The Power Of Recursion: An UNSOLVABLE Integral

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  • čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
  • Hope everyone enjoyed! I thought this integral was particularly unique and love how theres so many approaches - please comment all of yours down below!! Please comment with any questions or suggestions for new topics, and as always, subscribe to stay updated. ~ Thanks for watching!Still looking for your answer to my last two video challenges ‪@blackpenredpen‬ ... Thanks again for all the recent support and please keep sharing and interacting!!#maths #mathematics #integrals #MIT #Cambridge #JEE #recursion #problemsolving #whoknew #fascinating #functions #euler #funproblems #proofs #functions #physics #sums #series #limits #whiteboard #math505 #blackpenredpen #integral #trig #trigonometry

Komentáře • 60

  • @maths_505
    @maths_505 Před 4 dny +6

    WOOOOOOOOOOO 1K!!!!

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 4 dny +1

      I KNOW!!! Thanks so much for everything - couldn't have got anywhere near without the help or the inspiration to start a channel in the first place.

  • @redpepper74
    @redpepper74 Před 8 dny +14

    Wow, it’s neat how many different kinds of mathematical tools we used to solve this one

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +1

      That's why I thought it was such a good one to share!

  • @futuure
    @futuure Před 8 dny +14

    I’d just like to answer to the title of the video: in France, we are being taught the general method for integrals of 1/(ax^2+bx+c)^n where a, b, c are the coefficients of an irreducible polynomial considered in the real space. If the polynomial is of an order above 2, or it’s reducible, you can use partial fraction decomposition. Actually that last method is how you would start solving any rational fraction integration problem!

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +2

      Thanks! That's really interesting to hear and a great problem to solve.

    • @suzum0978
      @suzum0978 Před 6 dny +2

      prepa?

  • @theupson
    @theupson Před 2 dny +1

    this very specific class of problem was standard in all textbooks at least through the 90s- i definitely did this problem in high school. i feel like it may have been dropped from some curricula as not being worth the time but i wouldn't call this an arcane topic.

  • @aleksandervadla9881
    @aleksandervadla9881 Před 4 dny +3

    Using residue theorem is also nice for this one

  • @maths_505
    @maths_505 Před 5 dny +4

    Nice one, I remember solving the trig case as a question on my cal2 finals. A wonderful exercise indeed!

  • @NonTwinBrothers
    @NonTwinBrothers Před 8 dny +4

    Damn son, where'd you find this?

  • @spiderwings1421
    @spiderwings1421 Před 8 dny +12

    inf*0 is not necessarily zero. its indeterminate without further work

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +5

      Yeah I was thinking of leaving it as a challenge at the end... you can gauge roughly it ends up at 0 because the power of 2n for cosine scales more rapidly than tan but of course there is a longer rigorous proof. I didn't want to include it in the video because it was already a bit long but feel free to share it here!

    • @franolich3
      @franolich3 Před 8 dny +3

      One can avoid the issue of the indeterminate form by using a hyperbolic substitution instead:
      x = sinh(u)
      dx = cosh(u).du
      x=0 => u=0
      x-->inf => u-->inf
      Letting sinh(u,n) = (sinh(u))^n etc:
      J[n] = Integral[0 to inf: 1 / (1+x^2)^n]
      = Integral[0 to inf: cosh(u) / (1+sinh(u,2))^n]
      = Integral[0 to inf: cosh(u) / cosh(u,2n)]
      = Integral[0 to inf: 1 / cosh(u,2n-1)]
      J[n] = Integral[0 to inf: cosh(u,2) / cosh(u,2n+1)]
      = Integral[0 to inf: (1+sinh(u,2)) / cosh(u,2n+1)]
      = Integral[0 to inf: 1 / cosh(u,2n+1)] + Integral[0 to inf: sinh(u,2) / cosh(u,2n+1)]
      = J[n+1] + Integral[0 to inf: sinh(u) . sinh(u) / cosh(u,2n+1)]
      = J[n+1] + (-1/2n).[0 to inf: sinh(u) / cosh(u,2n)] - (-1/2n).Integral[0 to inf: cosh(u) / cosh(u,2n)]
      = J[n+1] - (1/2n).[0 to inf: tanh(u) / cosh(u,2n-1)] + (1/2n).Integral[0 to inf: 1 / cosh(u,2n-1)]
      = J[n+1] - (1/2n).[(1/inf) - (0/1)] + (1/2n).J[n]
      = J[n+1] + (1/2n).J[n]
      => J[n+1] = J[n].(2n-1)/2n

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +2

      @@franolich3 Nicely done!!

    • @RamblingMaths
      @RamblingMaths Před 8 dny +3

      You can rewrite tan x = sinx/cos x. If n > 0 then the cos x in the denominator is cancelled by a cos x in the numerator and you end up with a positive power of cos x multiplied by sin x. Then cos x->0 as x->pi/2, and sin x->0 as x->0, and there are no infinities.

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +1

      @@RamblingMaths Yes this is what I was thinking too... Thanks for sharing, great solution!

  • @niom9446
    @niom9446 Před 6 dny +3

    wow this is so fancy and elegant

  • @bachvaroff
    @bachvaroff Před 6 dny +2

    This one is well known in BG as well, it's the notorious "14000th integral" ('coz ~14k freshmen got F on their Calculus 1 exam in a single day, one of the problems being the general form of this one, $I_n = \int \frac{Px + Q}{(ax^2 + bx + c)^n} dx$) 😃.

  • @mohamedanirelkarta7962
    @mohamedanirelkarta7962 Před 8 dny +4

    Great video ! Would love to see more series in the channel

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +1

      Absolutely - series are some of my favourites too, thanks so much the comment!

  • @Ben-wv7ht
    @Ben-wv7ht Před 2 dny +1

    Beta function enters the room

  • @oraz.
    @oraz. Před 4 dny +1

    I had never heard of recursive integrals. That's amazing.

  • @television-channel
    @television-channel Před 5 dny +1

    very nice

  • @noicemaster5173
    @noicemaster5173 Před 5 dny +2

    Beta(n+1/2,1/2) sneaking up

  • @eevee8856
    @eevee8856 Před 4 dny

    Bold of you to assume anyone learns integrals from school (unless they want to mess up their thinking ability and hamper their originality)

  • @clementp7648
    @clementp7648 Před 8 dny +1

    Let n be a positive integer. The integral converges by majoration with the case when n = 1.
    For all x in the set of real numbers:
    0 ≤ 1 / (1 + x²)^(n + 1) ≤ 1 / (1 + x²)^n
    We can integrate this relation because we have shown that these integrals converge. Thus, the sequence (Iₙ) is positive and decreasing, which means it is convergent.
    Next, we can integrate by parts on the interval [0, A] where A > 0, to establish the recurrence relation between Iₙ and Iₙ₊₁, leading to the same result!
    Using trigonometry, as demonstrated in the video, is also a nice approach
    Great video on what would be a classic prep class exercise in France! :)

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +1

      Nice! Love that method, great approach.

  • @Akhulud
    @Akhulud Před 8 dny +1

    using beta function, the integral is trivial after subing x=tan(theta)

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 7 dny

      Yeah I mentioned at the start - beta function is definitely a shortcut after one substitution, but I wanted to offer a more accessible second method. Great spot though! That's part of what makes the beta function so useful.

  • @dogackoca8426
    @dogackoca8426 Před 8 dny +3

    Can you work on complex numbers next time, I really like to see a problem with that.

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny +1

      Definitely - do you mean a complex integral (like contour integration) or just anything complex in general?

    • @dogackoca8426
      @dogackoca8426 Před 8 dny +2

      ​@@OscgrMaths love to see complex integral

  • @user-eb6mn3dw1v
    @user-eb6mn3dw1v Před 6 dny +1

    I didn't know that this simple technique, that I have found by experimenting(things they don't teach at school, but also subtract from students) with unfamiliar integral by myself for 3 mins btw, is SO HARD that it deserves a whole video of explanation :)))). Lol, we learn something everyday don't we?

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 6 dny

      Glad you enjoy this kind of maths! Maybe check out some of the other videos on my channel like the one from the BMO if you want a different kind of question.

    • @user-eb6mn3dw1v
      @user-eb6mn3dw1v Před 6 dny

      I have a textbook, you know? Absolutely no need for videos, bruh

    • @t1hunna429
      @t1hunna429 Před 4 dny

      bro stfu like how can you be this much of a virgin. lol ig we learn something new every day

  • @user-jm6rm2xn3z
    @user-jm6rm2xn3z Před 8 dny +1

    can you make more logarithmic integrals

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny

      Yeah definitely, thanks for the suggestion!

  • @adityavikramsinha408
    @adityavikramsinha408 Před 7 dny +1

    Another “simplification” is making the (2n)!/(n!)(n!) => 2nCn, neat

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 7 dny +1

      Wow that's a great point, makes the answer even more satisfying!

  • @coreymonsta7505
    @coreymonsta7505 Před 6 dny +1

    You should teach the chain rule differently lol

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 6 dny

      Sorry! I was hoping everyone watching would know it already. Would you like me to do a separate video teaching it?

    • @coreymonsta7505
      @coreymonsta7505 Před 6 dny

      The derivative of the outside function evaluated at the inside function times the derivative of the inside function

    • @coreymonsta7505
      @coreymonsta7505 Před 6 dny +1

      @@OscgrMaths That’s one of the better things to explain, if you do try to explain it, I wouldn’t do it the way you did

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 6 dny

      @@coreymonsta7505 Yeah I think given the full time I'd use the fact that substitution u for inner function allows you to find dy/du and du/dx, then show the cancellation comes after that giving dy/dx. But sometimes with these longer videos I try and rush over the basic stuff - I'll keep it in mind next time!

    • @coreymonsta7505
      @coreymonsta7505 Před 6 dny

      @@OscgrMaths I mean just explain how the rule works during the video in a different way

  • @NonameBozo88
    @NonameBozo88 Před 8 dny +1

    Don't use hand to wipe the board, oil on the skin ruins the pens and the board

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 8 dny

      Thanks for the tip!! I'll make sure to always use my rubber.

  • @jamiewalker329
    @jamiewalker329 Před 7 dny +3

    The integral is just pi*i*residue at z=i. (complete a contour in the UHP), and using the evenness of the function.
    The residue is pretty straight forward as 1/(1+z^2)^n = 1/(z+i)^n(z-i)^n. So we have a pole of order n. So we just need to do 1/(n-1)! * the n-1'th derivative of (z+i)^-n evaluated at z = i. This is 1/(n-1)! * (-1)^(n-1) n(n+1)(n+2)...(2n-2) (2i)^(2n-1). Multiplying by pi*i and a bit of cleaning up gives the answer.

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 7 dny +1

      Yes!! I was hoping somebody would take a contour approach... This is a beautiful solution, very nicely done.

  • @comdo777
    @comdo777 Před 8 dny

    asnwer=1 oo sin cos tan

  • @worldnotworld
    @worldnotworld Před 5 dny +1

    Fantastic. [[ Technical comment: is it possible to direct the microphone more directly towrad your voice? You're picking up an awful lot of marker-squeak, which, though not as bad as fingernails on a chalkboard, is somewhat annoying...

    • @OscgrMaths
      @OscgrMaths  Před 5 dny

      Yes, I'm thinking of getting a lapel mic which I'm hoping will pick up more voice and less board. Thanks for the comment!