Hydronic Heating For Van Life by Rixen's Enterprise
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- In episode 20 of our Van Build Series 2.0, we go over our heating system by Rixen's Enterprises. This is the Rixen's 3rd Generation Hydronic Heating System - The MCS7 that heats our air, water, and floors and leverages the van's engine's waste heat to have on-demand hot water!
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Wow! Awesome tutorial. Thank you!
I would insulate coolant hoses underneath, it’s easy and cheap. Great video as usual! We followed your previous build to get done ours. Probably time to follow again and start building something)
Great job! Definitely not to dry. You do a great job explaining. Thank you!
Appreciate that thank you Katie!
Excellent video!! Thank you!
Excellent. Looks like a nice system. Well done. You do really nice builds.
You are clutch! Planning my build now. Enjoyable channel to watch your build.
Thanks hope you build goes smooth!
Thanks for the breakdown on this. Super helpful.
Great video! Thank you!!
Nice job explaining and installing.
Thank you!
Awesome video!
THanks for a great video!
Thank you, I liked your video very much. Greetings from the Netherlands.
Thanks for watching! 😁
Can’t wait to see it in action and have your review on it 👍
Same here! Already tested the heated floors and it’s so sick! Just didn’t really flow with the style of this video to include it.
@@MathersOnTheMap what do you think about heated floors performance? Does it provide enough heat for the van?
Looks like you're doing pretty good work
Thanks Bill!
Let's see...
Heating system, circulation system and control system... GOT IT! 👨🎓
Then again, I love to design and build stuff as well...
👍on the vlog...
Thanks Lee!!!! Hope you’re doing well!
Great job!
Thanks Ryan!
@@MathersOnTheMap You're Welcome
Just what I needed, was just about to dig into figuring out where to tie into the engine heater core line. I have the same setup except with a cruise n comfort split a/c system. Nice setup, I’ll be following along as we’re pushing to be done by the beginning of August also.
Nice Eric!! Yep we tied into the driver side of the heater core where the 90 elbow was. Good luck with the build!
@@MathersOnTheMap Thanks, I took a screenshot of the location from your vid.
One last question, what size ID heater hose did you use? 3/4”?
@@ericdvorak7030 yep that’s correct 3/4 ID!
Also. I’m curious where you connected the second floor circulation pump. Did that go into the rixon’s box? I only have one point for a single pump to connect up.
You might take a tip from humble road if you havent allready. Put your exchanger by the engine so that your 2 systems stay separated so if you spring a leak on one side it doesnt affect the other engine cooling system. Bet its nice not having to work in the street, LOL! Coming along really nice!
Adding proper valve assy to engine coolant loop provides 100% isolation of the hydronic system from engine coolant system in case of failure in its side. Definitely good idea as plumbing adds 5..10 meters of coolant hoses under the vehicle with multiple clamp connections...
Humble road is great and a good idea, I think I remember seeing him mount an exchanger in a pro master I think? there was like a perfect spot for it in the engine bay.
Yea haha this definitely beats the street you got that right!! Haha
Love this idea, I’ll have to add in two valves 👌🏻👍🏻
@@MathersOnTheMap you need one 3-way ball valve from cabin heater to back to engine or to feed rear, and ball valve to rear return with T-fitting, preferably Gates fiber reinforced one.
Normally 3-way valve flows to rear and return valve is open. In case is needed isolation change both valves so return is blocked and so is feed, 3-way will short cabin heater flow back to engine
@@mhelander good call I started thinking through this and 3way makes way more sense.
Did your LCD panel come with the system? Do you have a link for that? Searched Rixen sand can’t find it
On the 7th year of Rixen system and i will never consider not using one, plus the customer service from Jim, Mike and Miguel is legit like America was once famous for👍
Great video. What would you recommend for heated floors in a 8.5 x 20ft cargo trailer?
From one teacher to another….Great job explaining 👍🙌
Thank you Elizabeth!!!
Wow you’re the best
Thanks for the video. Do you use self tapping screws to attach the insulated hose clamp to frame? Or did you use rivnuts?
First off, love your channel and family. Love the life you live. Would you be able to show more in detail where you tap into the coolant lines to heat up your hydronic system. Not sure where to cut or which line to cut. Ty
Shoot me a message on Instagram
Great video, thanks!
How hot do the outside of the heat exchangers get?
Definitely hot! I haven’t did a temp test though
Is there a reason to run the disel fuel line outside the Vehicule?
I live in canada and we have -40 winters sometimes.
It feels like if my diesel fuel line is inside my vehicule i wouldnt have the problem of it freezing?
Is there a reason to keep that fuel line outside?
Thanks
I think that they have a heat exchanger that you can put into the engine compartment. That would isolate the coolant to the back from the engine compartment/radiator coolant. That way if the hose from the front to the back is broken your engine coolant won't be lost.
So three heat exchangers in total I guess? Not a bad idea, you can still have a point of failure in the engine loop, but less of a line to worry about…I carry extra coolant in the van just to be safe
@@MathersOnTheMap you wouldn't need an additional heat exchanger, just relocate the existing one into a more protected area, so that if the coolant lines fail in the unprotected area, it's only the Rixen's system lines and not your van's.
what connection did you use to connect the pex back to the heater hose?
The vans looking great! I have the same system minus the extra heat exchanger under the van. Also are you going to have a 3rd pump to pressurize the water running through the van?
Maybe once both our vans are done we can meet up and play some pickball! Ha
Thanks! We have the seaflo water pump for our water lines (same one we had in the last van worked great!)
Haha maybe! we love pickle!
Question how would it affect the environment, if at all, when running very cold water thrrough a hydronic system?
Amazing video, thanks so much! What's the difference between the MSC7 and MSC6? I couldn't figure it out. Also, did you buy the floor heat kit from them as well? Why did you choose to/not to?
Thanks Jordyn! We got the floor kit from Just Roaming Design who partners with Rixen. Here’s the video on the floor if your interested: czcams.com/video/cK2wa6eVNXk/video.html
Late reply but looking at the two kits-- it looks like the main difference is the controller--- MSC7 has a nice touch screen interface, the MSC6 has the old style with buttons and LED digit display and back lights for heat sources-- in addition it looks like you don't have to wire anything to the control board directly on the MSC7-- it has a pin connector to the board that goes to lever wire clamps-- much easier to wire then the MSC6.... we are looking to buy the MSC7 kit---
Man, I love the video! just a question, i bought the kit bu t didnt came with the cable that conect the central electrical box on the monitor screen (AB). did yours come with that or did you need to buy it separated?
Thanks!!! the screen connects via wifi no connection needed other than a positive and negative 12v power.
I’m curious to see how well this goes in the winter. Want to get a good system for a van so we can ski here in Europe. I’ve heard people say use a false floor to protect the lines from freezing up but I see yours are under the van. Do u think any hoses/lines have the potential to freeze up being exposed under the van even if well insulated? Also, is there an option in the settings of the touch screen to change to Celsius rather than Fahrenheit?
Yes they can definitely freeze, most just empty drains directly onto the ground during the winter and use natural organic products so it doesn’t impact the environment. Yes you can change the temperature type
Nice job. What do you have going through the floors to actually heat them, is it a heating element, hoses, what?
Pex with glycol (anti freeze) running through
its the best system for van life :) !
Agreed!
Hi Kevin. Chapeau for a great job in explaining your design. Would you mind supplying a link to which “kit” you purchased from Rixen. I am planning the same on a 144” 4x4 sprinter and would really appreciate a source to purchase the above unit. Does Esperbacher build the diesel engine and Rixen put the kit together. I’m in Nova Scotia. Feel free to driveway surf if you get nearby.
Regards
Jan
Hey! Hope you’re safe and the fires didn’t affect you in NS. We’re hoping to head that way sometime in August!
The link is in the description to MCS7 system, let me know if it doesn’t work.
That’s correct, Rixen uses the esperbacher hydronic furnace with its own proprietary software to program everything together, along with the pumps and the comfort hot coolant reservoir.
Hi Kevin
Thanks for asking. The fire is nearby and safely contained due to a recent deluge. Thank you for your prompt reply. Wondering which additional kits you purchased and is one blower enough? Feel free to drop in when in the area. You can even enjoy a long shower with an endless water supply and I’ll make a few suggestions on things you might want to explore in Nova Scotia.
That is one bad ass van!!! Do these vans come loaded up? Huge price difference?
Thanks John! Yea you can find them through outfitted companies and they’re going to be expensive, the storyteller van we had the chance to use in Oregon was 188k!
Our van is going to be expensive don’t get me wrong, luckily many companies are working with us throughout the build.
Why wouldn't you just add an Isotemp (glycol heated water tank) and add an Espar heater. Aside from not having the heated floor element wouldn't it give you the same thing you're getting with the Rixon for a fraction of the price? Does anyone have any insight on this? Am I missing something?
Curious about your engine coolant system connection. I don't think I saw a fluid pump added into that long loop of coolant hoses; is this meant simply to heat the coolant in the house system from the engine side of things as you drive? Or to heat the engine coolant while parked up to make getting the van started in cold conditions easier?
As someone else said in the comments, you might consider adding another heat exchanger, one up much much closer to the engine; if one of those long hoses catches a rock and leaks out coolant, that's your engine coolant and you could get stuck, or worse, damage the engine. Another heat exchanger would segregate the engine side.
Also, I see your furnace exhaust pipe snaking between those two long coolant hoses - are those touching at all? Any issues with the furnace exhaust pipe getting hot enough to damage the coolant hose(s)?
I've built my hydronic heating system so that there is Autoterm 5kW diesel furnace, installed just front of driver's side rear wheel. Hot water goes through floor to 15 liter hot water tank coil, then to other side to kitchen where is manifold for floor heating system and air coil with fans, both have separate thermostat.
Return goes through floor to engine bay where is three valve manifold connecting to post cabin heater pre engine & coolant expansion tank, then to furnace pump.
So my system uses solely engine coolant circuit and its expansion tank. There is high flow circulation pump in front of furnace and second for floor circulation which has also hydronic down mixing 3-way valve.
For hot tap water, there is 3-way valve in front of its circulation pump, valve controls circulation through either kitchen tap re-circulation loop for rapid hot water to conserve water consumption, or to circulate through plate heat exchanger to post heating recirculating shower flow (which is 100% separate from fresh water system).
It took only two arctic winters to dial everything right, now it works like a charm!
And my system can source heat from furnace to living quarters, then prior to start driving adjusting engine compartment valves to pre-heat engine. Then while driving engine heats everything until it's colder than -25°C when cabin heater cools flow too much and need to separate engine from circulation.
Hot water tank has also 1kW resistive element which is available for summer time to get hot water when batteries are nearly fully charged.
@@mhelander This sounds like a beast of a setup!!! I’m assuming it’s all custom/DIY? Do you have any concerns of water freezing for the water line going through the floor? I’m guessing you insulated the hell out of it. Thanks again for the valve tip!!!!
@@MathersOnTheMap Yes, insulated bulkhead 50+ mm XPS, walls & ceiling 50mm XPS, floor 70mm PU with hydronic tubing on heat spreader. Doors and part of passenger side still to get properly insulated.
Only window is in side door, double glazed, and no holes or hatches on roof because it's completely used for 900Wp solar.
This was just very comfortable last winter, coldest -28.7°C...
@@MathersOnTheMap Ah what comes to water pipes, fresh water tank 70 liters is internal, of course. All water lines are inside and made sure while constructing cabinets and all that there is enough air circulation to keep even corners warm.
And there is hydronic line near plumbings and it also goes under the LFP battery setup.
Garage is under bed, fully insulated from living quarters, and only heated from floor. Coldest garage floor spot has been above +4°C without additional air circulation from living quarters where when colder fan coil thermostat keeps temps comfortable.
Could you do an update on this as far as how efficient showering is with just a heat exchanger to heat the water?
It works really well and the water is HOT! Maybe I’ll put something together, no guarantees though since I’m more focused on travel content these days
Nice explanation. How do you like the system? Is the heated floors an incredible upgrade from just an air furnace? Or is it more of a luxury item that gives warm toes but still need the furnace blowing? Basically how would you evaluate the choice of having heated floors or not?
I’ll tell ya once we hit the road 😅 still building!
@@MathersOnTheMap Sounds good. I'm just starting my build and this floor decision is holding me up!
@@omjaye I spoke a lot with the guys over at Rixen’s and I believe the floor is a pretty power heating element and the combination with the blower is really good. The furnace that heats the coolant is running whether or not the air blower is on to heat the water and floors. Does that make sense?
Hello nice video! I am thinking of getting the same system. How do you like it after using it?
We like it a lot! We haven't been in really really cold winter climates with the van yet, but so far so good. If you're not going to be in really cold climates then the heated floors is more of a nice to have and i'd probably save the money. But if you will be in cold climates the heated floors are so nice!!! Our old van's floor used to be FREEEEZING, not in this van. Rixen's is an amazing company with the best customer service.
@@MathersOnTheMap Thanks for the reply! I have talked to Rixen a few times, they are wonderful! I have read other pros for a heated floor include dust doesn't get blown about, and that when you open the van door all the heat doesnt just go out. It takes longer to warm up but then longer to cool down. The cabinets stay warmer, etc. So I think there may be more benefits other than just freezing cold. At least I am trying to justify spending 10K as I do not plan to be in freezing cold.
While the heated floor takes its time to warm up, you can always turn on the blower right? ;-)
BTW you are a handsome man, and congratulations on your new baby!
My builder installed the Rixen Sys. in my 2019 3500xd. The controls are rather crude. There is a Espar control, which does nothing, maybe sets the max run time. the Rixen thermostat controller does seem to piggy-back off of it though as they are wired together - don't know why. In addition to those control elements, there is a 3rd panel with rocker switches for system on/off, furnace on/off, water on/off, and a 2 speed fan rocker. I do not have radiant floor heating.
I like the touch screen you have. Will it work on my 2019 system?
It should you can contact Rixen's to upgrade but it will definitely come at a price. I think they have a few videos discussing the upgrade
How much more coolant do you need to put into the radiator for that long loop?
About a gallon, however a little spilled out when I cut the hoses
I noticed you run your system from the furnace to the expansion tank but all other videos I see run from furnace to heat exchangers with the expansion tank coming last. Is there a reason you chose to do yours that way? Does going to the expansion tank first cause an extra loss of heat?
I just followed Rixen’s diagrams and instructions, check out their learning center on their website for their diagrams, super helpful!!
I have the Espar D5E and i’m confused because I have seen it installed so many different ways i’m not sure which is correct anymore. Ideally, I’ll have the options of hot water, air and floor heating. I’ve got the pex lines installed in the floor, the air blower and am going to hold off on the hot water for the moment because it’s winter and I need warm air. I’ve got the coolant reservoir installed to the pump, the heater is installed outside of the van. In some videos I’m seeing the pump directly to the heater and the heater to the heat exchanger but your setup has the coolant going to the heat exchanger then to the heater… does it make a difference which one i go to first?
Since they did not respond, I'll give it a shot-- IMO putting the "water heater" before the air heater would give you more consistent hot water temp-- with the air heater first, if say while using the water heater and the "air heater" fan kicks on, that would cool the coolant going to the water heater a bit and make the temp drop some-- if you put the water heater first, then if the air heater fan kicks on it would not affect the water temp since it is after the water heater... now thermodynamically, that is what would occur-- but not knowing how much of a temperature drop you get across the air heater, not sure how "much" it would be affected by this-- it could be negligible... if say the coolant only dropped a few degrees---- if it drops alot, then it could affect the water temp by alot also.... that's my take anyway.... HTH
How much more coolant (antifreeze fluid) did you use?
About another container
Can you utilize an independent source of glycol instead of tapping into the van's?
We utilize an independent source in the comfort hot reservoir, it’s completed isolated
You might want to plumb in some valves so that you can bypass the engine coolant system when you're parked. It seems like your engine cooling system (ie, that giant radiator on the front of the vehicle) is just going to be dumping valuable heat energy right outside, 'heating the great outdoors'.
I would want a way to isolate the two systems for when you're parked and just running your heat and water directly off the diesel heater.
Every engine has a thermostat which blocks off the radiator so it's already built in.
@@johnleaste828
That's not actually how thermostats work, but nice effort. 👍
That's not an issue at all with his setup. Note the heat exchanger at the rear of the van, right next to the furnace; the house system is isolated from the engine system via that heat exchanger. Yes, some heat from the house system will be lost to the engine system when parked, but the coolant on the engine side isn't flowing so there won't be much heat loss.
@@wanderingzythophile9083
The water in the van's coolant system WILL circulate, as the hydronic system heats the coolant in the heat exchanger.
"Some people think that thermodynamics don't be like that, but it do."
-Neil Degrasse Tyson, Probably.
Does the touchscreen unit just connect wirelessly to the control unit? looks like only power gets fed into it?
Yes it does my bad I should have showed that!
@@MathersOnTheMap So can you access it from another app or tablet? or strictly via their wall mount? Wifi or bluetooth?
You have to put anti-gel in your fuel tank if you are gonna be in cold temps or that fuel will gel up on you.
That happened to us in Vermont in our old van!
Hey Kevin,
Im installing my system now and noticed you also used white pex. I have been reading that hydronic should actually use the orange pex that has an oxygen blocking layer. Have you seen any issues with rust? Apparently that is what the orange prevents.
Thanks, Tim
Hey Tim, I read that too when I was looking into it. However this came directly from just roaming design. I haven’t seen any issues with rust and feel confident in the pex we have, however I’m sure orange is probably best
Thanks for the reply.
Hi does it have to use deisel fuel, what if my van just uses gas?
And because of this system can i put my water tank now under the van
@@sunnywilds3760 yes there’s a gas version check it out at rixens website! I think you could put your tank wherever you want without worry about what system ya go with
Nice job. My only difference of opinion is it wouldn’t matter if you had a 10 gallon water heater it doesn’t add another ounce to your carrying capacity. Think about it and you’ll see why.
Thanks Michael!!! You don’t think so? I mean ya got to pressurize the system first but once you do doesn’t the tank hold 2.5 gallons ready to heat up. So then if you refill your water tank it would be the tank + the hot water heater capacity right?
@@MathersOnTheMap when your big tank is empty you know longer have any water to push the water out of the water heater so it will just sit there full. You will still have it on board but you can’t use it.
Ahhhhh!!! The light bulb finally turned on, thanks for the tip
Where is Glen?
We miss Glenn!
Great video! Question, does the engine loop always circulate when the engine is running? Or is there a separate pump for circulating that?
Engine loop always circulate from the engines water pump. If you had the preheat option you would have to add an additional pump in the loop and then use the eberpacher furnance to preheat the engine
I have the Rixen system also, but I am not hooked up to engine heat and don’t have floor heating. Are you using the engine water pump to push that engine hydronic fluid aft and then forward again? Any concerns about your engine coolant exposed the length of your van 2X? Agreed Rixen support is second to none!
Hey Jeff, I had the same questions that I asked them myself. They confirmed the engine's water pump is more than strong enough to move the coolant back and forth, even where I chose to put my heat exchanger, all the way in the back!
Hi Jeff, I have a d5 heater and would like to install the basic hydronic system like you in my sprinter. Can you tell me which kit I would need to purchase for this particular install, thanks.
Nice system, but its the same price of the whole rv that I'm buying.
Seems like a LOT of $$$$
For $6,000 plus installation there are much better and less expensive heating options for RV's, vans, overlanders, or expedition vehicles. I agree that having a loop to use engine coolant and a plate heat exchanger with radiant in-floor heating is part of the solution to keep the living area in a van warm while driving and engine heat is free. In the same coolant loop as the radiant floor heating you install a small radiator(about the size of a transmission oil cooler) with a 12v slow turning, quiet, but high volume fan that will also help heat the air again using engine heat/electricity. The third heat source is a point of use electric tankless water heater made in Germany by Stiebel Eltron and a small 2-6 gallon/min circulator pump. The circulator pump is what triggers the the tankless water heater to turn on and the only other items you need is a digital thermostat and relay for the circulator pump. Every 100 ft of 1/2" PEX tubing holds aprox 1.3 gallons of coolant and a van would use under 200 ft, meaning the entire heating system uses less than 3 gallons of Propylene Glycol and water mix so the circulator pump only needs to have a small volume of gal/min to circulate the entire volume of the system twice per minute. Typically there is only a 20F degree drop in a loop of radiant floor so it does not take much electricity to raise the temp of the coolant back up 20F degrees to the set temp of 105-110F. One mistake vanlifers make is only running PEX radiant heating tubes in the walking areas of a van, you must remember everything in the van must be heated up to be comfortable and warm the space. By putting loops of PEX under the bed area, under cabinets, under the entire living area it helps to warm everything in the van making heating more effective and maintaining a comfortable living area. I figure you could install the heating system I suggested for less than half of a Rixen system.
Makes sense if ...."20F degree drop in a loop of radiant floor so it does not take much electricity" were true. ( actually a lot lower Temp drop but doesn't matter)
The amount of energy required to raise the temperature of the coolant is related to the temperature rise and the Volume. 1 BTU is 1 lb of water 1 degree F. But you need to addc " time" to the equation. 1500 watts is 5118 BTU's per hour. ( about what the diesel heater puts out ) . That is 125 Amps at 12 volts. You need really big battery to sustain that current , and a Generator to charge it. ( the Van alternator is not nearly enough)