I am 90 years old but try to stay sharp. It is always helpful to learn new methods. I actually have a laminated graph that is based on the same calculations. I believe it was included by Estimatic Company of Colorado with their estimating course that I took many years ago. I think the company is now long gone.
"Never stop learning" is a healthy habit to maintain. We'd love to see that laminated graph if you feel like sharing it. Take a photo and email it to sales@visioninfosoft.com - I haven't heard of Estimatic but it sounds like they had a pretty good electrical estimating course if they included tool that you have held onto all these years.
@@Visioninfosoft If I can locate the graph in the future I will email you a picture. Also Estimatic Corporation is no longer in business. They also had great information pages in their 3 ring binders, ie concentration factors for wire pulling (A table) Hope this helps. Will contact you later. At 90 years old I need more time. Thank you
@@Visioninfosoft Also there is another short cut method that an electrical contractor and myself developed. I cab discuss this at a later date, Howard C
When you say branch circuits, how many conductors are you figuring in those branch circuits? 15-20ft avg branch for most commercial? how many conductors? 1-1-1? 2-2-1? 3-3-1? 4-2-1? You'll have 3way and 4way branch in there somewhere as well I'm sure. Does your average cover those as well? what about ISO ground circuits? how are those covered or does it matter? I still do it the old way and it is VERY time consuming just to group all the circuits together let alone running circuits to outlet areas.
1 circuit, 3 conductors for each run using an average of 15-20 foot each (unless other adjustments for ceiling height, etc. need to be made). ISO ground or dedicated home runs are included.
Hi thanks for the videos, quick question how do you estimate the amount of wire need it for a given number of fixture and a given number of receptacles?
In most commercial applications, you would use an average of 20 feet per fixture and/or device. But, that does not include homeruns. Otherwise, you would use the actual measured lengths.
I feel that using this method is a bit inaccurate but hey if it's still going to be profitable on the contractor's end then its all good. I personally use AutoCAD which I have tailored with additional lsp files, Microsoft Excel and Python for quick and accurate estimates.
Patrick, what type of jobs are you estimating? We'd love to hear more detail of your strategies. Most of our customers get their electrical plans as PDF files. No AutoCAD. However, there are situations where AutoCAD comes into play. Using AutoCAD lisp files and Python are advanced methods for creating estimates in some industries and specialized types of jobs. Our software excels at helping electrical contractors bid on commercial electrical jobs.
@@Visioninfosoft I mainly estimate mid- high rise building installations but there were times when I needed to estimate some residential ones. I import pdf files into CAD then convert it into DWG. Using AutoCAD is still the old school way but it allows you to simply draw lines for where you run conduit going into the panels and with lisp files you can add up the total length for all the lines you drew. There are also lisp files that allow you to detect how many elements of a specific drawing there is so you can count the amount of fixtures, switches and similar things easily. I made myself an app from python with GUI that has data for market price of each electrical component and for automating addition of lengths for conduit, wire (for every outlet and switch), amount of fittings, clamps and pull boxes, etc. Residential building estimates take about an hour or two and mid-high rise buildings take about a whole day or two.
@@The_Herniator Wow, that sounds pretty resourceful! We wish our customers had access to the engineer/designer's original AutoCAD file so that we could integrate our bidding software with a meta-data-rich file. But, what you are doing is pretty interesting. Our Electrical Bid Manager software integrates directly with PlanSwift. This combination gives you a built-in database of electrical assemblies and items that you use to measure conduit/wire runs, count fixtures/switches/etc, and automatically calculate labor and pricing with a direct connection to your local supplier. PlanSwift also allows you to do basic design/build work on the plan if needed. It is a valuable tool for electrical estimators. Thank you for sharing your bidding process.
@@earcher0 Everything here in the Philippines is done with AutoCAD 2D making the conversion process of PDF into DWG much easier. It's just simple PDFattach and PDFimport on AutoCAD.
Regarding home runs, what about over 30A or branch/feeder for mechanical equipment? Would you do the same formula or takeoff point-point? Some jobs allow multiple over 30a or 3ph in same conduit and some do not. Engineer specific.
@@brianhoffelder8830 I just realized this. You had a 100'x60' and cut the 100' in half equals 50'. then multiply 50' x 10 home runs equal 500'. then you entered 500' x 10 run into EBM. How do you fit a 500ft home run into a building that's 100' max length? wouldn't you have 10 runs of 50' home runs and not 10 runs of 500' ? This doesn't register right with me. Seems way too much home run for a 100' building.
@@brianhoffelder8830 that's what I thought but in the video it looked like you entered 10 runs of 500ft. I'm not used to EBM, haven't used it in years.
I see you make final adjustments for average branch circuits to account for vertical distances, but you don't make the same consideration for home runs. It seems like that short-cut for home runs would only be taking into consideration horizontal distances. Can you explain the rationale to not adding vertical distances to the home run calculation?
The home run calculation is just an approximation. Since the length is already rounded up (1/2 of the longest dimension rounded up to the next 10 feet), I don't know that it is necessary to adjust this further unless there are higher than normal ceilings (above 12 feet). Let us know if this helps.
The number is about the same for both commercial and residential. However, residential is usually 15A. We recommend you review your electrical code book for specifics but typical is 4 to 8 general purpose receptacles per circuit.
I am 90 years old but try to stay sharp. It is always helpful to learn new methods. I actually have a laminated graph that is based on the same calculations. I believe it was included by Estimatic Company of Colorado with their estimating course that I took many years ago. I think the company is now long gone.
"Never stop learning" is a healthy habit to maintain. We'd love to see that laminated graph if you feel like sharing it. Take a photo and email it to sales@visioninfosoft.com - I haven't heard of Estimatic but it sounds like they had a pretty good electrical estimating course if they included tool that you have held onto all these years.
@@Visioninfosoft If I can locate the graph in the future I will email you a picture. Also Estimatic Corporation is no longer in business. They also had great information pages in their 3 ring binders, ie concentration factors for wire pulling (A table) Hope this helps. Will contact you later. At 90 years old I need more time. Thank you
@@Visioninfosoft Also there is another short cut method that an electrical contractor and myself developed. I cab discuss this at a later date, Howard C
@@butterworthchapman6075 No hurry. It is great to have a chat with you. - Derrick @ Vision InfoSoft.
@@butterworthchapman6075 I'd be interested to learn your method.
When you say branch circuits, how many conductors are you figuring in those branch circuits? 15-20ft avg branch for most commercial? how many conductors? 1-1-1? 2-2-1? 3-3-1? 4-2-1? You'll have 3way and 4way branch in there somewhere as well I'm sure. Does your average cover those as well? what about ISO ground circuits? how are those covered or does it matter? I still do it the old way and it is VERY time consuming just to group all the circuits together let alone running circuits to outlet areas.
1 circuit, 3 conductors for each run using an average of 15-20 foot each (unless other adjustments for ceiling height, etc. need to be made). ISO ground or dedicated home runs are included.
Hi thanks for the videos, quick question how do you estimate the amount of wire need it for a given number of fixture and a given number of receptacles?
In most commercial applications, you would use an average of 20 feet per fixture and/or device. But, that does not include homeruns. Otherwise, you would use the actual measured lengths.
I feel that using this method is a bit inaccurate but hey if it's still going to be profitable on the contractor's end then its all good. I personally use AutoCAD which I have tailored with additional lsp files, Microsoft Excel and Python for quick and accurate estimates.
Patrick, what type of jobs are you estimating? We'd love to hear more detail of your strategies.
Most of our customers get their electrical plans as PDF files. No AutoCAD. However, there are situations where AutoCAD comes into play. Using AutoCAD lisp files and Python are advanced methods for creating estimates in some industries and specialized types of jobs. Our software excels at helping electrical contractors bid on commercial electrical jobs.
@@Visioninfosoft I mainly estimate mid- high rise building installations but there were times when I needed to estimate some residential ones. I import pdf files into CAD then convert it into DWG. Using AutoCAD is still the old school way but it allows you to simply draw lines for where you run conduit going into the panels and with lisp files you can add up the total length for all the lines you drew. There are also lisp files that allow you to detect how many elements of a specific drawing there is so you can count the amount of fixtures, switches and similar things easily. I made myself an app from python with GUI that has data for market price of each electrical component and for automating addition of lengths for conduit, wire (for every outlet and switch), amount of fittings, clamps and pull boxes, etc. Residential building estimates take about an hour or two and mid-high rise buildings take about a whole day or two.
@@The_Herniator Wow, that sounds pretty resourceful! We wish our customers had access to the engineer/designer's original AutoCAD file so that we could integrate our bidding software with a meta-data-rich file. But, what you are doing is pretty interesting.
Our Electrical Bid Manager software integrates directly with PlanSwift. This combination gives you a built-in database of electrical assemblies and items that you use to measure conduit/wire runs, count fixtures/switches/etc, and automatically calculate labor and pricing with a direct connection to your local supplier. PlanSwift also allows you to do basic design/build work on the plan if needed. It is a valuable tool for electrical estimators.
Thank you for sharing your bidding process.
Patrick, I'm curious about your process. How are you able to convert a 2d PDF file into a 3D CAD without the architect's original files?
@@earcher0 Everything here in the Philippines is done with AutoCAD 2D making the conversion process of PDF into DWG much easier. It's just simple PDFattach and PDFimport on AutoCAD.
Regarding home runs, what about over 30A or branch/feeder for mechanical equipment? Would you do the same formula or takeoff point-point? Some jobs allow multiple over 30a or 3ph in same conduit and some do not. Engineer specific.
I don't use shortcuts for 30 amp plus circuits; they need to be measured individually, even if you combine more than one circuit in a conduit.
@@brianhoffelder8830 I just realized this. You had a 100'x60' and cut the 100' in half equals 50'. then multiply 50' x 10 home runs equal 500'. then you entered 500' x 10 run into EBM. How do you fit a 500ft home run into a building that's 100' max length? wouldn't you have 10 runs of 50' home runs and not 10 runs of 500' ? This doesn't register right with me. Seems way too much home run for a 100' building.
@@justinblunt5627 It's 10 home runs of 50 feet each that totals 500 feet.
@@brianhoffelder8830 that's what I thought but in the video it looked like you entered 10 runs of 500ft. I'm not used to EBM, haven't used it in years.
@@justinblunt5627 Sorry it wasn't clear. It's the Total or Overall length.
I see you make final adjustments for average branch circuits to account for vertical distances, but you don't make the same consideration for home runs. It seems like that short-cut for home runs would only be taking into consideration horizontal distances. Can you explain the rationale to not adding vertical distances to the home run calculation?
The home run calculation is just an approximation. Since the length is already rounded up (1/2 of the longest dimension rounded up to the next 10 feet), I don't know that it is necessary to adjust this further unless there are higher than normal ceilings (above 12 feet). Let us know if this helps.
You have a very good point, I have a graph that does the same but a person needs to be very careful. You are correct HGC
Great thinking and you can add these in when taking averages, Thank you for the input.
How many plugs per branch circuit usually in commercial? Then how many on residential branch circuit?
The number is about the same for both commercial and residential. However, residential is usually 15A. We recommend you review your electrical code book for specifics but typical is 4 to 8 general purpose receptacles per circuit.