What is Strength? | Mark Rippetoe
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2017
- Mark Rippetoe discusses strength during the lecture portion of The Squat Camp held at Wichita Falls Athletic Club in 2017.
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“Strength is the ability to produce force against an external resistance”
The only time I’ve ever needed strength in my life was when my dad was dying of cancer. I had been deadlifting for years and was glad to be able to help him, easily (he was a big guy), out of his wheelchair to his bed.
In the first sentence of your comment I thought you were going to go on to say Mental strength lol.
Amen
That was a plot twist lol. Thought you were going onto say mental strength
Truly amazing story. I hate when people don’t see a reason to work out. Because one day their life will depend on their strength one day
Strength is a texan accent
Yes I know. Since getting stronger, I find my accent more and more texan.
I build walls using 25kg IVANKO plates instead of bricks in order to be functionally strong.
Mellow Bill 😂😂😂
Your walls must be really expensive.
This is why I still listen to Mark after years of finishing Starting Strength. He clearly and plainly articulates facts and truth about strength training that seem to be beyond the knowledge of the general public and INFORM them. Say what you will about him and his personality but the man knows what the fuck he is talking about.
Raymond Murillo he knows whats he talls about when it comes to training athletes.
he knows nothing about stacking bricks all day.
by his logic Brian Shaw should be able to lay bricks all day and still be worlds strongest man and still have an easy day stacking bricks all day..
now anyone that has tried stacking bricks all day knows that is bullshit.
of course the lifter that deadlifts 550 or 600 is stronger than a bricklayer!! no one is arguing that anymore..
because the bricklayer is actually not that strong. (strenght is force bla bla) Mark is right there.
but the bricklayer is endurant thats the key word.
and therefore his program wont work for a bricklayer.
is utilizes and trains two different kinds of muscle fibres. plus its gonna impede his recovery ability alot when he is stacking bricks all day he is gonna be tired the next days after a workout session with heavy barbells and deadlifting
Travis Christoff but he’s talking about strength. Everyone already knows the bricklayer is accustomed to lifting things for the WHOLE day. But what if that bricklayer doubled his deadlift? He doesn’t lose endurance, he doesn’t lose skill to lay bricks, he is stronger than he was before and is now much more efficient. This isn’t a strength vs endurance debate. We understand that working long hours at a time uses different oxygen systems BUT more strength is always a better thing and is why I and many others strive to increase it while we are living.
@@vonkaiser6115 yes he does loose endruance if he doubles his deadlift.
You have two types if muscle fibres. You can have strenght or endurance or a little bit of both.
Never be very good at everything.
If you do the one thing too much, the other is going to start to suffer at some point
@@vonkaiser6115 and yes more strenght will help you. To a certain point.. that point will always come. Both because of recovery and muscle fibres
my name is nobody You don’t know what you are talking about.
i love hearing Rip talk about bosu balls, it's pure comedy gold.
2:55 - 3:05 this is 'the' definition of strength. I cant thank this guy enough, and ive been lifting more than 20 years,
Mark Rippetoe: I love you for the books you wrote the Videos you do and the Podcasts !! You help me out a lot in getting stronger.
I am so happy to foubd my way to powerlifting and you as a Teacher of how to reach my goals !! thats awsome
greetings from Germany :-)
@Mark Rippetoe
Will there be any starting strengh Gyms in Germany too (in the future) ?
I would love to be part of that :-)
En1gm 4
Mark Rippetoe is the Carl Sagan of strength training.
Rip isn't as dogmatic in his belief as Carl
Don’t insult rip like that
Sagan is all bs dude all fake and “theory”. Not a single fact.
*_*laying bricks all day intensifies*_*
Mark is so lucid, damn, I love this man!
3:14 the 200 lbs guy with the 575 deadlift leaves.....
Good. Mark can celebrate with another spare rib.
@3:24 he comes back.
Wait so how many gallons of milk to I need to drink every hour?
just keep ramping it up until you're burping mid-sentence all day long, and then you're good
7
many
The Mr T diet
the answer to everything is fahhhveeee
Okay, sure Ed Coan could squat a thousand pounds. But we don't know how much he could single leg squat on a BOSU ball so can we *really* say he was strong?
Jason
Without that exercise he lacked athleticism. He needs to watch Athlean-x
The probability that you are doing something while balancing on a BOSU ball is a lot higher than that you are just lifting some weights of the ground, so therefore it is more functional.
@Joseph Scott r/woooosh
@Joseph Scott :D
I was baited by the thumbnail!
same
same
is there a video existing with rip moving actually a bar?
@@user-or3tx1kc7b yeah, there's 1 of Rip deadlifting, and 1 of him squatting
Thank you, Sir Mark..
People over complicate physical training. Great video thanks.
Simple & straight!
Rippetoe referring to his own articles as, "ridiculous little articles.." is classic. lol. The man has no time for ridiculous shit, even when its his own.
The tensile strength of your belt is astounding and the compressive strength of the soles of your shoes is otherworldly.
Did he burp at 5:24?
rofl
He burped...paused and thought about it...then proceeded lmao 😂
That was the Rippetoe sniff, followed by a burp. Rip also twiddles his fingers. Watch him long enough and you'll get the trifecta.
Sounded like a crocodile
He was just flexing his diaphragm for those breathing strength gains.
thanks!
Thank you Mr Rippetoe. You, made it very clear. 😐
Good lesson. One note, if I may: I would delve into strength vs endurance. Big difference. The man who can DL 600, may be stronger, but may not have the durance to lift 80 all day laying bricks. IMHO, their is a difference. And I've seen it, and experienced it first hand.
I always watch this video before consumating with my wife.
Hell yeah dude
People keep using the word strength when they're really talking about a whole lot of other stuff. Things like endurance, being used to very specific moves, (muscle memory/efficiency) moving your bodyweight explosively during a prolonged period of time (aerobic endurance, like kickboxing) or being able to jump really far or high (athletisism) as opposed to moving a fuckload of weight (being strong)
And you can argue all day long about which is the most impressive, it's not my concern. But a somewhat overweight person who can squat and deadlift 500 lbs is ALWAYS stronger than a ripped superathletic guy who can only lift a third as much. The smaller superathlete can do a lot of other stuff that the big lifter will never be able to do, but that doesn't make him stronger.
See? Really simple. Cheers
It depends on what you want to make stronger
The bricklayer may have more work capacity, though is not as strong as the 600lb deadlifter
The 600lb deadlifter though will not need the same work capacity as the bricklayer to produce the same work, because for him it will be a lot easier in the first place.
I agree, he's doing less % of his 1RM.
Alexandros Koutoulas its not that simple guys.
the powerlifter will not be able to stand with a bend back all day.
and if he should train for both strenght and endurance at the same time it will not go well and his recovery abilty will be a serious issue.
ive seen it so many times.
the strongest guys (the one that lifts weights) is always the first to give in (unless he competes against old men that doesnt care about health)
now i dont say you should not train at all.
the bricklayer that wants to have a strong healthy back and have an easier day and last many years will still workout a little. its just that the ability to have a strong endurant back that can stack bricks all day does not stack with the more you deadlift..
its really quite simple guys..
you cant both be a power house and a marathon runner at the same time.
this is something so many people dont realise or want to understand and accept.
you cant be both.
oh yeah, what the brick layer really needs is a _strong back_ and will do no good wasting his time with this _deadlifting_ tomfoolery - that _never_ got anyone a strong back
(I have a complete grasp on what I am talking about and am in no way just talking crap out of my ass)
+fsmoura at least you could say you will not become better at at stacking bricks all day by deadlifting. And that is the truth. I tried it myself. I was a bricklayer and now i work at a concretr pre cast factory.
However i think it will suit any bricklayer well if he works out a little.
Doing like bodyweight execises on the floor like flying superman or bridging for example.
If he absolutely wants to deadlift.
He can do that. But he gotta keep in mind that he best not put too much weight on or do too much volume.
Its gonna seriously impede his recovery ability and he is gonna be tired the next day.
And then he is not gonna be as effective at stacking bricks as he should be. Thats the truth.
Anyone who dont understand this is somenone who have never tried manual labour for longer periods of time.
Because the case with manual labour is thats its like working out every single day.
And that puts stress on your bodys recovery ability allready before he has been working out he is allready more tired and impeded than the powerlifter is.
This is something Mark Rippetoe forgets when he talks about how good his program is for anybody.
Now im not saying its a bad program he has invented .
Buts its first of all best for athletes..
And a bricklayer is not an athlete.
The bricklayer does the same thing over and over again for many hours a day many days a year.
And second is the thing about recovery and third.
Does the program work against what he does every day.
Now for example i think anyone can agree that this program is not suited for a marathon runner or a extreme runner even.
A bricklayer is kind of that in a sense.
He has stamina in his back muscles.
Not so much strenght.
And strenght and stamina is twi different things.
It utilizes two different kinds of muscle fibres.
Everybody knows that.
Even Mark Rippetoe.
He just seems ro forget that in this case.
But thats because he really doesnt know anything about working as a bricklayer and what it demands on your body and recovery ability and what kinds of muscles it uses.
Its because he has never tried to stack bricks all day.
Now a bricklayer could follow Mark Rippetoes program to have a strong body but he best not overdo it.
And he is definately not gonna be a better bricklayer the more he deadlifts! And thats a guarantee!
Its only gonna be good and effective to a certain point.
And i think a bricklayer is gonna be more suited with doing a little bodyweight exercises and go for a little run a mayby a little soccer or something like that.
And not anything more straining that that..
He does not care how much people weight but most people do and they have good reason to care.
How does ROM relate to your definition of strength? It seems to leave that point. In your criteria for best lifts, ROM is important. Surely you wouldn't think 12 inch ROM wide stance sumo is as strong as doing it conventional at the same weight.
riso horvath all things being equal my dude. moving more weight through advantageous leverages doesn't mean more strength was produced.
okay assume 2 people are doing conventional but have marginally different ROMs, one has best possible levers, other worst ones. They lift same amount of weight. Are they both equally strong?
The strength definition of Rippetoe, to me, lacks ROM component.
Strength is specific. That is point number two on any definition.
The guy who deadlifts 600 may be weaker at squatting than the guy who deadlifts 575. Being stronger at one thing doesn't make you stronger at everything.
A 12 inch sumo pull is simply a different measure of strength than a 16 inch conventional pull. In much the same way a rack pull is different from a deadlift, or a parallel squat from a full squat, or a board press from a bench press.
But of course when you have to people pulling conventional you just have to draw the line and say that while the lifts aren't exactly equal, they are equivalent, because otherwise you could never compare anything at all as we are all different.
riso horvath that's why all things being equal is a given in these conversations since "strength is infinity complex from person to person". we have different starting strength, speed of motor unit recruitment, peak motor unit recruitment, muscle fiber distribution, lever lengths, joint insertions, tendon insertions, and a dozen other things. but all things being equal. pulling 600 displays more strength then 575. ur trying to compare apples and oranges.
Force=mass*acceleration
work=Force*length
Torque=force*moment arm
effect=work/time
my terminology might be a bit off, but physics has everything to do when you think about how ROM correlates to strength, and how much force you need to use in order to lift a certain amount of weight
I'm stronger on the inside, and that's what counts
😂😂😂
all muscles are on the _inside_
@@fsmoura GOTTEM
He says in his book that the person who is strong on the inside is even better even he becomes stronger on the outside as well
Strength, - > power for a time, - >produces energy and force transfers it.
Could you imagine telling RIP YES, I would like to argue with you about strength.
What about the SAID principle? A bricklayer of many years will adapt to the specific demands of bricklaying (its not just lifting bricks- leaning/sitting uncomfortably etc) whereas a 600lb deadlifter will have adapted to lifting very heavy weights for short amounts of time only. True?
The bricklayer is neither strong, nor is he endurant! Bricklaying, or in my case constructions, is exhausting for about two weeks. thats it. after that your just tired after work, because you just adapted to the stress you experiance every day. You do not get stronger, because you don't lift heavier weights, and you do not get more endurant, because you don't work longer every day, i.e. you don't train. Also, how much is the 20 RM of a 600lb lifter? 3-4x that of a average guy.
@@thetruth5232
But what if we use another analogy such as MMA. In MMA training you can always get stronger by working harder, doing more rounds, lifting more etc etc. So whos stronger, Brian Shaw or Jon Jones? Brian can lift heavier static objects but Jon can easily throw Brian around like a child. So what is strength?
@@JamesSmith-cm7sg Brian Shaw is stronger than Jon Jones. You said it yourself "Brain can lift heavier static objects". Jon can beat him in a fight because he knows how to fight better, but Shaw is stronger.
@@johnfarrell6264
The original claim was that a man who lifts heavy weights is stronger at brick laying than a brick layer.
Nobody is arguing the weight lifter is stronger when it comes to static low rep strength.
Let me ask you this, given a competition of brick laying over 8 hours, who would be able to lay more bricks, Jon Jones or Brian Shaw?
Doing manual work I've never once found myself wishing I was stronger. I almost always wish I had more endurance. I'm not convinced focusing on strength alone is going to help you the most for that sort of employment but maybe I'm misunderstanding point.
Erik Borch raw strength gives you endurance.
Totally agree. Some kinda bent over row would probably help any bent forward work, but again how much you can endure maintaining a healthy position, not how much you can lift in that position. If the latter, see your union rep😅
Top belch at the end there Rip
Well if strength is the ability to produce force against resistance, what is power?
pike power is the ability to produce force but you'll need to be faster that's power strength + speed
Omar Salah kinda like speed strength speed vs speed stregth
Power is the ability to display strength quickly.
pike Accelerated strength.
Power is the rate at which you produce that force
Yea same applied to squat,bench and ohp
The brick layer would still have higher endurance, duh. pretty damn simple concept.
So Brick layer strength isn’t strength at all it’s brick layer endurance
All different kinds of strength
The question is: which kind of strength is best? Which one would give more health benefits?
Not for an athlete that might requires specific stuff for his sport but for guys who want to train with weights.
Gy there is no which kind of strength since every healthy human being has the same anatomy. Strengthen those muscles and you will get stronger. Athletes dont do specific strength training they do specific skill training of their sports.
I lay pipe all day long, and I am exhausted afterwards.
Why would you not add body mass with strength? Shouldn't it be equal starting points for measurement? For example in boxing they have different weight classes for a very important reason. 25 pounds is a big difference and an advantage.
Thomas OConnor because that’s not what he’s arguing, there are all sorts of different weight classes for weightlifting events, powerlifting, strongman, etc. but that’s not relevant to the topic itself. All that mark is saying is that the guy who lifts/pulls/pushes/drags more weight than the next guy, regardless of all other factors, is the stronger guy. “Pound for pound” strength doesn’t make a damn bit of difference when there’s something that needs to be moved that I can’t move, but a guy 50 pounds heavier than me can move. When comparing athletic ability, then yes, the weight classes are factored into the argument, because then it’s not about raw physical strength, it’s also about conditioning, reaction time, mental/spacial awareness, etc. but the question of strength is not so complicated.
Mark, can I sub this video to portuguese and upload?
I second that! I'd like to put some Spanish subtitles to this and share it.
Btw. Progressive overloading is different from Mechanical Load.
gr8 coach would like to be in your academy
however, if the brick layer increased his deadlift 100 pounds his job would be easier.
Id recommend bent over row in addition, and face pull. Bullet proof back and shoulders for people that work bent over all day.
The bricklayer is too sore from working all day, to deadlift. A daily diet of cheesburgers, pizza and bologna sangwiches probably doesn't help.
I've been lied to. I thought I was gonna see him deadlift
I think the functional folks' argument is washed out a little bit. I think the question is, which way of working out makes you stronger to do the things in your life. Not to widdle it down to the simplistic definition of strength. Now if you are saying that barbell training helps me more in my life than bodyweight exercises or whatever, that's different. I know that adding muscle for health reasons as you get older is a factor discussed on this channel too so does that also mean that lifting heavy weights on a bar for strength is also the best way to add muscle mass? Anyone feel like addressing these novice questions? Thanks
How about Old Man Strength?
"Strength is NOT a choice, it's an OBLIGATION!"
Is there a video where he talks about inner strength?
The only thing what would make it hard to lay bricks all day was if you done a 600ibs deadlift the night before
The sheer amount of mental gymnastics people are doing here to attempt to discredit his point are astounding. Look, I don't agree with a good half of Rip's training philosophy, but absolute strength is absolute f*ckin' strength - more pounds lifted is more pounds lifted. "But dur -- my bodyfat is below negative 5 percent and I can run a 2 minute mile and my abs show when I'm deadlifting 200lbs!' That's great! Love to hear it. You sound very physically fit and proportionately strong given the handicaps you present that quickly emerge when lifting heavier weights. Still doesn't discredit the fatso standing next to you who deadlifts more weight from being stronger. He is. You'll run laps around him and exhibit greater overall efficiency in other disciplines: cardiovascular fitness, endurance, bodyweight control, whatever the f*ck -- but in strength, sorry, you're not it.
A similar analogy can be made in how people conflate Strength with Fitness in how people conflate being a good student with being more intelligent.
Take for example - Student A studies 4 nights a week in preparation for a big test, of which he scores 98% on. Student B doesn't study at all for the test and blows it off for hanging out with his friends to do weed each night that week, and scores 81% on the test.
Who is smarter/more intelligent? Well, a case could be made for Student B because despite sabotaging himself to the point of handicap, his performance is approachable to Student A's, meaning that he may naturally be better suited to retain/understand the material better, possibly indicating he is more intelligent.
But who is the better student? Well, no if/and/or/buts about it, Student A, because despite having to put in more effort, study time, and going over the material with two different tutors prior - he still performed the best on the test. In measure of ABSOLUTE understanding of the material, Student A surpassed Student B.
(In case you're wondering, yes I was a student B type in school. 😂)
Now swap 'who is more intelligent?' with 'who is more Fit?', 'Who is the better student?' with 'Who is Stronger,' and change the test from an academic test to a test of who can deadlift the most. Get the picture? Your efficiency to perform comparably to others despite the handicaps you present by also being invested in other disciplines doesn't mean you are better than them at the discipline they specialize in. They are still better than you at that thing. Get over it and quit imagining variables that reclaim your threatened sense of superiority and recognize you can't be the best all the time, sometimes to be the jack of all trades means to be the master of none. 🤷♂️
But then again, surely, if you were a master at anything you probably would've already understood that, and wouldn't be here, would you?
Irony of watching Rip's no BS Strength definition only to be confronted with a V-shred ad afterwards.
guy with 80kg bodyweight and 60kg BW pullup add 20kg . who stronger ?
The powerlifter would be stronger, but handling a sub-maximal load for an extended period of time (brick laying) is more closely related to endurance work. Starting off, the guy who deadlifts 600 pounds is going to have an easier time. However, at the end of the day, the brick layer is going to feel better than the powerlifter, because he's been exposed to that type of endurance work before.
Those pesky Egyptians listened to Rip back in the day and raised the bar (pun intended) on bricklaying.
What you describe as functional training is not functional. Those people have hijacked the term and give it a bad reputation.
Functional training is training that will give you advantages outside the gym, for general purpose or for job or sports purposes.
If the power lifter, the one that can dead lift 600 lbs doesn't know how to lay bricks, the brick layer can kick his ass laying brick. Not saying, just saying.
Hi Rip, I've heard you say before that functional strength is useless, so I have been focusing solely on non-functional strength. My program consists of concentration curls, the 4 way neck machine, and half rep shrugs. Am I on the right track? I want to develop strength that has absolutely zero function. Thanks!
Hahahahahaha Made my day
it depends on what you do.force = mass x acelaration. that is why mike tyson is stronger than a 220 lbs powerlifter. cuz he can moove is mass fast and well. for example fighter have a body much more strong to take dmg and to do damage.
Faaack!
5:25 burp!
the functional strength people want to make strength complicated. "
Rip Loves Hole
maraton runer have strenth edurance but yes it has nothing to do with it
Strength does not always mean better performance. Make sure you know your clients goals. Athletic performance is more than strength. Wolfe’s law needs to be considered. As well as proper form/flexibility with each lift. Or discs and rotator cuffs blow out.
@clint stetler
Imo Strictly spoken more strength always means a better overall performance on (static) strength dependend physical exercises. However, when talking of athletic performance in general one always has to slide things like mobility, flexibility, technique and plyometrics into the equation, as these factors help shape your strength output to a significant degree as well. Simply said, technique places your body in the most advantagous starting postion possible to max out on strength, flexibility lengthens the trajectory of the muscles involved in producing strength (thus making for larger contractions) and finally, mobility enables you to apply force in a dynamic way, so that a number of static force outputs are kind of strung together in a short time span to create a movement pattern that doubles as an athletic performance. Moreover , speed (think of explosiveness and reaction time) will also factor in, which in most cases contributes to strength transmuting into power, which is a different beast alltogether. So, imo, all in all, more strength will lead to a better performance only if co-factors like mobility, flexibilty and technique are squeezed out of the performance equation. Have a nice athletic day. :)
I disagree that someone who can lift more is stronger in all cases. This sounds stupid at face value, but if you think about it isn't. People have different biomechanics, this means that if you have short arms and a long torso you will naturally deadlift a lot less than someone of the same height with a short torso and long arms. Does that mean that your muscles are producing less force than the person with biomechanics, often not. If we put these 2 people to wrestle, the person who deadlifts less because of biomechanics might actually be stronger in the wrestling movement patterns. So although on average if you lift heavier your muscles are stronger, this may not always be the case due to different leverages.
No dimensions to Strength? "How hard you can push on something, that's all it is..." Huh....
Professor Yuri Verkhoshansky, renowned Russian Exercise Physiologist, author of over 500 published papers, father of Plyometric training, Special Strength training, Shock method, Conjugate sequence System and the Block training system and who's work is the basis for many of the best strength athletes and coaches around the world "Louie Simmons included" Says Different.
Mel Siff and Dr. Verkhoshansky, in their classic text Supertraining describe both the many different types of strength and why its important for the athlete and coach to segregate the complexities/dimensions involved in strength training so that indiviualized potential may be optimized and ultimate goals realized. He concludes that strength has multiple dimensions including:
Maximal/absolute Strength
Explosive strength
Strength-Speed
Flexibiltiy Strength
Strength Endurance
SImplifying concepts for beginners is one thing, spewing personal thoughts (not science) and offering them as fact is misleading and just plain ole wrong! Frankly speaking its quite exhausting to hear Mr. Rippetoe, a former geologist and gym owner from Wichita Falls Texas, whom to my knowledge never accomplished anything memborable himself in the powerlifting community nor has he coached anyone of any notoriety, continue to constantly bash anyone who doesn't share his thoughts (not Science) on the subject of strength training including, NSCA, exercise physiologists, nutritionists, all Olympic and powerlifting organizations, strength coaches, physical therapists, personal trainers and the majority of strength athletes around the world.
The constant bashing of proven science in place of personal beliefs destroys both the integrity and crediblity of the SS community. I am confident in where Dr. Verkhoshansky derives his findings and thus I apply them to my training. Where does Starting Strength derive their data?
So which kind of strength is "best"? Which one would give more health benefits?
Not for an athlete that might requires specific stuff for his sport but for guys who want to train with weights.
"papers"
stewart breeding Try hard
They derive data from thousands of students becoming stronger. Use your own brain and stop copy pasting shit from people who don’t lift or coach.
i would like to be the 200lb guy who deads 575.
@Ze TheGame What are you trying to say?
I reckon ripp has been scammed by bricklayers at some stage, always uses them in his analogies.
strength is neurological it's not just physical
What he said is fact, but I take issue with one thing.
The guy with the 600 lbs deadlift is without question stronger then the brick layer accustom to moving 80 pounds of brick all day, but that still does not mean he will have the easier day doing the brick layers work.
Say they both work for 10 hours in one day and quota/ deadline requirements dictate that they maintain a certain pace for work that day. This exercise becomes one of not only strength but muscle endurance as well.
Captain deadlift may look like a champion for the first few hours of the day, but the brick layer whose body has adapted to the rigors of that particular job (over years and years of repetition) could foreseeable out pace captain deadlift, or outlast him outright over that 10 hour span.
That was my only issue (not picky, yes I know).
2:05
I really appreciate this message and agree with it, but I feel like its somehow an oversimplification for some athletes. I feel I have improved greatly as a wrestler and BJJ competitor from raw deadlift gains, but I also feel like I have improved greatly from the "silly bosu ball" type of exercises that promote balance and single limb coordination and stability. I feel like both camps are oversimplifying things, and the best atheletes are doing BOTH: deadlifting heavy AND doing pistol squats on a bosu ball.
And of course, as an athlete there is so much more to it. Can you produce the force quickly? Can you produce the force quickly from one foot? Can you produce the force while twisting and falling backwards to execute that throw and land on top? Can you hop around on one leg to defend the single leg all while hand fighting? Can you maintain your ability to produce force quickly for the entire match? My experience is that these and many other factors are also important in deciding the outcome of many atheletic endeavors (in my case wrestling), and that many of these factors benefit from more than just the basic barbell movements (although of course the basic barbell movements form the foundation)
He's not saying the bosu ball and pistol squats aren't helping an athlete, like yourself, he's saying that compared to the big lifts they aren't as valuable for ***making you stronger***
Hold on! Strength is one thing. Being healthy and in shape is another thing. In 40 years of training I saw a lot of guy lifting heavy weights. They are not there anymore. Balance, balance. Everything is relative. Still, Mr Rippetoe, you are a very good teacher.
The bricklayer analogy is very wrong. A brick layer will piss all over a pure powerlifter at laying bricks. With practice of any physical task our bodies develop concentrated abilities to perform them. A powerlifter would be sore the next after laying bricks, despite his strength, because laying bricks is a specific task his body isn't used to.
Yes some peopel have better 20 rep max than dude ho bench more 1rm
Ability to produce force against an external resistance is power or force production measured in % of 1 rep max.Applied to training is how much tension you can generate in the fibers of the used muscle.More weight on the bar and the muscle must contract harder to lift it.
When you do a rep it can be defined as work W=F*S. W=work F=Force S=distance in other words how much force is the muscle producing(and overcoming the weight on the bar) for a given distance.That's why partial reps are always easier than the full range of motion. Less distance=less work=less fatigue.
Now when you add time into the mix you get strength which is defined as the amount of work done in a given amount of time or P=W/T P=strength W=work T=time.
So Mr.Rippetoe respectfully, you are omitting the dimension of time (or total volume done in a workout) in your definition of strength.Power and strength are not the same thing just as a Powerlifter is different from a Crossfit athlete.The former is stronger in absolute terms the latter is stronger over longer periods of time.Furthermore strength as you surely know in the context of human performance is very specific to the activity performed.So yes a experienced bricklayer can be stronger than a powerlifter at laying bricks all day long.
Lastly the guy deadlifting 600 at 275 has done a 600/275=2.18 bodyweight lift whereas the guy doing 575 at 200 has done a 575/200=2.87 bodyweight lift therefore the 275 pound guy is relatively weaker than the 200 pound guy but absolutely stronger.
I could bench Mark though
This guy has a got a strong mouth, that is about it. It goes forever... such stamina
He makes a good point, but his deadlift example is wrong. Leverages play a huge role into lifting weights. Weaker person with great leverages could lift more weight than stronger person with bad leverages. That's why bench and deadlift are not good demonstrators of strength. Squat would be better, but still there are way too many variables to take into account to truly asses who is stronger. One thing we can agree is that basic compound barbell movements are best tools to get stronger.
This is a perfect example of not grasping the meaning of absolute strength. If a person with great leverages can lift more weight than a person with bad leverages, then they are stronger. Their corresponding leverages, bodyweight, age, gender, or limb lengths are not relevant. You cannot say the person with good leverages is less strong if you define strength as it is defined by Rip. It would be equally wrong to say a 250 lb person that is 7 foot weighs less than a 240 lb person that is 5 foot.
There is no way to measure absolute strength, you would have use 100+ different barbell movements to even comes close with smaller percent error. Lets have a scenario, a person with bigger deadlift is stronger than a person with smaller deadlift, but if the first person has smaller squat than the second person, who is stronger? Using your logic, if I can curl more weight im stronger than you? If you mean absolute strength in contest of deadlift, then you have to say the person has stronger deadlift. Rip likes to use his own terms that sometimes contradict basic logic, so he can avoid catch 22, I seen enough of his videos to see that. No hate on Rip, I love his books, but I believe he is a terrible speaker because he tends to avoid answering questions when someone asks, just watch all of his videos for the reference.
You're still missing the point. Based on your examples; the second person has a stronger squat, and you would be stronger at curls.
Rip isn't doing mental gymnastics to prove a point, everyone else is. We're not always going to be superior in every single way. To simplify it; just use squat, bench, deadlift, and press to measure strength. It's entirely possible to be stronger than someone on every single lift, or just some of them. That doesn't change anything.
Strength is a combination of muscles and neural efficiency. Also with specific movement there is also leverages and skill that come into play of ability to demonstrate the strength. Rip is using squat, bench, deadlift and press to measure strength because its the most convenient way, but it doesnt mean those are absolute ways and those ways can deceiving because of the leverages like I explained earlier, it will vary person to person.
Im gonna rewatch the video and post his words into caption, so I have exact examples to discuss.
The point is still being missed. Leverages don't matter, neural efficiency doesn't matter, and other metrics to judge strength don't matter. The amount of weight being moved matters, period. Making it a convoluted flow chart is just over complicating a very simple statement; whoever lifts more is stronger. That's just how it is. You can try to introduce other metrics like neural efficiency and leverages, but at the end of the day if someone else is lifting more weight, they're stronger.
I don't see why people take issue with this. I can bench around 305lbs and that's fine with me. Am I strong? Compared to the average person walking down the street? Probably. Compared to an average gym bro? Depends on the bro. But it's not like I'm going to be world class, and ultra competitive in a weight class sport like powerlifting; so I don't understand why people need to "feel' stronger than they are.
There's always going to be people stronger than you or I am, and trying to "get around it" by introducing weird standards like relative strength and measuring neural efficiency really just dilutes the meaning of being strong to begin with.
Just to point out; i'm not trying to convey this message in an aggressive manner, and i'm not purposefully trying to be argumentative. I guess I'm just trying to come from a pragmatic point of view, as I think Rip also does.
I think stength is a bit more complicated than this definition. Suppose you have someone (Person A) who deadlifts 600 lbs and someone (Person B) who deadlifts 575 lbs, but Person A squats 440 lbs and Person B squats 459 lbs. Who is stronger then?
Bricklayer may actually be able to work for much longer if he's up against someone who trains for pure strength with 40-60 minute workouts.
Perhaps at the first section of a long day, the lifter will do quite well, but he isn't used to the high reps that the brick layer does from carrying around 80 pounds all day long. But training strength is still cool.
this is the only time I disagree. I have a friend that was a professional mover all through college, his company did pianos and houses and stuff. we worked out often, I was bigger and stronger on all gym lifts but we were helping a buddy move once. we had just moved a couch and I was wrecked and he was still taking stairs 2 at a time, knocking it out. by the way if you shook his hand he could bring big guys to there knees, accidentally, his hands were just bear claws, grip like a vice 😊
Endurance vs strength...
6 mis of god damn nothing
So what about the 180 lean guy who can do 20 pull-ups? Is he stronger than the fat powerlifter who can deadlift 700 pounds but can only do one pull-up? 🤔
Ada Dubuisson no he isn’t.
I'm going to have to agree and disagree. Clearly the deadlifter is stronger at picking something up off of the ground, but the 180 guy is much stronger when it comes to pulling himself up over something.
No he has better muscle endurance
@@BartyCrease How does that even make sense from a mathematical standpoint? The three power lifts are only one very limited way of measuring "strength."
@@adadubuisson8581 get yourself in the gym instead of analyzing it analasys doesnt show results testing shows results 👍🏽 then come back when you know what youre talking about
Their is grown man strength and Ree tar ded strength.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Starting Strength. The progressive overload is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of overhead press form, most of the barbells will go over a typical lifters head. There's also Rippetoes nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his number of sets - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Bill Starr's routine, for instance. The lifters understand this stuff; they have the glute development to truly appreciate the depths of these squats, to realize that they're not just below parallel- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike starting strength truly ARE DYELs- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the rep range in Rippetoes day B of squats, which itself is a cryptic reference to Zyzz's initial workout method. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Rippetoes genius unfolds itself on their lowerbody. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have a lower back injury. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5kg of my own squat (preferably lower) beforehand.
Noah Colby Too long, didn't read. Sorry
Sorry Mark, strength is revealed by comparing with age and weight....so, if the guy who lifts 575 is 60 years old, he is stronger for his age than most....he should be compared to guys his age and his weight. That is how you get a person's strength level.
Up to 600 lbs? Come on man. Call a real number. Pfft!
Pedant Patrol pretty sure he deadlifts 600. maybe 500. but he's old. there's a video on here of him deadlifting.
He lifted 633 after he squatted 684 and has a 500 DL now as he drinks whiskey and trains twice a month.
Anybody who has ever worked on a farm, and hired extra hands, can attest to having hired those big muscular, 300 pound sacks of steroid infused blood clots, and scar tissue, and knows full well that after those big blutos throw half a dozen bales of hay, they are pretty much done for the day. Oh sure, they can deadlift 600 pounds, but they couldn't off load two trucks full of hay, to save their lives. I'd much rather hire a kettlebell athlete, than some powerlifter.
oh no here we go again..
well i guess youre right Mark in that there is only one type of strenght.
and that the bricklayer is not strong. but he is endurant. thats the key
and i can tell you that the power lifter and the bricklayer can not switch trade.
the bricklayer can not lift a heavy barbell of the ground and the power lifter cannot bare to stand with his back bended all day long.
besides theres one more thing about manual labour that doesnt work so well with working out with heavy weights several times a week .
and thats the recovery. thats a gurantee
Oh no here we go again... First: The bricklayer is neither strong, nor is he endurant! Bricklaying, or in my case constructions, is exhausting for about two weeks. thats it. after that your just tired after work, because you just adapted to the stress you experiance every day. You do not get stronger, because you don't lift heavier weights, and you do not get more endurant, because you don't work longer every day, i.e. you don't train.
Second: Nobody should stand with a bend back. Thats the number one cause for back problems in constructions, no control over your lumbar spine. You should bend over at the hips, and use your erector spinea to keep your back flat. But the average male can't even do that. Every 600lb lifter does automatically.
Anecdote:
I don't have a 600lb DL yet, but all my colleagues and tradies i know that don't train, are weak, and exhausted every day. Before i trained, i was too. that changed after i had a 300x5 deadlift and 220x5 squat. Work wasn't exhausting since then. With a 500lb deadlift, i can even carry 300lb steel beams by myself while im still not even slightly as exhausted as my colleagues lifting them together.
@@thetruth5232 you did not just say that a bricklayer shouldn't stand with a bend back did you?
You know nothing about laying bricks. It's impossible to lay bricks if you do not bend over.
Now i did not say that you shouldn't train with barbells. You definitely should!
But it's not the case that a better deadlift is going to make your day easier the heavier you can lift! Especially not for a more endurance type of work than yours.
Also again the recovery can become a problem.
@@thetruth5232 and a bricklayer definitely has endurance muscles in his back that's a guarantee!
Make Brian Shaw stack bricks all day and let's see if his deadlift goes up or down. And make a bricklayer train hard witgh heavy barbells 5 times a week and see if his bricklayers endruance goes up or down. I gurantee you that you know nothing about laying bricks as none of you here do.
You allready now that you cant be a strenght athlete and a endurance athlete at the same time. You can be a hybrid though.
And thats probably what you are.
But you can't be very good at both.
Lifting heavy barbells is good to a certain point depending on your goals.
And yes again i gurantee you that laying bricks is more endurance than what you think
@@mynameisnobody3931 Sure.
@@thetruth5232 for sure
I don't really agree with him. Deadlift isn't just dependant on strength, it's also depends on leverage. Everything else being equal, the guy with longer arms will pull more, and the guy with shorter arms will bench more...so strength is movement specific. Also, pretty sure a guy who lays bricks for a living would be better than a strong deadlifter, at laying bricks, because brick laying isn't dependant on how much you deadlift.
Allan Bilodeau hahahah that profile pic..bloho in his best days
Olympic lifters are the strongest athletes and are often lighter in weight. Please don't try to weigh 275 people, you can become crazy strong at 200 and below
I respect Rippetoe, but he's full of crap. Lol! A strong guy may adapt quicker to manual labor, but that strong person will have a harder time than the guy that has already been laying bricks for a living. Now if the strong guy has the same experience, then yeah, he will do better. As a laborer, you will see new younger guys go home complaining of how tired they are, while older guys are okay. JMO.
gotta disagree about the relative strength vs absolute strength point he tried to make
the 200lb guy who can deadlift 575lbs is stronger then the 275lb guy who can deadlift 600lbs. because imo relative strength is the true honest test of strength
becasue absolute strength can be abused by just getting fat (just like relative strength can be abused by staying light to be fair but my point still stands)
you're being ridiculous.. it's simple. If you lift more weights, your stronger. We aren't talking about body weight, we are talking about strength, and strength doesn't care what your body weight is. Your opinion doesn't change facts
Rippetoe's point still stands though. If you loaded a bar with 600lbs then only one of the guys in the example would be able to lift it. Therefore, outside of competitive sports with weight classes, the 275lb guy is the stronger of the two, even if his strength-to-weight ratio is lower.
***** it does matter. That's why there is a distinction between relative and absolute strength
Ok for example that 275lbs guy might be able to deadlift 600lbs for a 1RM. but his 1RM pullup is his bodyweight plus 25lbs. Where as the 200lbs guys 1RM pullup is his bodyweight plus 55lbs
So now in terms of absolute strength the 200lbs guy is stronger
So u see how absolute strength can be a bad measure of true strength. Relative strength takes that into account
Remember mass moves mass, I don't have to get stronger to increase my deadlift 1RM by 20lbs, I can just get fatter and it will go up too. But I haven't actually gotten stronger muscles, as soon as I drop the extra fat my deadlift 1RM would have barely got higher
The Dagda yes and no. Read my second comment (one above this)
we are not talking about relative strength. Rip said strength is force expressed on a external resistance, which obviously isn't relative. He never mentioned relative strength, he's talking about just strength, which he gave the definition of. Absolute strength doesn't take bodyweight into consideration, because we don't take bodyweight into consideration because it is the force you are exerting on external stimuli because we are talking about STRENGTH.
As a third generation brick Mason I disagree. There is such a thing as brick Mason strength.