Nobody Will Win The Hollywood Strike
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2023
- With the actors and writers on strike, things are tense! Why are they on strike! Will they ever not be on strike? What if they aren’t on strike? Why doesn’t Disney do something about it! Let’s find out!
Hollywood!
Bob Iger!
It’s all here!
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“The entire streaming game was built in a House of Cards” is a genius line whether you intended it or not
Right? Literally and figuratively, the first grand show from the first grand streaming service
That entire show was also a house of cards thanks to Kev Spacey
Its like the fall of the Roman Empire, it took awhile for it happen, but eventually the effects accumulated over time and asserted themselves.
I'm pretty sure that if the fall of streaming took as long as the fall of Rome the companies would be EXTREMELY happy with that
He should have edited in a purple kevin spacey when he said it.
I've always thought it was strange that hollywood would try to replace writers with AI. I mean, apparently writers are barely taking home any money. The logical option would be to replace those CEOs with AIs. Much more cost efficient in terms of money saved per person replaced.
I'm pretty sure Disney could replace Bob Igor with a PlayStation and the result would be an improvement. 🤖
AI isn't designed to be useless.
I would replace the CEOs with a magic 8 ball and it will be an improvement
You can write a movie script in bum****nowhere. When Hollywood/CA pushed lockdowns God forbid they also dropped cocaine board meetings for pitches
Breaking News CEO’s decide not to replace themselves. It’s awful, but not strange.
Genuinely, I'd prefer it if they'd just give up and give the real figures for streaming. If it's really as untenable as it seems to be for most streaming platforms, they should die. They should license out to streaming services that can be profitable.
In Disney's case, I'm willing to believe it's more about capture than profit. If Disney doesn't stream their shows, and other services aren't willing to accept exorbitant licensing fees, then their stuff simply isn't streamed. If it isn't streamed, people will pirate or illegally stream it themselves. Which isn't a good look for the company either. They vastly overvalue their own work because they dump inconceivable amounts of money into blockbusters that just flop.
Im assuming that if they did reveal the true figures for streaming services they might scare the investors with underperforming insanly high budget shows/movies.
I find baffling how investors don't know the real numbers of streaming viewership. I know most investors are rich old men that don't understand technology and easily fall for buzzwords, but if I would be giving my money to a company expecting a return later, you bet I would want to see *what* I'm actually investing on.
These streaming shows also devalue the brand of Disney, affecting their merchandise and parks businesses. The more shows and movies you pump about an IP, you remove that magical aura around it. There's a real why classic Disney movies were called "the untouchables" internally for decades and why so many execs were against releasing them on home video and TV. A lot of Marvel and Star Wars toys are left dusting on stores because no one buys them, not even collectors.
I suspect they've been lying for a long time if they do reveal it they'll get sued into the dirt.
Personally I think they need to put everything back on Netflix again, but that's just me.
@@SmegmaGoblin Yeah, this is the big thing that's kind of hanging in the air that would make it lose/lose for both sides--that if the actual figures are released, it's going to show that the figures aren't as big as everyone expects. That not only demoralizes the investors, it ALSO makes it harder for the actors and writers to claim that their residuals are too low, because the residuals are actually being calculated from those deflated figures.
As someone who graduated from film school during the last writers strike, I can assure you it will be 'content-creators' and video game devs who will win. 2008 was when CZcams REALLY took off as no new content was being produced anywhere else, so I imagine it might be there and TikTok or whatever. People need entertainment and they will find it elsewhere if they are forced to.
No, Tiktok will not win. CZcams FOREVER!
Now imagine if some of those striking writers won't get re-hired and then join TikTok channels' teams. If they would make more money then Hollywood will be outcompeted.
Wasn't 2008 the year of Iron Man 1 and Batman Dark Knight?
Gaming is getting a strike soon too.
@@kavkySo? Those only consisted of a few writers and creators.
Execs: boost numbers to please investors
Actors & Writers: use boosted numbers to demand more money for their work
Execs: don't want to reveal the actual numbers for fear of pissing off all three parties.
Ah the classic "fuck around and find out".
If the little scraps of residuals the writers and actors get from streaming platforms are anything to go by, this goes to show how very few people actually watch content on streaming platforms from beginning to end.
@@bluestar5812 Except the little scraps is effectivly zero so they are not something to fgo by, otherwise the demands would be for more publishing on cable or DvDs
Both the executives and the writers/actors all deserve to be broke living on the streets
@@redbullsauberpetronas Well that is very much the case for the Writers and Actors, why do you think they are striking
@@ConnorLonergan Ask SAG. They turned down an 11k per writer deal because they didn't get their ludicrous writer's room demand.
So the worst case scenario is the death of Hollywood?
I see this as an absolute win.
I don't think it would happen how you imagine. Real assets don't cease to exist when an industry collapses, they just tank in value... then get bought up & consolidated.
The people at the top generally land well on their feet when a bubble pops (some exceptions, but generally), its the people just doing their job that lose. Suddenly there's all these people with skills that are no longer in demand, all situated in a place with some of the highest cost of living in the world, which already has an existing homelessness problem.
And this is assuming the larger US economy isn't significantly affected.
Edit: As someone who usually gets into arguments with left leaning people, some of these replies read pretty funny.
@@prw56thank God they live in homeless camp cities they voted for. They can finally reap what they sowed if they're that hard up for money
@@prw56 Well said, even during the 2008 crash, the top brass of the banks still got out with millions in bonus/bailout, whilst the lower strata, the average person, got royally fucked over
@@prw56consolidated into a bunch of companies we don't watch or care about? That's winning. Let it burn
@ZMCFERON There's no reason to be happy that sound crews, cameramen, set construction workers, vfx artists, stage hands or any other sort of underpaid media production staff will lose their job or even career. That's just cruelty for cruelty's sake
Steaming was the most short-sided decision from executives of all time. They looked at netflix and tried to replicate it with zero understanding of what you need to actually become profitable.
we dont even know if netflix is actually still doing well considering they could also fake their numbers
@@MrTorterra10 They've been proitable in the billions for years, that's not something you can easily fake. I mean enron was able to cook the books, it can be done, but I think they're fine.
@@kingofhearts3185Not true, actually. Netflix benefitted from being valued like a tech stock, not "old media", so their *valuation* has been super-high for years. Actual profit took a long time to achieve in the streaming era, and has been very modest, except during the pandemic.
True, but I don't think profit was actually the goal. 1- Netflix is treated by Wall St as Big Tech, with a stock multiplier to match. Media companies could 5X their valuation just by getting the St to view them through the same lens.
2- In the US, cable/sat companies are actually prohibited from sharing detailed viewing data with content companies (or advertisers). Nielsen gets its cable data the old-fashioned way, through sampling/surveying households.
But with streaming, you have all that data yourself, and there's little/no regulation on how it's used. Even better if you make your own content, and have ppl make profiles, you can get finely-detailed market data on every viewer x show, down to when, where, what, and how they watch. A treasure trove of data to use or sell as you will.
@@MrTorterra10True. But I think netflix will survive while other streaming platforms crash and burn.
Wouldn't the simple solution be to pay residuals whenever a streaming service buys the rights to air a show? If Netflix pays $10 million for the rights to a show the people involved in making that show get X% based on their contract.
i think the fear of these gigantic company is that people will know the data of these streaming service if they decide to do residual
or at least will give someone an ability to approximate data for the streaming service better
a lot stuff now isn't sold like that though, its being made by the same company doing the streaming
that doesnt work if the people who made the show also own the streaming platform, wich is the case with disney plus and amazon something
@@deathpony698 Yeah, it would have worked fine when Netflix was the only big name going, and not producing its own content yet, but now that everyone wants a vertical integration, there's no negotiation to help quantify things.
@@danang5Bruh… You really didn’t read a single word they said?
The funny part of this whole thing is that it was completely avoidable. Had the streaming wars not happened. Had the big three (Netflix, Hulu, and Prime) been left as the central Streaming platforms. Residuals could have been calculated based on licensing rates. For example, Netflix would purchase the license to stream She-Hulk from Marvel, and the residuals would be based on how much Disney/Marvel got paid from that license agreement. Instead, we have dozens of platforms that need huge in-house libraries of content. And because they are bleeding money, they can't afford Residuals.
Also. Fyi. Disney an't loaded right now. They are due for a 21 BILLON kick in the nads thanks to being contractually obligated to buy Hulu. And their stock has reached record lows.
Disney already owns 2/3 of Hulu, with Comcast (NBCU) owning most of the rest. Where'd you see that they are obligated to buy out the minority stake? What they are definitely screwed by is the remaining debt on the Fox acquisition, plus the theme park expansions pre- & post-Covid. The House of Mouse is up to its ears in debt.
@@mandisaw It's part of the contract agreement Comcast and Disney have. One made, I believe, during the fox purchase in which Disney gained majority ownership thanks to buying fox and their 30%.
Part of the contract stipulates that Disney has full control over hulu AND that both parties can force the majority party to buy out the rest. Comcast, Disney's competitor, triggered this and is forcing Disney to buy. Comcast wants to sell for 21 Bil, but at the minimum Disney is forced to buy at 9 bil. And this is set to take place at the end of the year. Both are in talks for the exact price, but its clear that no matter what; Disney has to buy hulu.
Yeah i mean disney is "strapped for cash" in the business sense but paying actors what they demand literally takes like. 1/4 of igers ceo salary. the problem is not the money.
@@NotSpecialDude Got it. Not sure what the play is there - NBCU/Comcast is rumored to maybe make a play for WBD when it's available next year. But I don't think they have the cash, or frankly the know-how, to pull that off & make Warner Bros a success again. Ditching Hulu when it's more profitable & has more eyeballs than their own Peacock seems like a bonehead play, unless I'm missing a piece somewhere...
@@mandisaw I think it was a measure akin to a controlled explosion. The contract stipulated that both parties could force the buyout. Disney was just as able to force Comcast to sell.
And since Disney is a big competitor, Comcast probably cut their losses and chose the most inopportune time for Disney to force the buyout. Currently, Disney doesn't have a billion in liquid cash. Most of is in their stock, which is has reached record lows and shows no sign of slowing. Comcast is gonna have a lot of shares by the end of this.
At this point I'm honestly hoping for Hollywood to collapse. The system is fundamentally broken, and if the only way for it to stay alive is to not pay workers and to mislead the public on viewership numbers, then that system needs to be torn down and replaced by something new.
Billionaires shouldn't exist. Every problem Humanity has is because of them
Hollywood will survive the nuclear holocaust or sun going supernova. It won’t collapse. It will change.
This process is already happening with CZcams etc. Covid accelerated it massively. I personally have not entered a theatre since covid started.
@@exeggcutertimur6091given the implosion on Linus Media Group, I doubt the CZcams game is sustainable.
So long as there's a way to make sure we get less nepo babies creating literally every piece of media I'm all for it.
Shows are also not as profitable today on streaming services. No ad revenue and no licensing fees from cable companies. Disney will probably have to cut a lot of their tv shows in the long run.
No
@@futurestorytellerwhy not?
@@cubirk They are obviously more profitable than ever - and several models demand that poorer users pay them an unreasonable subscription fee while burdening them with ads anyway. Pretending that none of them receive any money from advertisers while Netflix is currently attributing a rise in subscribers (despite an initial loss in viewership, over a supposed password "crackdown") mostly to their ad tier gives off PR astroturf vibes
This is exactly it. With modern technology (streaming, pirating, etc.) and the rise of other forms of entertainment like gaming and CZcams, TV and movies just aren’t as profitable as they used to be
…what? Obviously there’s no ad revenue. They make the money from subscription fees and they are making more money than ever. Imagine being so confidently wrong
Streaming has been ruined over the last decadeish. It used to be a great cheap alternative that had a massive selection, all under one roof. Now there is like 20 streaming service, all their own little walled gardens. Once again piracy is a better choice. No, I don't want to have multiple streaming services.
Exactly the consumer will always win because they can try and balkanize and jack up prices but the consumer will just pirate and find ways around that. They just need to go back to having a few services and not have us pay for 20+ streaming services just so we can watch a few shows that a decade ago would have been on 1.
Streaming has only existed for the last decadeish
@@visceratrocarhe is talking about the streaming wars that began in the last 2 years of the Obama admin due to a "law" (in reality a monopoly plot) called Net-Neutrality which only made the internet less Neutral and big corporations paid the same rate as individuals. Now that complete POS law was removed, the artificially low maintenance cost are no longer there and with the economy as it is, may bring an end to the streaming wars in which Prime, Netflix, and AppleTV become the big three..... what a curses timeline we live in, Jesus please get Ezekiel to blow the horn, I want off this wild ride.
It's time to take to the high seas again boys! We're going pirating!
Hollywood collapse + indie movie resurgence is our only hope for entertainment
There's no reason for so much of the entertainment industry to be in one place anymore with technology being what it is. The only thing keeping it alive at all anymore is going all in on sequels/reboots/etc. The film industry is fucked and it wants to pretend like it's not.
@@SerebiiWarrior It's for community and networking and always has been. It's the same reason tech is still largely in the Bay Area even though everyone is working remote now (or when it moves it still congregates in Austin or Seattle).
That, and now South Korea media and Japan's Anime takeover.
Disney cut The Sound of Freedom loose into the indiesphere and it came back to bite them, mauling Igor's offerings to embarrassing deaths. 😂
It's not even about politics, it's Igor repeating Disney's mistakes from decades ago when they passed on the distribution rights to a little indie movie from Golden Harvest, The Jim Henson Workshop, and Mirage Comics called *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.*
@@eegernadesBut people who DON’T live and work in Japan and Korea should be allowed to pursue jobs and succeed in entertainment too.
Given how bad they had been treated, I can imagine some are willing to strike not because they expect to win, but precisely because they could at least make sure to take their bosses down as well. It's just like the Hong Kong Protests, where the protesters knew they can't win against the CCP but went ahead anyway. "We burn, you burn with us!" was a legitimate slogan among them. In this context, making sure everybody loses may actually be the point.
This is definitely my mentality. If they're forcing me to go homeless, the least I can do is go down fighting.
I can't believe you're actually comparing the HK protests to defend their democracy to this Hollywood strike
They deserved to be treated bad their writing sucks
@@enterthenameyo Just because something isn't perhaps of the same severity to something else doesn't mean that drawing comparison to the bigger scope thing can't be used to better understand the nature of the less smaller scope one.
This sort of strategy is often referred to as the "Samson Option".
I think the Avatar sequels have cost more than The Rings of Power, but the point remains. And the fact that The Rings of Power were always intended to only be on streaming, that really makes the money spent seem like insanity.
Only Amazon could do something like that
And despite everything spent, they couldn’t get the writers to give it their all. And it’s a shame too, the parts covering Numenor, Durin and Elron, & a good bit of the Mordor plot was interesting. The pacing and disjointed narrative was too much for the good bits to overcome.
@@pjmetzen3483 the pacing? Disjointed narrative how? it was great. Easily one of the best shows from last year by far
@@pjmetzen3483they couldn't even get half decent costume designers. It all looked like cheap plastic and 3D prints.
@@TheCatLoverLordif Rings of Power was the best show by far that year, everything else must've been literal dogshit. Even if you like the show, it got completely blown out of the water in terms of quality by House of the Dragon.
I think you touched on a topic concerning media and merchandise that can be expanded upon.
Fundamentally, media is a vehicle for franchises to sell merchandise. More and more, the media that made a franchise is becoming a throw-away medium. In a way, it kind of always has, but we live in an age with a LOT of freely available content. The consumer is more media literate, has higher expectations, and has access to venues of entertainment with a lower bar of entry (youtube is free afterall).
It's a logistical nightmare for businesses. Streaming services need to make as much content as possible, for as cheap as possible. Nobody is going to win this strike. Writers won't receive a livable wage or anything of the like. The starving artist stereotype exists for a reason and will continue to manifest in the industry.
"consumers are more media literate"
*looks in the general direction youtube grifters who make millions on peoples media illiteracy*
I wish that were true :(
@@WizWiteKnight yeaaaaaaaah I know I get the sentiment but... At least teaching media literacy is becoming more commonplace. At the very least, schools near me in America are "discussing" how to teach media literacy. Probably wont happen but that's a whole other topic.
I like to think those of us who have grown up with the internet are more media literate than our grandparents, but that's not something I can really prove.
Writers have a livable wage already. Basically the fight is over MORE money. They should switch their goals to increased wages, not residuals that won't pay anything out.
'source: trust me bro'
nah, I'm going to trust the workers
@@3dApe
except for the part where most media has never had merch
Would unironically be fantastic if the Hollywood monopoly finally died. Let some fresh air into the room you know?
I have seen a crap ton of #mockbusters already.
Never thought they'd get everything they asked for, as much as they deserve it. Just hope they can get something out of it
They got fired?
That would require self awareness, which most writers and actors lack
Are we living in the same universe? The only thing these writers and actors deserve is to be fired out of a cannon into the sun.
@@ZMCFERON Which undermines their ability to write and act.
@autobotstarscream765 and without AI there was no external pressure to alter behavior
Personally, i think the consolidation of media as an industry in one city has had disastrous impacts and a Hollywood thermonuclear meltdown would get us out of this malaise of creativity phobia. It's far too homogenized and centralized to actually evolve and survive as an industry.
No the consolation is what makes it so productive, industries in general get way more efficiency when they are close together due to agglomeration effects. If your a good writer you can shop your skills to a dozen different places until you find the best fit, if you hate your job you can change jobs with same industry without moving. Same reason tech companies just do better when based in Silicon Valley. If Hollywood spread across the country we would get fewer worse shows for more money
@@calebweldon8102yeah, sure, once upon a time, but now? With the MARVEL that is the Internet? No, get those studios out of Cali and scatter them 'cross the states!
If underpaying workers is essential to the process of film making, I'm fine living in a world without films.
I hear that!
As an underpaid worker with higher goals to pursue, that would be the end of me and many many more
But then again, the US is not the world, so unless the whole world shuts down their own movie industries, that won’t happen
"Why does my avocado toast cost $30?"
The writers suck they don't deserve pay to begin with
Personally here waiting for the _robot_ strike
Animatrix Million Machine March moment (O -o)
@@0neSillyG00sethat poor robot girl that got her face smashed in :(
I can't wait for @@0neSillyG00se to genetically alter their arms to have sentience!
You’ll have to wait until the year 3000 for that at least!
@@dosdoomguy2285 >:)
This was the best SD ComiCon in nearly a quarter of a century because it wasn't drowned in ads and booths for shitty television shows.
I've never heard a single person in real life talk about ANY of these shows. Maybe it's just that that part of tv culture died out, but I still hear people talk about movies.
The argument about disney plus losing money assumes that residuals are paid from profits, when they should be paid from revenue. The same way residuals on a show being syndicated are not dependent on whether the studio is currently in the green.
Making Disney plus even more of money sink still doesn’t help
That would basically force them to cut back or shutdown everything. It would be good for whoever's left, but a lot of people would be left in the dust. Not a bad thing to me, but worth considering the fallout.
Exactly. These streaming companies have been getting away with this for too long.
You know, while the collapse of the film industry would have a ripple effect on the economy that goes far beyond Hollywood, and a lot of people would end up losing their jobs - I kind of want it to happen. Hopefully in a way that as few working people (note: I do not count CEOs and executives as “working people” in this) lose their jobs.
The whole industry has been riding off the enormous success of the 1980s-early 2010s period and they’re running out of the system to prop things up.
It won’t be the end of movies. Plenty of people will continue to make films, be it on CZcams or for the smaller streaming services. Heck, it may actually force people to watch foreign films and expand their world view a bit… and perhaps learn how to read at a speed beyond 5th grade level.
Plus, we need sanitation workers. ESPECIALLY in LA. Surely if you can use a computer, you can pick used heroin needles with a grabby claw and put them in a plastic container.
Lol what
Shout out to this video for predicting one thing and then immidately getting it wrong.
And what was that?
"this is all about money" is the perfect explanation, a timeless classic for Hollywood
Yeah because no one else lives in a mint based society but them. Thank goodness we don’t need money.
Oh wait
Since when? It's either pushing govt propaganda (pre 1930), then commie bulls&>/, then hippie bulls&>/, now progressive bulls&>/
@@ZMCFERON since the inception of Hollywood in the motion picture business. They settled down there because they were evading paying for Edison's movie patents.
4 comments 2 visible
@@trajanfidelis1532 yea it's getting insane these days with hidden comments
The simplest answer to this problem would also seem to be one of the least likely to happen. Federal regulation. Streaming services could be compulsed into having all of their streaming numbers be available to the public domain in a similar way that Nielsen measures tv ratings.
No, a business solution is actually warranted here. Investors aren't being misled, the top-line numbers are all being reported, it's just not clear how that translates into subscriber & viewer numbers. Nielsen worked because it provided mutual trust between advertisers & networks. They didn't just take self-reported data, they ran their own data-collection - "Nielsen families" - so everyone could trust their results.
Ironically, now that a lot of streamers are going ad-supported/ad-tier, they're reporting to Nielsen again. So maybe we're just gonna come full circle.
i believe stock price of many of the streaming giant would tank hard if that were to happen, it's not a secret that all of them are bleeding money
Stop giving power to the nanny state.
@@trajanfidelis1532Why? Nanny state wouldn't be necessary if the companies in question would just give out that data. Why would they? It makes little monetary sense to give consumers that data lol.
Which would burst the bubble and lead to even less money for writers and actors.
Now just imagine if we had the real numbers for games that release on gamepass lmao
*Stands up in the middle of the sitting crowd*
"I don't care if Hollywood writers make less."
A lot of the regulation and barrier to entry makes it hard to get into writing or behind the scenes work in movies.
California insider CZcams channel interviewed a guy who worked on movie sets I really recommend to watch that video... It made me think about making movies completely different. He talks about it from financial and also movie making standpoints and also as both the Union standpoint and the standpoint of the shooting locations
What is the vid called? Can you summarize
Which video is it?
Regulations apply to the crew, the technical aspects. But it's no harder to become an electrician for TV/movies as it is for residential/commercial. As for the folks like actors, writers, directors, etc, the problem is supply vs demand, plus networking.
Most people hire who they know, and have worked well with before. Your reputation is everything, and people can be wonderful, or wonderfully petty. Talent is a minimum qualification, passion is commonplace, and pissing off the wrong person on the wrong job (even if you were in the right) can potentially screw your entire career. It's a tough business, even before we talk about the money.
Welp, WGA won their end of the war. Let's see what happens next.
As an artist, I used to be worried that my job will be taken by AI. But as time goes on, I've come to realise 8ts not happening.
AI is great at one thing: aggregating. Its can create a pretty, average image. If you need to mass produce prints or character drawings, ai is great. But it doesnt create anything truly unique (yet). Even now, we are finding that letting one artist take the time to create something with *deliberate* choices is a better than having an AI produce 20 images in 5 minutes. It's difficultto put in words.
However, if there is a need for repetitive, aggregate work where each single thing does not need to be very good, AI appears to be working great. Like for random images that appear on social media or scrolling banners or things like that. AI is the perfect filler. Ironically, it does a job that absolutely no one likes to do, because no one likes to put time and effort into something that will ultimately not matter much.
Yup. Pretty much most of what I've been saying, but even then, that only really applies to the more watered down uses of it like Midjourney. There is a lot of inspired work you can do with it. Whether that is to get a starting reference image (I like to do this for 3d modeling), or to bit by bit use AI as the brush through inpainting tools and hundreds of generations.
AI writing is pretty mid, and I don't think that will be changing any time soon, however it's useful in bouncing ideas, spell checking, doing research, or even using it as a second pair of eyes. To me, I want to treat AI as a second brain, offloading all the BS I don't wanna mess with.
I like the line that the podcast trashfuture uses: if your job can be replaced by an AI, you are already an AI
I think the core issue here is that the vast majority of artists are doing things that are repeatable by AI to get paid. Very few are every going to make a living doing whatever unique thing they like.
So the vast majority of artists are basically getting canned. Joe and Jane at your local streets frankly don’t care about your uniqueness. They’ll consume whatever.
True, I agree. But then that was inevitable. When i graduated form design school i found that most design jobs were largely just jobs where you mass produce repeatable social media content. But; due to this very thing, the bar for entry is low, you can be easily replaced and pay was sh1t. Even then, I saw it was a dying industry. Already my job consisted of mostly copy pasting pictures and free assets from the internet and simply rearranging them.
I agree with your assessment but it was already an inevitability. Even without AI those types of jobs were being replaced. There was software coming out that would let any manager create basic content using design templates and in most jobs, they hired a bunch of freshers, got them to grind for a few years, then fired them and hired the next bunch.
The type of art or design you're talking about was already kn it's way out and not highly valued. Of course, it depends on country and I'm not saying I have any idea how to fix it on a broad scale. I'm just talking about personal experience and what I plan to do moving ahead.
For what its worth, i ended up leaving design and joining an animation studio as a concept artist. There was still a demand for uniqueness there. I guess the world is changing rapidly and we just have to adapt. Many generations before us, who lives during such times of upheaval, have done so.
We are just unlucky enough to be living during this time. I'm still gonna continue making art and finding a way to monetize it. Others will do the same, or find something new. Unless government regulation stops AI from rampantly stealing our work (and it may just happen it seems), we have little choice. And you're wrong about one thing: whilebthe average consumer may not care, there ARE still people who value creativity and uniqueness. One needs only to find thema and work with them.
I'm using AI to generate voices when I have to create corporate presentations that need a narrator. Real Voice actors who do this kind of stuff are fast declining, since its boring and poorly paid. I also plan to use AI to help me create some 3D assets and code on some animated stuff I'm working. It basically helps fill the gaps in my own expertise.
I remember I saw a comment by a very old graphic designer who said "I was a designer before computers. I was a designer in the time of computers, and I'll be a designer after AI takes over"
Im gonna be making art forever, come what may. If society collapses I'll become a shaman cave painter. If society becomes hyper advanced I'll make prints for people's apartments. If society becomes religious I'll go make art on temple walls. If people want entertainment, I'll go make that lol.
It is what it is. We go forth or we give up. I'm not in the habit of giving up, and neither should any other artist
The She-Hulk writers got paid more money in residuals than I have in 3 months and they are striking
Well, it just seems like it's an issue the streaming platforms created for themselves and the strikes are just the result of their shortsighted tomfoolery. They should release the actual numbers, pay the actors what they're owed, and rip the bandaid off now. If their numbers are false, then they've been technically lying to their investors for quite a while. Also, the quality of their shows has been going down the toilet due to all of this so they're going to lose no matter what.
There is a more fair viewership metric that is starting to be used by Hollywood. It is basically a count of the total completed views of a show/movie. Basically using this video if I watched 100% of the video that would be 1 view and if I watched half of the video that would be a half of a view. When you add this all these vies up it creates a relatively accurate evaluation of the number of people that are watching a piece of content because the things with low views will get less than the shows with high views. This is the Metric that Nielson is using for their streaming numbers.
They have the data, they just don't want to count fractional views. It would expose how little watch time things like rings of power got.
They don't want an accurate counting system for views because they need to cook the books to attract investors. The Truth would kill their unsustainable business.
maybe tweak it so upper level percentages (nearly 100%) end up counting as 100%, because most people don't stay through credits.
If they change it now, they will likely get sued to oblivion for lying 😂
The consumer will win, they'll stop spending all their money on shitty movies, and stop being told they're bad people for not watching said shitty movies.
Solution?
Reject streaming, return to DVD
💿
return to actual ownership
Return to Blu Ray too.
My personal biggest demand, the one that affects me personally, is staffing minimums for writer's rooms. Multiple times, a showrunner has told me they want to hire me for a show, only to tell me a week later that executives are only paying for 4 people maximum, and they all have to be mid-level or higher. It's almost impossible to break into the industry nowadays, and staffing minimums would make my life
Jesus Christ, that’s horrible. Sorry you have to deal with that
@@PurlaneMauve Thanks for your concern. It's nice to know some people sympathize with us while these comment sections are just full of people wishing unemployment and homelessness for me and my peers.
Perhaps it’s because writing rooms are generally kinda shit
Having all writing rooms require more than 4 writers would most likely result in a shitload of disjointed, unusable scripts, trying to explore many writers’ visions, and not having the space to flesh out any of them
If you have 2 genius writers and you throw them into a crowded writer's room with 8 mediocre writers and give them the same pay and benefits you end up with 10 mediocre writers.
@@D_Dupa You genuinely don't know how rooms work, then.
To this day Rings of Power appears first between my list of series to watch even if it says it's not listed. Now it makes a lot of sense why they put it there for me to click by mistake.
I think you should have gone more indepth on what you meant that "movies are over". You gave the info on why they dont want to show the numbers but you seemed to just end it without the full breakdown. What do you mean Hollywood is over? Does that mean they have to lower pay to actors? They can't afford to make big CGI effects? I don't understand what you meant to end it on?
Agreed. My best guess is that it significantly lowers the amount of money invested in Hollywood and makes the profession a MUCH less lucrative profession.
I'd say it won't be even a 20th as severe as what's happened to entertainment made outside of the big 9 states. Trust me, I'm in one of the below 9 & it is horrifying how California has been trying to obliterate any of our local content. They've already destroyed at least 80% of local public access programs for Pete's sake!
investors go away, domino happens
Met Christopher Eccleston at a convention today. I'm pretty sure you could end the strike by putting him in a room with a bunch of executives. Now granted he would be the only one left alive but still.
Dude tore into Margaret Thatcher during the Q&A lmao.
who knew the pandemic would cause the rise and downfall of streaming
that's what happens with bubbles.
I've always hate autoplay, I turned it off on CZcams and wish I can turn it off for other streaming stuff. I don't want sudden noise 😫
Except there are other ways to measure the success of streaming services. For example, Netflix alone accounts for about 10% of global internet downstream traffic. It would not be possible for their numbers to be that bad if they account for so much of the entire world's internet traffic.
And these companies could be hiding their viewership numbers for the opposite reason. If their numbers are much higher than reported, they'd have to pay the writers and actors a lot more.
Have you seen the quality of the content lately? No way is anything being hidden because the shows are too popular.
They make more money off investment from good numbers, then they lose money off of actors and writers seeing good numbers and getting raises. They have zero reason to deflate numbers.
@@metalmythology6282 They make money off investments from subscriber numbers. It doesn't matter if no one watches the shows as long as subscription numbers are high. It's like how gyms don't care if their members don't go to the gyms as long as they continue paying for the membership. If anything, they like it when members don't go since it saves them maintenance costs.
Well the question isn't "Is Netflix doing well", it's "is the content specifically by individual show doing well". That's the one that would really affect the writers.
That's a big if.
u should make another video abt this, kind of interested to see if ur opinion has changed since the strikes have ended
In the end, everything is gonna have to loop back around to a cable style system in order to sustain itself.
So realistically it comes down to three situations.
1. The guilds inevitably have/forced to go back to work to prevent an economic collapse. (I would honestly not put it past this country to either use exeuctive or miltary power to force an end to the strike)
2. The companies give a tiny flat residual per show proportional to how long it's on a streaming site. Leading to probably hundreds, to thousands of shows/movies being dropped across the market and streaming collapses.
3. Hollywood collapses.
The consumer wins. They cant throw their crap at us, the crap writers or the crap studios.
The strike won't likely help either direct side but it might help the gaming faction since the games industry can provide better metrics for what the strikers are asking.
The first feature I built was a western back in 1987. I had a blast. I got to know the producer. One or two other films I built for in the 80's I also knew the shows (1) producer (movies are called 'shoes' not to be confused with TV shows)
Whatever I just streamed had 14 producers up front, and they slipped one more in just before the directors credit. Producer Critters get paid a lot and they get "points" on the sale of the product which rare actors used to get back in the day...
Honestly streaming services as they exist today just seem to be a massive scam, I mean it was fun while it lasted but if it can’t make money to the point that it can’t provide for their workers and needs to obfuscate numbers then it shouldn’t exist. Hearing “oh we can’t afford to meet their demands” is so irritating like ok????? Then perish.
disney is actually being sued for lying to investors over this situation. so eventuality at least Disney's numbers will come out
The customer alway wins when a stagnant industry collapses and a reset is forced.
This video aged pretty badly
Mhmm, considering they fucking WON BABY, WOOOOOO!!!!!! WGA WON LET'S GO HOOH HOOH HOOH THIS ONE'S FER THE BOYS WAYYYYOOOHHHHH!!!!!!!!
I don't watch movies anymore, so it will never effect me.
Whilst it could be bad the complete collapse of Hollywood would be very interesting to watch. It would also give other sectors of the entertainment industry a chance to make a name for themselves.
CA would lose a lot of money it gets from Hollywood events and tourism. In turn the states CA gives money to (mostly in the south) will also suffer. It wouldn't necessarily harm CA itself as it's agriculture more than makes up for the current loss of Hollywood related revenue. But you can bet the state of CA would give far less money to other states if Hollywood collapses completely.
Let Hollywood burn
@@visceratrocar Good, about time too
@@visceratrocarthey wouldn't even loose the tourism. You go visit Hollywood walk of fame for their movies before the 2000s, not what they make now.
@@tonnentonie2767
Even the 2000s-early 2010s have their nostalgia too.
This video ignores that the writers were offered a deal for a 13% in contract minimums, an increase in residuals, and releasing screaming numbers to the union. They were given everything they wanted except for AI protections and oversized writers rooms and they should've get both of those. If a writer's room only needs a handful of people there's no reason to have 17 writers (looking at you She Hulk). As for AI, welcome to the modern world. The writers (and everyone supporting them) don't care (or actively cheer it on) when it's blue collar workers losing jobs but now that it's happening to white collar workers it's a problem.
The whole AI thing is being fought because Disney and the studios are being scummy about it. They’re not just using AI, they’re scanning background actors and voice actors without their permission and trying to use their likeness indefinitely and only pay them a once time payment of a day’s work. That’s just creepy and scummy.
Great video! This sums up so much of what the strike is about, that I didn't really know. Well done
I just want to say…
Your outro deserves some love in the comments. It’s fun and builds well!
I refuse to believe Rings of Power was a success in any possible measure
I know not a single person who cares about it.
As much as I want writers and actors to get what they desrve, if it's really true that Hollywood is an ever increasing bubble, then maybe it needs to burst and everyone needs to move on. It almost feels like people from old coal towns who flock to politicians falsely promising that they'll bring the industry back, even though times and the world is changing. Perhaps it would be better to not string those people, writers and actors for tiny unwatched media along, it just delays an inevitable acceptance.
Now this is all assuming that this video is right, which it makes logical sense, but idk I would prefer that these companies actually publish their numbers first before definitively saying that the industry should pack it up.
People have no idea just how unequal viewership is. There’s a handful of shows/movies that capture 90% of viewership, and the rest get basically 0
If you see them get the streaming royalties thing they demand, you’ll see 90%+ of Hollywood get poorer.
The few that actually get views are massively underpaid, while the rest are massively overpaid. My popcorn is ready if the day comes 🍿
Entertainment’s always a fluctuating industry. First it was operas, then it was carnival shows, then it was motion pictures, now it’s streaming. They all functionally do the same thing, but the industries that built them come and go.
some of those mickie mouse shots used in the video were nightmare fuel
Hollywood needs to implode so we can get new ideas and companies on the table. it's just all so stale now
I hope it's a way for the writers and the other people to get what they want and great video man :]
I have a Disney + account with ads. I know not everyone wants ads on their streaming shows or in the middle of a movie, but I think ad revenue would be a relatively easy way to calculate at least some part of residuals.
Given the recent price increases for Disney + without ads, it seems like Disney wants their subscribers to use the tier with ads since that tier didn’t get a price hike.
watching the entire entertainment industry collapse under its own weight sounds like so much fun
Unfortunately, the only real way to get past this, it’s mid-roll ads. You could calculate who’s actually watch past the first few commercials. Then calculate what’s actually being watched all the way through based on those.
It’s annoying for the consumer, but it’s the time attested way to also bring down costs for them as well. That’s of course without going into the whole “sell the data to third party” thing. But I, someone who’s totally not a discontinued soda, have no other ideas.
Except people are already conditioned to not see advertising on stream and they Hate Ads on streaming already, so much so that people will pay extra to a streaming service just to get rid of them.
Is it really? The issue here is very likely not a technical one. Most certainly the services have the telemetry to know how long people watched, click through rates, etc. CZcams has those even for non-partnered accounts. They just don't want to release those numbers and there's no obligation to do so.
No because they dont want to show their real Numbers. I mean look at 2018. Everybody and their mother had Netflix and if they liked Anime Crunchyroll. Online Piracy was at a historical Low.
But now that there are a dozen streaming Platforms Piracy is strong again and is currently growing. Midroll adds would drive out even more people. The writers can not win this. They are in a lose - lose situation.
what, you really think putting ads in there is going to result in cheaper streaming for the consumer? hah, as if. it's gonna cost the same, but now with ads.
@@cnlbenmcThe irony about this is that the people who pay less on streaming services and are willing to watch those ads, are less likely to buy the stuff being advertised to them, as they have less money than the people who are willing to pay more to not see those ads. It’s better to advertise to a richer audience that actually has money to spend.
if a kid buys a captain American shield toy which writers deserve those residuals? the writer for Captain America the first avenger, avengers, civil war, infinity or endgame ect.
The argument at 7:00 could also be easily made with networks who only knew the number of TV's broadcasting the show, they also didn't know if only one person, a whole family or a party where watching something.
Being in my late 40s, the strikes prior to this in my lifetime felt very different. Up until now, the general public REALLY cared when Hollywood got back to work. With this strike, I do not anyone in my life who cares one way or the other. The low quality of writing has led to shows and movie series that viewers could take or leave. On top of that, there are SO many more avenues for people to get entertainment from these days. There are far too many other high quality options out there. People don't care to sit and wait for a bunch of people in Hollywood to agree on how much they're all going to be over paid.
This isn’t about celebrities wanting more millions. It’s about thousands of nameless, faceless writers and actors being able to afford to eat.
@@JohnBrown-tw2qi then they are doing a terrible job of making that clear to the public.
@@InfectiousGroovePodcast It doesn’t help that the media conglomerates that they are striking against are also the ones that control mainstream news.
@@JohnBrown-tw2qi I get their argument...and I agree with them. But the power brokers will never lose. The faceless will get a few pennies, and the union bosses and studio execs will get everything else. Bank on it.
@@WarEagleTimeMachine they are literally fighting SPECIFICALLY for higher minimums. Also any contract proposed by the elected “Union Bosses” has to be ratified by a popular vote of their membership.
What you’re describing literally never happens and is only used as a hypothetical talking-point in anti-union media.
The general public is winning by not being subjected to hollywood slop.
The last strike didn't stop the slop, just ask Revenge of the Fallen.
Holy 💩 did you see the part where California wants to pay tax payer money to the striking writers
What do you mean worse? Best case scenario is that all new movies and shows just take along ass break. Spare us of the crap Hollywood has been regurgitating.
Governments should pass laws forcing streaming companies to release streaming numbers
*¹ ⁹ ⁸ ⁴*
Knowing disney itself funds diferent partys campaigns...hard to happen
There is something very poetic about saying the streaming service market is built on a house of cards.
The examples you gave are all products made for and by Disney and Netflix. I think a very crucial part are shows specifically licensed to these streaming platforms. Breaking Bad is always one of the top streamed shows on Netflix. Netflix didn't make that, AMC did. How do we factor residuals on that? Do we take part of the license fee? Do we do a performance based model? A mix of the two sounds more ideal. It's definitely tricky but I really hope the writers and actors win. Maybe then we can get a good show last nite than a couple seasons
The thing with Streaming is you’re supposed to be taking you’re pay up front. The incentives were those big up front pay outs to get you on board and whatever subscribers and views the show gets contributes to the Streaming service and their greater gross total
How do you split a pot of a streaming service when the money made is from how many people are subscribing to the service, it’s not like there is ad revenue and physical media to make money
The writers are on strike, but to the average consumer: who cares? Most of the major content that's been shelved out since, hell, at least 2020 has been hot garbage.
The residuals aren’t just for actors & writers. Sure they get a check in the mail for a few cents (those lucky enough to qualify & receive a check. Few do). But what about the other members of the crew?
As a union editor, I don’t get a residual check in the mail. Any residuals that would go to me instead get put into a group fund & used to pay for our health insurance & pensions. I’m unemployed right now (thanks to no new projects from the strike) but I have health insurance guaranteed until the end of the year because of that fund! And it’s been such a blessing! My last project bombed (since they never advertised it). I likely wouldn’t get an individual residual check but I get health insurance because we’re sharing. I don’t have to worry about paying $400+ a month for cobra or whatever just so the IRS doesn’t punish me for not having health insurance (when I was non union I’d just go without insurance between gigs so I could eat but that’s not allowed now). And I can use that money for other things while I look for work. Like rent! But our residuals are declining just like the actors & writers! So if this isn’t fixed we lose our health insurance. Retirees lose their pensions & are left hanging.
Editors voted to strike for the same reasons but our negotiator overrode us. It’s not just the actors & writers who are hurt by the studios’ “fuzzy math” regarding viewership & popularity. It’s every single person listed on those long lists of credits that you skip past. And we don’t get famous & those big Hollywood paychecks. We’re working class people who will never own a house nor afford to retire unless we marry up. We need the studios to be honest about viewership numbers & give honest residuals! But they keep calling streaming “new media” which is “untested” and say it’s impossible to figure out. I’ve been streaming on Hulu since college in the ‘00’s. It’s time. They know.
If and when y'all are on the picket line, I'm joining you. Much love from the WGA. Y'all deserve so much more.
I love the way they never even mention the other crafts who are suffering from this strike. I love it because those other crafts deserve to suffer and be forgotten. Maybe they can use this time to reflect on the small businesses that were forced to close while they were collecting paychecks to spread fear and pandemic propaganda. This is some good payback for those who called themselves essential workers and didn't have the smallest concern for how their paid participation in the scam affected others.
And just to educate you, the IRS doesn't punish you for not maintaining health insurance. President Trump was able to get rid of that, and when he did, California instituted their own penalty. You pay that on your California return only.
@@mattdorsey2244 Excuse me, but IATSE has been out with us on the picket line since day 1 and we are all trying to support each other. We have mutual aid funds, too.
@@mattdorsey2244 could be. I just know it comes up at tax time.
when a show flopped on cable you stopped watching that channel but kept paying for cable, when a show flops on streaming people tend to cancel that service altogether and resub when the next show you're thinking of watching comes out
using that logic you can say that builders must receive residuals each time building is being used. Or automakers should receive residuals each for each car ride.
Streaming is a very conflicting thing to me, On one hand, the sheer convenience is fantastic and early doors gave a platform for more risky and unique content, on the other hand, the negative consequences it has on the modern-day entertainment industry cannot be understated, the risk-taking early doors has been replaced by safe bets, more and more filler content is being pumped out and it has motivated stuff like these strikes
Essentially speaking, in my opinion, Hollywood cannot survive this new era for much longer without serious change, and most streaming services will be gone in a few years
Hollywood has forgotten how to be profitable and the writers and actors are paying for it, if they are going to come to a fair solution, studios are going to have to figure out how to succeed again
It seems to me that the simplest reasonable solution (at least, from someone with far more sympathy for the unions than the bosses) would be to set aside some fraction of the revenue of the streaming services in question (instead of the profits) and divide that up based on viewership, and calculate viewership roughly similar to how CZcams does (at least a certain fraction of the video with a minimum total amount of time). The specific details are far outside of my area of expertise, but this seems like a workable rough outline to me. It would guarantee workers positive and significant residuals, while also incentivizing them to create quality product similarly to using profit (although it wouldn't incentivize responsible use of budget, but I'd imagine that management has more control over budget than a writer or actor does). I don't know how likely it is that the unions and bosses would agree on a system along these lines, but it's possible, and it seems workable if they did agree to it.
Overall, show that they already have merchandise planned are often more successful, see japan and there animation and manga sales. In the end, making something just to make it without a clear plan means it will often only be one and done with a handful of episodes no one watches, which had no focus. Series with a creature-writer and a small support staff and indie productions are becoming more common simply because there is more focus and in control of the project.
I actually prefer an outcome where the writers and studios both lose, so cool.
Agreed 😎🤜🤛
The thing is, they've already basically agreed upon the residual part. They're using a third party with the numbers to distribute the payments. The only remaining issue is really the AI with the WGA and SAG-AFTRA. You're a bit behind on this from the last "Final Offer" meeting.
That’s good to know
This is like a reverse 360 deal between the creatives & commerce.
I think everyone is missing the point. In this strike, we're all winners. The industry needs to die. Hopefully to be reborn like a phoenix from the ashes of the old, but either way, the current system has ossified too much to be of creative use. Time to move on.
An issue with the profit formula is a lot of streaming services don't make profit
i honestly hope hollywood collapses. not because i want all those writers and actors to lose jobs, but i want them to get the push they need to start their own companies and do what they actually are passionate about to make real competition to the big hollywood studios. they desperately need to be taken down off their high horses and gouging people for money. especially disney, their animation is basically non existent putting very few movies out, and their live action stuff is atrocious.
This makes no sense. If Hollywood collapses then there is little to no incentive to create quality content. No one would be starting a business 'cause there won't be a market to cater for. This is especially the case when low-budget indie films can cost between $400 000 to $2 million. What you hate about the film industry now would be exacerbated as only the big studios would have the money needed to finance a film.
@@whodatboi2567 what do you mean no incentive, of course there would be incentive. the biggest reason people don't constantly start their own production companies is because the big ones give them easy access to work and so they don't have to deal with those headaches, but with that gone and still wanting to make things in that industry. also hollywood isn't the only avenue they could go through now by any means. so they'd just simply find another route
@@MrHangman56 But with starting their own company they would also have to bear the responsibilities that comes with it meaning more work. And I'd find it doubtful that creatives of all people would venture into that realm when all they really want to is have the time and freedom to create.
There are already smaller production companies that produce their own stuff and licence it out later like A24 and Blumhouse. Blumhouse signed a 10 year deal with universal a while back. There would be more companies like them scattered around rather than the death of the whole industry. It would be smaller, but that might not be a bad thing.
@@whodatboi2567 This is why we should also fear this happening in smaller countries & dependencies such as Iceland, Belgium, Belarus, Greece, & the Maldives. If this is what will happen to the USA's movie & TV industry, imagine the effects of it happening in countries that have almost no one living in by comparison.
Next time McDonald's workers will strike to get residuals after every burger, that is sold.
There's another easy way of working out residuals; the payments from each customer is divided into two amounts (what will go to the streaming company, and what is turned into residuals), now just work out that customers watch times and such and go from there. This ensures that even if a company is fudging the numbers or is unprofitable, they still pay their dues.
Your title had me worried for a second there, but I can agree that's something the strike is going to have to win, accurate numbers for streaming services, and the whole system is going to have to change. Everyone might still be able to win from this, the companies might not be happy that they have to actually produce good stuff, and we may not get some of the riskier innovative television for a while, but in the end I think this is inevitable the house of cards had to collapse at some point, time to build something better.
They all deserve to be broke living on the streets
In a nutshell, studios invested way too much in streaming services which they saw as the new wave of entertainment much like how DVDs replaced VHS tapes. In the space of just a couple years there went from 2 big streaming services (Netflix and Hulu) to like 20. The market became over saturated and now none of them are actually profitable. Heck, even at its peak Netflix wasn’t even very profitable.
Now all the big studios are saddled with toxic assets that they don’t know what to do with. They still need to make back the money they got from investors and and they can’t do that if they just abandon the streaming services. They can’t make more shows if all the writers and actors are on strike. They can’t end the strike without revealing that the streaming services are unprofitable and cause investors to pull out.
On top of this Disney in particular decided to get political and have thus ostracized a large chunk of their core audience. Conservatives and families with young children.
And frankly for all studios movies and shows just are not as good anymore. It’s a competence crisis that nepotism and bribery have spawned over decades.
What about executive producer and manager corruption for example?
Oh no, we'll be deprived of such all time classics as Untitled Franchise Sequel and Unwanted Remake.
profits and productivity of workers have gone up and wages have gone down for EVERY industry, the entire economy over.. and this isnt the only strike happening.. there are big strikes happening all over different sectors of the economy as there should be