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10 Reasons Why I HATE Self-Drilling Drywall Fixings
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- I see a lot of folk using these spiral, self-drilling plasterboard / drywall fixings - also sometimes known as helter-skelter fittings. Personally I hate them and in this video I'm explaining why. I'm testing some Fischer PDN and PDM fittings in 12.5mm plasterboard. If you still want to use them after watching this video then fill your boots. I very much doubt folk who feel the need to post abusive comments would bother to read the description of the video, but on the off-chance... as explained in other videos, the reason I'm doing an axial load test is for comparative purposes as this represents worst case scenario for the fittings. Fischer make awesome fixings - it's just this general design of fixing is rubbish. There are now much better alternatives such as the Fischer DuoPower and the Fischer DuoTec... and even the Fischer GPF (General Purpose Fixing) seem to perform better in my own limited tests.
Follow-up vid testing shear loads (spiral fittings of doom also performed terribly in this test too):
• Shear Loads vs Axial L...
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Want to see the full test video for the little Fischer LDF plastic plugs? Watch this vid:
• How strong are Fischer...
Datasheet for these fittings, confirming recommended use (tensile, shear & oblique loads):
www.fischer.in.th/PortalData/3...
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If you could quickly read this before commenting that would be lovely. Also see my Teespring link if you're about to say "You should have tested shear load". A couple of folk have mentioned these should have been tested with a shear load (as opposed to axial). I have explained on other vids why all tests are axial for comparative purposes, since it represents worst case for the fittings. Datasheets confirm these fittings are for shear, axial or oblique loads. Having said that, I've made a follow-up vid where they also perform terribly for shear loads too: czcams.com/video/yNe-QFQsZc4/video.html
Make your own minds up - just giving you the numbers from my own tests. Abusive comments will just be removed so don't waste your time. 👍👊😀
i'm a big fan of those anchor and i don't think you did anything wrong with those test
I do not like the metal ones but the plastic as long as they are used within their weight limits work great for me. The fins on the plastic are thin and cut in nicely to the drywall. I use in 1/2" or thicker only. You do have to be careful of not over tightening for sure. I also accept that once it's in it stays in. After that I will remove and patch.
huhhman if you don’t like it you take the time and effort to do a video with the correct testing. I have learned the hard way that these fixing are terrible and I think his test are generous to them
Fair enough mate. I don t use them anyway
Those fittings were used in my house to fit a pretty heavy bathroom sink and a radiator, I share your hate for them! Very difficult to DIY fix with the mess they leave behind... Dread to think where else they are used in my house.
Really enjoy the content! Thank you.
I've used these successfully for years. The trick is to pilot the core diameter and let just the threads cut in to the drywall. Clean with no ragged edges.
I've also used the metal ones successfully for years.
I pilot drill the plug at 4.5mm and then pre-thread the screw.
Never had one pull out or spin out.
Yep, I ALWAYS predrill so the first tip can go in and then when you thread just like you mentioned the threads cut into the dry wall... NEVER had an issue. I do not like the metal versions of these, but I like the nylon ones that actually "split" open slightly... they are even better. Been using them for years with ZERO issues!
I agree and I have had no trouble what so ever with these and the metal ones are the best cause you can use any type of sheet metal or metal screw and even an old fashioned flat head screw if you fit properly. This test he made is silly because when EVER would you pull straight out of them like a fence or something. The secret is to know what type of fastener to use in every situation.
@@NewShockerGuy I agree , drilling a pilot hole first is essential and I also prefer the nylon ones and have had no problems with them
@@webmozaic what do you mean pre thread the screw?
This is brilliant! Found this after I had done everything you advised not to do and was admiring my ripped plasterboard holes!! Thanks.
I used these these for fixing PVC conduit accessories to ceilings ,also hookplates for light fittings ,still in place after 12 years,but any fixing is only good as the material it's fixed to .
Thanks so much for this, it was very timely. Only recently I was thinking of buying a pack or two of these, granted each fitting wouldn't have had to take much load but I'd prefer not to take the chance now. So you've definitely saved me some dosh and possibly saved some tears down the line so I'm very grateful!
Been using those spiral ones for years...
Great points Andy... won't be using them again. Thanks Andy as always super helpful. Love it.
It's an indication of just how piss poor British television programmes are, that I'm reduced to watching a 17 minute video on a type of rawl plug. Oh well, back to Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares.
Funny, but I prefer the rawl plug videos.
I watched kitchen nightmares before I ended up here 🤣🤣🤣
I must admit I've used the metal ones (a different brand which seems much better quality and larger than the fisher ones) and I've had really good results. Granted I only use them for light duty jobs. I think they have their place. I am however really impressed with the corefix fittings, I used a load of them on dot and dab for fitting kitchen wall units after watching your review and they are solid. Thanks again for another informative test.
I use these daily. They’re really good at holding up light pendants that weigh a few hundred grams when you cant get a fixing. I pre drill them first. With the pozi 2 bit on the end of my drill lol.
Great video once again Andy. I have used these fittings to fit a light fitting. Didn't realise their weakness until seeing this video.
I do use these more often than any other product. Used for the right application, I think they are great. I don't use a drill to predrill as it isn't necessary. I install them by using a thin blade flat blade screwdriver then run screw the fitting in with a #2 philips. Don't use a power drill. Never have had a failure.
If you adjust the power drill clutch to a low setting, it is okay. I've hung ductwork off the ceiling (drywall) using these. Some of my best work, and it's still hanging there.
You beat me to it lol
100% with you on this, and it's great to have your video to back me up when I tell friends that I won't ever use them in my house or theirs. I was just shopping for plugs today and bought some of the DuoPower amongst others - topping-up and expanding my stock. And just for info, all my local Robert Dyas had for plasterboard were the self-drilling, so I had to go out of the town centre to get what I needed.
Thanks SO MUCH for this warning! I nearly used some of these to fix a set of coat hooks to a stud wall (I found them in my garage over 30 years ago, left by the previous owner, and now I know why he left them!!). I have now purchased some snap toggles, which I feel 100% more confident about!
Hi Andy,
totally agree with your findings regarding plasterboard
the one place where I can say that these actually do work quite well is into suspended ceiling tiles,
That stuff is very soft and normal plugs just pull straight out if it whereas the large thread on these gets a pretty good hold
Of course you shouldn't be hanging anything too heavy from a suspended ceiling, but it's fine for putting up suspended signs, lightweight wireless access points,. Smoke/co2 alarms etc.
some people will fix stuff to these tiles by screwing straight through it into a piece of fibreboard or thin ply behind to provide support, But that just adds more weight.
Metal ones are a complete waste of money and as you say have a potential of damaging anything behind what you are screwing into.
A towel rail just came off my bathroom wall. Guess what was holding it on? Yes, a metal self-drilling fixing. And I have a sizeable plasterboard repair to do, now.
These work fine if you use them correctly. Great for hanging pictures etc... If you have a heavier load there are other options.
Ditto~!!!!
these work fine for very heavy rads full of water
Did you not watch the video?
What would you recommend for curtain pole which holds heavy curtain?
Rated for 7 kilos fail at 14 kilos not the fault of the product
But there are other products that do a better job and cost less. Therefore bad product.
@@ironpirate8 not bad product, but your using it for something more than its capable of. it is used for hanging frame, and that's it.
Depends very much on the purpose they are being used for.
They are extremely fast and easy to use for many practical purposes. They are in my kit and I will use them periodically.
Obviously finding studs is optimal but there are some terrific alternative fixings available too.
Yes and anyone would for all light applications~!!
I've been using these for over 20 years and they are far superior than anything else I've come across. I built closet systems for new construction using these anchors to support particle board uprights with drawers and shelving and only had one fail, ever.
Used as intended the load these will take is outstanding. Bollocks to you I say.
Better than expanding metal anchors? Just check the specs, but if you're happy with them that's fine. Take care.
Great vid Andy. I've been saying how much I hate these for years. Bottom line, you need a plug that opens up BEHIND the plasterboard. These are hopeless for any load that is pulling away from the wall. I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, because like you I've been at too many customer locations where they've failed, and the comments on my fixings videos on my Channel bear testament to this.
Cheers Charlie - voice of reason! By a country mile this is the most common fixing I see failed. 👍😀
I believe you found stronger retention on the plastic is due to the ability to flex, actually providing more surface area. I always used these in a shear application where the larger body size provides for the stress to be distributed over a wider area. I would not use them in an overhead support application.
Yea I thought flex too.....👍👌👍
Started using these over a year ago but I will admit the only time I use them is when behind the plaster board is a tiny gap before it hits concrete/metal other then that I would use metal fixings which have a much higher load capacity. but so far I haven't had any issue with the ones I have used
The ones we have in Canada are slightly different. The screw splits the fitting in the hole, locking it in place so you can back the screw out without disturbing the fitting. Also, I do drive them in with my electric drill with clutch turned allllllll the way down, and the speed in low range. They don't get away from me and I usually finish them by hand anyway.
To be honest I have a constellation of about 8 of these orbiting two screws into a stud holding up my TV. I'm pretty gentle when I pull the mount in or out, but so far so good.
Great video, I'm keen to try some of the other plugs we get here to see how I get on with them.
I use toggle bolts of different sizes a lot. I would be interested in seeing test results of those. I have used these that you tested a few times only and that was to hang calendars. Thanks for bringing their limitations to my attention.
I have used these for years with very few problems. When I have had issues it's because either I've over tightened them, or the drywall / plasterboard has been a bit crap. Most of the limitations you mention, I ve always taken as limitations of the plasterboard....that said, I am always open to new ideas/improvements...
I’ve used these for donkeys years, mainly for an additional fixing on a lighting pendant(as well as the joist). But I have to agree with you Andy, they are a pain when you try and take out the screw and all the damage to the pb!!
I do like the pan head screws though.
Gonna try the grey plastic ones instead.
Thanks for the video. 👍
Donkey?
I hate fixing into plasterboard full stop. If you can’t find a stud it’s a pain whatever. I’d use these two fixings differently. My understanding is the plastic plugs are designed to be used in tension (stop pulling out), the self drilling fixings are meant to be used in shear (force at 90 degrees to fixing).
I like the tip about the masonry drill. At least when they fall out you’ve already got a hole drilled to put a betterfly fixing in 🤣🤣
I've never read anything that says one is for axial and one is for shear. Either way, the normal plastic plugs performed well in a shear test too. 😀👍
But if you look at the fitting-instruction at either the original German, or the Danish package, it' s shown as vertical solutions. Sorry, I don´t have the UK package accessible. @@GosforthHandyman
Thank you! I had a bad experience with my first one and you have convinced me not to try again after patching the drywall.
I wonder if the nylon expand slightly when the screw is inserted as opposed to the metal which maintains its rigid shape, and if that's why the nylon performed better.
interesting test, I actually like the metal self drilling plasterboard fixings, nice and easy to fix and fast. Surprised that the metal plugs performed worse. I've also used the LDF plugs and they are a hassle to remove if you need to (and can mess up the plasterboard) - the metal ones just unscrew. Really it's just all about the appropriate fixing for the task - don't hang a TV with these!
LDF - just drill them out and you can re-use the hole. Yes, keep TVs away from both. 👍😀
I hear you but, I fit white boards and bathroom cabinets and the like. Metal ones are better as the plastic ones get chewed up by skimmed walls sometimes.
They are so fast to fit without changing screwdriver bits and drill bits. Less dust than drilling. My screwdriver bit fits both the screw and fitting.
I reckon I could hang off a bathroom cabinet when I have hung it with 4 screws. Anyway, all plasterboard fittings work best with shear loads.
I used 4 metal ones to hang a big bathroom cabinet which has a lot of stuff in it. So far been up 10 years and touchwood so far so good.. I have seen other CZcams videos of these and they cam out top. Go figure!
I use these anchors a lot, along with many others, I think they're great when used in the right application. A couple of key points that I think you may have overlooked:
- First some of the better brands such as SnapSkru and EZ Anchor (both in the US) have a split in the back, that pops apart when you screw into it, so they expand behind the wall giving much better strength than the cheaper style you show in this video.
- Both of these brands also have a positive stop which in my experience, prefents over-driving them into the wall quite effectively
- I always pre-drill them with a drill bit about the same diameter as the unthreaded anchor. This makes installing them clean and easy.
So why do I use them instead of other anchors? The larger diameter, plus larger / wider flange, results in I think greater shear strength than much thinner plugs. Especially when using them in applications such as keyhole mounts where the screw has to protrude from the wall a bit, creating a cantilever effect, and there would otherwise be nothing to brace against the surface of the wall (except the much smaller and thinner flange that most plugs have). The wider flange acts like a washer, or like screwing a bracket or flat hook flush to the wall.
Also these can be easily removed from the wall. Yes it leaves a big hole, but it's a clean hole. Plugs are often very difficult to remove, you have to put a screw in part way and yank on it, and sometimes that still doesn't work, or removes a chunk of the wall with it. Plastic Togglers (aka PopToggles), which are awesome anchors and my next step up in strength, are basically impossible to remove (except by maybe drilling them out or cutting them off with a razor, not easy). These you just unscrew.
Bottom line, I think these are great for moderately heavy things like mirrors. I consider them stronger than a simple plug or DuoPower, but less strong than a plastic Toggler. Great when used properly, in the right application, and if you use the quality ones (SnapSkru are best imo).
As for why you see so many of them failed, I would guess it's because so many inexperienced homeowners and DIYers are using them (partly because they can be used without a drill), that many are using them improperly, or to support loads that are far too heavy.
I agree. I use these regularly. They’re fantastic.
Had moderate success with the alloy versions, tip I've picked up is to push a thin bradawl through the plasterboard to find the depth behind, as I've screwed the item into the plasterboard only for the entry spike to bottom on the block wall behind and push the item out. Now I cut off the self drill bit, fit and remove the screw prior to screwing the insert in.
I never had one fail when I used them a long time ago - mainly because of the problem you highlighted at 11:56. Having fitted the item and then stupidly taken it down to decorate, all 4 fittings came out of the wall and stayed attached to the item. They were then difficult to get off and so they and the rest of the pack made a short and rapid trip to the bin accompanied by some choice phrases best not repeated. As for the holes they left behind for me to repair.......
I've used these for years but I pre drill with a 5/16" drill bit. They do have a limit as to what they are able to hold. Definitely check for water and electrical.
I use the Philips bit to start the hole. Works very well and keeps the fastener on target.
I use metal wall anchors how do you remove wall anchors when know longer need any tips or video would be good
I love them for sheetrock, but not for weight, 7kilos is way more than i would use them on.. Just better then into the paper
Great video. I've seen them used to hang radiator😳. I have used them to install room thermostatsand central heating controls.
What would you use for fixating AC unit (15 kg, 6x M4x25 screws) to 2x18 mm plasterboard? The tricky part is there is vapor protective foil righ behind it (so i cant go through the 2x18 plasterboard as it must not be pierced)
I used them to put up ELFA Sparring rails in my old office. They were the metal ones and I think the wall might have had 2 layers of plaster or plaster/plywood. Anyay they worked well with a pilot hole..
I have found a use for them mate, my kids like to use my kitchen cabinets as swings and of course once the doors have been ripped off you cannot get them back on. So i have screwed these into the plywood and its held together very well lol
Brilliant explanation. I was just about to go out and buy a pile because I thought they would be easier to use while putting up shelves in my pantry. Those shelves would be to hold up heavy items like cans and soap.
Cables in walls tip.
For example, in a domestic installation, where insulated and sheathed cables are concealed in a wall at a depth of less than 50 mm and have no mechanical protection, they need to be installed within the safe zones and need to be protected by a 30 mA RCD. Regulations 522.6.6 and 522.6.8 are reproduced here for information. 522.6.6 A cable concealed in a wall or partition at a depth of less than 50 mm from a surface of the wall or partition shall:
(i) Incorporate an earthed metallic covering which complies with the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor of the circuit concerned, the cable complying with BS 5467,BS 6346, BS 6724, BS 7846, BS EN 60702-1 or BS 8436, or
(ii) Be enclosed in earthed conduit complying with BS EN 61386 and satisfying the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or
(iii) Be enclosed in earthed trunking or ducting complying with BS EN 50085 and satisfying the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or
(iv) Be mechanically protected against damage sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable by nails, screws and the like, or
(v) Be installed in a zone within 150 mm from the top of the wall or partition or within 150 mm of an angle formed by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switch gear on any surface of the wall or partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switch gear. Where the location of the accessory, point or switch gear can be.
in canada we have similar one but instead of the 3 prong point on them thay are spiral point, they hold 50# each and can be driven with posi robertson or phillips driver, with our 5/8 plaster board in commercial setting they make for geat A/V install
As if my daily prayers didn't take long enough, NOW I have to pray for all of your A/V installations!
Even the instructions that come with tv/monitor wall mounts say NOT to use anything but direct stud connections and toggle screws as little as possible.
@@toobad9946 i said a/v not tv wall mount, a 3# speaker hung with 4 of those or a matrix is well secured with couple of those, even your tv mount in some case, i've seen plenty of 24" tv that the mount was glued and 4 of those used ro maintain pressure as the adhesive set since it could not have been screwed in the thin resilient bar
Those devices should ONLY be used to hang picture frames, such that they pull straight down.
Hi there!Thanks for this video.We just moved into a newly built house.We had a coat hanger on the wall already fixed that came with the house.My daughter was struggling to get her coat off one of the days and she pulled the hanger of the wall.Now looking at this video I can confirm that it was hanged with exactly these metal anchors and it left 2 huge holes in the wall.I am looking into re fitting the hanger back ,I am now in a limbo on what will be the best fittings to use.I think the wall is plasterboard.And again how can I fix the 2 big holes left by those anchors.
Looking forward for your response!
Some brands are just made better than others. E-Z Anchor brand does not pull out of the drywall when removing the screw, given that you used correct size screw (the one came with anchor).
I went to an old water damaged kitchen because the owner complained a door fell off. The 5mm expanding dowels holding the hinge plates to the mullion had simply given up on life. I used the metal wallmates in the 5mm holes, screwed in the plates and rehanged the door. I couldn't believe it worked buy the guy wasn't prepared to pay to replace his whole kitchen. So they kind of work in ~20year old water damaged chipboard.
I use these nylon fittings a lot. Had a few problems but generally OK. If you have to remove a screw then you are absolutely right - usually the fixing comes with it and you have a 1cm hole. I have cured this by putting another fixing in, this time fixed in place with Nomorenails. Leave it 24 and it’s rock solid, good for any load
I've been using these for a while now, and the metal ones at that (I must have been lucky so far), but I'll definitely change to the LDF fittings from now on - very useful thanks.
I agree, I hate those. They don't hold much weight, but more importantly, they leave quite a hole when they fail. Living in a home that has literally no drywall, at least I didn't have to worry about having to replace them. Of course, dealing with plaster and lathe brings its own challenges, would love to see how you deal with it when you run into it.
I used them for a spice rack and a guitar hanger no problem (albeit with pilot holes drilled first), but now you put it that way, I'm glad I watched this video before mounting a TV bracket. Especially with your point about the "catastrophic failure". I'll definitely look elsewhere now.
Those thingies work perfect as ear plugs. I've put two in and I can guarantee I can't hear anything anymore. ;)
No tradesman would use spiral fixings in a ceiling. Your test looks misleading, your pulling the fixings out vertically. if the fixings are in a wall, do the test pulling downwards, not straight out. Everyone has their own opinions on products. I have a corner wall unit in my kitchen that my wife has full of tin cans, The wall is a stud wall and the cabinet is on spiral fixings. Two brackets, four spirals, two per bracket. Its been up for 8 years. Next to it is a 300mm wall cabinet, also on spirals. That cabinet is full of herb bottles. it's not light. when I use spirals, I always make a make then make a very short pilot hole with a no 4 screw. I've never ever had a problem with them. But! I only use metal fixings
There's almost always an element of axial load on fittings when hanging anything thicker than a picture. Axial load tests are a standard 'worst case' test for comparison between different fittings.
Correct, these are wall fasteners--designed to take force parallel and very close to the drywall. To pull them out via force perpendicular to the "wall" only tests the strength of the drywall.
@@wlan246 Nope, they're designed for loads under any angle.
@@GosforthHandyman Drywall isn't. Like many aggregate materials, drywall is strong under compression, and weak under tension. If you're going to anchor something directly to a drywall ceiling, the best you can do is spread the load over as much of the opposite side of the drywall as possible, such as a toggle bolt. Nothing that digs into the panel and relies on the tensile strength of gypsum is going to perform well.
Well that's just not true. Every light and fan that's not fixed by a stud has been done with these in the house i live in. Some trade people are lazy halfwits
Somewhere somebody is watching this and telling their missus he's watching some screwing on the internet and that he's learnt an exploratory penetration prior to screwing is a must.
It's also essential that the correct hole is selected😂
Last time i used one, I suffered from premature.... failure.
Just tell the missus the next time she has a job that requires some screwing to look for a stud she will find it a more satisfying job.
@@George_in_Howden If she finds a stud a good nailing against the wall will give excellent results.
Well, problem is , the more it is tighf, the least endurance...
Is it the fixings that fail or the p-b? I find they are great for putting lights up, but the repetitive cycling of load on a coat hook eventually shakes them loose, even if I squirt in adhesive.
It's the plasterboard that fails. 👍
Best way to use the spiral fixings is to cut off The drill tip off the plug, drill a 5mm hole and use the provided screws or of similar diameter. What I find is the screw bottoms out on where the drill tip starts, and although the screw should either snap off the metal and cut through the nylon but seldom does. For anything with weight I would not use them but for some instances they have their use.
Thanks for the heads-up! What is your opinion of the non-self-drilling Fischer GK (for light duty), used with the Fischer GK setting tool? In my country I cannot get the LDF, or GPF so regular GK is one of my few options for drywall-between-studs. We do have DuoPower though, so perhaps that will be the answer ;-)
I have one side of a towel rack held with two of the metal screw ins and it’s holding strong 3 years later. I like them for hanging things that don’t see much live load
good work you changed my view on these anchors.
I use these all the time but you have to use the right ones. The ones I use, you can hear the plastic break open as it spreads out to clamp itself in. And you have to use the the screws that came with it.
Nice Video i have had similar problems in the past after much testing and failures I know try to use core-fix fixings on any load on a plasterboard wall admittedly its a 10 mm hole but they actually go into the block-work behind the plasterboard so good testing of the area is required but when in they are solid
Corefix are great. 👍
A bigger issue is what they go into. Builders use plaster board that is dirt cheap yet they only use single sheet thickness.If you use double thickness sheet you actually get a solid wall with way better sound insulation for a fractional increase on the overall cost of a building.
I saw an amazing alternative on a channel
Big well designed plastic with strings attached
Think they fit through a 25mm hole and really impressed
Guy demonstrated on a bit of gyppy v other fixings àñď there was no comparison
Pricey but you could leave a proper good job
I'm going to try them next week to hang a tv bracket
I can screw into the brick behind also but I'm looking forward to seeing how the new tech works
Belt and braces
Thanks for the warning. I picked up a batch of these (screws + plugs) some time back when I saw them on special offer, but haven't had cause to use them. Maybe I won't now. But I wonder: would the screws themselves be fine with other plugs?
Should be fine although supplied screws can vary in quality a lot. 👍
I use these all the time around my house to hang items my wife wants and they have never gave me issues.
I also like that they are easy to remove and putty over quickly.
as always real world helpful information, nice one
Hmmmm. Just bought a bag of these for attaching the foundation for multi layer crown molding between kitchen cabinets and ceiling. I think they can handle the load, but you did give me a good idea, which is to run the #8 screw in and out of the anchor a few times before installing in the ceiling. Because there will be some trial and error in the installation of the crown, I want to make sure a screw does not get stuck in the anchor when trying to remove one.
That was very interesting !.never would have expected it
I am chucking away my collection of these! lol. With your fancy setup are you planning to re-test my favourite, the hollow wall anchor?
Yup! 👍
@@GosforthHandyman Excellent, look forward to that, and not long till season 3 of measuring up!
For plasterboard blinds fitting which one would you recommend?
Ooft!! That was an eye opener!
Cheers. Very interesting.
Snaptoggles are the best, but expensive... (Screwfix are selling now).. If you have enough space behind dry wall to turn it to line up with the wall. I use the Fischer ldf plugs the most though... and can use in masonry walls. Fischer do one designed for both but I like the grey ones more. I have a tub of those metal anchors in my car...I'll give them to someone I don't like 😊
Here's an interesting one for you - As a sparkie, the new edition of our regs now requires us provide an installation that will not collapse due to a fire. It was told to us (the class that I did my update on) that a plastic plug in a brick wall meets this requirement because of the heat dissipation of the brick, however a plastic plug in a piece of plasterboard does not due to the heat transfer from the fire melting the plug in the plasterboard, therefore we must use either metal spiral fittings- not my personal choice, or other metal plasterboard fittings (i.e. spring toggles or hollow wall anchors(Would be interested to see your pull out tests on these also!)). Personally I wouldn't entertain any sort of plastic fixing in plasterboard out of habit (purely because of the requirements of my trade).
I heard that plastic cable clips were for the chop but didn't realise all plastic plugs had to go! Lordy... What about when fittings are just screwed to studs / wooden battens (e.g. in the ceiling for lights) - surely the burning wood wouldn't pass these new tests? Anyhoo, yeah - the expanding metal anchors would probably do the job but way overkill for most scenarios. Hmm... 🤔👍
When used Properly and not over-tightened, and when using the proper sized screws the screw-in nylon anchors work exceptionally well in dry wall and they can support a lot of weight. Good precautionary points about the metal screw in anchors.
What happens when you need to remove one? Is one easier? Does it leave less damage?
Huge advantage to have a higher peak after initial failure, as you know it needs to be sorted, without having shattered or broken the hanging object. Luckily I don't have any plaster board to deal with, I only have a couple of small bits of lath to have to deal with, the rest of the walls are all brick.
Before retiring, I occasionally used these fixings but believed that they were more reliable if I first drilled a pilot hole with a HSS metal drill as this reduced the degredation of the plasterboard. I would be interested to know whether this was indeed the case or purely my imagination.
Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. I met those self-drilling plasterboard fittings two years ago in Germany when I was helping Slovak electricians over there.
I can confirm that they are terrible. I was very surprised that time because Fischer normally makes excellent products.
I wonder what the philosophy behind the product is: Was it introduced before of after the "normal" plasterboard plugs?
Btw: do you have experience with the so-called Walabot? According the commercial (it pops up as an ad before nearly every YT video i watch) it can look through
plasterboard (and concrete/brick?!) till a depth of 100 mm. But except the commercials and written reviews on their website, I've never seen somebody
using it in real. If it really works it should have enormous selling numbers.
Yeah, Fischer make excellent fixings. I suspect they just have to jump on the bandwagon to avoid losing market share. They should stop making them in my view. 👍
Thanks for the advice will only use them for low risk situations swing as I have a box of them. The carnage left behind is awful.
I work at a hardware store There's only one Anchor I recommend for drywall Which are called hollow wall anchors
Wow this is interesting. I been using these type of anchors almost exclusively after I got sick of using the cheap red or blue plastic anchors. I thought these were supposed to be better! I feel dumb now. I've also experienced the catastrophic failure with these anchors. I think I'm going to switch to the expanding drywall anchor (I believe these are often referred to as Mollys in America).
Not your fault - I've seen these advertised as 'heavy duty' and they're anything but. I think Mollys are the expanding metal ones - they're great. 👍
The ones I've used in the US are different, they are threaded the whole way and are expanding. On older houses, they are pretty much the only thing that holds in lathe & plaster.
If pushed you might be able to use a large GripIt fixing in the mess that is left when these "fixings" come out. They are very expensive though and getting the centre in the right place could be a challenge. When you encountered these in the past I bet no-one could believe just how long it takes to repair the hole and re-fix the item with something decent.
The upstairs partitions in my house are made of strammit board. Not many plugs grip well into this. For lightweight items I find the Fischer 42793 PDM 35mm Metal Self Drill Plasterboard Fixing works well but I do always pilot drill then first.
For heavier things e.g. small radiators I tend to use cavity fixings.
Great video, Andy- but i wish you wouldn't be so ambiguous about those anchors.... please tell us how you REALLY feel about them! lol
😂😷💩
Those are pretty good. Just be realistic in you expectations. Use those and toggle bolts in electrical work quite a bit.
I've used the plastic version for hanging my guitars on the wall, the heaviest of which is 4.3kg. Granted I used 2 for each guitar, but they aren't showing any signs of failure.
I used the same for a pendant on the ceiling, pulled straight out.
I think theses are fine if the force of the object is at 90° to the plug.
Yes, most fittings can take much higher shear loads and these *should* be fine with 4.3kg. 👍
i seen some builders screw the plastic ones into the board with mastic !!! claiming it helps bond the plastic to the plaster
Lol, yes - I suppose also using glue might help a bit... 😂👍
Only today ive been using the metal ones. You Must drill the screw in & out a couple of times whilst holding it with pliers.
Ive been putting up 7kg light fittings with 3 drywall metal fixings into a doubled skin 12.5 mm plasterboard ceiling. I also pilot the hole with a 7mm drill 1st & did NOT use an impact wrench.
My new guitar hangers came with these horrible things and I thought of this video after I tossed them in the bin and reached for my DuoPower's. Hope your move is going well.
Hi good video. Could you tell us your opinion of the Geefix attachments
All the best.
John West
Previous owner of my house used these to mount the curtain pole brackets. Made a complete mess of the walls when I removed the brackets to wallpaper because they obviously came out with the screws ☹️
I use these for putting controllers on the wall, they're pretty great and rapid. Top tip is top use the screw to create a pre hole then fire it in. Works perfectly every time.
Interesting results especially between the two materials. I pretty much gave up on these s couple of years a go and stick primarily with brown rawlplugs, but if these fail I will use your tip about chewing gum 😜
I agree I've had such problems using that type of plug
I had considered the long version of these for securing plywood sheething on a 5cm AAC wall.
What kind of plug would be best suited for 5cm AAC blocks?
Have you tried my go-to plasterboard fixings Metal Hollow wall anchors? They can easily be found on eBay and similar by searching that. I really like them and they have yet to fail for me except the time that I didn't realise that the hole I made in the wall hit a stud and the anchor parts were not able to expand behind the plasterboard. Destroyed a printer and a speaker that was under it and threw a ton of CD cases that was in the shelf across the floor. Will not do that mistake again. Though they are easier to use with a special tool, that isn't very expensive, that expands the anchors they can be used without it if you are careful and not tighten them to fast and avoid the impact driver. They can also be removed by carefully pushing the screw in or reversing while pushing on it or just use a dead blow hammer, though it's preferable if you have thicker plasterboard since it's lesser risk of making a bigger hole by doing that.
I have also wondered how well Metal Plasterboard spring anchors work but haven't tried them since they are harder to find where I live and the hollow wall anchors have been working good for me.
Yup - they're my go-to. Tested them a while back and will probably do another vid on them. 👍
Hi mate ,what is best to use to fix TV bracket to plasterboard with polystyrene in the cavity so can't get most of those fittings that tighten being the plasterboard? Thanks
My favourite use for the plastic version of these is shoring up loose wall mount boxes, just put two in on the diagonal next to the box and it's staying in there solid. I wouldn't recommend this for anyone, but it works well. And yes the boxes in question were mounted by a professional electrician, but none of them seems to be affixed to an upright or anything. I think the box is supposed to be one of those "self affixing" types, but they either used the wrong lock rings or wrong screws, or the holes are simply too large, not sure.
Thanks for a great video. I used the nylon ones a lot when I lived in both Canada and USA and they always worked fine, at least for moderate loads. When I moved back to UK, I quickly bought some but they failed me immediately, usually spinning inside the plasterboard. And the UK plasterboard does somehow seem different in consistency to North American "drywall" sheetrock. Are they an American invention perhaps? But yes, they are a pain when they fail.