How Much Are You ACTUALLY Paying for Watercolors?
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Last week were deep in the feels. This week we're getting nerdy again! I wanted to know: how much are we actually paying for our watercolors after accounting for the water weight? Using popular brands of tube paints readily available to me in the US, I wanted to see how much color each dries down when poured fresh from the tube.
This is not a perfect experiment and it's not meant to be exhaustive. I'm just one lil gal with limited finances, so I couldn't include every brand. My apologies if I couldn't include your favorite. My hope for this video is that it gets us thinking about more than a flat sticker price when it comes to placing value on our supplies.
Will I repeat this test on new paints for the rest of time? Of course not! But noticing how much a color shrinks (or doesn't) is good to keep in mind when deciding what colors to buy moving forward. As always, happy painting!
Google Doc with my data and calculations! docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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* Timestamps *
0:00 Explanation & Disclaimers
1:58 The Experiment
4:20 Visual Results
7:28 Data Results
10:28 Notes on Performance
* Captions *
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Daydreaming by Ian Post
Watercolor geekery is some of my favorite geekery. I have been going a little swatch crazy of late (and loving it).
I loved this level of nerddom. I remember seeing Schmincke uses a 3-layer process where they pour, let completely dry, pour, etc. so that the entire pan is filled (they might even compress it?). I have a feeling other brands do this too given that most pans you buy aren’t drying and pulling away from the edges, which tends to happen with homemade pours. That’s why I was happy you did this based on weight, not just ‘price per pan’ since that is not a fair comparison of how much the paint actually costs. It’s interesting that they are all so similar in price per ml (minus davinci) and I think this is valuable info for people who agonise over a few pence (cents) difference in prices on the shelf 😊
Thanks, Sarah! Indeed, it is very much standard practice to use multiple pours (Schmincke, Da Vinci, Daniel Smith), and I'd definitely recommend people do that at home too if they want pretty pans as well :) I was also surprised to see how similar most of them are price wise. It definitely removes some of the guilt about using the brands I perceived to be more expensive.
Thanks for all your nerdy work too on your gouache series! They've been really helpful videos :)
Nerdy is right! :-) To further cloud the waters, I'll offer that I would take tubes of Sakura Koi paired with Arches paper, rather than any expensive paint paired with cheap paper. Thanks for this video!
Maybe the kind of Sakura Koi paints my sister got were student grade or does Koi only have one type? As had no color info on tubes or box & even on cotton paper felt like jelly? Ty as one color (Carmine) was not that way 🤔?
Watercolor nerdery at its finest! Know that you are not alone. The rest of us are all here for it and this is one of the best channels to feed that shared addiction. 🥰
Da Vinci has many colors in 37ml tubes, they are a great value. I buy as many of those as possible. Very interesting video, thank you for creating it.
Agreed, I often wait for when they have a sale too and stock up. You can get paint for so so cheap during one of their sales
That's a great point! I didn't have a good point to mention it in the video, but if you take a look at the spreadsheet in the description, I tried to use the most "standard" size tube from each brand to calculate prices. However the 37ml tubes from DV make them even more affordable!
They just had a nice sale during Memorial Day & got 3 tubes of colors use most.
Weighing them is interesting and so glad found your videos as was struggling with student grade paint & cellulose paper and Da Vinci’s paints are very good & reasonably priced.
I know, I wish they would do all their colors in that size!!!
My best tip to keeping hair and dust out of paint is making a paper sleeve, that's twice as tall as the pans. Slide them in the sleeve, then carefully place them on a shelf where the open end is a few inches away from the wall/sides. Much harder for the dust and detratus to blow in, and the airflow, while slightly reduced, isn't cut off.
I think I may have said this before, but dang you have one of the best voices on CZcams. Nice video. I prefer buying tubes over pans. Shrinkage happens. Such is life.
I really enjoyed this comparison. I can always nerd out on watercolor. My issue with non standardized half pans is that it’s just annoying that they all don’t look the same in your palette. It’s good to know some of my favorite brands are a good value. I just ordered several DV tubes including Denise’s Green.🥰
I had a smile on my face the whole time you were showing the dried pans. Cat hair, just like the cat, says, "No, I'm going to be involved. Deal with it." 😂 Also, thank you for giving me an idea of what to expect when I finally get the courage to open my tubes and fill my palette.
This was really helpful! Thank you so much for taking the time to compare all these brands and sharing your results!
Da Vinci comes out the clear winner for me. I love their paints and with the exception of a four of M. Graham colors, use them exclusively. Their prices and customer service can't be beat either. :)
which 4 m graham colors?
@@Zyswest somehow I'm betting anthraquinone blue is one
@@Zyswest Sorry, I didn't see your comment for a long time. The four M. Graham paints I was using when you asked are: Viridian (PG18), Cobalt Teal (PB28), Payne's Grey (PBk9&PB29), and Nickle Azo Yellow (PY150). I have since added Transparent Red Iron Oxide (PR101) and Dioxazine Purple (PV23). I'd love to have more, but will have to wait until I find them on sale.
@@jennw6809 Oddly, no. I use Sennelier's PB60 as I got a 10ml tube at a big discount. It's lovely.
I LOVE this video! It was the combination of your incredible talent and pigment info that drew me to the channel. As much as I love the creative side of hobbies like painting, knitting, etc., it does my little nerd heart happy to delve into the science behind the tools and supplies needed for these hobbies. Well done. Thank you for this! This is a better start to the weekend than I had anticipated.
I'm so glad that you enjoyed it! I was so worried that it would be too boring and almost didn't go through with the editing. Thank you for the kind words 🥰
Very neat! Thanks for testing the paints and sharing the results. I kind of expected the more "wet" paints to shrink more. It's been a great info!
The results were really insightful! I'm glad they're helpful for you, too.
Nerd love! Great video. I originally tried to track price per ml, but soon realized that the amount of pigment, binder and water made that irrelevant. Your experiment was great, and a pretty good comparison. Thanks Denise!
In Europe, Talens Rembrandt is the most affordable professional brand, with the price per ml being 0.41€ at a shop where I buy them. (€ vs $ are about the same at the moment so it compares to your prices.) Half the price of W&N, and frankly I don't notice any difference in quality.
Winsor & Newton doesn't recommend making homemade pans out of their tubes, because they use a different formula for tubes and pans.Tubes are difficult to re-wet, as you've noted. But that may mean their pigment to binder ratio is more favorable...
EDIT: Just saw another comment mentioning this, and your response... I searched the comments before writing this comment and really hadn't seen it the first time, sorry to beat a dead horse!
Great video, but Da Vinci is actually quite expensive and hard to find outside of the US, meaning that it sometimes comes to much higher price when compared with other pro brands. But I really enjoyed the video and had fun watching! Thanks! 😊
I understand, that's why I made numerous disclaimers about me living in the US and not being able to calculate prices for countries. Hope it helps if you want to do your own calculations!
A big difference in M. Graham is that they use honey as a binder, that may explain the consistency as it dried.
Interesting. You did a good job explaining.
This is fascinating. Thank you so much for your willingness to share your nerdy side with us. I always learn things.
This is a very, very good video. I appreciate how you collected the data and how you presented them in the graphs. The information was very clear and easy to understand. 👍🏼
Thank you so much!!
Hullo Denise, I have enjoyed watching your “techie” videos for years and watching them brings me joy and knowledge! How can that be beat? It cannot! Glad to see you doing well and creating videos for your viewers and followers! Please take care, be safe and enjoy your new habitation. Stay well.
Ok I need that DaVinci Burnt Sienna Deep it’s gorgeous 🥰
Aaah, exactly the kind of nerdiness I love to see! Thank you for this little experiment :D
I actually AM a data scientist and I applaud how well you acknowledged and tried to control variables within reason 🎉 and you did so while keeping this process understandable to the laypersons. So props to you 🤓🫶🏻
Also your chartsmanship is excellent. You oriented the audience to your graphics well! 😅
Thank you, Melissa! I really appreciate that. I was hoping to at least not be cringy to the actual scientific process 😆💜
Fantastic video!! Thanks for all the work you put into this video and for sharing it with us.
Thanks for this video! Something I've thought about with regards to value is how much you actually turn out liking the paints you get. For example, from the past several years I have a bunch of Daniel Smith paint that I'm disappointed with and don't like using, because it turned out to not be lightfast, to be glossy in masstone or behave weirdly in some way, in contrast to QoR where I've loved every single colour I've tried, except for the Transparent Brown Oxide (am happy I only have a tiny sample of that one). So DS paint now feels like it can be a complete loss of money, whereas the QoR "never" disappoints (oh how many birthdays and Christmases have been enriched by QoR paints 😊).
Yes!! There are some brands I'm almost never disappointed by and some others that seem to always get tossed in a bag never to be touched again lol
@@bonlynx It feels so nice to not be alone in that! Also Rembrandt and Schminke (though I ADORE some of their paints) I feel disappointed by more than I would like, and I'm feeling less inclined to take chances. So I really, thanks to CZcams videos, cherry pick the exceptional ones.
@@hannahthufvesson yep youtube videos have helped me so much to thankfully be disappointed less often
@@bonlynx They are so, so helpful! ☺️
This is a very good point. I’ve had some things I’ve given away, some I’ve sold if they were less used. My Winsor and Newton pro palette was on sale (an oddly-low price tbh) but still with half the pans not my favourite and much less used, they’re sitting around. I occasionally get impulsive with buying things though I’ve learned what I like, and I clear stuff out annually, books and clothes etc too. When you notice what you didn’t use very much, it’s a shame.
Thank you for your work Denise 🙏❤
Great information - thanks for doing all this work. This was really fascinating.
Nerd Love! ♥ Oh how I love videos like this! Experiments, dupes, tips and tricks.... and pigment info. Makes my heart go pitter-pat! 😍
Wow, putting aside all else, thank you for the effort involved.
I had misconceptions about M. Graham and QoR in that I, too, expected QoR to be most expensive and MG to be medium-priced. Made me feel guilty for preferring QoR: guilt be gone! Also, as someone with dog hair that goes everywhere (how?!), seeing how the honey attracted hair was a real eye-opener. I will def be trying more DV. They have some unique colors that are intriguing!
I had very similar assumptions to yours! Interesting how much they vary from brand to brand. My palette is all over the board with what paints I prefer from what brands. This kind of inspired me to do my own (not so scientific) research on the paints I already own! P.S. glad to know I'm not the only one struggling with pet hair lol
Brand to brand and color to color! I was really surprised that MGraham went from least to most shrinkage between the two colors!
Very interesting. Thank you for doing all the work
Oh I go through that also especially if I am down to my not so favorite brand but I know I shouldn’t complain. I do enjoy some DS but man it disappears. Guess what PR19 has recently become my favorite “quin rose” that doesn’t dull when drying? Sennelier Rose Madder Lake. Oh my word! I have been doing a lot of botanicals and got the larger tube for studio palette. It is the most beautiful “quin rose” I have ever seen. I just have a few Sennelier, mostly DaVinci, DS, MGraham, W &N and a few Holbein. The Sennelier Rose Madder Lake just is gorgeous!!😊Interesting research Denise!
Interesting video. 😁 Shrinkage is a given and you could see with every brand it was fairly similar and comparable even in spite of testing errors and variables. I prefer tubes and just allow for some amount of pan shrinkage. I don’t think I’d ever change brands of paint due to shrinkage. There are too many other factors that determine which brands of paint I buy.
Thanks for the video!
I feel you on the other factors. I like the unusual colours some brands make, and if they come in half pans and smaller tubes, it’s easier to buy some than commit to a 15ml tube.
Omg, I love these types of videos. Time to nerd out!
Daniel Smith is only relatively recently available here, but I'm considering a watercolor stick because of the value. Its supposed to equal 3 full pans I believe and is significantly more economical. Although, they are available in less colors
This was very entertaining btw, don't sell yourself short!
Cheap Joe’s has American Journey watercolor sticks and are a much better value and I believe that they will ship internationally.
@@mjpete27 oooo I didn’t know that.
@@keepyourshoesathedoor I guess it depends on where you live and if the money is really going to be a savings or not, good luck!
DaVinci for the win! I've actually thought for a long time that they have similar pigmentation to W&N and Schmincke; they only are weaker compared to the other US brands. Looking at your swatches at the end, I'm not even sure that's fair to say. I do find their phthalos to be noticeably less pigmented, especially the greens, but I've concluded that's a feature, not a bug (to make them easier to handle). I see why you love the Sennelier ultramarine -- I'll have to try that someday! Oh and isn't it interesting how DS paints pan so terribly 😅
I thought I was a nerd but you win by far. Thank you so much for your work
Thanks for your nerdy arse-ness! This was very interesting and a test (pigment payout) I’ve been wanting to do in my own studio. I am in an arid climate so I’m drawn to the honey-based watercolors, although I won’t say no to any brand. I’ve found the honey-based brands to be more vibrant-and that’s just for me, in my opinion. I enjoy Rosà immensely…that surprised me! I’m beginning to fall in love with several DaVinci colors (actually your Green tops my list!)
Thanks so much for your time & insights. Great video!!
This was great! Thank you. I became a fan of Da Vinci after watching your videos.
4:09 I also love this one - it’s good for us who wonder why all the disclaimers… It’s like, we forget how messed up some ppl are 😅 And that many have some kind of problem they need to let loose online
Awesome video, such a good idea, thank you for those data points! I calculated the price per pound, US dollars, for the paint I use. It was $230/lb. That is the price of something precious. Keep up the good work!
This was interesting. Raised my eyebrows once or twice. But I am not surprised at DV being such a good value
Oh, this is amazing. I’ve done some AuDHD-fuelled deep dives myself. Not this, though, I’m not that sciencey or patient. I’ve heard good things about Da Vinci but when I finally found some on a UK website, the price, yikes. They only had palettes of 12 or 24, I think. Then some brands only sell 15ml tubes so the upfront cost is higher, so it’s interesting to see M Graham come out lower. Though they’re also expensive in the UK, Daniel Smith isn’t as bad unless that’s just the difference between the 5ml and 15ml tubes.
I have three dogs, so stray hairs are not new to me, but this video reinforced why I don't have cats. 😅 Love the data analysis, though! Thanks for putting in the time and effort to figure this out.
Absolutely love this video!!! I love science!!
So interesting! thanks.
This was so interesting….thanks!
This was definitely food for thought, although I think it's making my head spin! Though I have a Master's degree, it is about the farthest from any physical science you can get, but here is a couple of issues I've found because of where I live. I live in Florida and it's all true that it is hot and humid here! All the time! I keep my house well air-conditioned and have a ceiling fan in my studio that runs 24/7.
Even taking the A/C into consideration, I've found that most honey-based paints tend to either never dry completely (M. Graham) or the honey actually beads up on the top of the pans (White Nights). I do have Renesans paints, which have honey, and really like them, but I suspect there is another binder in them that keeps this from happening.
I also have a very weird issue with QOR. When I am using it, it tends to separate and get kind of grainy (all colors) as it dries on my mixing palette. When it's completely dry, it is so grainy, I can't rewet it. I paint really small things (mostly pen-drawn botanicals with watercolor washes) and I'm not using a lot of paint at once, but the QOR paints are frustrating because I cannot keep enough of a mix on the palette wet.
Daniel Smith always performs well for me and though I am not a brand loyalist either, I tend to stick with them because of how they work in my environmental conditions.
You would think that inside conditions would negate the effects of the climate, but Florida being what it is, that heat and humidity effects everything! At least I never have to shovel snow. There is that.😊
Very nice … amazing to see the cost vs quantity. I would like to have seen Van Goghs big brother Rembrandt in there. Cost analysis and such. 😊 Keep up the good work
I have mostly DV, and the number of Daniel Smith has grown to a few now. 3rd is MG with only two paints. 2 tiny tubes of Winsor and Newton. There are other brands I would like to try from Europe but the price to get it in the US is a stretch, for me. 🌻
Thank you for this! It's like toothpaste. Concentrations are different, as well as size. I like the, "geeky little charts." Anecdotally, I've observed Qor has small tubes, but I so much more concentrated it is generous. Cat's are worth picking the hair out of most everything. (Flood, emergency move- YIKES)
Thanks!
Keep feeding is nerdy videos 😊
Seriously though - thanks for the research and good presentation ❤
this is really interesting 🤔 Winsor & Newton is by far the cheapest in the UK so I think I'll stick with them ☺
It would be interesting to compare professional and student brands to see which is the better value.
Love the details that went into this video.
Beginners question for you, do you wash the pans first to remove manufacturing oils? Would it make a difference to how well the paint sticks to the side of the pan? I'm still waiting for my first paints to arrive in the mail, but I'm looking forward to trying some experiments.
Thanks! It might help, but I never do! It isn't usually an issue, though Daniel Smith does have a tendency to pop out of their pans.
I definitely wish all brands used a standard size half pan & full pan as my palette is a mix of brands. I find my Daniel Smith paints pull away from the walls as well, sometimes months after being put into pans which can be super frustrating. As a Canadian I haven't tried DaVinci yet because trying to justify $50 for shipping is hard but after seeing the price comparison graph I will consider them more seriously the next time multiple palette colours need replacing.
I agree regarding Canada and Da Vinci. Might get them whenever I land in the States or ask a friend there to buy them for me! Art supply prices in Canada are, well, exorbitant! Buying from Jackson’s is cheaper sometimes!
@@vikram1477 I often buy from Jackson's if not, I find that Deserres or independent art shops tend to offer the best rates.
Rembrandt by Talens is very afordable in Europe. Gerstaecker sell the 20ml tubes.
When I buy tubes from different brand, something I noticed is that the volume of the 5ml tubes seems a bit off. For instance, the Schmincke tube I have seems to be way shorter than the Daniel Smith tube. To be fair, the Schmincke one seems to be a bit fatter but I’m not sure if they really have the same amount of paint. Also, how much paint do you actually get from a pan . I know 1ml of tube pan will last longer than 1ml of liquid paint but I always wonder how much. In my local art supply store , they sale Sennelier half pan almost the same price as the 10ml tubes. I just wonder which is more economical ,buying a tube or a pan?
I recently read on instagram that someone from the official Schmincke account said that for half pans they use roughly 5ml of paint and for a full pan about 10ml. But I don't know if the amount is similar for other brands.
I can tell you for certain that the VERY expensive 40 pan set of super granulating colors has half pans that are so shallow that they are only about 2/3 of a normal half pan. Not impressed!
Interesting !
I use mostly Sennelier and some of the colors shrunk like the one you tested (671 and 435) but the others didn't (501, 517,640,675, 599 etc etc i have 27 sennelier pan that I pourred). :)
Do you have a video or list of your favorite watercolor choices? You mentioned that you like Sennelier ultramarine deep which I also love so we might have similar taste curious to know what else you love and use Most often.
There's a whole "Favorites" playlist! czcams.com/play/PLKxdsT579aLyyEBWrRVXjfaZuZ3atUJp2.html It's one I revisit often.
@@natashajohnson5776 Thank you very much
Just watch a few of Denise’s favorite videos and you will have your knowledge increase about your watercolor choices, best of luck and enjoy watching more videos!
Thanks for linking the playlist Natasha! I meant to link the Top 40 colors video in a card but finished this upload pretty late. Thanks for reminding me to do that today! Also, hoping to update the colors and brands videos this year :)
For me in Australia both American brands and European brands particularly W & N are so expensive and Holbein is so cheap it's almost a mute point really.
I now use nothing but DaVinci paints because they are probably one of the most cost-effective, PROFESSIONAL grade paints in the world....and made in the USA as an added bonus to those in the states. I also don't care much for honey based paints at any cost. Too many issues for me with mold and attracting everything that floats by...not to mention they don't really dry down very well, and can really be a mess in certain situations.
If I remember well, Winsor & Newton has separate formulas for their pans and tubes, and their tube paints aren't meant to be pourued and dried, that's why they rewet poorly.
Yep, that's something I've talked about numerous times on the channel. Most of their tube colors rewet fine though and I've used them for years in my W&N palette. I just really don't like their burnt sienna ;)
I just recently ordered from Jackson’s and they used a huge box filled with paper causing me to pay a huge tariff doubling the cost on already very expensive watercolor only to have them put it on sale 2 days later… lol.
That comment is a little silly and that's also why I buy tubes and fill my own pans. It's much easier to compare price points. Da Vinci has big tubes, some other bands only sell tiny tiny tubes for the same or higher price. I wouldn't say I'm a brand loyalist & I have several brands in my palette but I keep seeing them get hate for silly reasons and in my experience they are the best value. And this video just proves that. Look how lush and vibrant those swatches are!! People say they have more binder but my god look how gorgeous!! Some of the "fancier" brands just can't compare. I want my paints to have the range that DV has. Their swatches can go from super dark to super light which is exacty what I want so I have full control. It is so frustrating to me when a color is really weak lol. Also there is a certain other brand touted as the best/ or is often people's favorite but they have some ucky yucky business practices and that is a big factor to me as well when choosing what to buy. Anyway this video is so valuable thank you for doing this!!
Especially since, as far as I can tell, there is no "Standard" half pan. Everyone's half pans are slightly different, as anyone who has tried to put a W&N pan in a holder not designed for it (or vice versa) can tell you!
@@FranNyan I can tell you for certain that the VERY expensive 40 pan set of super granulating colors from Schmincke has half pans that are so shallow that they are only about 2/3 of a normal half pan. Not impressed!
@@FranNyan exactly!!
My qor colors still last longer than all my other paints!
They're very concentrated!
Turns out I was justified in my love of Da Vinci LOL
Hmm.. I was expecting to weigh same amount of paint and see how large area you can paint with it. I've found that paints have very different capabilities in this regard. Some paints can be more expensive in weight but can paint much larger areas than cheaper ones.
1:19 😂😂😂 tis-tis-tis (bonus info: tis is urin in Danish)
Why didn’t you just compare pan pricing? This didn’t make much sense to me
You can look at pan prices yourself. Professional pans are filled multiple times or are extruded paint using a different formula. The entire point was to compare the value of tube paints.
Ok now the title just called me out
This is classic Denise Soden content! 😅 It is never going to have any effect at all on how I paint, but so help me, it is still right up my alley - the nerdier the better!
First!
🤣Really? (I do love this though. 😉)
@@natashajohnson5776 😂😂
I'll take Daniel Smith over all these other brands any day of the week.. loss or no loss - their quality and pigment is second to none!
Preference is preference and you can like what you like, but their quality is not the second to none, and their customer service has been the worst I have ever experienced with any company for anything!
I agree! I love Daniel Smith ~ and especially the primateks!
@radish Links to this please? First I've ever heard of it!
@@mjpete27 Sorry - have to disagree. Look at most youtubers and artists using DS and they all agree their quality is great! From my own experience - they work so much better than many others. Curious why you need DS customer service? Did you purchase from them directly? Why not just go through the company you purchased with?
@@pesto12601 yeah a lot have disagreed with me but some have not. I had trouble with some Pirma tech paint separating problems with the pigment filler and medium I was told by my retail outlet it was a manufacture problem, the company said there was no problem. They got quite nasty about it and told me they’d rather not bother having me as a customer and they make good products and are not interested in malcontents. I was always polite never antagonistic. I will not be going into how I was treated, it was not good. Of course how was I to know they were being sued for this problem currently and for the lack of actual gemstones in their gemstone paints! Needless to say I will never use or promote or encourage others to use products from a corrupt company! One that I feel has truly lost sense of purpose and reason for why they’re here to create products for artist to create with. Sorry for the long winded explanation but they’re jerks and I hate them.
It’s a shame any fillers, brighteners or other additions aren’t listed with any brand 🫣