Hi-Fi equalizer is the DEVIL? Schiit Loki review
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- čas přidán 17. 01. 2020
- #Audiophile #hifi #Equalizer #Stereo Review
My take on why it is ok to have a HI-FI Equalizer in our stereo system.
I know people say tone control is the devil in high-end audio systems but I disagree. Our goal is to enjoy listening to our system, not suffer thru it on certain tracks.
Schiit Loki is quite transparent and I think for those of you who wished you can make some minor adjustments, this is a good tool to have.
They do have an in home trial period but might charge for return.
I bought the Loki and was not sent to me by Schiit.
I bought this unit and it was not sent to me by Schiit. If you are in Canada, with the conversion and customs, it is over $200 cdn so keep that in mind.
I brought the Loki before, one thing I notice is if you put its treble too high, you start hearing noise floor. :D And I think pushing my speakers higher or lower than they normally do is "unhealthy" or "unnatural" to them. I would prefer to acquire speakers that meets the range that I want naturally. Therefore I returned it. Also it adds up to additional chain in the system...
Interesting company. I have their magni lll h/a. Runs by a wallwort. It. Sounds okay,sort of like a diet version of the Creek obh 11. When run through my Hafler 75 h/a out, the little magni becomes a beast. If any headphone people out there,here is a little review.www.whathifi.com/us/schiit-audio/magni-3/review
Please check your spam folder left you link
"Cables" is the subject that, more than anything in this arena, shows us the limitations of our scientific model, certainly our engineering model, for why stuff behaves as it does, why we experience things as we do. I think it is a humbling prospect for engineers and others who hold tight to the standard model of science to accept cables matter and that's why it is so controversial. What many people hear just doesn't obey the standard scientific model.....
@@mfr58 Then how are cables designed, if not through science and engineering? Wild guessing and/or trial and error?
If you listen to anything other than pristine recordings, tone controls are a great thing to have. I used to work as an audio engineer and one of the audio engineers who trained me used to always stress cutting first. Cutting of frequencies sounds more natural to our ears than boosting. If you have a recording that annoys you (usually something in the mid band), try cutting those frequencies. Sometimes you don't need more bass or treble you actually need less mid.
Audiophiles “rediscovering” EQ is sort of funny. Most high-end systems can benefit from some level of careful EQ.
Also a lot of poorly engineered recordings can benefit from an eq tweak.
"i believe in...making me feel good when i listen to my system". word. totally agree. sometimes audiophiles miss the whole point of music...to feel it. when folks get so technically minded, they miss the point of why most musicians make music...to make others FEEL something. there is more to be said to audio reproduction than just staying true to the source. you should get a smile on your face when you listen. you should feel the music. feel the lyrics. feel the song. that is all that matters.
100%. One of my favorite album is Chic - C'est Chic. Every track is amazing and funky as hell. But the recording is terrible. Even the original LP release, the highs are barely there. The Schiit Loki will bring magic to my turntable next time I play this record.
I bought one last year to experiment on a secondary system, it certainly allows for tuning to you ears preferences.. It's a very convenient and inexpensive way to tune your sound.
Brilliant commentary. You are exactly right in your approach, Thomas. You should build a system to suit your tastes and if you use an equalizer or a microwave (love that line) to get that sound then so be it. You and Steve Guttenberg are really the only two doing audio reviews who seem to understand that this hobby is about engaging with the music in a way that moves you, draws you in and pleases you. The idea that one can build a system to present music the way the artist intended is a fools errand. First of all, the artist intended their music to inspire and entertain. Or, perhaps they intended their music to make you think, or feel or hope. But there is zero chance that any artist worries about anyone listening to their music with a bit of midbass boost. The artists intend for their audience to be moved by their music in much the same way a painting might speak to an art aficionado. If one becomes so preoccupied with the esoteric minutia of audiophilia that they are no longer able to engage with the music itself, then no matter how close to the original sound their system gets, they are not experiencing the music as the artist intended.
Also, you raise a very good point and one that not many are willing to admit. So few people have any real world point of reference for how things actually sound. I know more than a few people who have never seen any of their favorite artists live but they think they know how these artists sound. Some think their systems rival a live symphony yet they've never set foot in a symphony hall. In every case these people are simply making up their version of what things should sound like and creating a system that suits their tastes. Which is just as correct as any other way to do it because it makes them want to listen to music and that's the whole point. Where things go awry is when someone decides that their opinion of how something should sound, whether they've heard the thing or not, is the only way it should be enjoyed. Unfortunately, even very experienced reviewers fall into the my way or the highway trap. They feign a lack of bias but if you read or watch enough of their reviews then their preferences become evident and they judge gear against these preferences. Heck, we all do. Unlike yourself, however, they don't admit this. They pretend they are judging products against an accurate sonic reference point when in reality they are simply comparing them to their favorite style of coloration. I used to worry about what these guys thought. But now I have the experience and confidence to filter the valuable information from the biased and often self important garbage. These days, like yourself, I, too will add salt if I feel like it!
Glad to see you review this as I was just looking at it today. Cool that you cover a wide range of gear, from super high-end to something as inexpensive as the Loki. I shared your channel with a friend today. Thanks
Thanks, Thomas or another great review. I couldn't agree with you more. I added the Schiit Loki into my headphone setup about a year ago. The Loki has been a great help to me, I have a bit of tinnitus so when listening to for example Dave Matthews Band some of the recordings are bit harsh for my poor sensitive ears. I can dial the highs back a bit. It works so well for me I added another Loki into my main listening system. You're also correct in that the Loki stays in bypass most of the time only use it about 5%. but it's there when I need it.
Audiophiles drive me nuts with this crap. Units, amps, pre amps, DATs, speaker wires, crossovers wired to speakers …. BUT a simple tone control knob is in the pathway of the music ruins it? WTF is wrong with you people? First, if you listen to anything that is not recorded 100% acoustical tone controls were used from the first string or drum struck.
Thanks, Thomas! One of the reasons I like your channel is your lack of pretentiousness, and this is a perfect example. I have the Loki in my 10 year old son’s Magni/Modi stack for him to learn about/play with EQ. He loves it!
Thanks, I am pretty down to earth in real life.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas, they call that 'Being Practical".. LOL That's why we love you Thomas!!!
Damn... lucky son you have I'd say!
What a great overview man. Loved the explanation at the end of the video. Recording has to do a lot with it and I have noticed I enjoy some songs more than others.
Amazing times.. I was going buy the Loki, and other Schiit components, and, watching the Schiit Audio reviews..
I really wanted to hear your opinion and insights Thomas.
Good ol' Thomas comes thru, and posted. Unreal yea... Thanks Thomas!!!
Hope it helps.
Dear Thomas, Gus from Boston here. I've just purchased the Loki! Thank you for the review. I've realized that streaming through Audirvana was a much better experience using an eq to tame some of the treble of my Focals 716. And since my vinyl collection comprises solely of albums from 50s, 60s and 70s , I'm excited to do the same with my analog listening. Interesting thing about the Focals is that even if you bring some of the higher frequencies down a bit, my ears don't feel any loss of the spark, yet, adding an extra layer of "smoothness" to the sound! Funny how such a simple measure can make you speaker sound a "step up", isn't it?
Nice, glad a simple tweak can make a signficant difference.
subscribed! - great video.....besides everything that you mentioned isn't it true that the volume of the audio playback affects way frequencies are perceived? I will often set an eq differently for the same recording depending on how loud or soft I am listening to the recording.
My Cambridge integrated has tone controls with the ability to bypass. My 1976 Technics receiver also has tone controls. With the Cambridge I have floor standing totems and from time to time I need to decrease the bass. With the Technics I have small
ADS speakers and I increase the bass a touch. Tone controls come in handy.
My current Yamaha A-S2100 has bypass-able tone controls, my DAC has tone controls and 5 band eq and loudness. Be prepared.
You have SAID IT so well about adding some soul to your listening sense. VERY sensible logic. Victor
Who knows what the artist intended! I love my Loki ❤️ My only complaint, I just wish Jason and Mike would make a balanced version. I have found the best place for the Loki is between the preamp and amp and I like to keep that balanced.
They do, maybe it wasn't available a year ago when you posted this though? Its called the Lokius and its twice as much money but it has 6 bands instead of 4 and has balanced or single ended inputs and outputs. Its designed to go with modius and magnius stack of products. The loki was designed to go with the modi and magni products. The lokius will work with any of the products though regardless of if they are balanced or not. Technically the best place to put it I think would be between the dac or switcher and the pre amp. That way the gain running into it is constant and not changing. Or with some sort of tape loop if its available like we used to have. Not sure if that is the thing anymore though. However if that isn't possible putting it between the pre amp and amp really shouldn't cause any issues. I kind of wish it had a gain control so you could correct the gain after adjustments but that seems like a bit much to ask at this price point and size. And from what I understand the adjustments on this are not huge anyway so it might not matter much.
I bought one of these recently and found it to be pretty good and like you use it around 5% of the time, usually to tame bright digital recordings or fatten up bass light vinyl. Fortunately my pre-amp has a spare tape loop so I can have it completely switched out of my system when not needed. I think the unit itself is pretty transparent - I suspect the extra RCA cables I have going to and from the unit are having a bigger impact than the unit itself as I can tell the difference when I have the Loki tape loop selected even when it is in bypass mode, but it is then in series with an extra 2.4m of cable!
Yup, good point about the cable,
There are several reasons to choose an equalizer for your system. Correction of frequency response may be desired to correct for room issues, issues with your stereo sound, adjusting for personal taste, or to correct for poor recordings. I suspect the Loki is most suitable for the last 2 reasons. My experience owning a 1/3 octave eq and a 5 band parametric eq and a spectrum analyzer has been that the bandwidth of correction required for room issues or stereo system correction is not possible with such wide fixed bandwidths. It would be like a surgeon using a sword and would cut more than needed. I prefer to have my eq's on my preamp tape monitor circuit so that it is only in the signal path when desired. I only use it for poor or objectionable recordings. I have found even really good eq's will add a veil to the sound of good recordings and obscure fine detail. Thanks for the review Thomas. I think quality cables (purity of signal) and eq's (tonal adjustment) are best viewed as a way to improve the sound but in very different ways, like apples and oranges not really comparable.
You finally took the plunge with the Loki. It is a nice little piece of kit.
I had it for over 6 months but to be honest, I have so many gears that I can mix and match that I don't really need to use it. I use it for the worst case scenario where usually I really need that bass boost. For example, the speaker could be too flat sounding.
Dear Thomas,
Great review. Question on cables: Do you think the length of an RCA cable between a phono preamp and the amp will have an impact on sound? (I.e. the longer the cable the more exposed to unwanted results?). Thanks!
From what I read yes but I never put it to the test. Meaning taking different lengths of the same brand of cables and doing an ab test
Hi Thomas,
Do you know if changing the power supply to a LPS or a very good SMPS the Loki improves?
Great videos :-D
Filipe
I don't know, sorry.
Thomas, I know this is an old video, but have you compared the Loki (or Loki Mini+) to the Lokius? I need some "Umph" added to my turntable's output (going into Zu Omen Mk2s w/entry-level sub) and was considering one of these devices to help lift up the low end to see if that can improve my system. Any thoughts? Is one worth double the price of the other?
(Comments from "actual" experience from others is welcome) 👽✌️
Thanks Thomas, agree with you completely. Also good analogies with the salt and cable reference.
In my case, having 2 subwoofers in my system and adjusting the volumes on the subs so they are balanced with the loud speakers is also a type of tone control.
Looking forward to what you are going to say about the Ares ii.
Thanks. Yeah the ARES II is interesting...
I have never understood audiophile aversion to mild use of EQ. Some can spend weeks or even months tube rolling to change sound. This kind of device, when well designed and not overused, is just a more convenient way of similar tube changes. Adding flavor. Helping redefine weaknesses in recording quality and systems. And until all music is recorded perfectly and every system reproduces perfectly, I'll enhance with eq to make a better connection to the music.
They'd rather spend thousands on cables to accomplish the same thing.
But if you use a device like this then your system won't pass the "purity test" and it will "defial the true integrity" of the artist's work.
("Are your eyes rolling yet? Mine are") 🙄
👽🖖"Na-nu"
I am patiently waiting your Ares2 review , haha. I do have the Loki too . I will also add that even before you play around with the frequencies, turning on the Loki alone adds some sauce already as it adds a few dbs already. Too much Schiit on my system 😉 : Aegir and Vidar (horizontal biamp) , Schiit Freya + and of course the Loki .
I'm expecting too 😁
I bought a Loki a year ago. I also use it exactly like you described in the video, only once in a while. But when I do I’m very happy to have it with my PS Stellar Stack and Tektons.
Congrats!
Can't wait to order one of these. I have Klipsch RF5 which are amazing but certainly bright and I am using the EQ on my amp all the time which works ok but this seems like it has all the answers.
EQ with xlr connectivity is standard on the pro side. Like consumer aka home audio side variety of quality and functionality levels. Good enough to be in recording, mix and mastering, then good enough for playback signal path. ;)
A common assumption, but its not true. The job of a playback system is different than what's used in a recording studio. Everything used in the recording process is part of the recording itself. Its not altering the recording, it is the recording. The job of the playback system is to reproduce the recording with as much transparency as possible. A good example is cables. People always say, why buy high end cables when they used cheap ones in the studio? The answer is simple. You're trying to reproduce the recording as transparent as possible. That includes the sound of whatever cables were used in the studio. It would be like making a tweeter out of brass because cymbals are made out of brass. You need to produce a tweeter that is transparent in such a way that lets you hear the natural timbre of a cymbal, or some other instrument.
Which shipping method did you choose to ship to Canada? Also, how is the unit holding up so far? Any scratchy sounding knobs when turning them?
Great review, was thinking about buying a Loki , love tone controls too.😄 we are the new hifi era 😘
Yes, great thing it is transparent enough and that was important to me.
Thomas great job here, there is nothing that you said that I don’t agree with, excellent job and keep up the great work educating people one step at a time, one system at a time.
Thomas, I can't preach this enough. When using any eq on any stereo, we automatically increase frequencies we want more of that the speaker is lacking. When doing this, you are going above reference level and therefore increasing distortion. What we should be doing is decreasing the frequencies we don't like, keeping the distortion low. The eq graph will look the same in the end, but it will be below reference level. This way you can listen to your speakers at loud volumes without the added distortion. Distortion is your worst enemy, it damages your ears and even worse it cooks voice coils.
Oh nice, Never thought about using it this way. I think partially because I play with gear that has a lot of headroom but what you say makes sense.
Incremental increases should not pose a problem. Tone controls allow you to shape the sound to your personal taste - sure beats having to suffer through schiity recordings.
Richard McCoy, please science me how distortion “damages your ears”. Please show your work.
I absolutely agree.
In my tube preamp there are three bypassable tone controls. Every time I decide to use them (mainly because poor original recordings, as you say), I prefer to do it in substracting way. So; if I find, for example, the bass is lacking, I turn down the mid and treble knobs. If the sound is too muffled, I turn down the other two knobs until I find a properly balanced response.
Nice remark.
In practicality, it doesn't really make a difference. If you lower all the bandwidths you perceive as neutral in order to boost the lacking frequency range, you're very likely to increase the overall volume to get the dynamics and loudness level that sounds best for a given song. If the system amplification has even decent headroom, the distortion level is simply a function of driver stresses (excursion and heat). Once you turn up the volume to where you started, driver stress will be the same as had you just boosted a single frequency range.
I'm definitely getting one my music my way🎼🎙👌
If you want to use an EQ and don't want to run the signal through an analog EQ, you can get a digital EQ. If you have separate components, you can put a digital EQ in between a transport (CD transport, streamer, computer, etc..), and your DAC. If the signal is already digital, EQing in digital does a lot less harm to the signal, then an analog EQ. Having it before the DAC is much less intrusive.
the loki is a must have for headphone enthusiasts
I have two Lokis, one in my turntable path and one in my digital path. Love!
I have one Loki for the digital path and the turntable too. Thanks to y-cable.
I am buying this based on your review. Is it possible to have this unit 12 feet away from the AVR it will
be connected to with long RCA cables to control tone from my listening position? Thanks for this video
Im definitely getting it. Cause as much as audiophiles hate tone controls me being a musician I do like it just for those really bad recordings. 👌
Still have and use my 80s 10 band eq. Love it. The only way to know what the artist intended is to ask them and while asking also ask on exactly what system to listen to it on etc. Pretty sure that in most cases the artist just wants people to hear their work no matter how they do it.
Thomas , I'm going a bit off topic here , but if you get the chance to listen to the recently released Rotel Michi amps and preamp , could you let us know what you think. They are high-end components (not cheap , but not overly expensive either).
I remember hearing them at the Toronto audio show and it was really good.
I just bought the Loki I wanted more bass for my HD599 headphones works really nice !😏👍
Thomas, your salt analogy with the master chef's spaghetti......excellent !
Yes tonight I wished I had more highs so good to remind me about the Loki it's amazing
Time to buy a loki....
its a great eq just got one a week ago I also have the Schiit magni and modi I recommend this eq.
When you change cables do you change them throughout the entire signal path (i.e. DAC -> Pre-> Loki -> Amp) or just one section (Pre -> Amp)?
Depends on the system. Some will just need a single cable swap while others I need to do the whole thing. Cables are like spices, it is the right amount that is the key.
An inexpensive addition. Willsenton R8 supply a pair of Klipsch Belles. The bass has been weak. The Loki allows me to adjust without the aid of a sub. It's a useful tool when audio isn't coming through as clear. Received two weeks ago so still learning, but by tweaking the knobs I can find the sweet spot in everything from music to CZcams reviews. Thanks for the review.
Hi,
Tell us a little about the EQ. What are the center frequencies for the two middle bands? Obviously the middle controls are peak/dip filters, probably with a very wide bandwidth (i.e., low "Q"), but am I right in assuming the highest and lowest bands are shelving filters? If so, what frequency is the "knee" of the shelf? Or, if the HF and LF filters are actually peak/dip, what are the center frequencies?
I would not be able to speak with authority as I don't really spend time looking for technical information anymore.
I'm curious Thomas, on the earlier part of your audio journey you had stated you didn't hear much difference in various cabling and resisted speaking about them too much. I realize its a contentious subject, but do you pay any attention to cabling in your system or do you just use some decent inexpensive cabling and not worry about it?
I don't hear a lot of difference with power cable but I do with interconnects and speaker cables. I have many cables as I use it to fine tune my system. Currently, I am using DIY speaker cables.
Cable is so sensitive to some people here it will trigger their nerves to fight to attack........ I can see this is also happens in most of the audiophile forums. Too sad : (
@@mphkltd Yeah, I know that it's probably a good idea for Thomas to avoid the topic but I was just curious if he was experimenting and where he stood these days.
Bravo, as a chef your salt reference convinced me to buy the Lokius
I use my eq in Audirvana 100 % of the time. And expect to use the Loki for my analog listening quite a lot. Mostly the upper frequencies which bother me with just any speaker. No shame in saying that...😊
I can connect to the salt reference in the review :) nice review !
There is now a 6 band version of this with balanced inputs. Maybe you could review this.
The difference between those two cables you mention: were they silver vs copper, or both copper? Because I've hear difference in my silvered copper and copper wires, but have a hard time imagining copper sounding different.
Yup.
YUP, on my next purchase list. Thank you.
did you compare with pre dac FIR minidsp instead? I think it's better value!
Hi Thomas!
I don't know how I missed this video. I have earlier seen Steve Guttenberg's video about it and found it very interesting.
I am surprised Fredric perceives KEF R700 as dark speaker. My experience of KEF so far(first Q350 and now R500) is that KEF has a pretty bright character. Often I would like to decrease the treble a bit and also increase the bass because many(I think the majority of) recordings are too bright with weak base. The opposite is rare in my opinion. Therefore Schiit Loki is a very interesting device. I just have a question: is it possible to use with Rega Brio amplifier? I have not yet got a clear answer from other sources so I wonder if you know or if you know someone who could tell.
Best regards, Patric
Thanks, you would put it in between your source (DAC) and the Brio. It will work.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks, but sorry for my ignorance in this case: my equipment contains of an amplifier, CD-player, and tuner.
Isn't it necessary to connect the equalizer in and out of the amplifier?
@@patricj951 No, you can connect your cdplayer to the Loki, Loki to your amp. It is like having an equalizer built into your cdplayer if you connect it that way.
@@ThomasAndStereo Ok, I get it! But then the EQ will only work with the CD-player and not tuner or when I listen to youtube through my TV, right? But with a DAC I can use the EQ with all sources?
@@patricj951 Yes in this case, it will only work with the cdplayer. If you use a DAC and everything you have is plug to the DAC before going into the Loki then to the Rega, then the Loki will affect everything that is plug into that DAC.
Thanks for the review, one thing I'll mention is that I find all of your videos so quiet, any chance you can bump the volume going forward.
Might need to buy a better mic. I am using my cell phone and a lapel mic.
Thomas please review the Legacy Audio Wavelet. There are very few reviews on this piece of equipment and I believe it could be a fantastic alternative to room treatments and correcting imbalances in a system. S'il vous plait.
If they reach out to me, sure.
I don’t know if I’d be able to justify getting this, since it costs more than my speakers and turntable combined.
tell your friend with the pricey system to try the ifi dc purifier or a better power supply with the loki i think that's the problem
Loki works I have one. Yes it has its limitations but is like the salt analogy Thomas used.
Still, going to a couple of acoustic live music events a year (the less amplification, the better) makes you enjoy the truly high level of reproduction you can reach at home even more. That piano can sound somewhat muffled and non-linear in a full concert hall. At home, It can sound glorious. And you can't bring eq into the concert hall😁
Hi Thomas. Thanks for this review. I love that you and Steve G talk about gear in language that makes sense to me - the love of music and the excitement of the listening experince. The thing I find interesting about the “eq” issue that I don’t hear being discussed is that we are making eq choices with every piece of gear we buy. KT88 tubes vs EL84? Big difference. Acoustic Suspension vs ported? Big difference. Ortofon Blue vs Goldring 1042? Big difference. British pressing vs Japanese vs German vs US? BIG differences. There is no absolute “purity” IMHO because every system, source and every room is different. And I’m sorry, unless you were in the room with Lindsay Buckingham when they mixed Rumours, you don’t know the intent - hmmm am I hearing John McVie’s bass cabinet the way he intended? haha. Also, I’d throw in that speakers at different life stages sometimes need a little help. I just picked up a set of KLH Model 5s and they are incredible BUT in my room, with the rest of my gear, the upper mids are too forward and when listening at lower volumes, the bass response can be shy. Do I buy a new amp? No! Adjust the eq a tad and dial these amazing speakers in for my ear and my room. Just bought a Loki + thanks to you and Steve.
Thomas, just watched your review on the model 5s and you mentioned that you liked them better when you switched the Cayin output from 8 to 4 ohm. I have a Muzishare x7 with KT88s, currently running the 8 ohm outputs to the model 5s. Did you feel the 4 ohm smoothed out the upper mids and made them less shout-y to use your word? Appreciate your advice!
There making eq choices at each link in our system, different mastering of a recording, amps, speaker tonality, etc, etc. Schiit Loki solved it for me. Just runs a little too warm for my taste.
I tried Salt & Pepper too but found with the tubed Yaqin mc-13s by adding Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Thyme to my music mix thru the Chord Mojo USB’ed from my Puter, it sounds much better by 22%😂 And if I shut off the music there’s no difference if the Mojo stays in line or not... Enjoy the Music❤️
I only wish that you had spoken more about the frequency ranges of the Loki's controls and how they each affect the music. Are there other equalizers that might do a better job? All that I know after 12+ minutes is that it is supposedly a good equalizer that does not adversely affect the spatial aspects of the sound.
Keep plugging away at it, Thomas (despite my comment, I do enjoy your reviews). I was just looking for a bit more on this one.
Thanks, yeah the equalizer is very straight forward since it is 4 band. Maybe there is something in the manual?
Please review the Exasound MC Dac that the Loki is sitting on top of. Quad all the way baby!!
Thomas is right. The final, mixed-down recordings are anything but Pure. The instruments and vocals have been processed many times over by the recording studio before the music is released to the public. As an additional note, the many feet of cable which tie all the various studio equipment together is not $400 per foot cryogenically treated oxygen free diamond-encrusted copper. Quite the opposite, actually.
I own 2 pieces of schiit and I will add a 3rd. Thanks for reviewing.
Yeah, they are good value for the money.
@@ThomasAndStereo They're good period. When you qualify your characterization of a piece of equipment by stating "for the money" it devalues the product. I own a pass labs amp and never say "for the money" when comparing it to a $20,000 airtight amp. It's just good period. I'm not criticizing you but it's a qualifier that's unneccessary. Keep up the good work.
Thomas do you notice any difference using the Loki between source and preamp vs preamp to power amp?
I only tried it from Dac to preamp.
Great summary Thomas 💯
Equalizer is super helpful thing. Sometimes it can make badly mastered recording sound better. Sometimes when you want to listen to music quietly the extreme frequencies may be lost and you can bring them back. If you know how to use it it can do magic. Of course boosting frequencies like crazy breaks the sound so you need to be careful. When watching a movie or playing music on a party tweaking the eq may give some oomph or make sound more present without being too loud so people can talk. It's good when eq has a bypass/direct switch so you can eliminate it completely from the loop without unplugging it.
Is this EQ is fully analogue without DSP?
I'm looking for a basic analogue EQ to compare with my DSP, to "see" how big the analog/digital difference is when playing AAA vinyl.
Yeah, I think it is analog. Email them to confirm.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks, will do.
Thomas, this is the review I was looking for. Thank you! I believe I'll use it maybe 20% of the time or more with my vinyl collection which consists of album's from 60's and 70's. Love my Focals 716 but some records are a little edgy on the treble. In this case the Loki will be removing sugar! Cheers, Gus, from Boston.
Thanks Gus. I really likefocal but the treble can be a bit too much sometimes.
@@ThomasAndStereo Is it true that speakers in general, in the more affordable price range are for the most part a compromise in some area? And that spekares that are absolutely perfect in every way can cost fortunes?
Very sensible guy. I subscribed.
isnt everything you put in your system a tone control of some degree?
I guess everything does affect the tone.
Yes.
Even turning the volume up or down a notch changes how we hear the EQ curve which is why
even equipment like Mcintosh will have a volume/ loudness button for lower set volumes...
AND a 3 band EQ!
True. The artists intent is always altered by the audio engineer based upon marketing and the labels discretion.
I have the McIntosh C52 which has 8 bands EQ in the preamp. I do use it sometimes to adjust sound quality and it helps. I don't believe in perfect systems, there is no such thing. Doesn't matter if you gear cost million of dollars. It always lack of something. I got the schiit loki connected to my Lumin T2 , play back through my other tube integrated amp and the loki can do some fine adjustment just to make the music sound more details. Especially some older recording that don't sound as good. This will definitely help :-)
I'm in audio dummy so excuse the dumb question but can i hook this up with my denon x4400h for music and home theater sounds? Also what cable can I use and where can I get it...thanx
no but I expect tone control already built into your denon. For HT, I don't suggest getting fancy cables.
I agree Thomas. I think if a system has a shortcoming then perhaps you correct with this directionally; set it and forget it. But then the cables to hook the tone control up can add additional influence. Say however you arrive at a sound you want with the tone control... just set it where it sounds best with the majority of music you listen to and leave it. If you are getting up from your seat to correct for different recordings you are not enjoying your music and you are rapidly moving towards that area of audiophile insanity where nothing satisfies.
lol, love it. Audiophile insanity :)
You nailed it with the salt analogy. Certain audiophiles make certain claims, yet change gear to change tones to their liking? The difference is.....?
Very insightful and IMO agreeable overview, like my loki as a (possibly) inferior system/recording equalizer.. Also use vintage Audiocontrol, Yamaha and Marantz eq's from time to time, not ashamed to admit! 😀
i did not expect the Schiit Loki to do its job without sound degradation, at least for a the cost.
i am used to full parametric eq so four set point of adjusting would feel quite inadequate for me.
Yeah, it is quite surprising how transparent it is. I do have an old full parametric equalizer too but have not used it for a while. I should one day take it out and try it.
I asked my local stereo shop expert about the Loki -- he's been in the business 40 years and has a lot of good, used equalizers in his shop. Some are 30 band but many have fewer bands and seem quite convenient. Question for you is this: Why not just buy an older, used equalizer? Is the Loki technically better or does it just have a look and simplicity that is appealing?
It depends if it is transparent or not. If those older equalizer causes you to lose fidelity, then it would be better not to have it.
The guy on right is shy of admitting that he pumps up the bass using loki. I get it, I do it too. There's nothing wrong with it. I too have same speakers and Loki for the same reason :D
Thanks Thomas - I get the Loki, I also get why it might be controversial to some audiophiles. For me, I intend on getting one, but not for enhancing my music playback system. I have recordings that I've made with one stereo mic, and although the resulting sound serves the purpose, when playing the recordings for others that might be interested in hearing the band perform live, EQ'ing the sound a bit provides a more "musical" presentation. These recording are not meant for critical listening, if we want to do that, sometimes we go for it with multiple mics and a mixer etc - these simple recordings are for musicianship evaluation. Based on what I've heard from you and others, I'm sure it will be a step up from what I'm using, so thanks again for your review.
Yup, that thing can do wonders. Thanks.
Audiophiles are much like road cyclists are with their gear: incredibly snotty, annoying twats who look down their noses at anyone not "wearing" the "right" stuff. If you want a little EQ in your listening room/system, by all means add it. Enjoy it. After all, their your ears, right?
My system is all Schiit components including the Loki. After years of being around diesel engine noise the Loki is the difference between enjoying my music or cringing. 80% of the time the first three bands are flat at their detent but the forth is added to usually around the 1 to 2 o'clock position. Not a lot but just a pinch. For me, perfect.
Yup 100% agree. It can be the difference between enjoying and cringing that little unit can do.
I chose the McIntosh C53 Pre-amp largely because it comes with an amazing 8-band Analogue EQ.... I honestly can't imagine why anyone would NOT want an EQ on a hi-fi system... I see no upside, especially a quality EQ like this that is 100% defeat-able.
When you adjust an EQ it alters phase on whatever frequencies you're working with. Not everyone will hear the same difference, if any, but the more resolving your system, the more you hear. Also, it can also be a bottleneck for sound quality. If you have really high level components, putting a low cost component that's not equally good as the rest of your system, you're going to lose a lot of what you paid for.
Here's a quick example of what I mean. Its will known that putting potentiometers in the signal path to control things like volume and tone, effect the sound in a negative way, even if you use high end pots like Alps. Instead of using a volume pot in a preamp, most really high end brands design custom volume controls to get around using pots. Its usually done using a stepped ladder of resistors. So, if you want to have a volume that goes from 0 to 99, you need to buy 100 resistors that may cost several dollars each. For assembly, someone has to soldier all 100 resistors into the volume control by hand. Its an extremely labor intensive process. (Quite often you'll see people complaining about the high cost of preamps. They don't see the value. Custom volume controls add a lot to the price.)
So, now that you went through all the trouble to eliminate a volume pot in your system, you plug an EQ into the signal path that has 4 or 6. In some systems, it just doesn't make sense to use an EQ. Just to be clear, I'm not telling anyone to not use an EQ. I'm just explaining why you may not want to use one. If you have one, and are getting good results, then you should have it. You're the one that has to listen to the system, so you should do whatever sounds best to you.
So if I had active speakers, the schiit freya +, bluesound node 3 and a external dac...where would the loki go between?
Between 2i and Freya
@@ThomasAndStereo So...
Active Speakers---->Freya---->Loki---->2i---->DAC
That’s my next thing for the Willsenton R8 I have. God I love that Willsenton with the Heresy IVs
Nice, glad you like it.
The Loki is a gem.
Many integrated amps have bass and treble controls and I believe that's the case with the Cambridge Audio 650 amp which was the first one mentioned. Why not just use the tone controls from that?
Sure, if you have it built in BUT not all tone control work as well. It all depends on how far you can push your amp before it distorts.
@@ThomasAndStereo Yeah, that kind of makes sense. I have tone controls on my Arcam amps and I find they satisfy my needs.... although I haven't heard a Loki or anything similar to compare it with. Thanks for replying and all the best for the future. I really enjoy your videos
To put a Loki between my source and my amp, I had to add another cable. One cable into the Loki, one cable out. With the cables that I currently have on hand, there are 7 cable combinations possible. I have tried them all, and I have a definite favorite.
Nice, so the Loki was a good investement for you?
@@ThomasAndStereo The Loki has been interesting, and educational. I hardly use it at all any more, but this is the best my headphone system has sounded, so I leave it in the chain.
Yeah, it was a good investment. I've got my money's worth out of it. And I can move it to my speaker system next time I want to change things up there.
Thank you Thomas. How can I connect my loki mini to my Rega Elex mk4 amp so that I can adjust all my sources?
In between your source and the Rega. If the source is built inside the Rega, then you cannot use the Loki.
@@ThomasAndStereo thank you Thomas.
Great video as usual Thomas! I really like the "buddy" videos that you have been doing!
Thanks, will be making more.
I really love the Loki, I just wish they would make a model with a remote!
And now they do ;)
I think you really have to talk about implementation of the Loki: where it is hooked into the system. Schiit themselves don't provide any amplifier with a tape/processor loop to insert the Loki. So, it's either between source and preamp or between preamp and power amp. Which style of hook up is going to affect the listening outcome. Which is 'best'?
I only tried it between the DAC and Preamp. I wonder if it changes the sound if I put it in between the preamp and amp. Unfortunately, I have already moved on to review other gear so I would not have the time to seriously test that.
It really doesn't matter as long as your pre amp is a good match that won't over power Loki input.
The Loki has a very little noise so you could connect it directly to a power amp.
@@stevemiller9480 Thanks!
Why are audiophiles OK with changing sound and tone with cables and not an equalizer? Because they are flaming hypocrites, that is why! "Oh I want it to sound like it did in the studio" Well unless you were at the actual recording that is impossible. Also what it sounded like live in the studio, compared to what it sounded like when the engineer mixed it to with the speakers he was using don't always match either.
I think they are aiming for flat response. I have to say having heard some system configured that way, it does sound different than a system with a v curve. I personally like v curve but understand my friends who are searching for the flat curve. (Well nothing is actually flat but you know)
"Why are audiophiles OK with changing sound and tone with cables and not an equalizer? " - that's a psychology topic! Do not try to find a rational explanation...
Rumblestrip.NET I suspect the reason is that with better cables that a "cleaner" more detailed reproduction may be possible, not so much a change in tone. Adding an equalizer will not do this. An equalizer is useful for increasing or decreasing bass, treble or mids ( I am sure you know this already). I suspect they are best used to make poor recordings more palatable but they inevitably will make a revealing system less detailed on great recordings. I have my parametric eq on my preamp tape monitor circuit so I can have it in the audio chain when desired and switch it out of circuit when not desired. You are right, hard to ever know exactly what it sounded like in the studio. I suspect with the speakers being used these days in some studios that I may be getting as good or "better" fidelity from my home system.
Have you tried with a good linear power supply? Maybe than it would be totally transparent.
No I have not, I am actually looking for a good one for my Dac.
You're 100% correct....we can't recreate what the artist intended. We don't even know what that was.
As for cables (inc power cables), whether you think you can or can't hear any difference in sound, I think that's prime component where proper blind testing is worthwhile. The results may truly surprise and there will be no doubt one way or the other, that what you're hearing is exactly that & not what you think you're hearing.
😎
This 'purity' jargon is just that. It's hung around in the industry for way too long. It doesn't make sense. The gear that each of us buy is for our pleasure...no more no less.
***No edit, but I can't seem to cut and paste on my phone. Seems 8 started texting in the wrong place.
The last paragraph (bit about the jargon), should be the 2nd para. Doesn't make a huge difference, just a bit out of order/disjointed. Sorry about that
I think i need to add a microwave to my system!!!!
Glad you did this video. Would the Loki have any problems working with tube amps?
My tube gear is teaching me about how little changes can help a system.
As you know, I purchased the Musical Paradise MP-D1 tube dac.
When I changed the tubes from the stock tubes that came with it to Gold Lion 6922s, it removed an edginess in the top that was bothering me. The new tubes didn't cover it, or roll it off, but instead it was gone and I could "see" or hear through the highs much, much better.
This has given me more openmindedness to the idea that other small changes like cables or something like the Loki could be a positive addition.
And you are right, a lot of times it's not our systems but bad recordings or re-formats.
If your system sounds good most of the time, it seems to make more sense trying some of these small changes than it would be to run out and start upgrading.
i have the loki between the ifi itube buffer ,which uses a 6922 ge tube and adds 6db of gain,to my gilmore lite headphone amp.no problems. btw wait untill you put some nos tubes in that dac,they are far better than the gold lions. ge's have a nice even sweet tone,mullards are smooth with more low mid .simens and amperex are very nice as well.
@@yaniv-nos-tubes Thanks!
Yes you can and it can change the sound significantly. However the mp301 does not have a lot of headroom so bass change will be limited and might even introduce distortion. Congrats on the tube change, I think I have the gold lion too.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you! I'll confess, that was more of a "what if" question.
My intentions are to look first at tubes and interconnects, and changing speakers.