BLACKWATER: How to Safely Set Up Low Ph, High Tannin, Acidic Aquariums. The World of Archaea & Fungi
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2021
- BLACKWATER: How to Safely Set Up A Low Ph, High Tannin Aquarium. The Alien Biome of Archaea & Fungi. How to turn an existing aquarium into a blackwater biome / biotope aquarium using all natural leaves, wood and tannins. Also how the normal nitrogen cycle becomes completely disrupted by acidic water, and why seasoning your water, choosing the right species of aquatic plants (perhaps floating aquarium plants or aquatic plants growing emersed). The biological and ecological history of earth and how anoxic or anaerobic nitrogen cycles evolved from archaea and Fungi. buckle up and get ready to talk fish keeping in blackwater tanks, by safely altering the water parameters within your aquarium- be it your first time or if you're a seasoned pro, used to high tech tanks, I hope there is a little something to learn for everyone watching here. enjoy!
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I just want to say that this is the best explanation of setting up a blackwater tank on CZcams.
People make plenty of tanks but no one explains the working of them! Cheers for the guide!
Thank you kindly. Im glad you enjoyed it
i'm just getting into this hobby, and i think it's so cool that blackwater is a new thing, especially considering i grew up swimming in blackwater habitats, it's cool to see them represented
Oh right on! Well, welcome to the darkside
It’s so refreshing to find someone on CZcams that uses 3 syllable words correctly.
Haha. Welcome! I try and peer review cite anything that's not "common knowledge"... and sometimes even if it I'd, I have a source if people want em they can ask. I used to post it all.... literally 2 people ever read a Google doc I had going for 2 years lol. I'm guilty of finding a trusted source and then not ever double checking things ( well unless they sound incorrect I suppose.) But society as a whole needs some help or education on how to research sources
I just found you from the whole Joey being an actual child situation, and thank GOD I did. these videos are such a hidden gem. I love how you give historical facts, as well as scientific information; not to mention the great length you go to explain. My buddy and I have had so much trouble getting a working blackwater tank for his samurai gourami. You’ve definitely earned 2 new subscribers.
Hey well, welcome my friends! Make yourself at home, and please feel free to share any questions, comments or cool knowledge, with this community. It's all about learning and uplifting one another! Have a great weekend guys! Cheers
I think you give great informational content, you work hard at learning, and I appreciate it.
Thanks for another great video Alex. Hope you are healing xx
Sure I read quite recently about Archaea probably being more important in our tanks than nitrifying bacteria.Nature is constantly amazing👍🌎♥️
Yay! A discussion about black water aquariums!!!
I really love them, but have sort of been keeping 6.5 and partial tannic tanks for spawning, but this winter I want to spawn some nano fish that really want true biotope tannin levels
Great information! I'm ready for part 2!
Thanks Danny. I appreciate it
This is so informative! Great job, fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝 Keep it up 🙌
Boosting for the algorithm 🙌 Love your work, keep it up! 🌻🐝
I love watching your posts! You obviously are knowledgeable, do tons of research, and are a guru of complex micro ecosystems. Not to mention all your 1st hand (and 2nd hand) experience. Keep on keep’n on my friend.
Hey thank you very kindly for the support and encouraging words 🙏. I try and simply learn as much as I can, and then share the process with viewers. I'm really glad that it is at least somewhat effective hehe. Thanks for dropping a comment and your thoughts. Have a wonderful weekend 😀
This is spot on this is helpful info every u learn something new. ❤
oooh ooh ooh. I love this!!
Excellent presentation. Very informative- thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very interesting topics. 👍
I've always been a big fan of the dark tannin tanks, thanks for another banger bro
So glad you enjoyed it!
I love your channel. Great discussion. I could listen to you forever. Intellectuals are so rare these days.
Hah well thank you very kindly! Iam honored to hear that from you. I too found the lack of peer reviewed or sourced academic material in the hobby/on CZcams, to be frustrating. So I decided to make a channel based around distilling the info I learn and read, and hopefully making it slightly more accessible without dumbing it down too much.
I appreciate your support and viewership! Thanks again... and also. There are almost 900 videos of mine now, so you can probably listen to them for quite a while haha.
Have a great week. Cheers, Alex.
Black water aquariums look so nice
I find your videos very informative and enjoyable to watch. You are a breath of fresh air in the CZcams fish world as 95% of it is the blind leading the blind😂 I am amazed you dont have a larger following, your 40k subs do not do your channel justice. Thank you for taking the time to educate people in this wonderful hobby. You also take the time to answer the comments fully which have been posted years after the video was aired. This is a rarity on youtube. Well done sir
Thanks. I wish i made more money i suppose... but i love this community and being able to learn from as well as teach viewers. So much to learn in such a huge hobby
Amazing video I love all the information
So nice of you to say so. Thank you
I hijacked my wife’s phone and watched the video on her phone lol…. but your stuff is always amazing.
Did is great. I live near the ocean in cambodia and alot of the streams and river are brackish with biodiversity. Its truly underrated topic in the hobby
Oh I agree! I'd love to see more tanks with the estuary / river delta brackish theme! Cambodia Is amazing
Love the sub pop records hat!
Im a seattle native... i think it's required lol
Very interesting video. I have 5 blackwater setups myself. 2 of them are dirted. I wish the other 3 were but that was before i learned about dirted setups. All 5 of them are thriving. Botanicals from tannin Aquatics and tons of leaf litter fuel these setups. Very important indeed!
Right on! What species do you keep?
Well this was good timing! I bought a bunch of botanicals to provide cover for my black worm population before I put my betta back in and I didn't even think about the ph effects!
Right on! Interestingly, the green leaves are neutral usually, but dried end up acidic
Great info! I just want to note that a plenum is an empty space beneath the substrate. Usually created with a supported mesh plate of some sort. It creates an atmosphere for anaerobic bacteria that live in no oxygen zones. The "slow moving plenum supports a different kind of bacteria that thrives in low oxygen environments.
Yes most definitely. Also that bacteria need iron carbon and Sulphur more than the aerobic nitrobacter.
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!! You have NO idea how much I needed this video! My pea puffers are on hold for my tank to get itself together and I just found out they need black water, and clearly no matter how many hours of research I do I keep finding out there are many advice columns/tutorials that are having me spin my wheels with their lies and mistakes! 😢 All while I just want my puffers home with me 😫 luckily I can trust you and for that I appreciate you so much!!! 😊❤
Theyll be fine in neutral waters, or black waters :) some even do fine in brackish. Most are wild collected from the Malabar river though. You may like my video on pea puffers "spotlight" on them.
@@Fishtory thanks! These are tank raised so I’m thinking they will do fine; I made sure to get tank bred since the species is near extinct because of us fish people 🥺 I’m hoping to breed mine 🤞🏻
Your pair of albino paradise are stunning! Paradise gouramis have been a fav of mine for decades, congrats on the spawning of them. I haven’t attempted that yet, and I just don’t know why I haven’t… the black water aquarium sounds like a great challenging project🙂👍🏻
Thank you! Yes they're very neat fish...they can be mean in community settings, but they are can be calmed with lots of floating weeds and plants. Out of sight , out of mind- they sleep in the corner down low, but in the day they stay at the very top of the water
The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium yes aggressive and beautiful, I may try something similar to one of my aquariums, I plan to try and spawn some apistos agassizii dbl reds. Thanks for all the great information, very much appreciated.
I have used distilled water + borianic acid to get the ph down as low as 4.5. I get oak leaves from yard boil them along alder cones , boiled peat moss. I use dirt , sand , fluval +leaf liter for substrate. Various types of wood and java ferns.
I often use Pothos plants directly in the water for filtration purposes sometimes with a sponge sometimes without , the only thing is the pothos will suck the dark coloration out of the water!
I usually don't test anything once its set up and do very small water changes once in a while, when I'm trying to breed stuff I let the water level get real low then top off.
I maybe reckless with it but once I get my initial parameters set up I let it go. I have had black water gouramis and betta breed and thrive .
I think that even if you get tank raised specimens of species that come from the peat swamps, ditches and rice patties they will really do well in the black water set up. I have a colony of sparkling gouramis that breed like guppies almost in a black water tank that came from TR fish and have easily breed them in regular tank s but not like this .
I have never tried a Rio Negro/Amazonian set up.
Yeah that's similar stuff to how I first tried blackwater. I also found gouramis of all sorts to be darn bear guppy level reproductive! Sparkling gouramis are nice since the babies go to the top and the parents hangout low in the day...then at night sometimes they switch. I found bettas, gouramis, woodcats and micro rasboras all spawned well in the set up you described. Although some tetra needed Nets, marbles or dividers for eggs to survive. Great info though, thank you!
Thanks Alex 🤩 Great info and timing 😘👍 Currently preparing an Upgrade blackwater tank for Dwarf Rasboras, have leaf litter ‘seasoning’ in bucket of tannin water outside, driftwood too and sphagnum moss inside soaking to lower ph for water changes 🤪🌿🐟
Nice! That's always a fun science /chemistry experiment 😉
@@Fishtory Cheers, I love it, especially the things you don’t mean to do but then stuff happens, yep nature science 🤪 I trust all your mouth work is on track too😘
@@sunsetjen2398 hhaha youre braver than me then ;)
very ineresting subject! Hope you can get the tank stable.
Thanks
You have explained some very interesting concepts, thanks. I have been branching out into soil microorganisms in soil on land. You have helped connect some of the dots for me. One thing that I have learned is that we may not have enough types microorganisms to complete the lifecycle. One of the recommendations was to go into a "old growth forest" and collect a table spoon of soil for inoculation. I'm thinking an area near ponds edge or a swamp would be perfect for what you're doing.
100% and all my tanks have mulm and mud cultures from the wet land ponds along Lake Washington in warm summer months. For the micro-fauna and the Fungi, Archeae and bacteria.
I have been long working on a project that you may be interested in... I'm contacting trans-shippers from Nigeria, Papua NG , Thailand, Colombia, and Brazil.. and going to try and facilitate a few gallons of substrate, mulm and botanicals being imported overnight and then being grown out on 50 to 100 gallon totes for 6 months...and then trying to get starters of "biome in a bottle" for hobbyists.
This is reminiscent of what Father Fish is doing; I'm experimenting and have switched to deep substrate, sand cap over dirt with plants.
@@shaneadmusson7740 yes father fish and I share quite a bit of our thought process on tanks. A lot more people seem to be finally understanding that a tank that looks a bit mulm ridden and has a tiny algae or tannin tint and soil or leaves on the bottom... yeah those are way less work and stay more stable than the pristine Clown confetti neon gravel and plastic plants that people seem to think are so "clean"
This very much reminds me of permaculture.
Where you plant your garden on top of fallen wood, with soil.
Makes incredibly rich soil and the veggies are loaded with flavor.
I throw in old wood, and chopped up leaves in my garden. Really makes rich soil!
Great to see a video from a person who is fascinated by the habitat, chemistry and evolution behind the plants and fish. There are so many "fish pimps" out there on the internet who don't give a shit about that stuff.
Great video.
P.S. I live in Tasmania, our river water looks like black tea. I've been swimming in these rivers all of my life and I love the look.
(Check out the Tasmanian freshwater crayfish)
Oh thanks for the suggestion! Also, thanks for your experience and info...I'd love to hear more about Tasmania and the native freshwater fish
@@Fishtory tasmanian freshwater crayfish grows to over 80 centemeters (31 inches) long, 6 kilograms (13 pounds) which is like an overwheight house cat and lives up to 70 years old. They love the cold tannin rich waters of the north west of the state (called the 'Tarkine' region).
Me: excellent, got my pH down to 8.0 💪
Haha I feel for yall with the liquid rock water at times like this
LMAO from saltwater to... still saltwater XD
I'm starting at a pH of 8 in two heavily planted tanks I've added chopped up almond leaves to. Both have had almond leaves in them before but those have almost entirely disintegrated by now, barely visible at all anymore, and both have mushy driftwood in them too 😂
@@minagica I remember doing a test in a bucket with almond leaves, and to get my water from 8.2 to 7.6ish, it was so dark I couldn’t see the bottom of a 3g bucket. Lol
@@robertjohnston25 😁 I got rid of a bunch of the water and replaced it with distilled water. Haven't measured the pH since the refill, though
I have found that it is a PITA to battle PH. That being said I have only one tank . When I set up the tank I tried to use RO water from my fridge filter to get PH close to neutral. This just made my fish struggle because every local place I was buying fish from was just dealing with what the local water was serving up ,which was PH from 7.5 to 8.5. My testing and conversations with a local brick and mortar store convinced me to stop fighting PH. This along with minimal water changes has made my tank much healthier.
Yes fighting ph isnt worth it unless you are spawning a special species that requires low or high ph
I've noticed that frog bit and guppy grass hate the dark water. I've even recently played with the mini val and it doesn't seem to be happy. Now in a aquarium with just a slight dark water tint the aforementioned seem to do good. I noticed that my catfish in both aquariums seem to lose their appetite when the water is to dark and will regain their appetite when it becomes lighter. The Betta seem to do well no matter how dark the water gets. I've even noticed their color becoming more vibrant while they soak in the super dark water. It's all very interesting, I do think we all should experiment more with dark water.
Thanks for the experience. Details!
Huh, in my experience my frogbit has grown like weeds and I end up taking some out and trading it in to the local fish store every couple of weeks, I’ve been trying to find more plants I can incorporate in my black water aquarium setup to absorb nitrates and phosphates out of the water. I feel like I am so close to being able to get my aquarium filterless!
Good morning friend
Good morning to you, sir!
I actually watch this video just for your fish. 😉
Just as warning: acidic water with KH of
I know I'm late to the party but I love your videos. I appreciate the research that goes into them and your perspectives and the breadth of knowledge is impressive. I have ADHD and my hyperfocus frequently has me researching very random things.
This is the first video that I've seen that I've really disagreed with. Don't get me wrong, the majority of the stuff regarding blackwater tanks is great, I still think it's a great video. The only issue I have is with the effects of very acidic water.
There are two things here, 1) high rate nitrification (by both AOA and AOB) is completely possible in highly acidic water and 2) plants can absolutely thrive in highly acidic water
I have scientific sources for the first thing in particular, but I also have two aquariums. Both are high-tech aquascapes. One has a pH of 6.1 before CO² injection (5.0 during the day) and the other is 5.3 before CO² injection (4.3 during the day). I have about 50 species of plants between the two tanks that are quite happy, and not just because of the CO², it took time to set up and disk in the CO² systems so both of them ran for several months before I could put CO² on them
I hear you and plants will die in wild waters below about 5ph in most cases... also i think you misunderstood what i meant about watching for your nitritying bacteria dying and nitrates climinging ...or rather ammonia if its below 6.5ph or so... it evaporates out as a gas in low ph, but your fish have bacterial and fungal biomes, as do plant roots and dropping ph...or raising it suddenly can crash things for a number of reasons. And anyone new to the blackwater tanks should be aware of the somewhat unknown organic chemistry under 6.0
... it appears archaea and yeast or fungi help fix nitrogen and convert it all sorts of ways when the nitrosomas and nitrobactcilis are too acidic to survive.
@@Fishtoryby micro rasboras do you mean boraras? Have you managed to breed them?
It's really weird, but I just got done setting up a planted blackwater tank, and it took under a week to cycle. Threw in some ammonia, and it spiked, but turbo'd through the rest of the ruglar process in a few days. I did use the filter media, some substrate, and a few plants from one of my established tanks, so maybe that did it? I put some nerites in, and they did great, and nothing spiked in the water. Two days later, I put a couple of neon tetras in, and they seem to be happy. It's been a little over a week now, and I threw 4 pepper corys in yesterday, and everyone seems fine. Im a little nervous. I've never had a tank cycle anywhere near that fast. Even though everything seems fine, I think the fluval aquasoil I used is buffering the ph pretty low.
That filter media did it :) cheers! Enjoy
I'm very excited my good sir, my store got Parosphromenus parvulus and I'm going to give them a try. keeping my fingers crossed I'll be able to keep the pH low enough! Vancouver water is odd for ph - it's basically RO water, but I have a 15 gallon tank with like 3 inches of leaf litter and the pH is only like 6.8!
Haha same here unless I really really work at it with heavy duty botanicals (alder cones, mopani wood etc)
@@Fishtory so far so good! I'm adding a concentrate at about 10-20 ml per day to a 15 gallon tank (it's capped Tropica soil, so no buffering there). down to about 6.5 after 4 days. Onwards!
Something I plan to do ever since I had been collecting tetras. I just lack space and my current tanks have plants I can not lose. I do color up from time to time to make with tannins to make it aesthetically blackwater but not true blackwater.
Oh nice. Do you have a favorite botanical that you use for coloring without tossing the chemistry way off?
@@Fishtory I've never really had any way to know my quantitative parameters since I started the keeping aquariums during the start of this global situation. I rely on the fish's reaction and background info from the web if they can take it ( so far, no negative reactions from what I have ). My location, a highland pine forest and relatively isolated town, doesn't really give me a lot of options for botanicals. Local stores only provide Catappa leaves and there's some alder trees growing around.
@@Fishtory I’m trying some pacific madrone I collected. I’ve read the berries and bark have quite a bit of tannin..
Hi Alex! Been watching your videos and I want to say thank you out of the gate for all the helpful info! I was today years old when I realized I should be preparing more blackwater for my 5.5 gallon tank. I've just been using my tap water (dechlorinated) for water changes and here I've been wondering wHy iS tHe pH sTiLL sO hIgH?? So thanks, I will need to get a bucket of blackwater going, haha
Haha no worries my friend. Best wishes!
One day I have to try the high tannin set up maybe for a paludarium.
Oh that would be rad! I'd love to see it if you do!
So since the tannins stain the water do I need to use paper test strips to get an accurate reading or are you still able to use an API master test kit the liquid drops? I have a very black water nano set up, kind of paludarium deal going on I want to add Scarlet Badis to but I want to test my water first.
Yeah the tests still work but may have a slightly more yellow color ... but if your ph is lower than 6.5 you may find that the nitrates and ammonia are always zero, since it chemically renders them safe and also causes them to evaporate out
@@Fishtory that’s so nutty I never knew about that. Love learning this! No wonder tannins are so beneficial to some animals. :)
For the algorithm!!
Really fun video, I will look up the follow-ups as well!
Where or how do I find this research you mention/reference? I'm comfortable sifting through science articles, and would want to complement what aquarium experts are saying with actual research. Why I'd want to see and read it is because I like knowing in general, and want a better understanding of how to make my own aquarium in a no-nonsense way if possible. I want to set up a more shallow dark tank with some dwarf gourami (probably, or some other labyrinth fish) and have a natural look to it. If I actually want to go down the route of low pH I don't know yet, and is where I feel I lack knowledge necessary to even make that decision.
For example, I'd argue that fly fishing is in one half a genuine art form in its own right (making these super beautiful artificial fly), and in second half knowledge about what works to attract fish to an artificial fly (which can get a bit silly imo if someone says something like you need to mimic local insects and their seasons perfectly). The second part can be dubious sometimes when hearing it explained as it can fail to account for how fish actually work biologically (the science), but the old fly fisherman's experience and success rate in getting fish is never in question. They have developed methods that give the result they want over time! I see a similar pattern in the aquarium hobby (or any hobby, really) where people's experience is used instead of looking at the science. It really can make it difficult to interpret and implement when 10 respected experts say 10 different things while *all* have the satisfactory result to prove that _their_ way of doing it works. Adam Ragusea here on youtube is a great example and resource about the science of cooking, and does some hobbyist at-home testing of some claims related to that, and it's super entertaining to watch. The science really helps my poor brain to navigate this.
100% i post my sources either in descriptions... or if they are pdfs and or long urls etc they end up in the 1.99 "community" posts section with weekly episodes of "Fishtory!" Podcast.
If there was a study i mentioned that youd like a link to, also just ask and list the info mentioned, and ill find you the bookmark, site or pdf in the comments. I adore Adam and his approach to food also!
@@Fishtory - Thanks! My initial question was mostly about _how_ to look up articles myself. With that I mean, what subject am I looking for, terms that will be more focused on the aquarium hobby and so on.
Conversely, if you wanted to find more info on the neuroscience of, say, the mindfulness that comes from working with and looking at aquariums it might be a struggle for you to find what you are looking for. But it shouldn't be too hard for me since it's a familiar subject to me.
Also, google scholar often has links to free articles, I use unpaywall to find even more, if you email researchers they are often eager to share (since they and their institutions make zero dollar and zero cents off of you buying an article) -- and in general the monetization system behind the articles would make it feel completely moral to use e.g. sci-hub if all three above mentioned fails. You pay taxes to fund research, you pay taxes to have them published, and you pay taxes _again_ for the unis to be able to access the articles of other tax funded research. Elsevier and the other publishers are greedy scrooges.
Sooo interesting...something i like to do is blackwater..🙏..
I like your Buddha statue..
Thanks! Yeah give buddha a go...err blackwater haha ...try em both
I just hope I don't become blissful...
I become boring..I think i"ll always be neurotic..enough to do something weird...lol...Kurt..
Make playlist for Blackwater.
Okay I will!
Interesting- I have a bunch of blackwater tanks with pH ranging from 4.5 to 6.5 depending on the tank.... they all have healthy plants actively growing in them- the aponogeton species I have seem to thrive the best, then I'd say the bacalaya along with Cyperus helferi, most my crypts did die off before I realised they don't enjoy such low pH, soft & low tds conditions. I do have the healthiest anubias I've ever been able to grow in a 6 & 6.5 pH tank, but most the java fern species died off- I think I only have a few small needle leaf plants dotted about. The peacock moss died off, but java & christmas moss is doing O.k from 4.5 to 6.5 pH so far.
My red tiger lotus plants all died & so did one but one of the dwarf aquarium lilies (still in the process of trying to nurse the single survivor back to health before I transplant it out into tub next summer).
I stopped doing regular weekly or bi weekly water changes as it upset the ecosystems too much- all my blackwater aquariums show zero nitrates with tds no higher than 49. I now mostly top off with rain water as required outside of the 2 short series of water changes I do each year- the first during early winter & the second during early spring, these act more as a seasonal cue for the fish I keep to encourage them to stop breeding as if I don't they continue to breed year round which takes too much of a toll on their bodies IMO.
Very good point and another great suggestion on ways to keep and maintain systems/tanks. Thank you
Great video Alex. Did you ever do a follow up video? I am setting up a 25" 65 gallon tall at this time. I have a twinstar s series light and plan to use a corner matten. I plan on using the slow moving plenum and saf-t-sorb over that with 1 inch organic potting and then a natural colered Carob Sea larger sand cap . Wood, leaves, plants. I would like to do a 5" base . Can i put and breed Nanochromas and some of the newer pencil fish . What should be my final PH goal? When you do water changes would you shoot the ph up to high like going from 5.5 to 6?
Honestly I've heard the cenepa red pencilfish are just as easy to spawn as a purple or red arc pencil is. Anything below 6.8 or so is okay for ph. If you want to go really low with the ph, I understand and I'd say aim for 5.5 for now and beware some fish just don't like that level acidity if they're from like moving hard or hillstream waters.
But if you wanna do pencils, some most tetras, nearly all corydoras, most Plecos will do well even in the 5s....however it's easier to keep a tank at 6.5 - 7 because your aerobic nitrifying bacteria all still work and live happily. Below 6.5 or so that dies off...also almost no plants will thrive in the ph ranges of 4 or the 5s.
Also doing the 50% water change to enduce spawning- trick, usually works well for all loricaridae and Nannostomus do well. Just keep that water soft.... the food atheist 50% protein in the 2 weeks prior to the big water change ...ideally live food, and no flow while fattening them, but once they have bellies a bit full looking, reduce the tank temp 4 or 5 degrees f. , 50% low tds water change... add tiny infusoria, paramecium or green water algae if still no spawning occurs. so the parents will See food for the fry... sometimes they don't want to reproduce unless they have a guaranteed food source for fry to eat....even if the parents don't want to eat stuff that small..
In the end , do what you want and what feels right for your hobby. Hope that helps a little?
Cheers
@@Fishtory Great that is really good news. Same with a Nanochromis Splendin? Looking forward to meeting you at Fin Dig .
And how do you prepare your water in advance for the water changes ? You put botanical in the water in advance and test it ? And do you put a filter in the premade blackwater container ?
I have pea puffers na neon tetra in a 20 long and decided to add catoppa leaves and tannins.
I've never really played with that, please let me know how it goes!
@@Fishtory I got the neons about 4 days ago and man they are sensitive. Already lost two out of nowhere. Puffers Def not the issue they just die lol
How will archea bacteria affect my water test readings, what should be expected?
We don't know honestly ...in the aquarium world it isn't very well researched...and there are many types. So it's hard to say...but usually if it doesn't help its neutral in effects. Rarely a problem
Hey brother I have a question. Is the archea bacteria replacing bacteria that convert ammonia, or is it nitrates, or is it nitrates?
So there are fungi, archaea, other bacteria (not nitrobacter/ bactcilis or nitrosomas) but it totally depends on your location, the tank and what's in it...hard to say ...but I wish more research was being done on it
I am wanting to own a snake that needs a blackwater tank. I am so thankful you made this video! I am wanting to have a few tanks set up before getting my elepahnt trunk snake so I am comfortable with its setup. Great source of information and i will be coming back to this video to take notes on in the coming years, unless you have an update on these tanks. Might have to go looking for it if there is 😂
Edit: I found the blackwater playlist 😁 feel like a kid at the candy store 😅
Glad I could help! If i can assist at all, just let me know!
I think we should use water from well established natural sources to start our systems. Like a pond, lake, stream or river that we know has good fish biology and no know diseases. It think it wold be an interesting experiment
Check out father fish and his channel...he does that too. I add lond water usually, but still cycle it since different nitrifying bacteria exist here in cool water rather than tropical water
How does this dude know so goddamn much information 😳😳😳
Lol I spend 4 to 12 hours a day reading/listening to/watching content from respected sources whenever I find myself not knowing the answer 😀
@@Fishtory thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with the rest of the world!
I really enjoy the knowledge you share. I have a question about something you said about dropping your ph and killing off your nitrifying bacteria. I keep really low ph in my tanks simply because my tap water comes out at about 6.2-6.4. Could a drop in my ph kill my bacteria and cause an ammonia spike?
It could in the 7.5-6.6 range but under 6.5 it actually becomes a gas and ammonia leaves or becomes non-toxic..so yes, the bacteria die off, but it's also because you don't need them for the same method of filtration in black water or low ph. So just keep on keeping on :)
@@Fishtory Thank you for answering my question. So my next question is that I have Panda Uaru that’s being delivered tomorrow. They are 3-4 inch wild caught. Do I need to add tannins or just keep rolling with my ph naturally at 6.2-6.4?And I just tested my water before I did my water change to prepare for their arrival.
@@tabarakaquatics8067 So glad I found this video. I have Panda Uaru for a few months now and they were thriving and my Ph was at about 6.4 for years. The system they are in had been running for 2 years with some of my South Americans…Recently I had to medicate them with metro for a minor case of HITH from a bit to much protein in the diet which has been addressed. The HITH is gone and cured but my cycle got killed off and I can’t get it back no matter what I do. I tried moving media over from my other tanks FX6…no dice. FYI my pH is 6.4 out of the tap, and the Panda system right now has a PH of 6, ammonia anywhere from .25-.50 on the API test kit, no nitrates, no nitrites. Question is do I just leave it, or is there some magic to getting a low PH tank cycled say for discus or other low PH fish like my Pandas? Any help is very much appreciated🙏🏻
@@seansquill8773 good question. I know that you really mean to direct this question towards @The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium. Repost this question to him to get a better question because I would’ve done exactly what you have, and/or use Seachem Stability in the filtration system. But then I would be left with the question you probably have, and that is do I have to go about creating nitrogen cycle in a completely different way with a ph that low? Please tag me when you repost this question to him because I’m curious what his answer will be. And if you’re interested you can take a look at my panda uaru on my channel. Good luck
Also if you have 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates, something is converting that. Maybe you don’t really have a problem, maybe smaller but more frequent water changes instead of larger water changes spread further apart. Just an educated guess. Again, good luck and please let me know what you come up with because I’m always seeking answers too.
Good biotopes that need proper care.
100%
Hey fishstory, how do you know when it is safe to make an aquarium filterless?
I have a video called "how to go filterless with an established aquarium" turning a tank into a filterless nature tank.
But essentially I get the nitrates to balance at 0-10 only with water top offs for evaporation, then let the filter clog with debris HOB or sponge. Nature will alter your tank for you, If you just take it slow
@@Fishtory I really love the idea of letting nature take your filter, I currently have a large sponge filter that I want to take out to add more plants. I think I’ll switch over to a hang on the back filter as it will take up significantly less space. My aquarium is currently 5 months old and I’ve never lost a fish in it. It is half covered in floating plants and emmersed philodendrons and pothos and on the other side I have a water lily and an Amazon sword. Should I wait until my aquarium is 6 months old and do a sand cap before I attempt the transition to filterless? Oh also I have a deep substrate system of stone, soil, and then sand that is 4-5 inches deep. Thank you so much!
hold on a second. I ran a very successful planted tank at 5.2ph. Hyrogrphilia sp, Blyxa japonica, anubias sp, Ambulia sp, Pogostemon Echinodorus sp etc. Tannins were low only a slight tea effect
BTW a pond ph kit will have the low range we want for black water
I Appreciate that tip. I caved and got an electronic one, but I'm sure someone will ask that question!
That betta looks a lot like one like I have.
He's a good boy lol so peaceful
My question is can you keep Discus in that type of environment?
Hi Fishtory. Can you do a short on how much tannins is just right (Minimum)? I love tannins, but I just want to make sure that mine are jus right or a little bit much :P Thank you
I should have a video called tannins and another called are almond leaves as good as they claim? " i think those will give you more info than you may want to know lol haha
@@Fishtory I've seen them all
I'm confused at 25:00 about how you say that we thought for a long time how tannins, earth soil, and plants breaking down were a source for low pH... is it not? Did the places in Borneo and Amazon lack organic matter and still have low super pH? I'm sorry I'm lost at this part.
Im sorry, i mispoke and meant to say that this was the cause of fish deaths from ammonia...i dont know how i mispoke so oddly lol. But the point was that scientists thought super tannic water was soooo acidic no bacteria could clean the ammonia, and thus no fish would be living in ph of under around 5.5 or 6.
I also neglected to explain that... then they discovered ammonia evaporates out of the water more and more as the ph lowers.
Ammonia also becomes ammonium, at low ph...an Ion of ammonia which is no where near as toxic to living creatures. This happens down to 6.4 ph or less. So scientists also thought we wouldnt see super low ph fish... since no ammonia / nitrogen bacteria would be alive... but since ammonia isnt an issue at super low ph, and most fish in extreme low ph waters can also breath atmospheric oxygen...bettas, corys, many catfish, gouramis, etc. Can avoid burning their gills with ammonia... and even without plants oxygenating the water, or if the water is sooo acidic the fish should avoid filtering it...they have ways to breathe at the surface and survive.
Thats such a strange way, i skipped that train of thought...its so odd no one has mentioned it either lol. Thank you...apologies and i hope you have a great weekend
Also, my tank is still at a 8.0 after I put botanicals in it. It's a 75 gallon, two sponge filters, has live plants, and has around 3 magnolia leaves and 3 cattapa leaves in it. Should I add more botanicals, or should I test my tap water to see what it is (tested ph right before a water change though so tannins had time to set in). Also, would you recommend red sailfin corys for a blackwater tank? I'm trying to find if they're ok in BW but I can't find anything. Should I just experiment with it? Sorry if I sound stupid I'm still a beginner 💀
Yeah you can add more but if your water is super super hard... only an RO/DI system will fix it
@@Fishtory ohhhh thanks sm!!!
Hi!
I wonder if i used filter, the tannin will get stuck at filter and then the water would become clear?
How to avoid it.
Or i don't need to ise filter?
Slowly, the larger molecules and chains of polymers ( that form when tannins bond to other molecules) will get stuck in a charcoal or very fine mesh filter... if it causes your tannins to get filtered... watch your ph but you can just add more...or get rid of any fine filtration pads, or charcoal pads
Let my tank get established for my neocaridinas and then threw in driftwood that had been water logged not boiled and I love the darker water
Nice! Are they okay with the acidity on their exoskeleton, as the weeks go by? Or do they do fjne?
@@Fishtory they seem perfectly healthy no failed molts and even have seen molts from the babies (they have been breeding like crazy.)
I watched a lot of this video, skipping from spot to spot but never did learn what tannins are good for. Just like most of these tannin videos, they give way more information than i came for. Sorry, I don't have 29 minutes of my life to watch your video. I wish someone on CZcams would just get to the point on WTF tannins are good for.
Watch my jackfruit leave video for a super detailed rundown of what and why tannins and alkaloids in all fruit leaves are good for
@@Fishtory can you send me the link? I actually have a jackfruit tree that I started from a seed.
I’ve been soaking wood in my outdoor pond for a while for a backwater tank, I was going to boil it to sterilise and clean but now I’m thinking it might be better just to rinse it off? In hopes to Keep bacteria from the pond
I'd say it's worth it as long as you know how to handle any sort of worms or little parasites with levanisol or fritz expel-p....juuust in case
@@Fishtory oh yeah that’s a good point, I might unfortunately end up sterilising as the wood is pretty large so would need lots of the anti parasitic medicines
@@Fishtory maybe will buy a small amount and add some pond wanted/ silt. I’m actually re doing the tank due to a blue green cyano breakout. Planing on a very deep sand bed this time and just a better scape overall as I found some old big wood to scape with
8:44 bruv thats not what the Cambrian explosion was
(good vid overall tho love the deepdive informative vids)
Well if you look at the a graph of oxygen on the planet. It's first big spike is during the Cambrian. But definitely it's not the peak of oxygen or diversity... just the first big era that saw oxygen production growing and growing half a billion years ago
@@Fishtory Yes oxygen levels did start to grow by the Cambrian, but they were not even at the level they are today, and also insects or any terrestrial animals like centipedes did not occur during the Cambrian/Cambrian explosion, though the larger group of arthropods did.
The massive spike in oxygen levels was moreso during the Carboniferous, that is when we saw the massive bugs like the giant myriapod(arthroplura presumably) that you mention.
hmmm...sounds familiar. :)
Haha hello!
Huh, my hornwort & other plants always melt, but I have hard 7.2ph water.
Hmm hornwart is known to melt if the TDS is very high... probably the calcium specifically. If your tds is like over 300 that could be doing it , but it's a puzzle... tds kh gh and ph all sort of work together but also independent for some picky organisms.
The rasboras wont servive the change below 6 ph change?
They will, if it's sudden from 8.0 or 7.5 they can't take the shift instantly. Slowly they'll go to 3.5 or 4 in some cases
Hi there, so I've a tank with high GH 300 mg/l, KH 180 mg/l, and a pH of around 8. I have Rummys, Cory's, CP Danios, two baby super red plecos, shrimp and snails. I've been adding beech leaves from outside to try and effect the water chemistry. Not much has happened with around three handfuls over two weeks. I've started adding alder cones that I collected. Maybe 10 at a time over the last couple days. Still not seeing any difference in water chemistry. Obviously I don't want a sudden drop off, 😅, so taking it slowly. This is a deep substrate 'father fish' style tank. What type of wood can I get to start slowly lowering hardness? Like cholla, mopani, or red moore? I am seriously considering adding some German blue Rams to the tank so I'd like to get these parameters lower. Thanks for any help you can offer 👍
Yeah no worries. Good thinking on going slow. So I'd do a large water change actually. It seems that something is buffering your water well... likely calcium and or carbon in some form. I'm guessing your TDS is like 200+ . Depending on the size of your tank, adding a few gallons of purified/Distilled water will "cut" the water, and drop its buffering capacity. It will be more prone to ph swings in theory...but hey, we want a slow swing haha.
Mopani Driftwood is probably your best bet for tannins in the hobby's common woods... Cholla is number 2 probably...but honestly those alder cones pack a punch usually and make a lot of humic acid as they break down.
My guess is your tap water is just really buffered and hard....so getting a jump on it by adding some water with no hardness is the best bet... it's usually a dollar a gallon or less for off-Brand Distilled water/purified water....don't buy just "drinking water" or "spring water" those often have minerals or salts added for flavor.
Best of luck. It's hard to fight your water, the best thing is finding local raised fish that like hard water already also... but I totally understand wanting to control the ph and make a biotope or breeding tank. Take care
@@Fishtory my water is definitely hard out of the tap. I live in a high limestone area in Ireland. I'm planning to test my sand now aswell to see if that's effecting the water. I guess I won't add too many more alder cones until they start breaking down. It's my first tank and it's a 20 gallon tank. I've never tested for TDS. I was hoping to be able to lower these parameters without going down the distilled water or ro water route, but if that's the only way I guess I'll have to try. I have been looking for locally bred rams but to no avail yet. Thanks for the info!
@@bernieone1 sorry there isn't a magic bullet really. Some stores sell tannic acid or humic acid in bottles and that'll do it, but I think it's inherently unstable and if you do too much acid, it melts the substrate and buffers more..so over time you add more and more acid lol...so after a while you need a bottle instead of 1/10th a bottle. But who knows...you Europeans are ahead of America in the Hobby, maybe there IS a magic bullet cure now? I just don't know it.
@@Fishtory Your all good. I'm finding the process pretty fun and interesting. I was expecting a bit more of a change from what I've done already but it's grand. A learning curve. I'm going to stay away from the bottles chemicals aswell. More of as natural as possible approach. Still keeping an eye out for locally bred fish too. In the hopes they'd be more accustomed to our water.
I just started my tank with spring water. The bacteria bloom is over, but not yet cycled (fishless). My ammonia is off the charts, the kh is high with a pretty neutral ph. I have a mopani stump in, and the water is black. Black black. Im thinking a 20% water change with distilled water. However I don't want to water change until the tank is cycled. Any advice, just wait?
You can do water changes as much as you like...especially if the ammonia is high... itll help the bacteria catch up to the ammonia load. It can take a few weeks to fully cycle ...up tl 6 in extreme cases depending on water conditions
@Fishtory it turned out one of my riparium plant's rizome was completely rotted out. Possibly from the fungus growing on the mopani wood I had tied it to. That's what was probably causing my ammonia spike. That's why I wanted to do a fishless cycle incase I have plant issues. So yeah I'll probably have to do a dramatic water change.
I’m so nervous. I’ve been gearing up to start my little black water beta tank. I’m scared. Sad. I doubt I can have my Madagascar lace in there. 😅 better to know now than to kill it 😂🎉🎉🎉
Its a plant that can handle 6.2 or so and up...fairly acidity tolerant, actually!
I don't necessarily agree with the way you present the best forms anaerobic and anoxic cycles. That's another discussion for another day. But just to be clear... are you suggesting that the aerobic nitrogen cycle stops working in a black water low pH environment?
Yes. Lover than 6.5 to 6.0 the 2 major nitrogen metabolizing bacteria begin to die of acidity burns... now there are other bacteria and then also Archaea bacteria that still convert ammonia to nitrates and nitrogen...but fat less so
You live in Seattle? Bro I live in WA too
Right on! Pnw forever! Hah
Can you transfer into blackwater with an existing tank with under-gravel filtration?
Probably not unfortunately. You really need a still sedimentary bed of silt and tannins/mulm ...but you could just add "liquid black water" from seachem or other places...and lower the ph and make the water the darker colors
@@Fishtory Ah, I had afeeling that would be the case, thanks!
Dude, why are you not in the Father Fish research team? 🤯
Iam but casually... i dont like drama or having deadlines when im so busy with the channel, but ill toss in my 2 cents here and there
Had to watch the vid at 1.75x... Nice info tho👍
Probably a safe call for all my videos lol
@@Fishtory hehehe I am waiting for the 2nd part too. keep it up 👍
I have a bog in my area thats so low ph fish cant even live in which means its lower than 3 and it has plants living inside it tons of bugs and amphibious life and i am using dirt from there to help help boost ph
Oh whoa! Where is that located? (In the world). That's about as low as it gets in licorice gourami waters
@@Fishtory its around southern quebec new york area yeah no where tropical which is suprising since majority of those low ph environments are from south east asia
Great video Alex.
I'm wondering if I'm setting up a black water tank, is there any benefit at all to having a deep substrate if there will be little to no plants growing in it?
Also, would it be just as effective to use riparian and floating plants for removing metabolic waste in the absence of nitrifying bacteria?
What's the point of a filter, other than water flow, if there's no nitrifying bacteria?
So its a complex topic..
But annoxic filtration will still occur in deep substrate or oxygen poor environments.... if the substrate is buffered to near 6.5 or higher. So i like combining the two systems... and running an airstone or hob/sponge or something to move that water and the o2
If your ya yard is organic and trees not stayed, you can use your own leaves.
Yup! I use lots of my magnolia leaves
Sorry if I missed the point when you said it, but cabomba would be pretty bad for a blackwater right? Or should I just experiment with it?
Itll probably die in black water, yes. Sadly
@@Fishtory OH NO LMAO
What's the channel he talks about on 16:33?
czcams.com/video/znc7Jn1Qrjk/video.html
Dr. Novack
Being in Southern Florida, it's not uncommon to see leaf-filled, tannin-coloured bodies of water that are not acidic. I'm currently soaking a bunch of leaves in a stock tank outside to put in an aquarium at a future date. My intention is to not boil the leaves in order to preserve microfauna and not disrupt the natural breakdown process . Do you think this method of lengthy pre-soaking will hinder dramatic PH swings?
Yeah it definitely reduces the likelyhood of that. There is a quick source of acids...tannic acid and humic acid, that can be soaked out mostly. and then there is long term decomposition related acids... boric, humic, nitric and carbonic acid that will occur when any living thing dies but it is a slow release
@@Fishtory Thanks for the info! 🙂
Is this safe for shrimps?
It totally depends on the species... but generally if the ph is 6.5 to 7 theyll do okay
sup gizzle
Fuhshizzle
How low does the tannins lower ur PH too ?
The leaves break down into carbonic and nitric acid
@@Fishtory meant like how low can I lower it? Like does it stop at a certain number or just keeps lowering it
Hello
Heyo!
I can't find the second video
I still need to finish that project lol sorry
@The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium you're good. Love the videos man I listen to them at work lol. I'd like to setup a 300-gallon ecosystem tank with no water changes and no filter just circulation(when I have a few thousand dollars to blow lol) micro fish and some dwarf cichlids maybe
Empty your mind and be like water when u put water in a cup it becomes the cup ...be like water
I think, Father Fish has Blackwater but not acidic!
Correct!
This vid is a bit excessive and dramatic.
Steps to switching over your aquarium to black water.
-Want your fish to be okay, just check to make sure they are the kind that can thrive in black water.
- Don’t want your plants to melt, make sure they can still thrive in low light.
- Don’t want your tank to crash; add botanicals slowly over the course of a week or two.
- Want more tannins in the water, seep a few 100% rooibos tea bags in a few letters of water, add to the tank when cool.
- Want less tannins, do a water change
I mean no hate by this comment ^
While delving in to the biochemistry and all angles of the science behind it all is vary interesting, it can be vary overwhelming.
Remember to do your research, test your water, observe how things react and tweak accordingly.
But most importantly! Have fun with your hobby!
Fair enough... but i do see people with nano tanks, create battery acid and nuke their tetras in 3.0 water within mere days...frequently ive been getting emails about it and folks seem to not understand that a leaf can be so impactful
@@Fishtory that’s true 100%
I like the video it is vary interesting. Keep up the good work 🙌🏼
6 foot long centipedes!? 🤮🙈
Nightmare fuel
WAP
The song,?
this is a poison to kill your fishes😂😂😂blackwater rivers have a running water, aquariums circulate the same water
Many environments where fish live are not flowing... many fish live in dry season puddles...those are the specues to keep...not the majority of fish in the hobby.