What does Alabama's embryo ruling mean for IVF? | About That
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2024
- In a landmark decision, the Alabama Supreme Court has ruled that frozen embryos are considered children, which means that reproductive health-care providers could be held liable for wrongful death when discarding unused embryos. About That producer Lauren Bird breaks down this first-of-its-kind ruling and its implications on fertility treatment in Alabama and beyond.
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I like what another commenter said. If these embryos are considered children then the parents can claim them as dependents for tax purposes.
Yes! This!! ❤
So much is wrong with this statement. 😂
Why not?
Start getting child support during ovulation.
Not how child support works, and if you mean something like EI maternity leave; they don't have that in the USA and even if they did, you aren't missing work because your frozen embryo is being stored somewhere. But feel free to join @briguy677 in his delusional opinion @@bigmike6461
Fertility clinics should drop those frozen embryos off at the local fire department under the "safe haven" law and be done with it.
Hot DAMN! Now there is an idea that unlike the Courts is 100% logical and made with a shite load of commonsense. Cheers to you 🍻
What ever happened to the separation of church and state??
the religious wing nuts are invading the state
Science, reality says: embryos are human beings at an early stage of development.
Parental rights should apply.
That isn't actually a thing. Never has been. It's also not a religious decision.
This video is downright lying that ANY patient has worry in this regard. The "patient" at fault in this case decided to sneak into a part of the fertility clinic that was unsecured, snatched some embryos, and dropped them -- causing them to break. The hopeful parents whose eggs were broken by this reckless patient are the ones who started the lawsuit. So this isn't the case of the IVF patient unable to carry the egg to term afterwards, like the story leads you to believe when the IVF patient in the video says they're worried now about themselves. This is to set up severe criminal liability for reckless people and reckless clinics that are sabotaging the potential parenthood of people.
them bible thumpers did dont gotten the memo.
BINGO!
Surprised no one has tried to place life insurance policies on unborn “children”
Give it time as you just know because of this ruling that it will happen sooner rather than later. I can just see the lawsuits piling up now because the insurance companies are 100% going to deny such coverage and if the insurance companies are forced by the courts to issue life insurance policies for embryos, the premiums they will charge are going to be massive for a payout of... hmmm... how much will it cost to bury a microscopic cell do you think? I can also see it now, some Politician or Hollywood elite will take out a $1 million dollar policy on each of their embryos then when one "dies" they'll bawl their eyes out on the media and talk show circuit saying how they mourn for something they've never seen all the while figuring out what trip to take or the next car they're going to buy 😂😂😂
The good news: no one ever has to pay storage fees for these again. The clinic can't get rid of them, can't transport them (kidnapping!) and can be prosecuted for failing to care for them.
Daycare fees. Very expensive.
What is wrong with American Law. So now we can see the next step charging woman for murder having their period each month.
Do i drop my embryo off at daycare?
Can I freeze 10 embryos and get the child tax credit?
Never met a child that could survive being frozen solid. Alabama kids belong in the X-men.
💀
Correct me if I’m wrong; but isn’t the main villain from X-Men an evil government organization that takes their rights in the name of ‘public protection’?😅🤣
@@bigpurplepopsWell since you asked, I'll correct you. The main villain from X-Men is literally fu@$ing near hundreds of different people or groups at any given point in time....seriously the comic has been around for decades, you think they've had one villain the whole time? They even had an X-Men vs Avengers arc going on for awhile....
Religious ideology shouldn't interfere in politics, law and science
Tell that to the Conservative
💯💯💯
Separation of church and state needs to be codified.
@@momtur4875 spooky!
problem is your "science" claims a pregnant woman doesn't have a child inside.
Im not religious, but the left wing is nuts
This isn't about religious ideology. This is about setting up severe punishments for fertility clinics that allow ANYONE to walk in and destroy other people's embryos or deal in other reckless or "wrongful acts" as the law states.
This video is downright lying that ANY patient has worry in this regard. The "patient" at fault in this case decided to sneak into a part of the fertility clinic that was unsecured, snatched some embryos, and dropped them -- causing them to break. The hopeful parents whose eggs were broken by this reckless patient are the ones who started the lawsuit. So this isn't the case of the IVF patient unable to carry the egg to term afterwards, like the story leads you to believe when the IVF patient in the video says they're worried now about themselves.
This does not make the act of IVF illegal or of fertility clinics themselves. It's just adding a far more severe penalty in the case of their negligence or wrongful doing. Say for example you have your eggs frozen because you want to have kids only in the future. 10 years pass and you find out the clinic mishandled the eggs and they were damaged. The liability they now have is greater. And you don't need religious ideology to agree to this change in precedent. It's a life altering thing to go from thinking you might have kids in the future to knowing a fertility clinic negligently mishandled your eggs and now you'll never be mom.
The clinics will need to get more expensive insurance. They will be facing more lawsuits. What is and isn't categorized as negligence will be case by case basis, as this is the common standard in the US since it goes by common law standards.
And if they don't incubate and eventually birth the multiple frozen embryos,
are they guilty of 'prevention of life', or homicide?
Next step: contraception is against the will of god, as it prevents life...
So biology says no, but an appointed judge with a political bent says yes. Awesome. Keep in mind, this is a state that teaches creationism as an alternative to evolution.
Great then they can claim the “children” as dependents on their taxes
Why does Bill Gates have so much influence on national medical policy when his background is almost exclusively in computer science?
Good they teach an alternative, evolution has never been proved. What does evolution have to do with an embryo that is considered a child?
@@shadowdancer3531 Oh man, just cause you say evolution can’t be proved is lazy when in fact there’s scientific evidence supporting the theory (fossils, bones); meanwhile there’s zero evidence of any sort of creation, AKA the Bible is a claim with no evidence. Evolution is closer to the truth than creation based on facts, until there’s something better that’s how it is.
Adam, religiously both views are equally supportable. i think you vastly underestimate the challenges that evolutionary theory faces. And so the theory can not continue in its past formulation. the theory isn’t fit for purpose, according to the evolutionary theorists themselves as expressed at the Royal Society gathering in the UK. A bit of humility is required before you look down your nose at competing inquiries. Note that naturalism or materialism is not the only philosophy to build natural philosophy (aka “science”) on. And there are fantastic scientists on all sides of the inquiry.
States like Alabama are an embarrassment.
Why?
@@gooddognigel9992because they just declared embryos children. Those Cells have more rights than women in some states.
@@mr.ashenfire2624 if the embryo is not a developing human being, what is it?
@@gooddognigel9992it’s 50 cells
@@irisipsen what will it become?
If the clinic won't release the "babies" so the parents can try again in another state isn't that kid nap in
Bro Just get rid of Alabama ...my god
Stop the world, I wanna get off.
That needs to be on t-shirts
@@Canucks44219 It has been. It was a common saying in the 1980s.
@trudycolborne2371 Thank you I was young lol I want one haha
These people really need to understand their religion does not mandate the life of others. It's absolute madness.
Call it what u want. Everyone has a religion of some sort
what religion do atheist have lol@@familyb5800
Humans are the animals on this planet.
obviously
no, animals are better.
PP and the Conservatives will try this in Canada.
You gotta wonder why. Its often the wealthy who get the treatment. Not that it changes anything. It shouldnt be illegal. But it should be accessible to all women.
The people who gave this ruling need to study medicine and to experience the difficulty of having no children on "usual" way.. 🔥😔💔
A dozen eggs and 11 different herbs and spices is a bucket of KFC.
HANDMAIDS TALE 😳
Does this mean that women in Alabama will have to hold a funeral every 28 days?
TAX HAVEN FOR THE ULTRA RICH lolololol yes alabama state IRS, i have 20 children on ice out of state lol
Seems some context is missing... this is becasue a lab was negligent and allowed viable embyros to be destroyed... specifically they were negligent in securing thier facility and another patient gained access to the rertricted area, handled the embryos incorrectly and spoiled them. the couples are now trying to hold the facility accountable for thier negligence. surely these couples should have some meaningful recourse for this negligence beyond just the actual financial loss given the extreme physical tax IVF puts on the parties. How can there not be emotional damages assigned similar to an embro in utero?
This is just making it impossible for people to have children, though. To say a few cells count as a full human is crazy. And I am an IVF baby. In a standard procedure 6 eggs are taken and they fertilize all of them, then put the best two or three back. In my mums case they put three back and she ended up pregnant with my brother and I. My mum tried for nine years to have children naturally. This is going to stop so many women from having children and so many people will never exist.
Sure, monetary compensation should be provided, but besides having to do it all again, there was no baby lost here. minus the cost, this is about the equivalent to a woman trying to get pregnant and getting her period instead. You can absolutely not get pregnant even if the egg is fertilized if it doesnt attach. tbh, the idea that this was a child lost is insulting to those who have actually lost children.
@@Bendylife it would have been unethical to destroy you as an embryo though. Glad you’re here 🎉
@@Bendylife I disagree, as i have watched a few women go through IVF both successfully and not... it's not at all comparable to thinking you're pregnant and then getting your period. Its typically quite a traumatic experience, much more so then being disappointed you got your period. Also a unique genetic code was created through conception and it had a non-negligible chance of survival upon implantation to the mother. Not near the survival rate as in uetero, but it beyond a marginal chance of success. Additionally, just as with the in utero cases were this law applies, the point of progression through pregnancy is a factor in decisions, so to would it in this case. That is to say these embryos lost due to the labs negligence would not be held with the same weight as a 20 week pregnancy lost due to negligence, the same way an 8 week lost pregnancy is also not held with the same weight either.
This may make for some murky legal water for a bit, but there needs to be reasonable punishment for negligence of this kind by private companies. It doesn't make things as murky as this story makes things out to be but this ruling could mean that labs have a hard time when there is failure to pay for cryo storage by patients, where they may feel they cannot risk destroying them. That said, in this case there was a clear duty for the lab to properly safe guard against this, and failing to do so should have a more substantial bases to have standing especially in civil court. I'm not here to say if the ruling was correct in general, but to me it would be the correct outcome for this case. Also I believe this could be addressed better legislatively than judicially by creating laws tailored to these more specific cases where the clients have paid and have an expectation that the lab will take due care in keeping the embryos. Basic contract law and settlements don't suffice.
If holding labs responsible for negligence like this ruins the industry, that should tell you something about the industry. Perhaps this is not the best way to do it but perhaps it could spark a better solution.
@@jennprescott2757 How? I wasn't a person then. I have more cells in my spit than I did as an embryo. you really devalue what it means to be a person.
@@Bendylife None of what you stated is stopped by this. You do not understand legal proceedings. This is to establish an extra layer of negligent punishment for a fertility clinic that acts in a ridiculously negligent manner -- like letting a random patient walk freely around the clinic into the storage area and grab whatever eggs they want.
If the clinic allowed some random person to walk in and damage the eggs that became you and your brother, they would now be held to an extra standard of liability.
The clinic in question didn't have their storage area secured and didn't have the frozen eggs secured. Literally anyone could've ran in and toppled the whole storage container or stopped it from keeping the eggs frozen and you're saying issuing a penalty to that person is absurd??
so, the seed i plant is a tree as soon as it's planted? really? well, tell that to the birds! & the bees! they'll be happy to hear it.
If you eat tree nuts, like walnuts, you're murdering a forest.
Same logic technically.
Handmaids tale?
No frozen embryos . Not able to reproduce. Hence Hand maids tale.
The embryos are already conceived.
Next Alabama will make sin illegal.
IVF clinics will gradually get out of the industry. Insurance companies will bump premiums through the roof if they have to insure against all too common refrigeration failures that will now be classified as a hundred wrongful deaths. A massive step backwards for fertility care and for the families that will now never be able to afford IVF.
Outrageous
Could a third party verify age and issue a verification code to be used where age must be provided? That code would provide access to age-restricted sites without identifying the user other than by that code.
Once the frozen embryo is 18 can it vote?
So if they claim them as dependents, then, embryo's have the rights not just in Alabama that someone from Ukraine or from Gaza have the rights to reproductive rights and care as well, and if the US denies the rights of an embryo's in the US then they are denying the rights of embryo's in other parts of the world. So would the US GOP be responsible for the millions of deaths in other countries? Considering embryo's advocacy right's for life, and liberty for one part of the world, would they be responsible for others in another? Children and embryo's have died in Gaza, Ukraine, so who's responsible for their lives?
Im scared for the kleenex sitting bedside about to get prison sentences in this backwards state
Alabama should stick to what they know. Peanuts and apple pies.
This is a terrible take just to stir up drama. We can all expect things to be smoothed out as they are ridiculous. This is about protecting the parents of those embryos from foul play, whereas before no one would be held accountable. Imagine spending all that time and money and someone comes along and destroys your embryos and nothing happens.
There’s a domino effects thats worse
How did another patient wind up destroying that couples embryos?
America is imploding on itself.😢
What happened to separation of church and state?
so .. the fresh embryos are not children. interesting.
The fresh embryos are implanted right away so I think it’s not the same. That being said, it is definitely unethical to destroy embryos.
What makes you think embryos are implanted right away?
@@jennprescott2757 your ethics don't belong in the lives of strangers... now, go teach some sunday school, y'know, from that book written by humans. it's like saying popping zits is unethical. it grows on your body, has a life of it's own, gets bigger, etc... oh, but zits can't become children of what's his name.
@@littlepoodle7443doors are overrated.
If the parents divorce, can someone claim child support?
So can they have embryos removed and frozen now?
I think you should read a wiki about IVF. The embryos have not been put in yet.
They are made in a lab, not a uterus.
@@dawnelder9046 and they argue that they are the same thing. So hold them to it.
Technically the eggs and sperm are what's removed, those are then put together (like in a mixing glass or something...probably not a blender, I don't know the details, biology isn't my strong suit) and once the fertilized egg becomes an embryo that's when they're frozen.... I genuinely don't know why they'd do it that way though, doesn't seem to be any reason you'd need to do that when you can easily just have the eggs and sperm frozen separately and still be viable for use later on.
@@Astraeus.. I believe the embryo keeps better than frozen eggs alone.
What exactly does "made in the image of God" mean, and which god ,ganesh ,shiva ?
America goes by the Christian God. So most likely that’s what in the image of God means.
@miirajackson constitutionaly America goes by what ever gods each person believes in ,or none, abd the Christian god is also the Jewish and Islamic god, ( the god of Abraham), but that still doesn't explain what "made in the image of god " means, gods are made in the image of man in fact ,as man invented gods, they don't actually exist, so to quote a non existent entity, in a court as the reason for a judgement is nonsense
I can’t believe this is in the law! What if you don’t believe in god, the law says every Alabamian does and that’s just not true
@@KatelynDawn what's alabamian?
Frozen, living, human embryos. This is so wrong!
that only seems true aslong as those embryos are not lgbt embryos
Then move to a different state.
This ruling does NOT stop ivf this is just propaganda.
We’re doom, mixing church and state, 😅 law is law, religion is religion, should never ever mix together. We’re done, period.
Atheists also believe in the reality of embryos being separate human beings. It's a biological reality not based on religion.
Religion and law have mixed all the time. In fact, it's literally the norm throughout human history. Roman law was based on religious principles and values. Modern common law is also based on it.
You live in a fantastical delusion to think the standards you see in modern society did not develop alongside the influence of religion.
This is the Woke right.
Woke would imply theyre informed about anything at alll 😂
More more distractions while the fk us!
1:18 - 1:21 : huh ❓
And this guy graduated law school ❓
JFC❗
That's a lot of test tube babies!
the world just keep getting more f up in 2024 wish it 2030 already technology advancement will probably make everyone life better
If an embryo inside a woman is not a child, what is it?
A fetus. Thats either wanted or unwanted and at the descretion of the one carrying it and their doctor AND NO ONE ELSES BUISINESS
@@mr.ashenfire2624 what will a fetus develop into?
@@gooddognigel9992 when you go to kfc do you order fried eggs?
@@camkretz what will an embryo inside a woman become?
What are the necessary & sufficient conditions of personhood?
Brain function
According to American conservatives it’s anything but being a women.
@@asideofaioli4630 plenty of animals with brain function, but they don't get the designation of person. It may be necessary, but it's not sufficient.
@@misterfunnybones Brain function and being human, genius. :p
@@DinkLover69 slippery slope. Any human fetus with brain function is person & what constitutes brain function - one functioning neuron or two?
Maybe they shouldnt be making babies in a lab then
Do you actually understand how IVF works?
Or just assuming they’re doing the Mewtwo thing with test tubes and all that?
@@bigpurplepops Egg and sperm are removed. Egg is fertilized artificially with said sperm. Embryo is frozen as soon as development begins...
So yea, made in a lab. And yea, some test tubes are probably part of the process at some point.
I mean, thats a whole child, you wouldnt implant a human being into another just because the incubator decided it wants to do its job
Always the Republicans, always the alt right
Separate human beings, just at an early stage of development.
Yet you've never been to a funeral for a miscarriage (1/3 pregnancies end in miscarriage), and we both know that if you were in a fire and could only save an actual baby or a container with over 1000 embryos, you wouldn't think twice about grabbing the actual baby because you know damn well an embryo isn't alive since it can't meet the 7 criteria for life, even if you don't remember what those are.
@@thatsrealroughbud...2394 I have been to a funeral for a miscarriage, was a late one -- about 8 and 1/2 months into the pregnancy. Now what's your point?
The purpose of this decision is to greatly penalize anyone who acts negligently with these frozen eggs. This idiotic patient walked into the storage room, which was unsecured, grabbed a bunch of frozen eggs, whose container was unsecured, and dropped them. These eggs did not belong to them, they weren't even that specific patient's eggs.
Believe me, you are not informed on a subject when all you have to go by is a CBC video. Go look up the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect and remind yourself this has probably been applicable to you at some point with CBC or any other news outlet. Now learn from that mistake and always consider the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect when viewing ANY news story.
How does one attend a funeral for a miscarried fetus of 8.5 months when miscarriages only occur before twenty weeks? How can you pretend to know anything about the reproductive process or IVF when you don’t even know what a miscarriage is?
@@CanadianEhHoleoh so youre in a delusional group
There was a time when biology called the shots. At some point, humans decided that biology wasn't fair, so they endeavoured to circumvent biology.
Are you saying people that want children shouldn't do ivf to have the chance to have children?
@@nicfree2503 who cares. You have to be rich to afford this anyways
Once you have circumvented biological limitations, everything afterwards becomes trial and error. Can and can't become should or shouldn't (if the question is even asked).
"biology wasn't fair, so they endeavoured to circumvent biology"
so all medical intervention is unNatural?
You mean by wearing my glasses? How would I see the comment you typed on the internet, as it displays on my smartphone screen, without my glasses? Next time don't circumvent biology and send me a carrier pigeon, ok? Be sure to print rather large. Like 5 times the size of standard book print please.
Why be irrationally upset about a law that doesnt effect you, in one state, in a nation you dont live in.
Why?
? Who are you talking to?
As goes one, so goes all.
😵💫
this report’s bias trivializes the sobering reality of the origin of human life. society has lapsed and needs to reorder itself to that reality. that means we have taken many things for granted, that we no longer can. at least in Alabama. honouring that human life will not be convenient, but that does not change the rightness. cbc’s bias is consistently to lower the value of life. and this report is no exception. these are just parts to be assembled and reassembled or thrown out like garbage. its a shame that girls have been raised to not want a family until its more difficult. or not at all. Economically, elites restructured our lives around childlessness and familiylessness. and when the longing for children arises (because it should arise) we learn that our decisions were utterly foolish in ways we didn’t comprehend. children are the greatest joy (despite the challenges of parenthood). and my heart goes out to those that learn that too late.
Yikes
Life begins at the zygote
Im for it
Why?
@@Adam.Langton because there are enough kids that need to be adopted before we go down this route
@@Tribuneoftheplebs What route? Did you even watch the clip? It's abut frozen embryos. What are you talking about?
I wish this was in Canada. don't support CBC though.
A random *guy* from a different country on what American women should be able to do with their bodies…
I’m not even liberal or anything, but this is the kinda reason these laws need to exist… ever given birth Henry?
To be fair, destroying embryos is unethical.
Some people say ivf is unethical
to be fair, your ethics are yours. enforcing religious ethics though law & politics is un-democratic. planted seeds can only become plants AFTER a biological process. in matters such as this, your opinion, which you view as fact, should not apply to the lives of people you don't know.
@jdbankshot it's complicated, one might consider it ethical to end one's own life and none of any one's buisness, but if a friend helps you it's considered illegal , so it's complicated
You're taking to people that want to jail women for having a miscarriage. That's support forced inseminations on women. @@jdbankshot
Your ethical opinion is subjective. That’s like vegans saying “to be fair, eating meat is murder”.
There is no real difference between a baby in the womb and a baby in a test tube so it only makes sense that we need to protect both
Uh, no. There is a big difference.
@@briguy677 like what. Are they not both living human beings with the same organs and body parts which have the potential to grow into healthy children no matter how small they are now
@@pithagorian4394 after a certain point the test tube doesn't develop to a point of more than a few cells as it is frozen if not inserted into the womb or dies if not preserved. the child concieved in a womb is naturally there and continues to develop into a child so conception is not a life and a miscarage is not murder by the thinking of this law
@pithagorian4394
You answered your own question.
The definitive word is "potential"
I have a dozen eggs in my fridge.
Hmmmm, should I bake a cake or make an omelet ? 🤔
@pithagorian4394 Neither has organs or body parts they are clumps of cells. Only the fertilized embryos in the womb have the chance to develop, and until they do, they still aren't human beings.
100% PRO LIFE and I am not afraid to admit it... thank you to our Supremene Court of Alabama!!
Pro who's life? This decision is going to result in many parents NOT being able to create the life they want as clinics shut down and doctors flee.
You realize this means LESS CHILDREN BORN, right? You are cheering for a ruling that will make a lot of families unable to have children at all.
@@DimaRakesah it also means less children that could possibly be abused....
Based?!
This issue is in Alabama, not Canada. This issue is none of our business.
Bunch of ppl said the same bout jews too... Hmm big brain logic.
Then go to Alabama and do something about it. This isn't a Canadian issue.@@fuckugplus
Idk, a lot of the right wing propaganda makes it over here. Look at our governments rolling out all the pointless anti-trans stuff suddenly. That's US stuff. A lot of the trucker protest was US backed. People in Alberta are flying American flags and Trump bumper stickers.
You should go let all your neighbours know that if they abuse their spouse, child or pets that you'll mind your own business because you're such a great neighbour.
OK, so what do you plan to do about this issue in Alabama?@@trudycolborne2371
Sets a foreboding precident, regarding the ability to own a set of dna blueprints. If a couple cannot at will dispose of they're own generic material. Then their ability to cease and desist does not rest. It's a kangaroo court literally. Some joeys never learn or crawl to birth.
Scientific Research!!!!! ?????
Like the monsters that they are they are after the stem cells of our new born
Religious ideology shouldn't interfere in politics, law and science