What have your keyboard experiences been like? What level keyboard feels right for you? Drop me a comment! Get a Cloud Nine Ergo TKL here with my Affiliate Link: bit.ly/c9ergouh
Software dev here. Use an OLKB Planck 48 key QMK programmable keyboard. It does everything that a full size board will do with enough fiddling with layers. I used to hunt and peck at about 24 or so WPM, but I bought blank key caps for the Planck and taught myself to touch type during the pandemic and now type at 55+ WPM. I also bought a cheap laptop riser on Amazon to give the board "negative tilt". Haven't had any wrist pain for over three years now.
Love my Dygma Raise egonomic keyboard. I moved the Shift and "p" keys closer to the front, solving a painful wrist issue I previously had. I had to learn to touch type, that was the most challenging part but with no more neck or back pain it was more than worth it. Love the tenting, it's a game changer for comfort. The Dygma series comes in wireless models. Yes its expensive, but you only need one, and your set. The only thing I hope Dygma comes up with on day: forward tenting kit.
Appreciate the excellently presented information that fully educated me on split keyboards. I'm 67, have nerve issues related to neck and shoulder muscle imbalance and tightness. Split keyboard has been suggested. I now understand why. Am getting this keyboard....and yes, from affiliated link. Thank you!
I used to use some type of level 1 keyboard at work but it was enormous and I found in the end it actually worsened my cubital tunnel syndrome because of where my mouse had to be positioned. I've found using a laptop/trackpad has pretty much cured it, but I am currently building myself a corne, which will be my first foray into a level 3 keyboard, mostly just for the fun of it. Would love to see you take a look at trackballs next
Hey there, I have cubital tunnel syndrome too & am currently looking for a keyboard that'll be easier on my arms. What works best for you? I am looking get a tilted split keyboard, but not sure how much it'll help.
I started my Ergo journey on a Kinesis Advantage. I don’t know if you’d consider that a Level 1 or Level 1.5 since it is a monolithic board with a central space, staggered columns, thumb clusters, and key wells. This was my keyboard for over a decade. I switched to the Advantage 360 as soon as it was shipped. And with regard to relearning how to type: I learned Dvorak layout when I was in my 20s after being a QWERTY touch-typist for over a decade. Working as a software developer with a keyboard-driven editor, this was a very brutal experience as everything that controlled my editor had been relocated. Still, these were great choices for the long-term health of my hands and wrists and for my ability to continue working in my field.
I've used a combo of Kinesis Mac (Office)(Level 2) and Logitech MX Ergo (Level 1, wireless :3 ) for several years now, the Kinesis really is plain but it really does get the job done, especially with the longer cable. Tried Ergodox (level 3) and it's too much for me - totally agree with the need to move to other keyboards when needed. Nice breaking down of the levels! I spied at 7:32 you still have the foam wrist rests on the Kinesis - I found they got prohibitively gross after a few months so been working without the foam, but still with the plastic structure, been real happy there. All ears if you found a way to avoid this!
There's a whole world of level 3 keyboards out there and a hobby community of people who keep coming up with more wacky ideas. For the more professional outfits, splitkb and bastardkb are great places to start. There's absolute madmen out there who've designed their own keyboards from scratch. The most dedicated come up with their own key layouts, because going from Qwerty to Dvorak or Colemak wasn't quite good enough for them.
For a long time used the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. It gave each arm a set of keys. But after going through two of them, although one was second hand, i didn't want to pay for another because their durability was so poor. I am now looking to get a keyboard split like this with switched keys. When it comes to repetitive strain injury i suffer from it about 10x quicker than anyone i know... I have high sprint speed, snappy reactions and strength, very low endurace, since i was born. I get repetitive strain injury in traps and shoulder from texting, using a keyboard, a mouse, driving ( right leg at the hip) and from sitting in q reclining chair. I also can't eit in a normal chair for long.
I'm also not a fan of Microsoft keyboard. At one time the blue tooth mouse connection that you use with it was easy to hack as well. I have some sh...ouse neighbours.
If by "switched keys" you mean mechanical switches, I recommend looking into different switches' activation. What you said about low endurance makes it sound like a low activation (so the key gets pressed with less effort) could be key to a mechanical keyboard working for you.
I have the cloud nine with the 10 key, I love it but I feel like the 10 key gets in the way. Thinking about buying this one without the 10 key because I notice a lot of reaching and pain in my right arm when I go for my mouse. They have amazing customer service. I had mine for a year when it started to disconnect and not work with the cable, they sent me a whole new one and it’s been perfect since.
I have one of the original Microsoft ergo keyboards whic came out literally decades ago. It's served me really well and still works, but some of the keys are getting stiffer to press, so it's time for a new one. Time to do some research...
The Keychron Q11 is a split keyboard that's fully programmable with VIA which is fairly simple to use. It saves the config in the keyboard itself so it works the same regardless of the OS. Imo the best if you dont go L3, its very well built and about $200. I use a Kinesis 360, but as you mentioned that's way more involved. I sometime switch to the Q11 because its really nice to type on, they have great keycaps and switches, those are way better than the keycaps&switches on the $600 Kinesis...
I use a cheap ergonomic keyboard, but I like it a lot as it suits me and is split adjustable. It's Goldtouch brand it anyone wants to check it out. Also no bluetooth, wired connection only so not hackable.
I bought this keyboard coming from an MS ergo keyboard. I needed as fast response time as possible and NKRO for gaming. I love this keyboard except for the forced tenting. If you sit with your elbows outward a bit (like resting on an arm chair) instead of straight down... the tenting largely becomes unnecessary... and can even hinder ergo =( ... Depending on where you buy or when, they dont come with the padded rests anymore, at least in my experience. And the listing I bought from did specify that they should. I called C9 directly, and eventually got them to ship me the palm rests free due to what was specified in the listing =)
I'm using the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000. I've been using it and its predecessor for exactly 30 years, and they discontinued it in 2019. So I have to find a replacement and get used to it. I'm not happy about this, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I dislike the Sculpt, dislike the new (even cheaper) Microsoft Ergonomic, tried the Kinesis Advantage 2 and can't get used to it, been watching keyboard videos till I'm about to explode. ALMOST bought the Keychron Q10, until I realized at the last minute that it has zero tenting. They do make a split keyboard, the Q11, but, incredibly, they don't even make a tenting accessory. Very frustrating. The whole thing is very frustrating.
I just started the TOS program and was looking at ergo keyboards -- so perfect timing. The thing is - my setup is a MacBook Pro with external monitor and I only use the laptop keyboard with trackpad. My body hates using a mouse and the movement away from the keyboard over to a mouse and back seriously messed up my right shoulder/arm and these days my hands don't leave the space in front of me. I love the idea of the split keyboard but I live and breathe on my trackpad. I wonder if spending the $129 on an Apple Magic Trackpad plus the $192.49 for the keyboard and accessories and putting the trackpad in the middle would work, and worth the investment. (vs taking frequent breaks and doing the TOS and Shoulder programs!)
If you watch closely, you'll notice I use the Magic Trackpad now. I've used a lot of different ergonomic mice, and at this point I find the trackpad to be preferable so I can do things like pinch to zoom and other gestures in Final Cut Pro...but who knows. I might go back to a mouse or maybe a trackball. I did have the trackpad in the middle position for a while but it has migrated to the right of the keyboard. Haven't decided where actually feels best for me yet. Ultimately some variety helps.
@@sherriclearlake1611 Over time as your shoulders get stronger, you should feel like you have more options. FYI, I've spent the last month back on an ergonomic mouse to switch things up. :)
Hi! Thanks for the helpful video. I have cubital tunnel syndrome & am currently looking for a keyboard that'll be easier on my arms. What kind would be best for me? I am looking get a Lvl 2 keyboard, but not sure how much it'll help.
This keyboard DOES NOT have a standard key layout. The full size Cloud Nine keyboard does have a standard layout and is a much better keyboard. To have a standard layout you need the block with Ins / Del / Home / End / PgUp / PgDn, standard arrow keys, AND a numeric keyboard. Manufacturers take a lot of license with key placement and that costs a lot of time in productivity. The full size Cloud Nine keyboard is the only ergo keyboard I have found with standard key layout, the right ergo features, and quality switches.
Mentioned in the video. Just gotta do quick reprogram of the command keys if you want to retain the layout you're used to. Macro keys gotta be quickly reprogrammed to be "command + [letter] to make them function for copy, paste, etc. Whenever they get the programmability, it'll be GRRRRREEAT
@@halfassedfart I don't like the idea of a separate numpad also then you extend your hand outside the ergonomic zone. Computer keyboard has too much buttons for split to work
My Goldtouch keyboard doesn't have a keypad. I use the top row for numbers. I don't do accounting on it though. I have separate numpads I bought but never use! I find it more comfortable to use without a numpad section on the keyboard - it's smaller.
What have your keyboard experiences been like? What level keyboard feels right for you? Drop me a comment!
Get a Cloud Nine Ergo TKL here with my Affiliate Link: bit.ly/c9ergouh
Software dev here. Use an OLKB Planck 48 key QMK programmable keyboard. It does everything that a full size board will do with enough fiddling with layers. I used to hunt and peck at about 24 or so WPM, but I bought blank key caps for the Planck and taught myself to touch type during the pandemic and now type at 55+ WPM. I also bought a cheap laptop riser on Amazon to give the board "negative tilt". Haven't had any wrist pain for over three years now.
Love my Dygma Raise egonomic keyboard. I moved the Shift and "p" keys closer to the front, solving a painful wrist issue I previously had. I had to learn to touch type, that was the most challenging part but with no more neck or back pain it was more than worth it. Love the tenting, it's a game changer for comfort.
The Dygma series comes in wireless models.
Yes its expensive, but you only need one, and your set.
The only thing I hope Dygma comes up with on day: forward tenting kit.
I am typing this on a dygma defy wireless with tenting. I can confirm that there is forward tenting on this keyboard. 😀
Hello Dygmates!!
I have and use both Deft and Raise.
Appreciate the excellently presented information that fully educated me on split keyboards. I'm 67, have nerve issues related to neck and shoulder muscle imbalance and tightness. Split keyboard has been suggested. I now understand why. Am getting this keyboard....and yes, from affiliated link. Thank you!
Happy this video helped!
I used to use some type of level 1 keyboard at work but it was enormous and I found in the end it actually worsened my cubital tunnel syndrome because of where my mouse had to be positioned. I've found using a laptop/trackpad has pretty much cured it, but I am currently building myself a corne, which will be my first foray into a level 3 keyboard, mostly just for the fun of it. Would love to see you take a look at trackballs next
Hey there, I have cubital tunnel syndrome too & am currently looking for a keyboard that'll be easier on my arms. What works best for you? I am looking get a tilted split keyboard, but not sure how much it'll help.
I started my Ergo journey on a Kinesis Advantage. I don’t know if you’d consider that a Level 1 or Level 1.5 since it is a monolithic board with a central space, staggered columns, thumb clusters, and key wells. This was my keyboard for over a decade. I switched to the Advantage 360 as soon as it was shipped. And with regard to relearning how to type: I learned Dvorak layout when I was in my 20s after being a QWERTY touch-typist for over a decade. Working as a software developer with a keyboard-driven editor, this was a very brutal experience as everything that controlled my editor had been relocated. Still, these were great choices for the long-term health of my hands and wrists and for my ability to continue working in my field.
Thank you for this review. You gave me lots of good ideas!❤️
The affiliate link does not work! Thanks for the review.
I am currently using the Logitech MX Keys. I have tried the Microsoft Ergo years ago. I am looking to a split for my shoulders.
You probably want a UHK Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. I am happy with mine.
I've used a combo of Kinesis Mac (Office)(Level 2) and Logitech MX Ergo (Level 1, wireless :3 ) for several years now, the Kinesis really is plain but it really does get the job done, especially with the longer cable. Tried Ergodox (level 3) and it's too much for me - totally agree with the need to move to other keyboards when needed. Nice breaking down of the levels!
I spied at 7:32 you still have the foam wrist rests on the Kinesis - I found they got prohibitively gross after a few months so been working without the foam, but still with the plastic structure, been real happy there. All ears if you found a way to avoid this!
That foam def. gets gross. I bet with a brush and car carpet shampoo you could refresh it...never tried though so YMMV!
There's a whole world of level 3 keyboards out there and a hobby community of people who keep coming up with more wacky ideas. For the more professional outfits, splitkb and bastardkb are great places to start.
There's absolute madmen out there who've designed their own keyboards from scratch. The most dedicated come up with their own key layouts, because going from Qwerty to Dvorak or Colemak wasn't quite good enough for them.
THIS guy went CRRRRAAAAZY with keyboard experimentation: czcams.com/video/188fipF-i5I/video.htmlsi=jKReZ5I29LLzu0Js
For a long time used the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. It gave each arm a set of keys. But after going through two of them, although one was second hand, i didn't want to pay for another because their durability was so poor. I am now looking to get a keyboard split like this with switched keys. When it comes to repetitive strain injury i suffer from it about 10x quicker than anyone i know... I have high sprint speed, snappy reactions and strength, very low endurace, since i was born. I get repetitive strain injury in traps and shoulder from texting, using a keyboard, a mouse, driving ( right leg at the hip) and from sitting in q reclining chair. I also can't eit in a normal chair for long.
I'm also not a fan of Microsoft keyboard. At one time the blue tooth mouse connection that you use with it was easy to hack as well. I have some sh...ouse neighbours.
If by "switched keys" you mean mechanical switches, I recommend looking into different switches' activation. What you said about low endurance makes it sound like a low activation (so the key gets pressed with less effort) could be key to a mechanical keyboard working for you.
I have the cloud nine with the 10 key, I love it but I feel like the 10 key gets in the way. Thinking about buying this one without the 10 key because I notice a lot of reaching and pain in my right arm when I go for my mouse.
They have amazing customer service. I had mine for a year when it started to disconnect and not work with the cable, they sent me a whole new one and it’s been perfect since.
Thanks for sharing!
Cable is a plus. Can you turn of the lights?
I have one of the original Microsoft ergo keyboards whic came out literally decades ago. It's served me really well and still works, but some of the keys are getting stiffer to press, so it's time for a new one. Time to do some research...
The Keychron Q11 is a split keyboard that's fully programmable with VIA which is fairly simple to use. It saves the config in the keyboard itself so it works the same regardless of the OS. Imo the best if you dont go L3, its very well built and about $200. I use a Kinesis 360, but as you mentioned that's way more involved. I sometime switch to the Q11 because its really nice to type on, they have great keycaps and switches, those are way better than the keycaps&switches on the $600 Kinesis...
Looks like a great option! Thanks for sharing!
I use a cheap ergonomic keyboard, but I like it a lot as it suits me and is split adjustable. It's Goldtouch brand it anyone wants to check it out. Also no bluetooth, wired connection only so not hackable.
I bought this keyboard coming from an MS ergo keyboard. I needed as fast response time as possible and NKRO for gaming. I love this keyboard except for the forced tenting. If you sit with your elbows outward a bit (like resting on an arm chair) instead of straight down... the tenting largely becomes unnecessary... and can even hinder ergo =( ...
Depending on where you buy or when, they dont come with the padded rests anymore, at least in my experience. And the listing I bought from did specify that they should. I called C9 directly, and eventually got them to ship me the palm rests free due to what was specified in the listing =)
what's your opinion on smaller keyboards , like Logitech K780?
I have started my ergonomic journey with periboard-612.
I'm using the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000. I've been using it and its predecessor for exactly 30 years, and they discontinued it in 2019. So I have to find a replacement and get used to it. I'm not happy about this, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I dislike the Sculpt, dislike the new (even cheaper) Microsoft Ergonomic, tried the Kinesis Advantage 2 and can't get used to it, been watching keyboard videos till I'm about to explode. ALMOST bought the Keychron Q10, until I realized at the last minute that it has zero tenting. They do make a split keyboard, the Q11, but, incredibly, they don't even make a tenting accessory. Very frustrating.
The whole thing is very frustrating.
I just started the TOS program and was looking at ergo keyboards -- so perfect timing. The thing is - my setup is a MacBook Pro with external monitor and I only use the laptop keyboard with trackpad. My body hates using a mouse and the movement away from the keyboard over to a mouse and back seriously messed up my right shoulder/arm and these days my hands don't leave the space in front of me. I love the idea of the split keyboard but I live and breathe on my trackpad. I wonder if spending the $129 on an Apple Magic Trackpad plus the $192.49 for the keyboard and accessories and putting the trackpad in the middle would work, and worth the investment. (vs taking frequent breaks and doing the TOS and Shoulder programs!)
If you watch closely, you'll notice I use the Magic Trackpad now. I've used a lot of different ergonomic mice, and at this point I find the trackpad to be preferable so I can do things like pinch to zoom and other gestures in Final Cut Pro...but who knows. I might go back to a mouse or maybe a trackball.
I did have the trackpad in the middle position for a while but it has migrated to the right of the keyboard. Haven't decided where actually feels best for me yet. Ultimately some variety helps.
Thanks! I'll ask Santa to bring me all.the.things. When I used a mouse I trained myself to switch hands to help reduce repetitive strain.
@@sherriclearlake1611 Over time as your shoulders get stronger, you should feel like you have more options.
FYI, I've spent the last month back on an ergonomic mouse to switch things up. :)
Macally wireless ergonomic is what I have, but would like to go to the next level…
Hi! Thanks for the helpful video. I have cubital tunnel syndrome & am currently looking for a keyboard that'll be easier on my arms. What kind would be best for me? I am looking get a Lvl 2 keyboard, but not sure how much it'll help.
before watching, i just wanna say [well done on the fully split, but...]:
**collumnar**
**dactyl / curved**.
:) more mendy available yet.
This keyboard DOES NOT have a standard key layout. The full size Cloud Nine keyboard does have a standard layout and is a much better keyboard. To have a standard layout you need the block with Ins / Del / Home / End / PgUp / PgDn, standard arrow keys, AND a numeric keyboard. Manufacturers take a lot of license with key placement and that costs a lot of time in productivity. The full size Cloud Nine keyboard is the only ergo keyboard I have found with standard key layout, the right ergo features, and quality switches.
So I got this based on your recommendation thank you :-). But I'm curious how do I know what the right spacing is for me. Is it just what feels good?
Yup, just do what feels good. Start with a little bit of split, then gradually widen it.
THey need an affiliate link with a coupon code? Mind asking for us?
The copy/paste, volume buttons and other programming keys are working on Mac?
You gotta reprogram those macro keys to be command + c, a, v, etc. The volume dial works fine by default.
What are the limitations for Mac users?
Mentioned in the video. Just gotta do quick reprogram of the command keys if you want to retain the layout you're used to. Macro keys gotta be quickly reprogrammed to be "command + [letter] to make them function for copy, paste, etc. Whenever they get the programmability, it'll be GRRRRREEAT
I type with 1 finger so i dont need a split keyboard
Lol I went from a normal keyboard right to a level 3 keyboard.
The key and switch quality is a big deal. I have the logitech you showed as well. Those keys are awful.
one finger, never in tense . relax. you are correct about muscles. but rethink all your other thoughts................
i am sure you are fast at ''input'' but, dont they have ''speak to'', so you need not type? .i use one finger
Technology not quite there yet, makes lots of phonetic mistakes. Faster to type.
Unfortunately split keyboard is not usable = no place to fit numpad ergonomically. Deal breaker.
Balderdash. Put it on a separate layer and you can have it right under your fingers.
@@halfassedfart I don't like the idea of a separate numpad also then you extend your hand outside the ergonomic zone. Computer keyboard has too much buttons for split to work
You can actually just put the num pad in the space between the two halves or use programmable layers (if you're on a programmable keyboard)
My Goldtouch keyboard doesn't have a keypad. I use the top row for numbers. I don't do accounting on it though. I have separate numpads I bought but never use! I find it more comfortable to use without a numpad section on the keyboard - it's smaller.