@@Logicsuperceeds why do people always say they're never getting called by worse? This is such a flawed logic that I see people often use to justify being a nit. Playing balanced poker doesn't mean you'll never get called by worse and if that's the case then crank up the bluffs.
@@andylymbo so you think he's going to call an all in with third pair, 8 high kicker, on an ace high board with 4 cards to the flush? Are you braindead?
You just called!?! The money is already out there just jam and pray somebody calls..... your so far tilted out of your mind that you flat call with a non paired board and an the ace high flush smh
Versus a normal tight player Iâd seriously consider just calling here. Most solid regs would literally never 3-bet the naked K of spades here. However, once caller said V was tilted this just becomes an obvious jam.
Raising all in doesn't make any sense when everything worse is folding and you're only getting called by 6,5 of spades. If villain had a worse spade, then he's just calling or check calling. This was either 6,5 of spades or a stone bluff. Hero wasn't getting any more money by shoving.
I had a guy check back a flush on the river after calling the flop and turn to get there..And yesterday a guy checked back a 6 (full house) on a 36763 board.. I had a 3 and was ready to snap call
This is why youâll never make money playing this game and you keep the game alive⊠nobody in history is calling a 5b jam on the river there with the third nuts on a 4 flush board you only get called by straight flush, but thanks for keeping the game alive !
â@@RioStaysTrue3 nuts? He had the 2 nut, and do you know what is the probability to have a straight flush? If you play scared like that I'd love to play with you ahahah thanks for keeping the game alive
@@mattias5945 you actually might be slow. He has the nut flush, if you shove youâre targeting the THIRD nuts⊠like are u slow ??? Q h flush never calling w 5b shove itâs literally pointless
@@RioStaysTrue bro, they misread your post. Your post is still atrocious though. Imagine being such a nit you just flat the 2nd nuts when it's impossible for someone to have you beat. I guess you're one of those fun players that only analyze the current streets range and don't realize it's literally impossible for 56ss to check the turn since they can't risk a spade rolling off right?
The percentages are so small for a straight flush you have to assume you have the nuts and re raise. He probably wouldnât of called with a bluff but you win anyway
Theoretically he's correct by calling. Villain shouldn't be calling a jam with less than the A flush and if he's not getting called by worse 50+% of the time it's a bad play. HOWEVER comments are right some live players are bad bad. There's probably more who'd raise less than the ace flush and call compared to those who have the nuts. If you're playing NL25+ online though I honestly think you shouldn't jam. This exploit only targets absolute mouth breathers and there's just not enough of them at that level online. I'll give the guy his dues for having the knowledge to make a theoretically "correct" play even though he should be exploitating the fuck out of villain. A solver would also call. If it's solver approved I never call it truly bad... only suboptimal.
@@olliesutton1804 Yeah exactly but they'd have to be pretty terrible. You could arguably raise Ks from villain's position but you absolutely shouldn't call less than As after that. In theory it's about minimum defense frequency making As+ enough of a call after re-raising. Not only that but in reality live player's just aren't 3 bet overbluffing 4 flush boards. It's not justifiable from a exploitative position either for villain to call less than As. Therefore in theory Hero shouldn't value bet less than the nuts. But as we all know live players can do some whacky things so in this instance he probably should just assume they're bad. NL25+ online pool is without a doubt not calling Ks or less enough to justify the jam. I know only the nuts beat you but they just aren't calling a 3bet with less than As as nitty as it seems to just call.
@@kongkronos9772 If I was sat there there in the exact same position, I would be min raising to squeeze any value I can get. Straight flushâs are so rare its almost not even worth worrying about
@olliesutton1804 At NL25+ online? You'd be getting called primarily by the straight flush if you're called. This is, believe it or not, an exploit that targets true morons. Only true morons call with less than As there. Live poker, sure, go for it. There's enough of them. It's not about how rare something is in a vacuum it's about the series of events that led to that situation. That's the entire game of poker. If a hand comes TTTA4 and you have the ace you don't NEED to call 100x pot bet because a 4oak is rare in a vacuum. Ranges get condensed to the point that sometimes value ranges become only a few combos.
The only thing that calls or raises here is the absolute nuts with the straight flush, calling here isnât bad.. it wouldâve been worse if he went all in and the guy flips over 5 6 of spades. â ïž In this exact scenario itâs easy to say why did you call here? After the fact, but in the heat of the moment, depending on bankroll size and how much chips are left behind, the call here isnât that bad of an idea.
Have you ever played live poker and seen people tilt or do who knows what .? Always jam he might call just âfor hell of itâ tilted knowing he isnât winning not everyone is logical thinking player .
King and Queen high flush should almost always jam for value here. In Holdem, you shouldnt even believe that straight flushes exist. The right play is always to ignore them
True, I mean almost never does he have it.. but I mean some peoples bankrolls depend on that still. This wasnât an online session though I donât think, so hard to say they would.. if youâre playing against recreational players then yes, but he didnât have diddly. Guy had a pair of 7s.
3-handed with 2nd nuts, where the odds of anyone having the 1st nut is 1 in 65k, Yes 1 in 65,000 and you flat? Make it make sense. Iâd be willing to cut hero a break if the board was like 4-5-6-7 all spades. Flatting here is ensuring you donât win any more money, with no real risk of losing the hand.
You canât do maths clearly. With 45 unknown cards, the chance villain has exactly 65ss is 1 in 990 not 1 in 65,000⊠And even that calculation assumes villainâs range is literally any two cards. When he 3-bets the rivers heâs saying he either has the As (impossible because we have it), 65ss or a stone cold bluff. Heâs not 3-betting the Ks.
@@andylymbo yeah turn (and flop) do make 65ss less likely Iâll give you that. I can get on board with a jam definitely against a crazy or tilted villain. But against nitty or OMC players Iâd seriously consider just calling. They just arenât 3-betting a worse hand for value. And if theyâre bluffing (which nits and OMCs virtually never do anyway) they wonât call a jam.
Call is perfectly fine. Same dynamic happened to me in PLO but we were much deeper. Pot being 240 to the river and me betting 60, he raised to 200 with over another 700 behind (i had him covered). I just called and villian had K high flush and I had A high (non pair board but included 5s6s9s). U do only have $168 left? You're not that deep.
Dumbest call Iâve ever seen. The moneys already in so why just flat here? Whoâs to say he doesnât have the K of spades or the Q of spades???? That gets a call 8 out of 10 times
I can't believe so many people are perplexed as to why hero just called. There was nothing to be gained by 4-bet shoving as you're only getting called by 6,5 of spades. A lesser spade/lesser hand would have simply check called or just called hero's raise.
You are definitely not getting called by only 5-6s. In a world where everyone plays logically, maybe, but in the real world there are plenty of people capable of making insanely bad calls especially at 2-4 stakes. Raise here and I guarantee you get called by worse hands way more often than you get shown 5-6s.
@@evankraabel5415 okay, show us some other hands on CZcams where someone calls a 4-bet on the river with a Q (or even K) high flush on a 4 flush board and theyâre good.
It's 100000% not okay to just call there lol.....you either figure he is bluffing and go for thin value hoping he raises to scare you off the pot or he has an ace or lower flush and you jam hoping he thinks your bluffing and calls... you NEVER call that raise or jam is literally the only play lol
I'm a very tight player and err on the side of caution too often and even I know this is never a call. If he somehow has the straight flush you pay the man.
@d4ve19 exactly lol and even though nobody was throwing out money like that flop and turn so I can see alot of range in villains hand.....I seriously doubt they have the straight flush..
When the caller talks about him potentially being âtilted out of his mindâ I think you have to jam. Iâd agree with you that vs a solid player calling the river 3-bet is fine.
Just calling river obv makes no sense the tilting not tilting has no impact on raising river the itâs something like 0.0207% of the time for anyone to make a sf~always take them odds đ«„
This is a awful way of looking at the situation. If you 4 bet QQ pre and get jammed on by an OMC, do you call off because the odds of a player getting dealt AA or KK is less than 1%?
@@Kanders190 forget the % typing that was overkill on my part,make your case for not jamming thatâs the whole point of the post, OMC or not you have to put the reraise in. I lived in Las Vegas and played for a living after college 2002-2012 lived in Henderson off Eastern in Green Valley area and played every week day mornin w all OMCâs
â@@kdub9918 The case is pretty simple. River 3bets are super polarized to bluffs or the nuts. Any decent spade, like the king or queen isn't going to be raising in villains spot. If it's a bluff, they are folding anyway so you don't make any additional money. You're not getting called by anything except the straight flush. Is it unlikely, yeah, but imo it's more likely than think villain is raising with the king of spades and is gonna call a 4th bet. It's kind of ironic you talk about how you played with OMC's considering they are notoriously tight and often don't raise the river without the stone nuts while simultaneously that a river 3bet range is super wide
@@Kanders190 yeah most of the time youâre not getting paid off anyway but thereâs a better chance of a Ks calling than facing a sf imo so might as well jam but to eachâs own you donât put it in bc you figure you wonât get called by worse and I lean towards itâs worth a shot if omc gets a little curious (unlikely but possible w Ks) just to sum it up. Obv youâre a thinking player and profitable Iâm sure itâs just a simple difference of opinion on a spot thatâs pretty rare anyway. gl on the felt đ
His reason for not jamming is so goofy
What does it matter? He's not getting called is he? And now he has information he wouldn't have had if he did jam.
@@Logicsuperceedsthats results oriented.
@@Mr_Santi907 gathering information on your opponents?
@@Logicsuperceeds why do people always say they're never getting called by worse? This is such a flawed logic that I see people often use to justify being a nit. Playing balanced poker doesn't mean you'll never get called by worse and if that's the case then crank up the bluffs.
@@andylymbo so you think he's going to call an all in with third pair, 8 high kicker, on an ace high board with 4 cards to the flush? Are you braindead?
You just called!?! The money is already out there just jam and pray somebody calls..... your so far tilted out of your mind that you flat call with a non paired board and an the ace high flush smh
Versus a normal tight player Iâd seriously consider just calling here. Most solid regs would literally never 3-bet the naked K of spades here.
However, once caller said V was tilted this just becomes an obvious jam.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zjthe point is that you are good here so much more often then you are beat that just calling is insane
@@Ajfkoeic so what hands are you 3-betting on a board like this then?
@@Ajfkoeic If an all-in makes villain fold every hand you are beating, then jamming is insane.
Raising all in doesn't make any sense when everything worse is folding and you're only getting called by 6,5 of spades. If villain had a worse spade, then he's just calling or check calling. This was either 6,5 of spades or a stone bluff. Hero wasn't getting any more money by shoving.
what did i just listen to???
A fish filet from McDonalds
He loses to 56 of spades. I don't even know what he's doing raising to 102 on the river when he obviously loses to 56 of spades smh
â@@ibrahimahmad1055 you either made a bad joke or you're just stupid idk
Hero threw the nuts in the trash.
Doesnât sound like much of a hero anymore đ
???? just call????
You play in a game where k high spades is calling here or even 4bet raising in the first place ??đ đ no shot
â@@26bisket50 doesn't matter
@@econgator6153 raising without a purpose doesnât matter⊠poker isnât dead
I had a guy check back a flush on the river after calling the flop and turn to get there..And yesterday a guy checked back a 6 (full house) on a 36763 board.. I had a 3 and was ready to snap call
@@26bisket50 if they can put you on a bluff, they can call
I appreciate quickly adding details from the rest of the hand at the beginning of the short.
wtf do u mean u just called???
He means he put the same amount of chips in as the person before himđ€Š
@@isaacgraves06he shouldâve went all in, just calling here is brain dead
@@troyfroman6609am i confused because the video was cut for time but wasnât it 3 ways? If so just call and try and get an over call
â@@isaacgraves06 Are u stupid or what?
@@troyfroman6609 if you look up, you might be able to catch the sarcasm thatâs flying right over your head
Tough hand with 2nd to the nuts lol.
Bro...just jam and if he has 65ss, he's got it
This is why youâll never make money playing this game and you keep the game alive⊠nobody in history is calling a 5b jam on the river there with the third nuts on a 4 flush board you only get called by straight flush, but thanks for keeping the game alive !
â@@RioStaysTrue3 nuts? He had the 2 nut, and do you know what is the probability to have a straight flush? If you play scared like that I'd love to play with you ahahah thanks for keeping the game alive
@@mattias5945 you actually might be slow. He has the nut flush, if you shove youâre targeting the THIRD nuts⊠like are u slow ??? Q h flush never calling w 5b shove itâs literally pointless
@@RioStaysTrue bro, they misread your post. Your post is still atrocious though. Imagine being such a nit you just flat the 2nd nuts when it's impossible for someone to have you beat. I guess you're one of those fun players that only analyze the current streets range and don't realize it's literally impossible for 56ss to check the turn since they can't risk a spade rolling off right?
@@RioStaysTrue k q flush never calling? So basically when they shove on you you just fold every time? Ahahah
wtf how does hero not jam lololol
Tell me you hate money without telling me you hate money. đ
Wtf would you flat call with the second nuts đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
The percentages are so small for a straight flush you have to assume you have the nuts and re raise. He probably wouldnât of called with a bluff but you win anyway
Exactly this. if they have it you go home knowing you made the right play long term
Link to full hand?
Didnât make sense to call he already made the bet the money is out there, you jam he folds you still get the money either way
Theoretically he's correct by calling. Villain shouldn't be calling a jam with less than the A flush and if he's not getting called by worse 50+% of the time it's a bad play.
HOWEVER comments are right some live players are bad bad. There's probably more who'd raise less than the ace flush and call compared to those who have the nuts.
If you're playing NL25+ online though I honestly think you shouldn't jam. This exploit only targets absolute mouth breathers and there's just not enough of them at that level online.
I'll give the guy his dues for having the knowledge to make a theoretically "correct" play even though he should be exploitating the fuck out of villain. A solver would also call. If it's solver approved I never call it truly bad... only suboptimal.
Depends who youâre playing against. Could possibly get value from the Kâ ïž or maybe even Qâ ïž against some worse players
@@olliesutton1804 Yeah exactly but they'd have to be pretty terrible. You could arguably raise Ks from villain's position but you absolutely shouldn't call less than As after that. In theory it's about minimum defense frequency making As+ enough of a call after re-raising.
Not only that but in reality live player's just aren't 3 bet overbluffing 4 flush boards. It's not justifiable from a exploitative position either for villain to call less than As. Therefore in theory Hero shouldn't value bet less than the nuts. But as we all know live players can do some whacky things so in this instance he probably should just assume they're bad.
NL25+ online pool is without a doubt not calling Ks or less enough to justify the jam. I know only the nuts beat you but they just aren't calling a 3bet with less than As as nitty as it seems to just call.
@@kongkronos9772 If I was sat there there in the exact same position, I would be min raising to squeeze any value I can get. Straight flushâs are so rare its almost not even worth worrying about
@olliesutton1804 At NL25+ online? You'd be getting called primarily by the straight flush if you're called. This is, believe it or not, an exploit that targets true morons. Only true morons call with less than As there. Live poker, sure, go for it. There's enough of them.
It's not about how rare something is in a vacuum it's about the series of events that led to that situation. That's the entire game of poker. If a hand comes TTTA4 and you have the ace you don't NEED to call 100x pot bet because a 4oak is rare in a vacuum. Ranges get condensed to the point that sometimes value ranges become only a few combos.
The only thing that calls or raises here is the absolute nuts with the straight flush, calling here isnât bad.. it wouldâve been worse if he went all in and the guy flips over 5 6 of spades. â ïž
In this exact scenario itâs easy to say why did you call here? After the fact, but in the heat of the moment, depending on bankroll size and how much chips are left behind, the call here isnât that bad of an idea.
Have you ever played live poker and seen people tilt or do who knows what .? Always jam he might call just âfor hell of itâ tilted knowing he isnât winning not everyone is logical thinking player .
King and Queen high flush should almost always jam for value here. In Holdem, you shouldnt even believe that straight flushes exist. The right play is always to ignore them
True, I mean almost never does he have it.. but I mean some peoples bankrolls depend on that still. This wasnât an online session though I donât think, so hard to say they would.. if youâre playing against recreational players then yes, but he didnât have diddly. Guy had a pair of 7s.
@@evankraabel5415 yeah but he didnât have it, I still do think raising here is the move though.
Why call you either get the money like a call or you get him to call the jam call makes ZERO sense
Why didnt jam loll
How the heck u just call??? Sheesh I'd be happy to lose to u cus I'm losing the minimum only Everytime when u have the best hand đ
3-handed with 2nd nuts, where the odds of anyone having the 1st nut is 1 in 65k, Yes 1 in 65,000 and you flat? Make it make sense.
Iâd be willing to cut hero a break if the board was like 4-5-6-7 all spades. Flatting here is ensuring you donât win any more money, with no real risk of losing the hand.
You canât do maths clearly.
With 45 unknown cards, the chance villain has exactly 65ss is 1 in 990 not 1 in 65,000âŠ
And even that calculation assumes villainâs range is literally any two cards.
When he 3-bets the rivers heâs saying he either has the As (impossible because we have it), 65ss or a stone cold bluff. Heâs not 3-betting the Ks.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj villain can't have the 56ss given the turn play. So in theory they actually are capped and are just clicking buttons.
@@andylymbo yeah turn (and flop) do make 65ss less likely Iâll give you that. I can get on board with a jam definitely against a crazy or tilted villain.
But against nitty or OMC players Iâd seriously consider just calling. They just arenât 3-betting a worse hand for value. And if theyâre bluffing (which nits and OMCs virtually never do anyway) they wonât call a jam.
Call is perfectly fine. Same dynamic happened to me in PLO but we were much deeper. Pot being 240 to the river and me betting 60, he raised to 200 with over another 700 behind (i had him covered). I just called and villian had K high flush and I had A high (non pair board but included 5s6s9s). U do only have $168 left? You're not that deep.
PLO much diff tho. Not same thing.
Dumbest call Iâve ever seen. The moneys already in so why just flat here? Whoâs to say he doesnât have the K of spades or the Q of spades???? That gets a call 8 out of 10 times
Bart just posts these garbage hands all the time. It's a crystal clear jam since neither can have 56ss.
At that stakes no move besides all in. Amateur hr
Why did we post this đ
Bro should quit poker jesus
I just wasted my time with this one lol
I can't believe so many people are perplexed as to why hero just called. There was nothing to be gained by 4-bet shoving as you're only getting called by 6,5 of spades. A lesser spade/lesser hand would have simply check called or just called hero's raise.
King of spades definitely could have played this way
You are definitely not getting called by only 5-6s. In a world where everyone plays logically, maybe, but in the real world there are plenty of people capable of making insanely bad calls especially at 2-4 stakes. Raise here and I guarantee you get called by worse hands way more often than you get shown 5-6s.
You should 100% be calling all ins here with King and Queen high flushes here.
@@evankraabel5415 okay, show us some other hands on CZcams where someone calls a 4-bet on the river with a Q (or even K) high flush on a 4 flush board and theyâre good.
Good call
It's fine to just call here
It's 100000% not okay to just call there lol.....you either figure he is bluffing and go for thin value hoping he raises to scare you off the pot or he has an ace or lower flush and you jam hoping he thinks your bluffing and calls... you NEVER call that raise or jam is literally the only play lol
@@bluecollardegen get max $$ for bets maded
I'm a very tight player and err on the side of caution too often and even I know this is never a call. If he somehow has the straight flush you pay the man.
@d4ve19 exactly lol and even though nobody was throwing out money like that flop and turn so I can see alot of range in villains hand.....I seriously doubt they have the straight flush..
When the caller talks about him potentially being âtilted out of his mindâ I think you have to jam.
Iâd agree with you that vs a solid player calling the river 3-bet is fine.
Amateur hour
Just calling river obv makes no sense the tilting not tilting has no impact on raising river the itâs something like 0.0207% of the time for anyone to make a sf~always take them odds đ«„
This is a awful way of looking at the situation. If you 4 bet QQ pre and get jammed on by an OMC, do you call off because the odds of a player getting dealt AA or KK is less than 1%?
@@Kanders190 forget the % typing that was overkill on my part,make your case for not jamming thatâs the whole point of the post, OMC or not you have to put the reraise in. I lived in Las Vegas and played for a living after college 2002-2012 lived in Henderson off Eastern in Green Valley area and played every week day mornin w all OMCâs
â@@kdub9918 The case is pretty simple. River 3bets are super polarized to bluffs or the nuts. Any decent spade, like the king or queen isn't going to be raising in villains spot. If it's a bluff, they are folding anyway so you don't make any additional money. You're not getting called by anything except the straight flush. Is it unlikely, yeah, but imo it's more likely than think villain is raising with the king of spades and is gonna call a 4th bet.
It's kind of ironic you talk about how you played with OMC's considering they are notoriously tight and often don't raise the river without the stone nuts while simultaneously that a river 3bet range is super wide
@@Kanders190 yeah most of the time youâre not getting paid off anyway but thereâs a better chance of a Ks calling than facing a sf imo so might as well jam but to eachâs own you donât put it in bc you figure you wonât get called by worse and I lean towards itâs worth a shot if omc gets a little curious (unlikely but possible w Ks) just to sum it up. Obv youâre a thinking player and profitable Iâm sure itâs just a simple difference of opinion on a spot thatâs pretty rare anyway. gl on the felt đ
@@Kanders190 Those commenters and ppl dont understand game at all