3 POINTLESS Things Audio Engineers Are OBSESSED With
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Mixing buzzwords and "must have" plugin trends that aren't worth the hype...or your time.
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Computer / Interface:
Mac M1 Studio Max sweetwater.sjv.io/anOMOo
Avid Carbon sweetwater.sjv.io/ZQ6M6g
Apogee Duet 3 sweetwater.sjv.io/y2qXqb
Monitors / Headphones:
Avantone CLA-10a sweetwater.sjv.io/WqyMyZ
Audio Technica ATH-M50 sweetwater.sjv.io/PyOMON
Microphones:
Shure SM57 sweetwater.sjv.io/daOMy7
AKG D112 sweetwater.sjv.io/Kj0MBy
Sennheiser e604 sweetwater.sjv.io/DKyvWa
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AKG C451b sweetwater.sjv.io/jre9Rv
Shure SM81 sweetwater.sjv.io/eK1LnD
Audio Technica AT4050 sweetwater.sjv.io/JzKMqr
Preamps/Outboard:
API 3124 sweetwater.sjv.io/eK1LRD
EL8 Distressor sweetwater.sjv.io/XYmMd4
Favorite Plugins:
BSA Clipper blacksaltaudio.com/clipper
Escalator blacksaltaudio.com/escalator
Low Control blacksaltaudio.com/low-control
Waves SSL Bundle waves.alzt.net/dMd4q
Waves CLA Compressors waves.alzt.net/0va0P
Waves Platinum waves.alzt.net/jxz2M
Slate Trigger 2 sweetwater.sjv.io/MmAM53
SoundToys Rack sweetwater.sjv.io/xkLgyd
Auto-tune Pro sweetwater.sjv.io/OreMYr
Vocalign Project sweetwater.sjv.io/xkLgyA
Cranesong Phoenix II sweetwater.sjv.io/PyOMrz
Instruments / Amps:
Ludwig Black Beauty Snare sweetwater.sjv.io/1r9vDR
Gibson Les Paul sweetwater.sjv.io/B0nvz1
Evertune Guitars sweetwater.sjv.io/WqyM6P
Fender Jazz Bass sweetwater.sjv.io/nLX5R6
Sansamp Bass Driver DI sweetwater.sjv.io/OreM9Q
EVH 5150 sweetwater.sjv.io/4PGvr9
Mesa 2x12 cab sweetwater.sjv.io/75avGA - Hudba
That level of meticulousness directed toward songwriting and performance will create a better mix than something that 99.999% of people are never going to notice.
Yes. Get it right at the source.
I like auto gain… helps me focus on the sound I want and not just „oh it’s awesome because it’s loud now“.
But I see your point here. Auto gain needs a lot more research or at least better implementation… often it’s just added without making it work for the plug-in but against it.
I use plug-in doctor to see what a plug-in is doing, not as a tool to make decisions or evaluate a plug-in. I’m an astrophysicist (and have been in the music business for many years), and I want to know what my tools do in detail. And I probably would connect a pedal to an oscilloscope if I was a guitar player.
But I do agree that such tools as plug-in doctor, like any tool, can be used for the wrong thing, and can mislead someone who does not know what they are doing.
Honestly I have to disagree a little bit about the gain matching. I think its obvious for someone who is very experienced like you, but as a beginner this is so important. I remember when I started out, there were so many presets in my DAW that are just boosting the signal. For example a preset is called something like 'Electric Guitar EQ' and its just rubbish, but its boosting basically every frequency and I remember as a beginner I was like alright that sounds much better as before. It took quite some time to learn that louder is not necessary better, and I think thats one of the most important lessons for beginner. Auto Gain buttons are surely not needed for pros but I think they can help beginners to give them a second perspective on how the plugin actually changes the sound.
Thank you, exactly what i was thinking
And even for experts, it’s very convenient to have auto gain. It’s such a pain in the ass to repeatedly A/B a signal, turn down the plugin output gain, A/B, etc.
Yeah, he makes it seem like eq and saturation are only used to add frequency content. Maybe for him, but sometimes for me, the whole point is to shift the frequency balance, or create perceived loudness, and you gotta level match to do that
@@23rdJar yup, exactly
i'd say even pros majorly benefit from autogain features. no matter how pro you are, you'll always fall for 'louder is better'. you can only remind yourself to check and manually turn down the wet gain, but at that point: why not just let the plugin do it, if it offers that feature, right?
Differences being harder to hear when using gain matching is kind of the point. EQ...it kind of has a point. But with saturation specifically, you are going to make it louder when you start adding saturation. Which will, generally, make it sound better. If you add the saturation with (good) level matching and you can't hear it getting better....there's no real reason to add the saturation. Just turn it up a bit.
Thank you for writing this so I don't have to!
Jordan straight to the point as usual, if it wasn’t for this man I’d be still strugling with my mixes…you’re the man Jordan, HCMS is the best! Thank you!
no pointless intros and dumbass thumbnails, praise this man
The analog emulation plugins such as compression do add harmonic content and therefore can alias... Oversampling in eq can stop cramping.... Oversampling is useful imo but is only a small consideration in my mixes... ⚡💪👍
Yeah that’s true but I want to add that getting rid of cramping by oversampling is a very brute-force way of doing it. A better way is to come up with math that doesn’t cramp in the first place, like proq3 exc.
@@aboliguu1168 great point well said 👍
"Children's horror stories" like aliasing and cramping are for the most part not really audible problems in real musical material, but simply "a condom inflated to the size of an airship" and spread around every corner by some impressionable individuals out of fear "whatever happens." But in fact, another bullshit, in most cases not affecting either the "hit" or the quality of the product.
@@AlexHStudio Completely disagree. Aliasing causes harmonics to bounce back down into the audible spectrum as inharmonic content aka not related to the source.
It’s most easily audible on a sine sweep, but in an actual mix content it adds harsh unpleasant overtones that sound very ‘digital’ to my ear.
If you have a saturation plugin with an oversampling toggle, add a fairly heavy amount of saturation and then toggle it on and off.
I can pretty clearly hear the digital harshness without oversampling, and the pleasant saturation you get with it on.
The higher your session sample rate the more saturation you will need for it to be audible though, since higher sample rates are kind of like less effective brute force oversampling since it pushes the ‘harmonic bounce back point’ higher.
I think it’s mostly unnecessary outside of heavy saturation though.
Cranesong Phoenix aliases like crazy but many pros still use it until now@@kebbinator
I think gain matching matters when you're doing compression. Especially with compression, you don't want to hype yourself up because it just sounds loud and consistent, especially with vocals. You now hear the consistency of the vocals and also some characteristics from the compressor itself, but also bring it down so you don't blow your eardrums out. The other two, I don't deal with already. The only time I ever mess with oversampling is if it's hogging too much CPU when it's at its default settings. If there's no oversampling and it's still using a lot of CPU, then I would just freeze the track or use a different plugin. Plugin Doctor, I have never bought or used. I've seen people use them as a comparison to other plugins, like people comparing SSL plugins to each other. Even though it's cool to see, I want to hear what goes on because we're doing audio.
Absolutely psychologically we hear louder as better, and that's not accurate, and because of that by ear is basically impossible.
The Dr plugin? Looks like a spectrum analyzer but The frequency spectrum was all statically looking for some reason in that shot. Spectrum analyzers are extremely productive tools to help you target where precisely the mud is without having to spend much energy on that process. Yes you need to make sure to listen to make sure your eq cut isn't too steep or if maybe it actually sounds better with a bit more frequency overlap, but both makeup gain and a spectrum analyzer are tools that are efficiency boosters, and everything you can use to expedite your process gives you more time for other clients or just for you and your loved ones, which means you're just giving yourself a a raise by using them. Otherwise you're playing yourself.
and you dont have to mess with a bunch of volumes with the makeup gain you should have submix gain controls, and you could just select all of them except the one with the track you want more prominent and select the rest of the individual track gains within that submix and pull them down a smidge rather than making everything louder and fatiguing which causes you to not be able to work as long.
And the headroom you will have leftover from the saturation you added instead of just bringing up the gain on that track will save you time and frustration when you're trying to get the track within range of the standard concerning lufs rather than having to completely redo the whole mix to meet Spotify's specs.
Ehh I'm feeling kinda torn on this, especially the eq gain matching stuff. Gain matching is there so people can separate the effects of an eq/comp/etc. adjustment and the adjustment in volume.
I think it's harder to judge what you're actually doing with an eq move without loudness matching. It's EASIER TO HEAR, yes, but harder to objectively judge.
Because as you said, if we want to "make it bigger", "take up more space in the mix", "add more energy", we can simply do these with adding volume. We can also do these with eq moves, adding saturation etc. Maybe we want both aspects, and therefore gain matching is useless, sure.
Gain matching is useful because to people without much experience in mixing, boosting pretty much any frequency on an eq will sound "better", just because it's louder. Is it better because it's louder, or because you boosted a frequency that makes it sit better in a mix? Gain matching might help you decide. Or you want to compare two different eq instances on the same track? Using gain matching on both will make it easier.
With experience, these moves will combine in the mixers head and become second nature, like "these guitars lack a bit of sharpness and also a bit too quiet, so boosting some 2k should do the trick" and of course in this case, gain matching is unnecessary.
But I agree that if people focus too much on gain matching everything, that can be a waste of time. It's a tool, to be used when needed.
Also, the reasoning that "back in the day no one used gain matching, and we still made great albums" is meh. Sure, when we had only landline phones, we could still talk to people we really wanted, but that doesn't mean mobile phones are useless.
So yeah, I'd say calling it "pointless" is a liiittle too much, it's just a tool that you might need or might not need. And yeah, if someone cries about "x plugin doesn't have auto gain-matching", that's also pretty dumb.
I agree with your point about Plugin Doctor, but I do think it has some merits. For example I was able to take all the CLA plugins (CLA Drums, CLA Bass, etc) and recreate their natural EQ curves on an SSL channel by matching the graphs visually. Then when I'm mixing I can add the SSL channel with the preset EQ moves and alter them to fit the particular track. So it's not a completely useless tool.
Yeah I don’t think he’s saying it’s useless, simply that if something sounds good to you, then it dosnt matter what Plugin Doctor says. As a tool to help you find out “why” it sounds good- very useful. As a tool for using in a mixing/mastering workflow- it’s like using a microscope to cook dinner.
I would agree plugin doctor doesn't really have its place during mixing or mastering, but I think there is a use for it to just know if a plugin is doing anything or what its actually boosting when it's not labeled at all, can be useful to just understand the inner working of the plugin so you just know what to adjust when you're looking for something rather than try every knob until you find the one that fits.
Why do you *need* to know though? Even if a control is unlabelled just play with it to hear the difference and decide if it sounds good or not. And if you can't hear a big enough difference to make that decision with your ears then the plugin is either useless or not necessary in that context.
@@RedbeardMaximus so I know what to go for instead of trying 3-4 knobs until I find the thing I'm looking for, like if I want more bass, I want to go for something that tweaks the bass
@@stonepaq so instead of just tweaking some knobs and listening, you open up a totally separate plugin then tweak the knobs anyway and watch a graph to tell you what you're hearing.
Did you even watch the video my guy? 😂
@@RedbeardMaximus No, you open the plugin once to know what knob boosts the frequency range you want, no need to open it after that ever again.
@@stonepaq when you could have just used your ears instead of adding steps. But hey, it's your time you're wasting 🤷🏼
I think some of these are blanket statements. Plugin doctor can be very misleading if misused but there are situations where it is very important. Here I think your point is about creative mixing, but there is technical mixing where the mix needs to hit certain standards. Where it can be very useful to change spectrum balances without adding significant loudness, for example when I was doing ear training for broadcasting, the goal was to shift the balance without adding too much loudness, because the loudness needed to be dealt with so carefully to meet standards. Oversampling is debatable but especially in marketing of plugins, no analogy emulation should have fold back harmonics so I understand why people would want oversampling.
I also would like to suggest that if you want to understand plugin doctor and someone who generally uses it fairly and correctly, I suggest Dan Worrall
Edit: another important point for oversampling, is that when doing filtering in DSP oversampling can be very important, most notably in mixing as an anti cramping measure. For those people interested in DSP, I would highly suggest watching air windows development streams. Chris has a unique personality but does amazing work and watching a few of his streams or reading about his plugins can help illuminate how DSP works.
Plugin doctor can be incredibly helpful for training your ears. I could definitely help someone hear the difference between even and odd harmonics in a saturation plugin, for example, which saves time in the future as you’ll know what to expect for the sound. Having that visual feedback can be incredibly helpful IN CONJUNCTION with the sound. Your whole perspective on plugin doctor ignores things like that. It also ignores the fact that you may not hear aliasing or similar issues within a single plugin, but over the course of an entire mix with countless plugins introducing minor aliasing, that can add up to a very audible difference.
I'm going to keep this short.
Autogain is/isn't useful depending on your workflow. Personally I *do* try and gain match every plugin but that's just so I'm not fooling myself about louder=better.
I do sometimes use plugin doctor when I'm demoing new plugins to validate what I'm hearing. I'm not always as objective as I think I am and do have natural biases which colour my judgement.
I decided some time ago to abandon all plugins which introduce harmonics but don't have oversampling. It's not the most important thing when mixing but it does make a difference. So why compromise when you don't have to.
Jordan, love your channel.
Thank you for writing this so I don't have to!
i used pro-L2 for many years religiously on the master to finalize the sound. but once i found the button that autocompensates for volume differences i realized it is an incredibly small effect.
that was an eye-opener. it makes you more sensitive for what you're actually doing. same with saturation. the purpose is not to make things loud. the purpose is to add harmonics by cutting peaks. and you hear that best when the volume is compensated.
with eqs i also usually keep it enabled, because when boosting a guitar's midrange you don't want the midrange to be louder, but just more prominent in relation to everything else. the autogain exposing that the change wasn't so bombastic after all is just what you need to find even better decisions
Really appreciated this one! My thoughts on the 3 things…
1) Auto Gain - EQ autogain is nuts. Only useful in very select circumstances. Sometimes useful to do a relative gain match before and after mixing or mastering but it will never be accurate due to balance changes anyway.
2) It’s only needed in circumstances when the additional added content is unwanted. No point using it and wasting CPU just for “quality”.
3) Only useful as a learning tool or to troubleshoot an issue you are hearing.
Really good video all around!
Plugin doctor is also useful when you know you are weak to hype. If you pull up the Magical EQ Plugin and realize it's just a digital EQ that you can completely match with your stock plugin...
When you start hearing aliasing as an unpleasent inharmonic presence then I think oversampling can really work. Only ever heard it in very niche synthesizers; I tried turning it on and off in guitar amp sims, pedal sims, but those I couldn't really hear. I'm no mixing engineer, just a musician for a long time, but if I can't hear it, regular listeners won't even have a remote chance.
I think auto-gain started with SSL dynamics. When you compress on a 4000G+, it auto-gains for you and the company was very proud of that addition (I read that in a manual)
@@spenserwilliams5592 I didn’t actually know that was a special feature on that compressor.
I will agree that auto gain on compressors can be really helpful in some situations.
I personally much prefer to set my own amount of make up gain. Make up gain is probably the easiest setting on a compressor and if it can’t be set right, I can’t imagine the user setting the ratio, threshold, attack and release correctly!
@@inthemix True, I usually do that and then use the bypass button for a|b’ing the processing. But, I could see auto-gain working for some people. Maybe some who have better dynamics in the end, maybe some with worse mixes in the end. Doesn’t really matter how they got there as long as they did the work.
Saturation is supposed to make things “sound” louder but not necessarily be louder.
Yep you can bring that sound out without actually easing the db.
saturations is supposed to add harmonic therefore making the sound actually louder, autogain reduces the gain that the new harmonic introduce.
I actually somewhat disagree about oversampling… yes, not every plug-in needs to have oversampling. But the whole point of it is to keep *unwanted* distortions out of it. So to your point on people complaining that plug-ins aren’t clean - it’s not that we want the plug-ins to be totally clean, it’s that we don’t want them to introduce unpleasant distortions that the original analog hardware wouldn’t introduce. I use both on a daily basis, and yes I find myself reaching for analog more nowadays (easier to mix with your ears imo), but if I load an analog modeled plug-in, I don’t want it to cause problems in the mix that otherwise could be avoidable. And, as someone else mentioned, certain EQs and compressor plug-ins can totally introduce harmonics. I agree that not every plug-in needs it, and I seldom have to use it, but oversampling is not completely useless in the mix. Maybe it’s not worth every armchair amateur mixer getting up in arms about, but it’s helpful in some cases.
Great tips as usual. Your channel has helped me so much- I took a ten year break from producing after changing to a completely different career, and just recently produced my band's record and was binge-watching your videos throughout. I went to audio school, worked in an amazing NYC studio for years under an awesome mentor, and still learn just as much from your videos!
I mostly agree with this video but there's some mischaracterizations. First of all, I don't know what the randos in the comment section are saying but one reason to include oversampling is because lots of these plugins advertise themselves as having an analog sound or being an analog emulation. Well, analog doesn't alias so how can claim to be a faithful recreation of analog gear? Secondly, gain matching produces a weird side effect on EQ (I remember I first got the Purafied SLP and thought it sounded strange; it turns out the auto-gain was by default). It does have it's purposes though; to check to see if a maximizer (or any of these "one knob" plugins) are actually increasing the fullness or if it's mostly just increasing the gain. Lastly, I don't think oversampling on guitar amps is placebo; sometimes it makes the distortion sound more natural. All in all, people are just parroting what people like Wyste from White Sea Studio say. The difference is, he's just trying plugins out quickly and saying the features he would like to see; it doesn't necessarily mean that those features are important for improving to sound or improving the workflow
By nature, louder sounds better to our ears. So yeah, adjusting volume to match the volume before the effects DOES matter. That way you can identify if your changes were indeed better rather than just louder(which you naturally think sounds better). Not adjusting the volume can lead people to apply effects that aren't needed or get to a point where they are working harder for no reason. Or worse, make everything worse but not noticing it because the volume increase tricked them into thinking it sounded better.
Most people tend to reach for the fader is something gets too loud in a mix. The whole “it’s louder so therefore we think it sounds better” is something everyone repeats but it doesn’t play out like that in the real world.
If I decide something requires certain processing, then that’s a decision I made and to concern myself with how the processed version sounds compared to the unprocessed is a total waste of time and more likely to lead to worse decisions. So there’s little purpose matching the levels of them.
So it really doesn’t matter if I raise the level of a track when adding any processing, the focus is whether it works in the mix and everyone compensates accordingly when something gets too loud in a mix.
Here’s the reality behind the gain matching debate, and it’s not quite as black-and-white as it seems to be discussed here. The point of gain matching specifically in a TUTORIAL video is to demonstrate the difference the processing makes for a beginner, without the increase in volume tricking them. Louder typically always sounds better due to the way the human ear perceives frequencies at different volumes. Considering your viewer base consists mostly of people trying to learn the basics, it’s fair to assume that most people’s ears aren’t yet properly trained! Would I gain match every single time in a real-world scenario? No. But it’s also important to distinguish WHEN and WHY an increase/decrease in volume due to processing is significant. I’ll use your example of “EQing more bite into the guitars.” The reason you wouldn’t use auto gain is because every other area of the guitar’s tonal energy is balanced, EXCEPT for the midrange. You’re raising the volume of the bite ONLY. Auto gain is useful if you’re looking purely for a tonal change (I use it a lot when producing, but not as much when mixing). In a mix though, you’re trying to get certain things to meet other elements across the spectrum… so a volume increase is usually necessary in context. Again, the gain matching is for TUTORIAL’S SAKE, especially if things are also being demonstrated in solo to make it easier for beginners to hear the change. In CONTEXT, you wouldn’t always gain match… but you can explain that while also helping beginner engineers train their ears a bit better. “I gain matched the processing for this example so that you’re not tricked by volume, but in context, I’m not volume matching because [REASON].” Best of both worlds my friend! Love the content, keep it up :)
Andrew Scheps also thinks autogain is unnecessary. Of course your ears will fool you into thinking that louder sounds better, but if you're mixing in context, maybe louder IS better. You don't ever get your faders in the perfect position before you start adding compression and EQ, and if it sounds good it is good. Yes, the snake oil argument is real, but the cure for that is to buy tools for specific jobs, not because they're the shiny new thing (good luck with that by the way LOL).
I really appreciate your point of view in this video and I think it helps build different workflow needs in this area. In my point of view, I still think we can make autogain and over sampling an option in our toolbox in case we need them. Plugin doctor does help us decide what sort of tool would fit our needs, as our ears can be deceiving.
I like your straightforward style! Don't ever lose that!
I once saw a tutorial by a mixing engineer whose work I have listened to for years and absolutely loved. I realized he did not put on oversampling on a plugin and I contacted him directly on Facebook. He was like that doesn't matter... I was like... what? He said no it doesn't matter. I love the songs he has mixed and do I love them any less... no. Do they sound great to me? Yes! The bottom line is start with a great SONG! Trust your ears and move on
Did you really reach out to him about that?
yes I did. Because everyone was shouting from the hilltops... oversampling@@KeepTheGates
Oversampling is not an issue if you use Reaper (yeah I know, another Reaper user knocking on your door like a Jehovah witness) where oversampling is built in (Decapitator x4 OS? I'll take it) and generally distortion plug ins, clippers, limiters, even compressors where intermodulation distortion *can* be audible in the constant push/pull arrangement. I know its a buzz word, but there is actually a reason there is a buzz around it, imo.
Gain compensation is rather educational so one can make a more informed decision. When you know very well what plug in it is you're reaching for and why, gain compensation is not very important, or at all. The problem is the amount of time you spend if your plug in (or your DAW...hint hint) does not have a built in delta solo function, to quickly match the gain and listen to what the process actually does.
Reaper is on another lvl
Chain oversample , delta solo and more lol
I have learned so much from you, Jordan. And your presentation style is great. Thanks for all you do!
In your example boosting the guitar with EQ is both adding a bell curve in the EQ and gaining in one step... if you make the same move with auto EQ you then need to push the fader up for the same result - difference is, you can now A/B the EQ without a level change. This is one of the reasons we love Pultec EQs - boost/cut doesn't effect your levels so you are only equalizing the signal. I find that pretty useful.
Is that true?? I thought Pultecs were additive/subtractive?
@@tommy9951Absolutely. Pultecs use passive filters which only reduce signal level. The tube circuits are in the amp which brings the level back to unity.
Use your ears - yes. But I have a couple of issues with this video. Aliasing noise isn't the same as the more natural harmonics produced by clipping analog gear. You won't always hear it but it can build up over multiple tracks. For the sake of a button that reduces it, why not add that into some plugins? As for gain matching, how many times do saturation plugins sound better when demoed because they add overall gain, not just through the harmonic content but because of the input gain used to drive them? In fact, this is a case when you *can't* always trust your ears because they like to tell you: Louder is better. I was using an excellent free saturator yesterday and was grateful for the option of inverse-linked input and output controls as it gave me more time to listed to the actual changes in sound without constantly battling simple level changes.
Such a good point on the eq autogain. We want that frequency to be louder!
Got no idea who this guy is but every demonstration he does sounds great and his info is fantastic. Grateful that there's guys out here making videos.
Regarding oversampling and analog devices - I understand that you can downplay this issue, but as you probably know, you can't directly compare them because it's a different type of saturation. Transformers of analog devices introduce mainly even harmonics into the signal, while aliasing introduces odd harmonics. The effect on the sound of these two phenomena is very different.
2 things ...
1) if you cant hear a difference after eq ing and level match - you might just need to increase the volume of the track, dont even bother about eq)
2) i wouldnt put digital aliasing on the same level as analog saturation/distortion. nowhere near. that being said i often prefer not oversampled sound to oversampled.
With EQ gain matching depends, when notching is a big no, changing the balance in a signal yes. At the end the fader is the king for volume and energy.
I like gain matching with saturation because I like to hear the difference just in the harmonics added, saturation can make it fuller and chop the peaks off.
If I want more volume, just turn the fader up.
If I know I'm going to be boosting eq, or adding saturation, I'll first start by bringing the plugin's output down and then add the boosts until I hear how much I need. If I need more, I bring the output down a bit more and then add the boost. The goal is to hear more of the frequency you want, not add volume. If you just want the track louder, you turn the fader up. Yes, it can be harder to hear what you're doing, but this is how you train your ears to hear what very subtle boosts are doing. Then, instead of pulling a frequency up by 6-10dB, you'll be able to hear that frequency with only boosting 3dB.
So much energy spent on perfection and being analytical. Part of me wants to be a kid again recording into a 4 track having the time of my life! Figure it out but let's have fun while we're doing it yeah?
Jordan all three points are spot on as usual. At the end of it all those crazy mix decisions you're left with a song. How does that song make the audience feel.
Awesome advice. Thanks!!
Hands down my favourite channel about mixing. Thanks so much🙏
I agree with the sentiment and with the conclusion in this video, but oversampling definitely affects eq and compressors. The question is which eq benefits from it. For example, many EQs exhibit cramping in the highs and an external oversampling like DDMF's Metaplugin can fix that. And any analog style EQ and compressors will also introduce saturation which is something to watch out for. That said, in my experience most of the time it doesn't matter all that much, it depends on the plugin, you might not even need to fix EQ cramping because this is only manifest in the real highs. In my opinion, aliasing becomes more apparent when processing a full mix so I render the full mix and open a new session with plugins running with high oversampling so your CPU can breathe a little more.
Hear hear!!!! Very important topics and I'm glad even one of all the YT producers have guts to say it loud.
speaking of analyzers, they're just that, analyzers. And most great mixes probably don't look like a total flatline, but rather have some sort of upper midrange excitement during the upfront parts such as the chorus.
Coming in hot with the gain matching. Thank you for setting us free haha, such a a pain trying match gain meticulously. YOU DA MAN
Great points all around on this one, after watching I realized I was selecting “Auto Gain” sometimes out of habit…not necessity. Thanks for the always useful info! 🤘
Once again you are bringing the truth! I've been a full time audio professional for decades (I work in Audio Post Production but all of these ideas still apply) and I completely agree. I couldn't care less about auto gain. Sometimes I think oversampling sounds better but usually don't bother and I haven't had the time or inclination to care what something looks like in a program like Plugin Doctor. If it sounds good to me then it's good.
you can see it like this: an eq is basically a frequency specific level fader. if you boost things, you make it louder. that's what you want by the end of the day. but gain matching on a eq sometimes shows that a volume boost on the channel fader basically has the same effect of like "adding energy"... the thing that you don't here any difference in a full mix, when the process is gain matched shows that again. it's maybe absolutely not necessary, just pull the volume up by 1 db on that track... you don't need a plugin for that 😉
Thanks for the pointers !!!
Thanks for your great content.
That was awesome to watch - well stated Jordan. The gain matching one will be contentious but I get your point - it’s about having that skill become a reflexive, subconscious action during mixing not a search for a “plugin feature”
Love your channel and I get a lot out of your opinions normally, but 0 for 3 here.
Autogain is important, potentially (and maybe especially?) even on EQ. It's handy feature to stop your ears from tricking you and having autogain as default behavior is almost a no-brainer if you're really trying to hear what your changes mean for the mix.
Oversampling is important when plugins add harmonic content to reduce aliasing, which is absolutely measurable and junks up the mix. To your credit, you mention that it's important for saturation and distortion plugins, but it's not just these that can benefit. Compressors also add harmonics, and I guarantee you use multiple compressors. Yes, engineers likely have used plugins without oversampling before and made classic records, but they've more than likely used expensive analog compression and/or their mix wasn't as great as it could have been due to the aliasing introduced by these plugins. Digital mixes in the 90s and early 2000s were pretty terrible by today's standards.
Plugin doctor serves a very useful purpose for analyzing exactly what a plugin is doing to your sound. Most people don't actually use plugin doctor mid-mix unless they have tons of time on their hands, but it's important for evaluating the tools you use so you can get a better idea of what they're doing and how best to use them.
I agree except for the gain matching.. for example, saturation is about changing color, if you need more energy you actually should add more gain.. its very useful to isolate just the color of the sound so our ears dont get fooled by the loudness war effect. i think *that* case is actually where you hear what you are doing, and not the other way around. now.. for anyone that has been mixing for 10+ years, making the two steps on one CAN be a good shortcut (i do the same, but as concept and for new producers, i think the gain matching still stands). good video as always !!!
edit: i continued the video and saw your clarification about the focus part.. i totally agree then! one can totally make awesome mixes without even paying attention to it once
Absolutely agree. I've never sat down to gain match anything. As you say you do it organically when you do your sounds. The eq is a perfect example. Adjusting the eq to make it SOUND better. The auto gain has just undone the work. Great video. 🤘
Dude you are one of the few mixers on CZcams that knows what they are talking about. Keep it up
To point 1. Brains think LOUDER = BETTER. It's a studied fact. You gain match when you make tonal adjustments so you can hear the REAL impact of your changes without the LOUDER thus BETTER effect. The changes you demonstrated seemed more subtle to you because the LOUDER = BETTER factor was removed. Studious engineers have always known this, and tried to manually compensate when working before technology made this easy for us. If your moves were MEANT to make a guitar louder, you are no longer making tonal moves - you are mixing. If you don't care - that's wonderful. It is an objective truth regardless. I'm sure someone's told you this before, ergo your stated expectation of taking a hit in the comments on this one.
Auto Gain is not someting that a plugin HAS to have, but I will still do it myself. When Mixing, your ears can be your enemy; louder will always sound better... and so auto-gain can help us think twice about the reasons why we make EQ moves... if it needs to be louder...put it louder. if its clashing with something else.. use EQ... but don't use an EQ just because its "sound so much differnt" when in reality you may have thinned it out, but putting it louder made you think it sounded better.
Small correction is that compressors with VERY short attack and/or release times can create aliasing. It's unlikely to be audible... Aliasing is normally only audible in distortion/saturation plugins (someone else also mentioned EQ cramping). Hard disagree on Plugin Doctor-you can only benefit from knowing what your plugins actually do to your audio. I agree that focusing on that gets in the way though.
Good. Another thing I wonder about (and seeing a plug in here reminded me) is why, a couple of decades after people have mostly stopped using analogue gear, do plug ins still have virtual dials/knobs instead of faders? Why are we still emulating analogue equipment visually? Sometimes it's really tricky to grab a small dial on screen and turn it accurately.
analog gear didn't matter for gain matching since you had two hands to change two paramenters at once, so people did it. But plugins limit you to one param at a time. When I learned to gain and level match I started making way better mixing decisions. Once I learned to hear those differences, I learned to tell apart quality differences even with gain differences, but I had to decouple gain from the effect to learn the subtlety that took my game to the next level. And the top comment right now says it even better.
Gain matching is really helpful with compression, particularly early on, but idk why you’d use it on EQ. Oversampling is only useful if you’re getting lots of aliasing which is almost never.
Sensible breakdown of these topics. Auto gain confuses my ears, aliasing needs fixing if audible, and plugindr is useful when you have an engineer hat on. Thankfully you not only approach these topics with sense and intellect, you also provide different contexts for when these things might matter. And, anecdotal, i just spend two days measuring and adjusting my da-ad loopback with plugindr to minimize noisefloor and reduce thd-n before adding outboard analog gear in the loop. With I had a proper oscilloscope though :) Thanks again, and I’m looking forward to more content!
Yes to the Engineer Hat!
Thank you for writing this so I don't have to!
You make a pretty solid case here, particularly if we're talking mixing, as opposed to mastering
Great video. I was freaking out about oversampling literally a couple days ago lol
I really like your mentality about mixing and music. Spend more time mixing and listening instead of chasing every rule/trend there is out there
Going to have to disagree with you on oversampling. Especially if you’re recording in 44.1, high frequency content with harmonic content, especially in synths, there is a 100% difference in sound. Will it make or break your mix, of course not, but for those instances that need it, it’s important.
I don’t think companies like FabFilter and Slate would put oversampling in their plugins if it wasn’t needed. They don’t market it as a selling point or gimmick like your presenting either.
To be fair, there’s also a limit to how much you can oversample before it’s just not necessary. You don’t need 16x oversampling, but having 2x and 4x is great to have.
@ 7:41, the defensive take on this is not a good look my dude.
I totally agree! Awesome vídeo
when it comes to oversampling, the only plugin I notice a change in sound with is Soothe 2. For me, the 1x will give a bit of hair to anything it's processing and the 4x pulls back on that a bit. It's nice having the option to choose how much of that distortion i want introduced
Regarding oversampling
I’ve recently stopped using it on ozone during mastering and it has saved my computer from freezing
I appreciate your input
Thanks again for sharing such awesome content! You're the real deal Jordan (I have watched hundreds of videos out there for years, but yours are just simple and straight to the point every time). I have learned so much from you and thanks to your videos, my mix quality and confidence level have gone through the roof. Plugin doctor does sound like a cash grab.. Total nonsense to make such a plugin. Bump the haters and keep doing what you're doing. Cheers!
I really enjoyed this video until I put it through plugin doctor. All jokes aside, awesome vid. I recently picked up your Clipper plugin and I love it, super simple and effective. Do you generally put your clipper at the beginning or the end of a channel chain when trying to achieve punch and perceived loudness on a snare for example, wondering what works best for you, before or after all the processing. Thanks!
Are you really going to claim that compression doesnt produce harmonics? Compression is nonlinear and of COURSE produces harmonics. Oversampling makes a big difference over the scope of an entire mix. Aliasing is real and may or may not be what you want- but it probably wont be. The type of oversampling is very important though, and minimum phase filters can skew phase in the high end, it needs to be well implemented.
Auto gain makes sense to me on Saturation, I dont need to deal with crazy volume spikes just because I want some color. Even just a bit of autogain can help with dialing in saturation.
Autogain on EQ makes no sense, but can be helpful when cutting- specifically.
Yeap! Your mixes are great, but they are great because you are well experienced and your ears are that good so you can hear immediately what tool you should use, even without looking at plug-in interface. You just professional that know how to make world class records. And most of us, the subscribers, we believe everything and everyone if they say "this is so great plugin, listen how good is it. And you should use gain matching (or wherever tool) that made my sound so good"
I feel like gain matching is for people that balance their mix before dialing in sounds. IE they want more mids in their guitar because it’s not sitting correctly in the mix but don’t necessarily want to make them louder. Whereas I believe you tend to get your tones dialed in at the source because you have a good enough ear to know exactly what it should sound like going in.
Disagree on oversampling in sample based instruments or any synth type processing. As soon as you go over 20khz at 44.1khz you mirror back and it's really audible. You play a sample at root pitch sampled at 44,1khz...as soon as you transpose it up a note you will get aliasing. running at 88khz gives you an extra octave.
I like and agree with the spirit of this video, while disagreeing some about the educational value of hearing things without gain boosts. If someone is learning, taking the extra time to gain match IS leaving the mixing headspace. It is entering the ear training headspace. It is not uncomming to grab some saturation or EQ and desire the gain changes that are coming along with them, or worrying less about matching and more about the mix, but hearing what things sound like without volume changes is very informative. The more comfortable you get, the less it matters. To me, this video is basically saying "Stop obsessing over small details, just keep your perspective and follow your ear to a good mix".
Oversampling on the neural dsp plugins is absolutely audible and makes a clear difference. The top end opens waaaayyy up with it on. Pretty much in agreement with everything in this video though 🤜🤛
Compression can add extra harmonic content. Sometimes that's part of the point. BUT I agree with you that worrying about oversampling is silly. I think the way people use Plugin Doctor these days is also silly. Where I've found tools like that or another analyzer useful are when I'm trying to understand what something is doing in case I'm out on a gig where I don't have that thing and I'm trying to recreate it in some fashion. For example, that was how I learned how wide Pultec curves actually are and how gentle a Neve shelf is. It's never about judging how "good" something is, though. My ears do that.
"To be honest, I question whether I'm actually hearing any difference at all." aka it's all in YOUR ears.
That's actually BRAVE thing to say for someone who has worked a long time in the industry. A lot of people out there in the popular "forums" loooove to pontificate on stuff, always in the threads posting about plugins hahaha I dont even mix/produce music in your genre but... SUBBED! Refreshing sh*t, sir!
Jordan is one of my favorite mix engineers on the YTs
Might just be an opinion of an amateur who only does rudimentary mixing on his mediocre song fragments, but my impression is that every move that significantly changes a sound characteristic (eq, saturation/distortion, heavy compression, ...) requires manual level adjustments anyway. I often find that the reason that I set the levels in the first place is a specific element of the sound (e.g. frequency ranges or transients). While the idea of auto-gain is nice, It seems hard to find a one-size-fits-all solution.
Interesting perspective on gaining. It's a matter of preference if you want the tweak to add overall volume as well as tonal change. Can be dangerous as additive volume hits you as better, but also, If you want the guitars in this case to cut better in a specific range, doing it in 2 steps is inefficient and less direct.
I feel like the gain matching thing comes from people boosting a bunch with eq and then thinking it's better, but it's just louder.
1. Gain Match: if top-down mixing was ur approach to mixing, you'd probably change your mind. I think it depends on the mixing style, no right or wrong here, the music will inform me of what to do.
2. Oversample: 100% agree
3. Plugin Doctor: if we see video footage of animals we eat, we will be less inclined to eat that meat, because the video has the capacity to desensitize us from the enjoyment of the meal. The same thing with plugins, if we find out that the 'background processes' are not having good attention, we wont trust the plugin even if it sounds ok, i don't think its a matter of mixing with ur eyes, its about trust...
I really like you, you are honest. I ran across your video last week and have been watching them. I started mixing in 1992 with a pair of ns10's and thought I needed something more expensive. I wrong was I.Same thing goes with the thousands of dollars I spent on plugins.And the hardware units I spent so much on like Manley,Universal audio, Warm audio, JoeMeek,Vintake,Presonus,and the list goes on. I wish I had ran across you 20 years ago. Before I spent all that money. If you got good musicians then your mix is not that hard. And you don't need all the plugins that someone on CZcams is bragging about, or all the hardware. You can't polish a turd with all that equipment. Thanks for your videos I enjoy watching them.
You make some good pointes. My dad, who was deep into electronics and the like, got me to comparing specs when buying the next greatest piece of gear. It took me years to give that up and just use my ears to decide. There is a place for specs, especially if you know what to do with them, but I would buy a power amp rated at a certain wattage, and find out later they were boasting RMS specs. It's good to do your homework, but don't let it make you pass your life bye. before you get a chance to do what you really want.
bend a high note on guitar using an overdriven/fuzz/distortion tone and you'll absolutely hear a difference between no oversampling, 2x, probably 4x, and maybe 8x - beyond that probably not (and I agree that it's not something to obsess about for plugins that aren't doing a lot of nonlinear processing)
Just my 2 cents - gain matching is essential in compression and saturation. I can and I will gain match by hand if there’s no auto feature, but it’s nice to have, especially if there are gain-dependent plugins down the line (saturation before compression, for example). Oversampling is, again, essential in saturation and compression. You said compression doesn’t add harmonics, and that’s just objectively wrong. People love the subtle saturation analog gear adds - and analog distortion will never alias. I agree it’s not *always* needed, but it may stop me from using a saturator or compressor on high-frequency rich content.
Plugin doctor is very useful BEFORE mixing. It can help you readily find the strengths and weaknesses of a plugin so you don’t have to worry about this kind of stuff while mixing.
I’ll agree that people tend to get caught on these things way too much, but they are all very useful imo
Haha, I guess I should have waited to look/listen til the end but, I don't agree with the Plugin Doctor ref either. That is a tool that is good to see what a plugin is and ain't doing. I use it when beta testing plugins or seeing what an EQ or saturator plugin is doing etc. I agree that people shouldn't use it to make choices if a plugin is great or not but, if a plugin designer says that their plugin has harmonics in their plugin well now you're able to keep them honest to see if it really does. I think its fair. I literally had a plugin designer tell me that an old hardware unit didn't have saturation/harmonics from the 50s/60s. I couldn't believe they would even say that but a month later, another plugin designer came out with the same type of plugin from the same type of hardware and they explained why the hardware unit not only had harmonics but saturation etc. Some people will lie straight out and this is a great way to keep everyone honest! Again, just my opinion. Sorry for the rants as you came across my feed for CZcams. Good Luck!!!
Oversampling matters a whole lot more in mastering. But in mixing you are totally right, it doesn't matter.
Your a breath of fresh air buddy
i grew up with tape, we always ran hot, get away from the noise floor and it gave you that compression. I have loved the new computer stuff. In the box. Recording is awesome,. Its all piss easy these days. How can anybody complain. ? I used to edit my 2 track master on a block with a razor blade. I had a washing line , with all my segments. ,labelling all the hanging tape, that was fun!!, not. So easy recording these days. Your top Jordan, love the honesty and lack of ego. If you want to be good at recording, it takes hard work, always has done.
Hey, good stuff. I would think compression could cause aliasing, no ? If you hard compress something, that could be equivalent to a hard limiter, which causes distortion. Another way to look at it is, the compressor's output signal is, in effect, the input signal multiplied with a gain-reduction signal. In signal theory, multiplication in the time-domain is equivalent to convolution in the frequency domain, where convolution does, indeed, spread the signal in frequency, creating new spectral content. Now, the gain-reduction signal is correlated with the input signal, so the degree to which spreading occurs is not something I have ever considered. I would hope these distortion plug-ins up-sample internally, prior to non-linear processing, before decimation back down to the native sample rate of the track, while removing all of the filter delay used for the rate-change processing. You make your own plug-ins ? Do you hire signal processing engineers ?
I don’t use plugin doctor in a mix but I use it to understand what a plugin is doing which helps when mixing
the oversampling switch on the nameless plugin makes a small but clear difference on my machine. It sounds better on the High position to me; I always leave it on high, I thought the switch was only there for CPU performance. Sure it sounds fine on low, but if I can hear a difference then I have to decide which one sounds better and I'm going to use that. If I remember correctly, the Gojira plugin doesn't have the switch... I never thought or worried about it, I just assumed the "best" switch value was baked into the plugin and never thought about it again.
bro you’re the goat fr
Hey Jordan, thanks for this very insightful video! Btw, what’s the name of that song you used for this example in the vid?
I disagree with several things, but there's one specific use case I wanted to adress because I havent seen anyone talk about it.
I mix top down. Gain matching is valuable to me becuse I don't want my signal to hit the mix bus compressor harder causing it to compress more. I set the compressor at certain levels for a reason. What I don't want is continuously upping the gain with several different moves and ending with a more compressed mix. I might want to give a specific track more perceived loudness so it stands out better without the entirety of the mix getting overcompressed.
And if I want to give something more actual loudness, not just perceived loudness, why would I reach for something like EQ? That's what the fader is for.
I guess with gain matching its a matter of, after processing: is my sound now too loud for it's given role, and should I reign it in with a bit less output gain, not even level matching, just putting it back where it sits right. That's usually my process if needed
Bravo..very good detail. But for some reason, I like when gainstaging in Fabfilter while eqing the guitars..
_ Also about oversampling...maybe your are mixing in higher sample rate and that's why you don't listen differences. For me in 44.1 / 48 khz oversampling gives me clearer results.
Really in what sample rate are you tracking / mixing?
Everyone is missed understanding about gain staging, he doesn't mean louder is better, you still have to set your faders after you boosted the signal.