A Lotus Elise for a Fraction of the Cost or Just a Cheap Toyota? MR2 Spyder
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- The Toyota MR2 Spyder has been put forward as a more affordable version of the Lotus Elise. It is certainly cheaper but can it compare as a sports car to one of, if not the best driving and handling mid engined car around? I drive both and see if the MR2 really offers 90% of the fun of an Elise.
Good review. I've never driven the Elise, but the comments seem fair. I own an MR2 Roadster (my second one) and the rear storage bins are bigger than you think. I've been away camping in it with a passenger, a tent, two smallish rucksacks, clothes, sleeping bags etc. Admittedly clothes were laid out on the parcel shelf and some stuff was in the passenger footwell, but it can be done, you just have to be economical with space.
My wife had a Mk3. We went camping in it as well. You could get a wild country tri star in it, the food for the weekend, clothes, roll mats and sleeping bags the lot. The secret was to pack the sleep bag loose and beer in the wheel well and put stuff in the area on top the lockers below the roof. I think we even moved the passenger seat forward a little so camping seats could be slotted behind. Great times in that car. She had a Uk car in the same blue but with red leather seats. I remember you could not hear sh*t in it above 70 (with the roof up).
You can't do more than 70 so that problem is null and void anyway 🤣 - In all seriousness, it was me that suggested this video to Jack, and my friends car that he reviewed (mine is too hardcore for fair comparison). I moved house, half way across Europe, in mine... Admittedly half my stuff is still there but I managed to bring back the essentials without any hassle, and even managed nearly 50mpg on the trip too.
Great video. We bought a 2006 MR2 last year and have fallen for it big time. Sits alongside some much more ££costly metal but the enjoyment from driving it and the satisfaction from tinkering with it (simple to work on) just can't be beaten. A hidden gem IMO.
A fair appraisal of the MK3. Quite challenging to have as much fun, reliably, for less. There are at least two very helpful secondhand parts suppliers for them, which really helps to keep running costs in check.
The chassis responds well to bracing; helping to reduce scuttleshake and improved steering precision. Handling, grip and composure can be achieved with aftermarket anti roll bars and coilovers with modest spring rates. Binning the softtop and fitting a hardtop has enhanced the appeal of my car to me.
I've got a build thread on puregt for mine - it's got a touch more power than stock.
The appeal of most cars is generally in how they are in stock form. Any car can be "improved" by spending extra to change things... but then you have to question if it's better to get something else in the first place? Adding strut braces, anti roll bars and coilovers can get very expensive. I had a Caterham 7 with the 1.6 Rover K series. I had the official Supersport cams and ECU upgrade fitted by Caterham, but it was standard on several off their cars, so I was essentially moving to the next model up. I wasn't relying on third parties to make a sub optimal car in to what I wanted in the first place.
I own and love my Mk1 MR2 and the performance figures of the Mk2 is mega. But I've driven a Mk3 and it is undoubtedly the best driver's car of the three generations. My old 80's model is by far the worst but in my opinion has the most character. Having any car compared to an Elise is a huge sign of recognition even if they ultimately don't stack up. I would love to own an Elise, it's right up my street!
Fair assessment of the MR2 Jack. I bought a tidy MR2 for £2500 and can’t recommend them highly enough. I get that the styling isn’t for everyone but mine gets a really positive response as they are so different to modern cars. Lots of fun for the price of a half decent pushbike
I have a 2ZZ converted MK3 and having owned two of the 1ZZ MR2s it really does transform it, especially with big brakes and lowering springs! If you're ever in the Staffordshire area you'd be very welcome to have a go!
Not been lucky enough to drive an Elise but I owned a MGF VVC and I loved the engine!
As someone who always modifies cars, a 2ZZ'd W30 is a very intriguing prospect from here over the border in Worcestershire.
I have a 2zz swapped MR2 as well, but I personally think the biggest transformation came from the close ratio 6 speed gear box, which is waaaay better.
@@ProfessorOzone was this out of an W30 or another box in the Toyota catalogue?
@@MikeWooshy W30 = 3rd gen MR2 (Spyder) right? Yes that's what the 2zz went into. It came out of a Corolla. You can see how I did my swap on my other channel antimattergarage. The 6 speed was I believe from a US spec Celica GTS.
@@ProfessorOzone Yes the W30 is the 3rd gen. Thank you I will check out your channel. I am from the UK, I think we got this engine combo in the Celica 190 and the Corolla T sport 190. Infact with the Corolla we got a supercharged version pushing put 215 BHP IIRC.
I have an MR2 with a 2ZZ conversion. It doesn’t change the steering but it does completely change the character of the car. 190hp and 950kg is a hoot, and the cam switch at 6000rpm to 8300rpm is bonkers. You need to try one 👍🏻
Sounds good I have a Mk2, my 3rd and love it. My look to get a tidy mk3 soon.
You can fix the steering with moderate camber pins Whiteline swaybars and strut brace. Total cost €400
I have a VX220 and love it. They say a littler softer and easier to live with than an Elise but still, to me, a bone shaking ride. I think anything Lotus built can get away with being harsh as it’s expected. I suspect a Toyota couldn’t get away with that. They have to be more mainstream.
My Excel was not harsh
Not my experience. I sold my V220T after 6 months partly because of the bone-shaking ride, (which apparently is softer than your car!) also the terrible heater and general build quality. My S2 Elise has got much better suspension than the VX. Mind you, I'd love that Vauxhall lump in the Elise - I loved that engine.
I've been using my MR2 roadster for 17k miles pretty much as my daily. I've made a bike rack that mounts into the towing eyes. Crucially for me they don't rust to dust unlike an MX-5. Good cars but parts can be ridiculous.
I admit that so far i have Not driven any Elise or the MR2, Elise looks superbly to me but are definitely become not just unreachable in price today but also rare, MR2 i never see one no one here imported one where i live in Europe but looks like a fun super-project as a JDM track toy (upgraded with Celica engine +6 speed manual gearbox i saw one in my trip to Japan in 2018 at Tokyo show) but Mazda MX-5 and Toyota 86 are cool little beast 2 seaters i enjoy drive those so much..
Mk3 MR2 is a fantastic car. Very reliable. Great fun for a relatively low price. I loved the MK1s (Had one as a company car) and the MK2s.
I have a completely stock Spyder, and while it’s not super quick, it is incredibly fun to drive and surprisingly great for longer trips. I would actually classify it as the second best car i’ve ever driven, after a 997.2 911 Carrera 4S
Lots of cars are fun to drive, it's not something unique to the MR2 and Porsches. The MR2 MK3 was hampered by a lack of practicality, it's performance was good, but not spectacular, it didn't have the intimacy of the Elise or the charm of the MX5, and to me, it looked like a dog's dinner. But then I owned a Caterham 7, so even the Elise seemed civilised and luxurious to me. 😂
I did a back to back test drive in 2001 with an ME2 and an MX5. The complete lack of any meaningful storage space in the MR2, plus it’s propensity to understeer in slow speed corners killed it for me. I bought an MX5 and didn’t regret it at all. Also, the MR2 v3 looked so boring compared to the v2 and that didn’t help its cause either.
Funny you mention the interior, that's the thing that lets the MR2 down to me. It's just like any other toyota. The S1 is spartan but has a real sense of occasion. Like Jack says to anyone who hasn't sat in or driven an S1, it's a whole different experience to most other cars out there. But you can't take anything away from the MR2, and I think it was a bold move by Toyota to make them.
I'd argue that the cubby behind the seat in the MR2 ( which you didn't actually show in the video ) is comparable in volume to the boot of the Elise - and you have the front compartment too which the Elise lacks
I love how utterly excited you are to drive and share these cars that i can never afford 👍👍
Ha thanks!! I do get a bit overexcited!!
My sister had one if these when they first came out and used to let me have when ever she went away so I had it 3 weeks a year for over 5 years. I found it to be amazing fun. You could commute in comfort and then have an absolute blast on the back roads. Superb car.
She sold it after around 6 years with 95k on the click on and it was still brilliant. Only thing it ever needed was tires & brake pads. So reliable too.
I’d have another in a heartbeat.
I have a mk3 mr2 with I have owned for nearly 9 years! A great car. Fun to drive , reliable , cheap to Insure and cheap parts.
Yep it's a win 😀 and a great driving car
I’m sticking up for the chirpy fun little MR2 mk3 as I happen to have one which, over the last 6 years of ownership and about 15k miles has had zero - that’s not one, item nearing repair or replacement, not even a bulb! enjoyable vid Jack, keep them coming ! RB
I've always loved the Elise S1/S2 as they are the perfect classic car, easy mechanics and they don’t rust. Unfortunately they have turned into a commodity and are now too expensive. I have an MG TF 135 which is a hoot to drive on country lanes as its narrow and I can get through gaps say a Boxster couldn’t, plus I don’t need to be too precious due its low value. I do like the Mk3 MR2 but the French pronunciation puts me off!
What's ít called in French?
@@darrendonovan6679 taking a guess here, but calling it the MR2 in French would make the two become deux, which when said sounds kinda like merde, the french word for shit
Interesting comment on the looks of the S1, when I had mine, I was like you, unaware that some people didn't like it, it's very few people though. I think the postmodern looks of the S1 has really stood the test of time.
Is there something going on with your boot, on your age of car I think it should be a fibreglass boot type, I guess the rear clam has been changed at some point. It doesn't look like it's a proper bag type boot with the plastic cover, it's seems to be a mixture of both. What's the dividing panel between boot an engine like, it should be alloy on yours?
Mr2's are great cars for the money though and a lot more comfortable.
Great review/comparison, thanks Jack.
I've never driven a Spyder but I had a 91 MR2 Turbo. It was a lot of fun to drive and one of my favorite cars of the ones I've owned.
Had a 1st gen MR2 and absolutely adored it. Very nimble and fun to drive. Between these 2, Lotus FTW for many reasons. Thanks for sharing 👍
When I was a kid a guy that lived next to us had a red mk2 MR2 and I thought it was amazing 🤩…. I still love them but the mk3 is very Marmite! Like you say Jack the Elise is a great looking car it really is. Cracking video Jack 👍
Bought my Elise 18 years ago for 13 grand worth more now . Crazy prices for them now ..
The Lotus looks way better, but MR2 is better in quality and construction.
Great to see the Elise, great job Jack
Good to see your enthusiasm for the K-Series clearly on the increase Jack.
Twelve years ago, my son bought an S2 Elise. Previously owned by a pro-footballer. We still have it in the family and it is worth a lot more than he paid for it now. I collected it for him back then and drove it back the ninety odd miles as his Insurance had not yet been arranged. My wife drove "shotgun" in our trusty 2003 MG ZS with the same K-Series as in the Elise, only not necessarily in the same configuration.,,😉
When the 2-Seater value -fun- ratio is paramount, the MGF or TF in any form is probably the best value 2-Seater anywhere ever by far. Even nice ones can be picked up for peanuts. I bought an early MGF for a couple of hundred quid with a long list of Mot fails which I DIYer fixed. Kept the car for seven years. During my fettling the MGF, I drove it without the Air Filter connected. So that induction scream sound the K-Series makes when opening its lungs fully is something else when it is only a few inches behind you with the hood down. Air Filters can suppress induction sounds which are often nicer to hear than exhausts.
I am a great fan of the K-Series. Bought the first new K-Series in 1993 and the last new one ten years later, a 2003 MG ZS 120 ( I.8 K-Series ). Both cars still in the family fleet. Before I bought it, my preference was for Petrol Turbos like the Rovers I've had for ages. I waited and waited for the Turbocharged 1.8 MG ZS to appear but, it never did. A good number of MG ZSs have had that Turbocharged K-Series fitted. Having driven examples, I fully understand why folks do that upgrade.
Some years after I bought the NASP MG ZS, I met a Longbridge "Insider" at a car meet. He told me one of the reasons the 1.8T K-Series was NOT fitted to the MG ZS as it would have undermined the Top Spec 2.5L KV6 version of the MG ZSs. Having been driving the larger MG ZTs and ZT-Ts for about ten years, all with 1.8 Turbocharged K-series 4-Pots, I fully understand why they did not put it in the smaller, lighter car. The 1.8T has been tuned to give 200 BHP+ reliably by those who know what they are doing. The Chinese bought the IPRs of the wound up MG-Rover firm soon after the receivers were called in. Having fitted a Chinese MG6 Engine into an MG ZT, with the English and Chinese versions side by side, the Chinese made numerous improvements that for whatever reasons, the good folks at Longbridge were never allowed to do both in BMW control and later by the Privatised owners. Some MG6 Cars used as taxis have completed 200,000 miles using their version of the Rover K-Series 1.8T.
Very annoying that the Bavarian asset strippers and a very agenda biased Government of the time could not find funds to allow the good folks of the Midlands to continue making MGs and Rovers and improve them. Had MG-R been in the Public Sector, funds would have been found as they always do for Public Sector money pits. I am not alone with these views. All too bluddy late now of course. Earlier today, I collected some Rover parts from a specialist down in Devon near Newton Abbott. We took the MG6 and my younger son drove that. he had not driven the car before. The weather was superb for the trip up and down the M5 and some of the twisty west country roads. That was an interesting trip in more ways than one. The woman who managed the business was a very keen enthusiast for these cars. She too agreed that it has been a crime to allow so many National Assets to fall into alien control. They saw "Foreign Investment" whilst in reality, those investors were Asset strippers. All very sad.
Finally, if ever that nice K-series VVC needs an upgrade, I can recommend slotting an MG6 1.8 turbo in there. Been there done that and gets a double 👍👍 😉 from me.
I can buy a new MG tomorrow if I wanted to. Like five of the folks who have done just that down my street of a hundred plus houses. Me being me, I speak to their owners. All without exception have nothing but praise for their Chinese MGs. How about that. A near neighbour has the all electric MG ZS EV. He told me he will never go back to Petrol and Diesel again. His Chinese MG ZS EV stands now where previously, his nice Lexus and Mercedes used to be parked. Think about that. UK Car consumers appear to like 'em. Not my cup of tea but, they are selling in some numbers ... out selling several more better known brands too.
My son's S2 Elise is a delight to drive. I would not want to take it on a drive say up to Scotland. I would not hesitate to do that trip in one of the family's MG ZS or MG ZT-Ts. Or even the MG6. Comfort matters when your old joints and bones have high mileages on them.. 😉
Having driven an S1 Exige and owned a VX220T modified, the steering and chassis really amazed me. Direct, light and fluid you can almost think your way through a corner with plenty of feedback telling your no way near the limits!!
But what's the nice thing is you don't need to be on the limit to be having fun and when you do step and drive it hard you do feel everything is alive and with you!!
Maybe one day you could try an Exige. My father in law has had 2 and much preferred it to his GT3 and found it was the better and more exciting drive. The GT3 was easier car to live with though as an Exige I extremely hardcore!!
Love the Lotus series!!
I was going to suggest you try an MR2 roadster! I've had one for a number of years now as a weekend car, they're great fun and easy to live with. I know someone who sold their Elise to buy an MR2 because the Elise was too difficult as an everyday car. Every review moans about storage but they never show the rear bins! They're really quite spacious and easily hold a couple of weekend bags. I agree about the power steering though, wish they hadn't bothered with it. I'd also have preferred manual wind windows! Keep it as light and simple as possible (although the glass rear screen is a keeper and the hood is manual). The interior might seem a bit plastic but again it keeps the weight down and the design is quite funky. These have surely got to become much more desirable cars soon!
Could you just pull the power steering fuse to have a feel if its any better?
I've been saying it's 90% of an Elise for a fraction of the price for years. I've had the MR2 Roadster and two VX220s.
I had a new gen3 mr2. 2 back in 2003 kept it for 3 years.. it was a blast reliable, quick for its size and great fun
I commented on this 2 years ago raving & reminiscing about my sisters mk3 MR2. I now have my own & it’s every bit as good as I remembered, if not better 😊. I have removed the manifold so removing the pre cat issue at same time. I have fitted stainless manifold & backbox so releasing a couple of bhp & it sounds lovely now. It’s a toy car for me so storage not an issue. Value for money the MR2 is a bargain. I think they will start to go up in value.
Unfortunately most people would want a 355 over an Elise, an Elise over a mr2 and a mr2 over a Fiesta. It all comes down to cost, priority of where money is spent and situation at home in relation to family. Most people will have what they can afford or what is practical, it’s the way of the world.
The five times price differential means that your comparing Cheap Cava and Champagne ...
I can’t deny the Lotus is a very desirable summer weekend race, but I guess the MR2 maybe more of an everyday sportster. I’ve seen more 2 car families with an MR2 on the drive than a Lotus, though.
That's exactly how they were designed, despite them both being mid engine, rwd convertibles, they were engineered for completely reasons.
What you're saying makes absolute sense. The look of the MR2 is simply dowdy...but I'm sure Toyota buyers wouldn't care. The Lotus is an acquired taste in its own way...with the brand having almost a cult following. The negative (for some) about the Lotus...all of them...is that they feel like very expensive kit cars. Whatever engine Lotus can get, they put in it. But maybe that was Colin Chapman's nature...his focus was always on the chassis, the engine was secondary. Good video...your enthusiasm for the Lotus bubbles over and is infectious.
I just bought an MR2 for a s seater convertible. The cars that were in my budget were the ubiquitous MX5, Daihatsu Copen (with the proper Kei engine), and the MK3 MR2. I know there are many others but those are the 3 I had narrowed it down to. I don't fit well in the MX5s that are within my budget and most of them have rot issues. The Copen is not a lot of car for the money, is FWD, and spares for the far more fun Key engine are an issue. That just left me with the MK3 MR2. I opted for a 2004 facelift as the 6 speed makes it more civil on the motorway, I prefer the looks, and the engine is meant to have less of an issue with oil consumption.
An Elise would have been the ultimate car for what I wanted, but my fun car budget strictly said no. The MR2, while slower than my everyday BMW, is a blast to drive and far more engaging. It is surprisingly comfortable all things considered, even for the broader and more chunky of us out there. It gives a nice blend of light(ish) weight and less than common mid-engined handling, and some creature comforts while costing you Toyota money.
The 1ZZ engine isn't going to blow anyone's socks off... but it does make the car an easy cruiser that can also be fun to rev out... and maintenance is fairly mundane, if the engine bores haven't gone oval causing excessive oil consumption. But, if I still have mine in a years time and I've refreshed/uprated the handling... I'll start gathering the parts needed for a 2ZZ swap.
In the UK, specifically west coast of Scotland, we have J-SPEC, the MR2 specialist. Great guys and always have a good stock of parts you might need. From basic bolts all the way to entire engine conversion kits. They are always happy to chat and give advice as well, even if there isn't a guarantee of business. They let me visit their site to let me sit in a few cars to see if I actually fit before going to view any to buy. You have not idea how worried I was that I wouldn't fit... a late mk2 MX5 is to blame for that. Sat with my eyeline above the windscreen. They also gave me some pointers on things to look out for and a guide on prices. Within 48 hours of buying my MR2, I had bought a genuine Team Toyota Europe rollbar kit from them. I strongly it won't be my last purchase.
I also recommend J-Spec. Needed some parts and they were very helpful & parts were as described & very well packaged.
I used to race go carts and have driven a series 1 Elise this is the closest car to a go cart that I have known. Low, harsh, noisy but high levels of grip but little warning from gripping to no grip.
Mr2 power steering turns off after a certain speed, but your correct the steering it feels light and vague
The comment at the end is bang on, EVERYONE who says they are a petrolhead should drive an Elise chassis car at some point. It is so hard to describe just how good it is for that driving experience, it is miles ahead of alternatives. So yes the MR2 was never going to be close to the quoted '90%' of an Elise because the Elise is just so far ahead of everything when it comes to driver feel. Ive owned two VX220s which are brilliant ways to get into an Elise chassis without the Lotus tax on it.
The 3rd Gen MR2 is better than the first two in many important ways: better engine, better transmission, better electronics, better ergonomics. But it looks like an overturned bathtub wearing glasses. That's surely why it's never been as loved as the Mk I and II.
I think one thing we could all agree on Jack is that the Toyota would be five times more reliable and less likely to fail than the Elise. But the Elise looks pretty and is no doubt a "driver's car". Do you want a usable vehicle or do you want a hobby? You decide!
Jack your dead right mate the reason Most people buy a sports car is for the shear driving pleasures, n as such in my humble opinion Lotus's on country twisting lanes they are the Best cars ever made irrespective of price Another great video Jack thanks
Thanks Jack - the late 2000 UK price was MR2 £18.5K and the Elise at £22.5 K
Surprisingly little between them. Elise would have been more expensive and labour intensive to manufacture with its extruded chassis. The Toyota was much better equipped but used lots of standard parts from other cars in their range
Got two mr2s, one has the 2zz and one stock 1zz, the 2zz is awesome. Here in America though we only got the later lotus and not nearly as many of them so they are price around 60k currently while an Mr2 can still be found for like 4-6k so a much wider price gap
I have a K series S2 Elise 135R and a 2005 MR2. Both are great, Elise is far more special but the biggest difference for me is the steering. Smaller steering wheel and remove the PAS and it would be quite a bit closer.
Agree with everything you said, nice to see them being compared.
One thing that really surprised me was the balance that the MR2 has on a wet track. It has an LSD as standard and my car has adjustable Koni dampers and a different front antiroll bar. The fun factor was right up there with the Elise.
I agree about the K series as well, it’s a very characterful engine.
Great to hear you agree with my impressions Monty, thanks for watching!
Interesting, I think your opinion is more valid than this review as you've tested both to the limits on a track. 👍
I really hope you are getting strong views and subscriptions as your videos continue to present a fresh perspective for motoring and your slightly understated delivery (in the best sense of the phrase) combined with your ability to still represent your views honestly means your videos remain engaging and original.
Personally I would have crossed shopped a Targa Mk 1 AW11 MR2 as that provides a raw delicate car that is perhaps closer in ethos to an Elise, however these are getting old and are likely thin on the ground. Plus it means you did something different than to the compare an open topped car with an MX5, which has been done so times :)
Great video for me as I own MR2 and and Elise S3, Elise my pride and joy and the MR2 is used for a pub car and Trackdays absolutely fantastic on track with only mod being track focus tyres, really is a joy to drive and value for money that’s for sure,
Good video! I'm in the US, and I had a 2005 Spyder but it's not really fair to judge MR2's by mine; when I got it it had some minor TRD upgrades that made it handle better than the stock car as well as upgraded performance tires, and tires make a large difference in these cars. I have also driven the Lotus (though I think it was the Toyota-engined car here in the US.) The Toyota's electric power steering took a little getting used to but once I adapted it's straight-up brilliant. The storage space behind the MR2s seats will easily accommodate a pair of soft bags for a weekend jaunt; I really think it has comparable space for storage to your Lotus and it doesn't cook the luggage. It is not as convenient as the Lotus's storage though. The overall feel of my particular car was superb; I felt hard-wired to the car and it's relative lack of torque was easily overcome by reaching for the redline. Here in the Seattle area the MR2's convertible soft-top was a definite advantage; our weather tends to be whimsical. Is it 9/10s of the Lotus? No, and at the same time very much yes. It's usability and comfort put it leagues ahead of the Lotus in those departments, but for sheer balls-to-the-walls damn the torpedos driving the Lotus wins by a respectable margin. My Spyder was a daily driver, and in that role I would much rather have it than the Lotus. It suits the role. Likewise to drive a couple of hours to visit the kids or a blast out to the ocean beach it's the better tool for the job. BUT, and it's a large, meaty but, for a track day or a hair-on-fire blast on a twisty road I'd have the Lotus every time. I think my MR2 was about as close as you can reasonably get to the Lotus and still have a comfortable, genuinely usable car at that time, but that doesn't mean it's really close. Just... maybe a little more user-friendly?
I used to think the Mk3 MR2 was a bit of a hair dressers car until I had a go in one I have owned mid engine cars from Fiat,!Lancia and Matra and bought one of the very last Mk3 cars ,it is a 1zz but goes well and handles great like you said it's no Lotus but you get so much fun driving them.
One of my pals bought a Lotus at the same time another mate bought the Toyota. The Lotus was in and out of the mechanics and off the road for half the time he owned it. The Toyota on the other hand never gave my friend a days trouble. The Lotus may be the better car but what’s the point when you can’t get to drive it?
🤣
I've had my mk 2 elise for 16 years. I was going to get shut of it a few times, but I'll have an amazing drive and it wins me over evertime. You're spot on about the gear box.
I love my S1 Elise. I have had it for nearly 19 years and can't see myself ever selling it. I agree that it drives like nothing else. If you want a car that drives like an Elise - then you need an Elise or one of it's derivatives - nothing else feels the same, no matter how much money you spend. But, and this is a big but. This MR2 is fantastic for being made by a major manufacturer. I can't image another major manufacturer having the balls to make something like that, especially for sensible money. People remark about how cheap they are - but they aren't really. They have the same value as any other small car of the same age. The reason people comment on the low price is because it is just a fantastic car for the money. I have never driven one but even I can see that. I would say, if you can't afford an Elise, get one of these, and for the money you spend you will never feel short changed. Great video by the way.
The Elise is special on so many levels given the legendary brand, performance, handling steering but also for far more prosaic reasons like it won’t rust, it’s general running costs like mpg, tiny tyres, cheap generic parts etc, but ultimately it’s just more of an occasion to drive & at the end of the day it has that Lotus badge on it. Btw the Elise S1 has a huge cargo net behind the seats & easily takes the hood, cant rails etc when put in its hood bag. No one seems to mention this option which leaves the boot complete empty. Look forward to more Elise content! Great vid….
I bought last year a face lift December 2004 MR2 with 31000 miles for £3500. I got it from a 74 year old that was the second owner and had owned it for 14 years. The car is in excellent genuine condition. I did put a good set of olins springs and dampers on it and lowered it an inch or so, but other than that it's totally standard.
I agree that it's not quite an Elese, but it's not that far off. It's for sure the poor man's Elese. My car is bright red and looks pretty sharp but again, it's not as good looking as the Elese. It is not slow, but it could definitely use more power.
The MR2 is a great car and to be fair for what I’ve spent on mine I could have easily had a lotus but it’s been a fun journey. I would like a lotus though.
Apart from a VX, nothing does what an Elise does! They were bargains, but the market has caught up. Mk3 MR2 is good at what it does, & longer legroom, but Elise is just so focused, & weighs so much less, only Caterham type cars give more of a driving experience.
I have a mint original 2001 MR2.. Think It's done around 20kmiles. Sorn it every winter and always starts first turn of the key come spring. Cant imagine ever selling it. Noticed they seem to be jumping in value at present.
from what i've heard the MR2 can be quite a twitchy cat, haven't driven one yet so I can't really judge :)
From the moment it was unveiled, I just fell in love with the Elise. So much so, that I tried to get one as a company car. (Open budget, but completely impractical.) I still hope to someday get a series 1 as I do like that look better than the S2 as well. No comparison to the MR2, which is a great car in its own right, but it really depends on what you are looking for.
Great stuff Jack. Really enjoying your videos at the moment.
Thank you Martin!
@@Number27 May I ask how tall you are? Would help to put the dimensions of the cars in perspective. tia.
The steering on the spyder is actually very responsive when it doesn’t have anything in the fronk and the fronk bin removed. It also fixes some of the understeer the car has and much stiffer suspension completely fixes the whole soft feel the car has stock-and those teins are also way too soft. I’d be interested to see you drive one that has sorted out some of the flaws the spyder has in order to see what you think vs a lotus as that would be much more comparable.
As an owner of 2001 MRS Spyder, I am so happy that you hv given a fair comparison between the two.. In addition, I definitely agree with you, I also prefer your S1 Elise model than the later ones. S1 totally spells fierce yet sexy & cute.
Your videos just keep better and better Jack, loved this one 👍
lotus for an adrenaline fuelled blast out in summer [start out at four in the morning, no cops out till 8]
toyota for a trip down the country, so i can still walk when i get there
The most underrated comment.
The MR2 Spyder.... I've been thinking about it for so long. And I have such ease to find a 2ZZ to put in there as well, for not that much. It's so tempting. Maybe when I'm done restoring the 2 cars I'm working on, I'll get working on that MR2 idea.
I’ve driven all the mr2 cars but not an Elise but I can’t imagine any of them being half as good as the lotus !
For sporty experience, the Lotus S1 is ahead the MR2 Roadster.
For practicallity, the MR2 Roadster is ahead the Lotus S1.
For every condition daily driving, the MR2 is far ahead the Lotus S1.
For occasional daily driving, the Lotus S1 is better than the MR2 Roadster.
I would like to see a comparison to a VVC MGF. Chalk and cheese of course but it would still be interesting
Another excellent review there Jack. I had the pleasure of owning an S1 a few years ago and loved it. Unfortunately, SWMBO didn't feel the same way...Two things you didn't mention - 1. What a pig it is getting in & out of an Elise over that wide sill. You develop a technique after a while, which works until you happen to get cramp in your thigh one day when trying to get out. 2. How the roofs compare. Alas, given our weather, if you're going to make full use of either car you're going to be stuck inside it with the roof up a lot of the time. I know all about the Elise one of course, but the MR2?
Hi. I own a mr2 and can say the roof is a piece of cake to put up. It can be done from sitting in the car and has a Glass heated rear screen! 10 seconds max I'd say. Even faster going down as its inertia will latch it in place on a warm day. Cheers!
I think the S1 Elise is great for a blast, but long distance the MR2 beats it. I have had a Caterham and a S1 Elise in the past, and for ultimate driving experience I would give it to the Caterham, even though it is less useable day-to-day than even the Elise
Agreed. Caterham is better choice if you're going on tracks while MR2 better suited as a reliable cheap yet cheerful daily.
Depends what you want really. I wanted a fun open top car as a second car for summer, having owned a Fiat X1/9 many years ago. On my budget the choice was between an MX5 and an MR2. Got a 2001 MR2 for £2700 ten years ago and have never regretted it. Enough fun for me, goes well, no rust (except a bit on alloy wheels), no major bills. But ironically it's off the road at the moment because of a corroded radiator hose and Toyota have stopped making the part. Have done 300 mile road trips in it in a day but for me it has to be only a second car because of the lack of luggage space. Even the X1/9 was better on that! Would be interesting to hire an Elise for a day or two to see what it's like, but would not want to pay £15K.
MR2 body kits do wonders for the looks. A good exhaust really turns up the fun factor
I’m a happy owner of a 2004 Mr2 but I’ve been dreaming of an Elise since I first saw her… 13 years old. One day …
No prizes for guessing which one could sit in a barn neglected for a couple of decades and start with an afternoon of tinkering and no money spent.
I had a MR2 Spyder in the past and it was upgraded with the Toyota TRD suspension kit. It was one of the best handling cars just in general, let alone at its price point. The Elise obviously is better in every way in terms of performance, but as you noted it was about 3 times the price when new and even now 4 times the price in second-hand market. The MR2 Spyder didn't even want to compete with Lotus, but rather the main rival was the Mazda Miata MX5. That was why the MR2 Spyder was a convertible and not a removable roof like the Elise or even the prior generation of MR2. I did wish the 2zz engine was offered instead of the 1zz.
Mgtf is a better budget alternative. Especially with 160bhp.
Handles terribly, unfortunately..
A friend owns an S2 powered by a Honda engine, about 215HP at the rear wheels which makes the horrible K series look pretty lame, I've driven it a bit and agree they handle like nothing else and the extra power makes it very fast. I'm a mechanic and whilst an Elise is a joy to drive it's far from a joy to work on🙂
I struggle to fit in a MK3 MR2 but I've only literally ripped the ass out of my pants getting out of a car twice and both times it was from an Elise.
Had 2 MK1 MR2's tho and absolutely loved them.
Some reasons the MR2 Spyder was so unloved was because:
- Suspension: Toyota deliberately made the suspension extra soft, and was quite open about it, as Gen2 MR2 were prone to driving into curbs and trees with its snap oversteer
- Looks: Although the concept came out slightly earlier than 986 Boxster's concept, the actual car came out later than the Boxster, and most of people thought it was a cheap knockoff of 986 Boxster, which it does look like one, and easily fading and yellowing giant headlamp case just makes it worse over time
- Competition: Celica of the time, same company, available with 2ZZ, thus quicker, similar price, looked better inside out, although it was FF
NB Miata, cheaper and better package out of the box, with the same formula that worked for almost 10 years just before it
- Price: Not only in comparison to the Miata and Celica, but also at the time Japanese Yen was creeping up, and it kept getting more and more expensive until they finally pulled the plug
I agree that the stock Spyder was very soft, but it was not only the suspension but also the chassis itself. I bought it from a LA dealership and drove it home to San Francisco. The chassis was bending every which way just going over the cracks, joints or dips on the freeway. I literally felt like the car was falling apart. Later I installed some chassis braces for the front subframe and the floor, and then I also added a roll bar, the car felt significantly more rigid and solid. With that, I put on the TRD Sportivo Suspension kit, which wasn't stiff but it works a lot better than the stock ones especially with a more stable chassis.
I really prefer the styling of the 2nd Gen MR2. Not sure what they were thinking with the 3rd Gen.
I agree, the S1 Elise is without a shadow of a doubt the finest driving car ever made and my favourite of all the cars I have owned too! The steering 😍😍😍 The MR2 steering is way too light The Elise is at least 100 times better than the MR2 so is worth 5 times more.
Top notch film again mate. Really enjoyed it.
If your problem is the power steering, you should just turn it off before you do any serious driving.
I do this whenever I head up to the canyons for a quick sprint.
With regard to the body roll, there's a 100 quid "Breast Plate" that replaces the underbody chassis stiffening.
Storage wise, it should be more than the Elise because you can take out the side panels in the seatback storage. If you want to bring a suitcase, there's always the engine cover rack.
With regard to looks, there're lots of after market options for the MR-S. I think you're too focused on the base car vs what the potential is.
The issue w/ the Elise is that there isn't much you can do to the car in terms of modifications, and it's really not because it was setup from the factory to be nearly perfect minus issues in the S2 Elise w/ the overcooling of the engine, the habit of wiping cams, and other issues.
With the MR-S, the car as-is, has hardly begun to emerge from its chrysalis.
I totally agree with you but.... you know i was going to do this lol my mate in the 90s had a series 2/mk 2 turbo import from Japan in gun metal grey re mapped and mate ffs it was immense! please dont hate me in the comments but it was there with the 90s best.
Great video and review as always Jack. Keep them coming ✌🏼
I was looking to buy a mk3 and swap the engine for the Elise engine out of the fast Celica, with the 6 speed gearbox. About 5.5 secs to 60. But we bought a new house and I got a sauna instead 😂
The storage was not an issue with the MR2 when I had it, the behind the seats was big enough unless you are looking for a daily driver, Mine was weighted at 954kg. Much better with the hardtop as it adds a lot of rigidity but if you must have the top down then upgrade the bracing. I sold mine because I felt I wanted more power even during road speeds but the handling was exellent.
Interesting comparison. I think if money is not an issue, the Elise would win every time. It would be interesting to look at what mods are available for the MR2 and how much it would cost on top of the purchase price to bring it up to spec. Of course, if looks are a major deciding factor, no amount of money is going to change that and I personally agree the Elise is a far nicer looking car. But at the same time, I would be more than happy to live with a nice clean example of an MR2.
In terms of mod, MR2 can have 2zz swapped with handling mods for very little money. One of the most underrated cars out there.
@@kila_whale Thanks for filling us in on that. It is what I suspected and it is the case with most Japanese cars.
Regarding the pace, it’s the long ratios in the gear box. I recon the box was taken straight out of an saloon. Apparently an Ex TTE (developed all the Toyota WRC cars in the 80s/90s/20s) engineer turbo charged his 😎.
Whoah! The sheer number of comments you've attracted on this one Jack, says you've really struck a chord with people. I always enjoy your videos, but this is particularly the type of review I really like - comparing two cars aimed at enthusiasts.
I had a Mk3 MR2 until last summer, when I replaced it with a 987 Boxster. The 2 was fun as general transport, but the handling of the Boxster is more to my personal taste, being noticeably more neutral and therefore confidence inspiring. The biggest difference immediately noticeable was ride quality - Porsche is drastically harsher; both cars totally standard and low mileage. Porsche also louder. I miss the tiny supermini size of the 2 compared to Porsche Golf sized dimensions. I wish Porsche would start a sub-brand and do a (rust proofed) MX5 rival.
I prefer the original MR2 "wedge" styling to the "Slab" styling of the 3rd gen.
Great review. Having had a few mk3 mr2’s I think for the money it’s an absolutely cracking car, bit soft, bit lardy, bit slow, but do a few things to it, it becomes really nice on track. I fitted a Honda k20 in my last one and doing k24 in my current one with lots of other bits to make it more of a focussed trackcar, but without getting rid of 200kg it will always feel less nimble than the Elise. If you were to pay someone to do the engine swap you would end up with a Elise priced mr2 with similar power to weight, As a road car I would want the Elise, but on track, I’d be too scared to crash the Elise! Super cheap to sort out a dented up mr2 as nearly all the panels unbolt.
would have liked to have seen the comparison with an Elise with a stock engine or an MR2 with a k series
I am a larger guy and the 1 time I test drove an Elise (S2 here in the states), the ingress/egress was almost prohibitive for me.. so that would give the edge to an MR2! I’ll tell you a car that I think can run with cars 2X or more it’s price is a Honda S2K… I traded it for an Audi R8 Spyder V10 gated thinking the high RPM and open top manual experience would translate, and preferred driving the Honda!
That MR2 looks rough as a badgers arse. Really wish you had got hold of a clean facelift car.
The Elise looks a lot, lot better - that is for sure.
That's my only gripe with the MR2. They're brilliant value, good fun for the money, reliable enough, but they just don't look great. In fact not even close to great, I think if you said you were going to make this type of car then this is the blandest, flabbiest look it could possibly be.
Great video as always Jack. The 1st and 2nd gen MR2's were pretty little things, but the 3rd gen, in my eyes, is absolutely awful. I've never driven one but that's because I hate the look of them. I have an MGF for the summer which I love. Cheap as chips and, in my eyes again, pretty. Look forward to the next video. 👍👍
Good point on the MGF! Can you get your hands on one Jack to do a comparison?
Oh bless! Shame you never drove one you wouldn’t have had to sit on top of an MGF ;)
mr2 is streets a head of a mgf ive owned both mgf does not handle very well and you feel like your sat on top of it was just ok to be honest just before the head gasket blew and it all fell apart there engines are bad !!!
@@5uperhands Shame you never learnt to sing but we all have a cross to bear eh?
@@davidcollin7466 As Jack said, look after your K series and its fine. Mine's had no major work at all and It's covered nealy 100K. MGF doesn't handle well? Hmmm...yours a ropey example then?
The Elise is on a different planet for feel and handing and they are going up in value so you could end up owning for free or even making money I have had my s1 160 for a year and could sell it for 25% more than I paid right now
I have always suspected that the MR-S (MR-2 Spyder) was about 50% of an Elise to use your analogy. Unfortunately I live in north america so I'm not allowed to have a car with no bumpers.
Should do a 4 way test
Elise
VX220
MR2
Boxster
nice video, I would have thought you could have gone the whole nine yards & tracked down an MG TF to join the party lol.
My friend has a silver MR2, he loves it
Hi Jack...I have only 3 things to say.
M, X and 5.
Beautiful, fun and really practical.