Cultivating a Map to Your Spiritual Home | Dr. John Vervaeke | Cognitive Science and Spirituality
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2023
- Dr. John Vervaeke is a renowned cognitive scientist and philosopher who has dedicated his career to exploring the intersection of spirituality and cognitive science. As an Associate Professor in the Departments of Psychology and Cognitive Science at the University of Toronto, Dr. Vervaeke's research focuses on relevance realization, insight problem-solving, wisdom, mindfulness, and the nature of cognitive agency.
Born in Ontario, Canada, Dr. Vervaeke earned his PhD in Philosophy from the University of Toronto in 1997. With his diverse background in cognitive psychology, cognitive science, and philosophy, he has made substantial contributions to our understanding of human cognition, consciousness, and the processes involved in meaning-making.
Dr. Vervaeke is best known for his in-depth CZcams series, "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis", which explores the historical and scientific aspects of the crises of meaning many individuals and societies face today. This series has made complex philosophical and cognitive concepts accessible to a wider audience and has sparked discussions on cognitive science, philosophy, spirituality, and their interconnectedness.
His work is characterized by a thoughtful synthesis of various disciplines, including cognitive psychology, neuroscience, philosophy, and even aspects of Eastern and Western spiritual traditions. This integration allows Dr. Vervaeke to develop unique insights into how our minds work, how we find meaning in our lives, and how spirituality and cognitive science can enrich each other.
Dr. Vervaeke's passion for teaching is evident not only in his popular online series but also in the classroom where he has received several awards for his teaching excellence. He is known for his ability to make complex ideas understandable, his commitment to his students, and his ability to inspire curiosity and a deeper understanding of the human mind.
With his pioneering work in combining spiritual awakening with cognitive science, Dr. Vervaeke is bridging the gap between these two areas, offering fresh perspectives on spirituality informed by rigorous scientific research. His work encourages us to think deeply about ourselves, our minds, and our place in the world. Whether you're a student of cognitive science, a spiritual seeker, or someone simply interested in understanding the human mind and its potential, Dr. Vervaeke's work offers a rich and insightful exploration of these complex topics.
If you want to further support Dr. Vervaeke's work, please consider joining our Patreon: www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
I would like to thank you, John, from the bottom of my being for all the work you do. It is your word, and not Buddha's, or Socrates', or Jesus', but your word that really transformed my way of seeing the world. As a scientist (I'm an astronomer), your word in this era gave me the necessary framework to understand what the ancient masters taught us. I found you when I was finishing my postdoc, in total quarantine and submerged in a deep depression due to a meaning crisis. I just wanted to send you some appreciation and love with this comment, I am forever grateful ❤️
postdoctoral and still unhappy… sad
@@cathithomas2888most ppl go thru that in grad school or
Later. Esp in a pandemic.
The stuff he props up and uses like Socrates never had a sense of belonging. all the opposite. I put psychology into a mess. Just like this guy but he lies and he all jacked up on eating my nut lol . Thats what people do over the years in bits and pandoras box pieces they eat my nut to try and cure all their problems like ideologies and identity politics. I dont have a sense of belonging. my IQ would melt your head and reality then the timeline and universe and time would be frozen not to the future but to me. lol. The past. plus im the future of the future like I drip into your imagination and what you create I can take and make better where then I would just rob you because you would think cool thanks for the free work. I would take your soul n everything. the devil is a clown.
John Vervaeke you are a godsend & your presence has forever changed me. I'm a psychology undergrad, you have shaped my thinking for the better. Looking forward to my break - I will be going through 'Awakening from the Meaning Crisis' & I cannot wait :)
Love the way you performatively enact the embodied wisdom and knowledge, John, firing the mirror neurons within my whole body on the other side of this extraordinary planet. I can feel a deep sense of "love" for what you are doing in the world.
Sings: “It ain’t necessarily so...” 🎤
@@TheVeganVicar Heyyyy Deep Roy is back
@@NothingTheGreat, kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Miss.☝️
Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱
Amazing speaker, I like him the more I see read of him. And so animated I get totally drawn in. I really hope it’s not just cocaine.
John I'm about 8 months into my JiuJitsu journey, and having your COGSCI input running along side my learning has richly informed the experience. I'm sharing your knowledge with as many people as i can!
***STANCE! OPTIMAL GRIP! PARTICIPATORY KNOWING! SERIOUS PLAY TO ELIMINATE THE EXISTENTIAL MODE BABBBYYYYY!
I have to say, JV has often been too knowledge-rich and intellectual for me, but here, especially at the end, he evokes the Rest and Home and Refuge that we seek, while illuminating aspects of the path there, especially the relinquishing of grasping, in a poignant way. To understand the correct relation of subject to object as Belonging is especially beautiful.
Brilliant lecture. I am blown away. Thanks.
Wow,
Still waiting for the echos of your statements to relax, so I can share how beautiful that
dance was.
I am watching quite a lot of lectures, and it's been
- a few years since I saw a lecture that grasped me at every statement and with multiple hands.
and
- I can only recall one other lecture that I would not change a word or an expression in it.
and
- This is the only lecture in my life that spoke so deeply to me.
It's like you are speaking my thoughts in the right order,
an order my mind is hunting for, for about 10 years.
This was a dance by savior of loneliness.
I have a prediction for you:
Lonely people will watch this more than all sectors of the population,
Lonely people will transform your ideas into practices creating the best map for inter-home reciprocity and home communal care, which will guide them into a strong wave of communion
and extra pressure recycling, which will bring community trust to favor local small business networking over mass-effecting companies, which will bring us one step closer to
knowing the right way to be a home for an AGI .
Sir, your way of talking, your wisdom, your carisma is sometning special. Thank you , a lot.
John Vervaeke you're in my head all day
I hope that is a good thing.
Hahaha!
Well played!
😂
Descartes told me that's impossible given that his physical volume far exceeds the average human cranial volume 🤓
Stunning. 😃🔥🙏
Wow! Thank you, John. Meta-optimal ontological depth perception 🤯. This was such a primal and captivating lecture that reaches so far and so deep. You powerfully revealed our complex relationship with "homing" as something so ancient, precious, and worth preserving and protecting at every level.
Gratitude for everything you do
Love the that Vervaeke vernacular, as usual. Always walk away with few new spicy words.
John, I’m glad to hear Brandom’s influence on your work! Greetings from Pittsburgh.
Wow John, how brutally honest of you - the necessary end to relevance realization in our orientation and the ground of being, absolutely valid for the "mystical turn" necessary for participation in the non-graspable but meaningful. Thought we would have to get to this point and you've done it!! Simply excellent, Thank you! We participate in meaningfulness by absconding from propositional meanings.
Thank you and everyone at the event for putting this together, a way to explore the world while knowing your place in it, your home, is a healthy perspective.
This is such a great nugget!!
I enjoyed this thank you, I appreciate your time JV ❤🍄 i hold a deep breath that the universe tends unfold as it should. but the existential dread lingers in the air and im sorta just patiently waiting to see how it all pans out but that’s got its own predicament.
Thank you!
You don’t stop to amaze me. I can’t begin to express the impact you had on my thinking, by refining my understanding of myself and the world.
I am putting it to use on a daily basis, or at least trying.
I love the “prospect and refuge” part
❤
A lively lecture, Professor Vervake.
Truly, the ‘Logos’ of Heraclitus created a great conflagration in western thinking. In response to your own reference to the hearth, I thought of the beautiful reflection by Aristotle : “There is a story of which tells how visitors wanted to meet Heraclitus. They entered, and saw him warming himself at the stove. As they stood there, he bade them be of good heart, saying, ‘There are gods even in this place!’
The parable of the Geese was one of Kierkegaard’s best ‘attacks on Christendom!’ More immanent critiques, as those practiced by Kierkegaard, are needed in our time.
one of my favorite lectures so profound and informative. So far it is my third time watching it. Thank you Love and peace
Great lecture. The cameraman deserves a raise.
Incredible. Awesome. Powerfully Pertinent. Thank you.
Another fantastic lecture, thank you.
Brilliant! Thank you, John.
Thank you, John!
Home ... thank you John.
Thankyou appreciate your work here.
Again John grateful for your wonderfully animated and inspirational conversations.
💜
Awesome, thanks!
So deep and profound!
Amazing. Need to watch again, so dense. Thank you for sharing your insights, your wisdom.
Thanks John for an entertaining and interesting talk.
Thank you
Sweet! Thank you for your work and contributions to mankind it does not go unnoticed :)
On Point. Shine In!✨
Thank you, John
Appreciate you John
Brilliant!!
this is fantastic! ... 1/2 way thru and can see will need a 2nd viewing as well!
This man is the intellect of our own ages and insipriative hero for everyone who wants to have assistant pure sense of salvation and role model for young people in perplexed souls. The praise for the video he endeavored is not matter of shameness, but restoration of breathes as babies are brought into birth, as existential therapists concern about it. I come to this channel everytime video is updated. I am no longer young youth now, the ways he presents is gift for me too.
I'm busy grieving Taylor Hawkins as a drummer and historical musician so inherently seeker of the dead and I do not have time for this at this moment but wanted to mention that this is a great question, you know, there's an album by LeBrock that asks this very thing. I actually wanted to touch on that for a second, thank you for the reminder.
I really loved this John, Thank you. And oh yea you're absolutely internalized :)
Got it John... thank you so much.
good for you John!
From 38:00 about fire, that's so poetic and true, my man has to hear this sometime 😊🔥
Lovely John. PTF
Christmas retains a lot of Axis Mundi symbolism in the form of the Christmas tree 🎄(burning bush, world tree, tree of life), also the chimney that Santa travels up and down, and the North Pole where he lives.
Wow. Just wow.
Where can I view the conference in it's entirety?
Amazing! We should have a community 😊
First! The rest of the Chino videos are good watches too
I belong in the Milky Way💫
Community and Co-orientation? I think an answer is rotating chef community restaurants. Amateur + professional chefs design a dinner, and sell tickets to their monthly night. People who all follow the same chefs naturally commune. All seating is at Tables for 12 or so. Chefs can do a 6:30 and 8:00 meals and then have follow-up programming such as salons, games or music. There is a revenue split with the house who provides kitchen help and table service.
The end about "letting go of relevance realization" sounds like Gendo Ikari's goal, or at least the his initial proposal - Human instrumentality. Dissolving the barriers that divide us as Selves. I could be misunderstanding.
As an architect I ferl sorry that my colleagues have actively destroyed the meaningfulness of homes in the last hundred years by neglecting the importance of cultural expression, sense of belonging and connection, first scraping all meaning from our homes except modernist function, and later on, replacing it with egocentric post modern self-expression. Now we live in boxes where we do not belong, and may seek for relieve in a box big enough if we can afford it, and fill it with lots of stuff hoping to make it meaningful again.
Positing the existence of an ontological condition, a state that is capable of executing a multitude of cognitive operations-predominantly, the act of grasping-yet unable to seize or comprehend its own inherent nature, we navigate a metaphysical landscape of complex paradoxes. I say this in reference to a profound assertion: "God is inside of everything but not enclosed. God is beyond everything but not excluded." This intricate thought model resonates with the philosophical paradigm of monistic physical idealism, an ideology that proposes a unitary reality merging the physical and mental facets of existence.
The proposed hypothesis could be perceived as a subtle reference to the nature of consciousness itself, a self-referential system. It is a system engaged in continual self-evaluation, ever seeking to comprehend its own nature, yet invariably falling short of achieving complete understanding. Despite its limitations, this self-referential system ponders the possibility of an overarching, more expansive entity or principle, signalling the presence of something greater, something that transcends our understanding. Such ontological behaviour is evident in religious dogmas across human culture.
This 'greater something' aligns with Maximus' conceptualization of God, an entity that permeates all yet is confined by none, transcends all yet excludes none. Accordingly, the fundamental act of recognizing a "being state," or merely being cognizant of our cognitive grip on reality, constitutes a form of grasping, a primordial ontological clutch. This act of grasping may be considered the fundamental building block, an ontological primitive, that scaffolds our comprehension of existence. (Me letting go of 'trying to grasp that whatever', I realize that awareness unto 'letting go' is, within the boundaries of and, a form of attachment; therefore, I must 'let go' completely. That state, I would assert, is still graspable however, but cannot be reduce to anything other than itself. Ontological primitive state of being: Maximus's God.)
Lastly, this subsequent form of grasping, which professor Vervaeke alluded to around 58's minute mark, emerging from Cartesian cognitive map - second in hierarchical metaphysical enumeration - I dub as 'subjective idealism, is deeply intertwined with the concept of existence and the nature of reality that is solipsistic and nihilistic due to directed skepticism towards objectivity; the external to one mind.
It, as real as it seems to me--since I myself going through cognitive firmware update--is imbued with and, indeed, almost besieged by solipsistic inclinations, suggesting a philosophical viewpoint that our minds are the only certainties that exist or can be known.
Fascinating talk as always professor Vervaeke.
Personal notes: 6:00 Referenced questions: "What do you want to exist even if you don't and how connected, how much of a difference do you make to it?" 6:53 Recursive relevance realization. 7:26 Zombies in Western Culture, a 21st Century Crisis : in reference to world view attainment that may be a religio niche construction. This then related to Aristotelian world view.
Volume's pretty low = \ Great talk though. Thanks for sharing! = D
21:05 this is the problem in Dostoevsky's "Notes from the Underground". The main character's mind expends all of his energy arguing with itself and justifying itself, as opposed to "men of action" who just do and don't think. Is there a solution to this problem, other than practicing the art of not thinking?
I have never felt oriented to my culture, being born in the US. I feel as though I have been watching a madhouse devolve into further madness, and every attempt at making sense of it was discouraged with ridicule and derision and ruthless competition. No love, no respect, no care ever. Just simple brutal stupidity and grinding relentless pointlessness. No job matters, no amount of money is enough to protect me from random utter ruin. I watch as everything I love is torn from the pedestal I had it on and twisted into a mockery of itself, only to curse me for being what I am and having the love for it that I did. The economy never made sense to me, and the only alternatives we are given mean millions dead. The government never made sense to me and the only alternative we are given is millions dead. Everything is a choice but we choose to beat our heads against the brick wall until we are dizzy and bloody, then pull everyone else who isn't doing the same and smash their heads against the same brick wall screaming at them that they are the problem and this wall won't break down itself.... I hate you people.
Great writing.
"oh I wish I'd never met you, I think this must have been my fate, to fall in love with someone else's love, all I can do is wait. That's all I can do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
where IS the love
where is the LOVE!
WHERE is the love" edit: enter map as conscious agent
^ here
Roberta Flack
💓
Not all who wander are lost.
Half way through I was thinking: but what if all the maps one has ever known are so clearly out of touch with reality? And then that part of surrendering to the unknowing/ground of being. Letting go of grasping. I’ve experienced moments of being completely un-orientated (not just disorientated). But it is so human to start grasping again immediately (as soon as one's senses allows), and then very likely grasping at straws. A quest, yes, I like that. I’m still to find a sustainable worldview. Guess I’ll just have to cultivate one, it seems 😏
"But it is so human to start grasping again..." well yes we do, generally, but do we have to? Could it be that saying "it's so human" is just an excuse to take the easy way out?
In the realm of self-discovery, I shall embark,
To fathom the depths of consciousness, so stark.
As campbell wandered through nature's grace,
I too shall explore the innermost space.
Behold! The path that leads to truth untold,
Where the self unfolds, a story yet bold.
With every step, the layers peel away,
Revealing insights, casting shadows at bay.
In solitude's embrace, I delve within,
To fathom the essence that lies therein.
The whispering winds guide my introspection,
As I seek unity, the ultimate connection.
I delve into the recesses of my soul,
Where hidden gems of wisdom find their role.
Through introspection's lens, I gaze and ponder,
Unearthing truths, the universe to wander.
The self, a prism, reflects the cosmic dance,
I merge with the cosmos, in a cosmic trance.
With open eyes, I perceive the interplay,
Between self and world, in harmony's sway.
Joy, a radiant beacon that guides our way,
In laughter's embrace, love's eternal display,
Within the simple things, we find our completeness,
Binding us together in shared purpose and sweetness.
For pride and arrogance, bitter foes they become,
Stealing life's delights, leaving hearts feeling numb,
Yet humble souls, with grace in every stride,
Discover love and peace wherever they reside.
Oh joy, your brilliance, a dazzling display,
Illuminating hearts with gratitude's ray,
And humble hearts, adorned with virtues so pure,
A foundation steadfast, in all we endure.
So let us embrace humility's gentle cue,
In work and in view, sincere and true,
Seeking the joys that life graciously imparts,
Through melodies sung, dances from our hearts.
Together we weave the tapestry of existence,
Where joy, humility, work, and play find their essence,
Let us dance with delight, both humble and free,
As life's vibrant symphony unfolds its decree.
In virtue's realm, let courtesy reside,
A gentle grace that flows from heart's pure tide.
Kind words and acts, like blossoms in the morn,
Embrace the world, where love and peace are born.
Integrity, a beacon shining bright,
A steadfast guide through darkness and through light.
With honesty, the soul stands tall and true,
Unswayed by falsehoods, steadfast and imbued.
In self-control, a sacred art is found,
A mastery of self, where peace is crowned.
Temper desires with wisdom's gentle hand,
And find tranquility, like stillness of sand,
Perseverance, a flame that burns within,
Fanning the spirit, where dreams and hopes begin.
Through trials and tribulations, ever strong,
With steadfast courage, we shall journey along.
To find the truth that lies within,
We must first quiet all the din,
And turn our focus deep inside,
Where peace and wisdom do reside.
Meditation is a tool we use,
To quiet down the mental fuse,
And find the stillness in our heart,
Where inner peace can truly start.
But it takes perseverance too,
To master this art that's not so new,
For in the stillness of the mind,
Our fears and doubts are hard to find.
So let us persevere each day,
And meditate in our own way,
With patience, love, and open heart,
We'll find the peace that we impart.
And as we journey on this path,
We'll find our strength and inner wrath,
And in the stillness of our soul,
We'll find the truth that makes us whole.
So let us meditate each day,
And persevere along the way,
For in this journey of the heart,
We find the love that sets us apart.
O seeker, listen to my song
For I sing of a truth that's been hidden so long
The power of consciousness, it is said
Is what drives the universe ahead
With every thought and every deed
We create the world that we need
For consciousness is the force that moves
And shapes the world in all its grooves
The power of consciousness is great
It can transform the world's sad state
For when we raise our consciousness high
We find the truth that can't be denied
We see the beauty in all around
And hear the harmony in every sound
We taste the sweetness of life's sweet fruit
And feel the joy in our heart's pursuit
When we live in the higher states
Of love, joy, peace, and all that's great
We find the power that we seek
And live a life that's full and meek
But when we live in the lower states
Of fear, anger, and all that grates
We find the force that drags us down
And leaves us with a bitter frown
So let us raise our consciousness high
And soar beyond the limits of the sky
For every thought and every deed
Can help another soul to be freed
Let us be the change we seek
And live a life that's true and meek
For when we raise our consciousness high
We find the power that can't be denied.
Dedicated to t campbell mbt
What would it take for me to be mentored and get into a profession similar to yours?
A degree in cognitive science would be a start...
@@RobinFaichney I have a degree in psychology that included studying cognitive psychology. Since college I’ve read 100 books a year on related topics in neuroscience including world religions and depth psychology.
@@Philibuster92 Good for you! Looks like you're well on your way... now what about spiritual practice?
@@RobinFaichney I’ve been practicing meditation for almost two decades and have been experiencing visions and encounters with beings every now and then.
@@Philibuster92 OK, but in that case I don't know why you're asking that question on YT, you should probably contact JV direct.
*tosses a comment to the algorithm*
💯
Don’t forget to share
I mainly agree with Vervaeke about his analysis of the meaning crisis. But ironically, even though he is correct, it will not help at all, although it's useful knowledge.
It's like he is perfectly describing a sick person. But someone will need to take this information to design new meaning.
Knowing what meaning should look like, how it should function, how it connects people, how it forms communities, how it affects us, is still not the same as meaning itself.
A new story can't be a story about what meaning should be, but what the meaning of our lives really is.
It's why Platonism was defeated by Christianity.
Participatory knowledge is real, but what are we going to be participating in?
This is wonderful, however every time John uses puns as anchors for developing an understanding, they seem to only work in English. Wandering and wondering, question and quest. I get the idea but if you use a single language as a mental bridge, I think you also need to build other bridges that will be more universal than that. And it becomes impossible to translate those ideas.
Impressessive prophecy
We didn't "lose" our sense of orientation and our ritualistic relationship to the world. These things were purposefully destroyed because the Enlightenment tells us that what we cook up in our own heads is *way* better than anything we have inherited from the past. Vervaeke says he wouldn't want to have lived before the Enlightenment, an interesting counter-factual, but he doesn't consider the other counter-factual of continuous development of science and tradition without the iconoclasm of the Enlightenment.
Working out, is not ‘fitting in’ fitness is not a solo sport, it is to fit in ness. Out fitted or Olympic ends up with nowhere to go, because it can no longer ‘fit in’, so we cheer for the loneliness.
very Heideggerian
wait what Brandom reference
🎃
24:22 but all of this doesn't explain why humans are the subject of culture and no others. Why are we the only subject who can be meta-nich constructors? It's rather arbitrary and meaningless without a Telos.
I don’t really care what any particular person BELIEVES. You may believe that there is an old man with a white beard perched in the clouds, that the Ultimate Reality is a young blackish-blue Indian guy, that the universe is eternal, that Mother Mary was a certifiable virgin, or that gross physical matter is the foundation of existence.
The ONLY thing that really matters is your meta-ethics, not your meta-physics. Do you consider any form of non-monarchical governance (such as democracy or socialism) to be beneficial? Do you unnecessarily destroy the lives of poor, innocent animals and gorge on their bloody carcasses? Do you believe homosexuality and transvestism is moral? Do you consider feminist ideology to be righteous? If so, then you are objectively immoral and your so-called “enlightened/awakened” state is immaterial, since it does not benefit society in any way.
How does one have a way to belong when the ones I use to belong to monetarily benefit from my suffering. Family, friends, acquaintances and the suffering
comes from smashing particles into my body and altering my DNA and then putting a pandemic label on it all through gaming. Being a social credit module, banking module disease module has made no place to be except exploited siophened in chains on the block. Why me? You wonder why I do what I do. The pain in me is too much to handle.i am labeled crazy child so they can do business and say I am a child who has been diagnosed crazy for their benefit..Try going thriugh this in your 4o's, you would go crazy too. I was an esthetician for 18 year's I loved my job, then all of this, all that I had to figure out by myself and the one you love knows nothing of it, the one who I use to love, who cheated in my home, is the one who took my son and in the background lives lavish and forgets his son is sick and blames me. I woul d have it all taken care of if they did not blow up my car and plant a life I was never introduced to until September 2019. I am sick of the hamster wheel. I never had issues with people, I love people, but people are incentivevized to my suffering. It is a catch 22.
All this brilliant exposition, and then the answers.....mindfulness et al. Always the mindfulness. Its so boring. Both the doing of it and the obsessing about it.
Apologies, i can't let go of how significant the "mystical turn" in your thinking is.For a time in development, your thinking is almost about relevance realization all the way down and for obvious reasons , making the salient point about the nature of human evolution. That goal is now exceeded. Philosophers who deal with epistemological issues alone don't get to embrace "whole life" thinking and therefore are seldom confronted with the need to re-situate central concepts of their argument.Hhere i don't want to accuse you of changing your mind, for this is not the case. RR is still a central driver until no loner relevant. This I take it is not just a clever ploy to avoid performative contradiction, but IS the case, truly, ontologically and about the nature of RR itself if it is to be about detecting relevance itself. Only in this understanding does RR prove to be a broadly co-operative function midst a conglomerate process that takes perspective seriously. This is the small moment, at the end of a presentation that constitutes an amazing philosophical achievement, Been waiting for this a long time. Great work!!!! However, how does this nuance logos? Does this mean that Agape and kenosis ultimately trumps .... even perspectival epistemology?,
Sorry John, I'm obsessing because I'm excited. Is logos nuanced in the ceasing of RR by hopping to the Christic principle or via Nishitani to the "Divine Nothingness which becomes the un-ground of the ground of being" to put words in his mouth admittedly?
I'm still quite blown away that in the relevant ceasing of RR you have maintained all the way down necessity of RR but now nuanced by "not all the way up". is this because the realization of "ultimate" relevances might not act "biologically", the relationship has changed in some way, right? or new rules and skills need aquisition. What are those but those taught in mystical wisdom namely the surrender, laying down of arms before Mystery, that this mystery communicates, is tender gentle and loving and so on. The Christic hop is certainly a well documented route, but so is Nishitanis not so distant relatives,
like Meister Eckhart. The Divine Nothingness is not the problem between them I think. Without naively or flippantly equating void with presence, I may be inclined to think (again not cheaply), they "carry" each other in their "feltness".
Mapping "Void" as the 'nada" in Sanjantist thought emerging from encounter with the void seems to mirror somewhat of emerging from "dark night". Are you summoning? If so I hope the surrender of "grip" is a deeply salvific one. Thanks again
you are not socrates and you never will be
John S Allen? 🫢
I feel for ya, John 🤗