Why is 4/4 so common?
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- čas přidán 25. 05. 2024
- Why is so much of the music we listen to in the time signature 4/4?
Is 4/4 innately pleasing to human ears or is a love of 4/4 something that is learnt? I've wondered this for a long time so I finally took to Reddit in search of answers.
Thank you to everybody who contributed on Reddit towards this! Here is the original thread: / why_is_44_so_common
And an extra special thanks goes to Daniel Long & Paul Peijzel, the channel’s Patreon saints! 😇
SUPPORT ME ON PATREON: / davidbennettpiano
Sources:
How to play 9/8 by Adam Neely: • How to Play Music in 9/8
What is Entrainment?: musicscience.net/projects/tim...
The Evolution of Human Rhythmic Abilities: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
MinuteEarth Husky Dogs: • Why Don't Sled Dogs Ev...
An Exploration of Bulgarian Rhythms: www.fusionmagazine.org/agains...
The Dances
Eleno Mome: • Eleno Mome, Bulgarian ...
Paidushko: • Paidushko horo Sveta r...
Karşılama: • Oyun havası karşılama ...
Other examples:
'Biala Roza' by Slavka Kalcheva: • Slavka Kalcheva- Biala...
'Bak Bir Varmış Bir Yokmuş' by İlham Gencer: • Ilham Gencer & Fecri E...
'Levee Camp Moan' by Son House: • Son House and Robert J...
How to play a groove in 13/8: • How To Play A Groove I...
0:00 most songs are in 4/4 time
2:12 the “innate” argument
5:12 the “learned” argument
10:27 conclusion
Q: Why is 4/4 so common? A: Because 3/4 is too easy, and 5/4 is too hard.
Man Jay So if we came from 3/4 clearly the next era will be 5/4
Every riff I write ends up being 7/8
Booker Skye aka the Mission Impossible rhythm
@Booker Skye actually I think the division of 5 notes in 3+2 or 2+3 is called 5/8, or so I was told
@Booker Skye thanks for the explanation, but if the concept is to simplify the fractions, the 6/8 would be called 3/4, while they are 2 different tempos. That's what a friend of mine who attends a music conservatory told me. Maybe I misunderstood
I think our love for 4/4 stretches way further back than the blues. It’s dominant in classical music too. Mozart used it almost exclusively.
I fondly remember the death-bed scene in Amadeus where Mozart refers to 4/4 as Common Time. In my score of Bach's Well-Tempered Klavier Bk 1, pre-dating Mozart somewhat, it is referred to with a C for "common time". Most of it is in 4/4. Probably goes all the way back to the Gregorian Chants.
@@gumbycat5226
it's not a "C", it's a half circle. the full circle was the "perfect" time signature: 3/4. (perfect or godly, because of holy trinity and stuff). so the "C" (half circle) is the "imperfect" time signature, 4/4.
bach, mozart etc. wouldn't have thought of the english word "common" and use its starting letter "c"
The question is why the blues took 4/4 when it's based on African music, who's diverse as it comes in time signatures.
4/4 is 100% cultural.
It actually started even before that, a little before the Baroque era. We learnt that in music history class lol
Blues is generally a shuffle. A shuffle can be expressed as 4/4 but is ultimately derived from 12/8.
I think pulse is more important than time signature. As long as you can tap into a groove, it really doesn't matter what the top number is. Clever songs can be written in odd meters but can still groove.
15 step by radiohead, in 5/4, is a perfect example. People with no music culture whatsoever, who have no idea what 5/4 is, will still groove to that no problem. Mission impossible is the same thing
@@matteogori9050 mission impossible is a good example. Radioheads musics not so much
@@matteogori9050 Mission Impossible is awesome, I didn't realize that was 5/4. Thanks.
@@matteogori9050 Other great examples are the Michael Myers theme (5/4 time) and Dragon Slayer from the Skyrim soundtrack (7/8 time). They are in the odd time signatures, but the flow is very natural.
The question is why the blues took 4/4 when it's based on African music, who's as diverse is it comes when it comes to time signatures.
4/4 is 100% cultural.
5/4 is so hard, if you'd ask me to play it, I'd say "Mission Impossible"
I see what you did here... Nice
@@Alleysend What did he do there?
whynottalklikeapirat The mission impossible theme is in 5/4
@@EthanStore No that's mission intolerable
I might get it right on...ahem..."Take Five"
3:00 “any music that’s written in 4/4 can fit into 2/4”
Well yeah, any music in any time signature can fit in any other time signature, it’s just a matter of whether or not it becomes a grotesque mass of tuplets.
Cameron Horn 4/4 and 2/4 fit together nicely with about the same accented beats
Andrew 4/4 is often divided to 2/4 to decipher the music, 6/8 can be broken down to 3/8 in a pretty linear sense too. Any rythm Can fit to another like a Cameron said, but going from 4/4 to day 6/8 is a little more complicated but is doable
Masierity that’s pretty much what I meant, I just didn’t say it as good
So you're saying that music should be 1/4?
E. O. Like I said, grotesque mass of tuplets
6/8 time is by far my most favorite. But I'm a bass player. I like the swing sound of 6/8
Groovy baby!
6/8 is my weakness, also 7/8 works really well too for a swing, just play it as 3+3+1.
Scrap & Pallet Man SAME
Scrap & Pallet Man 6/8 is shuffle.
Hell yeah
Well, they say that we favour decimal counting because we have ten fingers, maybe we like 4/4 because we have four legs.
Oh my god, that actually was one of the arguments.
Then people with deformities must really love prog rock amirite
4/4 8/8 [just take out the bar in between] 12/12 [take out 2 bar lines]
Pirates with a wooden leg love the waltz!
@@toprak3479 I have 7/8 of a leg, so yes... Jk
My theory is that 4/4 became dominant because of the effect of radio. When you're mixing songs together, or blending one song into the next, you have far more options when both songs are in 4/4 than you do if say, one is in 4/4, and one is in 6/8.
This is why there seems to be more non-4/4 songs in the early days of popular music, and why genres of music that still use lots of non-4/4 beats such as the various 'prog' genres don't seem to get as much radio airtime as other genres
Interesting thesis...
@@andthen8068 good point.
@@dougarnold7955 Also, a lot of radios don't just blend one song with the other, or maybe the ones I listen to are the outliers lol
@@Alfonso162008 right. A lot of times people don't realize how much of radio programming is about, well, programming the masses and not really about creativity. I guess that's most of what turned me off to the idea of a music career when I was younger. Thanks.
@@dougarnold7955 Maybe I'm just slow or tired or dumb (or all three combined), but I'm not really sure how your response relates to what I said.
Syncopation can make 4/4 sound like some crazy odd time
Yup, my MPC knows. (quantize off ofcourse.)
*Dj3nt intensifies*
Beethoven approves
*The Pot intensifies*
I love the juxtaposition of one mesure of 7/8 and one of 9/8 over a drum playing in 4/4 (7+9=16 so you can divide by 4)
It's really "danceable" and surprisingly intuitive
❗️CORRECTION: at 8:52 I accidentally listed the tango as “3/4” when it is in fact in 4/4, or 2/4! Thank you to the commenters who pointed this out. (I shouldn’t have really included tango in that list anyway as it’s not a European dance like the others!) Sorry for any confusion caused.
David Bennett Piano I would say it is 2/4
@@juli1210octubre1 Other commenters suggested 4/4 but I've amended the pinned comment to include both
Tango evolved. At the beginning it was written in 2/4 but meant to be played as 4/8. Now it’s written in 4/4. www.adamtully.com/single-post/2017/05/01/Rhythms-or-‘Genres’-in-tango
Worth pointing out you weren't entirely wrong! Tango Vals is very popular, and is 3/4 :)
It was a common sense considering tango as a 3/4 sound, about accents on it (for this you David had here to wrong for a psicological mind idea).. But when by myself i had to write my music composing some undreds of songs, particular my ^mood tangable^ song "Little Maiden", i agree that tango was in effect a normal 4/4 in the perfect written style !
4/4 was already the most common time signuture in europe before the blues was even dreamed of.
Yeah that part seemed weird. Classical music favored 3/4 and 4/4 most of the time. Plus, blues is swung, it's not 4/4 in its simplest form at all...
I can understand it because most most pop music was influenced heavily by blues, and afroamerican music.
Yep, but classical not taken in account is weird
@@michelemorselli7047 not even european folk music that existed hundreds of years before the blues that are most commonly in common time and 3/4. I think hes got it the wrong way round.
@@brauliodiaz3925 and blues music is heavily influenced by european folk music, escpially celtic folk music. It wasnt a one way street.
WOW! I am a Bulgarian I really appreciate you mentioned my country and our traditions in your video! Thank you so much!
PS. I think that people like 4/4 because not everyone are very musical or not everyone can dance and 4/4 is the easiest to grasp and just start jumping like crazy to the rhythm. 7/8 isn't as simple as just jump to the rhythm, you have to learn a dance and remember it well if you want to join the fun. 4/4 is just for everyone! And this what everyone aims to achieve with their music. Reach as many people as they can with their music. That is how they get so popular!
David, I have a topic suggestion that you (and viewers) might find interesting: Songs which do NOT resolve to the tonic chord. It's so common to resolve to the tonic, but I sometimes hear pieces that resolve to the five (for example). I can dig some examples up if you want.
1:29 Ooh, we're gonna get some insight into his analytical and research proc-oh. Same thing I do.
now i'm more interested in that 6%. tell us the songs!
Theres often odd time signatures in Radiohead's songs. Ex: everything in the right place 10/4, morning bell 5/4...
In Coldplay (their older music), hearing a 6/8 is fairly commom
If You want the Crazy stuff, Go after Björk.
You can even hear some EDM music from Noisia or Venetian Snares...
In the days of modern popular music, the first big hit in 12/8 was possibly The Times They Are A Changin'. Dylan's preferred rhythm in his early days, which comes straight from the folk music tradition. This is a kind of 4/4: 123 223 323 423. The Beatles often used this style after they started talking to him through their music, placing the emphasis on 223 and 423 to suggest a call and response 4/4 - see for example Baby's In Black (although this song slips in several 6/8 bars). Norwegian Wood is less complex along the same lines. In almost all of their songs to Dylan, they also include a broken first bar. The first of these was She's A Woman, which is in straight 4/4 except for the first bar in 7/8.
@@gumbycat5226 Hallelujah is in 12/8. The Only Exception by Paramore is also.
Definitely I'd say the majority of that 6% is 3/4. If you listen to older pop music, like from the '30s through to the early '50s (and later in the non-rock category), it is WEIRD how many of them you suddenly realise are in "waltz" time! There's a LOT! Some old American standards, too. It used to be _way_ more pop.
Want a good example? Look up "Goodnight Irene" by the Weavers. VERY 3/4.
Take Five - Paul Desmond.
The post-credits bit made me laugh loud enough to wake the cat up.
That comment almost woke my cat up too
Thanks for the hint. I would have missed it.
Thank you for this. I really needed it ahahahha
8:54 tango is written in 4/4 but it is added with some accents so it feels like a 3/8 +3/8 +2/8.
Thats because it's more easy for musicians to read
That's basically a tresilo rythm
If I ever hear a song for the first time, let's say when listening to a new album, and a song sticks out to me as one of my favorites, it is almost always in 6/8. I don't know why, but 6/8 speaks to me in ways I can't describe.
it's sorta like talking
Maybe you are some sort of freak.
Show your hidden limbs, mister "6/8 sounds like an angels kiss to me"
Same!
That ending clip is gas
Cian Grant is ‘gas’ good?
@@DavidBennettPiano oh sorry yeah, gas is like Irish slang for hilarious! Always forget it's just an Irish thing
I saw this comment about 2 minutes in, and jist waited to see what you were referencing, lol
Glad I saw this comment and stuck around to the end.. It was hilarious
@@ciangrant3042 I blame the potatoes.
I love how just about every argument always comes down to nature versus nurture! Good ol’ psychology :)
I think that the most likely candidate for the "next popular time signature" would be 6/4. It's quite similar to 4/4, and is already appearing in some pop songs, like Electric Feel by MGMT.
Do you realize you mentioned a song from circa 10 years ago?
I'm actually planning on doing a video on Electric Feel and it's amazing use of 6/4!
@@guitaristssuck8979 huh?
RightfulFallen I hope it's either 6/4 or 5/4
But here’s the thing, are you filling it in groups of 3 + 3 or 4 +2?
I've had ocd my whole life , counting small things it increments of four , like blinking or tapping my hand, or steps.. It helped when I started playing music, i could count in 4/4 effortlessly
When I have a kid I want to expose them to loads of different time signatures on a very regular basis (I have prog metal on in the background virtually all the time already) to see if they still prefer 4/4
I think it simply comes down to how humans handle groups of (specifically) prime numbers. In order to feel a regular pulse, we have to group beats into as short groupings as possible in order to not loose track of it. This means using groups of around 2, 3, 4. I read somewhere that humans aren’t very good at (quickly) visually grouping objects into more than 5 things at once, and I think it’s similar for music. Thinking more broadly than just modern popular music, the other most common time signatures are in fact groups of exclusively 3 or 2 - 3/4, 3/8, 6/8, 12/8, 6/4 - because it’s easy for us to group that way. The reason I specifically said prime numbers, is because non primes are just multiples of smaller primes which we can group into chunks. 4/4 is just two lots of 2/4, 6/8 is two of 3/8 so like in the video can be regarded as identical. Now even if we take 5/4, or 7/4, which are occasionally used in popular music, (Take Five, & Pink Floyds Money), higher prime-numbered time signatures are almost always split into groups of 2 & 3 (and 4 but again it’s basically 2x2). Songs in 5/4 that don’t use the typical 5/4 clave rhythm are even rarer, check Adam Neely's sungazer video on 5/4 without the typical clave - it’s more of a 5-to-the-floor type groove. So it is possible to use a 5/4 Time sig without grouping into smaller chunks, but as I said before, I think that this is probably the limit as 6 is far too regular (has factors of 2 & 3) and 7 is (almost) too large and is usually grouped into 2 &3s or treated as a group of 8 that skips the last beat. Even the examples given in the video of other cultures which use odd signatures still group it into smaller conventional chunks, as described in a Dave Bruce video.
So to finally pin down on why specifically 4/4 - well it’s the simplest we can possibly get, it’s just 2 lots of 2, the smallest prime number in existence. 3 next largest hence why it is still common not so much as 2 (which is basically identical to four).
5 the next prime is now large enough to split into two other primes but that’s combining different numbers together so is far too complicated, then there’s 6 which despite being bigger than 5, it is regular and can be split symmetrically, like 8 and 9 and 12 which are also occasionally used, unlike 7, 10, 11, 13 etc which are much rarer. 8 corresponds to 4 and 2, 9 is 3x3 and 12 is basically 4/4 with quiver triplets on each beat, so we can still tap in what feels like 4/4. So to reiterate 4/4 is just f*ing simple and the easiest time signature for our monkey brains to comprehend, its the smallest prime number, 2, done 2 times to turn it into a regular pattern.
4:53 the lick
You have a fan for life after that ending had me laughing like hell.
"And that's how you play a groove in 13" hhahahahaha
As a sociologist and a musician, I can say that the innate argument and the cultural learnt argument both supports and feeds each other. And I personally think that because of this symmetrical thing, 4/4 is more basic to humans and the odd time signatures can often be overwhelming to us. We can say that pop music popularized the 4/4 signature, and pop music built on basicness and simplicity so that's why pop music often used 4/4 signature. And when it got pop-ular, 4/4 signature got popular as well.
Blues is often swung, therefore it's essentially 12/8.
I was going to include a bit about how 12/8 and 4/4 are two sides of the same coin; 12/8 is shuffled 4/4
@@DavidBennettPiano That's true.
@@DavidBennettPiano Until it's 4+3+3+2 or whatever (which is essentially the "West Side Story Hemiola")
fuck off
How would you notate 3+3+2+2+2
I think 4/4 is probably common because music is about patterns; it’s easier to make patterns in even number beats than odd numbers. 2 beats would be too few to be a useful unit in songwriting, and 8 would be too many. 4/4 is essentially the most useful time that you can count “1212” in your head to.
We have here in Finland Valssi 3/4 in our blood 😄
Great video with good information!
I loved that ending so much. Thank you for being so informative and for having such a wonderful sense of humour.
Thanks for using the Bulgarian examples, David. That music is heavenly
Your videos are great, man! Keep on uploading educational content, many of us learn a lot from you.
Thank you so much! It's the support of people like that keeps me going!
I've notice 12/8 being in more pop songs. it's similar to 4/4 as each measure is divided into 4 beats but each individual beat is divided into 3 instead of 2. almost as if every beat has a triplet on it. songs like 'Say Something' use this time signature. i don't know if it will become more popular them 4/4, but it might
12/8 or 3/4?
@@comicsans6138 12/8, sorry should have been more clear. the each beat is divided into 3 instead of 2 was supposed to be about how 12/8 is like 4/4 but instead of dividing each beat into 2 you divided it into 3, as if it was in 4/4 but every beat had a triplet on it. does that make more sense?
Blues are sometimes transcribed as 12/8. After 4/4, 12/8 is my favourite rhythm to play
I love your videos. You always teach me something that helps me understand aspects of music that I normally don't pay attention to.
June Asiimwe thank you! I’m glad you found it useful
@@DavidBennettPiano Thank you for the great content.
Reddit can be such a cool place sometimes
TheOrangepeak you’re welcome 😊
Yeah 4/4 is the best tool for structuring our pop songs. The symmetry actually goes in both directions: song sections are normally, like, 4 or 8 bars. Using a 5-bar transition is a good way of creating a jarring experience for the listener without changing the meter of the song at all, because it's messing with the inherent cognitive leg up that structuring your song around a symmetrical time signature gives you.
I can't tell you how many times I've been confused by say, a verse having not 2/4/8/16 bars but anything in between when i started getting into music lol
Nice explanation David
George Elliot thanks 🙂
I love how you organize your research and arguments, like, you can be an academe journal writer.
Great channel mate. Congrats. I watched all your videos, looking forward to future content.
Partly innate, partly cultural, but above all: 4/4 has just enough innate qualities that it can bridge cultures and genres. That is the main attraction and the reason why it's so common.
I think 4/4 definitely has some innate qualities and the predictable pulse can function as a non-distracting groundwork to let the listener focus on melody or lyrics. It's not so much prevalent in western music, but in western song culture. Even EDM, which often has no lyrics or lyrics that are less central to the music, is rooted in that same song culture.
But, arguably, other time signatures could do the same, when they were part of your cultural upbringing.
So, what I think is the main attraction, is that 4/4 (because of the innate qualities of predictable pulse and symmetry), it is the ideal beat to bridge cultures and genres. Modern pop and rock music didn't just rise up from blues and gospel, it also drew from country and folk. The latter didn't always have a 4/4 beat, but that very 4/4 beat was perfect for bridging the different American musical traditions. And it was perfect for that music to become truely popular music with an international appeal.
While other cultures may have preferred other time signatures, 4/4 seems to have enough innate qualities that it can build bridges and appeal to a lot of different people.
Wait I wasn't expecting you to put a Bulgarian song in your video! I'm pleasantly surprised bc I'm Bulgarian! 😁
4/4 is the most versatile time signature, thus, I don’t see it ever going away. I hope we see more songs in odd time signatures in the future, but 4/4 will never go away.
Really like your videos. Thank you for sharing your insights.
I believe it´s totally cultural because, like you said, american music came from Blues. For example, here in Brazil almost all the rhythms are in 2/4. That´s one the reasons why our swing it´s so unique. And it´s weird listenin' to an american or a british playin' Bossa Nova or Samba. You play with the feeling of 4/4. :D
3/4 and 4/4 were common in traditional and classical European music for centuries before we came into regular contact with sub-Saharan Africa and before America was a thing, let alone when African-Americans started making blues.
can you realy call it 2/4 though? samba for example has a "half-accent" before the 1 accent. Thats why they have problems, not because they feel 4/4. feeling 2/4 when used to 4/4 is easy. feeling samba is not.
To me it's easier to think about the problem if you think about the same question in regards to scales.
There's likewise something "natural" about the major scale (overtones, etc.) and most formalized systems of music around the world use it as the starting point for talking about a scale (eg. Indian classical music talks about natural, flat, or sharp notes in relation to the same major scale degrees as western music; Chinese classical music uses Major pentatonic and its modes as its starting point, etc), BUT where you go from there is very much culturally specific. The minor second (and even arguably the augmented 4th in certain contexts) as a scale degree isn't very common in Western popular music, so we usually think of it as sounding "unusual or exotic"; it might be tricky to sing scales with them if you're not used to the sound of them; etc. Same goes for heptatonic scales with augmented second jumps in them.
It seems pretty logical and natural for most western popular music to stick with the modes of major, but other traditions take the same thing and go completely different places with it, like how ragas are based moreso on tinkering with the scale degrees directly and incorporating specific orders that they should be played with.
Even if I've phrased that badly, what I'm trying to get at is that there's probably a strong argument for certain basics of music being somehow innate or quasi-innate, but as a given tradition develops over centuries or millenia, where you go from there with those basics, and what then seems like a logical or satisfying direction to go in, is always going to be culturally and generationally specific to some extent. And I think it's from there that music becomes, more than just a primal response to a biological human quirk, but a form of expression.
Thank you, so many people ignore the history of blues, jazz and rock n roll and then wonder why modern music is like it is
4/4 time => original Rubik's cube
3/4 time => pyraminx
2/4, 4/8, and 8/8 time => 2x2, 4x4, and larger Rubik's cubes
5/4 or 7/8 time => twisty puzzles based on the dodecahedron
Other time signatures => twisty puzzles based on the icosahedron or octahedron
Songs that alternate between at least two time signatures (EG, "Walk Me Home" or "Hey Ya") => Rubik's cuboids and floppy cubes, twisty puzzles based on an archimedean solid, or when you combine two of the same twisty puzzle into a siamese version of itself.
Good video mate 👍 I love how you did your homework and presented it thanks.
Thank you :)
The blues thought is dang interesting!
Hot take: Popular music is generally built with long and short ›steps‹ (don't need to be actual steps). One way is to use just two steps, long:short = 2:1, which paired with a certain poetic tradition (??) gives us bars of 12/8. 2:1 is so short that the perception of the beat can shift from the two steps to the whole thing. (Which means that now there's pairs of even beats, which can be re-applied to the steps.) There is a line from _Sumer is icumen in_ to modern pop music.
Some parts of the world 4/4 was extremely rare. 7/8 was the most popular. If they had become the dominant economy and culture in the world...we'd all be sitting around asking "Why is 7/8 the most common and the most pleasing time signature?"
We'd say things like "Well...when 7/8 is divided into 3 and 4 beats...it creates a sense of forward movement and urgency and excitement. Something that...uh...a 4/4 time signature for example lacks. That's why 4/4 is considered boring by so many people."
Very thorough and reasoned investigation - thank you!
Fascinating topic, well-presented. The only things I'd add are that.
1. many if not most of the Western "3" rhythms are indeed left-right. Waltz is LRL RLR
2. the map doesn't take into account Cuba, Brazil, Puerto Rico et al, which have mostly 4 and 12/8 rhythms that again are left right at the end of the day (although modern Cuban jazz musicians like Gonzalo Rubalcaba seem to have a strong affinity for 5, 7 etc.)
That said, the clips of people dancing to all those additive rhythm are a revelation, and you could do another video on India. I'd really be fascinated to understand how that whole region spread across Eastern Europe wound up with those dances.
Too much symmetry can get boring, so you need a bit of anti symmetry to make you appreciate the symmetry more.
That's right oldmangranny5 oldmangranny5
That’s right gonna bite you so you can have rabies, too.
Thanks for the informational video!
I didn't realize the nature vs nurture argument also pertained to music in general.
Although, every question about the evolution of something connected to human beings invokes the question, now that I'm thinking about it. ;)
a really interesting, compelling and accessible discussion, thank you.
Thanks for all the great videos! I'd be interested to know more about Golden Brown by the Stranglers - believe it's the only number one song to be 6/8 alternating to 3/4 in uk.
Golden Brown is certainly on the list of songs to analyse!
Golden Brown changes time signatures throughout the parts. As I remember, doesn't it go from 3/4 to 13/8 somewhere in the midpart guitar solo, and lastly dissolves into 3/4+4/4, which again makes up a 13/8?
You can't get paid playing grooves in 13! ;-)
Both a classy and clever way to work in the sponsorship. Well done.
One of my music teachers was professor of psychology. His explanation is that it is a matter of conditioning. Our centuries what we have been constantly exposed to becomes our conditioning and thus we find comfort in it.
We have trained ourselves to like it.
*Atul Merchant 'Jataayu'* The question then is; why 4/4, why not 3/4? or 4/7? Constantly being exposed to it does not answer the question.
@@BigHeretic, 4/4 is rather natural, but there are lot many things which humanity has adopted despite being unnatural and illogical.The psychologists, anthropologists, have written thesis on it. Case in point is all organised religions are the best example of conditioning.
I did a lot of playing of 3/2 Hornpipes - which were popular in the 17th Century when horses were popular as transport - I saw a horse trotting, and noted that gave a very nice 3/2 rhythm at the right speed for double hornpipes. May Indicate, human walking has an effect on the popularity of 4/4.
I think the learned behaviour thing is the main reason here.
I mean, 4/4 is just everywhere, so you can kinda do it unconciously, if you grew up in a 94 % 4/4 world.
That's why anything but 4/4 takes much more concious thought if you want to play it, or at least that's the case for me, maybe other people can just inherently play in odd meters with no issue.
But, maybe it's also got something to do with what we learn to play first, when we're starting out on an instrument. It's very likely it's going to be something easy in 4/4. Kind of like how a dog remembers the tricks it learned first as a puppy the best, and will go to those tricks, if it's in doubt of what you want from it in a training session.
I'm from Brazil. Even though my country is marked as one of those with different time signatures, it's really hard to find a Brazilian song that is not in the 4/4 rhythm. Samba, which is typical from Brazil, is in 4/4. There's also another typical style here called "sertanejo", which is basically our folk music. Old sertanejo songs use 3/4 rhythm very often, but modern sertanejo songs are very influenced by pop music, so they use 4/4 rhythm as well.
I love Blues!!!
Oh, just saw the closing clip. That was excellent advice for playing a groove in 13. Thank you.
One of the Beatles most popular songs, "Here Comes the Sun" is in a mixture of time signatures, but it's so seamless that you hardly notice.
Honestly my favorite is 7/8. It’s fuckin groovy
I'm going with the walking theory. When busking on a guitar I used to keep time by watching people walk.
Wonderful exposition! How true.
In western dance music like the measure does not divide the 4/4 measure into 4 equal parts. In dance music, it is common to extend one beat (often the fourth beat) slight creating a lilting effect.
We are quite used to hearing this and don't even realize it; however, this is much more common in 3/4 time amplifying your argument about innateness.
I alwYs wondered about this! Thank you!!
I think it's partially that symmetry thing and partially learnt.
Me too!
4:53 Nice "The Lick" reference, by the way.
Fascinating video as always. Please keep it up.
I wonder why most popular music _is_ also grouped in measures of a multiple of 4. Whenever I try to write a verse with an odd number of bars, it just doesn't sound right.
In the tiny chance that you see this comment, please could you consider making a video on why that is?
Thanks.
Every rap song I hear lately, the rapper is speaking in triplets, it’s extremely popular here.
I only hear it from passing vehicles, I don’t put on the radio.
5:05 - that is a very important pic! I like the way you teach!
Have you ever considered doing something on Laurie Anderson's Mr Heartbreak? Three songs there in particular (Kokoku, Blue Lagoon and Gravity's Angel) are mind-boggling in terms of time signatures.
Songs in 3/4 always sound happier than 4/4.
4/4 is more of a march, whereas 3/4 is a dance
And also Ländler, polonaise, mazurka, bourreé, sarabande, minuet, and a whole lot more which I couldn't think of right now.
Matt's Crazy Art always? I think not
Love your videos ! ❤️
Extremely well researched, argued, animated and designed. Thanks.
I'm Austrian, and my favorite rhythm is the 3/4.
Imagine running with a 3/4 timed song.
Honestly, I feel it is quite easy.
Easy...LRL, RLR. That's the whole of it.
Gallop
You'd be skipping. LOL
Imagine running to a song where the time signature is an odd 16th note pulse
Great Video !!!.. THANK YOU - I am of western origin.. and amongst other things give guitar lessons to Brazilians... I normally try to teach songs students like.. and they bring me many Brazilian popular/traditional songs.. I would say around 50% are in odd time signatures... my teaching just got that much harder!!!! It is way easier to teach western music.. the rhythm part is so easy... so you can focus on harmony, melody and technique.. but with different time signatures things get more complex... it makes you realize how really mundane our western music really is. The richness of the rhythms in the Brazilian culture really open up new horizons.. we saw how that happened with Bossa Nova.. in the 60s where Jazz Harmony was adapted to a Samba like beat.. I am hoping our western music will soon start to embrace more complex rhythms
Excellently done
Wow when you played that foreign music I couldn’t even detect the beat in it at all, much less the time signature.
4/4 is the most easy and natural time signature in the world
Pyramid Song: hold my astral car
Isn’t pyramid song in 4/4?
Hey David - cool video! My fav - 3/4!
I'm really interested in the phenomenon of songs with non-4/4 time signatures still having a sort of meta-level 4/4 signature in that the song itself is built around 4 measures of (for example) 3/4 or 5/4 or 7/8, etc (as is mentioned early in the video).
I don't feel like I know enough about music history prior to the 20th century to be able to talk about general trends, but it would be interesting to look into whether this pattern is true for traditionally non-4/4 styles of music (Eastern, Western, and in between). Based on what little I do know, I suspect this is not the case with most musical traditions in what we now call India.
Very interesting. I'm going with the cultural camp as the main reason we love 4/4!
I really love the videos in this channel.... tonight
Brilliantly well explained - you have no right to be so smart :) LOL. Seriously, watching all your videos now, and really enjoying. Thanks.
By technicality, the only thing that matters is the upper number. So what is the most common is 4. As long as the bpm is the same, it should not matter what the note chosen as the beat is. So 4|4 can be converted to 4|2 as long as no 𝅜 is used in 4|4, you can convert it without issue. But people are so used to the beat being 𝅘𝅥 in 4|4 that changing it would confuse people. But if you only give the information in beats and measures, you can't tell 4|4 apart from 4|2, 4|1, 4|8, 4|16, ... they will all look the same.
Excellent ending!
Hooray for the blues!
Your comments from 6.44 are also supported by the great drummer Simon Philips. He made the observation about the changing time signatures as you travel from west to east and how for generations the more ‘unusual ‘ timings has become the norm.
Fascinating content keep up the good work.
I believe there are two factors.
1st, dancing. 4/4 I believe results in a fairly straightforward dance step. With 4/4 the dancer doesn't have to remember "fancy" dance steps. With odd time signatures the dance steps become more complicated, e.g. 4 steps then 3, etc.. So simple dances meant simple rhythms. Also while performing for traditional folk dancers, you want to keep a steady consistent rhythm between songs.
2nd, singing. The meter in that is used in the lyrics. For example I found a site that lists the time signatures of a set of classic hymns. 4/4 is the most common time signature (761) while the next is 3/4 (398) followed by 6/8 (113). In western culture, prior to recorded or broadcast music, the exposure of music to a lot of people was through church and singing of hymns.
When you learn to count on your fingers, you basically learn it in 5/4, and no one is bothered by that.
I can’t say with certainty but if this is an “era of 4/4” the next era I’d like to see is 7/4 or 7/8
I think that it fits simple lyrics very easily: subject, verb, object, beat, subject verb, object, beat. It is the simplest time signature to apply to a simple lyric.
Dope ass video. So many things tied together I’ve been needing to be connected in my head
Great video
Thanks!
Great! Running and heartbeat certainly fit 2/4 and 4/4, but the graphics showing this matching are not good. They show one footstep on each quarter-note. It would have to be a very slow 4/4 or very fast footsteps! It would be better to show one footstep on the 1 and one on the 3. This also helps resolve the 2/4 versus 4/4 issue.
And BTW the blues shuffle (which can be written as 6/8 or as a 4/4 with shuffle) is the time signature that sounds closest to a heart beat!
I was more suggesting that running is linked to 4/4, not walking, and therefore it would be one footstep per quarter note. But your suggestion makes sense too :)
Outstanding research and analysis, as always.
From the innate and bipedal perspective i was wondering if there might be this Rhythmic association:
first 2 quarter ->proposition
next 2 quarter ->response
or question - answer...
I think i'm with the second camp. I grew up playing piano i learned 3/4 so well that it's natural to me now.
3/4 feels "jumpy" to me because of the waltz feeling. 4/4 feels more at rest