Hands-On: SAC Modular Sizing Die
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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Short Action Customs (SAC) is literally changing the game with their innovative products. In this video, we'll take an in-depth look at the Short Action Customs Modular Sizing Die using 6 Dasher as an example. How is this die different than others? Watch the video to find out!
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And to think I started reloading to save money!!
At 9:40 you switch to the expander mandrel, which adds a completely new function to the die. Expanding the neck after it's been resized by the neck/shoulder bushing (which is similar to most sizing dies). To do this properly the neck/shoulder bushing must slightly over size the neck so that the expander mandrel can open it back up. Selecting the proper diameter for both the expander mandrel and the neck/shoulder bushing is critical for this to work properly. This will save me the expander step I currently have in my process.
F-Class John and Erik Cortina, thru extensive target testing, don't even worry about concentricity anymore with Lapua brass. It's all about seating depth and neck tension
Mainly because of the level of equipment that they use, ive seen many people dent and bouldge shoulders on lapua brass aswell as loading them visably skew, its onlu when (like them) you know that you concentricity is within a consistent comfortable tolerance that it doesn't factor into the equation any more
And they also use primium dies
I also dont worry about concentricity anymore. Do your own test. Take a good shooting load and skew the bullet in the case. See if it matters at 1000 yard. It didn't with me.
@@SAUM76 as all rifles ar not the same, your results aren't really universal, im not saying concentricity is a major factor however ive seen rifles that did benifit form have more concertric loads, but improvements here would refer to 0.1 to 0.2 mao at 100m ( ist difficult to find ranges longer than 200-300m in Johannesburg)
@@SAUM76 also its important to note that the main cause of the problem was die set up
After there dies wher correctly settled up it was smooth sailing,
Changing the game. Innovative. Revolutionary. Gavin sold out, hope you didn't watch the train wreck video
He had been selling stuff for a while now. He gets what he needs then some. But totally a commercial
Waagh
I have a creedmoor with the mandrel. Love the neck shoulder bushings. Waiting on the 6.5x47 which is shortly coming. Its an amazing die. Pretty much 0 runout on a .0005 gage. I have the seating die as well. Just as good as the sizing die.
Just bought this die because of your recomendations. It is the nicest die I have owned, very well made.
The consistency of the shoulder bump is amazing. That makes it worth the money. Also the fact that you are using the neck bushing with a mandrel all at the same time will eliminate one step of the process for those of us that use expander mandrels. I am excited to try one of these SAC dies.
Proud to be from the same state as SAC. Their products are phenomenal.
It would be nice to see warner tool company wtc sizing dies they say there the best it would be nice if you could review them..
My thoughts also. I believe WTC are even pricier than than SAC dies.
Just picked this up for my 6GT, wow! this is amazing!
I just don’t see the need for the extra parts. More complex does not equal higher quality. Whidden, along with some other manufacturers, already have a sizing die that is adjustable without turning the die body up and down. You just turn a thimble like many seating dies. So, already the process of adjusting shoulder bump is far more complicated (and a pain for those of us that don’t do well with tiny parts) than their competition. The only “modularity” I see here is the interchangeable neck bushing and swapping the decap rod for non decap. Which are features of nearly every single bushing sizer on the market. Calling this a modular die is misleading at best. Was hoping for some other insert that somehow changed caliber…or something that would make this not specific to each caliber. That would be modular and novel. Neither of which describe this die.
I’m glad it at least gives solid concentricity…but again, that’s nothing novel and can be done for 1/3 the cost with most any good match die. Really starting to feel that your reviews are more infomercial than honest review. Never seen a product you weren’t happy with. Chalked that up to you only reviewing (read promoting) products you thought were good. Which has its own issues, but this “review” has brought me to the light. I can’t see anyone holding this product at its price point and agreeing with its marketing. It’s just an over engineered sizing die (having an ER style collet to hold a decap rod…Really?) that does the same thing even “non-adjustable” (not modular?) sizers do….it resizes brass with consistent results. Neat. That’ll be $325 plus the cost of bushing that are double the cost of our competitors. If you were at all truly honest you would post a new video ripping the marketing and over engineering to shreds while giving them a nod for solid concentricity at way too high a price.
All what he said. 👆
Agreed.
Need a die? Find a good gunsmith and have them make a die for your rifles chamber. I’ll take Jack Neary’s advice.
The Whidden die is great, but you cannot use that feature in a Dillon press. John Whidden told me this.
I like how the the shoulder is incorporated into the neck bushing, reminiscent of the Forster bump die. The collet design is a good one, as is the shim control. But at some point the price makes one question the diminishing returns on real world accuracy. I guess if you have the money, why not?
The ER collet gave me a chuckle. We used them as mini drill chucks on multi hole cutting gearboxes I occasionally designed at a fabrication equipment business. I like that smaller collet, where space is limited for close pattern cuts.
I love your content but it would be nice to see how all this stuff shows up on target. Comparisons between your old dies to these new ones, what kind of improvements do you see
Johnnys reloading bench just did a video on sizer dies that he owns. His best group was with cheap old lee full length die. I like the idea of showing if spending that kind of money actually makes a difference.
@@jasoneverett7343 fair statement. but he also isn't shooting one hole groups with wild cat cartridges that are reload only, out of a full custom gun. so if you going to compare a lee die to something not even in the same universe as quality, make sure you quantify it with factual information that is appropriate.
@@animalmother2242 good point. Comparing how these dies or new processes affect results on target will be completely different between a good custom gun and a factory one.
Animalmother224 I guess that's why we are asking to show actual comparison on target. JRB did a comparison with what he had. From 20$ lee sizers to 200$ sizers. His best group with a cheap rifle was with his lee die. It would be awesome for Gavin to put his test on target with a better gun and sizers.
A die this expensive caters to a very select and small group of shooters (competitors). $375 for one die is out of bounds for everyone else.
True this is reserved for the truly anal of the truly anal re-loaders who have money to burn, then there's the rest of us.
I'm a roofer and am an owner of a SAC sizing die for 6 Dasher. Yes, only spent this much because I wanted a modular sizing die since 6 dasher is a wildcat round and I attend PRS matches. Had to save up for a bit to afford it, but glad I have it now.
Same way I feel about the Fatboy tripod and ball head I just bought. I never thought I'd spend 1k+ on a tripod setup, but its a night/day difference in how stable it is compared to the cheaper tripods out there.. sometimes you get what you pay for. Other times you get ripped off. Hopefully the SAC die is one of the times I get what I paid for. Will find out in a month or so when my dasher barrel arrives.
@@perchowski3021
Another component to this discussion, other than affordability is, does it make a difference for the specific buyer? From what I’ve seen, most people can’t shoot well enough to know the difference between SAC stuff (which I have and it’s great) and a Hornady die set. No matter how much money they throw at an issue, they are over their skis from the first shot.
I saw a guy at a PRS match with a AI rifle topped with a S&B scope. He talked a big game with his custom reamed Newlon dies, his A Tip bullets, custom sewn bags and so on. He finished 93rd out of 110 competitors. Nothing is going to help an over compensator was my point. That narrows the field, even further. I will never bitch about quality of the associated costs. That’s how I earn a living. I’d rather err on the side of too good than almost good enough but there is a value factor to account for.
@@tinfoilsombrero1439 Can I tell the difference in group sizes using the SAC die? I doubt it but I won't be able to give an opinion even for another month or so at least, which is when my 6 dasher barrel should be done. My RCBS, Redding, and Forster dies all produce highly accurate ammunition so I really don't think I'll see any difference in performance.
Now regarding correct sizing and adjustability with the SAC die vs. others since 6 dasher is still a wildcat cartridge, you definitely have more adjustability to size your brass with the SAC die which is the only reason I bought it. I didn't want to have any issues like I've read about others having regarding getting dies that don't size their cartridges correctly. I've read about people having a Alpha chambered 6 dasher having issues with their dies because they were for Lapua chambered 6 dasher. Another issue I've talked to other shooters about is dies not able to size their brass enough to chamber. So I wanted to get a modular sizing die that I could adjust more if needed, and SAC was/is the most modular die that I know of so that is what I went with. Excited to eventually get to try it out, right now it's just sitting in the die drawer collecting dust.
Regarding people that overcompensate with gear, gear is no good unless you are proficient with it. For example a few of my buddies had tripods I could have used when I shot matches and I declined even on a stage where everyone used one. I had never shot with one before so I knew it would be more trouble than it would help me most likely since I had never practiced with one.
The weekend after that match I was practicing with a few guys and gave the tripod a try on the swinging window stage that I didn't use the tripod on at the match the weekend prior where I only hit 2/8. Anyone that did good on that stage used a tripod, so I wanted to give it a try and learn how to use it proficiently.
I shot that stage a few times and only dropped 1 shot one time and I believe 2 shots the other. Huge improvement from the 2/8 I did without the tripod.
So I finally decided to bite the bullet and buy a good tripod. Once I got it I practiced with it in my garage dryfiring. I've only had it for a week but I've been practicing with it every other day so I definitely feel comfortable enough to use it in a match now.
A lot of people think they can buy their way to the top. You might be able to buy a few extra points with some top quality gear, but unless you practice with said gear and become proficient using it it won't help you nearly as much as if you spent that money on practicing instead.
I'm still very new to PRS and have a lot to learn and improve on, I learned a while ago in this sport that it's much better to buy once and get it over with rather than buying the cheaper item. For example I wanted a autotrickler/A&D120i setup but didn't want to spend over 1k on powder measuring, so I went with the Frankford Arsenal intelidropper.
Intelidropper worked good for a while, but eventually realized it was taking more of my time to reload since the intellidropper is so slow.
I ended up ordering what I should have gotten originally and luckily got the A&DFX120I before the autotrickler because my intellideopper ended up crashing and not working. Called FA and they won't have any until October which is right about the time my autotrickler will be arriving.
Bottom line is we are all learning more about this sport as we go and you will never stop learning in this sport. What I like the most is that no matter your age, you can be competitive in this sport as long as you practice and know your rifle and how your bullet flies. I'm glad I finally found a sport I enjoy that I can do for the rest of my life, because I know I won't be able to ride motorcycles forever 😉
@@perchowski3021
I agree with everything you wrote. I have a 260 Rem that doesn’t fit RCBS or Redding dies. It goes with any sport as well. I have competed at high levels in golf and competitive bass fishing. You’re not going to the top by cutting corners when the guys to the left and right of you are as good or better than you. Yes, the rod may be $400 and the 3W shaft may be the same but that’s the game. A good player/shooter with the same gear is going to smoke you if you’re not playing the same way. The issue I have is, some of these folks presenting things like they are priced for the common man. They’re not. They are expensive for what they do. I like quality stuff that I know how to use. I have no need for a Prometheus. It’s cool but not for me. Talking about one or presenting it as though it’s a Lyman beam scale and everyone should own two of them grates on me a bit. That’s where my original comment was based. I appreciate quality more than most. Telling or insinuating to new reloaders that a $400 die is run of the mill is detrimental to the sport. I loaded for a decades using plain ol’ RCBS dies. I achieved excellent results. I never, ever, ever wish to go back to that rudimentary way of reloading from where I am now but I eased into my tooling and built my skill set. It’s all fun and I will never denigrate peoples’ pursuit of it. Disclaimers are sometimes needed. There are lots of options out there.
Interesting. But to my mind concentricity isnt a big issue with good dies, and partial neck sizing is better for 2 reasons :
- to avoid any contact between the bullet and the donut area at the neck/shoulder junction
- to center the neck when chambering (unsized part of the neck)
The die I'm looking for would be a FL Bushing sizing die that would leave the case head at the diameter of my chamber (still looking for it).
Damn, gentlemen...
I just got my new Redding bushing dies working great... In a moment, your laptop, your phone, your pickup, your reloading process is obsolete. That tool is amazing! Bullet seating next, right?
That’s pretty impressive Gavin 👍🏼
That was absolutely awesome comedy short action custom dies. Are phenomenal. Can't wait to see the bullet seater.
I miss your old background with the lathe and machinery.
This looks like some old 1970's grandpa background. Not that they're anything wrong with that, but this background looks like cable access, not some bad ass reloading setup
Meanwhile Johnny reloading bench got his best results with a 10 dollar Lee die.
air statement. but he also isn't shooting one hole groups with wild cat cartridges that are reload only, out of a full custom gun. so if you going to compare a lee die to something not even in the same universe as quality, make sure you quantify it with factual information that is appropriate.
@@animalmother2242 fair enough
Was just thinking the same thing.
Competitive Shooters should love the precision and time savings , and longer brass life using these dies . I load for many different cartridges for friends and family. I load to SAMI factory specs. Everything I load fits the case gage. I only custom handload for me. I get the results i want with standard dies .
Very interesting,. Very interested. Took a look and thought that price would just be absurdly, ridiculously priced, it's isn't, for what you're getting. I need the Creedmoor die, for I'v 6mm, 25 & 6.5, when they're back in stock, that is.
Looks interesting.
Let’s see a review on cortina precision dies
I would love to see this compared to the Mighty Armory's Gold Match sizing dies. I've been easily achieving less than .0005 with the two different calibers I have.
I was going to ask the same question, I bought the Mighty Armory Gold Match Sizing Die in .223 and later in .308, then added Redding Competition shell holders to get consistent shoulder bump, great combination. I’m not sure how the SAC could make it much better. Doing this and using your rifle chamber to fit head space made it not only easier but more accurate. 👍
@@lutherprice2062 I have six of their sizing dies now (Mighty Armory) and love them. I wish they'd develop rifle caliber seating dies. I just got through buying and returning more than a few seating dies that just weren't consistent enough, and for different reasons. They all handled the task a bit differently, probably because of patents. Forster came close, but use it with even a lightly compressed load and you'll quickly ruin the seating stem.. The next rung up the ladder was SAC's seating die and they did it right.. love it. I doubt any single brand will ever be the best at everything so seeing how we build the best, how we select the best possible set of dies for a given caliber, even if each die comes from a different manufacturer.. I'd love to see how UR handles that.
I’m still in the learning curve for this hobby and whoever said you’ll save money reloading your own is nuts but I do enjoy it. One of the best things about Mighty Armory dies is if you have a question, call Wayne, the guy that builds them, and he can answer them. I only reload .223 and .308 and bought MA sizing dies for both and Redding Competition Micrometer Seating dies and couldn’t believe the difference, easily staying under .0001” on the concentricity gauge. Now if I can get my trigger finger calibrated I might shoot some great groups👍
@@lutherprice2062 You'll save money if you only shoot moderately.. in the end. I started reloading in the early 90's and I started with inexpensive equipment and for a long time reloaded tens of thousands of rounds on a single stage and finally a Hornady lock and load press using mostly Hornady and Lee dies. I saved a bunch. But.. as I practiced more and challenged myself to shoot better.. especially when I started each sessoin with a "shoot plan", I was wasting less money on ammo I didn't need to shoot and ganging more skill with the ammo I did. Kind of like going to a grocery store with a shopping list and sticking to it.
And then something happened. CZcams. And I discovered all the bells and whistles and toys I never knew I absolutely had to have. Like going to a grocery store without a list AND when really hungry. In the end I've increased my skills and collection of toys past the point of any practical hunting, self defense, or even military skill set. And I suppose that's what a hobby is.. something you do because you enjoy it and it's not necessarily but can be practical.
This year I've shot over 20,000 rounds of various ammunition, mostly .223/5.56mm, 7.62x51mm, 6mmARC, .224 Valkyrie, .300blk, .270, and .300winmag..and lets not forget the vulnerable 9mm.. So I've saved a bunch over store bought ammo. Especially over the last few years when I was often the only one at our range because few had ammo to shoot and most of those were reloaders.
I was lucky to have a friend and mentor that had reloaded for 60+ years and retired as a ballistics specialist for the Tennessee Bureau Investigation, when he
That is awesome guys. Thank you
dies look to be of very high quality, and am sure with a proper operator, one would get supreme ammo. However I do have one issue and it's kind of off topic, but at minute 8:28 into the video you mention to set the prozzi press up with a slight cam over feel. The instructions for the Prazzi Press instructs you to not do this because of the bearing design of the press. It puts undue pressure on them and could lead to premature wear. Die should be screwed in until it touches the shell holder only.
This is awesome ‼️ 👍
I love my SAC seater, makes me wonder why I waited so long to get it.
Can you use this die without a decapping pin and without expander mandrel?
I go to be honest. It looks like a pain in the ass to me. JMHO.
I’m currently using the Redding Type S dies with an LE Wilson Mandrel in a Dillon 550 progressive press. Do you feel like this would give better concentricity and smaller ES and smaller SDs then my current set up? It might be worth doing a comparison of match grade bushing die vs this new die to see which one performs better. Definitely an interesting video. Thanks for posting!
Bolt Action Reloading did a video using Short action Custom standard bushing and it shrunk his groups considerably
@@alansmith2985 I shoot 1/4” to 3/8”groups consistently at 100 yards with my 6 Dasher. I’m not sure it would make a drastic difference in my case.
@@alansmith2985 however if it improves them with this die set I would still be willing to upgrade.
Awesome video like always
Do the shims need to be replaced after so many uses, e.g. because they "crush" after X many resizing operations?
Another question I have is how this system compares to Area 419 Zero Modular Shellholder System for shoulder bump? The Area 419 shell holder inserts are not what comes into contact with the base of the cartridge, I think.
thanks for video
Looks like a mini Warner
How do you compare the SAC modular die to the Area 419 m series modular die. Need to know the facts please. I’m interested in buying one of them but need a honest opinion please.
QVC time
@Travis Fox i was being sarcastic
So if this die eliminates any variances in concentricity where does the excess brass material go ?
When I measure the neck sidewalls of my 223 cases they vary from .009 to .011. depending on what side I measure.
Tell me where does the excess material go ?
I've had two rifles built by SAC and use the SAC die for the 6BRA. However, I still use a neck expander mandrel to ensure the neck tension is perfect. Why have an additional step? Consistency assured where it makes a difference. Using Lapua brass, runout is usually not a problem and I have found no difference in accuracy when it comes to runout - it's within a half thou with Lapua in my SAC machined barrels. Both LE Wilson and SAC are top notch jewelry...um, dies.
For me its been just a step reduction - I do the mandrel operation when resizing - I thought I would do it in my 21st century die but saw no difference doing it in two steps- or if you do - then doing two mandrel operations (so in steps - .2625 then .2630) give you great results. I luckily got the neck tension I needed without doing so. Overall great die, no extra expanding step (for me at least), plus I can use the same die for 6 and 6.5mm. I agree on the concentricity not mattering at the amounts we are talking about but its pretty neat that it comes out at 0.
Hi Don, I totally agree. I've never seen any accuracy issues with concentricity under 4 thousands of runout. Usually runout on my cartridges is under 0.002' so I dont make concentricity tests anymore. Neck tension consistency between 2 reloadings has way more effect on my group sizes. Now I'm thinking that nevermind the kind of dies or technique you use, the most important is to reload EXACTLY the same way each time to keep your "good loads" in tune. CONSISTENCY !
er-11 collets max out at 7mm
small bore only...
$375
neck size only
that's a hard no
So a question. Is this SAC Die considered to be a Neck Sizing Die or a Full Length Sizing Die???
Hello, Is this die compatible with the Forster Press ? Thank you, Dan
What bushing were you using? .266? and what mandrel size?
Question, is it only available in 6.5??? Useless to me if yes
@Travis Fox thanks for update and quick reply
Is it a dental pick your using to fish out the shims and bushing?
Awesome video! Quick question im new to reloading and look at all your videos for assistance and expertise, After lubing and size do you remove the lube from inside the neck before adding powder?
YES
How does the ER11 collett size the neck when the neck bush is in place?
Did you use a standard to set the indicator zero?
he literally said he used a ground drill rod as a control for the concentricity gauge. the indicator doesn't have to be set to zero to show runout.
Mark Gordon is a smart man. This is literally the best die there is. When he showed me prototypes I was astounded by the design.
I want a set of SAC dies but it would probably hurt when my wife used them on my head after seeing the price lol
What does it mean if your cases don't have a consistent headspacing after full length sizing?
You need to anneal your brass cases. I will affect your accuracy in a match type target rifle. May not notice in the average Hunting rifle.
Super cool, but the price tag hurt my soul.
What press is that?
Why not go the extra step and put a taper on the neck/shoulder bushing. Just the fact the bushing slides in/out with ease means it has SOME clearance. If you are truly looking for perfection......seems like this would be a version 2.0.
Also, rather than use those cheesy runout gages that give plenty of false readings while you are rotating the round with your finger.......come up with a better way.
Short action customs has repeatedly molested my wallet.
Bow let’s go to the range and find out that I’m still wanting in my position.
The only thing this die will give me is a lighter wallet.
If this die is so good why aren't the elite long range shooters using it?
It seems nice and overpriced...........
3x more than I would spend.
Sorry!
Not for the standard reloader.
It’s a review of a product - not a review of anyone’s personal reloading tool budget.
Who the hell is Russel@@Russell-1
Gavin, your conversations with your co-host disrupt the learning experience. The explainations and instruction were much more concise, making your channel a very good learning experience with you doing all of the instruction and demos. Just an FYI.
For heaven sakes we can't see wtf he's doing
Your videos are always to far back when doing stuff find the zoom on your cam please
Great product as it seems? This just like all of the over engineered German cars sold, over priced and over engineered. The lee collet style die will be good enough at a very reasonable price. Keep it simple stupid? I have never seen a product this guy Gavin Tobe didn't like, have you?