Chopin "Waterfall" Etude Op. 10, No. 1 but it's Microtonal (31-EDO, 31-TET)
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2023
- This video was inspired by @ValkyRiver 's take on this étude in Just Intonation ( • Chopin Étude Op. 10 No... )
Chopin "Waterfall" Etude Op. 10, No. 1 but it's Microtonal (31-EDO, 31-TET)
Made with MuseScore 4.
Some facts about 31-EDO: This is a microtonal arrangement of Frédéric Chopin's Étude Op. 10, No. 1 in C major using the 31-EDO tuning system, which divides the octave into 31 equally spaced notes instead of our usual 12 notes (12-EDO). 31-EDO is a very close approximation of the 1/4-comma meantone tuning system, which was used historically in the 16th and 17th centuries. 1/4-comma meantone flattens the pure perfect fifth (ratio: 3/2) by 1/4 of a syntonic comma (ratio: 81/80) to make the major third pure. Stacking four fifths in 1/4-comma meantone gives you the pure major third. 31-EDO is a very close approximation of 1/4-comma meantone; however, there are a few key differences. In 1/4-comma meantone, you end up with a spiral of fifths that never closes due to comma drift as you stack fifths. 31-EDO has a similar circle of fifths but you do end up back from where you started. 31-EDO is also an equal temperament, meaning you can freely transpose, switch keys, and use all the benefits of an equal temperament to your advantage. All keys will sound the same in 31-EDO, the only difference being the starting note. I hope you enjoy this arrangement!
Sheet Music Link: musescore.com/user/42991967/s...
PDF: drive.google.com/file/d/1Ecw2... - Hudba
Sheet Music: musescore.com/user/42991967/scores/11616982
Free PDF: drive.google.com/file/d/1Ecw2Hr28mcj4fJDmwYmO4gYV38auLvdk/view?usp=sharing
Xentuner by Keenan Pepper : github.com/keenanpepper/musescore-xentuner
Custom 31edo JSON retuning file for Xentuner: drive.google.com/file/d/1_nNzWrYAXSU98MVQM8ANwbmeB8sLPTOa/view?usp=drive_link
😮 Dang...That's so trippy but equally beautiful in its own right!
Thanks!
Absolutely phenomenal rendition. I feel that 31-EDO fits this piece, and I really like how you've integrated septimal harmonies all over the place. And that B "half-diminished" (d5) chord at bar 18... truly is something from another world. :)
That's an interesting way of notating 31 EDO
I decided to notate 31-EDO using sharps, flats, semisharps, semiflats, sesquisharps, sesquiflats, and even double sharps and double flats if I had to go that far 😅
How else would you notate it
@@eboone you can notate 31-EDO using ups and downs as well
@@YoVariablethank you for making the right choice and using semi/sesqui sharps/flats :)
@@stephenweigelof course :)
Guhhhhhh you make it sound so natural 😳😳😳😳😳
beautiful work. if Chopin had known microtonalism, he would have written 10-1 like this.
He uses Arch btw
That sounded great! Nice job :)
Thank you! I love your 22edo and 26edo work :)
@@YoVariable thanks!
Great work, you gained a follower. Your Arch pfp wasn't unnoticed too ;)
Thanks for your support! I’m glad someone else noticed my pfp ;)
That I don’t hear anything strange here might be sign I don’t have a good musical ear but it does sound great 😂
@@thibomeurkens2296 in 31edo, a lot of intervals are closer to the pure tuning of just intonation, so they tend to sound more consonant :)
Bar 32 (0:52) is so heavenly to me with that raised minor third
it is! when you go back and listen to a 12edo performance after listening to this, the Cb in that performance sounds way too flat compared to this one
Sounds so nice except for diministed chords haha
Thanks! What diminished chords are you specifically referring to?
0:06
0:09
I like how it sounds the same to me
honestly you just have to really listen to it there is a noticeable difference
I don't know why but I love the sound of bar 25. Is there a name for that chord?
Yes, it's simply called an A harmonic seventh chord (A C# E Gd or A C# E Fx, Fx = Gd in 31edo). It corresponds to the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th harmonics (4:5:6:7) in the harmonic series.
It’s sound better than my piano
💀
By the way, 31-TET is a meantone temperament, so there will not be any syntonic comma pumps.
That is true. I know that 5-limit JI and 53-TET can have syntonic comma pumps.
what is comma pump and syntonic
@@bozzigmupp510 Simply, a comma pump happens when you tune every single note pure relative to Just Intonation (JI) and the pitch starts to drift either up or down. A syntonic comma pump is one of the many different types of comma pumps. This comma has a ratio of 81/80, about 21.51 cents and is smaller than an equally-tempered semitone or half-step you can find on a piano (about 21% or a fifth of it).
@@bozzigmupp510The perfect fifth in 31-EDO is actually flattened by approximately a 1/4 of a syntonic comma, having very similar properties to quarter-comma meantone.
@@YoVariable “Comma pump” can also refer to when a sequence of chords that ends on the same chord as it starts in one tuning does not in another. Comma pumps can even happen in 12-TET:
| E#m D# G#m F# | Bm A Dm C Fm | Eb Abm Gb Cbm Cb | Fbm
This sequence returns to the original key in any schismatic temperament (comma: 15625:15552), whereas in 12-TET, this will go flat by 1\12.
Here is a sequence of chords from Ravel Gaspard de la Nuit (Ondine). Outside of 12-TET, this will comma-pump like crazy:
| Bm D13 Gm Bb13 Ebm Gb13 Gb-b9 | Cbm Ebb13 Abbm Cbb13 Fbbm Abbb13
Abbb-b9 | Dbbbm (D triple flat minor)
Puts me right to sleep 😅
Peaceful 😌
How are you doing microtonal stuff in musescore 4 especially with custom accidentals and playback. Do you have to tune each note by hand? Or can you merely set the tuning, enter the notes on the score, and it plays as you want. I would like to tune this in Pythagorean tuning, but thought musescore 4 did not do anything microtonal.
You can use microtonal plugins to do most of the retuning, which I have done. In the pinned comment, I have posted a new link to the plugin (although you can try euwbah's new Xen Tuner and see if that will work). I switched over to Dorico recently as it has better microtonal support.
Yes i am planning to switch to dorico very soon. Is the standard score for this available for free online? I see your 31 edo score, but i would need to see the original chords spellings to properly do it.@@YoVariable
@@RememberGodHolyBible Here's the standard score: drive.google.com/file/d/18mH2P3nLPMJfYhENbo9H9cMq1zDVvFny/view?usp=drive_link
I'm now using a different plugin called Xentuner by Keenan Pepper that you can reference right here: github.com/keenanpepper/musescore-xentuner
Also, download this custom 31edo JSON retuning file I created and place it in the examples folder of the plugin: drive.google.com/file/d/1_nNzWrYAXSU98MVQM8ANwbmeB8sLPTOa/view?usp=drive_link
This rendition worked well(*). But by following the score, i can see that you actually had to put a lot of work into it -- the score has lots of semiflats and sesquiflats that sound right, but that Chopin wouldn't have had the opportunity to write even if he had wanted to (stuck with pianos having only 12 notes per octave, but presumably tuned in a well temperament that made the sound come out right, rather than in 12EDO).
(*)Just 1 rough spot in the tuning somewhere near the middle -- maybe a typo on one of the accidentals that you had to alter? I saw an admittedly old tutorial video about how to add microtonal accidentals in MuseScore, and it looked very laborious and error-prone -- maybe things have gotten better since then?
Is it the Cb in the middle of the score that you’re talking about? I realized while working on it that I had to drift the notes sharp to get from C7 (dominant 7th, not harmonic 7th) to A Major. The plugin that I used in MuseScore really helped me. Once I was done notating a section, I ran the plugin and it retuned all of the notes in that section based on the tuning system I specified. I hope to start composing in smaller EDOs like 19 and 22 in the future.
Also, thank you for your wonderful comment.
@@YoVariable To be sure that was the spot, I would have to listen again with stop-rewind-start, but until I get a chance to do that, it sounds plausible that this is the spot.
I would also like to know more about composing with that plugin, but that too is going to have to wait (but maybe somebody has done a more up-to-date tutorial than the one I saw?).
@@YoVariable Finally had a chance to do what I said above. The problem note is the G-semiflat in measure 26 at the start of the 3rd group of 4 notes in the treble clef. Strangely, the G-semiflat in each of the preceding groups of 4 notes works fine. These groups of 4 notes are the same except for each one being octave-shifted down relative to the previous one. Or at least, that's what is indicated in the score. For some reason, the G-semiflat in the 3rd group sounds sharper than the others. Maybe a the microtonal shift specified in the score for some reason didn't apply properly on this note?
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio I haven't used Musescore in a while and just returned to the score. I checked to see if the microtonal shift was applied on the G-semiflat and it seemed it was. I used a new plugin called Xentuner by Keenan Pepper with a custom 31edo retuning file to make sure it was definitely applied. I uploaded this revised version on Musescore.com if you want to hear it.
you people scare me
lol
Wdym by that? 🤨
Hi, how to you get musescore to write in 31-edo?
you can use plugins (like i did) or retune each note individually by cent offset by going to properties and then playback. if you're on musescore 3, it's in the inspector window.
@@YoVariablewhich plugin did you use? I heard microtonal playback wasn't supported in musescore 4...?
@@romeolzi used the deprecated microtonal musescore plugin by euwbah and modified the code to make it work with musescore 4. i don't use musescore 4 anymore as i switched to dorico, which has substantially better microtonal support
Musescore?!
Microtonal?!
Yes and yes :)
Why change any of the pitches by half a semitone?
@@rosiefay7283 Can you please clarify? I don’t quite understand what you mean.
@@YoVariable 31ET is meantone, so whatever spellings are correct in 12ET are the correct ones for 31ET. Consider b.6. The chord is V7 of G major; it uses the 4th degree, which here is C. You've lowered it by half a semitone; why? (This lowering is all the more surprising, considering that you leave the C alone in b.4.) Then in b.7, where Chopin lowers the A by a semitone to A♭, you lower it by a further half a semitone; why? These half-semitone alterations make no harmonic sense.
@@rosiefay7283 the D7 chord that you’re referring to is a D **harmonic** 7th chord, with the 7th lowered by a diesis. The diesis (128/125) is the technical term for these “half-semitone” alterations you’re referring to. Even though diatonically Cd (semiflat) is “out of tune” in both G major and C major, harmonically it matches the 4:5:6:7 frequency ratios that make up a harmonic 7th chord, giving it more stability. As 31edo is a meantone temperament, like you pointed out, 7-limit intervals are more difficult to notate. I could have easily notated the Cd as an B# (an augmented 6th up from D). In measure 7, I decided to replace the Ab with an Adb (sesquiflat) to match the 6:7:9 harmonic ratio of a subminor triad, which I found more consonant. I could have notated it as a G# (an augmented 2nd above F). If I notated 10-1 in a superpythagorean (superpyth) temperament instead, I would notate the Cd as C and the Adb as Ab as they match the 7/4 and 7/6 harmonic ratios corresponding to their root notes (because of tempering).
I use arch btw
i used to use arch btw 🥲
Now play it on a Lumatone...
i don't have the space to set it up yet but i did order one :)
plugin link?
This was the deprecated one I used: github.com/euwbah/musescore-microtonal-edo-plugin
This is the currently supported version of the plugin: github.com/euwbah/musescore-xen-tuner
thanks
@@uhh4312 no problem
это 432 hz? Why?
It’s not using A4 = 432Hz as a reference point. I chose A4 = 440Hz to keep things simple as I’m dealing with a microtonal tuning system. However, the smallest step in 31-EDO, the diesis, can get you very close to a frequency of 432Hz. The note A semiflat (one diesis down from A) tuned to A4 = 440Hz comes at a frequency of 430.271Hz, about 2Hz flatter than 432Hz.
@@YoVariable Of course, when you said about microchromatics, in some chords, the notes sound fake, I'm just not used to that sound.
@@AdamMaykov it’s just that we are so accustomed to 12-tone equal temperament (12-EDO) that anything outside of it sounds “off” or “not right” to us.
If this sounds better than the original it's probably because 31-TET produces intervals that are mathematically closer to just intonation than 12-TET.
you're right; the only interval that is a little bit more off from just compared to 12-TET is the perfect fifth (and fourth)
@YoVariable That's why 31-TET is my favorite temperament. The consonant intervals are more consonant and there's also a wider range of dissonance to play with.