Comparing ALL of 40k's Weapon Abilities
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- #Warhammer40k
More TacticalTortoise: linktr.ee/tacticaltortoise
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:58 Extra Attacks, Pistols, Blast, Hazardous
02:12 Assault, Indirect, Heavy
04:44 Rapid Fire, Melta
06:02 Anti, Lance, Precision
11:23 Torrent, Twin, Ignore Cover
15:27 Sustained, Letha, Devastating
20:35 Outro - Hry
We need a special video about “weird” weapon keywords.
Like leagues of votann “conversion” and eldar keyword “linked fire” on the main gun of “fire prism”
You are looking for "Linked Fire" on the Fire Prism.
Conversation also shows up on forgeworld knights
Deathstrike missile launcher, my beloved
Torrent is actually a 50% increase in damage on a model that would otherwise be 3+ to hit.
I misspoke in the vid - you're totally right 😉
Can you explain that for me? Intuitively 3+ means failing to hit 1/3 of the time, but I must be missing something
@@Cheese1master certainly. Suppose for the sake of easy math we have a weapon that fires 9 shots. If you hit on 3+ that's an average of 6 hits. However if it's a torrent weapon you get a full 9 hits. 9 is 50% more than 6, so your damage has increased by 50%.
@@ElTheJono Thanks!
I didn't know that bit about the order of operations for dev wounds. Super helpful because I plan on running some Harlies with Troupe Master.
precision on a melee weapon is so good. Ive run into multiple instances to carve out a buffing character. Skarbrand with precision is a funny thing to see. Like a scalpel mounted on a steamroller.
Often folks forget Epic Challenge strat let's you Precision as well.
@einrauser6103 I know, I had to be reminded, which is how skarbrand got precision, and I got an easy assassination secondary.
Psychic so useless, it wasn't even mentioned.
Its literally a detriment to have psychic.
Dued forgot the best one... Psychic... that was a joke.
"That was a joke"
Just like Psychic!
that was the best comeback you could have given. 😂
Goes right below Hazardous.
Can confirm, full rerroll to hit(farseer skyrunner) combined with ignore cover (warlock skyrunner) and lethal hits (shroud runner) and sustained 1 (windriders) will make anything concerned! 😂
Torrent weapons will always feel wonky to me. I understand and think it’s a good thing that they have limited range and impact for balance reasons. But it will always feel weird knowing that flamethrowers are some of the most lethal weapons ever devised and they have spectacular range in real life. Realistically the Land Raider Redeemer would have like a 36” range and inflict battleshock, the shaken debuff, disable anything not in armor and inflict huge hit debuffs to any armored vehicles. There’s a reason flame projectile weapons are considered war crimes
Yeah... 36" range on the land raider redeemer flamers would indeed be a war crime in terms of game balance 😅
I mean it IS devastating against Guardsmen. Marines, Eldar, Necrons, and even Orks would likely almost entirely ignore flame based weapons either because of their armor, shield technology, or raw toughness. Or any combination of the 3.
@@oblivionfan345Tony Necrons maybe because “technology”. Everything else would depend on if power armor is airtight with respirators and whether the onboard computers are liquid cooled so they don’t immediately overheat. If SM have Oxygen reserves in their armor they still have to worry about their tanks overheating which could cause a rupture and a compressed oxygen explosion. Orks would probably burn just as fast as Humies if I had to guess about their physiology. If any of the above don’t have isolated oxygen reserves then they would asphyxiate in seconds if you assume no promethium enters your lungs and incinerates you from within. Remember the no. 1 cause of death in fires is smoke inhalation. Fire is by far the most lethal weapon you could put in a soldier’s hands.
@@oblivionfan345Tony just saw the shield technology bit, that up in the air on what it lets in lol. I always forget 40K has void shields
Stuff like this is SO GOOD for beginners bro. Thank you. More!!!!!
Seriously, these breakdown videos of mechanics like this are really great. I'm new, I put them in while I'm driving and slowly get more and more familiar w rules and 40k mechanics, it's really helpful
And that is why a thousand Sons are such an effective Army in the shooting phase. Because for almost no effort aside from spending cabal points and command points, you can effectively give the entire unit (Infernal Master + 10 Bolter Rubrics) The following keywords... sustain hits from the infernal Master, devastating wounds from the Army ability, psychic from a stratagem, and reroll to hit and wound from a stratagem, then while being within Magnus the Reds Aura they are getting plus one to the hit and wound for all psychic weapons.
Unless your unit has built in Feel No Pains, I would find it very hard that any unit survives that doesn't have a Terminator profile (T5, Sv2+, 4++, W3) or better.
Anecdotal..., I just played against a game Grey Knights and this unit single handling killed 10 Terminators in 2 different rounds of shooting, one with Magnus Support, and one without (which surprisingly the round without had also loss about 4 Rubrics, but my Infernal Master did roll a 12 on shot generation which greatly made up for the missing guys).
Torrent / Twin-Linked / Dev Wounds all in S Tier, as they should be. Which is why my Flamestorm Aggressors with the Gravis Capt is my MVP unit for Firestorm Assault.
DRIVING to Dallas Texas....
No thank you
Could be worse could be driving to Houston
See you at DreamHack! And welcome to Dallas !
There should be a limit to only being able to use one special rule for each roll of the dice. No Getting Lethal & Sustained or Devastating and Lance etc.
Heavy is something I find new players having issues with. The amount of times I have to tell them "if this unit doesn't move, it can't target anything. Not shooting the unit you need to do at least chip damage to is worse." The consistent response I hear is "This unit sucks... Why even take them."
Anyone else have similar interactions?
I'm a little confused about what you mean, can you explain?
Anti infantry plus precision is useful, particularly in combat patrol
Honestly you want anti whatever and dev wounds. That makes those wounds all crits.
Anti-Character is even better, since if you're doing precision, you're targetting a character.
Given how the community treats it, you'd think precision would be beneath hazardous.
Great video
As a Guard player and devoted Chimera user having Lethal hits on S3 (12 Attacks), S4 (6 attacks)weapons and my heavy bolter S5 (6 attacks) plus my favourite ogryn firing deck S5 (12 attacks) makes that mobile bunker a hell of a threat is remained stationary and some AP advanage gaines from some source
How can you tell if a weapon profile is good? Also how can you tell what a weapons ideal target is? I understand the Strength vs Toughness concept, but with all the other stats and platforms they sit on its pretty confusing. No where I can find does a great job explaining unit loadout choice. Example Cadian Shock Troops, what is an optimal loadout or why would you choose a one weapon over another. I'm also not a math guy, so seeing a table with damage percentages doesn't exactly help.
its A dice game so abilities that can stack and improve the results are better.
So the way the math works out, all else being equal, bonuses that affect rolls later in the "hit -> wound -> save -> Feel No Pain" chain are stronger. Effects or attributes that affect things further up the chain have their effects diluted by subsequent rolls.
But all else generally is not equal, because many models don't even have an FNP roll, or have terrible armor saves, or more than one wound to lose. So what you want to look for is weapon profiles that cut through whatever the primary defensive characteristics of the unit are (a lot of bodies, a high toughness, a good save, a lot of wounds per model, etc.), while slightly favoring things like high AP or devastating wounds, and make sure you take a wide enough spread of profiles that you'll be able to match scissors to paper.
I find that typically it's easiest to think of this in terms of like "anti infantry, anti heavy infantry, and anti-vehicle" - Infantry has a lot of bodies, low armor save, ~3 toughness, 1 wound. Heavy infantry has medium number of bodies, high saves, ~5 toughness, 2-3 wounds. Vehicles have 1 body, high saves, and minimum 8 toughness, and assloads of wounds.
Also, www.unitcrunch.com/ is great for things when you're like "uh, wait though, these both seem decent, which one is better at X?"
Trevvy my boy, regarding precision you mentioned that the defensive buffs that are granted to a bodyguard unit from the character are persistent for the remainder of that activation, but are offensive buffs (like a +1 wound for example) still active when that unit swings back if that character was killed?
Nope; they only persist thru the attacks if the unit that killed the character
Let's go! Nurgle Bless!!
Rerolls be good, I guess
I think rating hazardous as just bad because the effect is bad seems a bit meaningless. Often hazardous weapons come with a normal and a hazardous profile. Plasma pistol gets+1 strength, 1 extra AP and +1 damage. That is an awesome buff. Against marine scouts that means +1 to wound, they don't get a save unless they have cover and an attack going through kills a model instead of just wounding.
Arco flagellants get 50% more attacks (2 extra). That's huge in many scenarios and you expect to lose 1-2 models for it which is quite ok.
If you don't want to risk the loss of 3 wounds or a model then you can just use the normal profile and even if you risk it, it's only a 1/6 chance. Ofc some weapons are just hazardous without a normal profile and that is a lot worse
I know that not judging the abilities in a vacuum is a lot harder though given the sheer amount of datasheets in this game
Its nice to see even after data slate update and erratas Firestorm Assualt is still nice👌🏼. Vulkan Lives🔥🦎
Firestorm slaps 🔥🔥🔥
I would swap assault and indirect. Indirect is fun if you are using the 2 units in the game that have the AP and BS to actually do anything with it.
Assault in the other hand is a massive boon to any unit. Even with just a few more inches of movement your possibilities to get incrementally better positions on the table are high and it will stack trough out the game to like 15 inches of extra move while shooting.
I don't think you mentioned the interaction between Anti and Dev wounds. It can get pretty gross (Drago vs Bloodthirster)
Nice presentation. I always enjoy your rules symposium style videos. It always results in a greater clarity of understanding than before I viewed it. Thanks!
I disagree on Hazardous. This should be S tier but only for Orcs cause it fits them perfectly :)
Rapid fire should be A tier in my opinion. You double your damage output (and factions like Guard make this go higher with FRFSR)
Rapid Fire just becoming extra shots with no penalties is a big boost.
Twin linked is s tier? In our group its considered one of the worst key words. Give me twice as many shots, over rerolling wounds
Wounding is harder than hit rolls right? So wound rerolls seem better no?
I disagree with precision for one simple fact - Technomancer + Wraith
Dev Wounds should be the top of S tier. Its so strong that it is outright broken, even now that its just ignoring armor saves instead of doing Mortal Wounds. In some armies it turns units into Swiss Army Knives.
A 5 man Thousand Sons Rubric Marine with 5 flamers and enough Cabal Points to make the Flamers Psychic turns what should be just an anti-Infantry unit into an anti-*everything* unit. Dev Wounds lets 90 point Aeldari jetbikes do 1000+ points worth of damage in 3 turns.
Go ahead, ask me and my burnt out Leman Russ corpses how I know.
Edit: So it turns out my opponent cheated and you can’t make Warpflamers get Dev wounds. That loss dropped me about 4 places at a GT…
So um...
Warpflamers can't be Psychic
@@TacticalTortoise They can’t become Psychic?
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I was cheated out of a victory in a game at a GT.
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My opponent told me he could make his Warpflamer Psychic. He then used it to kill a Leman Russ with 10ish Dev Wounds (it had already been hurt by the leader’s power.) If he hadn’t killed my tank that round I would have wiped that squad and taken his back line.
How about that
Thousand son regular sorcerer gets lethals, sustained 3 and dev wounds. Easily the most juiced character model under 100 pts
Eh, he's okay
Lethals is actively bad in TS since they have so many critical wound effects
Hazardous is so fun though 😅
Twin linked sucks! It is only good on melee weapons. A twin heavy bolter in 9th ed could do a maximum of 12 damage, but in 10th can only do 6. It really hurts SM armies because of the amount of twinlinked they received. Just look at the brutalis drednaught. Every weapon it is equipped with is twinlinked. Where it really hurts is the multimeltas its equipped with. Losing out on a possible 16 damage on just that one weapon. If they reverted all twinlinked weapons back to their original number of attacks, lost the wound re-roll, but you had to reduce the overall damage they inflicted by half, it would still be an upgrade.
I’d disagree with rapid fire, being able to roll 30+ lasgun dice rather than just 7 or 8 is what makes or breaks the imperial guard. Statistically broken imo and should be a tier
You got devestating wounds wrong, a feel No pain does Not save against dev wounds, ask Custodes players
Feel No Pain absolutely saves against Devastating wounds
The issue with Custodes is that a lot of their FNPs only trigger against *Mortal* wounds, which Devastating no longer deals (if you're using the dataslate)
FNP saves are for any source of wounds.
Precision so op needs a nerf lmao
Precision too stronkkkkkk
dev wounds need removed from the game. and I think we all know anti walker is by far the best ability in the game
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