Hi Cuiv! Great video as always! As an advocator of open source myself, it would great if this little guy could become the Raspberry Pi of telescopes! If they did that this thing would fly off the shelves!
Thanks Luke! Yes while doing the EAA I was like "yeah, that sounds in line with my expectations" but then I saw the stacking result and wow! Much better result than what I had expected!
The Dwarf team sound more like general optics / software people than astronomy people. I think they built the software in a few months since the project got funded. I agree with Cuiv that open sourcing the software so astrophotography developers can help improve the software would greatly increase the capabilities of the hardware.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Will you be using the daytime tracking features of the DWARF II in your paragliding adventures? Do you have a 1.25" barlow with a removable lens? I'm curious to see if people can screw the barlow lens onto the filter adapter and get the scope to focus.
Regarding tracking and trails, remember, field rotation is going to be even more exaggerated for an alt-az mount at zenith. Tracking would likely be better for something lower in the southern sky (from the northern hemisphere). This is where scopes like these would benefit from an equatorial wedge or shorter exposures.
As an absolute newbie to this it looks amazing. I had no idea this would be possible. Following with great interest and assuming it continues to improve I think I will be a customer.
Another excellent review. I think I’m going to have to pick one of these up, especially if they can fix some of the issues you have identified! I have an 11-year-old son who wants to do Astro photography with me and this would be a perfect gift for him to be able to quickly set up and get decent results quickly. It would be excellent father-son bonding.😊
Link for those interested in this ~500 USD scope! bit.ly/3SyChXu The blind spot is non existing, since the alt axis can rotate all the way back!! Hopefully CZcams's video editor works and in a few hours my brain fart will be removed from the video!
The results you got with M31 look like around the same quality as I got from a Redcat 51 and ASIAir Pro and ASI533mc Pro on my first night out. Given the cost difference between the two setups, that's really compelling.
I'm very excited and interested in this test, as I have ordered one of these and by the looks of it, it really does look to have a lot of potential. We holiday in the Canaries a lot and am looking forward to taking it there under really dark skies. Thanks for a great review.
CUIV! Your video was as entertaining as the DWARF you were testing! Keep up the great reviews, and keep those deveopers on their toes. THAT, will benefit everyone! They also need to be "able to supply" when customers want to buy, rather than have one to 2 years waiting, like a recent example from EUROPE!! Thanks again for you reviews!
Sir, thank you so much for your initial experiences with the Dwarf Lab scope. I have pledged for a unit and I cannot wait until it arrives. However, it seems to me, with your support and contribution of ideas to improve the software, this is going to be spectacular. I live in Utah and we have some very accessible dark sky areas in the southern part of the state. It’s going to be exciting to use it under excellent skies!
Hi, So glad you are looking at this. I am a total neophyte. Excited as heck to follow you. I have received notification my Dwarf is on the way. Thank you Cuiv. :)
Awesome review! Longtime watcher first time commenter… I ordered one when they first became available in Indiegogo! Looks like lots of potential as lightweight, extremely portable “grab and go” astrophotography solution! Really looking forward to getting my hands on it.
This is a great portable rig for star parties, alongside the hulking gear next to it. Provided atm it will not compare in IQ with a regular rig with a stable, balanced and polar aligned setup with autoguiding. This is still a great starting point for Astrophotography to entice new enthusiasts. The price point is quite remarkable for what it is and does, and as you said, just a little polish on their software and it will be even more remarkable. I hope they make the software open-source, I can almost imagine how much you can contribute like you did with NINA. Great and awesome video as always Cuiv.
That is really good! I mean M31 is an exceptionally bright target, so that will help the device quite a bit. But if they keep improving this thing and make it viable for other targets... man this has a good future.
I have one on order, looking forward to getting it. As you said, software makes or breaks products like this, I hope they continue to support and refine the app overtime.
13:55 That's Andromeda (M31) and its most readily visible dwarf satellite galaxy, M110. The Triangulum Galaxy (M33) is way, way off screen. It's shooting ~6° of sky horizontally, and M31 and M33 are about 20° apart in the sky.
Shut up and take my money! If this thing irons out the kinks with the software I’m definitely onboard with it. The amount of times I just couldn’t be arsed getting set up and going through the frustrating process when this looks like I could sit inside and operate remotely. For this price it’s a must if it pans out. Love the reviews.
I don't think they can fix the max exposure time, but now that I see what I was able to achieve with 10s exposures, I feel much less strongly about having longer exposure times!
Your presentation is excellent and very useful. Thank you! I agree that this impressive little telescope is on the verge of setting a new performance to cost standard in its general class. Your suggested improvements and tweaks should elevate its performance to the top.
Nice video, an interesting product. Tweaking the software will make it quite compelling. As you suggest, opening up the software for the community to refine and expand would be a good move. Thanks, Ed
Thanks for uploading and eagerly awaiting kickstarter backed unit! Glad you have the team listening to you about suggested improvements/firmware etc as having someone with your expertise should really iron out the wrinkles of what looks a really fun product. Great work
Mine should arrive within the next few weeks and I'm getting pretty excited about receiving it. Twenty years ago I would never have dreamed that this would be the future of amateur astronomy. I never got the bug bite for astrophotography, due to the cost, but this is a game changer!
They overall seems to listen a lot which is awesome and very refreshing to see, I would love to see the software going opensource and you contributing, that was nice suggestion :) ... Im KS backer, was a bit unsure at first because those type of devices are scam a lot of times but it seemed plausible and so far it seems to get positive feedback - it was great and very reassuring seeing somebody from the field being so excited and positively surprised about it - it makes me feel it was right choice ... Im looking forward to get mine hopefully soon :) ... Thanks for video, I was waiting for it too for a while. Im quite surprised with that end result photo too, it seems like I will be very happy owner my self :) ... and as astrophotografy is only one thing from many it can do it will be nice to explore it all. I have to agree tho they should add some form of slip ring or how its named which would allow having wires in base and still have 360 rotation, it would be awesome for those panoramatic globes too.
I was waiting for this video to come out before I was going to order one, but got impatient and ordered a few days ago. Now I feel like the decision was a good one. Definitely the software needs tweaks, but the hardware looks very promising. 👍
great little scope for the price, can't even begin to understand how they can make that cheap:) this would be good at a dark site as the final stack might be good enough without a lot of processing, nice video as always mate:)
Thanks! Your report on DWARF2 is good enough to see how the product is. I am very interested in it! I also live in Tokyo. Your report moves me to think this is the time to use DEARF2 or not.
Thats exactly what i would want this setup for, to pack in a small bag and bring with me to my dark site. It is at my parents vacation house and i usually don’t have room in my car for all my astro stuff (unless leaving the family at home which my wife would be less than happy). Would also love to see you slap on a multi-narrowband filter on there and see if you can get anything at all. Should be getting a new set of 2” and would like a new home for my 1.25 triband.
I would seriously get one for what it costs. We all have those nights when we don't want to deal with cables and polar alignments and the rest of the nuisance. The other robotic cameras on the market- the price making them exclude themselves from my consideration to buy.
With the tweaks you mentioned, I think this would be a great gateway device for aspiring astronomers/astrophotographers. Particularly for younger users, the Dwarf 2 could be the platform to grow into more advance astrophotography rigs to acquire higher quality images and images of more elusive deep-sky objects.
Thanks for the nice and informative review - and two excellent ideas which can be implemented on firmware side: a. use wide angle camera as guiding camera, b. introduce powerfull autostretching. I'm a 'classical' astrophotographer and I'm impressed by this device for "generation smartphone", I'll get one - for my son naturally ;-)
Great video Cuiv! I have a question: it is an alt-azimut mount (not an equatorial one); how is possible that you didn't get field rotation ? is that corrected by an internal sensor rotation by chance ?
Seems to be an awesome product, thanks for bringing it in!! Superfun and informative as usual :). The only thing... I think there is no blind spot. They advertise that the toy comes with two axes and both rotate 340°, so this should cover the blind spot you mentioned in the video? :P 😂😂 Awesome video, buddy. Many thanks!!
This is a testament to how good tech is getting... If you were to develop something like this long term and REALLY hone it in, it will be a game changer for sure... I have seen a lot worse with thousands in equipment...
I appreciate you looking in to the video thing…. So just to be clear, the desire is simply to be able to save a video file in telephoto mode as a ser file. This will allow third party post processing to rank and stack best frames for lunar photos, allows user to add wavelets etc that dramatically improve these. It’s not a huge deal given the pretty large field of view, however it does make it more usable with just a small tweak on their part … success largely depends on how many frames per second the internal computer can handle and write to the sd card
Hi Cuiv, just forward looking, I’m still interested to have them implement ability to save video in ser format while in Astro mode, this will be mostly useful taking a few minutes on the sun and moon and be able to stack the video frames in other programs…. Ie ranking,stacking and adding wavelets. If your in contact with them again please emphasize the usefulness of this, a 4k mp4 or whatever format they chose does us no good, we need ser files, thanks Scott
Great review Cuiv....hopefully they'll incorporate your suggestions for the software. BTW.."The red zone has always been for loading and unloading of passengers. There's never stopping in a white zone!"🤣
Let’s hope they keep adding suggested features and improve the “out the box” experience so people really benefit. More “pro” features like stitching and drizzle… seems like it’s got quite a lot of computing power.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek that's the biggest question mark - the time duration of support/updates of the software side. If they manage to keep updating the application for more than a year, I would be pleasantly surprised (or maybe they could spawn a third generation Dwarf with an IMX585 sensor -OK, I can dream, can't I? - and a common mobile app, like ASIstudio of sorts...
Love the concept, but was underwhelmed by the photo. I wonder how much the software will be updated, I hope it will get continued improvement as I do want something like this, just so many products liek this get some updates for a few months while you tubers review it, then no software going forward. If they can continue to improve software this could be good, and a 3rd generation could be great with some more input from people like you. Would love a further review in like 6 months to see what they have done and hopfully let us know that updates have been regular and still happening.
Will definitely keep testing this scope - also you shouldn't be underwhelmed by the photo to be honest. From my rooftop in Tokyo (Bortle 8+) in just 20 minutes, it's actually really impressive and far exceeded my expectations. The live stacking was in line with my expectations though, they really need to add unlinked stretch
@@CuivTheLazyGeek ironically the reason I noticed the dwarf II was because had to make a trip in to the Astro store for a battery replacement! I’ll have a look at ZWO’s offer as well before making a decision on a portable platform but looks good for those of us who have had rotator cuff injuries!
Yes - please test it in EQ mode. The old Meade and Celestron fork mounts had software that would run in either alt-az or EQ mode, so fingers crossed...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek In a previous demo video , the Dwarf team put the scope on a EQ mount and a rock to angle the scope up. It's the only smart robot telescope on the market that is small enough to put on eq mount. DWARF II's Upgrade of Functions, 35 sec mark czcams.com/video/v4xg9czITBY/video.html
Hi Cuiv. The Dwarf 2 is looking great and promising results! When will you do the next test in a darker environment? Looking forward to your experiences.
Could you compare the results from this to your “build your own smart telescope” rig ? I think something like that is probably the closest competitor? (I’m thinking Az gti, guide scope, asi 120, asiair mini (or mini pc))
For £350, Dwarf 2 gives, very fast plate solving, reasonably accurate goto with both preset target and manual, highly portable, tracking, built in stacking. As a first time telescope buyer at age 45, this is an exciting low cost way for me to see if I enjoy the hobby without breaking the bank on a particular mount that I may outgrow quickly. I understand that an expensive modular system would provide the best results, but honestly how much effort would such a system take to setup and complete process? I think it's unfair to consider this as a toy, I think they should be commended for trying to miniaturise/optimize astro photography. I'm sure they will improve software over time.
Oh they definitely should be commended - I think overall I'm very positive in the video, and mention it as both a toy and a tool - and it truly has the potential to exceed at both!
While I an glad to see these compact smart scopes being developed, I am hesitant to buy anything anymore unless it is full open source and parts are made available. I am waiting to see how things progress. Thankfully the mini PCs and small driven mounts are easily available, I will stick with piecing my own system for now. Getting weened off of the PIs due to lack of availability has opened a new better world of small systems and I like it. Adding Arduino to a mini PC to control I/O has made the PI obsolete in my world.
I like that you have a broad range of astro interests, from entry level EAA to narrow band DSO. Maybe it's time to get back to some serious planetary given your terrible light pollution situation. That's a good excuse to buy a C14 and a huge mount. In terms of software features for the Dwarf, I think "horizon detection" would be nice to find and avoid buildings and trees prior to auto alignment and also good for filtering for available targets. Oh and maybe a light pollution threshold so it could ignore the area around a lamp post or a particular direction with huge sky glow? These could be good features for the "set it and forget it" user, which I think maybe a large segment of the potential demographic.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I thought that say Jupiter is the best target for a light polluted site because it's so bright. You could even shoot Jupiter on a night with a full moon and it would be practically unaffected. Is that not true in your opinion?
As another comment states, it might benefit from an equatorial wedge. Perhaps you could mount it on a pan-tilt tripod and point the axis towards the NPole. Let us (and Dwarf Lab) see the results of that test. Seems like a no-brainer experiment to me.
Quite intriguing. I am sorely tempted to order one for myself. So, I suppose that from a Bortle 8+ zone it could be matched with some light pollution filters and crank out good images of DSOs?
Looking good. Mine will be coming via Indiegogo, may take some time, don’t expect it before the fireworks. But could you test some daytime work with this telescope? I bought it mainly for nature photography, panorama and video. Saw some footage from Dwarf Lab and is looking also nice, but anxious to see some other sources… btw: Great video 👍🏻
Hi Cuiv. Amazing channel. I’ve binge watched a lot of your videos. I’m new to this. What would recommend (telescope , auto tracking mount or other suggestions to use with my DSLR) for the purpose of finding the crescent at the start of the lunar month. I need something to help me locate the moon and track it. I don’t need it for any deep sky photography ( yet). I leaning towards one of the Sky-Watcher auto tracking mounts until I saw this video. Would the Dwarf II be another alternative? What would you suggest ? Thank you kindly , Yousif ( Australia)
Great video and this looks so exciting once all the software is updated i think it will become a great grab n go . 1 question did they provide the light pollution filters that go on the front of the lens held by magnets ?
Thanks CUIV. You mentioned a USB jack near the bottom of the unit. Is that for recharging only? Or can that be used with an external power source during operation? Or can we download the images from that jack? Just wondering. Greetings from Yokohama. PAUL (jpastroguy)
Wonderful information! Thanks so much. I received by DL II two days ago. As an amateur it would help if you could you please explain some of the terms you used, IE Photo Stretch, upticks and flat frames?
oh man, that came out pretty good 👍 imagine a 585 with a 50 mm F5 doublet with fpl51 or fk100 ... with the other camera running phd2 on a better tripod with a bubble included ... with open software... damn ... and keeping it under 2-3 kgs ... could be worth 750$ up to 1k and still Be a decent deal ... OTOH... I can name a few quick and dirty solutions provided to solve the portability per quality issue.... you made yourself the automatic telescope with the EQ GTi... i would probably go altaz for an all in one thing with the Virtuoso GTi mount and a Samyang 135 and a DSLR to keep the budget in check ... although an tempted to say melee computer and a 585 of sorts controlled remotely :) but that would most likely blow the budget twice over at least :)
To be honest, even my small telescope wasn't as small, light, or portable than this, although it definitely has better optics! For now I'm going to have fun with this little thing!
I think that we could expect a larger version, with 2" screw filters instead of 1.25" version. I suppose that would offer a major improvement in light gathering etc.
@@alcosound @Cuiv, The Lazy Geek The stated goal of Dwarf Labs is to make smart telescopes affordable for average people. Bigger sensors would require more powerful computer chips, more memory, more energy, more cooling, etc. All those things would increase the price of the scope. I think it's a good thing for their first astronomy telescope that they kept it budget friendly.
@@wyk3982 of course. But a "pro" version like the one we described would be a nice option for the more serious amateurs. The concept seems to hold up well.
Based on CZcams reviews, Dwarflabs has the most feature-rich automated solution out there, one that appeals to both newbies and experienced astrophotographers. They're on the right track, and with a few software improvements will have the most compelling product in its niche.
Can this show any Planetary images or is it only for stars. Is it purely for photography or can you see a decent image on the screen... I'm thinking sitting looking at screen as a shared experience with kids. Great Review as always ...
With 670mm equivalent focal length, it's not going to show much beyond the Moon and the Sun. For planetary imaging, you want lots of focal length (4+ meters is the norm, if you want to image Jupiter or Saturn eg)
Quiv, I have another question for you. Have you tried to use Dwarf 2 to take a stacked photo of the Milky Way arm? Is it capable of doing that? Thank you in advance.
It’s pretty neat, little pricey for what it is… it’s a good idea though… sure beats lugging around a hundred plus pounds of gear… I can see this being useful in education more than anything… EDIT nevermind I was confusing it with the other one that’s over $2,000… so yeah for $400ish it think it’s pretty cool actually….
I think it's water resistant, the SD card slot is protected by an obviously waterproof cover - I wouldn't put it under the rain though, but dew should be no problem!
In a previous demo video, Dwarf Lab mounted the scope on a EQ mount. I think it would take rewriting the software to allow for EQ tracking. Kinda like the Skywatcher AZ-GTI mount. Dwarf II's upgrade of functions, 35 seconds mark: czcams.com/video/v4xg9czITBY/video.html I would rather Dwarf Lab spend their software development time working on improved stretching, tracking with the wide angle lens, bug fixes for the initial launch. Then maybe do EQ mode later on if the sensor can be adjust to allow for longer exposures.
Regarding BIN1vsBIN2, with a color camera it actually makes more sense to force BIN2 although its an odd decision and a better solution would be the ability to capture full raw without any debayering/binning. The bayer matrix consists of 1 red, 2 green, and 1 blue pixel, but the overall sampling rate of the sensor is the sampling rate of just one of these channels (so equivalent to BIN2 as the "gap" between sampling points is equal to 2 pixel widths instead of 1). Debayering algorithms attempt to plug the gaps and figure out which color the pixel should really be, but none of the methods truly do fully make up the lost resolution (apart from bayer drizzle, which works for planetary but not so much DSO stuff). This also means that BIN2 is not exactly twice the SNR compared to BIN1 as BIN1 is more like upscaled 200% in terms of captured detail, but there are no real downsides to binning an OSC sensor image x2 either. If one wants the "original" resolution back, a simple upscaling to 200% with some smart algorithm does the same as a good demosaicing algorithm would. Not many care about this "nitpick" which is why its not often mentioned.
Hello. Lazy geek are you going to test this telescope some more. I would like to get your honest opinion about the uses for a newby before I put my money out on the list to purchase. Thanks andre
Thank you for this video. Can the Dwarf 2 focus on something as close as the moon? If so could you take a shot of the Apennine Mountain range and post it?
Hi Cuiv! Great video as always! As an advocator of open source myself, it would great if this little guy could become the Raspberry Pi of telescopes! If they did that this thing would fly off the shelves!
For sure!
Great first light mate! A surprisingly capable package for the money I'd say!
Thanks Luke! Yes while doing the EAA I was like "yeah, that sounds in line with my expectations" but then I saw the stacking result and wow! Much better result than what I had expected!
The Dwarf team sound more like general optics / software people than astronomy people. I think they built the software in a few months since the project got funded. I agree with Cuiv that open sourcing the software so astrophotography developers can help improve the software would greatly increase the capabilities of the hardware.
Absolutely, that's exactly my feeling - they should try to hire a couple of ZWO engineers :p
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Will you be using the daytime tracking features of the DWARF II in your paragliding adventures? Do you have a 1.25" barlow with a removable lens? I'm curious to see if people can screw the barlow lens onto the filter adapter and get the scope to focus.
Regarding tracking and trails, remember, field rotation is going to be even more exaggerated for an alt-az mount at zenith. Tracking would likely be better for something lower in the southern sky (from the northern hemisphere). This is where scopes like these would benefit from an equatorial wedge or shorter exposures.
What if you mount it on a equatorial wedge like that of the star adventurer?
As an absolute newbie to this it looks amazing. I had no idea this would be possible. Following with great interest and assuming it continues to improve I think I will be a customer.
Yeah I was really surprised by the end result, far better than I expected!
Another excellent review. I think I’m going to have to pick one of these up, especially if they can fix some of the issues you have identified! I have an 11-year-old son who wants to do Astro photography with me and this would be a perfect gift for him to be able to quickly set up and get decent results quickly. It would be excellent father-son bonding.😊
Hey I think it would be excellent for this, but I'm really hoping to see more polish in the software long term!
Same here! I'm looking at options because he never stops talking about space but what a rabbit hole this astro-photography stuff is!
Link for those interested in this ~500 USD scope! bit.ly/3SyChXu
The blind spot is non existing, since the alt axis can rotate all the way back!! Hopefully CZcams's video editor works and in a few hours my brain fart will be removed from the video!
The results you got with M31 look like around the same quality as I got from a Redcat 51 and ASIAir Pro and ASI533mc Pro on my first night out. Given the cost difference between the two setups, that's really compelling.
Imagine if there was a similar product based on the IMX585...
I'm very excited and interested in this test, as I have ordered one of these and by the looks of it, it really does look to have a lot of potential. We holiday in the Canaries a lot and am looking forward to taking it there under really dark skies. Thanks for a great review.
Oooh it should be awesome in the Canaries - I hope they make some good enhancements to the software by then!
CUIV! Your video was as entertaining as the DWARF you were testing! Keep up the great reviews, and keep those deveopers on their toes. THAT, will benefit everyone! They also need to be "able to supply" when customers want to buy, rather than have one to 2 years waiting, like a recent example from EUROPE!! Thanks again for you reviews!
Yeah, I was one of those who waited for nearly two years for a delivery of THAT telescope!
Sir, thank you so much for your initial experiences with the Dwarf Lab scope. I have pledged for a unit and I cannot wait until it arrives. However, it seems to me, with your support and contribution of ideas to improve the software, this is going to be spectacular. I live in Utah and we have some very accessible dark sky areas in the southern part of the state. It’s going to be exciting to use it under excellent skies!
"The white zone is for loading and unloading passengers" - LOL! Brilliant Airplane reference!!!
Glad someone noticed!! :D :D
Hi, So glad you are looking at this. I am a total neophyte. Excited as heck to follow you. I have received notification my Dwarf is on the way. Thank you Cuiv. :)
Its really great that the company that makes this is being honest about what it can do. Its good not great but good is good.
I already have one on order and as a beginner in astrophotography I am very impressed I hope that Dwarff lab takes on board your suggestions.
Hope it will turn out great for you!
Awesome review!
Longtime watcher first time commenter…
I ordered one when they first became available in Indiegogo! Looks like lots of potential as lightweight, extremely portable “grab and go” astrophotography solution!
Really looking forward to getting my hands on it.
Hope it turns out well for you!
This is a great portable rig for star parties, alongside the hulking gear next to it. Provided atm it will not compare in IQ with a regular rig with a stable, balanced and polar aligned setup with autoguiding. This is still a great starting point for Astrophotography to entice new enthusiasts. The price point is quite remarkable for what it is and does, and as you said, just a little polish on their software and it will be even more remarkable. I hope they make the software open-source, I can almost imagine how much you can contribute like you did with NINA. Great and awesome video as always Cuiv.
Yep, completely agreed - looking forward to seeing where Dwarflab ends up bringing this one!
Thank you for your good review of the Dwarf II. Your enthusiasm really showed. I'm looking forward to seeing your next review.
My pleasure!
That is really good! I mean M31 is an exceptionally bright target, so that will help the device quite a bit.
But if they keep improving this thing and make it viable for other targets... man this has a good future.
Amazing!
I will definitely buy it, IF the little improvements suggested in the video can be done (specially autoguiding with the wide cam).
Time will tell! I think the autoguiding is less critical than a proper unlinked stretch for the stacking though!
I have one on order, looking forward to getting it. As you said, software makes or breaks products like this, I hope they continue to support and refine the app overtime.
Yep, fingers crossed for the long term!
Thank you Cuiv for the feedback on the Dwarf 2 telescope I ordered one a month ago, as a noob to the astrophotography this device will be cool...
I think it will be really nice, and even nicer with software updates!
13:55 That's Andromeda (M31) and its most readily visible dwarf satellite galaxy, M110. The Triangulum Galaxy (M33) is way, way off screen. It's shooting ~6° of sky horizontally, and M31 and M33 are about 20° apart in the sky.
Yep! Brain fart on my part :)
I was waiting for this video for so long Cuiv
I was waiting for the weather to make this video for so long!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek in matter of days I'll receive my Dwarf II. And BTW I've made my Stellarmate Smart Telescope by following your video and it worked.
I received it todaay yaaayyyyy
Hi Cuiv, I am one of the backers, and I am waiting for this fantastic package to be shipped. Thanks for the review. Can't wait to get one
Thanks for the great info. I'm looking forward to receiving my unit in February 2023.
It just got better with a firmware update too :)
Shut up and take my money! If this thing irons out the kinks with the software I’m definitely onboard with it. The amount of times I just couldn’t be arsed getting set up and going through the frustrating process when this looks like I could sit inside and operate remotely. For this price it’s a must if it pans out. Love the reviews.
It's a big IF though - will they enhance the software? Only time will tell - always better not to count on future updates!
They should add a wedge and fix their maximum exposure time issue, then it becomes a competitive product
The sensor can’t exceed 15 seconds.
@@Astronurd hence change the sensor, not very intuitive to have an Astro (or potentially Astro product) be limited by such an important thing
@@admiraloctavio5860 in city areas, beyond 15 seconds exposure is probably going to record white pixels due to light pollution
I don't think they can fix the max exposure time, but now that I see what I was able to achieve with 10s exposures, I feel much less strongly about having longer exposure times!
@@alcosound being a B9 imager myself, I can often go for 3 minute exposures at F3.8, with complete saturation usually occurring 4 minutes.
Your presentation is excellent and very useful. Thank you! I agree that this impressive little telescope is on the verge of setting a new performance to cost standard in its general class. Your suggested improvements and tweaks should elevate its performance to the top.
Yep, fingers crossed for the future!
Nice video, an interesting product. Tweaking the software will make it quite compelling. As you suggest, opening up the software for the community to refine and expand would be a good move. Thanks, Ed
That's a great bit of kit looking forward to seeing what dwarf lab do regarding ironing out the bugs, but it will be a useful gadget for outreach.
It really depends on them and software updates!
Hey does anybody know if it can runoff USB-C With or without battery inserted ?
Thanks for uploading and eagerly awaiting kickstarter backed unit! Glad you have the team listening to you about suggested improvements/firmware etc as having someone with your expertise should really iron out the wrinkles of what looks a really fun product. Great work
Hope it works great for you!
Mine should arrive within the next few weeks and I'm getting pretty excited about receiving it. Twenty years ago I would never have dreamed that this would be the future of amateur astronomy. I never got the bug bite for astrophotography, due to the cost, but this is a game changer!
They overall seems to listen a lot which is awesome and very refreshing to see, I would love to see the software going opensource and you contributing, that was nice suggestion :) ... Im KS backer, was a bit unsure at first because those type of devices are scam a lot of times but it seemed plausible and so far it seems to get positive feedback - it was great and very reassuring seeing somebody from the field being so excited and positively surprised about it - it makes me feel it was right choice ... Im looking forward to get mine hopefully soon :) ... Thanks for video, I was waiting for it too for a while. Im quite surprised with that end result photo too, it seems like I will be very happy owner my self :) ... and as astrophotografy is only one thing from many it can do it will be nice to explore it all. I have to agree tho they should add some form of slip ring or how its named which would allow having wires in base and still have 360 rotation, it would be awesome for those panoramatic globes too.
Fully agree Jan! I really hope they keep enhancing the software, fingers crossed!
I was waiting for this video to come out before I was going to order one, but got impatient and ordered a few days ago. Now I feel like the decision was a good one. Definitely the software needs tweaks, but the hardware looks very promising. 👍
Hope it works out well for you!
great little scope for the price, can't even begin to understand how they can make that cheap:) this would be good at a dark site as the final stack might be good enough without a lot of processing, nice video as always mate:)
Exactly! I'm also very curious about the bill of materials for the scope!
Thanks! Your report on DWARF2 is good enough to see how the product is. I am very interested in it!
I also live in Tokyo. Your report moves me to think this is the time to use DEARF2 or not.
Waiting for the Dwarf III 🙌🏼👍🏻
Good strategy as well!
Thats exactly what i would want this setup for, to pack in a small bag and bring with me to my dark site. It is at my parents vacation house and i usually don’t have room in my car for all my astro stuff (unless leaving the family at home which my wife would be less than happy).
Would also love to see you slap on a multi-narrowband filter on there and see if you can get anything at all. Should be getting a new set of 2” and would like a new home for my 1.25 triband.
I should get a 1.25 inch L-eXtreme and test it out on the scope!
I would seriously get one for what it costs. We all have those nights when we don't want to deal with cables and polar alignments and the rest of the nuisance. The other robotic cameras on the market- the price making them exclude themselves from my consideration to buy.
With the tweaks you mentioned, I think this would be a great gateway device for aspiring astronomers/astrophotographers. Particularly for younger users, the Dwarf 2 could be the platform to grow into more advance astrophotography rigs to acquire higher quality images and images of more elusive deep-sky objects.
Gateway drug to this money pit? :D
@@CuivTheLazyGeek 🤣🤣🤣
22:06 No, the red zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers. There is never stopping in a white zone.
Don't you tell me which zone is for loading, and which zone is for stopping!
Thanks for the nice and informative review - and two excellent ideas which can be implemented on firmware side: a. use wide angle camera as guiding camera, b. introduce powerfull autostretching. I'm a 'classical' astrophotographer and I'm impressed by this device for "generation smartphone", I'll get one - for my son naturally ;-)
Great video Cuiv! I have a question: it is an alt-azimut mount (not an equatorial one); how is possible that you didn't get field rotation ? is that corrected by an internal sensor rotation by chance ?
Seems to be an awesome product, thanks for bringing it in!! Superfun and informative as usual :).
The only thing... I think there is no blind spot. They advertise that the toy comes with two axes and both rotate 340°, so this should cover the blind spot you mentioned in the video? :P 😂😂
Awesome video, buddy. Many thanks!!
No it really does have the blind spot - I just can't point it in the direction of the home marker on the base!
No you're right, and I'm a sleep deprived idiot :D
@@CuivTheLazyGeek
They should definitely go open source with the software. The gain would be far larger than any loss
Completely agree!
This is a testament to how good tech is getting... If you were to develop something like this long term and REALLY hone it in, it will be a game changer for sure... I have seen a lot worse with thousands in equipment...
Exactly! looking forward to further software updates!
I appreciate you looking in to the video thing…. So just to be clear, the desire is simply to be able to save a video file in telephoto mode as a ser file. This will allow third party post processing to rank and stack best frames for lunar photos, allows user to add wavelets etc that dramatically improve these. It’s not a huge deal given the pretty large field of view, however it does make it more usable with just a small tweak on their part … success largely depends on how many frames per second the internal computer can handle and write to the sd card
Hi Cuiv, just forward looking, I’m still interested to have them implement ability to save video in ser format while in Astro mode, this will be mostly useful taking a few minutes on the sun and moon and be able to stack the video frames in other programs…. Ie ranking,stacking and adding wavelets. If your in contact with them again please emphasize the usefulness of this, a 4k mp4 or whatever format they chose does us no good, we need ser files, thanks Scott
Truly astonishing! I wonder where you/Dwarflab will take this? So much potential. Dwarflab, please listen carefully!
I sure hope Dwarflab will listen to the feedback :D
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Oh man...me too! There is definitely so much potential here.
Was looking forward to seeing this!
Great review Cuiv....hopefully they'll incorporate your suggestions for the software. BTW.."The red zone has always been for loading and unloading of passengers. There's never stopping in a white zone!"🤣
Glad some found the reference to Airplane! :D
Let’s hope they keep adding suggested features and improve the “out the box” experience so people really benefit. More “pro” features like stitching and drizzle… seems like it’s got quite a lot of computing power.
Yep - fingers crossed that they'll do feature updates!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek that's the biggest question mark - the time duration of support/updates of the software side. If they manage to keep updating the application for more than a year, I would be pleasantly surprised (or maybe they could spawn a third generation Dwarf with an IMX585 sensor -OK, I can dream, can't I? - and a common mobile app, like ASIstudio of sorts...
What a surprise at this low price! And there is room for improvements, as you said. Dwarflab should instantly offer you a highly paid job.
Hahaha would be fun to work in astro :)
This is amazing stuff. I have recently sold my old 8" Meade SC. because it`s too heavy and cumbersome to set up. This is magical. I am very tempted.
I understand the draw of this small device for sure!
Thanks for the video, I am a newbie and eagerly awaiting my first telescope
Love the concept, but was underwhelmed by the photo.
I wonder how much the software will be updated, I hope it will get continued improvement as I do want something like this, just so many products liek this get some updates for a few months while you tubers review it, then no software going forward. If they can continue to improve software this could be good, and a 3rd generation could be great with some more input from people like you. Would love a further review in like 6 months to see what they have done and hopfully let us know that updates have been regular and still happening.
Will definitely keep testing this scope - also you shouldn't be underwhelmed by the photo to be honest. From my rooftop in Tokyo (Bortle 8+) in just 20 minutes, it's actually really impressive and far exceeded my expectations. The live stacking was in line with my expectations though, they really need to add unlinked stretch
Awesome video!!! Thanks for that!
Glad you liked it!
Tempted to buy this as a secondary rig alongside my HEQ5 Skywatcher mount and 200mm astrograph!
I've had a lot of fun with it for outreach as well! Be aware that the larger Seestar S50 from ZWO is right around the corner as well!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek ironically the reason I noticed the dwarf II was because had to make a trip in to the Astro store for a battery replacement! I’ll have a look at ZWO’s offer as well before making a decision on a portable platform but looks good for those of us who have had rotator cuff injuries!
A very well presented and balanced review very good work 👏
Thank you!
I hope they enable eq mode. Even with only 15 sec exposure you expect some field rotation at that pixel ratio! ❤🎉
My next step is to see whether it would still work if I angle it :p
Yes - please test it in EQ mode. The old Meade and Celestron fork mounts had software that would run in either alt-az or EQ mode, so fingers crossed...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek In a previous demo video , the Dwarf team put the scope on a EQ mount and a rock to angle the scope up. It's the only smart robot telescope on the market that is small enough to put on eq mount. DWARF II's Upgrade of Functions, 35 sec mark czcams.com/video/v4xg9czITBY/video.html
Hi Cuiv. The Dwarf 2 is looking great and promising results! When will you do the next test in a darker environment? Looking forward to your experiences.
Could you compare the results from this to your “build your own smart telescope” rig ? I think something like that is probably the closest competitor? (I’m thinking Az gti, guide scope, asi 120, asiair mini (or mini pc))
I'd love to see this comparison too! :)
For £350, Dwarf 2 gives, very fast plate solving, reasonably accurate goto with both preset target and manual, highly portable, tracking, built in stacking.
As a first time telescope buyer at age 45, this is an exciting low cost way for me to see if I enjoy the hobby without breaking the bank on a particular mount that I may outgrow quickly. I understand that an expensive modular system would provide the best results, but honestly how much effort would such a system take to setup and complete process?
I think it's unfair to consider this as a toy, I think they should be commended for trying to miniaturise/optimize astro photography. I'm sure they will improve software over time.
Oh they definitely should be commended - I think overall I'm very positive in the video, and mention it as both a toy and a tool - and it truly has the potential to exceed at both!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Wonderful point(s) of view!
Glad to see some results. Recommend the software include the ability to dither.
True, dithering would be great as well!
Kinda looks like the HyperStar results on my Evo AltAz mount. Can’t complain.
While I an glad to see these compact smart scopes being developed, I am hesitant to buy anything anymore unless it is full open source and parts are made available. I am waiting to see how things progress. Thankfully the mini PCs and small driven mounts are easily available, I will stick with piecing my own system for now. Getting weened off of the PIs due to lack of availability has opened a new better world of small systems and I like it. Adding Arduino to a mini PC to control I/O has made the PI obsolete in my world.
Good work. Liked the "as it happened" commentary. Are you going to do any testing for solar photography?
Hey, I'll try solar as well!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Great. If this scope is good for solar, I might try it out for the two eclipses coming up in '23 & '24 here
I like that you have a broad range of astro interests, from entry level EAA to narrow band DSO. Maybe it's time to get back to some serious planetary given your terrible light pollution situation. That's a good excuse to buy a C14 and a huge mount. In terms of software features for the Dwarf, I think "horizon detection" would be nice to find and avoid buildings and trees prior to auto alignment and also good for filtering for available targets. Oh and maybe a light pollution threshold so it could ignore the area around a lamp post or a particular direction with huge sky glow? These could be good features for the "set it and forget it" user, which I think maybe a large segment of the potential demographic.
Unfortunately we also have terrible seeing in Tokyo! So no, planetary really isn't the way to go either :D
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I thought that say Jupiter is the best target for a light polluted site because it's so bright. You could even shoot Jupiter on a night with a full moon and it would be practically unaffected. Is that not true in your opinion?
As another comment states, it might benefit from an equatorial wedge. Perhaps you could mount it on a pan-tilt tripod and point the axis towards the NPole. Let us (and Dwarf Lab) see the results of that test. Seems like a no-brainer experiment to me.
Quite intriguing. I am sorely tempted to order one for myself.
So, I suppose that from a Bortle 8+ zone it could be matched with some light pollution filters and crank out good images of DSOs?
Maybe! I'll need to check!
Looking good. Mine will be coming via Indiegogo, may take some time, don’t expect it before the fireworks. But could you test some daytime work with this telescope? I bought it mainly for nature photography, panorama and video. Saw some footage from Dwarf Lab and is looking also nice, but anxious to see some other sources… btw: Great video 👍🏻
Hi Cuiv. Amazing channel. I’ve binge watched a lot of your videos. I’m new to this. What would recommend (telescope , auto tracking mount or other suggestions to use with my DSLR) for the purpose of finding the crescent at the start of the lunar month. I need something to help me locate the moon and track it. I don’t need it for any deep sky photography ( yet). I leaning towards one of the Sky-Watcher auto tracking mounts until I saw this video. Would the Dwarf II be another alternative? What would you suggest ? Thank you kindly , Yousif ( Australia)
Honestly, this is pretty impressive for the price point. Hopefully they listen to some of your feedback.
Yep, we'll see how it pans out :)
Great video and this looks so exciting once all the software is updated i think it will become a great grab n go . 1 question did they provide the light pollution filters that go on the front of the lens held by magnets ?
Yes, I have the filters, but I haven't tried them yet! I think they're likely better for nebulae!
Well I did not expect that from a small package !!!
Yep, me neither!
Thanks CUIV. You mentioned a USB jack near the bottom of the unit. Is that for recharging only? Or can that be used with an external power source during operation? Or can we download the images from that jack? Just wondering. Greetings from Yokohama. PAUL (jpastroguy)
It's usable for recharging and file transfer, I'll test whether it can be charged while used!
Results look good especially considering you were in Tokyo!
Ive been waiting for a long time yay
Iam impressed,as a lazy failed astro astronomer.
Would you buy now or wait for improvements,it's very well priced?
It really depends on you. I can make good use of it as it is right now, but never make buying decisions based on future upgrades
Wonderful information! Thanks so much. I received by DL II two days ago. As an amateur it would help if you could you please explain some of the terms you used, IE Photo Stretch, upticks and flat frames?
I have a full video astrophoto tutorial with the Dwarf 2 (1.5 hours long) that covers all those basics!
Maybe they are worried about the warranty on open-source machines, massive potential if they can guide with either redundant cameras.
oh man, that came out pretty good 👍
imagine a 585 with a 50 mm F5 doublet with fpl51 or fk100 ... with the other camera running phd2 on a better tripod with a bubble included ... with open software... damn ... and keeping it under 2-3 kgs ... could be worth 750$ up to 1k and still Be a decent deal ...
OTOH... I can name a few quick and dirty solutions provided to solve the portability per quality issue.... you made yourself the automatic telescope with the EQ GTi...
i would probably go altaz for an all in one thing with the Virtuoso GTi mount and a Samyang 135 and a DSLR to keep the budget in check ... although an tempted to say melee computer and a 585 of sorts controlled remotely :) but that would most likely blow the budget twice over at least :)
To be honest, even my small telescope wasn't as small, light, or portable than this, although it definitely has better optics! For now I'm going to have fun with this little thing!
I think that we could expect a larger version, with 2" screw filters instead of 1.25" version. I suppose that would offer a major improvement in light gathering etc.
@@alcosound @Cuiv, The Lazy Geek The stated goal of Dwarf Labs is to make smart telescopes affordable for average people. Bigger sensors would require more powerful computer chips, more memory, more energy, more cooling, etc. All those things would increase the price of the scope. I think it's a good thing for their first astronomy telescope that they kept it budget friendly.
@@wyk3982 of course. But a "pro" version like the one we described would be a nice option for the more serious amateurs. The concept seems to hold up well.
Waiting for Dwaft to fix these issues before I place my order. Dwaftlab, you heard that, fix these issues!
Based on CZcams reviews, Dwarflabs has the most feature-rich automated solution out there, one that appeals to both newbies and experienced astrophotographers. They're on the right track, and with a few software improvements will have the most compelling product in its niche.
They're definitely on the right track!
Would be a great Christmas present for kids to start this hobby
They could get frustrated with the current state of the software, but with some polish, for sure!
Can this show any Planetary images or is it only for stars. Is it purely for photography or can you see a decent image on the screen... I'm thinking sitting looking at screen as a shared experience with kids. Great Review as always ...
I'll test it on planets - it should work to some extent
@@CuivTheLazyGeek That would be great 🙂
With 670mm equivalent focal length, it's not going to show much beyond the Moon and the Sun. For planetary imaging, you want lots of focal length (4+ meters is the norm, if you want to image Jupiter or Saturn eg)
Quiv, I have another question for you. Have you tried to use Dwarf 2 to take a stacked photo of the Milky Way arm? Is it capable of doing that?
Thank you in advance.
Can you please upload & link some samples at full resolution? 😊
I liked your review. Is the wide angel lens usable for milkyway misging?
A question about the product Cuiv when you perform dark frames are these automatically included when taking pictures of Galaxies and Nebulars?
There shouldn’t be any blind spots, if the alt can tilt 180 degrees, right?
Yep, completely overlooked that! I pinned another comment!
It’s pretty neat, little pricey for what it is… it’s a good idea though… sure beats lugging around a hundred plus pounds of gear… I can see this being useful in education more than anything… EDIT nevermind I was confusing it with the other one that’s over $2,000… so yeah for $400ish it think it’s pretty cool actually….
Yeah the price is actually VERY reasonable! For 2000 USD I wouldn't be buying it. For 400-500 USD, it's really a good little device!
Just wondered cuiz , is this thing waterproof? Im always worried if this thing was outside collecting images while im asleep and it starts to rain.
Check out DwarfLabs CZcams channel. They have a water test video posted.
I think it's water resistant, the SD card slot is protected by an obviously waterproof cover - I wouldn't put it under the rain though, but dew should be no problem!
I'm definitely planning on getting this!
Hope you enjoy it!
@@CuivTheLazyGeekThanks!
some of the 'shaking' could be wind or floor shaking?
Can we add a wedge and have it polar with software to get the benefits of a EQ mount?
A wedge would be a super easy adapter, and the rest is software.
Should be theoretically possible, and I want to try that!
In a previous demo video, Dwarf Lab mounted the scope on a EQ mount. I think it would take rewriting the software to allow for EQ tracking. Kinda like the Skywatcher AZ-GTI mount. Dwarf II's upgrade of functions, 35 seconds mark: czcams.com/video/v4xg9czITBY/video.html
I would rather Dwarf Lab spend their software development time working on improved stretching, tracking with the wide angle lens, bug fixes for the initial launch. Then maybe do EQ mode later on if the sensor can be adjust to allow for longer exposures.
Regarding BIN1vsBIN2, with a color camera it actually makes more sense to force BIN2 although its an odd decision and a better solution would be the ability to capture full raw without any debayering/binning. The bayer matrix consists of 1 red, 2 green, and 1 blue pixel, but the overall sampling rate of the sensor is the sampling rate of just one of these channels (so equivalent to BIN2 as the "gap" between sampling points is equal to 2 pixel widths instead of 1). Debayering algorithms attempt to plug the gaps and figure out which color the pixel should really be, but none of the methods truly do fully make up the lost resolution (apart from bayer drizzle, which works for planetary but not so much DSO stuff). This also means that BIN2 is not exactly twice the SNR compared to BIN1 as BIN1 is more like upscaled 200% in terms of captured detail, but there are no real downsides to binning an OSC sensor image x2 either. If one wants the "original" resolution back, a simple upscaling to 200% with some smart algorithm does the same as a good demosaicing algorithm would.
Not many care about this "nitpick" which is why its not often mentioned.
Thanks for the details!!
Hello. Lazy geek are you going to test this telescope some more. I would like to get your honest opinion about the uses for a newby before I put my money out on the list to purchase. Thanks andre
Thank you for this video. Can the Dwarf 2 focus on something as close as the moon? If so could you take a shot of the Apennine Mountain range and post it?
See latest video
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Just viewed it. Thank you.
Have you tried RAW on this device? Hopefully, you can still edit if it stacks in RAW. I saw on the site it takes photos in Raw.