K3 Rants: How Modern Kirby is Misunderstood
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2022
- Kirby is one of the most beloved Nintendo series. But some of its recent installments have had some... interesting criticism and misconceptions. So today, I give my defense for Kirby's modern mainline games. And explain why they're so misunderstood.
𝗦𝗽𝗲𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗹 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗸𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝘃𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗼'𝘀 𝗴𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁, 𝗣𝗹𝗮𝘁. 𝗣𝗹𝗲𝗮𝘀𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝘀𝗼𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗹 𝗺𝗲𝗱𝗶𝗮 𝗯𝗲𝗹𝗼𝘄!
/ plattttttinum
𝗕𝗲𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗳𝗲𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲𝘀 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗱𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀 𝗜 𝘂𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗵𝗲𝗹𝗽 𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘃𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗼.
Kirby Gameplay Used From:
• Kirby's Return to Drea...
• Evolution Of Whispy Wo...
• Kirby Star Allies - Al...
• Kirby Star Allies - Al...
• Kirby: Triple Deluxe -...
• Kirby Star Allies - Al...
Gameplay Credit goes to NintenU, aWiibo, Zephiel810, and ProsafiaGaming
Thumbnail Art From:
• Shinya Kumazaki, Kirby...
And yes, I referenced Spongebob twice lel.
𝗠𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗰 𝗨𝘀𝗲𝗱:
Kirby 64 - File Select Theme
Sonic Unleashed - Rooftop Run Night
Kirby's Adventure - Vegetable Valley (Stage)
Kirby's Return to Dream Land - Volcano Area
Kirby Star Allies - King Dedede's Castle
Kirby's Return to Dream Land - Dangerous Dinner
Kirby's Return to Dream Land - Under My Control (Vs. Magolor)
Kirby Planet Robobot - City of Sound (City Area)
Kirby Star Allies - Planet Earthfall
Kirby and the Forgotten Land - A Trip to Alivel Mall
Outro Music - BKNAPP - All Star v2 (All-Star Rest Area Remix)
• BKNAPP - All Star V2
All elements of the video related to Kirby belong to HAL Laboratory, Nintendo, and other respective right holders.
All assets used go to their perspective owners and if there are any issues, feel free to message me. I own nothing except my own voice and name. And it's also worth noting that, as of now, my videos aren't monetized. So I'm not making any profit off of all this.
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"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use" - Hry
All references & outside sources are credited in the description. And fully transcripted Closed Captions are up and ready to go too.
Before anyone leaves a comment... please keep in mind. This is just MY perspective on the misconceptions with Modern Kirby. I didn't make this video to gatekeep more casual fans of the series out. Nor to be all "Um... ACTUALLY-". I just want Modern Kirby to stop being misinterpreted in these ways. Also, one area I didn't cover was how HAL is a bit of a separate entity from Nintendo. It's why Kirby does things better than some of the more core Nintendo series. So Kumazaki AND HAL as an individual team deserve respect for their work on this series. Anyway... Enjoy the vid.
The Kirby series is now my number one game series after forgotten land and I will say that playing it with my younger sibling that loves Kirby now, I will say this is pretty nice to see. I will say triple deluxe and planet robobot is a prefect game. Star allies, I loved playing it but when we got the new characters over time, I enjoyed it(I don’t like getting them after they released so yeah) and forgotten land is the first Kirby game that I 100% completed with my 4 year old sister. Also be honest, you rather fight gods as Kirby or press on a switch to defeat a boss as Mario
People who think Kumazaki should be fired are either delusional, or Kirby haters attempting to hide behind a faulty disguise.
Kumazaki is the best thing that happened to the series lmao
Yeah that's pretty stupid honestly, some people are just stupid
Those people are definitely fatherless.
Where are people saying that?
@@Hamantha It was said during the video, not in the comments. Can't remember the time stamp because it's been over a month but I think it was rather early on, within the first 4 minutes or so, but I could be wrong.
"but star allies doesn't bring anything new"
Yeah, the same way infinity war didn't introduced a new character/comic. CAUSE THATS NOT THE FREAKING POINT!!!
Even star allies did bring something new even if its fanservice is a bit much to newcomers unlike how triple deluxe and planet robobot handled it more subtly and expertly. Star allies introduced hyness, mage sisters, void and morpho and morpho was in the line of more cool subtle making old into new type of reference you see from the 3ds games.
Its a celebration. It isnt supposed to bring anything new to the table. Now i havent played the game but this would make sense to me.
Star Allies brought PLENTY new to the series and does a lot of things uniquely.
I hated and still kinda hate Star Allies, but honestly the problem isn't it being bad or too easy or not bringing anything new.
It's the friend mechanic which is fucking shit and annoying in single-player, so for many people you have to play with 4 friends to be able to enjoy it. THAT'S what ruined Star Allies for so many people; they're trying to play a co-op game in single-player. (And it isn't even their fault.)
I'm honestly surprised it has apologists who don't actually realize the real reason people hated it cause that means they played it in single-player and enjoyed it.
I should not judge too much, but you gotta have something off about ya to not find this game annoying in single-player.
@@tripletsborn4628 I mean I just dismissed the friends and when I needed them, there was always a respawning enemy right next to whenever they were mandatory
I want to add something actually important. If all content was in the game was there from the start we wouldn’t have Heroes in another dimension.
Because heroes in another dimension was actually designed from criticism of the game being to easy.
They listen to criticism which is an important and good thing. If the devs didn’t put that kind of soul into the Kirby games they wouldn’t be such an fun series.
But yes. Content after a game release isn’t good in all other case in that I do agree. Just this one thing with Heroes in another dimension I wanted to add
I dont think so... No one ever said hiad came from criticisms, in fact, the guest star floors built up to it, the kirby twitter lead up to it from the very release (with cryptic posts written by the mages about hyness trying to open a strange portal) and even shinya hinted it in an interview "after the mages and hyness get kicked out of void termina hyness flew with the mages out of the dimension, what happens after that? Something something maybe youll find out"
Hell, the game was missing extra bosses and an actual extra final boss with proper new content, there was no way they were going to leave it at that
Plus PLUS hyness' gibberish needed another language reveal pause screen to be fully translated and understood, which hiad gave us, and the lor reveal, too
Yeah theres a ton more points i can make here but you get it i think
thanks for making space between the sentences (not sarcastic)
Heroes in Another Dimension wasn't built from criticism. It was teased from the very start, from launch to the final update.
@@harrybest2041 It was literally stated in an interview that HiAD was not planned and Wave 3 was originally only going to add a single extra level to the story mode
Perhaps the funny thing about it is that, despite much talk of Sakurai and Kumazaki's Kirby games, it is always left that there is a group of Kirby games that are considered black sheep and have fallen into a much worse category than Kirby Star Allies: ending up being forgotten and unknown Kirby games by many.
That's right, I'm talking about Shimomura's Kirby games: Kirby Dream Land 2, Kirby Dream Land 3, and Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards. Despite being quite unique games in art style and mechanics, they ended up being games that people barely mention and failed to achieve cult title status in their time (like Kirby's Adventure and Kirby Super Star)
And well, unlike Sakurai, Kumazaki is to be thanked for not making a "clean slate" plan with the Kirby games.
Shimomura's Kirby games are not highly praised, they are almost forgotten and, to many, they do not appear to be Kirby games. Likewise, Amazing Mirror and Squeak Squad had their share of criticism at the time: the former game being too confusing and messy. The second game being considered by many people, before Star Allies, as the most hated and easiest game in the franchise (it was this game that started the meme trend "Kirby gets his cake stolen and then he goes to kill a God")
What Kumazaki did was use all those elements and universe that Sakurai and Shimomura had created, and try to organize it to make it fit into a consistent lore.
Return to Dreamland: Basically, that game is the modern Kirby's Adventure. You have elements of Sakurai in there: the villain is a wizard who tricks Kirby into gaining unlimited power (like Marx). However, that game was the one that sowed the seeds to be able to connect several key elements from previous games in a single story.
Triple Deluxe: This game came out almost in the anniversary year of Kirby & The Amazing Mirror. Therefore, it was decided to bring back various elements from that game in order to tell a tragic story about the new characters introduced in that game. Triple Deluxe basically reintroduced Amazing Mirror to the lore.
Planet Robobot: This game came out right in Kirby Super Star's anniversary year. As I mentioned before, it looks like they took a lot of elements from Super Star for this game (the main villain is even a Nova of all things). While Return to Dreamland already gave you the idea that there is something deep in the lore, Planet Robobot basically confirms it: there is a hidden lore that links all the stories of the Kirby games.
Star Allies: This game came out just in the anniversary year of Kirby Dreamland 3. It can be said that this game had the most difficult task of all in relation to lore: reintroducing Shimomura's Kirby games. Not for nothing Star Allies has one of the darkest themes of all Kirby games: religion, cults and dark rituals (so much so that it had to be censored in the West). Obviously, Star Allies has notable references to Dreamland 3 (even a Star Allies boss is a Dreamland 3 boss). In fact, this game will be remembered for giving a much darker meaning to a recurring character from the Kirby saga that has been around for a long time: Butterfly.
Well, that was a pretty long comment, but I'm almost done. The last thing that remains to be said is that the constant overvaluation and overexposure of Kirby Super Star has made me start to hate that game. Yes, it's a good game turned classic, but it shouldn't be considered a standard for the direction Kirby should take (or what is considered a good game). In hindsight, Super Star is pretty basic and its remake, Super Star Ultra, I consider a much better game (too bad, for many, Super Star is considered a superior game to Super Star Ultra just for nostalgia)
Ultra is amazing. My first kirby game. Got introduced to the main cast and then it got hard as heck for 10 year old me and I loved hard games when I was young. Super star doesnt ever get really cool. It stays cute throughout. Ultra has so many cool moments and the first and hardest true arena.
@@AndroidHarris also my first Kirby game, easily a massive improvement from Super Star.
Shimomura is one of my favorite kirby game devs. I had no idea his games are still not talked about a lot
Wait, there's people who think Super Star is better than Super Star Ultra? KSSU is literally KSS but even bigger! I could understand if something about the remake made it less fun like radically downgraded level designs or a plethora of performance issues but I've seen no such thing in all my many, many hours sunk into KSSU!
I’m sad that the Dark Matter saga was overlooked.
Those games aren’t the same but they share a very similar foundation. RTDL foundations with swapped gimmicks and Star Allies isn’t horrible but it is lack luster with its main game and I completely understand ppl not being into it.
Indeed
Judging Kirby Star Allies based off of Story Mode is like judging Kirby Super Star Ultra off of Spring Breeze. Kirby Star Allies is a lot more than that, and the best parts come a lot later in the game, which some people sadly decide not to experience.
People say kumazaki should be fired???
I went into a laughing fit hearing that.
First time I've heard non-fans be like that concerning kumazaki. Normally I see people disregarding his existence and thinking every game was made by Sakurai rather than slamming on kumazaki's directorial abilities (for no reason even! If kumazaki really was a bad director the series would've never recovered from the GCN Era game "drought" as well as it has)
No one has said this lmao and it's not gonna happen. Kumazaki fans just have the biggest victim complex for the guy.
@@MegaKirbySuperstar Hey now, let’s not go making generalizations like that, please? I know you don’t like Kumazaki and his titles nearly as much as you like Sakurai/Shimomura and the classic titles, and that’s totally OK. But making these kinds of generalizations about people is a pretty rude thing to do.
The Kirby series would go haywire if that happened honestly
@@FedoraKirb I love Shinya Kumazaki. Why do you guys continue to love making shit up lmao. I own all his games. I just don't make up crap about directors to start drama online. No one in the fandom hates Shinya Kumazaki at all. Rude is making shit up
I would personally argue that I LIKED the way the updates were handled in Star Allies. Though the game was very easy at first, I really wouldn't call it bare bones. I really enjoyed how they brought back the allies mechanic from Super Star, and I loved that Meta Knight, Dedede and Bandana Waddle Dee were all playable once again. The main game was admittedly easy, but when you get to Star Allies' version of the extra mode, you're given the option to play through a harder version, using ANY character of your choice, where as in most games prior, you were locked into using just Meta Knight, or just Dedede. The small differences made a big deal, too, and even at the very beginning, Star Allies' version of The Arena was one of the most in depth version in the series, even now that Forgotten Land is out. I would really argue that there was no short amount of content in the base game, and that's why when they started adding ENTIRELY NEW PLAYABLE CHARACTERS from previous games in the series, it was like a passionate love letter to all the fans who supported them, giving me reason to time and time again return to the game to play through the extra modes with the new characters. Then they added an entirely new MODE, new bosses, and a new final boss with the BEST song in the entire Kirby series to date! I saw those updates as a continuous thank you that made an already great game rise beyond the rest into what I'll legitimately call one of the best games in the series. And that final new mode, and that ultimate boss rush that all leads up a unique final fight? I wouldn't call that easy by a long shot. By Kirby standards, in any case, it was HARD. Star Allies had SO many bosses in it, and it's Arena mode was LONG. And, all in all, the updates were FREE. Those were 4 FREE updates, adding new characters and new modes. Comparing that to Smash Ultimate's battle passes, it's a miracle that they didn't charge extra for ALL the bonus content they added. I absolutely adore Star Allies, and the updates were part of what made me like it so much. At least to me, they didn't just "fix a boring game", they took a great game and decided they wanted to make it damn near perfect. That's how I saw it, anyway.
I agree
I agree to you, you're so right!!!!!!
As one of the people who trashed on Star Allies (as a longtime fan at that) on release, it definitely grew to be a contender for my favorite Kirby game after the updates. Nothing wrong with games being easy but I just found nothing clever or stimulating about the base story mode levels. Thankfully Heroes in Another Dimension offered some of the best level design in years. Guest Star Mode and the Ultimate Choice offer a huge amount of replayability too. Even after Forgotten Land I can see myself revisiting Star Allies a lot more as I still haven't solo'd Soul Melter EX with every character. It's a hard game for me to sell to others but I feel people downplay the replay value so much.
On the topic of Whispy Woods being a bosa fight almost every game, I feel it's a trade off for Kirby being one of the few long running series to not even have a main villain and having a different villain every game. I don't see these gamers complaining about Bowser, Dr Eggman, and Dr Wily being the bad guys every single time (except in spin offs) and if they say "Well every fight with them is different" well, then they should agree all these Whispy fights are okay then.
As for the Sakurai point, yeah he was important to the foundation of Kirby and his gameplay but... and this is going to sound mean-spirited.. I think it was for the best he moved on. I can't help but get that feeling he was losing his touch with Kirby when I look at his last few Kirby related projects. Nightmare in Dream Land had all these baffling changes and he supervised the Kirby anime which was controversial for how questionable it was as an adaptation (it eventually got old enough for people who had it as their first exposure to Kirby to be nostalgic over it, but it soon got cancelled out with people coming in from Modern Kirby games). Air Ride is fun but it definitely lacked the Kirby personality compared to Mario Kart where all the race tracks screamed Mario. Kumazaki absolutely comprehends what made the Kirby games before his so appealing.
I practically made my own essay here but I overall agree with you guys and wanted to add on to points here and there. This was an absolutely cathartic video!
Thanks for your reception! And yeah, I'm no stranger to leaving long comments myself. So trust that I read all this lol.
Haven't watched the video yet but honestly I agree with you regarding the Sakurai thing, if only because I absolutely ADORE the direction that Kirby went with when Kumazaki took over, in terms of gameplay, themes, character designs, and lore.
@@knux333jw The Waddle Dee raises many good points. I, for one, (have just made a Roman numeral pun) loved Star Allies, especially the revelations, the lore, the returning playable heroes, the Artist ability, and the stroke of sheer genius that is the Heroes in Another Dimension mode.
That being said, I sometimes dabble in trying to dream up my own Kirby concepts, and my main focus is trying to make a game in the style of Star Allies, with level design akin to that of Kirby's Adventure Wii (that's what Return to Dream Land is called where I'm from) and a greater focus on platforming and higher difficulty. If anyone wants, I can give extra details!
@@themightygallium9509 Sounds absolutely dope dude
@@geschnitztekiste4111 If you want, I can give you a bit of insight!
"hm yes, 1 game is as not as good the others 3, the series must be dying"
thank you for this video I am tired of people saying "if you play one Kirby game you've played them all".
FANTASTIC video. I couldn’t agree more. I’m sorry, but I just CANNOT understand the people who say that Star Allies is the SONIC FORCES of the Kirby series. That feels so disingenuous to Star Allies and what it was trying to accomplish. Star Allies is WAY better than Forces could ever HOPE to be.
Kirby Star Allies vs. Sonic Forces.... like come on man... LOL.
it feels like kirby fans want their own Sonic 06 for some ungodly reason that's beyond me
Star Allies is actually PLAYABLE.
@@hideharu-xiii8852 And... it handles the "friends are my power" better than Forces
Don't get me wrong I love sakurai's work, but given how insanely biased he is towards the Kirby games he made shows he clearly does not respect the direction the series went, and neither does he respect kumazaki's work, he barely acknowledges it's existence, and when he does he does it poorly.
That's my only gripe with sakurai.
Same
I don't think Sakurai outright hates the Modern direction possibly. As we've seen photos of him hanging out with Kumazaki. And he even FINALLY acknowledged a Modern Kirby game with Forgotten Land. Knowing damn well it was too big to ignore. I truly think he just has a nostalgic bias towards his time with Kirby, but doesn't fully grasp how its hurting Modern Kirby. Could be wrong though, as I'm not a mind reader at the end of the day.
@@knux333jw I feel like him acknowledging forgotten land was something he needed to do, but not something he wanted to do.
He is being formal about it, but that's it, I doubt he would acknowledge forgotten land if it hadn't been so big.
It's him begrudgingly accepting that Kirby without him is doing amazing, and has been for the past few years, with a few hiccups here and there.
@@knux333jw how the hell is Sakurai hurting modern Kirby? Also no one knows his reasoning so it's all speculation
@@GuidingLightAngel your headcanon is bullshit and you don't know the man. I think it's fans who make this shit up even when he's said contrary in the past and goes against his perspective in interviews. You don't know what he really thinks and making this shit up about he being petty, begrudgingly accepting it, etc etc is mental fanfiction nonsense about a real human being and is annoying. You don't know the man and you never will know him. No one will ever have a closer connection to the very thing you all love then him. It's nonsense and I wish the fandom would stop its crappy kumazaki fanfiction in which Sakurai cries because ppl are continuing Kirby without him as if he didn't make the voluntary choice to let that happen himself and said publicly he's thrilled new developers want to work on him and that all he wants is for ppl to really like Kirby even tho he knows it's hard to compete with Mario.
There is no such thing as a bad Kirby game
Just mediocre ones
totally agree with this video, but something to bring up is that a lot of people don't even realize that nintendo or even sakurai don't work on on the modern games (nintendo only publishes it/funds it), its the dog eggs people! also i'd love to see your take on kirby and the forgotten land. big fan of it, although not the biggest fan of lore dumps, were we get all the story at the very, very end. also thanks for subtitles, i dunno why i like it so much, but its just way easier to follow along.
What does Sakurai do now? Does he supervise it?
@@dannieyebagsz nope he literally does nothing to it except promoting it on his twitter, the last kirby game he developed was air ride which is from 2003, and the amazing mirror (2004) which he was more of a supervisor. although i guess you could say he works on kirby in smash bros? but thats a stretch, however kirby is the starting character in world of light.
@@dannieyebagsz no but he has his own company (Sora limited) he still works on smash bros. but not kirby or any Nintendo franchise with tthe exception of smash and kid icruse
Yeah, that's an annoying common misconception
@@potato-kb7ld to be fair modern kirby tends to dump all its lore at the its not something only forgotten land does
I've heard about the NSMB comparisons and Star Allies complaints before but I've NEVER heard about wanting to fire Kumizaki. That's just... no.
What pisses me off about the 2D game argument is that people said the exact same shit about Metroid Dread.
Really? 2D games are my favorite tbh. Hollow Knight, Kirby, and Metroid are all up there.
@@AndroidHarris you heard about that Fiasco where people used Dread as a Excuse to Pirate games right? That's was caused by some people believing that "2D games shouldn't be 60 dollars"
@@ultrawinggaming9764 that's pretty crazy. I get 60 bucks can be expensive for any game but to be that biased in that way to say one deserves to be 60 and the other doesn't is really annoying tbh.
@@AndroidHarris Talking about the Rising prices of games and what could be done to keep game prices lower is one thing.
Dogging on one game for being 60 dollars in a series that hasn't had a Brand new Main series entry in 19 years, developed by a Company in Spain that only made it because they loved Metroid so much. Is ridiculous.
I've never heard any critisism about Metroid Dread.
I never heard many critisisms from the first three modern kirby games but everyone shits on star allies
Funnily enough, I believe I mainly got into the Modern Era of Kirby. Before I even knew Kirby was a game series, I was a fan of Kirby Right Back At Ya, watching it on POP, then later on watching nearly all the episodes on CZcams (which is one of my first ever uses for CZcams as a young kid). Due to this I was recommended TheRunawayGuy's LP of Kirby Return to Dreamland, where they were playing the snow world (Episode 5-6 but most likely 5) and became my first introduction to the channel (which I would later rediscover after becoming a Chuggaaconroy Fan) and Kirby as a game series (which I'm not sure my brain registered it as that or not yet at that point in time).
Still years later, I would try the Kirby Series through Kirby Super Star Ultra which I really enjoyed and I 100% complete that game (including Helper Arena with each Helper) I would also experience old Kirby games just through learning about them from outside sources.
But I wouldn't become a dedicated Kirby fan until Triple Deluxe, which was a purchase decision I was mulling over but ultimately got, and I had such a fun run with the game and didn't regret buying it (now thinking back I wonder if this was first and then I got Superstar Ultra... can't remember specific dates, but either way those were two key games in me becoming a Kirby fan).
Then I would later get Kirby Planet Robobot (which I enjoyed though was a bit mixed at the time, but A. my opinions on the game overtime grew more positive. B. I haven't played it a second time and need to do that at some point) and try out Kirby's Adventure which despite it's limitations is a solid game as well.
Now I haven't played far into Kirby Star Allies due to one problem. I've been trying to play this with a group of people, but I have rarely gotten far due to trying to get collectables, which caused arguments and slowing down the games pace, where I think I've only gotten to the Second World. Still I would like to try it out someday fully despite me knowing most of the story stuff behind the game. But I can see some of the problems people talk about with the game from the first world (I mainly think this is due to the loss of the background levels which made level design more fun in games like Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot).
Either way with Kirby and the Forgotten Land, I had a lot of fun with the first game into 3D (aside from stuff like Kirby's 3D Rumble/Blowout Blast), and apart from the disappointment with limited abilities with no pause descriptions, and the pain that is the ??? Waddle Dee Missions (Just Give Me The Mission so I Don't Have To Replay The Level Again) among minor things, the game is really fun, being a blast to playthough to 100%. Plus they did a fun job with remaking most of the bosses in the post-game (Phantom Tropical Woods having my favourite new phase).
All this to say, I personally overall don't have a problem with Modern Kirby. I really enjoy the series and love the direction it's going in and hope to see more 2D/3D Kirby games, with references to all the old Kirby games. Personally with more returning characters so their stories can continue past their original game and be used in more unique ways in the newer games, similar to how they use King Dedede, Meta Knight etc. as key story plot beats (though hopefully not always using the mind control thing that they like to use regularly).
Even though I do have my gripes with Star Allies, I can confidently say that it's nowhere near the level of "same game 100th time" as New Super Mario Bros is. RTDL, TDX and PR all had unique aesthetics from each other, and introduced completely different gimmicks that really made each game feel like its own.
I could write essays about my opinions of KSA, but it was the only game of the modern series to really strike controversy. People that choose to write the rest of the modern era off as "all the same" have clearly never played them before, and are uninterested in doing so. One "meh" game doesn't invalidate its predecessors.
And now we have Forgotten Land, and the game is being praised everywhere :')
@@enti People just then say that forgotten land is the only good one while the rest are still considered same
As someone who's interested in the lore of Kirby, especially the 3DS ones, because they're the ones that I have played; I really hate the argument that, "All the 3DS Kirby games seem the same", or "Kirby is just for children, even more so than Mario". The lore and story, that admittedly had to be learned via Miiverse, are insanely tragic. Taranza gave a gift to his love causing her to spiral into becoming a trynical, beauty-obsessed queen that little resembled her previous self, in both her mind and soul. He eventually realises that he had to help Kirby stop her reign, saying goodbye to the one that he loved. Deep, but personally I prefer Planet Robobot's story. Suzie is the daughter of President Haltsman lost long ago in a tragic accident. She eventually managed to get back, but when she returned she found a man who could not recognise her, but she was hired as his Secretary, as a small part of him appreciated her. The reason for this was as her expanded his company, he needed help from Star Dream, and he used it to expand his company. As a cost, Star Dream took parts of his soul, resulting in him losing the memory of his long-lost daughter and the only reason he grew his company in the first place. By the final boss, Star Dream fully absorbs his soul and Haltsman dies along with his machine. In the True Arena, as you defeat Star Dream Soul OS, you can hear Haltsman's distorted screams of pain. Now try calling a 3DS Kirby game, "childish" ever again.
As a TLDR, the 3DS Kirby games tell some of the most moving stories in the Nintendo Canon, and it is a shame that they are summarised as "childish, not unique, and easy".
The franchise is still entry level and aimed at beginners so its still for kids even with the lore. No offense but nothing in a Kirby game is beyond a child grasping or enjoying. Old fairy tales also have aspects that are considered "fucked up" or Dark with character's parents dying or murder etc. Doesn't mean Snow White is adult and mature all of a sudden. Just means it's okay that kids aren't always told everything is saccharine and fine about their world either.
Also Star Allies has a cult summoning a god of destruction
Actually, Haltmann didn't just use Star Dream to advance his company. He used it so much because he thought that he accidentally killed Susie, and was trying to use its immense power to bring her back. Eventually, it took control of him and he started using it to gain profits.
Honestly, part of me thinks Star Allies got so much hate because we Kirby fans are spoiled by a series that's JUST THAT GOOD. Like, fans of other franchises would be BEGGING for a game with the amount of heart as Star Allies, even with the arguable flaws and all. lol
That’s what I’ve been saying!
As a long time Kirby fan, I've definitely had my "Kirby was never good" episode after Star Allies left me super underwhelmed, and it took me until... actually last week for it to grow on me and just appreciate how it celebrates the series: even if it is a very shallow game, it was still made out of love for Kirby.
I am now at a point where it's not worth being angry over that anynore. Being critical of the things we love is a good thing, and I think the Kirby fandom could use some of that, but without tearing each other apart, or even specific games apart.
After all: there are no bad Kirby games.
I wouldn't even say that the game is shallow. It arguably offers the most content and replay value of any game in the series, at least in the postgame with the Dream Friends and their unique movesets and levels, not to mention how it has the most amount of copy abilities along with being able to play as the Helpers as well (though you can still play as the Helpers and Dream Friends in the main campaign via piggyback). To my knowledge the game also has the biggest soundtrack in the series as well, even if a lot of it consists of reused tracks from earlier games. The only problems are the main campaign having more basic limited level design due to the focus on multiplayer, the general easier difficulty in puzzles and most bosses, and the main gimmick not being as accessible as the Robobot armor was. They still are understandable complaints to make with the first one definitely being important though; it is the main campaign after all.
I'm glad that forgotten land was such a blast and people are more focused on talking about it than still fighting for previous games :')
Return to Dream Land was the game that turned me from a casual Kirby fan into a massive one, something that Super Star didn't even manage to do (as great as it is).
Let's just say... Uncle Al's Modern Kirby video did more damage than good
Arlo's video on Star Allies as well
I don't really have anything to say on the repetitiveness or Kumazaki stuff, but there's a heck of a whole lot about Star Allies so this is probably gonna be long.
In a nutshell, it's my favourite Kirby game and I hate its reception.
I won't deny the game has flaws like the ones you mentioned, plus a lack of originality in level themes and bosses, if we exclude the Jambastion crew, and I agree on the update approach being bad (although after reading some comments here it seems like HiAD was made as a result of that, interesting). But Jesus Christ, the complaints are way overblown.
What I hate about the reception is more specifically the inside contribution. You said Star Allies was a love letter to the series as the biggest point in its favor... And that's precisely the thing: even among the fanbase it gets constantly boiled down to that, just a bunch of fanservice as the only noteworthy aspect of the game. As someone who likes it for other reasons before the fanservice, that drives me furious.
Your video was one of the very few instances I've seen of someone bringing up the variety in the normal abilities, both amount and movesets. Now, since Return to Dreamland, the movesets started growing on me and by Robobot they had already become my favourite aspect of modern Kirby, and Star Allies was the peak of that: the highest amount of abilities of all the 4 games, with each one having either friend attacks or entire elemental variations to further add to the already huge arsenal. And on top of that, Guest Star gave each and every one of those movesets a chance to shine in a way the Arenas didn't, as there's abilities that are better at dealing with regular enemies than bosses (Ice, Suplex etc), and ones with moves that use stage elements (Fire, Ninja, Cutter etc), all in a whole mode worth of replay value.
This is something that was true from the start, something Star Allies has not only over Forgotten Land, but over every other game in the series. Something the game deserves credit for.
In all honesty, I couldn't care less about HiAD nor Soul Melter EX. Every time I start a new file, I just want to complete them as quickly as possible and then go back to the Guest Star runs. However, I still think they're a good addition to the game and a good answer to its difficulty issues.
All of that? Dismissed. Downplayed. Ignored. I've seen Star Allies being called a sacrificial lamb made to test if the update structure would work (which it didn't), and I would like to add an animal relative: a scapegoat. A scapegoat to be blamed for everything stale about the RtD formula, which is ironic considering SA is the least formulaic of the quartet. Meanwhile, they'll praise Robobot like the apex of creativity when that game has the same formula as Triple Deluxe and is just as bad as Star Allies if not more on the reusing bosses department. At this point, it feels less like the fanbase doesn't know about those aspects and more like they're actively trying to find excuses not to give Star Allies any credit outside of the fanservice.
The fanservice part of the game only really attracts me on 2 cases, Magolor and Dark Meta Knight. With the latter, Amazing Mirror was my first Kirby game, I adore how its non-linear world was recreated in a linear entry, and those stage recreations are my favourite of the bunch. But with the former...
Ever since Return to Dreamland's ending, I wanted nothing more than to have Magolor back and reformed. I was ecstatic when I saw Dream Collection did just that and added some of the older games to the mix... Only to be destroyed once I realized it wouldn't be released here in Europe.
Then the Star Allies DLC wave 1 was announced, and my hopes were reignited. I knew it was only a matter of time before I would finally have the egg wizard back after 7 years of waiting. And boy, he did not disappoint: a god-tier moveset, amazing stage recreations down to the dimensional rift sections, and a Morpho Knight medley that's currently my favourite song in the entire series.
Imagine all of that. Imagine finally getting a game you've waited for so long, only to see it get bombared with a crapton of hate, have most of its merits ignored, all from a fanbase that was never this aggressive towards the series, and to have it be the first subject for a developing method that would fail and make said subject the poster child of disliking the DLC approach.
All in the one game that's everything you could've asked for.
*IT DRIVES ME SO FUCKING FURIOUS.*
And the Forgotten Land videos that have been coming out since its announcement? You can't go under one without at least one comment along the lines of "Star Allies bad Forgotten Land good", "Finally a GOOD Kirby game on the Switch", yadda yadda.
I hate this. I hate all of this. I will never forgive the devs at Nintendo/HAL nor the fanbase for this.
The real letdown was not Star Allies, but its reception, and that's a hill I will die on, no matter how small it may be.
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Ok, rant over. Looking back, it ended up a big wall of text, but it's all things I wanted to get off my chest.
YES! This is the SA praise we need. SA is also my favorite kirby game for nearly ever reason you stated. While people may say it's an extremely easy kirby game, I actually love its difficulty because it greatly accentuates the movesets in the game. It's so much fun to play this game and especially as a dream friend because you can really feel just how powerful these characters are, every dream friend has intricate movesets that are so destructive and demonstrate that kirby's friends are just as capable as he is. This game makes you truly feel powerful in the best of ways because you're literally playing as bosses from past games who deserve to be presented as such, BIG AND MIGHTY, ABLE TO TAKE ON ANYTHING.
I can’t tell you how perfect and refreshing this video is to me. I always wanted to do a rant like this but I think you pin point all the things I would of wanted to say. I feel like the discourse of the series only happened when Star Allies came out. Now it isn’t a perfect game but it was an amazing celebration to the series to me, pretty much a final swan song to the 2D Kirby games before going into a new 3D direction (and I even had this mindset before the announcement of Forgotten Land since I know for a fact they would do something for a 3D game afterwards for how much of a finale Star Allies felt).
THIS. Modern Kirby is very misunderstood.
Also, I highly agree with the whole thing about the "nostalgia pandering" argument and how the series actually pays attention to ALL of the previous games instead of a select few. It references past games, sure, but it never really references THE EXACT SAME THING from THE EXACT SAME POOL OF GAMES. If anything, the closest thing Kirby has to nostalgia pandering is what Sakurai's doing to the series in Smash by using the same four games over and over again.
Constantly referencing past works is still pandering to nostalgia. Even if it’s varied.
@@MegaKirbySuperstar That's a fair point. I just think, to my knowledge, most people tend to react better if it doesn't feel like some get special treatment over others. Just the vibe I get. Like for example Sonic Generations and Sonic Mania have a lot of nostalgia, but I don't see many bothered by it, and I personally believe that's because it's varied. Meanwhile people tend to really dislike the way nostalgia is handled in other 2010's Sonic games.
Here's how I see it. I think Generations handles nostalgia well in that it treats the content its referencing with respect. Giving old content amazing HD upgrades, not making fun of games like 06 but improving on them, etc.
But where it faults is that it doesn't really integrate the nostalgia well with the present. Sonic and his friends through the years are there... but they're handled like trash. Old locations are there... but there's very little new stuff to Generations' own identity. And the only reason this game's story happens is due to contrived time travel bs. And don't get me started on Mania... Where the nostalgia is mostly focused on the Classic Era, they tried to keep that Era retained in a dimensional bubble, and you only get 4 new zones. We're simply going to old locations because its clear the game just exists to please a specific crowd. And folks who think that Era is the only one with value.
Where Kirby does nostalgia better is that the reason him referencing the past isn't nostalgia bait is because they use old elements in great ways. We see old locals, items, and such yeah... but they don't try to use them to overshadow the new locations. We see ALL of Kirby's friends back and more. And not only is their development natural and organic feeling, it's treated with respect like the other references. And they don't use time travel or Era based dimension crap to gate off the nostalgia. Plus we get new characters and unique elements like everything with the Mages, Hyness, etc.
Bringing back old characters as playable and with new movesets to show their development is NOT nostalgia bait. That's natural storytelling progression for the universe. It'd be like saying a movie bringing back its main cast in the sequel is nostalgia bait. Absolutely stupid mindset.
What's nostalgia bait is CONSTANTLY going back to Green Hill Zone because they feel like its the only location people care about. Going back even if it makes zero story sense to be there.
With Kirby, we just spend a lot time on Popstar itself because um... it's the freaking main location? An entire planet? Green Hill is such a small piece of the entire Sonic universe.
Anyway... that's how I feel. Long comment, but you get my point...
@@MegaKirbySuperstar There is a difference between referencing in honor and respect, and referencing for pandering.
Even back to NID on the NES. Kirby was referencing it's older games (The black and white modified version of Kirby's Adventure's first level anyone?)
It's something Kirby has done since it's earliest sequels. It isn't about Nostalgia Pandering. It's about respecting what came before you to make what you are now.
As an example, Green greens isn’t overplayed like green hill zone and its derivatives in Sonic are. Instead, each game has its own unique themes, and world themes are fairly loose and usually branch off slightly from these themes by the second level in each world.
Yes, Kirby does have a few recurring tropes, but it's fine because those tropes are freaking awesome. Same can't be said about Mario.
My only real problems with Kirby Star Allies are the reused assets in Star Flung Heroes and Heroes in Another Dimension and that I sometimes lose track of where I am on the screen. Apart from that? Great game. (Oh, and Dedede looks awful. Why is he so angry? Sorry, it's been awhile since I played the game)
Wha? Kumazaki is the best thing that happened to Kirby since Shinomura! Forgotten Land is my favorite game, right now! My only problem with it is that the Lore figures are luck based! None of my favorite Kirby games are pre-Kumazaki. The stories, the lore, Dedede's redemption arc; I love all of it!
Who ever said Kumazaki is a bad director?
Probably UncleAl
For star allies I would say 50% of it sucks and 50% of it is insane and surpasses other past kirby games.
4-14-22
Kirby isn't supposed to be revolutionary, it's supposed to be fun. If you have fun with it, it has done its job. Why reinvent the wheel when you could just as easily use a formula and get it done quicker? Anyways, thinking Star Allies is too easy ignores that Kirby Games are made to be easier. And people thinking it's "nostalgia baiting" with including a possessed King Dedede or bringing a new variant of Whispy Woods totally ignores that Kirby respects its past, which shouldn't be revolutionary.
And people thinking that Masahiro Sakurai is all perfect ignore that Sakurai tends to play things a bit too safe. Kirby needs room to grow, but Sakurai plays things way too safe. He hasn't included a new Fighter from Kirby since King Dedede. There is way too much room for Kirby to grow, yet Sakurai would play things too safe. People who criticize Shinwa Kumazaki don't realize that he was the creative director behind games like Kirby Super Star Ultra. If you like Super Star Ultra and then decide to say that Kumazaki is a bad director and you just want Sakurai back really feels kind of hypocritical, if you ask me.
Anyways, Kirby Star Allies was made, not to be a revolutionary new game, but instead a celebration of what Kirby has become from what Kirby was. It's a celebration of Kirby, referencing pieces from almost ALL games and even the Anime. In the Bad Boss Brothers Celebration Picture, you can see almost Every Final Boss from almost Every Kirby Game up to that Point except for King D-Mind. You can even see some of the Bosses from the Spinoffs, like Gryll from Star Stacker, Drawcia from Canvas Curse, Necrodeus from Mass Attack, even Yin-Yarn from Epic Yarn, a game not even developed by HAL. They brought back Pon and Con, Kirby's 6 Animal Friends (Chuchu, Nago, Pitch, Rick, Kine, and Coo), Gooey, Marx, Adeleine and Ribbon, Dark Meta Knight, Daroach, Magolor, Taranza, Susie, and so many more. And, instead of feeling like simple pandering, you can see that each character's moveset feels like it fits the character.
Also, not releasing it as a full package allowed them to keep the hype alive. If you just release a full game all at once, it lives in people's Minds for less time than if you release it piecemeal. Also, it allows them to figure out what people want and allows them to perfect things. They can make it perfectly how they want it, but still get it out.
Lovely video, I couldn't agree more. Kirby is a dear series to me, and seeing so many misconceptions during the arguments online about the state of the games just makes my blood boil. It's alright if someone thinks that Kirby is a medicore or even a bad game series, since it 's their opinion, but if people are hating on the modern directors , titles etc for the wrong reasons, that would just be stupid. Some debators should take a step back and properly research the material.
Ikr
Forgotten Land came out and I swear most people just wiped their brains of all the games that came before it. The whole “Kirby was never good outside of Super Star” is just so wrong. I don’t plan on going on a tangent, but I feel like the general Nintendo fan has gotten super ignorant recently.
I agree with you. I'm sick and tired of people barely paying any attention to something and then they're like "Okay, this sucks", and most of the time, it actually tends to be something really good. The same can apply to when people barely pay any attention to something and then they're like "This is amazing", yet most of the time, it actually tends to be horrible. An example of this is when I made an article that reviewed a Roblox game that received mixed reception by players, and my reward was for some CZcamsr that was popular within the game's community to completely bash my opinion by making a video harassing my article review, which alarmed a lot of people in the community. All I did was to simply just try to express my opinion and to criticize the game to help it improve, and now, I'm one of the most hated people in the community all because of my opinion and criticism.
My point is that I'm just sick and tired of people not respecting other people's opinions and making a big fuss about it, and I'm also sick of how people like me are sometimes PUNISHED for trying to pay attention to something and to try to analyze it.
I always thought that All of Mario and Kirby games were good, since I never heard anyone talk negatively about them at least compared to Sonic anyway lol. First time hearing a divisive Kirby Game. Also great video, Knux!
Thank you very much for watching! And yeah, any series that runs as long as series like Sonic and Kirby are just inevitable to have games that are split among folks.
@@knux333jw that's true I really like squeak squad which is considered by most to be one of the most lacking before star allies and I didn't like epic yarn as much but lots of people love that game. Kirby because he experiments so much with not only the 2D games but also spinoffs makes his series more divisive when it comes to what people like about his games. They are all good but it mostly depends on your tastes which games you like more than others tbh
Kirby games are pink ball kills gods why would someone have a negative opinion on it
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Nah
I can’t watch this at the moment but will later! I really hate the misunderstanding too, and I wanna see RETRIBUTION!!!
This video was amazing and I agree with everything you said, half the people making these stupid misconceptions have never played a Kirby game ever.
I'm glad you made this video, someone had to do this.
Just because Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot are similar to Return to Dreamland, it doesn't mean they are the same game, TD and ESPECIALLY PR have mad different game mechanics and mad depressing stories along with fun and interesting characters and unique bosses. People were looking at the games at the surface, the 2D platformer thing was getting repetitive but they were diverse and fleshed out if we look deeper, heck, we didn't even need to look so deep.
I mean Whispy being a boss all the time is kind of iconic at this point and shouldn't be used against the franchise.
As for Star Allies, I totally agree honestly how the heck do people think it's bad, it's fun. It's wasn't heavily lacking in content. But it was easy as heck and kind of short, those are the only problems I had.
Getting to play as characters like Gooey, Adeliene, and enimies like Poppy Bros, Vivi and Bio Spark again, it's so much fun, its beautiful and the fanservise was amazing. The game was never bad, even before the DLC. I mean Star Allies was a bit dumb in term of gameplay and CPUs and *MARX* but like, lots of games, SPECIFICALLY Nintendo games are easy the wide variety of content (even at base) nearly makes up for it and "its easy" it very reused, especially in the Kirby franchise.
I mean like, I can't deny it was lacking, but I still believe the fans were a bit harsh, also Kirby isn't the only series to do the free content update stuff. (ANIMAL CROSSING).
Finally, Anyone who thinks Kumazaki should be fired is just mean-spirited and negatively nostalgic. Sakurai was a great director but he has so little to do with the franchise now and has a slight bias towards his era of Kirby, the games would just end up like classic Kirby in HD. And we'd likely lose modern fan-favorites because there are so many characters to work with. Also Sakurai's Kirby representation in Smash is abysmal and clearly biased and that has to freaking change.
I also agree that SSU was better than super star, the only thing I believe was a downgrade was the commentary in revenge of Meta Knight, beside that, SSU is the better game in my opinion.
A lot of people making these misconceptions need to do their research and I'm gIad that this video is here to clear it up
(That was an unnecessary summary.)
I only think Kirby is too easy, but if you think that then just do: no friends, minimum floats and no copy abilities.
True arena will solve that thought process
As a Kirby fan since childhood, i couldn't put anything better here, Rtdl will always be one of my favorite games ever since it got me into Kirby after i meet him from smash bros, and is just magical to see how modern games have so much to offer, forgotten land is AMAZING and this is all thanks to this modern era, i just hope that HAL keeps going with the franchise, and regarding Star Allies, i like it, i get what people said and i think is better to classify it as a game exclusive to Kirby Fans
Its not just because of the modern Era lmao. It's also because of a great classic foundation for its characters and worlds established by the retro games as well. In fact if ppl love the spooky twists in modern Kirby story telling then even Shinya Kumazaki straight up credited Kirby's Adventure in an interview for that story structure in all the modern games.. Kirby has a long history and but is still very influenced by its roots and references them all the time. It definitely doesn't just start at Kumazaki
The amount of people that say star allies is the worst kirby game, like bruh have you never heard of the fuckin slide puzzle game?
0:03 if you clicked off the video because the video contained opinions you probably eat pizza with a fork
Lol pizza with a fork. I could see kirby having a fork and knife at the ready to eat pizza then just swallow it whole.
I finally played Star Allies and I love it so far
It's short but sweet in my opinion
Thank you so much, love this video, this is literally how I've felt for years and you have just perfectly explained it.
I have been a fan of Kirby since 2004. His franchise is my second favorite after Mario.
It seems like you threw some noticeable shade on the New Super Mario Bros. games. As much as I like each uniquely...even I can see just how samey they are. Having New Soup 2 and U in the same year didn't help things.
Kirby Star Allies is a game that I liked since day one. It's honestly one of my favorites on the Switch. Now...the game is insanely easy and was one of the first to use the derided "free updates" model. I don't really mind free updates, not even for Mario Tennis or Golf, but if they come at the expense of a decent amount of stuff in the vanilla release, then that is bad.
Going back to Star Allies, the mode that won me over is Guest Star. The concept of using any of the Friends in their own mini-adventures is fantastic! This isn't the first time that a mode like that existed, but I'd argue that Guest Star -- even in the base game -- is more enjoyable than the likes of Dededetour and Meta Knightmare. There were around 25 playable characters right from the start!
Of course, the Dream Friends added a hefty amount of value to Kirby Star Allies. With that, we see in-the-flesh returns of beloved faces like Gooey, the Animal Trio, Marx, Adeleine and Ribbon, Daroach, and more. All boast wonderful fanservice to their source games and offer fun stages to explore in their respective Guest Star adventures.
Yeah, Kirby Star Allies is a game that I like a lot. It's not my favorite Kirby title, but is within my top six.
Shinya Kumazaki is a brilliant director. I believe that he also voiced King Dedede in all of the newer games; he makes him sound intimidating! I have much respect for Mr. Kumazaki.
Very nice video.
Thank you for the reception! And keep in mind... I DO NOT hate the New Super Mario Bros games lmao.
I actually think they're all solid games on their own. Its just when you look at them together as a series, they straight up feel copy and pasted as opposed to building and developing upon the formula. I defend the RtDL formula because... well it's very good... but also because it to me did what the NSMB formula should've. Be a solid set of 2D platformers with similar gameplay, but also have shakeups to the main gameplay, theming, etc.
As for Star Allies, I get why its so polarizing as I said. Even in its final state, the main story level design and execution is still pretty dry compared to other games. And again, its stupid easy lol. But I still think its a good game despite these faults.
@@knux333jw Heh, thanks.
I have a habit of defending NSMB because of how often I hear people bash it. Recently, I've gone to appreciate that very few actually _hate_ these games, but are more so sick of the "same old, same old" vibe with them.
The Return to Dream Land formula is certainly a superior way to release 2D platformers. I find each game in the Kirby line to be appreciably distinct from another.
His roars and sounds with Dedede make my day
what baffles me about the arguments against Star Allies is the Updates
...why is a game with FREE CONTENT UPDATES a bad thing?
Kirby Star Allies gained more content FOR FREE
while Street Fighter 5 is another game that launched with so little content to it at full price but I also had to PAY FOR the extra updates that came to the game
Kirby added more characters, more levels thanks to Guest Star and a bonus story mode FOR FREE and Kirby's the one that takes heat because of it? I do not agree with that sentiment at all
I think it's less that it got free content updates and more that the game felt incomplete or unfinished on release without said updates
@@idk-ov9oh didn't seem that way to me, the game still had Guest Star Mode and the Ultimate Choice boss mode
it was still a complete kirby package in my book, the dream friends, the extra levels in their guest star routes and it ending with Heroes in Another Dimention was just more content on top of what was there. so the product just improved with the free updates
@@monster25man fair, i don't really have an opinion on it, since i haven't played the game, it's just what i think people thought
It wasn't because it was a bad idea, it was the execution
I finished watching the full video. I really appreciated what you’ve done here!
Kirby is one of my favorite game series of all time. Modern kirby isnt bad at all star allies may be one of my least favorite kirbys but I still think its good I just thought hal was being somewhat lackluster after planet robobot specifically. Planet robobot was awesome but I think they did too much for the 25th anniversary it all felt in the realm of quantity more than quality. Fighters Deluxe, Clash Deluxe, Blowout Blast, Dedede drum dash deluxe, battle royale, and star allies left something to be desired. I loved the ds spinoffs way more than 3ds spinoffs I wish they really went all out with 2 or 3 spinoffs instead of making like 6. Boxboy was the best 3ds spinoff they made tbh and that wasn't even one of the 6 kirby spinoffs they had on 3ds. The switch so far has been better but still leading off that turning point on 3ds with star allies, another clash and another fighters. I think super clash and fighters 2 had some real improvements this time around but still we had like 3 gamemodes of fighters and clash each in short amount of time. I look forward to what they do in the future but I do hope they go in a new direction not only with mainline like forgotten land but also somewhat their spinoffs.
If people are seriously saying that Kirby games are "doing the same thing over and over again", then they might as well say the same thing to Mario, or at least the 2D series. Legit, every world in 2D Mario games all have the say themes, whether it'd be a grass world, a desert world, a snow world, and so on. The new powerups tend to just be modified versions of previous powerups (Such as the propeller and acorn powerups in NSMBW and NSMBU just being worse versions of the feather from SMW), and some of the powerups also just feel like they came from the developers running out of ideas as well. For example, why would you have a penguin suit that's just the ice flower, but you can slide? At that rate, you might as well just replace the Penguin suit with the ice flower entirely, and it's not like the penguin suit has any downsides that the ice flower lacks anyway. Also, the plot is the same thing for not only almost (if not all) 2D Mario game, but also for the 3D Mario games too. Almost every time, it's Peach getting captured by Bowser, and Mario has to travel to some place (With it often being Bowser's castle/lair) to get her back. The endings also tend to be the exact same thing too, with it mostly just being Peach kissing Mario, and don't get me started on Odyssey's ending. In Odyssey, your reward for beating the game is for Peach to just outright reject Mario, and she almost leaves him on the moon with Bowser. Sure, Mario and Bowser did stress the heck out of Peach for begging her to marry them, but there's no need to let Mario stay on the moon with Bowser, especially with what Mario did for her in the past as well. Then again, Peach at least does feel somewhat bad, but she almost left Mario behind either way. And then there's 100%, where your reward is just a photograph (At least from what I remember), and this isn't the first time that this was your reward in a Mario game as well, since that in Sunshine, after all of the painful difficult spikes that you had gone through, all that you get is a photo as well.
Getting back to Kirby though, every game has something new to offer that doesn't feel like it was just a modified version of something. For example, Star Allies has a mechanic where you and a gang of NPCs or friends can group up at certain sections to become very powerful, and it feels satisfying to form into these powerful things as well, since that there's plenty of secrets that you can unlock during these moments, there's plenty of enemies to focus on to gain more goodies, and there tends to be a trail of goodies as well. There's also the mechanic where two characters can use their powerups that they have to form one powerful powerup, and unlike the new powerups in the 2D Mario games, these powerups don't just feel like modified versions of the powerups that you just combined, since that they have their own downsides. For example, if you combine the stone ability with the ice ability, sure you might be able to break certain obstacles, along with being faster, you have to be careful with using it as well, as you can easily slide into something like spikes or a bottomless pit if you're careless. Kirby Planet Robobot also has the robot mechanic, where if you hop into a robot, you can become much more powerful, and you can also use abilities as well, but the downside with using the robot is that there's plenty of moves that normal Kirby can use, that the robot can't use.
To close this off, I'd just like to say that I love Kirby a lot, and I'm a huge fan of the Kirby series as well, and it disappoints me to see a bunch of people just misunderstand his franchise a lot, especially with Kirby Stars Allies. I understand that people have opinions, but there's just so many things that people miss in Kirby games. While I don't hate the Mario franchise, I'm not afraid to call the Mario franchise out on the flaws that it contains, despite how loved Mario quite a lot when I was just a young chap. For me, it's just weird to see how so many people call Mario's games "amazing" and stuff like that, when they clearly haven't seen how much Mario games reuse stuff like world themes, and with how Mario games just outright modify stuff with little differences. I think it's best to say that Kirby is.... oddly enough, slightly, or maybe somewhat underrated, and I'm confident enough to say that in my opinion, the Super Mario franchise is.... somewhat overrated. These are just my thoughts however, and in no way am I trying to offend anybody with my opinion. Congratulations if you actually read all of this as well, and I hope Kirby gets more respect from here.
Planet Robobot is legit one of the best 2D platformers of the past 20 years. Fantastic game.
Big props to you, this is talking point, that not often bring up
The original NSMB game was the most original before the sequels came out. The bosses are this
Mummy pooky
BEEEEEG FISH
Goomba but big
Petey P.
Mole in tank
Thunder cloud boi
I’m more of an outsider looking in on Kirby so I ain’t got much to say in the way of the topic at hand but
I’m glad this video is doin’ numbers, bro. You deserve to blow up like this in every video. :)
To the point about dedede being possessed and the whisky woods fight happening in almost every game.
That's just tradition. If those things stopped happening, people would become upset. The idea that the first boss should be changed up every game is a horrible idea because at thus point it's become a huge joke in the series.
And dedede becoming possessed or brainwashed has to happen. Dedede's theme is amazing and needs a new remix every game, but dedede has grown as a character. Sure D3 will fight kirby, but not when the world is in danger, and with every mainline game happening with a world ending crisis, D3 has to be possessed if you're going to get that fight
Honestly, and I'm sure it's being said a lot and has been said a lot, they leaned into co-op too much with Star Allies. People misunderstand and think the difficulty is the problem.
Base Star Allies without the dlc is genuinely a very shitty and bad single-player experience (trust me, I'm one of the people who wanted it to be good and fucking hated it), but I have heard a lot that it's fun with other people.
Conclusion: people who hate Star Allies have no friends. (Kidding)
I needed this video. Kirby deserves to be respected as a franchise for being a (mostly) consistently great world to get get invested in weather it would be the mechanical genius of adventure or the development and encouragement of exploration of amazing mirror. Even so though, this debate can be boiled down to the term never judge a book by its cover.
Just because modern Kirby games aren’t directed by sakurai, just because modern Kirby games aren’t groundbreaking masterpieces, and just because star Allies isn’t top tier, doesn’t mean that you should attack the franchise with dumb ignorant arguments regarding its gameplay formula.
Put your phone aside, play the kirby games and have a wholesome time ok?
Modern Kirby not having actual proper representation on Smash is why I'm one of those people who are so glad Sakurai is moving on from that series.
It just came across as petty and vindictive Modern Kirby, for what is _supposedly_ a celebration of a lot of Nintendo properties alongside third party licenses.
Bloody hell, we barely get any representation that wasn't just from Super Star Ultra. We even had an Epic Yarn stage scrapped in favour of a YOSHI WOOLY WORLD stage.
Sakurai is not treating the legacy of the Kirby games that Kumazaki has been continuously growing and expanding. Unlike other franchises, Kirby respects it's legacy and makes nods to it in every game he is in.
Even in Forgotten Land, where it's almost all entirely original still makes nods to Whispy Woods and past games bosses. They still retained the added melody that King Dedede got during Star Allies to add to his new Wilder theme.
Kirby deserves more of a respect as a franchise outside it's lore and games, because it's clear to me at least that Kirby is one of those franchises where it's still being steered by purely passionate people working at the helm.
One thing I love about kirby is how it creates a new story in a new world with a new cast while also doing something new with something from the past kirby games. That's epic expanding the old stuff subtly into the new and it's near perfect. The one thing I love about planet robobot (*spoilers of planet robobot and star allies) is how they brought back nova but made it a new character based around nova a more evil nova if you will have it a new design and new boss fight and didn't even slap marx in your face just as a reference. Any lesser franchise would just have it bring back the old because it's good. Like how pokemon slaps mewtwo in that XY cave or how they just slap legendaries in wormholes. It's easy and simple to do. Yet kirby doesn't bring back the famous villain that came from nova and instead makes an entirely new story out of star dream himself. Its something you dont see in any franchise ever unless the people working on the games are extremely passionate towards the series. While I think star allies had a lot of slapping dream friends in there. I think it still did something cool in terms of expanding galacta knights story in like a 4D reference mania making new with old with the butterfly, the design of morpho, and galacta knight.
You don't know what Sakurai is thinking and spreading bullshit that just leads to a toxic split in the fandom based on your nonsense fanfiction about a man you don't know
Sakurai doesn’t hate modern Kirby, it’s just that since he used to work on the series he doesn’t feel like it’s right for him to apply his vision to Kumazaki’s elements. It’s a respect thing
@@emblemblade9245 He actively censors Modern Kirby involvement in Smash, like with Epic Yarn not getting a stage in favour of Yoshi's Wooly World (such an awful game).
And if he does add Modern Kirby, he does so in the most worthless ways possible so he gets an excuse to say he doesn't add anything representative of Modern Kirby.
Dark Matter and Bandana Dee are arbitrarily made Spirits so he has an excuse for them to not be fighters.
Marx's design is based on HIS original design, and not Marx Soul. Not to mention his attacks doesn't even have anything that references ANYTHING related to his remake iteration.
@@emblemblade9245 We don’t even know _that,_ though. We don’t know ANYTHING about Sakurai’s thought process. Believe me, I want the Modern, Dark Matter, and Flagship titles to have better representation, but all we’re doing is just speculating based on some actions without any concrete evidence about Sakurai’s own feelings.
Yes, he ignores the games he didn’t direct outside of the barest possible representation 90% of the time, but suggesting something as extreme as “Sakurai HATES Modern Kirby” or even assuming it’s a “respect” thing doesn’t make sense, especially since he’s said before that he holds no bad feelings towards HAL and is happy that the Kirby series is still continuing. He even still takes pictures with Kumazaki and the people at HAL when celebrating Kirby.
Until he himself actually says anything about his feelings for Modern Kirby, we’re only working with speculation. Let’s not go around treating it like it’s a fact.
Kirby gets misunderstood and misrepresented more than Dedede gets possessed
Personally, I don't understand why people say that before Star Allies was before it got all its additional content it felt incomplete. I mean what was Kirby's Return to Dreamland's content? Main adventure, the same main adventure but harder and slightly different, an arena, a true arena, and 2 little side modes! What was Triple Deluxe's content? Main adventure, the same main adventure but with King Dedede, based on getting on the best time and slightly different, an arena, a true arena, and 2 little side modes! What was Planet Robobot's new content? Main adventure, the same main adventure but with Meta Knight, based on getting the best time and slightly different, an arena, a true arena and 2 little side modes! As you can see, all of this is pretty similar to each other.
Now, what is Star Allies content BEFORE any of the updates? Main adventure, the same main adventure but with every Allies on top of Dedede, Bandana Dee, and Meta Knight who you can choose to play as, based on getting the best time, and slightly different, what is essentially an arena with 8 levels of difficulty, and 2 little side modes! Star Allies at its base form, before getting any update, already had about the same content as previous modern Kirby games, which on their own have more content than most older Kirby games (and by most older Kirby games I mean, every games that aren't Super Star and its remake). If you complain about Star Allies feeling incomplete before getting the updates, you should complain about the previous games lacking content too! Now, I will say that the 2 little side modes of the 3DS Kirby games were slightly more developed than the ones of Star Allies. They did get games dedicated to them after all. However, at best it's not like those side modes kept you THAT much more entertained than those of Star Allies, and at worst, those side modes are still about as developed as Return to Dreamland's two little side modes! If anything, with the extra adventure letting you play with way more characters that aren't Kirby than any of the previous extra adventures, and the new arena having 8 variants instead of 2, you could argue Star Allies has an even more fleshed out content than those games!
And as a result, Star Allies never felt like a game that needed updates to be truly complete, and when we did get new content it wasn't like "Finally! They fixed the game!", and was more like "OMG! That very good Kirby game is even better now!". And like at its current state, Star Allies is now CLEARLY the Kirby game with the most content (until I play Forgotten Land and see if it has more content), with an entirely new side mode, the extra adventure mode now having 10 extra dream friends to play as who unlike the first three dream friends got new level-design that are unique to them and a reference to the game they come from (for example Magolor's adventure has auto scrollers that take place in another dimension with everything around you being in black and white, just like in Return to Dreamland), and we got a 9th level of difficulty for the arena! So yeah, the extra content added post launch didn't complete Star Allies. It just made a very good game even better!
Yeah, I've never, and I mean NEVER understood why people hated star allies, the friend combos and helpers are a bonus.
You forget how the og true arena didn't have true ex forms for the majority of their fights, (even in true true one some still don't) and how most of those difficulty modes are just lesser versions of the arena. Just because it pretends to have more content doesn't mean it actually does. You can argue whether it's still a good game which is fine, but the 1.0 version simply has less content than previous games, for 60$ mind you. People will get mad about that.
@@lukebytes5366 So first, I am pretty sure that in the hardest difficulty of the 1.0 arena, bosses were harder. Because of that, they were essentially EX forms, without the new designs that usually comes with EX forms. And let me tell you, back then, I would have never guessed that this game would get another difficulty level, because I already thought it was the hardest arena we ever got in a Kirby game!
Second, I never cared about 60$ price tags, because most of the time that price depends on the developpers they come from. Like every modern Nintendo games are always 60$, so like it won't change. However, I will say that what is important for me is how good a game, and how good a game is CAN be determined by how much content it has. When I complain that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe doesn't have any modes that aren't grand prix, time trial, vs or battle mode, I am not complaining that 60$ is too much for a game with not that much content! I am complaining that Mario Kart basically had the same main modes since Super Mario Kart, and that DS had a Mission Mode that somehow was never brought back in future games, and that meanwhile games like Crash Team Racing Nitro Fueled have way more content! This isn't so much to prove that Star Allies has good content. I just wanted to explain why I think people put too much importance to the price of games sometime.
personally I like games like kirby air ride because that game exposed a lot of outside things that originally isn't exposed to a Vass majority of what the current day games do. It focused on vehicle mechanics. Yet it isn't primarily important to the kirby series ( in my opinion) I think that it definitely stands out from other kirby games besides for just being a game based on driving air machines
Si
I got star allies this year and had a blast. All that nostalgia and the ultimate choice were the selling points for me. I had no expectations about the heroes in another dimension, but i ended up finding it even more fun than the regular game. While i find the level design inferior to its prequels, they do the work. After all the updates, it is stil not the best of the franchise, but not a bad game at all. I didn’t have that much fun since 2016 whith planet robobot
Kirby as a series is a game that is meant to be easy comfy and fun. It doesn't focus on pushing boundaries, it doesn't focus on innovation. Kirby is kirby, and always will be.
This
This video reminded me of when I first saw a commercial for Planet Robobot out at a Game Stop some years ago. After completing and adoring Triple Deluxe, and being a lifelong Kirby fan going all the way back to playing Kirby on the Game Boy, you'd think I'd have been ecstatic to see the next title debuting so soon and with such an obviously unique gimmick. The truth is, what I saw disappointed me. I saw Triple Deluxe's Kirby unchanged, just scrolling through teched up buildings. Oh, and like one new power that was incredibly on the nose for the game's theming. The minute or so of trailer footage simply wasn't enough to show the depth the game had, nor the frankly fantastic endgame and postgame content.
Clanky Woods opened my eyes to the quality of design Robobot had going for it. I was not expecting the Whispy refight of the game to turn out to be one of the most difficult incarnations of him in the series! This may be a bit of tunnel vision, since Robobot ended up taking me a fair bit more time to complete than Triple Deluxe, but the flow of powerless combat for bosses seemed to be improving starting with Robobot. When doing the various final arenas powerless, it became more and more obvious that the attacks were designed not to make gathering stars difficult, but instead making a proper counterattack more difficult. In nearly all circumstances when battling a competent modern Kirby boss powerless, you are forfeiting your privilege to attack on your whims. Every attack is a retaliation, tailored to the boss and move you're dealing with. Nowhere is this more obvious than Forgotten Land. The time dilation effect of perfect dodges is exactly what the 3D combat needed, and makes otherwise seemingly untouchable or inopportune openings become consistent and satisfying when you see how to take advantage of it. Not to mention the new subtle learning curve underlying inhaling large clusters of stars or other projectiles in a 3D game space.
I won't even get into how every single Modern Kirby game has managed to not only respect the strides made by previous games, but even celebrate them and expand on them, primarily in the form of consistently shaking up returning boss fights and levels dedicated entirely to celebrating the legacy of Kirby rather than further indulging in a new angle he could take. (looking at you, Star Allies and Triple Deluxe)
There's more that could be said, but I think this is long enough, lol
Lore of K3 Rants: How Modern Kirby is Misunderstood momentum 100
various kirb thoughts
i've been binge-playing all the (main-line) kirby series in order of release and i have gained a new found appreciation for the series where before it's largely been a thing in my periphery that i've never looked at much. (even if i have problems with certain parts of dream land 2 and 3, especially 3)
also lol at the "dedede isn't the main end goal bad guy of most kirby games like bowser is?" dedede hasn't been the main antagonist since dream land on the game boy. he's been a fairly consistent ally in the games he's appeared in since 64.
i think that star allies being less good than triple deluxe and robobot is less a statement on star allies being bad and more a statement on how phenomenal those 2 are.
magalor should have gotten in smash.
I don't think Star Allies is a terrible game, but it's rather uninispired. When my favorite thing about a game is the fact that it harkens back heavily to other games, then it's not an experience I'm going to speak of fondly. That being said, since it's a Kirby game and these games have such a solid formula, it's still pretty fun. My only real huge gripe with it is that helpers will solve puzzles for you sometimes, and you're essentially forced to keep them around in order to mix abilities.
Are people really asking for Kumazaki to be fired? I don't think anybody is actually saying that. If they are, that's obviously a pretty ridiculous conclusion for them to come to. Kumazaki is pretty good. He's probably my favorite director Kirby has had.
Fun fact: star allies's DLC wasn't actually planned. They decided to do it very late into development. It actually wasn't a "fix it later" type game, and they weren't keeping stuff from the player until the DLC was finished. They did what all DLC should do, added content as the game went on
I mean, if the characters were just being restricet by DLC, then the player would have unlocked them in a more natural way than "beat a map, get the next characters"
Honestly, my biggest gripe with star allies was just that I had to beat the game before I was allowed to play as other characters besides kirby
27:07 that's a wild thing to say considering he was basically forced to
He wasn't forced to do shit lol. This is a misconception because
A. People don't know how to not take Game Theories and their reaches seriously.
And B. People can't read.
He wasn't strongarmed into doing anything he didn't want to do. He was told that if he didn't want to pick up on the Smash series, it'd go to someone else of course, and he felt he h a d to because of his strong passion for it.
@@knux333jw although you're true (my mistake for not researching enough when posting that comment) the smash series wouldn't "go to another person" because from what I know the game would've just been a melee deluxe if Sakurai didn't come in (unless a miracle happened)
I really think these people need to understand that Kirby is for beginners. This is why the games smother you with lives. This is why the games are easy. They’re designed for beginners!
Thank you for making this video! I feel much more vindicated knowing that I'm not fighting a losing battle defending a game like Star Allies.
It's like you said, I get that the game isn't perfect, but that's not really an excuse to trash on its entire experience or even the series at the time or even as a whole. Star Allies actually has my respect for managing to achieve a lot of detail even the 3DS titles were not achieving. I can't exactly defend the game being piecemeal, but I at least appreciate what the game ended up becoming. But no, apparently the initial level design and gameplay immediately negates that. This response has put me at odds with the population's overemphasis on first impressions.
In some ways, it makes me worried for the future of Kirby that it gets trashed on so hard. I believe Forgotten Land wasn't out when you recorded it, and now that it is... that game is leaving me a bit cold. I can respect many of the new design decisions, but a lot of the progress made in Star Allies that isn't primarily gameplay oriented was left in the dust. I don't like this angle very much, and it makes me concerned that Kirby will legitimately go the way of Mario. Maybe the fanbase will have memed Kirby into future mediocrity. But hopefully that's not true, Kirby absolutely can achieve what Mario has failed to achieve for years!
Out of curiosity, what is wrong with the angle that makes you dislike it as you do, in relation to Star Allies?
I agree but for star allies.. it's not bad, but i would rather have not bought it
Holy poyo! I have finally found someone who agrees! I thought I was alone!
Bruh I just want combos in Kirby
Kirby star allies was a fine enough game, beautiful graphics, great music, interesting story and awesome finale. The main problem with it was how easy the game is. Yes, they added the post game later, but a lot of people may not have had the game long enough to play that part. I know i didnt. I beat soul melter, and i was like. Wow, really thats....thats it??? Coming off the heels of robobot which had A LOT of extra content it was disappointing. I traded the game in and when i heard kirby got a sort of post game mode that was actually challenging and well designed I....was not about to pay another 60 dollars for that game again. It would have been SO much better if they had either announced the post game dlc early on, or had it there from the beginning
Aight this prob gonna be a long post, cuz I do have a lot to say on this topic as well…
Ok, so let’s talk about Star Allies; I myself don’t hate the game outright, but Ofcourse I have issues wit the game. It’s ok in my book, but I recall beating it for the first time and feeling underwhelmed, and rightfully so. The main issue wit the game is the level design being basic and flat. Abilities are fun, but bosses go down relatively quick (by yourself or with allies ESPECIALLY) and the level design isn’t as interesting as games before. The easy difficulty isn’t the issue, Kirby has shown a game can be easy, but it has to be engaging as well, and Star Allies missed the mark compared to say the 3DS titles. Gimmicks were less refined in Star Allies, which also hurts. Friend abilities don’t do much, and it feels like a quantity over quality scenario with having 4 different friend abilities and only one is really fun or even has any thing close to interesting gameplay (Friend Star) and they feel less realized than Hyper nova or Robobot armor.
30fps is another topic. It doesn’t mean the game is unplayable or even looks bad, the game looks really good, but as Kirby Fighters 2 shows, they didn’t have to go so hard on shaders to cut the FPS in half. But there are reasons why it’s 30, like all the effects, lighting, and multiple characters. KF2 dumbs them down a bit, showing it could’ve worked, but they chose against it.
The DLC debacle is weird too. The game came out in a relatively small state, which would’ve been fine for a 3DS game, but Heros in Another Dimension wasn’t even planned from the start, and was seemingly a response to some criticism. I just don’t like the fact this game is a poster child for “Nintendo Finish it later approach” though I can’t blame anyone for thinking of it that way. By the end of release, it’s solid and has plenty to do, but that doesn’t mean it gets away with it all.
Star Allies was disappointing, I even felt it after seeing the credits roll on my initial play through. Expectations were high for this one since the 3DS titles were of such high quality. And since it was on the new switch that everyone was getting, a lot more people wanted to dip their toes and see what us fans were raving about, just to walk away having a distaste for Kirby. The biggest crime of Star allies was convincing people Kumazaki and HAL aren’t talented and that Kirby was stale. 3/4 great games isn’t bad in my book, nor doesn’t it mean it’s stale seeing as no one ever complained about Robobot being the 3rd game in a similar style.
Nowadays I see Star Allies as a huge fan service send off for classic Kirby, and it’s cute, but it’s not something I would recommend due to the fact that only long time fans can really appreciate what’s there, but even as a long time fan, I can’t say it’s the best game in the series or anything. It has a lot of great things but the main story and overall level design just isn’t engaging enough to warrant me saying “ya gotta pick this up”
This game isn’t soulless, it has a lot of cute things that are nostalgic to so many fans, but it clearly wasn’t trying to hard to make new ones.
Also, as 99.9% of Kirby fans know, Kirby ain’t no NSMB series, even wit it’s 4 main games reusing the same formula, that’s just a stupid comparison and we all know it lmao
I’m a huge fan of Modern Kirby and I agree with this.
Personally, i do like pre-modern kirby more than our current era of kirby, mainly due to nostalgia bias, i admit, but i would never say that they were bad games. And something ive had rattling around in brain that no one talks about, is how Squeak Squad is the forerunner of modern kirby, in several aspects, at least. It reintroduced ability movesets to the franchise, being the first game to have movesets since Super Star, remember how in Return To Dreamland you would shake the controller to charge up the Spark ability? That came from Squeak Squad. Elemental abilities? That was also Squeak Squad. And don't get me started on Dark Nebula, as much as no one wants to admit it, i feel as though the finale of Squeak Squad was the first time that Popstar itself was actually on the line, as in "the planet itself is about to be fucking destroyed so do not fuck this up" kinda deal, like in the backround for Gamble Galaxy's level select, it straight up shows that Dark Nebula is gonna use a black hole to fucking eviscerate the entirety of popstar, and the halberd rushing to stop it. It genuinely astounds me that it goes entirely unnoticed. But enough about Squeak Squad (sorry i gush about it a lot), modern kirby spinoffs suck in my opinion. Back in the day we had absolute MONSTERS the likes of Dream Course and Block Ball and the infamous Kirby No KiraKira Kizzu, and even after that we had goddamn Canvas Curse, which is arguebly one of the most important games in the franchise, we had Epic Yarn, but nowadays? We have minigame expansion packs, microtransactions, porting from one device to another, and a throw away competitive race kinda type of game, and even then many of them just dont even exist anymore now that the EShop got violated by nintendo, and even among these was Rainbow Curse, which was a lackluster recreation of Canvas Curse, and i know people are going to seriously gripe over me saying that. All in all, modern kirby aint actually that bad except for the spin offs, and the Mario Fans who say Mario is better than Kirby need to shut up thats why your favourite game cant come up with a new plot point
100% understand the critique of Star Allies-- hell, I experienced it too on both playthroughs of the main campaign. It's too easy, the game over screen is a myth, the levels are re-used, the gimmick is lazy, ect and so forth. But at the same time, I can't help but celebrate the game as a love letter to the franchise. It encapsulates Kirby. The theme of the narrative (and arguably, the Core Theme of the series in general) and the gameplay are so seamlessly integrated in a cute way that's thematically relevant and relevant to the gameplay. It's about love. Yeah, its easy, but I take it that not only is KSA a celebratory love letter, but also a way for new fans to get introduced into Kirby's world. Non-Kirby fans ate Star Allies up, and non Kirby channels playing it nonstop just proves my idea. KSA has its flaws, but it also has its niches among longtime fans and newbies. Kumazaki is still a fantastic developer, and its okay that not every game in a series is for you. Sometimes, games have their niches. Fantastic video!
Who is saying that Kumazaki should be fired? I've never heard that in my life.
But yes, the further away Kirby is from Sakurai, the better it gets.
Honestly i agree with every points you said in this video exept one, regarding Sakurai and his representation of Kirby in smash.
Sakurai doesnt only do that for kirby, he does it in general for almost every franchises he reference, only taking what most people remember : The older games or designs.
For example : Steve having his old design instead of the new one, Mario not using capi has a major change in his moveset but just has a reference in a taunt to keep his mario 64 inspired one, Sora having his OG costume has default from the first kingdom hearts and mostly doing callbacks of the first game, etc..
And its not like he never does it for modern kirby games ever, he does, like masked dedede has his final smash, galacta knight has an ac for meta knight, and Return to dreamland since smash4 in kirby's final smash.
For me its a bit meh to implie that he doesnt want to aknowledge modern kirby games, maybe its just that he works on the biggest crossover in gaming EVER and can't reference everything.
But thats just my opinion on the matter, its an amazing video thought.
THIS. Kumazaki fans insist on some stupid developers fanfiction in which Sakurai is seething at the mouth when I highly doubt that bullshit lmao and it goes against several things he's expressed in interviews. The man just loves gaming history and honoring it. Tbh if he wasn't honoring his own works either all the under 25 Kirby fans would assume Kirby only started at KSSU and nothing else before existed. Ppl would forget that KSS was a big influence in smash and forget that history too. What's sad is Sakurai knows ppl say this shit about him and in an interview said he felt no ill will to the kids who felt negatively about him because he knew they were young and passionate. He's a stand up guy even when ppl shitting on him and wanting to erase his legacy
Also most ppl are too young to remember but the Kirby fandom before this modern one WAS the KSS fandom cause that was the most bumping scene talking about Kirby the most. A very gameplay centric scene of folks doing arena runs and sharing cool vids and the reason Kumazaki expanded on arena naturally is from that hardcore Kirby scene from then. For as mad as ppl get at KSS rep, that was just the fandom back then and it was a fun time.
Yes, Smash does reference older series overall, as Smash at the end of the day is a legacy focused series. But folks act like Smash doesn't reference the Modern state of series countlessly throughout the games. Adding stages to represent the newest releases, adding characters who originated in newer installments, etc. Fire Emblem alone is a showcase how unbalanced Smash can be with series repping lol. That series gets characters, music, AND stages for its newest releases. While some series legit get nothing new. With something like less popular series like Earthbound, I can understand. But its not unfair at all to ask that Kirby, a major Nintendo IP, get some more love for his newest games. With one new stage, one or two newcomers, etc. Not asking the team to go full FE and add 5+ new Kirby characters lmao.
As for the whole Kumazaki vs. Sakurai hate club thing... all I freakin' gotta say is folks gotta stop acting like I'm trying to start some big divide... Because I'm really not. I feel like folks really underestimate how conencted together Kirby as a fandom is compared to other series. There is no "Classic Kirby vs Modern Kirby" war like with Sonic. Kirby has been so similar between installments and respects all Eras in some form. So its stupid to try and segment the games into dumb generational categories. This video wasn't to say Kumazaki handling Kirby as an Era is definitive Kirby. Just to argue against dumb misconceptions around the games. Nothing more.
@@knux333jw Ow yeah i know i never said there was a separation or something, like i said i almost totally agree on every arguments you said.
I even think that Star Allies had the best lore and final boss of any kirby game ever, and is one of the coolest games i ever played on the switch, wich makes it even more saddening that Kumazaki and the franchise suffered because some people had overblown it and simply didnt gave a fair view of the game.
I just felt that the whole Sakurai segment was a bit exagerated considering the scale of smash has a whole and the difficulties in making it happen to begin with.
Yes characters and franchises arent represented equally, but this game is waaaay too massive and involve too much companies for it to be sadly.
@@knux333jw problem is it’s often that dissatisfaction with smash rep that leads to all these headcanons about Sakurai that leads to straight up hate that turns off some of us Sakurai fans in the fandom. I love Shinya Kumazaki too and was right there cheering with everyone for more rep and one of the earliest adovocates for Bandana Waddle Dee in smash but then starting seeing more personal attacks against Sakurai himself as a person, as a developer, sometimes even against his own games and importance and all that shit turned me off. It’s fine to have beef with rep. Then criticize the product, fine but ppl being like Sakurai is “this and that”, I’m not into. If the Kirby fandom wants to stay chill then it needs to avoid developer drama.
I'm actually surprised that nobody talks about how boring the level design in star allies is. It's actually my only complain with the game since compared to almost every other modern kirby game, the stages in star allies are incredibely linear and empty tho I guess that last one is due to the game wanting you to have 4 characters on screen at all times. The lore is very cool and the bosses are really fun but aside from that I don't really find much enjoyment in playing the game
Leaving notes here.
7:04 the core of the gameplay must be allowed to be flexible to reach it's full potential. Pokemon doesn't reach far enough into it's natural potential while Kirby does.
12:20 a bit too creative this time...
13:38 personal opinion, good but flawed game as during the main game their was times where the main gimmick made it too easy, and is best if you actually get a group of friends to play together, joke together and fail together
There’s a lot of opinions I have on the post-Sakurai times of Kirby. The earlier games have been some of my favorites, even with a few failures. Once Return to Dream Land came out, that’s where the “Modern” times of Kirby began for me.
I don’t think every game was fantastic. Squeak Squad was what I felt every Kirby game should be when it comes to interactivity, but the bubble gimmick was uninteresting and the lack of variety in attacking wasn’t great either. It also felt a bit stiff, but I’n not sure if that’s because of the attacks.
And, of course, almost every “modern” Kirby game has a notable flaw in it to me. Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot: too linear levels. Star Allies: lack of use of combined abilities and pitiful difficulty outside of Ultimate Choice. Forgotten Land: Not much to do once the main game is done, even in the levels.
I’m not outside criticizing the series, but every game I listed was, at worst, average. Criticism of Star Allies has fallen to “do something unique” and the moment they give a 3rd dimension everyone calls it the best game in the series.
Thank you
I blame Youngdefiant for this
You just don't understand his HIGH LEVEL MIND! JK 😂
All of the yes, ALL OF THE YES!!
Your Kirby Court videos are great man! So glad to see your support too.
@@knux333jw Thanks! I love your content too! :v
Speaking of Kirby and the Forgotten Land, although it is a game that gives a fresh air and provides a great experience, there is no denying that the game has weaknesses and many criticisms (which become more noticeable if we compare it with previous Kirby games)
The main criticisms of Forgotten Land that I have seen are the following:
- Forgotten Land is an easy game (not as easy as Star Allies, but still an easy game). The truth is that Forgotten Land is an easy game thanks to the improved Copy Ability. Some of those enhanced Copy Abilities break the game and destroy bosses very easily (the biggest offenders are Cutter, Sword, Fire and Ice in the main story)
- Forgotten Land has the lowest Copy Ability number of a main Kirby game. This is strange considering that there is Kirby Battle Royale: a 3D game that has Copy Ability in 3D (has more variety and a wider move set compared to Forgotten Land)
- Forgotten Land doesn't have much replayability or content to do after finishing the general story. Kirby Star Allies has two game modes that give you great replayability. Forgotten Land doesn't have anything like those game modes (in fact, it's weird that it didn't have a mode exclusive to Bandada Dee like King Dedede and Meta Knight did in the past)
In short, Kirby and the Forgotten Land is a good past to go in the 3D direction with Kirby and a breath of fresh air. However, it had to sacrifice many things in favor of that change and the content it offers seems lacking compared to other Kirby games. I can see Forgotten Land being a Return to Dreamland 2.0: a game that serves as a foundation for future games that will end up surpassing Forgotten Land in many ways.
THANK YOU for bringing these points up about TFL! I’ve been having a mental crisis as of late because I’m an obsessive Kirby fan (I absolutely love every single game (except Star Allies, although I don’t hate Star Allies, I just don’t love it)), and after getting a preview of 3D Kirby in Blowout Blast and 3D copy abilities in Battle Royale, I was excited to play a brand-new Kirby game with TFL. But hot-take here: I can’t stand it. I’ve never felt this way about a video game before. It’s not the gameplay, the graphics, the difficulty, or anything like that. It’s just not immersive nor fun for me whatsoever. And like you mentioned, the copy-ability thing just grinds my gears, not to mention the fact they completely discarded all pause-screen flavor text and move set instructions!
My hottest take on this-please bear with me as I know most people feel the other way-is that the music is some of the weakest in the series. I actually can’t even listen to most of it. Note that I listen to Kirby OST's for hours on end basically all day every day. I love Kirby music, but my brain's musical taste sees TFL's as a conglomeration of notes without a story to it. I’m not trying to offend anybody, but it’s been a source of distress that the soundtrack doesn’t hit me at all. 😭
One last thing is the introduction to the threat/story. That is a major flaw in TFL. All we get is “the Waddle Dee’s are being captured." That’s it. That’s all we get. Compared to the stakes in most other Kirby games, and how the story is told, it’s way too weak. We shouldn’t have to wait until the end of the game to understand a single thing. The game feels more like you’re exploring a new world instead of saving the day, which I know is kind of the point for TFL, but IMO it should’ve been better executed.
Omg I didn’t mean to write this giant thing I’m so sorry 😳😶🌫️
@@leesalee1540 I will respect your opinion, but also completely disagree with most of what you said. Especially the music part. Afterall, I literally watched a professional musician break down why the music in the game is phenominal and tells the story perfectly. It is honestly some of my favorite kirby music ever and I nearly had a panic attack reading how much you hated it, so you must understand how heavily I disagree.
Nah Forgotten Land's flaws really get a pass because it's the kind of thing that barely hinders the experience and the rest has been a much needed welcome for several generations now. I just finished my second 100% file in the game and tempted to do a 3rd. Haven't felt like this in awhile.
@@velvetthesylveon7892 Everyone else seems to share your opinion, which is completely fine, except for the fact I’m still scrambling to figure out why my brain feels a different way. It’s frustrating for me to feel this way because I wanted to like the game sooo badly and I was really looking forward to a new soundtrack. I don’t know why it’s different for me. I wish I could fix myself 😭.
@@MegaKirbySuperstar In order for me to enjoy the experience, I need to be into the experience, and I just couldn’t do it! This game did not immerse me in the story whatsoever. I was forcing myself to play this game, which was such a weird thing to me. 🙁😔
10:10, wait so your saying 2d games can't have good story telling...I think you should just stop playing Nintendo's 2d games.
Hell no. That is not what I said, nor what I implied and wanted say at all lol.
@@knux333jw First off, I just noticed my comments mistake.
Secondly, thank you for clearing that up.
It was an overreaction on my part, though I've come across some who think like that.
I just can't bring myself to forgive star allies.
I enjoyed the game to an extent, and the updates and character additions made the game into a strong contender for one of the best. But that doesn't shake the fact that the base game tarnished the Kirby franchise for the general audience for a long time, specifically the 2d games. Being the first main line Kirby game on console since return to dreamland was a big deal, especially on the switch as it was the revitalizing console for a lot of franchises (Kirby included with the release of forgotten land). But star allies was just such an optic mess of a game at launch that i really don't blame anyone who trashes it. Yeah they updated the game, but the flaws were still there. And to even get to those updates you have to suffer through those flaws in the main story still, "but you have the new characters" no you don't, player 2 does until the post post game. Now it's so difficult to convince people to go back and play robobot, a game I still consider better then forgotten land, because they're fixated on the idea that turning 3d is what Kirby needed. No, Kirby needed a good game at launch, that's what it needed.
Rant over, again I like star allies now but it absolutely doesn't deserve to be given a pass for how it was released.
I cant be the only one who thinks that sakurai does not give two shits about modern kirby or any kirby game he didnt direct, he constanly references superstar, air ride, the og, and adventure but practically never aknowledges any other kirby game. Dont get me wrong i love sakurai and what he has done but hes really really biased when it comes to kirby
No you and others have the same opinion about a man you don't know because you are still all salty about smash brothers. You're not alone in being annoying
Pretty sure it’s a type of Japanese respect thing. He doesn’t want to interpret someone else’s work after he stepped down from it
I love you
I love how this dude goes in on the grand total of 4 super safe vanilla games in an otherwise pretty well varied series. But leaves a far more agregious series alone. Pokemon has done almost THE EXACT SAME THING SINCE DAY ONE. Not only that, but they also have the GALL to release 2 twin versions OF EVERY GAME.
With each one having THE EXACT SAME STORY. I can forgive 4 weaker games in a series, but pokemons been doing it for like 100 games. And its somehow the most profitable franchise in the world
Forgotten land is just dark souls
Star allies 30 fps ruined the fun for me, the game is unearable to play at times, especially in bosses
You didn't touch upon the aspects of Star Allies that made it a huge disappointment for me. The adventure is terrible. The only interesting part of it is the Jambastion. You start out in world one, your standard grass world, no big deal, it's the start after all. World 2 has you jump around the entire planet rapidly between all kinds of different biomes and backgrounds that do look nice, yet are very quick in succession. World 3 introduces the Jambastion, a new environment and a new aesthetic that is mysterious enough. It felt derivative of Haltmann's base at first but the theme of it running on dark magic instead of corporate technology made it stand out well enough. Then you get to world 4, which promises and adventure in the far reaches of space, and then you suddenly find out that the most of the far reaches of space look completely identical to world 2. It feels lazy and boring to see the rehash but it's okay, it's just filler after all. You remember the classic world name acronym, and wonder what DPJS could be trying to spell, and then realize that the game has only 4 worlds. World 4 ends with more of the Jambastion aesthetic and then you're done. That's it.
Meanwhile, Robobot managed to make each world unique and interesting and didn't resort to just having the whole game be dull metallic hallways. World 1, grass level with a unique twist. World 2, Commercial area with busy traffic and huge casinos. World 3, water level inspired by oil tankers and aquatic construction. World 4, Desert level that shows rapid mining and harvesting of natural materials. World 5, Futuristic huge city after dark with a busy and flashy nightlife. World 6, Cold metallic headquarters that incorporates virtual reality.
This is what an actually planned video game journey looks like. What Star Allies did instead was throw together a bunch of assets that lack a theme and direction. When I play star allies I don't feel like I'm actually moving or going anywhere, I'm just playing through video game levels. Robobot didn't have this problem, return to dreamland didn't, triple deluxe was a little surreal with it's levels but that didn't matter because it still fit within it's theme and organized them in a way that felt like an actual progression. Exploring Halcandra for the first time is unforgettable, it's so interesting and foreign compared to the world return to dreamland builds for popstar before it. Even if it's nothing special, that progression makes it memorable. I'm never going to feel that way about anywhere in star allies because it completely lacks that.
Holy poyo! I have finally found someone who agrees! I thought I was alone!