Would I still use PHP in 2023?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- The top languages for web app creation include, PHP, JavaScript, Python, Java, C# ... and perhaps Ruby.
Which one would I choose in 2023?
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#mentoring #php #phplaravel #unclestef #javascript #nodejs
I "left" PHP in 2016/17 for the react/node hype train. It was cool at first but after dealing with multiple frameworks and package.json nonsense and then huge debates about whether we should use yarn over npm, then arguing back to npm once we shifted to yarn ... omg, PHP was not bad at all 😂
It was hell😢
Everyone is using frameworks now anyway - including with PHP, Ruby etc. It's just that Javascript has more frameworks than those other languages. But basically everyone is just hiding behind a big bloated framework these days and not actually writing any real code.
@@illegalsmirf Most of what I (we) do now is managing packages, frameworks, versions, etc. It's more maintenance of existing infrastructure vs actually adding any good features. Here and there features are added, but it's mostly just rewriting the same stuff over and over again.
Yeah... i remember how composer was fun....
@@illegalsmirfit’s not hiding - they make our job easier and allow for the maintenance of very large applications..
I have been using PHP since 5.4...loved it then, love it now
Thanks uncle Stefan, i was struggling to decide backend tech for my own bussiness, first i choose .net core for i know C# but i was looking for more quick and easy solution like php. Decisions taken thanks to you.
Glad I could help!
Let us know how it goes.
I believe the best advantage of PHP 8.1+ is JIT support for ARM. I have found that the AWS Graviton is a good bang for the buck and performant. I worked on a small-mid sized project and saved about 65-70% the application servers just by upgrading to PHP 8.1 and Graviton 2(The application could perform better with 2 fewer servers). It was very impressive.
I started with PHP in 2002. Been working as a web developer on and off for the past 20 years. I've use PHP and NodeJS for years and both have their pros and cons. However as of PHP 8.x I find PHP took the lead again. All the things that gave NodeJS stand out because PHP lacked those features, is now part of PHP and more. The issue? PHPs reputation is still tainted from the issues it had between 2006-2015. Kids these days educate themselves on social media, and programming memes are in an endless loop of hammering on PHP and hailing NodeJS as if it was 2012.
PHP has come a long way, personally I wouldn't learn it for breaking into the industry as most jobs don't seem to require it except the few web based roles I come across that leverage it or any postings tied to WordPress development. Yeah PHP's reputation has always taken a hit since its dark days, I would just learn it on the job if needed later (I know some PHP actually but don't use it now).
I learnt php in less than a month and the OOP aspect in another month. i currently use PHP to build APIs for my Saas Application.
hey Stefan. Thanks for your content. great!
Glad you enjoy it!
Hey Stef, these videos are invaluable, and I just want to say thank you for all the incredible content! Much love to you and yours! ❤
Glad to hear you find the videos useful. Thanks for letting me know.
@@unclestef8239 Interesting handle, are you the real Stef too?
People arguing about which language is better.. Honestly, who cares? I have chosen the one which gives me the best job opportunities aka the most money. The language is just a tool to achieve a goal.
So what language did you choose? I'm a senior PHP dev and recently thinking about growing my stack, I'm curious about Go and Shopify..
@@TricoliciSerghei I started with C# but then moved to Javascript and web development because it had the most jobs. Now writing Javascript on the backend as well.
@@WhyoakdbiI see, hope it's going well for you, thanks for the answer. Cheers!
Hi Stef, I agree with you. It's a good relief someone with your experience tells the truth to the community. I'm a PHP developer since version 4. The greatest changes in PHP came with version 5.6 and was THE revolution inside PHP community. So, any further changes surpassed whatever expectation to a 6 version - so they jump into 7 directly, that is what I remember I read those days in though there is another better history built up later. Another big step came with 7.4 and the last one greater change comes with PHP 8 but for me specifically with 8.2.
All the changes from PHP7 onwards have been about making PHP more like Java with deeper and deeper layers of OOP boilerplate and abstraction.
They were developing PHP 6 and then Hack language appeared. It was a wake-up call for PHP, realizing just how bad it was performing, compared to its potential.
They stopped development on PHP 6 and started almost from scratch on the underlying engine for PHP 7.
This was also the beginning og all the modern features we now see in PHP.
PHP is easy to deploy. On point; most relevant info.
Great advice as always. I really enjoyed PHP as a beginner.
And you roasted Ruby once again 😭😂
Nothing as tasty as a Ruby roast!
Nowadays i use PHP and Python along with xml and mysql for the backend. Php for building the web, and python for the websockets. yeah both are simple to use, although i dont like the indentation of python.
can you please explain how websockets are used in python
Explain what web socket is please😅
@@YtResolver imagine two users connected to your web server and the first user want to send a text message to the second web user. if your web server doesnt have a websockets server the second user wont be able to get the message immediately unless he by chance refresh the web page in that instant. so the websocket server is the only mechanism that can send data between web users immediately, very important for chat applications, live video games... and anything that needs live comunication.
Quick answer : YES
YES YES YES
Thanks Uncle Stef, Learning PHP and loving it, just really trying understanding while building stuff, anyone know where I can learn PHP all day while getting paid let me know!
Coding a complex web app for my business and this video came in the right time. I was overwhelmed by 1000 different technologies that are more “optimal”. The video cleared lots of things out.
Thank you Stef.
Welcome!
Most servers run the LAMP stack where PHP is already installed. That also makes it easy to deploy your app.
I believe PHP no 6 was skipped because the headline feature - a new system for unicode strings - didn't work out. By the time the decision was made to remove that feature so much had been written about those features in PHP 6 - including books as well as blog posts 0 that releasing something called PHP 6 but without that feature was judged to be too confusing. They took the remaining stuff from what was going to be PHP 6 and called it 5.6 instead, and then eventually released different features in PHP 7.
“Except for Ruby” lol never change uncle stef
Another reason to use PHP is that it runs unit tests much faster than other languages (Java, Node, Go, Python, etc..), around 10ms for PHP, 300 ms for others at best.. When combined with a watcher re-executing unit tests when the code changed (ie. phpunit watcher), this is really a game changer for delivering fast high quality code.
I'm ancient inside. 'Larave:l up & running 3rd edition ' book is on its way to my desk/night table. 😂
Book? What is book? ;)
Just casually dropping in “Something that a lot of nerds don’t think about..” 😂😂
I would like to ask Steff. Have you ever heard about nette framework for php? It is created by David Grudl. What do you think about nette?
PHP♥️
PHP is what I learned in school ~2011 and it’s still my go-to for personal projects; it’s my comfort language.
hey Steph ..you a Leafs fan or Canadians fan? ..?? anywho.. .. so a year is coming up soon. This construction accident has really changed my life. I just EARNED my Free Code Camp, JavaScript Algorithms and Data Structures certificate at 50 years young; and am finishing up my Front End Development Libraries certificate now. Learning Git and VS Code, as I go and previously learned, html and css apx. 5 years ago. I feel like I did 25 years ago with no accounts and a full van of tools. I was always relied on and called to do what other carpenters couldn't or wouldn't do. Is there a digital "Want Ad Digest" you would recommend for older Sub Contractors who might not fit the polished handsome 25 year old Google tech look? or better yet... you hiring?
Yes, PhP is still a very relavant programming language
100%
Hey... The less they know about how good PHP is, the more money for us... All that other stuff is cool but I find that it simply does things that PHP does natively. I'm loving learning Python because I really learning to program, but PHP is great for database driven websites where you want it to construct pages based upon user profiles.
I think I would go node and react for a new project. Js all around...and easy to find a dev in these
PHP 8 added str_contains if I remember which is way nicer than strpos function. strpos had issues where is looking for a first instance rather than all instances, and that has some issues that I've seen with certain junk characters, etc.
Left PHP around 2014 for C# , I miss the LAMP stack.
Hey Stef,
I just want to know is it a good option for a fresher to join as a php developer
How do you see PHP in the development of web APIs? Is it safe, reliable and performant?
Yes, yes, and yes.
I work mostly in dotnet, but for small projects I would use PHP if only for the fact that it is interpreted and super easy to deploy. For a big app I am not sure, but I am nit opposed out of principle))
please tell us about laravel octane and PHP swoole. what about the performace,stability and is it capable for larger application?
For 99% of applications, performance should not be of concern. Most of the issues in that regard is related to database.
They're different paradigms than PHP was built for. You have to think.about long running memory usage and be careful of many things you don't usually worry about in PHP.
Im late in the game. I said screw everything and just chose PHP.....Been on the PHP wagon a few months now.
I haven't had too many problems with PHP performance (user since 5.1), except when trying to run parallel async tasks from JS, or from within a PHP script that will opt to use the same FastCGI process. This "blocking" behavior seems to be PHP's biggest current flaw.
laravel now comes with React Inertia stack and now i have no idea why ppl goes for other options....... but I have a question, do you think laravel is still relevant for web3?
Symfony, because Laravel is badly designed
It's now 2024, and I've been using PHP for over a decade. It has improved a lot, but now I'm moving to Go because.
It is easy to learn, especially for an PHP dev.
It's faster than PHP.
It has a type system, which for me is now an essential for professional solutions.
It does concurrency.
It's easy to distribute (single binary).
It has lots of nice built in features, like tools for building, testing, and analyzing code.
Big community and rich ecosystem.
Backed by big players.
Hi Stefan, when you say that pretty much every thing web related is possible to do with php, what are your thoughts about scalable realtime applications with php, like chats, push notifications, web pages that refresh rows of data from databases in realtime, as it seems nowadays clients often request that kind of features.
And although there are php libraries like ratchet it seems that shared hostings dont like much websockets.
So whats often the recommended approach with php for creating this type of realtime web applications?
And do you think php would adapt in the future to have native functionality for asynchronous and realtime apps similar to node and python?
There are reactphp and fibers.
@hmb8801 is using reactphp stable and scalable in shared hostings for lets say a chat application?
If shared hosting isn't enough (try it first) ... then get a VPS.
I still find it funny that most of the so-called coding boot camps teach the MERN stack. Even MIT is offering such a boot camp.
What do you think of C#?
Sir, Please Make a video on python for web development
Nice
I wish Perl was still popular but I guess I can always use it for fun. Not sure if any jobs are hiring for it .
Perl was cool and still productive. But it is one of the many languages that have been marginalized over the years.
I’m guessing you could make similar arguments for MySQL over the alternatives.
MySQL works fine. For most applications, the database choice is not that important. Frankly, we aren't building anything where that would really matter 99% of the time.
Help, the css is stuck in my crack I need solution quick! I might need to use the style tag!
Help!!!! The css is duplicating and is now taking over my butt cells and slowly turning me into your favorite commenter BOBBY G!
Except Ruby!, I almost spat out my coffee with laugher.
What's wrong with Ruby? Great Developer Experience, clear syntax, since version 3 wonderful support for parallel programming using actor model, speed-wise if I'm not mistaken nowadays thanks to JIT it surpasses PHP performance.
So I'm asking quite seriously, what's wrong with this Ruby (I'm asking as a non Ruby developer)
PHP has JIT as well.
@hmb8801 so it has, JavaScript too. And so does the Python. In general, JIT is now the "golden standard" for interpreted languages ;)
@@coder_one PHP has swoole for fast request response time server.
@hmb8801 nice man, but this thread is about something else than PHP toolings :)
Ruby is fine. Just an old joke around here where I bash Ruby for no reason.
Great video but 6:44 is a bit misleading. I think 99% of PHP devs would absolutely want to use features like nullsafe operators, union types, enums, and match expressions. I see these used all the time by developers at all levels, there’s nothing inherently “enterprise” about any of these and they’ve been embraced rapidly by the community.
Fair enough.
used public constructor parameters and i was suprised with the code myself.
8.1 actually provides these :)
But PHP already has all of these, nullsafe operator, union types, enums, and match expressions.
Great stuff Stefan, thanks for sharing 🚀 If anyone's looking for more Laravel or PHP videos, we released task scheduling and Monolog tutorials to help the community too 💪
I use PHP for building development tools. It's the best for this kind of stuff. You get results extremely fast and reliable. I would also recommand PHP for beginners to learn web development on a basic level. Exactly because you get results so quickly. But I must admit I am not a fan of the PHP frameworks. They seem slow and cumbersome to learn and difficult to debug when you run into errors. For webapps I prefer SPA's and I changed from PHP to Node for the backend. If it's a simple webapp with a not too complicated UI, PHP is king. And then I mean raw PHP with raw JavaScript, HTML and Css.
I wonder what your opinions are about Deno
I haven't used it. Try it out!
@@StefanMischook
Uncle Steph
What do you think about bun
opinion on web xr?
is php memory safe ?
what about GO frameworks
I've been using PHP since 2002 and I've been very happy with it. PHP has been with me most of my adult life. It seems like it's the end of the line now unfortunately. A lot of projects around me has been switched to C# and new projects are being started up in C#, and PHP is only been used for legacy stuff. I consider C# a Microsoft-technology, which I have no interest in. I have instead turned my attention to Rust. The learning curve is a little more steep, but once you cracked the basics, the development speed is actually on par with PHP.
I would have to disagree with some of the points made in this video, especially with the one about PHP being easier to deploy than python or node.
For PHP to be as easy to deploy as described in the video you'd have to first install a web-server (nginx for example), then install php, then configure nginx to talk to php-fpm whilst with Python or node, aside from installing python or node, you're pretty much done.
You could argue that the nginx installation and configuration is a one-time thing that you won't have to worry about, but still, someone has to do it and depending on the nature of the application, there are some rabbit holes that one can go through.
You could also say that one pain point would be to have to restart the python or node apps when deploying a new version, that's true, but that's also true when you have PHP queue workers that need to be restarted, so adding a simple restart step to you deployment script is fairly easy.
There are also the PHP extensions (pdo_mysql, pdo_pgsql, redis, bcmath, opcache etc.) that may be required by your app which is another thing that needs to be set-up. I haven't worked with node or Python for a very long time but I don't remember needing to install anything other than a pip or node package to connect to a MySQL database for example.
Also I'd like to hear your opinion on Go vs PHP, as it seems to me that you carefully chose Python (who even considers Python as a viable choice these days), node and Rust to make PHP look like the obvious choice.
I still teach students PHP as the basis of web programming. Once students are proficient, continue with other languages.
Why should you learn PHP for server-side coding if you have to learn JS anyway for client-side coding?
Because node JS and Typescript also take time to learn.
Plus in JS land, most of the code that you write is functional, with php you will most likely code in OOP, sure javascript has classes but they are just a syntactical sugar over prototypes.
@@mohammadelnayefyou mean js not java right?
@@hmb8801what if i already know node and express
@@saadhabashneh5587 yeah, JS. Not java, sorry.
Go with Go
thanks I will go away from go 😂
Uncle Stef, your camera is doing that weird auto-focus thing again. I don't know why CZcamsrs use the auto-focus when they have proper camera gear like yourself. Is there not a way to manually adjust the focus to the area where you sit and just keep it set to that forever??
Yes, I noticed. I was using a 17 year old lens for fun and for some reason the autofocus started acting up during the first minute of the video. It calmed down later on.
@@unclestef8239 Aha fair enough!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Only Ruby on Rails
what are your thoughts one Next JS ?
garbage.
@8:58 Let me guess, she called you uncle stiff, right?
I like elephants
About 80% of the web is PHP, best most loved CMS are PHP based. This is coming from someone who has used C# ASPX, python django, nodejs expressJS, etc., PHP is still more stable.
Well, i kinda hate Php, but now I have a Laravel project so yeah PHp still a thing bro it will never go.
7:28 😂 {;} ♥
I don't mean this to come across brash - messages without a face can often suffer from coming across a little harsh:
"You've got to be ready to change ideas based on new evidence" - That's commendable, but I'm not sure I feel like you fully live by it.
For example, there are languages faster, safer, cheaper, more reliable, more scalable, similarly easy to deploy and yet you would still pick PHP over the other server technologies, hehe. I feel like this shows a strong bias to it. Hm.
Take my experience as an example. After 8 years of professional development in PHP and now after 24 years of development in total using several other languages, I would not - from a business level or coder expertise level - feel inspired to suggest PHP.
I wonder, what do you think? Perhaps a little biased :) ? - Having said this, I've been doing this shit for so long now, I'm not sure I care anymore haha :)
Same. 😂 PHP to quickly prototype web apps … all things being equal. My second choice would likely be JavaScript/Express.
Is this a question a lot of people make themselves? Because most of the videos this guy has are him telling you to not use or learn X language in Y year because reaons.
I love these videos. Its a fantastic departure from some weird skitzo looking silicon valley lizard man talking about his tenth javascript framework he invented and is turning into a hosting/reselling company and slowly into a cult on twitter.
It's a bit confusing, because nearly everyone says to learn React, Node, etc, but my web dev program trained me in PHP. Most job listings also list Node and React. Also, chatGPT says PHP is limited in it's ability to design complex web apps.
That's interesting, ChatGTP didn't tell me that about PHP.
@@illegalsmirf I have Chat 4 and asked it 2 days ago.
ChatGPT gets its' information from unknown sources; PHP can build just about any app you can think of. There are plenty of PHP job.
@@LionhartM 'In summary, PHP is a capable language for web development, but the suitability of PHP for a specific web application depends on the project's requirements and goals. For many web applications, PHP is a strong and practical choice. However, for more specialized or resource-intensive applications, you might explore other languages or technologies that better align with your needs.'
I'm no expert so take this with a grain of salt, but I think PHP might not be the best choice when working with websockets. The MDN says "with this API, you can send messages to a server and receive event-driven responses without having to poll the server for a reply." So, to me, it sounds like if you're developing a chat app or a dashboard for real-time data, PHP might be a bad choice. But for developing a blog, shop, gallery, a forum, whatever type of application where you don't need to communicate in real-time with the server, PHP is good.
Rust is a general purpose programming. It means it can be used to make web apps. There are many web frameworks in rust.
PHP 8 basically is trying to turn into Java - not sure that's a good thing.
Good point. But, perhaps for the enterprise to even consider it, it had to be there. That said, it doesn't mean you need to use it.
@@StefanMischook Maintenance issue - you simply can't maintain something and upgrade its libraries and features without increasing the version. I call this "churn" and up until recently, PHP's churn was far slower than node / javascript. I come from the c++ world, so I'm ok with strict typing and such, but a legacy apps will still need to keep up. Guess it keeps me employed, though, so it's not all bad.
Actually, node is cooler
JS is really easy to learn??????
Sure! But you should learn a little HTML5 first, and a dash of CSS3.
Here to stay - WordPress - End of Story.
As a php developer, this is some brutal clickbait.
Lol hook, line, and sinker! I dig your name it's cool.
>Except Ruby
Ruby/Rails is fine you just hate DHH
Noooooo, no php. No future in india. We deliberately have to search for the company that uses php, those companies are way too rare.
php is web language
Ruby for the win 😁☕️
I wonder why he hated Ruby. Shopify is eating WordPress right now.
It is just a running joke.
py is not for web
Sorry, you're just some random dude who popped in my feed. I don't care if you would still use PHP in 2023 or 2024 or when ever. It's great. I don't use it often, but there is nothing wrong with it. It's still the backbone of the web. The thing most hated by CS grads was its ease of use and how quickly non-programmers were able to hack out solutions using it. Graft status-seeking/preserving behavior onto any topic and young men will say truly stupid shit in all sincerity. You're not a young man, but you have a CZcams channel and the way to draw eyes is with controversy. PHP is controversial because it reduced the inaccessibility of programming to non-CS grads. People are dull.
I've been using PHP since v3 - still hate it - It's an ugly language.
Bro php sucks.. u do the be with it.. then u need another technology for the fe.. loool why not use js and do both at the same time.. 😂😂😂
js is for monkeys
Embarrassing that you don't know why PHP 6 was skipped and why PHP 7 was so much more performant.
It was a radical shift in the direction PHP took.
@StefanMischook It is Neal from Raksmart, a server hosting serivce provider, we hope to build partnership with you, please reply if you could, thank you.