Some ranges are run by crazy people
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- čas přidán 24. 02. 2024
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I was the guy that posted it. My contact on the squad that got DQ'd was literally so livid he couldn't sleep at night. They've since suspended anyone that commented on the post for 30 days as far as I know and they've started making ppl register so they can pick and choose who gets into the match. My crew registered at the same time for the match on Sat at PRG. They never let me in. Everyone else got it fine. Pretty sure I'm banned just for posting it. No contact. No reason. Better matches in up north anyway. Just have to drive a bit farther. Good times. I''m a firm believer in doing the right thing and creating awareness of the fuddery had to be done. I did my best to only provide facts and no opinions. Apparently that was too much for them to handle. Thanks for posting.
I was one of the DQed shooters. You really can't make this stuff. Thanks for doing the video Ben!
I appreciate the comment. The situation is crazy.
I used to belong to a gun club in Kansas that required NRA membership and hosted monthly USPSA matches. We had a large bay reserved for “action pistol” shooting practice, until the officers of the club (old guys who mostly just shot .22 rifles) arbitrarily decided what we did was dangerous and ironically even called us “militia members”. They closed the bay to us, and stopped the monthly matches. Needless to say, I dropped my membership.
Did you shoot more than one round every 50 seconds? I mean thats dangerous. LOL
Ugh. I hope that's not my range but it sounds like it could be any of the ranges I've been a member of.
I'm not signing up for any club that requires NRA membership. That's a red flag right there
U have a halo above your head lol
The patron saint of practical shooting
It's like that in any hobby/sport/whatever. Some people have nothing else going for them and any tiny amount of power goes to their head immediately.
Like the hoa 😂
@@FishFind3000HOA is the modern name we give to the mafia. They are mobsters.
I used to belong to a club in NM that was anti "action pistol" shooting (NRGSC). They chased out the IDPA match director and refuse to allow anyone to start them up again. The club is run by a small clique of old shotgunners unwilling to let anyone else run events. They wouldn't let me renew my membership and refused to respond to any communication. A bad board with bad communication can ruin a club. Fortunately, there are several better ranges around.
OOF that's a crazy instance of power-tripping.
I avoid indoor ranges whenever possible to avoid range fudds.
I'm 53, a veteran 4yr 1990s & a ccw user. Since 2002. My city- area has a large tourist, business travel crowd so safety, gun use, range SOPs 📋 in 2024 are 😕.
Most ranges are ran by fudds unfortunately even clubs. They all support background checks & mandatory training which is fuddish
Fudds exist in outdoor ranges too.
Living in Utah it's the outdoor ranges that all the fudds use. Indoor ranges are all super chill. I can go from the holster at all of them.
@@ImperiumLibertas Holster use is a rarity for most indoor ranges I've ever been in, unless you're in sanctioned training or matches. Nice!
Yesterday, while chatting about cigars, I asked the range master about his stance on fast firing and holster drawing. He's cool with it as long as folks give him a heads up. He like to keep an eye on the first few draws to weed out any idiot behavior.
We were the only ones at the range... right up until a kid walks in and it seems like Im getting the ass chew of a lifetime for doing those things 😂
Just wanted you guys to know that the default volume is pretty low, apart from that, the quality is great.
The steel practice bays at Phoenix Rod and Gun club are nice, as a member with a gate key I’m completely left alone.
20 years ago i got into 3 gun and the old fudds that averaged 80 years old hated our group so much because we would make all three of out weapons ready at the beginning of each stage. they wanted us to run cold matches like the fclass guys. one of them literally wanted us to have empty mags that would couldn't be loaded until the make ready command. it was pretty funny whenever one of them would come by trying to make up rules and our match director would have to literally tell him to go f off. the monthly match made the club tons of money so they never cancelled it. "unfortunately" they have all died off and we're pretty chill now.
Oh jesus fucking christ
In south florida it's pretty bad. You can find ranges that let you shoot how you want, rapid fire/doubles, etc. But won't let you draw from a holster. Unless you spend $100+ for a private class. Then the state/county ranges are even worse. The state/county ranges are extremely well kept and are nice to go to, but you can't shoot more than 1 round every 2 seconds, and absolutely will not let you draw from a holster. So essentially, your options are dry fire and shoot as many local matches as possible.
Most a lot of ranges don’t allow holster draws due to liability reasons. One large company here banned holster draws after an ND or injury, I can’t remember which. Stupid people do stupid things and ruin it for everyone else.
I've had the same experience in FL. Finally found a place a couple years ago that'll let you rent bays, shoot from holster, multiple targets, rapid fire, etc. It is probably the only range in the area that does that for like 75 sq miles
Thats what i do! OKC every weekend, occasional trip to deep 50 or SFLPC or Homestead, for a match the rest of the time is dry fire. I dint bother with indoor ranges unless it is to zero before a comp
Man you east coast guys got it bad. In Utah it's free game almost everywhere. I don't know a range that doesn't allow drawing from holsters. Most ranges rent select fire guns here.
The struggle in Florida is real. The 1 round every 2 seconds rule kills me. I understand not mag dumping, but it'd be nice to be able to practice real drills because that is how you get proficient. Especially if you're using your EDC.
Without revealing too much personal info - I live in a strict and gun unfriendly state where good ranges are few and far between - most often run corruptly or incompetently. I was up until recently a member of one of the best clubs in the state, excellent facilities however with a very fudd-minded board.
Last month, I was banned, membership revoked, and told I would not be allowed onto the property for any competitions or as a guest. I was banned for drawing and firing from a holster in one of the private "action" pit lanes. When I was approached by the roving RSO patrol, I told the guy I had my "draw and fire" credentials expressly written from the club to practice USPSA, and demonstrated competency in several matches to get that written badge. The RSO told me I was cool to keep shooting, and told me I wasn't being unsafe he just had to check to 'cover himself.' It was obvious to me then the club was being run as a corrupt bureaucracy by people with nothing better to do - all too common in my state.
They sent me certified mail after the fact on two seperate occasions. The first "summoning" me to a board meeting so I could be 'disciplined.' I am a grown man and so is the rest of the board, and not having broken any rules. I reached out to the board and informed them I would not be attending due to work and the meetings being once a month on a weekday evening.
While I may have thought this was a reasonable request - the latter letter sent was to inform me my membership was being revoked and I would be trespassed if I ever showed face there again.
Moral of the story is make friends and find private land to shoot on. Clubs may be fine for matches, but as long as the fudd culture lives on - people who simply want to train and improve will be persecuted by a nonsensical backwards culture.
Im in CA and one of the ranges I shoot at has unused bays to the left and right of the pistol bays. Guys regularly use them before a match to check their dot zeros and nobody has a problem with it. Everyone is always chill and there is never any drama. I didn’t realize I had it so good
Wow! That's unreal!
The thumbnail for this video makes it look like you're either about to be crowned king or forced to wear a crown of thorns...
Agree regarding range reset. I usually implement something similar with my sqaud during a match, have rotating "work details" so not everybody is out there at the same time patching and resetting
Shit like this just makes me want to stay home and dry fire instead of trying to compete...
One of the ranges I belong to is run by fudds. There are some good guys but most are old fudds. They will "allow" you to draw from holster but only after you take a little class and get approved to do so and they do run a monthly IDPA match but even the guy that runs them has issues with the officers of the clubs. Old dudes are funny as hell.
A class isn't a horrible cover your ass approach tbh but some clubs make it ungodly onerus
It is stories like this that really discourage me from ever trying a USPSA match.
Go ahead and shoot a match. Just don't buy a membership.
Most matches are a good time, but just don’t buy a membership
My club is pretty chill thankfully.
I visited some upscale sections of Nashville TN. Some of the indoor gun places are ok but the fees, RSOs/mgrs are 🤷🏻♂️. Lenny Magills Glock Store place isn't bad but it's $$$ for what they offer & the GS staff can be rude, bad tempers. In 2024, US this isn't uncommon. 🛒
This is why having your own range is a must.
Used to live in Greenville Pennsylvania and there is a nice range there. Totally run by FUDDS. Only time I went there was when I had some handloads to do.
Drawing a loaded weapon during league play contravenes a number of our bylaws
Isn’t the whole reason we pay fees for USPSA so that it’s like McDonald’s? You know what you’re going to get in terms of rules, no matter where you are in the country? Is this MD bringing disrepute to the sport?
I agree this MD and the club that is permitting this is really hurting USPSA. If I get back in zero shot I ever go to that club.
@@BenStoeger187iv always argued the ability to do range rule stuff like no muzzles over the Bern reloading damages USPSA because it means you don't get identical results at every club.
Not defending this guy… but USPSA sets match rules, but that does not setup anything regarding match setup or range rules. Those type of things are left to local clubs and ranges.
The states that consider themselves ProGun tend to have the most anti-gun ranges/stores and attitudes. I went to a USPSA match in AZ, and my CA license plates made everyone rude and give me a hard time, which I kinda expected and can't really blame them fully given the average Californian..., but comeon, you'd think someone willing to drive that to a shooting sport would be progun lol. Didn't help that I was a random man who out shot some of their best boys that day. They didn't want to give me reshoots on stage failures completely outside of my control. And then they uploaded the wrong scores which I had to get straightned out with a match director. I went in to buy ammo at Tombstone Tactical in Phoenix AZ and they told me they don't sell to people from CA. Last time I checked that's not even a law, that's just their store policy. Turns out the USPSA crowd in CA is way better, makes sense too since that's a huge part of the sports history and also thats where a lot of the best shooters come from. Counter intuitive but that's the way she goes. I couldn't believe AZ went blue during the last election but after this last trip over there, makes sense.
Cali has a history of threatening shops that sell to cali residents especially since the ammo background check law sadly
Dont know if you have visited and shot in the Philippines Ben but if you havent, I think you are going to like it here, especially during matches. That said, I think we shootes here are a bit too pampered. We have our own shooting caddies and they pick up the brass for us, reload our mags and will give you tips along the way. They dont cost much too. Also no worrying about resetting stages and what not during matches, even in Level 1s. Just pay your match fees and concentrate on your shooting.
The way that range is running registration for matches now is that when you sign up, you get waitlisted and have to get prior approval via email before being able to pay and pick a squad. My guess is because they have to manually look at all the individual people that try to register and make sure suspended people don’t register for a match. For example, yesterday a match at PRG opened up at noon and I signed up to get waitlisted AT NOON. 13 hours later I still haven’t gotten an approval email and checked the roster for the match and the damn thing was full.
Lonnie Roberts isn’t doing his job….
One thing I've learned is that it is usually people who do not have the proper maturity and emotional fitness to be in charge of anyone who end up in charge in any organization that doesn't have people with a good mindset picking leaders/managers/whatever. Sadly with no checks and balances in place to weed them out, it is almost always people who need the power to soothe their insecurities that end seeking authority and so end up being in charge. Such people then exorcise their authority in petty, vengeful ways like this. It is a sad irony that the people can be trusted to be in authority are the types of people who would not seek authority over others in the first place.
Yeah, I've gotten to where I now avoid organized ranges like the plague.
this is crazy. also, volume levels seem low, i have it on full blast and it was tough to hear
Most people will follow the rules..... AS LONG AS THEY KNOW THE RULES beforehand...I bet that Arizona MD didn't tell that squad how to breakdown the stage or was telling them too many rules....sound like that MD is incorrigible...😢
So much dumb stuff at so many ranges. USSA in Tulsa seems like a near perfect range setup for large matches, but recently decided they won’t host any competition shooting after May 1.
🇺🇸
Things are pretty great by comparison here in Idaho. The ranges allow us to train in pretty realistic ways and plenty of people help set up and tear down. It only takes a few minutes to clean up after a match.
Oops, did I say Idaho? I meant Iowa. 😊
People ask us why we built our own range. This is the reason.
Did you position yourself under the halo/chandelier on purpose?Lol
Audio is lower than normal on iPad but still easy enough to hear
That match director is a Richard.
How we do it at our matches is if you are on Deck or in the Hole you dont need to paste the targets. Some shooters still do when in the Hole . We make this known at the beginning of the match .
Only 1 range will ask if you have time to help break the stages down . There is a trailer parked 25ft away from the stage. You do not need to help break down but with 12 shooters it takes a whopping 5 to 10min to break down .
That's freaking BS the whole squad dot Dq'd. That seems like a super dick move because of their Ego .
I’m not a competitor shooter, but I do shoot at some local ranges. Range USA doesn’t allow for you to draw from the holster or perform rapid fire shots. It’s a range for beginners in which the RO is constantly having to redirect the shooters. If you have any experience for Firearms, this is a place not to visit.
This is common when people who have never supervised or directed people get some modicum of power and control over an event. Suddenly they are large and in charge.
Range fudds everywhere.
Ben,
Im in north phx. If you want some company during practice, let me know.
The BLM ranges up by lake pleasant aren’t bad during the week
I live in north Phoenix too and typically shoot at C2 because it's close. Where is the closest place to shoot in the desert from north Phoenix?
@@johnrebel8925during work hours are the only time they’re usable, I’m one of the RO’s out there and Church Camp is completely unusable for safety reasons during the weekend. Great resource that is terribly understaffed.
@@billhicks3415lake pleasant area, if you are closer to scottsdale go to tonto ntl forest. BLM has a map on their website of the land they manage.
It never ceases to amaze me how people with the mentality of these guys who banned shooters over such a trivial task get into a position of power. How does the club not see this and I'm sure other examples they have said/done and think this is not a good choice to lead our facility.
Local club started PCSL in october/november. January they planned a 2 gun match (we have no 2 gun matches locally) only 2 clubs that occasionally do 3 gun. They canceled the 2 gun match citing safety concerns. Then scheduled a rifle match for the end of February (would have been yesterday the 25th) also canceled "due to the board) and all other PCSL matches have been postoponed/cancelled for the time being. I think its because the USPSA/IDPA lovers of that club dont like PCSL moving in and having as many match participants as USPSA.
This range is Central Arkansas Shooting Association.
I think they were pressured by USPSA BOD to hold fast with them. Also all of the clubs around me are NRA required memberships.
That’s really sad
That really sucks, I shot PCSL recently here in both 2 and 1 gun formats and I really like it compared to traditional USPSA and 3gun matches.
How big are your squads?
We run normally 10-12 ppl per squad and about 15 targets per stage. I find it goes faster resetting when like ~75% of them are helping paste but maybe I'm missing something
It actually runs into issues scoring a lot of times. Its usually easier to have a small group dedicated to running the tablet and then another for scoring/pasting that way no hits are missed and all targets are reset. It turns into a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.
My only complaint is your volume levels are always low.
I'd love to also not go to rio salado. To shoot in the desert do you just need to be far enough away from roads? Public land?
BLM land and minimum of 1/4 mile from occupied structures or roads. make sure you have a good backstop, like a mountain.
Ain’t this the truth! Some RSO’s are insecure as well. ‘Bout cussed one out the other day. If my Lion friend wasn’t a coward I would’ve had him tune him up a little.
I had to 3x my volume to get it to about the same level as your "People asking all the wrong questions" video.
Interesting. I will look into it. The audio setting on my side was identical.
@@BenStoeger187 Good decision on the new wireless mic. Levels are good on my end (iPad). I work with those mics almost every day.
In what way does rio salado rub you the wrong way? I'm half way around the world but see lots of footage from there.
I normally have to lower the volume, this time it's maxed and I'm still struggling to hear. Not the end of the world, but I just thought I'd let you know.
What device?
Ive asked before I'm pretty sure but curious if Ben or anyone else has trained at or been a part of Cowtown range ? Seems decent on paper but I havent experienced it for myself.. Rio and all these other places in Phx suck ass.. especially Ben Avery 😂
They have private bays that members can use if you don’t mind the fee, pretty sure they still charge members for the long range stuff. Have to reserve a time slot and you cannot be out there all day, iirc the timeslots are 2 hours and you get a set amount per week/month. Otherwise great facility that gives you plenty of freedom.
my last range wouldn't renew my membership i honestly think its because i came too often and it triggered the lady owner but the only reason i cant possibly even think of in the 2 years i shot there was once someguy tweaked out because i didnt immediate stop shooting my 22 rifle when he pulled up which is never the case. the range has a firing line and just because you show up doesnt mean people immediately stop shooting ive never seen that one time I was there and i explained it to the owner before this idiot could lie to her and she started yelling at me like she was my mother, and I simply just left for the day lol and wasn't going to argue with anybody. when i went to renew she wouldnt take my 300$, even though her husband wanted to but its her land not his so he sat quietly saying nothing except when my friends came he explained to them he had no issue with me LMAO. but just joined a range for 150$ a year but the other range i could do anything and everything
Banned for 30 days…. Just in time to come and pay for next months match lol
Why so quiet? Sound level really low
What kind of device are you using?
It is more quiet than normal
It's fine on my end
It’s fine on my phone and laptop I just want to replicate this issue so I can fix it.
Yeah, it way quieter than normal on my laptop. Like by a solid 15-20% lower than normal.
I had a conversation with a couple of well meaning gentleman at our club about DQ for club rules. Someone said something like if they double tap rearward falling poppers I’ll DQ them. Ummmm…nope. We can make that a rule of our range, and enforce it if we want to, but we can’t during USPSA events. We certainly can’t disqualify anyone for that. How about if we set up our steel so it’s not an issue if someone double taps the popper…
I want safety and accountability. I want happy neighbors. I don’t want to be laughed out of USPSA circles for dumb ass Fudd shit. I’ll make sure that steel is in a spot that we don’t need to worry about that particular thing which clearly ruffles some feathers…old crusty feathers 😜
I always said....PEOPLE SUCK!🤣
Control Freaks...we are there to enjoy ourselves. I'm the dude who patches all the targets while all the "pro shooters" stand around reminiscing about when men were men and sheep were nervous....
What the fudd!
Lol. It does get really irritating when people dont help tear down stages. But DQ an entire squad. Lol.
I know what you mean but everyone helped tear down, that wasn’t the issue.
Fudds gonna Fudd.
This is my range and I will say that the USPSA shooters are almost always NOT tearing down/cleaning the range properly after shooting, they usually just leave the props and brass, this has been MONTHS in the making and the USPSA shooters have been warned multiple times from the match directors down that if they don't get the stages broken down and props put away according to range rules there would be consequences. Now I don't think a full squad DQ or 30 day ban is right but like I said this is a recurring problem at the range with USPSA specifically, not just a one off, feelings got hurt kind of thing. This is partially why I stopped shooting USPSA because I would get stuck cleaning up multiple bays so the next match could begin their setup.
Hey Ben - the sound on this one is really bad ... unusual for your videos. Not complaining just informing.
FWIW: Maybe the suspensions are justified, except for the new shooter who didn't know any better. We don't know if the people on this squad have a history of doing things like this. What I've noticed over the years of USPSA is more and more people show up at these matches with a great deal of entitlement. It's certainly not the majority but it's enough of a minority for it to be noticeable. They think the match is like Burger King - you can have it your way. I think the club leadership had enough of it and decided to make an example out of a few people.
The issue is they are charging money for a match, for profit (for the club) and not giving anything worth a fuck to volunteers because bugger all people know how to manage volunteers.
Your sound keeps getting worse, not sure why, anyone else have trouble hearing?
People ask us why we built our own range. This is the reason.