Beautiful Darkness: Analysis of Ghost in the Shell 2
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- čas přidán 30. 12. 2015
- The basics of an excellent but underrated film, as far as I've been able to understand it.
Thanks for watching! To keep up with my current content, check out With Eyes East: / @witheyeseast - Krátké a kreslené filmy
ICYMI: June 2024, Ghost in the Shell 2 in theaters for 20th anniversary: gkids.com/films/ghost-in-the-shell-2-innocence/
After rewatching both the 1995 and Innocense back to back after recently finishing the Arise series, you come to appreciate the relationships between the characters more and the emotional impacts of it. For Batou, Motoko isn't just a friend, she was more akin to his significant other and you understand his grief even more in Innocense. I've seen it in real life, a man loses his wife, shuns out the world, stoicism/nihilism, and lives for nothing other than his work and dog. And him questioning the meaning of life and existentialism, like how Motoko did.
Batou is looking for answers to why Motoko left him, where she had gone and is she happy. And at the end when she says that she will forever be by his side gives him some closure and acceptance. In his own way, he had found some solace in continuing to live on. In some ways, I envy Batou because unlike in the real world you don't get closure directly from the dearly departed.
just a random tidbit: the parade scene is a stylized version of "Bajiajiang" or Eight Generals, 8 deities in charge of punishing sinners and demons. A folk religion in southern China and Taiwan, considered fringe (as opposed to main stream confusion beliefs). So the parade ties into the movie's theme of guardian angel, punishing "ghosts" and has the added benefit of being creepy as hell.
Good review. Innocence is underrated as hell - my favorite both of Oshii's work and of the larger GitS franchise.
It wasn't until my most recent time watching the film that I realized the significance of the final shot: Batou holding his dog is being juxtaposed with Togusa's daughter holding the doll (or even Togusa holding his daughter holding the doll). Is the dog Batou's companion, or merely a projection of himself, like the doll? Are children the same way, as Haraway suggested? Now there's a provocative final image.
Holy cow!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't realize that!!
this juxtaposition was a cool catch! I don’t think the dog represented a doll. in the discussion with the hacker KIM, they introduced the idea that animals were beings opposite to dolls/machines on the spectrum of “instinct vs logic”. machines /dolls represented “perfect beings of truth and logic” where as animals represented beings of “pure instinct”, where as humans represented an imperfect beings stuck between these two spheres of perfection. I don’t really agree with this dichotomy of instinct vs logic, and i think the movie itself was pointing out a flaw in this logic and the absolute distinctions we draw between beings. For example, Kim himself (a human turned machine) was constantly acting human (he has a twisted sense of humor and constantly lies). Yet, i do believe the movie was using this moment to establishing thematic resonance for what his dog could represent as another being that exists alongside humans.
I do think the batou’s relationship with the dog does represent an attempt to break away from the human cycle of simply imprinting humanity and it’s values onto other beings. Here we have a being that is physically distinct from humans and their “dolls” (i.e. machines humans create to imitate themselves). But batou doesn’t try to control of manipulate his dog in the way others would. in the scene before batou got hacked in the convenience store, ishikawa told batou to get dry food because it was more nutritionally balanced, but he continues to get wet food because that’s what she enjoys (at least from his perspective). not sure if she’s necessarily a companion but he attempts to make her a companion. and batou himself (like the major before him) represented someone who was on the verge of empathizing with machine/doll consciousness. so it seems that the final scene was more of a comment on humans (of togusa and his daughter) and how they tend to objectify and use other beings. Batou is, in that moment, empathizing with that doll, and observing how humans will continue to treat other beings as objects, (Togusa himself, does not consider the potential consciousness of the “dolls” or machines that he uses every day)
And perhaps there is still a disconnect between the consciousnesses of batou and his dog, but the difference is his approach to his dog and other beings. he doesn’t treat his dog simply as another being he can objectify.
It seems when faced with other beings and consciousnesses, humans tend to objectify them. we either manipulate and control every aspect of their existence (like with machines) or we regard them as inherently inferior (like with animals) with no consciousness, just pure “instinct”.
Batou represents a possibility of recognizing and respecting other beings and consciousnesses, even if we don’t fully understand or connect with them.
@@lilchinesekidchen well put.
I still think Patlabor 2 is Oshii’s magnum opus, but Innocence is a close second. It’s better than the 1995 original film.
@@lilchinesekidchen Oh that’s a great insight, thank you! I never really realized the importance and the symbolism of Batou’s dog. Come to think of it, the poster of the movie makes a lot more sense now-the dog is portrayed alongside a machine, on a plain white background.
yeah, i actually felt the same way. it felt very slow-paced but at the same time if you stopped paying attention for a second you'd get lost. it felt very strange to watch, really creepy at times, but enjoyable. It was something very different from the kind of films i ususally watch and i honestly expected something quite different, but I was not disappointed by the movie at all. change is good :)
I really enjoyed your analysis, it helped me put the missing pieces back into the puzzle.
Thank you! And yeah I agree with it being unusual, even in comparison to the original. Makes it a hard sell
This movie is one of my favorites. I've seen it multiple times and each time I discover something new about it. Your analysis of the films structure helps make it make more sense than before. I never picked up on the grief angle, but I did get the "lonely" bit. It makes much more sense that he's grieving the loss of the Major. I always felt is was something more complex but it was pretty basic. Can't believe I missed that.
Great perspective on a confusingly subtle Oshii world.
Hey, thanks!
How the hell am I just finding this video now??? You've perfectly encapsulated the core essence of Innocence. Excellently made video. GitS 2 is probably my favourite movie of all time.
Great video. Innocence is a run-away favorite of mine, glad to see some high-quality content about it.
I think the reason Innocence gets such a hard time compared to the original (even though I think Innocence is the superior film) is due to the sheer quantity and density of exposition in the film. Oshii is extremely bold in directly referencing his influences here, which in my mind is canon in the cyberpunk genre, but unlike the original this buries much of the plot in dense slow-rolling scenes which themselves are almost impossible to understand without taking the time to understand the references. Oshii seems to revel in this exposition, and layers it onto every scene using every cinematic trick he can, everything seems to stem from this obsession with placing the themes in context, while leaving the physical story as bare-bones as possible.
An example of this is when Batu picks up the one abnormal book in the murdered Locus Solus employees house; we are presented with Hans Bellmers doll; a key visual reference, the eroticism of Bellmers work translated into film via Oshiis own dolls (during the title sequence he outright copies at least 2 Bellmer sculptures). This book is then opened and we are presented with Korean text; telling us the next destination yet never explicitly stating it. Breadcrumbs, breadcrumbs all over the god-damn carpet! For some this is frustrating, unlike the original which is very clear in its direction; but for me I can't get enough.
I could go on for hours about Innocence, many words could be written about each scene, but I'll just surmise why I loved Innocence as a sequel and why I think it's a phenomenal film:
If GitS is a cinematic exploration of how our environment, far from being merely created by us, necessarily must change us: then perhaps it's fair to say that Innocence is a film about how our culture, rather than merely mirroring us, should act as a catalyst for propelling our view of the world forward. In that sense, just as the major transcended physical space so has the series and Oshii's exploration of the GitS universe.
+Leerill Thanks for the compliment -- and I definitely agree with that take
Yeah i think GitS is about biological evolution, and Innocence is about cultural evolution. I think Haraway speech is the axis of the movie, this human obsession for creating things look alike, which reminded me very much of the first movie when Puppetmaster said "What limits human evolution is their desire to stay the same."
I wish the cyberpunk genre wasn’t so underrated
🔥🙌🏽
You really said everything perfectly. The Kim’s mansion scenes is pretty terrifying for me. The plot building to that point is so good that I had to rewind twice for Kim’s mansion scenes. I didn’t notice about the grief theme, the darkness surrounding Batou after Major left
I had never noticed that almost every scene in the movie takes place at night. I love the themes in Oshii's work, they're so subtle but yet overpowering. They pervade the entirety of the movie but still remain elusive when you try and pin them down. Great analysis!
Thank you!
Funnily enough, despite my complete adoration of the original, Innocence still sits as my most favourite film of all time. Just the world building and the sheer brutality and realism of the story stand out from so many of its competitors.
It's also enjoyable to have a crime plot in which the characters essentially know that Locus Solus are at fault but have nothing more than circumstantial evidence, and it's their task to find a more damning piece to this puzzle. Whilst also keeping a couple of smaller twists and turns to keep the viewer on edge.
Nicely made analysis. I always liked Innocence more than the first movie. It has so much details and philosophy packed in. Everytime I watch it I grasp something new that makes me contemplate.
Btw they should do another GITS again with Oshii or Kamiyama. Arise was just unimaginative franchise milking.
+xeraph02 Thank you, I appreciate the compliment, and I 100% agree on the superior GITS film. That's nothing on the first one, but Innocence has this incredible somberness that few other media really matches. And yeah, I'd love to see those two continue the franchise -- no big fan of Arise, but I did like The New Movie quite a bit.
@NADS IQ brainlet
If you said that Arise is unimaginative franchise milking, then you will be disappointed with the new SAC series by Netflix
This is still the best anime 18 years on. So I am comfortable to say that this is the best anime of all time in this particular genre of it. Thanks for this video. It continues to be underrated in 2022 and I wish for people to talk more about it. It is simply amazing.
Also, the soundtrack of the PSX game is a delicious '90 acid techno that makes this universe perfect.
I watched innocence expecting a simple sequel. I did not expect the journey I went on watching this movie lol. I love it
Finaly lol, i find some one that actually likes Innocence more that the original 1995 movie like me, and for the same reasons lol. And you even use the best track from the SAC series at the end of the video, i love that music on episode 18 of SAC one, probably the most intence scene of the entire 1st series.
Agreed!
I just finished Innocence and I like it more because although they're both complex and philosophical, the first one feels like a work of art rather than a movie to be experienced, whereas the Innocence feels like a movie presented as a form of art, if that makes any sense. I can better follow along and understand what it's trying to say without having to think as hard; although neither movie makes this very easy lol
Great job! Loved your analysis, Innocence is a great film and so are your editing skills.
Thank you for the compliment!
I see you have a good channel, hardly any suscribers though. I found your video while seeking documentation for a video I want to do on cyberpunk, I'll be sure to link you in the description when I'm done. My channel is in Spanish but chances are I can forward a few English speaking people to your channel.
+Harrison Chute Not like I'm that big either, seems like quality analysis isn't as popular as it should in CZcams. Maybe you'll have to do an "ELDERS REACT TO GITS" or a "frame by frame analysis of the latest shitty superhero movie trailer". ;-) :-b
+Quetzal I really appreciate that! Yeah, I could try to wrangle up some elders, or maybe do an Everything Wrong with Ghost in the Shell 2 perhaps... :/
I have no marketing skills or sense of self-promotion. Guess I just depend on folks like you who enjoy the video and find it relevant to their own work. Looking forward to seeing your cyberpunk video!
Nor do I, my self promotion sucks. Your only problem is that you don't update often, only a few videos...but I really like it so far, you just need to keep pushing, suscribers will arrive eventually if you keep the quality level.
Not something I watch casually, it’s always an event. The cgi used to bother me a little bit, now I feel that it gives it a weight and a depth that enhances the experience.
Such a good analysis. I love videos like this because it really helps me understand why I love certain movies. Can’t think of a better word then haunting to describe this movie. It’s a haunting masterpiece and like you said, nothing like it. Also one of the few movies that completely transports me into that world and makes me forget about myself. This movie was actually my introduction to gits and remains my fav. Shame about the recent movie and Netflix adaptation...
I just came across this video essay and was excited to see what else you did and was a little sad there wasn't much more. You deserved more attention than you got.
Thank you! I'll try to pop in from time to time
I really hope this gets more attention, and that you do create more videos, this was very well done
Thank you!
''maybe we shouldn't try to recreate ghost in the shell, it's optimal as it is'' (15:00)
Hollywood: WE NEED MONEY
Oshii has a cool habit of making sequels that are way more complicated and interesting than the first film.
same thing happened with the patlabor 2 movie
Also, Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer
Understood. Thank you much. Batou is feeling bottomless loss after losing a friend was the extent of my takeaway from this fantastic story.
A great analysis, thanks a lot! I've been in love with Innocence for several years already, rewatching it at least a dozen times, but your review remains insightful! The thing you've missed is that it's heavily based on the noir tradition (as well as Blade Runner and - to a lesser extent - True Detective): it's something like a cybernoir movie, actually, with a lonely detective main guy grieving after a femme fatale. Mutatis mutandis, of course. And, for some reason, I'm feeling like the proper conclusion is deeper than yours (it's certainly related to faith), but I need to rewatch both movies again to tell why :)
Yeah. Noir is largely outside my FOV, though I might dispute you on the Major as femme fatale
Great analysis!👏👏👏
It really helped me to understand more of the plot points.
I actually found it better than Ghost in the Shell. The animation was a gorgeous spectacle to behold, especially in the theater. That scene, in the convenience store, where
Batou gets hacked, is incredible.
The philosophy is what really drew me in to this film. It was a deeper dive than Gits.
And I absolutely agree... it "haunts me" like no other.
The detail where you point out that the sun sets for Batou in the first one, and Is perpetually dark for him in Innocence, was mind-blowing.
Again, great analysis and thank you!
Amazing video! I wish more people can appreciate the Ghost In The Shell franchise
This video is amazing! I love the editing and writing.
Thank you for the analysis. I'm obsessed with wrapping my head around this anime.
Holy fucking Hell! Sorry for the cursing because I know it's not warranted or liked but you helped me find the movie I saw on tv once long ago!
Avalon is the gaming movie I forgot the name to because of my disease! I'm so grateful for you mentioning it while examining innocence! TYVM!
Dude you are awesome. Very methodic, structured ad concise, while netertaining and giving some random facts (Gabriel). Thank you so much, I learned a lot.
Nice piece. Well done.
woah thanks for this man! I am glad I watched this, now I understand the work of Oshii, ghost in the shell 2 is really underrated, everyone has to watch this!
Well made analysis. Keep it up!
Thank you!
Thanks for watching, everyone! If you want to keep up with current content, I'm posting videos about Asian cinema and culture at With Eyes East: czcams.com/channels/MGY4QhT3-10LB75Netg7Wg.html
Such a great video! Any more of them related to innocence would be much appreciated
Thanks for the great review, you helped me better understand one of my favourite movies.
Love this! I'd be so down for another anime analysis.
Why the hell this video doesn't have more views?!
Now that Netflix has Evangelion, all it needs is the entire Ghost in the Shell franchise and Paprika, and it would be the perfect acid trip of nightmares and self actualization, lmao
Also Kaiba
OMG what a great analysis of both films, and your right its a hard film to watch, but totally worth it, it is hunting and stays for you and even manages to change your way of thinking!
great video! i highly recommend the book "the animatic apparatus" by deborah levvit. it uses innoncence as its main point of reference and talks more about animation, media, dolls, etc..
Great videos, as other said you really should do more. Compared to others, you have some real insight.
This is an excellent movie. While Kusanagi's body is not in it which was initially disapointing, the movie is so good that i can ignore that point.
Subscribed. Amazing analysis
By the way- did someone notice how simmilar is the spider tank battle to Metal Gear Rex battle from MGS? Snake and Major even wear very simmilar clothes and use simmilar guns. Almost identical. Its too cloose to be coincidence. Looks like Kojima knows where to take its inspirations from
Oh, yeah, this is my all time favorite movie. Great analysis, I was waiting to see something like this in youtube.
+nexus prime Thanks! Looks like this video's been blocked for good on CZcams, at least in the US, so I'll have to try Vimeo and just link it here, I guess. But yeah, Ghost in the Shell 2 -- way underrated!
The narrative is not “convoluted”. It makes sense and it’s coherent.
You have a slight misunderstanding of what that word means. Convoluted may have a negative connotation in your experience, but it is not technically a negative and simply dotes something is complex or has many twists and turns. In this way the word has a similar meaning to “tortuous”
@@Fivehe sure.
Nice analysis, thanks for doing a good job on this. On to check Memories of Murder then...
+Aeon Zero Thank you! Yeah, Memories of Murder is great. I hope you like it!
The first movie is more of a post cyberpunk , but the second feels like a noir cyberpunk movie .
Nice Video. I didn`t like Innocence as much as the first one but now I can see more in it.
Thanks for making this.
Thanks for this - really enjoyed your analysis. I'll be back to see what you think of the live action movie once that lands. While i live in hope the latest trailers (and erased memory / revenge plot hints) are troubling.
I've been surprised how Ghost in the Shell-y it looks. Was assuming it'd be more generic Bourne Identity-style, or even Blackhat
my comfort video tbh
I've seen it 2 weeks ago! This is masterpiece stuff. One of my favorite movie of all time.
@Chinese Chucky my favorite ghost in the shell or movie in general?
@Chinese Chucky In no particular order... Sin city, Forest Gump, Pulp fiction, Fight club and Robin hood prince of thieves (I just like it 🤷)
@Chinese Chucky what about you?
@Chinese Chucky you choice are interesting! I didnt even knew fist of the north star was a thing.
I feel like they're different but they go together really well with no complaints
you should do more videos!
Thanks! It's a tough gig! :0
One word: Patreon.
Wow! That's the kind of breakdown which, in the early Nineties, would have been part of college coursework.
Thanks for this video. I loved the first one and it's still my favorite but I may have to revisit innocence after not finishing it the first time. Tougher to digest than the first.
Brilliant analysis
It makes me wonder what Major is up to in her new form. If she's technologically advanced enough to protect the goodness in Battou and in culture, for now, she surely must know that others with less good intentions may follow and wreak havoc from a technological order of magnitude of greater power. I'm like to imagine she is out there trying to figure out the next step for humanity and learning to embrace whatever that is, might be the next GiTS episode.
She wants everyone to become like her, but her memories are wanted by the Government, so so can't act as she wishes
Excellent analysis. I'd be curious to what you'd have to say about the 2017 movie, which I feel had more interesting themes than what people give it credit for, even if they weren't as deep or obfuscated as those found in the 1995 anime movie and its sequel.
Insightful analysis! I've always loved both Innocence and the original GitS but seeing this helped me appreciate the former more than I did before. Would be interested in hearing what you think of 'The New Movie'.
Thank you! That's so great to hear. I actually liked The New Movie quite a bit, and have been eager to revisit it on DVD. It was the moment I think I finally reconciled the Arise take on Ghost in the Shell, and I'm ready for more! I have a 'review' in podcast/blog form, if that sounds ok:
battlebeyondpodcast.com/2015/11/13/ghost-in-the-shell-the-new-movie/
What did you think of The New Movie?
@@harrisonchute1458 What did you think about hollywood live action movie ?
@@red6309 I really disliked it. Mostly, it was a matter of the script. They took something really beautiful and complex and tried to simplify it for us western dummos, I guess
great breakdown
Just watched this movie. Good analysis bro
I LOVE this analysis! Wow! Give me patlabors, akiras and more gits breakdowns❤
Innocence is basically about uncanny valley.
If you don't know what it is, google it.
Oh damn, from watching this I can see that the version that I watched had subtitles which were not quite right...
Great video by the way!
Ohh, yeah GITS2 has had a tumultuous release history, with a fo' real edition dropping I assume next year. Hopefully they'll have their subtitles straightened out then.
And thank you!
OMG thank you... this helps. It really got ahead of me around half way through. on top of that the subtitles on the version i downloaded are different to the one you reviewed. seemed like it kept cutting off the end of sentences.
I might have to re-watch it with the proper subs or eng dubbed.
Is there more to the "when faced with death. and a single string is cut" line?
Hmm. In all the translations I've experienced, which I think is just two, I haven't heard that line. But lucky for us they're gonna be putting out GITS2 again on DVD, so be sure to snap that up before it goes out of print again
Harrison Chute sweet!
Great stuff.
"It's as if by magic it's still good."
*Netflix trailer for Ghost in the shell 2024 releases*
".... never mind."
So i have just finished both movies do you recommend me to watch the stand alone complex? And what SAC is it a prequell to GitS?
Stand Alone Complex is remarkable, though tonally different. The movies emphasize meditation and visual symbolism, where SAC is the thinking fan's police procedural, with two investigations more complex/confusing than The Wire. In terms of prequel/sequel, it's outside the films' continuity, but I get the impression that the Major is slightly older/more mature in SAC than in the movies
I really like Innocence but it left me unsatisfied as to what happened to the Major and Program 2501
Unfortunately, that's how all Ghost in the Shell seems to end -- the Major disappears
We weren't good enough for her
Harrison Chute Yeah... Will we ever be good enough for her?
NEVER!
Harrison Chute Awww. But she's like my fav
Yeah. Mine too
I've been struggling forever to find a version with good subtitles that captures the different quotes from Milton, The Old Testament etc.. The one you showed clips from seemed to be excellent, which one is that? The American dvd release?
great video!!
can't wait to hear how your synopsis on the live action movie!!
In my opinion, from all the GIT franchise is my least favorite movie, a part of Arise. The 3rd season of GIT SAC, didn't see it yet.
But would be interesting a GIT 3 movie, but in Togusa perspective, we all know about his opinion about the enhancements, but during the story, something would happen to his family, and the only way for their to survive, would be throught enhancements, how he would handle that and change his view on those. Like that movie with Keanu, were decides to clone his family, after the car accident. Could be interesting and also very psicological and philosophical like always. Would he accept his family death or wouldn't he accepted, even it goes against his view of things.
And would make sense, the first movie was Motoko growth, second Batou growth and the third Togusa growth. And would expand on Batou's dog clone and the doll premise of second movie.
What's the theme that starts playing in the background at 15:15?
Beautiful
Can someone remind me what Kim's purpose/role was in the film? What did they accomplish from speaking with him? Jeez I have to watch this movie again now...
how the fuck does this channel not have millions of views if fucking good.
where you go? come back
Thank you so much for this I just finished binge watching gith 1 and 2 and I was still having trouble comprehending lol I also wanted to ask what do I watch next in the series is it standalone complex or arise
Definitely Stand Alone Complex. Arise is skippable
Harrison Chute thanks again for the analysis is was very helpful I'm gonna start binging sac today
Great work ! Please do one more for the Solid State Society !
Thank you! Hmm, as much as I love Solid State Society, I still don't understand it
Well done.
Ghost in the Shell 2 was an absolutely horrific abomination. I had seen the first movie and absolutely loved it and I had watched most of the actual ghost in the Shell series, I had never seen the second movie and my boyfriend asked me about what happened to the major after the first movie because he watched the first one with me one night. I was like "Oh there's a second movie that I've never seen let's watch it" and it was the worst abomination I've ever seen and the only reason we stuck it out was for the fact that I wanted to know how it ended...
thanks for this
The movie is so dreamy and vague, especially the parade scene, think I actually prefer it over the first film.
I enjoyed it a lot. Makes me the movie a lot more clear now.
I love all the GITS material and all but whenever I watch it...it makes me feel dumb. I had so much trouble keeping up with this movie lol. The Laughing Man story too! 😡
good job
is it vast or infinite? pick one
Awww he loves her
Ghost in the Shell 2 is fantastic. And 2d and 3d work well together.
yo what was that song at the end?
Did you ever find out?
Nice video, good analysis, it made me have a better understanding of the movie.
Thank you!
i just read some some scripture of hinduism , at that time i didn't understood the concept of certain thing talked about conciousness in a way that seemed like materialistic but atleast now i have some clarity what it was saying
Ghost in the shell 3
I need it
Sorry but people dont like to use their brain cells when watching movies anymore, it makes their head go owiee. The golden age of anime is dead :(
which, by the way, is vast and infinite...
nice touch
Great analysis. I wish they'd gone a step further, basically AI is now fully sapient and in the worst twist of fate, being molested and therefore rebelling and committing suicide.