Non-professional reballing setup for PS3. Can I succeed this time?
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- čas přidán 30. 12. 2022
- Declaimer: I am a non-professional who has no experience in soldering before. PS3s got me into this rabbit hole around a year ago. I am still a beginner, but I want to learn more about it and become like @ripfelix3020.
Special thanks to @calyps0man and @ripfelix3020 for giving me constructive suggestions on how to improve my setup. - Jak na to + styl
preheat too low.
You need 200C on the board top before you bring in the hot air.
250-260 it should come loose
Hello! Didn't expect to see you here. I'm watching your channel regularly! One of the best! Also i love the editing :D
the gpu doctor is here 😮
Wow, I can't believe I missed your comment for such a long time! I'm a huge fan of both you and @NorthridgeFix.
It's truly an honor to see you here. Thank you for dropping by and sharing your thoughts!
Got Norhtwestrepair here make this video a must learn !!!
Hi, advice from professional here. I have replaced more than 500 bga chips. I have also tried what you are doing right now in the past and had the same results. Firstly even if you get a single pop on the motherboard it's over. You need to let your motherboard and chip to be baked and release the trapped moisture for at least 24 hours, and the second thing is that your heatgun on top releases localized heat and that's what your sensor reports. You dont have the same temperature all over the chip, you have like 280 on one side and 170 on the other, you need a wider top heater to perform this task and your chip will come of at 220-225. Also if you dont support your board properly it will bend and be unusable.
Also a very important thing is for the bottom heater to heat the whole board enough up to 150-160 degrees Celcius before you start the top heater. Find your bottom heater temperature first at the distance you have the motherboard at, and after is settles and doesn't increase any higher than this temperature, then start the top heater, and remember that setting, if you change the distance between the bottom heater and the board even a bit, then you will need to adjust the bottom heater again. Get an infrared top heater 80x80mm. The distance usually is 3cm from the chip. Don't try to reball anything unless you want to replace a dead chip with a working one. A reball is not a repair. If the chip is defective just heating it up a bit with your heatgun will temporarily fix it and then fail again, the chip is dead (watch rip felix and louis rossmann for that). You can try the frankenstein mod + tantalum though! Both the 90nm RSX and those nec tokins fail, so it's better to replace them both. Get the 40nm which is the most reliable and compatible right now.
@@kostassidiropoulos9652 Thanks for your detail answer! It is very useful for beginners out there like me! It is nice to know that some professionals out there also started like this. If you don't mind, please feel free to share more about how you became a professional from a beginner. I am sure many of the audience also wanna know :)
I also received a lot of comments on upgrading my hot air gun to a IR top heater. Any recommendation? I want to buy a ready-to-use one so that I don't need to connect the PID myself. But many ready-to-use one comes with a preheater that is too small for the PS3 motherboard.
@@hardwarerepair200 I started with old defective laptops on 2011 when most windows vista laptops that had the 7000 and 8000 series nvidia GPUs would have the same problem as the 90nm RSX on the PS3. If you heat them a bit they would work. Fortunately I was watching various youtubers and Louis Rossmann and realized from the beginning that a reball is not a repair because you don't need to actually melt the balls to make it work again, if you heat it to like 120-140 degrees for a couple of minutes it will work, that's way less than the melting point of solder. I had also tried a couple of reballs on many laptops and they would fail at the same rate like the ones I just heated at this temperature. So the reason the reball works is just because you need to heat the chip in order to remove it and make the reball, that's what does the temporary fix. Rip felix has a great explanation what actually happens to the chip and that it's not repairable. So I did what you did there with a cheap preheater and the hot air station as a top heater. Then I purchased the IR6000 Chinese BGA station and was finally able to solder BGA chips. When you own a big enough preheater and top heater, the only concern is to get your board fully covered by the bottom heater to prevent difference in temperature on the board and also mount it properly in many positions so it doesn't warp. Use a profile that is not too fast, I use a ramp rate of 0.33 degrees Celsius per second, so it needs 3 seconds to raise 1 degree. I also think that there is no perfect BGA station. Building your own would be great, so the PID controller is a much better option, it's not that hard to do, it has all the built in functions and it's cheap, I haven't tried myself yet so I can't tell you what to do. I currently own a repair shop in my country and do various repairs for companies and clients.
@@kostassidiropoulos9652 Amazing You're thanks for the Informations!!!!!
Yea you basically need to spend at least $700-$1000 CAD to do a job as a hobbyist. You realistically need to spend $10000 CAD to do the job in a professional setting
I am a subscriber to GDTechinformatica, I perform reballings in my daily work and at the beginning it was exactly the same, the worst thing is being able to adjust a good temperature curve (heating speed and temperature control). my tip is to use scrap boards to get the hang of the temperatures and good luck! I'm Brazilian and I really liked your video showing that you learn from mistakes
If you are reading Felix rip's advice then you are on the right track. Looking forward to watching your next video. Do not give up and keep practicing.
Thanks! I will try my best to do a successful reballing at home.
Keep going. Best regards from Brazil.
Hello everything is fine? I saw your video through the channel
GDTech Informatica. I really like this type of work. I wish you all the success you need to always improve. Strong hug.
You and RIP-Felix inspired me to give this a shot for myself. I have basically the same equipment as you and managed to remove the failed GPU off a slim PS3 motherboard without lifting any pads. Unfortunately, the GPU itself was heavily damaged in the process. I lost some passives on the top and the solder mask on the bottom has almost entirely disintegrated. I don't remember exactly what temperatures I used but I think I had the preheater set to 240 degrees and the hot air set to 280-300. The board was left on the preheater to warm up for 10-15 minutes before I applied some flux and started the hot air. The power and ground connections on the board were still brutal to deal with. They took an incredible amount of heat before finally melting and letting me pull the chip off. Luckily I did not hear any pops from the motherboard. It's winter in the Midwest United States where I live which means that it's quite dry indoors (30-40% humidity) so I think that might be a part of it. I'm planning on giving it a shot in the future with a fat PS3 instead but I'm waiting on some dead ones to show up first before I attempt it.
My skill is nowhere close to Felix. But I am glad that you find my video useful.
Yes, desoldering the GPU from a PS3 motherboard is difficult. Keep it up and you will become one of the greatest PS3 repairmen!
I cannot tell if your TC is on the motherboard or on top of the chip ? It should be next to the chip and pressed against the motherboard flat. Your holder is not pressing it enough. The temperature differences are quite large when it's held lightly versus pressed against the pcb. Your hot air also seems far from the chip. You're right that the preheater temperature may not have been enough, but I noticed going over 220 C is risky and can lead to more popping. In general, I'm not a fan of hot air. I have tried it once and did not succeed. I'd recommend IR, but it's complicated to build. Also popping can happen if you don't bake it.
Pop sound is because of collapses and expands during the temperature change.
You should raise the preheater and hot air at a same time. Hot air temperature should be about 50 degrees more. Not a lot.
you should heat the bord to 190c just with preheater than trun on uper heater because uper heater will kill the chip and bord and rsx will not move down heat is the one removing the chip
You found a new sub
Thanks for watching and cheers!
Great video. Thanks. Where do you get your old cheap PS3 to practice on?
Thank you for watching! In my country, there is an app called "carousell". It's an app for people to sell their used stuffs.
I looked for PS3 there. From time to time, I find nice deals there.
Hi thanks for the video, I am just learning about this kind of set up. I saw you mentioned PID controller in another comment and was wondering how that works. Is that using the digital thermometer to control the hot air flow to correct the actual temperature at the chip? What equipment do you need to add that? Very cool hobby
I haven't done it myself yet. But as far as I know, PID is needed only when you use a IR top heater instead of a hot air gun. Since I am still using hot air as my top heater, I don't need to use PID at the moment.
For the digital thermometer control, I know some people who build their own automation system. But for me, I am doing everything manually. The thermometer is there for me to check the temperature so that I know when to increase the temperature. It has no control function.
It's a fun hobby! But it is expensive. I only started around 8 months ago and I am still learning.
Thanks for the reply! Your system with hot air is just as advanced if you consider yourself part of the control loop i guess…
I am also going to try this,i just bought a quick 957dw for hot air and saving up for a pre heater! Plan is to remove some RSXs from broken boards to practise and one day do a frankenstein mod. It seems that for ps3 we don’t have much choice for preheaters since the mobo is so large
Hi, I just watched the video "SMD/BGA tests part 1" by Tony359 about this preheater. Skip to 15:34 - he shows the temperature set to 280 on the machine but the board temperature is measured at 180. So, perhaps the 8280 is not set high enough here, meaning a higher hot air temp is required and larger delta. Did you have any more luck since this video?
Thank you for the suggestion! Yes, I did try a few more times after this video.
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Try to use upper IR preheater instead hotair. I did it and took one GPU from old graphic card without broken pads. I used a 3d printer controller to control the temperature. I did a PID tuning before.
The 3D printer controller mod that you mentioned is interesting! Do you have a link that I can read more about it?
@@hardwarerepair200 I haven't because i did it by myself😃 You have to connect a temperature sensor and a upper ir preheater ( I bouhgt 400W one on aliexpress) and use any 3d printer board (because it is 400W you have to connect it through SSR) and thats all.
The problem also could be the nozzle. Some of those nozzles disperse heat uneavenly.
understand your pain..
i'm on the 4try and yet kill another good rsx.. so sad
Sad to hear that. Have you had any success after that?
I have a small question: Will PCB preheater make underside components fall?
Gucken sie wie die Chinesen das machen. BGA Reballing hot air rework station . Temperatur max 235 Grad.
Fangen Sie mit 100 Grad an für 90 Sek, dann 150 Grad 60 Sek, dann 190 Grad 30 Sekunden , dann 235 Grad 60 Sek. Maximal sollten es 300 Sekunden sein . Viel Spaß .👍
Die Heizplatte stellen Sie auf 120 Grad ein.
You can fix the 2 pads on the motherboard but after this much pops I don't think it will work even with new gpu.
Have you tried again?
how about an infrared nosle ?! does it make any difference in heat spreading evenly?
Your self reflection is about right.
You want the bottom heater to do the heavy lifting to begin with. Remember that the Puhui pre-heater you're using is showing you the temperature of the heating elements. It isn't showing the temperature of the top of the board where the RSX is. If you run the hot air AND the pre-heater at the same time, your external thermocouple is going to show you 200c, even though the rest of the board away from the hot air nozzle is probably somewhere closer to 80 - 100c. That's because hot air is blowing onto the thermocouple and throwing your readings off.
Pre-heat the board first and get it up to temperature before starting the hot air. That way you know the board is up to temperature.
You want the bottom heaters to get the top of the board to somewhere around 180c for lead free solder like the RSX uses. Typically once the top of the board is around 180c that's when you start heating from the top. Nudge the temperature of the hot air up in increments so that the RSX heats up by around 10c at a time. Your chip should lift at around 230c. Let the temperature dwell for a little while to ensure the entire chip is heated evenly, then increment another 10c until you reach around 230c.
To avoid popcorning you want to bake your PS3 boards at around 100 to 125c for between 12 to 48 hours before attempting any desoldering/soldering. Popcorning is caused by small amounts of moisture trapped between the PCB layers becoming superheated and the pressure of the steam causes the layers to delaminate. If you live somewhere humid this is more of a problem.
The other problem you likely have is that the hot air isn't even. You can fix that by inserting a small open impeller into the hose of the nozzle where it mounts to the hot air wand. The impeller doesn't need to spin. It's just to disperse the hot air evenly through the nozzle so it heats the board evenly. You can buy them pre-made or just make one from an old soda can.
Also, that Puhui preheater is dangerous as it is from the factory. Some of the metal parts are insufficiently earthed and should the device ever become live you may become the path to earth if you touch any of the live parts. You can fix that by taking it apart and properly wiring earth to ensure the metal housing has a low resistance path to earth on each part.
Thank you for your suggestions. I have made a few more videos using the suggestions that made by you.
@@hardwarerepair200 Awesome! I'll check that out for sure. Hopefully it was helpful info.
The trick is to presoak heat into the board for 20mins. Im afraid you won't successfully remove the rsx with hot air, you need a IR top heater that focuses the required heat. My t-870a does it well at bottom temp of 145c, then turning on the top heater for 10s at 220c, this is with the board being heated for 20min at 130c
Too much unfocused heat creates warping and popping on rsx and components around the board
Thanks for your comment! I talked to Felix about this issue too and it seems hot air would also be doable given that the MB is "dry". The pop sounds seems to be due to moisture being trapped inside the board suddenly vaporized and exploded. Since I live in a tropical area (humidity 90-99% all year long), my MBs are all "wet". I would need to pre-bake the MBs for 24 hours to remove all the moisture before working on it.
May I know the humidity of the place that your are living? I believe it also plays a key role.
No problem, im in the united kingdom, and its winter so cold and damp. humidity can cause issues
When o tried to reflow the rsx I heard the popping sound and when its cooling down i heard it twice .i want to get the rsx replaced but i dont know if the rsx can be replaced because of the popping sounds ???
i am also having this problem with my nds 580
indicação do GDTech informática
quem mais veio do GDTech?
are you making any more vidoes ?
Yes, I have two new follow up videos.
It had been quite busy throughout 2023, and I will try my best to make more videos in 2024.
vai encher de BR essa sessão de comentários auhsuas
What happens of you heard popping sounds can you use the motherboard again ??
It's called PBC Delamination. It might still work, but the motherboard is already damaged due to delamination.
Onde consigo essa estação ??
T8280
Perhaps it started popping because that's what soda balls do?🙈
😂😂😂
Game over ☹️
you took too long, at most the whole desoldering process should last 4-5 minutes.
300?