! I'm doing this today and I'm a bit afraid. Is that in subaru shop manual to apply rtv in that groove?
Yep, RTV in the groove 👍
Hi, I got a 2005 Subaru Forester 2.5L 4 SOHC EJ25 with approximately 100,000. I saw a video you did but it was too late, my timing belt failed. It was the geared idler which actually failed and the fact the 05 Subaru 2.5L SOHC EJ25 is an interference type engine I think was a big problem. Yes, the bearing failed miserably it was all rusted and spun out and a cut a perfectly round hole in the timing belt dust cover.
The real problem is I am sure I had at least a couple of bent valves maybe more. I really hope that's all of the damage. Again I saw your warning video about the timing belt kit parts needing to be replaced at around 100,000 miles as mine was over it by 50,000.
I got a kit that came with a water pump and saw the oil pump right there said you know I should do this as its right there. Well, now I know. So looking at this valve video now. Anything you can say to tell me if I am doing things right or whatever would be greatly appreciated. Thanks your videos are helpful to many I am sure. keep up the good workVince mufonfivm@gmail.com
Sir you are very nice think because you share good knowledge
Thank you! Cheers my friend!
Good vid
+TSS NCS - Thank you!
Nice apple you got there Mr. Willy Nelson. Lol Great informative video.
Your videos are very well done. Keep them coming. Your well on the way to a 10k subscribers.
I have a stripped Allen bolt head on the cam plate right behind a spark plug tube. Think some rtv got in there on the last head gasket job. Looking for ideas how to remove the bolt.
+Steve S Thanks man!! Those little suckers are a bitch for sure once stripped. Couple of ideas, screw extractor kit might work or sometimes driving someone that can grab like a big torx bit (star shaped fitting) into that rounded out hole can hold while backing it out. Good luck man!! Let us know how it goes!
Hey SubaruOnly, I'm a complete newbie. I understand that in order to do a timing belt service the engine has to be in TDC to prevent any damage to the internals due to the pistons hitting the valves? When reassembling the engine how do you put it back to TDC with everything apart? Sorry I'm just curious and not super mechanically inclined.
Hey - Thanks for dropping the question! In general, you are 100% correct. However, Subaru engines are unique - which is awesome!
For Subaru engines, we set the valve timing to the Crankshaft timing with all four pistons half way up the cylinder bore. - which means the valves won’t make contact with the pistons, even at full lift. To do this, Subaru has cleverly designed marks in their pulleys and engines to easily make sure everything is lined up correctly.
I walk through this in a little more detail in the videos on changing your timing belt if you are interested. Good luck. Cheers! 🤙🤙
Thank you
I don't see any lifters in that engine. I have a 2003 subaru baja. What causes a lifter like knock when the engine is cold and it goes away when the engine is warmed up? When the engine is cold. its a little scary it sould like a collapsed lifter that eventually gets pumped up with oil. What do you think?
Hey man. That could be lifters not staying pumped up OR could be valve gap getting a little too big. I would check you valve gaps first. If they are too loose, then an adjustment might just fix the problem. Good luck 🤙🤙
Those bolts take a tp40 tool.
one more question Luke, is it’s best to adjust the valves when the head is out on when the heads are installed already.. I already assembled the head but not adjusted the valves to spec. Thanks
+zroboost scooby Hey - no problem. You can adjust the valve lash either before or after you install the heads on the block - basically whenever it is easy to do the procedure. Just make sure you take the time to do it cause they often need to be adjusted - especially those exhaust valves. Thanks man.
SubaruONLY is there a reason why two valves are open on the intake side, and two valves open on exhaust side,when I rotate cylinder head on the left, when I set to timing marks, and the cylinder head on he right all valves are closed... 😕
That's normal. With the timing marks aligned, all pistons are at half stroke. In this condition, the passenger side cylinders' valves are totally closed and the driver's side they're open as they're all on different strokes.
Yep -👆 Nice breakdown. Thanks!
When you set the valve lash, just make sure the valve to fully seated too. Cheers.
Do you have video on this for the quad cam models?
Sorry, don’t. But it’s very similar steps.
@@SubaruONLY I’m asking because the roller rocker arms for my 2013 fb25 motor got jumbled while I was trying to do a reseal job.
Ahah, hate that. It’s happened to me. Not much you can do when that happens… good luck 👍
@@SubaruONLY perhaps some insight to the difference between, say... an A stamped and an E stamped one?
Difference between left and right camshaft
This is the old timer that you helped, can I ask is the intake and exhaust valve springs the same or different?
Not 100% sure, sorry. Valve gaps are definitely different.
But sir i need little help subaru 4cylinder forestor head bolt how much Lb ,kg,nm tighten and also tipet inlet and outlet how much clearence
Do you usually replace the cam bolt sealing washers? The ones on the bolts that are not covered by the valve cover right over the end of the cam? The FSM says to replace them, but I can't find where anyone actually says they do it. Just curious.
Thanks for dropping the message! 🤙🤙
In general, unless it’s a copper crush washer, I don’t worry about replacing a washer. This should be good approach for most mechanical equipment, including these Subaru engines! Cheers and good luck! 🤙🤙
I appreciate it, Luke. These washers appear to not be a crush type. They look like they have some rubber around where the seat of the bolt head contacts them. I will inspect them for serviceability and go from there.
Keep up the channel! As a long time Subaru owner of cars with the EJ257, EJ253, and now the FA20, I enjoy watching your content.
what did you use to clean up your motor so well? I've had my block hotbathed and it doesn't come out that clean.
+Tyler James - Hey man. Nothing much more than elbow grease and some abrasive pads and disk soap actually. Plus, my JDM motor probably has super low miles too. Maybe that's part of it too.
Hi, I bought a used Subaru Impreza 2007 DBA-GE2, my mechanic said there was an issue with one of the camshaft sensors after I took it in due the engine light turning on, so they did a rewiring, it's working fine but I don't know for how long. From their experience when they replace the camshaft with a used one (cause new ones are hard to find) the problem returns after a while.
Getting a new camshaft for my Subaru is not easy. What do you think? and may you please recommend where I can order a new camshaft for my Subaru modal, a company that can ship overseas?
Try Rally Sport Direct or Flatirons Tuning - always high quality parts, great tech people who answer any question and all parts ship out same day or next. 🤙🤙
Awesome Videos! Thank You for being extremely detailed. SUB.
+Nathan Cruz thanks man. Cheers 🤙🤙
TP-40 I think.. "Torx-Plus"
You are right... it’s a T-40 Tory Plus.
do rocker arms need a specific spot?
Yes, keep them in the original locations. Due to Wear patterns.
SubaruONLY what if I mixed them, how can I determine where they go?
I don’t think there are any stamped marks. Keeping them in the same location might not be 100% required, I’d just reassemble and try to make sure it all pivots smoothly and then run it. No other option I’m thinking.
Why is rocker arm sticking. Like its hitting something on 2001 Subaru forrester
Lots of reasons, might be oil sludge build up, might be burr that is hanging up. Might also be the lifter, they often get worn and start to stick. Good luck!
is posible change cams left and right for mistake
Can you use the same parts off the old head to the new one
Yes - For sure. Many many parts are interchangeable. Just double check all dimensions. Cheers buddy!
Hey Luke I am doing my head gadget and I have a concern do I have to align the camshaft on a specific way or not, car is a 99 RS, thanks..
+zroboost scooby Hey man. Thanks for reaching out! Just make sure the front is on the front side of the engine. As far as the rotation, no need to worry about that till you install the cam gears and set the timing with the timing belt installation. Good luck man! 🤙🤙
SubaruONLY great thank man,
hey i got a question for you on the Subaru forester 2.5i can you remove or install the cylinder head with the camshaft and rocker assembly on?
+Julio Salazar. Yes I believe so. The dual overhead cam motors have a cylinder head bolt under one of the cams, but single overhead cam motors don't have that restriction. Should be good to go man!!! 🤙🤙
SubaruONLY thats what I was working on the single cam thank you!
+Julio Salazar Thank you.
Do you have a video on a sohc ej251 head full disassembly ?
Do you need to have the camshaft in the 'UP' position, like top dead center for the pistons?
You line up the marks on the camshaft pulleys.
Why assembly lube vs oil?
Check it out...
I know very little about car engines. I have an 09 Forester.
So, I take it to the dealer (Stivers Subaru in Decatur, GA) about 10 months ago due to engine misfires, sluggishness, and oil leak. All compounding over about a weeks time. They say, head gasket is bad, it's replaced.
Fast foward to about a month ago. Sluggishness returns with smoke from burning oil. They say Cam Seals...okay, done.
I get it back and it is still burning/smoking oil. I take it back in...they say, "bad rightside gasket valve. These typically don't go bad, we must've of disrupted it during the head gasket job last year." So...they fix this for free, which to me admits guilt.
2 days later I have catastrophic engine failure/oil leak going about 65 mphs down the interstate. They tow the vehicle back in and discover the Cam shaft has broke in half.
They are taking a further look to see if it is reasonable to repair. They have not admitted to guilt. They are saying the breaking of the cam shaft caused the breakage in the newly repaired cam seals, this seems highly suspect & gigantically coincidental. I feel like they are going to dick me out of a vehicle.
Do have any advice on what I could say which would help me state a case?
Ok. Just read over this whole scenario... Sorry to hear and I totally agree with you, something seems a little fishy here. I’m going to think this over for a few hours and follow up with another comment later this morning. Hang tight... 👊
@@SubaruONLY Welp...they came back with the "Not are fault, most likely something that was occurring over time." They want me to purchase an 80,000 mile used engine for around $3,200...this is not including the est. of $2,000 labor fee to install. Not thinking my car is worth this amount. Looks like I'm out a car.
They dont know what they are talking about. They needed to see what was going on with the timing and fix that not just play around with seals. Stay away from them in the future and do not buy any of their products. Total cowboys. Check out your rights as a consumer. It is totally on them.
Did he get the journal surfaces?
Awesome videos, huge fan here. My 2.5L SOHC EJ engine with 100K miles, started clacking with excess valve lash, so I checked all clearances and find one exhaust valve- drivers side (cyl3?) to have excess clearance. So I set the clearance to spec and torque up the adjustment screw -nut good. All is ok for about 5000 miles then the clack slowly returns. Rinse Repeat 2 times now. Same valve. Since there's no problem with the clearance at the valve next to the noisy one that opens from the same shared rocker arm, its not the cam lobe or roller, but what else could be happening? If a valve seat was wearing away or if the valve itself was wearing or in extreme case mushrooming, the clearance would be shrinking/closing up but not increasing. What do you think it might be , or suggest my next step might be for this daily driver psuedo-diesel wannabe?
I totally agree with your logic here, sounds spot on to me. So what the heck could it be...hmm. Something is opening that gap up, might be carbon build up or maybe the valve stem bushings are starting to move on you. This is a little tricky and I can’t say for sure. Hope this helps a little. Good luck buddy! I’ll think on this one and circle back if I think of anything else.
very nice thank you
Great Vid once again Bro! Was there a Part 6 to this vid, where u get the cam gears back on a timing belt back on?
Doing a 98, 2.5 DoHc, Auto. Standard HG replacement and Timing belt/waterpump/idlers...wondering If I need to lock up these Cam sprockets with the "23 tool" to take them off to get the heads off, or just TDC on the crank and take the Belt+Sprokets off, since the heads are coming off anyway. These DOHc Phase1, older 2.5s can be a pain lol.
I've used your Clip+Vice grip method twice now on SOHC ej22 and Sohc Ej25 no prob
Yes! Nice man!
As long as the crank is in the right position, you can let the cams sprockets rotate freely. Good luck! 👍
Just got my heads machined and the shop gave them back with the camshafts installed. I have to take them back out to get to the head bolts. Is there anything I need to do to calibrate the camshaft or anything else when I put the cans back or just make sure it rotated freely? It’s an 08 forester XT.
Yes. That is actually the common way for machine shops to return everything, so you all good there. Just remove, clean them off, lube them up on the machines surfaces and toque down to spec and in the order specified in the Factory Service Manual. Check out my website for those service manuals if you need one! SubaruONLY.com.
Can you change cams on a EJ253 without removing motor/heads? Looking to possibly swap in a Blower cam on supercharged 253. Head gaskets already done so no real pressing need to remove motor unless I actually have to.
Yes, you can access the cams and swap in new ones with the motor in the car and the heads bolted on. Will be little tight but definitely doable in my experience.
Thanks. Any idea who might have or make a cam for a supercharged 253. Regrind, new, I don't care..looking for more power!!!
Kelford and Crower Cams. They both make custom ordered cam grinds and can help develop required profiles based on application.
Thanks again for the reply.. I will check em out!
what about in a forester EJ205 engine?
I was looking to buy redline assembly lube. When I went to their website and filled in the application for my car(same Forester generation as the one on this video), Redline website stated their Red Assembly lube wasn't recommended for my car?? I've seen so many people using these assembly lube on these engines.. weird..
Odd. I may have to look into that. Maybe just an oversight on the webpage.
Great video thanks
Thanks. Cheers! 🤙🤙
This is wong! The silicone has to be added to the end that protrudes out further! If you follow this you will have oil leaks on rear of (right) passenger side and front of (left) drivers side.
I hate to be that guy, but you put the sealant in the wrong spot on the cam cap. It is supposed to go on the machined surface, not on the casted 'relief' valley.. Otherwise, great job.
Thanks for calling this out - appreciate it. Cheers!!! 🍻
This has been keeping me up at night. Doe it not go in the valley? Every video I see online seems to put it in the valley, and the manual even seems to show it in the valley. I put it on the machined flat area on the edge of the valley and I'm wondering if I'm going to end up with a leak.
@@masonboisvert4972if you think about where the sealing happens, it only makes sense that it would go between the two machined surfaces. If you put it into the relief (aka the valley), it's possible you put enough on to cover the machined surface as well and not have a leak. But installing it to the valley is not the proper location. When you put it on the machined surface, it needs a VERY THIN layer. I wipe it on with my finger, basically just enough to cover the surface. Hope that helps.
Do you have a video on the Vavle Springs removal and install?
I do. Super early one on a NA motor. I used a drill press with custom attachment to compress the valve and pull the retainer. Check it out.
@@SubaruONLY yeah thanks for the reply found it after I browsed all your videos. Glad to see your back!!!!
Thanks and cheers man!
Hey boss is there any way to get my hands on a shop manual?
You know it! I have most FSMs from mid-nineties on. Just send an email to: SubaruOnlyShow@gmail.com
*And let me know your model and year! Cheers! 🤙🤙
Hey,
was wondering is it worth doing a rebuild myself, are there many things you could do majorly wrong if i did everything step by step.
Thanks :)
If you have the factory service manual it’s definitely something you can do. The trick is to follow each step and take your time, if you can do that and have basic tools - go for it! Good luck 👍
Cool video
Thx
👍
Are you able to do a video on replacing an SG Forester steering rack with an '04 STi rack ?
+Dan Godbey
I would like to do a video on this for sure. Don't have the STi rack currently but I'll keep an eye out for one. Thanks for reaching out! I'll try to make this happen!
Tyler Krzynowek ( I think of GoFastBits ) has some last I knew. They had the '04 & '05+ racks (with the required adapter plate added). He works out of northeast Ohio. You can message him on FB.
0:20 only american made subarus.
I thought 14 point of torque
Lube the whole damn cam, shit.
Good advice. Should use plenty on all machined surfaces! Cheers! 🤙🤙
Hi my name is Howard. My email is hsa1313@yahoo.com. My situation is this. A rocker Arm and spring came out, when my mechanic took off the Valve Cover. It caused a crack in the cover, when the rocker broke off. I JB welded the crack, and no longer lose oil. My car is a 2011 Subaru Forester 2.5l x premium, dohc. Sixth digit A. The car runs like there's nothing wrong. No ticking, loss of power, or misfires. Not sure why. Anyway, do you think it's fixable, or do I need to replace engine? If you could email me, I'd really appreciate it.
Thank you,
Howard
Btw, great video.
Could be fixable. All depends if any damage occurred. Have to look inside or just replace the parts and give it a try.
Dam and you smoke off and apple lol
2:42 ... dude, where are your manners? :)
Guess I need to though a buck in the jar...My bad :)