F1 Engine Spark Plugs - A Closer Look - Ep 13
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- čas přidán 9. 04. 2023
- Ep 13 and a chat about the sometimes ignored humble little F1 Engine Spark Plug as well as many other details. Exported the video in mono so hopefully should fix audio for time being until the Mic arrives.
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Always stay curious,
Brian, - Věda a technologie
This and all your videos are great. The other day I was watching one of your other videos and you said something like "I don't watch any of the F1 races as I'm only interested in the engineering". This made me laugh when I realised I'm not the only "weirdo" (no offence meant) that thinks like this and that there's probably many of us like this.
I'd rather read about the PU as well.
Don't feel so bad about being a weirdo...and no offence taken...Patrick Head stated the very same...and admitted it many times. The drivers and locations are irrelevant when it comes to core engineering and what is presented infront of you...which this channel hopefully conveys to some degree.
That’s why I love F1, the engineering is amazing.. it made me even more interested when they switched to the current V6 hybrid engines. The racing isn’t great but engineering is cutting edge.
@@sjb3460As with F1, nascar and Indy car have had some amazing engineered rule interpretations to give a slight advantage. It’s all amazing. But you’re right, everyone on same equipment takes something away from the sport. Theres good arguments for his but the main one against it is we don’t get to see engineers work their magic with the rules.
@@Shoorit I'd kinda agree and don't agree...I feel the modern power unit is not as pure as the older n/a or even turbo units...beautiful engineering yep...but hard beat just the crank nose output in terms of simplicity. Thanks for watching R... B.
It's just mind boggling strange that this guy have 3000 subscribers.
So informative and complete lack of bullshit.
Just pure knowledge and entertainment.
I hope CZcams algorithm is gonna pick up and put this channel where it belongs
Not enough comedy and cute pets I'm guessing!! Sure who cares...we'll rock on!
We worked with building the high enough voltage ignition systems that they blew plasma not a spark which made it advantageous to use surface Gap plugs when trying to make high-revving small block engines. We realistically were trying to grab 1% from everywhere. We were not kidding ourselves. Glass beaded(great) surfaces versus polished (not so good) on the old homemade air bench 50 years ago.
Just came across your channel in my recommendations, I'm looking forward to catching up on your content! I was also surprised when I read you were from Ireland as well, I'm from Louth myself. I've always loved engines too and studied racing engine design so I'm certain your videos will be right up my alley!
Arron, what's the Craic...yea Mayo...Irish F1 antics are thin on the ground surely...hope they don't bore you to death! All the best, B.
@@EngineeredtoWin also the first video iv caught of yours too! im English but im proud to have a bit of Irish Blood in me :') never the mind you have just earned another subscriber and will be catching up on your backlog too!
Im glad you mentioned how deadly the high voltage side of ignition systems are.
When GM started with "High energy ignition" in 1980 (the coil integrated into the distributor cap) they warned us mechanics that we could no longer get too near sparks as they had become strong enough to kill. I can remember as a kid being able to grab the plug wires on a 9N Ford tractor with no ill effects.
Mazda rotary engines have been using surface discharge plugs for decades. Two reasons. The area available is very small because the apex seal swipes past the spark plug hole, plus they need very cold plugs because the intake cycle occurs on the other side of the engine and the plug is constantly in a compression ignition combustion cycle.
Yep...
Nice to see the differences and a demo!
When I crewed on my friend nitro funny car, our engine used MSD PROMAG 44 AMP MAGNETO!!!! what a flame thrower!!😂😂😂😂
Most in depth knowledge about spark plugs ever heard
Knowing how to disassemble a spark plug is useful when you want to check compression and the correct thread adapter has likely escaped on a fender lip.
Audio is much better and mono Brian, top shelf cheers again 👍
Fascinating.👍
Be sure and watch the other videos too...as to me this one is very boring and basic! Thanks and hello from Ireland, Brian,
Thanks! Now I understand Hot/ Cold plugs - what it means. Before... not exactly. :)
Excellent!
First video of yours I watched and I enjoyed it. You might be interested to know that in an aircraft engine every other spark plug from the distributor has the opposite polarity. This is because spark is created from a permanent magnet rotor and the polarity changes every 180 degrees. I was hoping you would talk about the new thin wire plugs and how they work to prevent them from getting too hot in service. I had such plugs in my Buick Century and they lasted over 30O000 kilometers. I changed them at about 200000 and they didn't make a difference so I only changed two (the easy ones) and left the remaining ones until I scrapped the car due to rust and a transmission failure. One reason that plugs may have changed in style because of the change of the combustion process and the very sophisticated inlet swirl introduced to improve mixing efficiency. Thanks again for the excellent video. Brian
Some nice insight there in the F1 plugs!
I have conducted tests regarding different plug designs, indexing basically have no difference at all. However ground straps and too large center electrodes are definite obstruction for the flame propagation.
I can imagine those F1 plugs offered best flame propagation aswell, hence why they ran them like that without ground straps. Likewise modern iridium 0.4mm center electrodes along with the shaved ground strap where the arc is dead centered and not moving around over a 2.5-3.0mm center electrode. The combustion consistency is much greater in terms of from where the flame propagation starts so it doesnt differ every combustion cycle and therefore get a few more horsepowers. Most noticable on part-throttle response as you have the transition of engine load.
I measured the most as 8hp at the wheel hubs(very nicely calibrated high resolution dyno) with finding the right plugs with the perfect heat range to not take too much heat out of the combustion chamber. But then again every engine and scenario is different.
I don't think "clocking" plugs does anything but I do think if the spark is shrouded by either combustion chamber design or design of the hook electrode that can make a difference.
Ngk has a 471ish page reference guide.
Apparently I have “semi” surface gap spark plugs that look a hell of a lot like this.
Like the multi ground plugs of old.. but with cut back grounds so they’re not interfering with kernel formation and the electrode itself is flat to the insulator.. wild.
They’re BKR6EQUP, but anyway it’s for a 650i bmw v8 that I’m using in my GM v8 lol because tapered seat suck.
3:57 I'll attest to that long life. I have a set of Bosch Platinum+4 in 3.9 Chrysler V6 that have over 250k miles on them installed in 1999.
15:26 one other note is Formula engines are rarely gonna run longer than eight hours.
Brilliant vid thanks for this
awesome explaining
Imagine if you could coat the piston or the combustion chamber,or both with a coating. Using a microwave to spark the entire chamber at once. The entire mixture would go off at once. Huge power.
This is my first watch of your videos and I like your style spark plugs are important and interesting.
You have a lot of catching up to do!!
@@EngineeredtoWin isn’t that always the way
A small Faraday cage might work to isolate the high voltage system & the RFI it causes, to use your USB camera.
Took some plugs out to check on a mercury 25hp 2 stroke outboard yesterday ,these were the type of plug used 😎 appeared to be a very strong spark!
After 200k miles all my cars have this style plug as well
A 30 min video about spark plugs? Seriously? Hell yeah I want to watch this!!! What else would I want to do right now?
Do you have any F1 intake valves? Are you going to make a video about it?
I'm curious about the seat angles and radiuses and all that good stuff.
Very cool.
CLOSER PLEASE!!!
The multi tangs make it closer to the F1 discharge type spark plug. .. surface area potential. ; ]
: )
I had to buy a special socket of the Mac man for the Renault clio plugs a few years ago they look a lot like that, the Ford KA used to have taper seats nightmare they used to seize in a treat on a road car, that first plug looks like a good old Golf GTI plug or a I 5 Audi, interesting how the manufactures have gone down the F1 route
Ford Ka i havent encountered but that dang Triton 5.4 three valve v8 they had.....
Dude, ya gotta have sadistic malice to make a spark plug with a smooth machined surface what contacts tge cylinder head that due to the dissimilar metals if aluminum and steel welds itself directly into the cylinder heads.
So much so that there are several Ford removal kits available. Basically ya end up breaking the ceramic bits out of the plug, then reverse threading the remaining material or using a bolt extractor.
They took a 30 minute job and added the "Oops, now ya need cylinder head reconditioning." Potentially, anyways.
Go ahead on and google the infamous scrote kick of a spark plug Ford done vomited out.
Richard Holdener did spark plug clocking and gap testing on engine dyno. Results showed no difference in power.
Also coil voltage/power makes no difference in engine performance.
The leaner the mixture,and high compression require more power to fire the plugs.
At 17;50 Im picturing the bolts touching way away from the plug.
On the piston even.
: )
Interesting how sensitive some two stroke engines are to spark plugs.
Actually Mono audio is most often preferred for voice recording, stereo is more for environment recording.
You could perhaps try to record your voice in mono and everything else in stereo, although that would require 2 mic setups.
And your video is actually in stereo, you can hear a difference when switching to mono
on youtube viewers mostly care about if the levels are adjusted right rather than if something is stereo or not.
At 8:20, You remind me of how spray paint can not go in to tight corners.
Indeed...and an important consideration when designing machinery that isn't dipped or ecoated!
so the 2 newer types of sparkplug ark directly to the cylinder head? thats a brilliant idea, i bought an old 1.3 litre 8 valve fiesta as my first car and decided it needeed a service as the oil looked and had the consistency of mud,.. decided to change the sparkplugs too.. and after the second snapping in half and leaving the thread in the engine i decided the last 2 where running fine in the first place... hahha
fucking dealer had been leaving it on show with the bonnet up as ther was a nasty dent in the bonnet and the engine bay looked clean.from the rain hah. fecking rusted the tops of the plugs though there the rain pooled though, he well had me over, payeed a £1000 for that and had to scrap it for £50 once the clutch went
Not taken for granted. Thank-you . Btw, what about Rain-X on the windshield, ,,, ?
Always! And visor, just to be sure!!
I wish you had shown an old rebuildable plug, but that was totally uneeded with your great production.
Have one of those it came from a model T picked it up in early 80s
Crazy thing with how much power gets dumped into spark plugs on some high performance engines in top fuel dragsters etc more closely resemble arc welders with how much power they are putting thru them
On another note, all your other videos have subtitles available which I rely on heavily (too many loud racecars over my lifetime) but this one does not. I'd imagine it's CZcams that gets to make that decision?
Roll your cursor over the video and look to the bottom right about the 6th from the right is closed captions. Hope this helps :)
@@BotsWeekendCovers Now that's really weird. I watch this type of stuff on my LG 65in Smart TV and all the apps are Apple based (as opposed to Android based). I checked all his other videos and yes they have CC subtitles which I always use. This video did not have the CC icon hence my post. I double checked this just now after seeing your post and now the CC icon is there. Go figure.
@@BotsWeekendCovers Thanks for that.
Probably go faster if you waxed your car…..😂….love your work. Cheers
Interesting look at F1 plugs, only one thing you didnt mention , what is the cost of one of those little beauties ? 😬
From memory approx 130euro...
I’m shocked that F1 have ever used Champion plugs. I’ve always found them to be absolutely terrible. I’ve had lots of brand new Champion plugs fail straight out of the packet. Their weakness is generally where the top HT terminal joins the centre electrode, inside the insulation, they tend to corrode internally & go open circuit, the corrosion forming a high resistance.
I’ve always recommended my customers don’t use them, which is not always popular as I restore vintage equipment & many don’t like the idea of putting NGK into something like a classic British bike.
by the way, that NGK doesn’t have a resistor inside. It would have a letter “R” in the code if it did. I think most plug manufacturers do this.
Also, taper seat plugs were very popular in some older fords & many American cars, I’ve never liked them myself, damn things are always tougher to get out.
Great video, I’ve subbed to your channel, looking forward to watching some more.
Thanks for the great comment! Honestly I feel the same about champion plugs. They caused me hell over the years with exactly what you describe. Especially on older cars with no undercovers below engine bay. Also used to cause major issues with the metal shielded ht leads on the mk2 golf gtis...often times removing the RF shields was the only way to prevent arcing. Interesting about taper seat plugs...I must point out...as mentioned before I'm not a mechanic so the only stuff I've seen has been on my own cars and the general familiarity with what's popular...thanks for the sub and have a good weekend, B.
From my limited experience their race plugs seem to be o.k. perhaps the funding comes out of the marketing budget. The plugs they sell to the public aren't so good.
We used Champion plugs in our Super Stock Hemi's and won the U.S. Nationals and set the SS/AA record...
I used Champion plugs on my supercharger Rover K in my Elise for many years. They worked really well.
I cant find a combination fuel injector & spark plugs, they were made in south America, ive seen patents.. but i think I make have to make some from off the shelf parts,
Any suggestions?
Nothing off the shelf yet. There's a good r+d article on research gate however. Combines a DI injector with a plug. Only issue I see is plugs wear out...injectors, not so much.
Kawasaki used surface gap spark plugs back in the early 70's with their cdi ignitions on alot of their 2 strokes.
rotary engines also use surface gap since the rotor swipes across it
I’ve seen surface gap plugs with mica insulation, they’ve got to be from the 1920s, possibly early aero engine?
Must’ve been quite a hot magneto to fire it.
Can I ask a question? Is the combustion chamber so shallow because its an oversquare and high compression ratio? And i assume you don't need different air gaps in f1 as road cars?
Yes and yes, and they probably optimise the chamber for gas flow around the valves, rather than the plug, but in modern F1 it may be different with the precombustion chamber plugs that shoot fire!
@@alexjohnward thank you for the answer and the question you created. Didn't know there was a fire shooting sparkplug. I shall investigate 😆
I would love to see a precombustion chamber, the whole idea of shooting a flame into the mixture instead of spark igniting primary mixture seems like a much more effective means of lightning off.
As pointed out they look much like diesel prechamber units...trying to get my hands on one!
Im also interested in those pre-chamber designs. F1 had a tech video floating around talking about those when they became commonplace.
Honda were doing that with lean burn engines in scooters in the 1980's. I think they were only in Belgium though as that was the main distribution centre for Europe. You may be able to find old magazine articles on it from various British motorcycle magazines?
Honda used it in the civic engines in the seventies
There are pre-chamber spark plugs used in some gas engines.
Had no idea they ran a polar gap. Boat motors ran them for years but got away from them. NGK is dropping the production of several models.
Hey Brian. Tnx for the vid👍🏻 ("subd" immediately!) You shouldn't be to alarmed about viewers telling you this and that, i mean don't feel obligated to explain , opinions are out there by the thousand!
Soo how did you come by an f1 spark plug? Not an of the shelf product exactly... Cheers from🇸🇪
Ooh! Almost forgot! Don't know if i'am right or wrong, but i've heard somewhere, that a plug is actually designed, to have the spark jump the other way(since "Autocars" in the stone age where grounded to positive(that's the red cable..for all you millennials..😉)) right or wrong?
917k flat with tiny flat tang for clearance.
Interesting video. Voltage doesn't flow, current does. Electromagnetic Interference EMI is emitted, not Electromagnetic Force EMF.
Yes..I guess technically RFI in this case...one thing I am not is an Electronics Engineer! Thanks for the comment Ian,
Pole position comment.
P2 you win this time mate
Ferrari position comment
How did you seporate the electrode from the ceramic?
Did you watch all the video? I only removed centre electrode assembly... not the electrode from the ceramic itself,
@@EngineeredtoWin I'll rewatch.. I was more listening .. was getting ready for work ..
My car burns a little bit of oil, about 1L every 5000km, the spark plug is a bit contaminated because of the oil, if I put a hotter plug to burn those contaminations, could I create preignition because of the hotter plug ?
Yes...and this is why one should not do that
Could you please give the two F1 Champion plug part numbers
Nick, the CA Tapered seat plug is - ''304-110-13A 1M - Made in the USA'' The longer and sectioned plug, from the CK V10 is ''304-839/3C8 - Made in the USA'' They're not showing anything with a quick search on Google, perhaps you have a Champion List to hand. All the best, Brian,
Water pump would be neat to see
On the way,
They have a gap, therefore they are not surface discharge. Google it ...
To repurpose plugs in diesel burners , waste oil burners. That's why you'd want to remove them
So they don’t use NGK-D8EA’s .. like everything else.
Hey now!! I bet they never let you down!
Coil on Plug
Ya...if it's a normal car with individual pencil coils...in F1 it's called a variety of things. The pencil coils are an all in one rail assembly coil over pack unit. So it is normally called a coil over pack...or coil over plug pack. But it's irrelevant really.
btw iPhone camera SE Gen 1 is much better than USB Microscopes
Cop coil on plug (not pack)
Yep...screwed up...however, the tj/ca setup is all 5/4 cops made as one unit and incased in CF and called a pack...hence terms.
31 min.
Mate, could you spend a few more bucks and get your self a decent lapel mic so that the audio is a lot clearer... DO NOT depend on the inbuilt mic of you video camera or phone camera, they are pathetic. RODE make awesome WIFI mics check them out.
Covered many times in the bunch of sequential vids...also mentioned in description, mic on hand now...Thanks,
Spark plug for an Old Mercury outboard motors that's nothing new matter of fact you probably copied it from Mercury
Exactly the comment I forecast during the video...
It's not EMF it's RFI ....
Not True, emf are NOT resistant spark plugs, spark doesn’t dance around on rfi
Is not RFI just a subset of EMF?
Those F1 plugs are designed wrong! They should mount in like a diesel injector but be asymmetrical and mount only one way. The outer metal part should be D shaped and pressed into the head from the chamber side like seat. This will bias the spark in one direction along with the tumble direction.