Wayfarers of the South Tigris Review: Land & Water & Space Oh, My!
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- Tom, Mike, Wendy, & Chris take a look at Wayfarers of the South Tigris!
Intro 0:00
Overview 2:12
Review 11:38
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BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3... - Hry
Wow! What a great review, and some very fair critiques. Thanks so much Dice Tower for covering Wayfarers :)
It’s great Sam, keep it up! 😊
Damn Kiwis! love your games cuz! i will be getting this trilogy too. (from Perth WA)
Not just a Shem Phillips game! Sam clearly has a big role to play in these games too! And he's definitely shown he can pull his own weight as evidenced by the two Circadians games
One rules mistake (or maybe just not clearly explained): the Science guild allows you to spend influence to move a second time on the journal track - it doesn't allow you to take the journal action. (You have to already be taking the journal action; the Science guild lets you extend that action.)
I like the card influence mechanism. It's not just a way to make people pay you, it also is a way of sort of reserving a card or an action space for yourself. (Placing the influence on the card affects the card, the adjacent action space, and any workers that could be pulled from the card.) You aren't exactly reserving it, but you're making people think twice about taking the space or card. I think that's pretty neat.
We played the Science Guild correctly, but I must’ve misspoke during the overview. Thanks for the clarification!
This one was a beast to learn, but so much fun to play. I think it may be the heaviest Garphill game to date.
Yeah, they initially described it as a similar weight to Viscounts (not as heavy as Paladins), and I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. This is a pretty dang heavy game, and the fact that Wayfarers is even more open than Paladins makes me think I'd probably consider it even heavier than that.
Mike's high level overview explanation was great to give a good taste of how this plays.
Wayfarers is favorite of the released Medieval Trilogy games, although I have been fortunate enough to playtest the next game Scholars of the South Tigris and it's even better. Instant day 1 Kickstarter back for me.
I like the game a lot but have a few issues: the player who finished the jounral track always won our games. There is no reason why you shouldnt rush, if someone rushes the track, the townsfolkcards are useless. The best strategy is to get the most different landscape cards, buy some upgrades and rush the track. The winner of our games had about 60 vp
Nice review. Another hit by Shema and Sam. I've backed everything they've done so far aside from Circadians. I couldn't get past that art style. Looking forward to the next one in the series.
Excellent review, as always. I totally understand that tiny iconography complaint as we already struggled a bit playing Architects due to the same issue but, overall, this is a minor thing of a great game.
Couldn't agree more with all of you. I've played 3 solo games so far, Mike is right saying with more plays you realize the amazing choices you have to make. The automa is amazing btw, probably my favorite so far (par with Viscount maybe). Great game overall, pity for the insert with nothing big enough to cover the whole box and make sure nothing flies when the box is closed and vertical, but I appreciate the effort. Totally recommend and looking forward to buying Scholars of the South Tigris
Wish they had stuck to the small box sizes - its obvious from the box in front of Tom that there is a huge amount of air packaged into this one. The argument of "it leaves room for expansions" especially fails when the team agrees that the game feels complete as is, with no need for expansions!
I really hated the journal track. You need to plan so far ahead, and sometimes the required symbols just don't come up.
Too long of a game, takes solid 3 to 4 hours for 4 players. The influence tokens on cards as tax was horrible idea.
Not everyone has to like it, so maybe it's just not for you...but planning the path on the journal track is just part of the game. You don't have to plan, and journaling doesn't necessarily get you any points in itself...and there are plenty of ways to search for the required symbols... especially with the eagles. That said, that should also be a part of your plan. Don't take an inspiration card or go down a particular path if you might not be able to get the symbols you need soon. As for time, I can't speak to 4p, but I have a hard time seeing it take more than 90-120 minutes if everyone takes their turn without AP (which then is a player issue, not a game issue). Lastly, the I think the influence is a brilliant system. It doesn't block people from doing the actions they want or taking the worker/card they want, but it does allow you to make their strategy more expensive or help protect your strategy.
Again, everyone has different tastes, so maybe this game isn't for you and that's just fine...but I really enjoyed the mechanics that you didn't.
Surprised Tom did not mention the Box Size/Organization.. he has complaining about the box sizes for every garphill game ever.... this one is a normal box size and even includes an insert :D
You guys really sold this one on me. Great review as always!
To @Mike regarding the caravan mechanic. “Bonfire” kinda has that same type of thing. Not exactly, but that’s what it kinda reminds me of.
So far Shem Phillips games have been hits for me. Here is another one I’m going to have to try. Doll for some reason I thought this was a solo only game…
Shem has a game coming out soon that's called Legacy of Yu that's a solo-only game. That's probably what you were thinking of, but that's part of his ancient anthology line, not medieval trilogies (which are co-designed by S J Macdonald)
First time I've agreed fully with a DT review. I like Raiders and Explorers but didn't like any of the West Kingdom games but enjoy this one both solo and multiplayer. Will we get a solo review of this game by Mike?
Though I haven’t played Wayfarers yet, the caravan board reminds me of Santa Maria.
Has instantly shot to the top of my Garphill Games list, beating out Viscounts. The first game is a bit of a beast but it soon clicks and then it's a world of possibilities. The solo AI is also great - it looks more complex than it is.
Love reviews where everyone loves the game.
Something that would make reviews where most people enjoy it better: since everyone's final thoughts are gonna be similar, maybe share some real life examples in the final thoughts. "I like the game because _____, for example in one playthrough I did _______" I was really craving more real examples of how what they like played out. you all talked a lot about the cool choices and agency, but real examples of those decisions/choices would have been even better!
Except those reviews are useless. If no one dislikes something then you're not getting a great picture of the downsides.
@@darinherrick9224 I just went back and skimmed the video.... the iconography is overwhelming, the first teach is overwhelming/long, the worker mechanism with the X on the card is pointless... They covered multiple negatives, I think you're overreacting
It seems like all the games in this series are increasing in complexity as they go. I wonder if that's a choice or a natural progression of the designers' abilites. Explorers and Shipwrights were light, Raiders and Architects were light-medium, Paladins and Viscounts are medium/heavy, and now this one seems heavy. I mean they're comparing the decision space to Feast for Odin? Raiders with hall of heroes is my favorite in terms of weight and ease of play. Architects was OK but Paladins felt like accounting and Viscounts I just could never wrap my head around. I'm hoping they go back to lighter designs but I don't think it's happening that way.
Hey Jon - yeah that's true, and a big part of that is my fault. Since I've started designing with Shem we've designed heavier games (which we like). Sorry that we've been moving in a direction that is not to your tastes. Have you tried some of Shem's solo works? Shelfie Stacker, Noctiluca, Raiders of Scythia?
@@sammacdonald337it’s very hard to get players for heavier games, no so much for medium or bit lighter games. Therefore I cannot buy this game as nobody will play with me.
@@Greggiexplore good thing there are so many great games being made these days - I'm sure you'll find some that suit your group's tastes :)
Can‘t wait
The caravan area feels like a cheaper way to do dice-building.
I would agree with the icons being unclear sometimes. 5 more examples in the rulebook would have really cleared things up (there's even a line about not explaining and they'll make sense). Two important things that influence my opinion here.
1. I'm pretty good at interpreting rulebook, special cards, and icons in general.
2. Wayfarers is my FIRST game of this series!
So I wonder if I wouldn't have had an issue if I knew things from previous games. Cards like "1 + (yellow upgrade icon):1" were vague to me at first.
Sort of like, "watch this new mavel movie, here are the 4 you need to watch first for it to make sense" 😅
Anyway, still an awesome game and one I'm really excited about. Just echoing Mike's opinion there.
The cards that say “1+(yellow upgrade icon):1” are STILL vague to me. Worse than vague. I don’t know what it means at all. Can you tell me?
@@shanerion Sure. I don't have the game in front of me right now, but I'll do my best with an online rulebook and memory.
The card you are referring to would have a baseline of "1" victory point (that's what the first 1 means). Then it has an additional "1 point per yellow card you have in your tableau". So it's "1 + (1 per yellow card you own).
If you had 3 yellow cards, you would get 4 total points.
The rulebook scoring example "3rd space card" on page 19 is the closest example to this. 1 point + 1 per every 2 black influence.
But yes, it's not super clear. I find the "4th space card" where the "+" means "pairs of these two things" especially problematic. That one is explained in the rulebook as it's your starting space card. But still, both the 3rd and 4th example are formatted the same, but with different meanings.
Anyways, hope that helps. Still one of my favorite games, so it's worth the struggle. Once you get it down there are thankfully not too many different formats so it becomes much easier quickly.
I love this game SO much! It seems a little complex at first glance, but once it's up and running this baby purrs! One of my top games of the year for sure! Thanks as always for the great review Dice Tower! Happy holidays!
Coins and provisions are tight in this game - influence can really help
Cool
I’ve tabled this game twice at a game night and soloed it about 5 times. It’s fantastic and I agree with pretty much everything that was said. I’m with Tom on the idea that I can just enjoy building my tableau win or lose. Very fun game that I want to play multiplayer more than solo but both options work well. A 4 player game is long but still enjoyable.
This is a very good luck based game, if you're trying to get certain card symbols the rest of the cards you need might not appear
But its still a fun experience
I've been liking this game, there is just enough going on.
Nice audio! ;)
Between wayfarers and scholars which do u like better?
Scholars is more strategic so i like that game better
Nice review. Thanks for pointing out the problems with the iconography. Much of it is familiar, if you have played the previous trilogy. But if you're coming to the game as a new player, the limited reference page on the back of the rulebook is really frustrating. I had this same issue with Viscounts. Some icons are buried in explanations earlier in the rulebook, but aren't summarized on the back -- meaning lots of flipping through the rules on the first couple of plays. And then there are a few times when you come across a new townsfolk or other card with a combination of icons that aren't represented ANYWHERE in the rules and you waste time trying to find an explanation and have to resort to the BGG forum or come to some agreement among the players before you can move on. Just put ALL the icons on the back, or on a reference card!!
I agree with this! Viscounts was the first Garphill game I played, and I was totally overwhelmed by the iconography/underwhelmed by the rulebook. At this point I have played enough of them that Wayfarers makes sense to me, but I think it would be a really challenging first play for newcomers.
Can anyone comment on how this plays at 2? My wife and I are interested, but I know historically their games have played better at higher counts. Either way, looks great!
I find this one is great at 2p. Similar to Paladins of the West Kingdom any player count is good, but more players is more downtime. There's some advantages to more players, but I imagine I'll be playing this one most at 2.
@@DTChrisYi that’s super helpful, thanks! I think we have a similar gaming preference to you and Wendy so would you prefer this or Carnegie if you have to choose one?
@@DTChrisYiummmm paladins is definitely not a good game with 4 lol, i usually never wanna play it with 3 unless the others really know the game
I kinda regret not backing this
Why you can get it cheaper at retail and free shipping if grouped with other items . Extras are a joke that were included with the ks
@@Slyfox1775 I want them silver coins
@@Slyfox1775Garphill doesn’t really do KS exclusives. They don’t really care where you buy the game, either. The only reason they start out selling them on KS is because fans want to buy them there and ask specifically to do so.
Garphill's Kickstarter usage is one of the fairest in the industry, which is why I tend to support their projects (I only back about 1-2 games a year on crowdfunding). They always put their games at a fair price. It probably does cost a bit more than you could get at retail if you do a bulk order to save on shipping, but the difference is small compared to what I've seen with other games. They also are quite up front about the fact that their retail product isn't different from their KS project.
@@frankndice The metal coins might be available through Garphill's webstore, and I know for certain that they will be available through Renegade's webstore (will be a few months, we're just going to press now).
I love reviews where the LOW score is an 8. Pretty much makes it an instant buy for me because I know I’ll align with at least one of the people. I knew I was gonna like this one since watching the playthroughs and reviews from the kickstarter campaign.
I Think the trilogy’s have also something to do with region. I presumeer the next Will be …of the East…
Can someone fill me in on the 'X, Y and Z, oh my' thing please. Is it something from American culture or something?
It’s from The Wizard of Oz.
czcams.com/video/-HrfbV16-FQ/video.html
High level overview- I’m pretty sure mike covered everything!
Not at all. I still don't know how and when I get these cards into my tableau, as well as when I get my workers back plus how to know which are mine, specifically. He didn't say either of these four things.
I think there's too much randomness. You can't build a strategy around cards, because they might not come out. It's difficult or even impossible to cycle cards. The bonuses when tying land/seas together are very hit and miss. There's too much else to worry about than if these cards bonuses line up. If they do, great for you. If not, hope your opponent's doesn't either. Inspiration cards can also be completely irrelevant to you, but may add 10 to 20% to an opponent's point total. Also, I think the possible points to get are not well thought out. I feel that the space cards are too hard to get and worth too few points, limiting the options for the players. I love the tableau building, dice management, and theme of this game. I just think it needs better point balance, and has a worse card drafting strategy than Ark Nova.
Why has Tom never reviewed Hadrian's Wall?
Because I have. :)
@@thedicetower Holy smokes. I never saw that! I knew mike did, but I never knew you played it.
PWK never really clicked for me, too mechanical and not enough theme.
So far I'm thinking about skipping the South Tigris trilogy.
If theme is the biggest factor, then you're probably right to do so. The theme works, but these are definitely very mechanics-driven games. You have to like Euros. That said, I would necessarily write off an entire trilogy based on one game. All of the games even within a given trilogy are very different.
@@TheEternal792 I do like eurogames. But I like my euros to bring out their theme and not to feel completely mechanical.
I agree, Euro says nothing about the theme.
You can have an Euro that feels like fighting an epidemic or building a trade imperium in ancient rome. And then you can have one that plays like Abalone or Blokus and that are the vibes I get from this.
Thanks for the review. Looks like another one to avoid. Giant table hog play alone together euro.
I own enough of those I'm good.
Paladins is my least favorite, but I didn’t get the sense that this was similar, except maybe the complexity.
Why Tom hate this game?
Man, this could've been so immersive with exploring the land and mapping the stars but this appears to be just another symbol and point salad.
Beautiful cards but very ugly board
You may wanna consider changing the opening music... Too annoying.
Don't watch it then lol
@@joshjenson8111 I'm still interested in the content.
game sucks, boring and confusing with too many symbols
Sigh... another multiplayer solitaire gets 9/10, what else is new?
I think you and I have different definitions of multiplayer solitaire
It has interaction: influence tiles, the track, taking workers or cards my opponent wants to have 🤣
Not multiplayer solitaire. Taking and using workers provided by other players. Putting influence.on cards so other people have to pay when placing or taking workers on it or buying the card.
Very competitive on some cards for getting them before someone else can. Especially for collecting symbols but mostly the end game scoring space cards.
Kind of getting tired of the very samey looking iconography…feels like we are playing the 23rd version of the same game
I can see why you’d think that but I honestly view that as a strength rather a weakness. Sure it may feel like the games blend together but by keeping the iconography consistent across the different games it makes it easier to go from one game to the next. Whether that’s simply trying to play two of the games back to back or trying to teach one of the games to someone whose played one of the others previously.
The game looks terrible, the look and rules are the reason why casual gamers do not want to hear about the hobby, new games, bgg etc.
Imho the cards are absolutely beautiful, but the board with the big track looks hideous, I give you that. It's one big beige mess. Kinda reminds me of Newton haha.
The artwork in this game is disturbingly bizzare, why do all the warriors look like women? Isn't this supposed to be set during the Abbasid Caliphate?