Tesla Model 3 Total Cost After 5 Years! I'm Shocked
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
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Tesla Model 3 ownership cost after 5 years & 120,000 miles
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0:00 Tesla Model 3 Ownership Cost
0:51 Upfront Cost
1:51 Service & Insurance Cost
4:45 Charging Cost
6:49 Toyota Camry Cost Example
8:17 Tesla vs Gas Car Cost
A few years ago I thought I was crazy when I splurged on a brand new Tesla Model 3, but recent news just came out that claims a Tesla Model 3 is actually cheaper than the average new car in the US. But when it comes to total cost of ownership how does an “expensive” Tesla Model 3 actually stack up when compared to “cheaper” popular cars like the Toyota Camry?
My 2018 Tesla Model 3 is one of the 1st production RWD versions with the long range battery. It has standard 18” wheels, red paint, premium upgrade package, Enhanced Autopilot. This particular variant was $56,000. But I received the full $7,500 federal EV tax credit which brought the price down to $48,500. However, I had to install an outlet in my garage to charge the car which brought the total upfront cost to $49,440.
In the beginning before my Tesla Model 3's new vehicle warranty expired there were a few minor repairs that were done - all covered for free under the warranty and fixed by a mobile technician at my location. Here are all the repairs and maintenance that I’ve paid for out of pocket: Tesla's recommended 2-year service checkup (brake calipers & brake fluid) for $390. My driver side window buttons needed repaired for $94. My charge port stopped automatically opening/closing which cost $311. My driver seat occupancy sensor needed replaced for $99. The 12v battery that provides auxiliary power needed replaced for $109. All of my maintenance & out-of-warranty repairs cost $1,003.
I pay about $150/month for full coverage insurance on my Tesla. I’ve only replaced my tires twice for a total of $1,411. Nearly all of my tire rotations were done for free at a local tire shop, but for my last two rotations I decided to pay Tesla to come to my location to do it for $50 each. This brings my total cost for tires & insurance to $10,511 after 5 years.
To drive 120,000 miles my Tesla Model 3 used 30,361 kWh. I’ve had free Supercharging for the majority of my ownership, but I'll pretend that I had to pay for it. 94% of my charging is at home & 6% is at Superchargers while traveling. The total energy pumped into my car at home is 28,539 kWh. In my city of Louisville KY electricity costs 10 cents per kWh. That means my total home charging has cost $2,853. That leaves 1,821 kWh of electricity when traveling on trips. The average Supercharger cost is 25 cents per kWh. That means my total Supercharging cost (if I actually paid for it) is $455 which brings my total estimated charging cost to $3,308.
This brings my Tesla Model 3’s grand total cost of ownership to $64,262 after 5 years & 120,000 miles.
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*UPDATE: It's Time to Replace My Tesla Model 3* ➡ czcams.com/video/b4pgDQEj8tw/video.html
You left our resale value after 5 years
@@robertbenn8230
We bought our Honda Civic, after 16month driving, sold back for a few Bucks more.. 😂 😂
The Resale Values of Teslas and others BEV tank... ☺ ☺
The Investments of A Brand New Honda Civic and the $20k-25k Invested since 2018 compounded interests or stocks gains would have been enough to buy another Honda Hybrid Accord or Subaru Crosscheck Hybrids... Which then can save more of mpg... 💘 💘
I have done similar estimations and all my figures showed the same as yours. There are no real savings going electric at all. And if you need a new motor or blow a cell or two in the pack, those become major expenses and are NOT DIY friendly at all.
Where do you get your insurance? I recently got mine from Progressive and it is $256/mo!
Truth is gonna hurt the tesla cult
One of the biggest costs of car ownership is depreciation/resale value. It needs to be included for a real comparison.
I think this accounting method is called "cash basis" so doesn't account for the value of assets held. But yes, a better method would be to count the currently held asset and depreciated value. Although the Model 3 would have fared much worse when it comes to depreciation. Edit: Turns out the Camry KBB is $13.3k vs $18k for Tesla (private party, good condition in CA)
@@cbkenison is that accounting for the rebate you get back instantly in cash ?
@@cbkenison "I think this accounting method is called "cash basis""
If you were a business, yes, but the question is really about the value of the your car when you decide to sell it to buy a new one. Does it depreciate at a rate that is more or less than a non-EV is the only real concern for someone buying a car.
Used EVs have zero value obviously, their batteries are always shot by the time 3 years is over. EV owners always eat their car.
@@CarkeekW my understanding is that it is a tax credit. You will only get credit for the amount you would have paid that year. If you pay less in taxes than the credit. You get less in the credit.
I travel less than 3,000 miles per year, cannot write off taxes, but mostly do my own maintenance. This makes buying a second hand reliable car, and running it to extinction my best economic option.
Buy gas.
Exactly, a couple years ago I bought a 2011 Honda Pilot with 116K on the odometer for $10K. It replaced my 20 year old 230K F150. The Honda is clean and dealer serviced its entire life. It now has 124K, runs like a top. Full coverage Insurance is $700/year. Honda Pilots easily go 200K with proper maintenance and I'd still be way ahead on money if gas was $10/gal so it's likely I won't live long enough to screw with the electric revolution.
@@ericcsuf still driving my '99, all I care is my car gets me from point A to point B reliably and my car has always done that. It has 165k on it and these cars will go beyond 300k miles without major issues if you take care of them and since I retired I only drive about 4-5k miles/year so it will most likely be my last car.
It's everybody's best economic option.
I bought a 10 year old Nissan leaf 3 months ago and run it off solar completely 20 % of new price and tires and wiper blades in another 3-4 years brakes should last another 10 years I do 2-3 x your mileage but will reduce as I am retiring.
I would like a Tesla buy have no real need as for a petrol car no thanks, I am spoilt with the zippy acceleration and silence not missing the fun trips to the petrol stations, a few seconds plugging in at night and unplugging in the morning
Tesla stock dipped severally , resulting to about 23% drop in the shares value this month. I seriously need suggestions on how to diversify my $400k portfolio made up of volatile TSLA.
Find stocks with market-beating yields and shares that at least keep pace with the market for a long term. For a successful long-term strategy I recommend you seek the guidance a broker or financial advisor.
True, A lot of folks downplay the role of advlsors until being burnt by their own emotions. I remember couple summers back, after my lengthy divorce, I needed a good boost to help my business stay afloat, hence I researched for licensed advisors and came across someone of utmost qualifications. She's helped grow my reserve notwithstanding inflation, from $275k to $850k.
@@WilliamRosser487 How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financlal future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success?
@@CharlesLarocca ‘REBECCA CHARLOTTE CRAIG’ is the licensed advisor I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
Thank you so much for your helpful tip! I was able to verify the person and book a call session with her. She seems very proficient and I'm really grateful for your guidance
I think it's important to stick to stocks that are immune to economic policies. I'm looking at NVIDIA and other AI stocks. It seems AI is the trajectory most companies are taking, including even established FAANG companies. Maybe there are other recommendations?
I bought into NVIDIA around September because my financial advisor recommended it to me. She said the company is selling shovels in a gold rush. It accounted for almost 80% of my market return this year.
Surely the biggest factor missing is what the residual value of each of the vehicles would be after five years?
esp when batteries need replacing.
After the guarantee is a Tesla worth zero. :D
Without considering depreciation this video is a bad joke
Not to mention battery replacement cost after 8 years.
@@tophatanimation8748Battery tech can always get better and price be reduced. Tesla makes millions of cars making it easier to find the part and replace. An engine or motor won’t ever be reduced and very few are made
I just read and article about a fellow in British Columbia, Canada, who sustained minor damage to the battery protective cover of his 2022 Ioniq 5. The dealership he went to said they could not guarantee the battery was not damaged, so to maintain his warranty coverage, he had to get the battery replaced. Cost of a battery replacement $60,000 CDN. Cost of a new Ioniq 5, $58,000, so ICBC (the only option for liability coverage in BC), wrote the car off. The object he hit had only caused minor damage to the battery cover, but if he kept driving the car and the battery caught fire, he would not have any liability coverage, not to mention, no warranty. People will think long and hard about range limits and long term battery reliability when they weigh the options between an ICE or EV purchase, but rarely think about the implications of getting involved in a collision. Even if your car isn't written off, there should be concerns about the number of shops that are qualified to fix it and how long it won't be available for you to drive.
😢
My buddy has a family minivan which is 20 years old, we replaced the entire engine with a good used one from the scrap yard in 2 days, total cost was around $1800, that was almost two years ago and still going strong.
@@retiredbore378 My daughter has a previous version of the Ioniq 5 EV. They were just named Ioniq and you could get the same model in ICE, Hybrid, or full EV (hers is the full EV). It is an OK car and saves them a fortune on fuel costs (they have a level 2 charger at home). Her husband has a ICE VW Golf, so they have an alternative vehicle for long trips. However, not everyone is a perfect candidate to own and EV like she is. To date her only major complaint is that the Hyundai dealerships she had to deal with have been horrible.
Motormouth (the authors you referenced) posted a second video of another almost identical case (this time on the East Coast), with the same model of car, validating the battery replacement cost and write-off probability reported in the original article.
@@davidkendall1614 Thanks, yes, I did see their second video. Also saw one from a young fellow in the US that had problems with the fit and finish and some electrical issues with accessories. Took the car back to the stealership multiple times and they failed to fix anything. He (after a lot of heartache and sweat) got Hyundai to buy the car back. We had a deposit on a 2022 Ioniq 5 to replace my wife's aging Acura RDX. The dealership phone early in 2023 to say all the 2022's were gone and they had no idea where we were in the queue for a 2023, so returned our deposit. We ended up getting a Mazda CX30. So far it is great. Comfortable and fun to drive and has averaged 8.1 liters per 100 in the first 18,000 km. I think we may have dodged a bullet by not getting the Hyundai.
You forgot something very important: re-sale price. Re-sale price should be discounted from the total cost of ownership for the given time period.
What scares the hell out of me is that in 2 years his car used 5X more power than my HOUSE... Where is all that electricity going to come from when the same crowd pushing all-electric houses & cars is also tearing down conventional power plants & hydropower dams?!?
The elephant in the room no one talks about.
I was thinking the same thing. Especially in California where there are already seeing black and brown outs they are pushing EV's hard but at the same time they told people NOT to charge their cars in certain times of day in summer time.
@@lashlarue59 Same thing here in Oregon - our mindless legislature slavishly follow every malformed idea that comes out of Sacramento... First, the Low-Carbon Fuel Standard raised gasoline 30 cents/gallon (waaay over their estimate of 4 to 19!), now they're phasing in the Cap and Tax plan that's going to raise it much more, along with natural gas and electricity. For the coup de gras, they've already torn down the only coal-fired 24-hour base-load plant we had, and want to tear down 4 hydropower dams that make CARBON FREE electricity 24/7 to cover us when the sun isn't shining & the wind isn't blowing... 😖
It would appear that you didn't figure into the equation the fair market value of each car after the five years.
ICE cars wont be useless after 10 years.
I would be curious to see both vehicles' depreciation cost after the 5 years.
So I bought a 2016 model S with lifetime super charges. Checked the only ones I could find were over 50K. I paid 66K. I save 10,000 a year in gas. I averaged 40,000 miles a year. No maintenance. I drive for free. I wouldn’t take 100,000 for my Tesla! Depreciation? I’m making money! And it’s fast!
What is the true delta? Tesla requires 80-100 kWh per charge. Based on Teslas kWh ratings, you pay about $1.25 per 34 miles of driving for energy cost (if you are charging at home...). I pay $3.20 per gallon of gas to drive the same distance in my Toyota Camry.
Therefore, strictly looking at cost per mile, you will "save" $6,883 over 120,000 miles of driving.
How much is the battery replacement? Oh... $10,000 to $15,000 dollars? And you need it after about 100,000 to 150,000 miles of driving? Okay then....
@@basilman121 you do not need to replace the battery after 150k miles (and it would be covered under the S/X warranty anyway up until 150k), but it should be factored into the cost per mile. Tesla claims 12% degradation after 200k miles. Also the Model 3 gets ~4mi/kWh, that means if you pay $0.10/kWh that's $0.025/mile or $0.85/34 miles. Of course not everyone has cheap electricity like the video poster.
@@XPEDITCHIS BULLSHIT....you save $10,000 a year...ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT that equals over 70,000 Miles driven PER YEAR. EV owners always lying.
@@cbkenisontrust you still have to replace it down the line wether it’s 150k or 200k. The cost of the battery plus labor and tax is well over 15k. That’s about the savings of the no maintenance.
Wrong, you need to calculate the resale value of your Tesla too. We know the revalue of any EV is crazy low for no body want to buy a used EV & pay for the insanely expensive battery replacement.
To answer many peoples questions: resale on a 2018 model 3 is roughly 27000, almost a 50% depreciation rate over 5 years.
I've got 3 Toyotas. A total of 5 years and 55k miles of ownership. The only issue ive had across all 3 vehicles was a nut came loose on the back hatch of my 4runner. It took me 10 minutes to fix. I know where my money is staying.
Also, a battery pack replacement is significantly more expensive than an engine replacement.
Yea I’m with you on this one.
This is why you don't keep an EV for more than 10 years and why I'd never buy an EV that's older than 3 years.
Battery lasts 250k plus miles and requires less maintenance.
@@dmitriystrunin7160 Neither mileage nor years determines battery life. It's related to how many times it's been fast charged, how many times you charge it to 100%, how many times you let it get below 10%, and how often it's used in cold weather.
Unless the car will give you that information, you have to assume the worst
When no more ice vehicles are allowed to be sold they will increase fuel costs to make it too expensive to own an ice car, this sadly will affect the poorer amongst us who pay a few hundred dollars for a car and drive it until it stops.
With ev's after 10 years the battery replacement costs will make them not even worth the few hundred dollars they will be priced at. Replacing an engine costs a few hundred dollars, replacing a battery costs thousands.
And if battery tech enables batteries to hold 90% charge after 10 years, they will still be overly expensive for second hand buyers.
Do another video including the cost of battery replacement including labor.
Then another video on trade in value.
Then another on insurance rate comparison
I'm glad your so pleased with your Tesla! You didn't mention resale 😮 ! Sounds like a sales pitch! At this point in time I'll take the Toyota hands down !!
Spot on with those three extras ... Also, In Australia its hard to drive to the closest next town without recharging. No spare tire or anything. Get a flat and you need to call someone to bring you a "Loan tire" then drive to the closest city for replacement. Took four days and $600 to resolve. (15min in ICE car & $150 for good tire) Madness. Can not drive long distances after hours in case something goes wrong.
Hundreds of comments about battery replacement on here. It's a myth, you simply don't do that.
@@jesan733They are lithium cells. How different do you think they react over time to the ones in your phone. Of course they'll lose charge. Look up Hyundai Ioniq 5.
Haha he thinks this is an investment, he spent 65 thousand dollars and he might be able to sell if, if he's very lucky for 20 thousand. Good investment! And of course, the massive environmental impact of mining those batteries that after 10 years become unusable with 3% of lithium only recyclable is a very wise choice! Teslas are like iPhones.
When doing these estimates to purchase my car, I also took into account opportunity cost of the amount of time I would have to spend at gas stations, service centers/dealerships. Also, the average maintenance costs seem low considering the major recommended maintenance at major mileages (25k, 50k, 75k, etc...).
EVs are awesome.
How long do you anticipate it will be before the battery needs replacing?
sounds like 5 to 8 years..
At the ten year mark the Camry would still be a desirable used vehicle if maintained well during that period. The Tesla would not attract too many interested buyers regardless of the maintenance performed.
I dont think that is really true. Batteries would be the biggest concern on a 10 year old EV. But, Tesla batteries have been shown after 8 years of heavy use to have the same capacity they did when new. I was amazed at that, but it is true. This was verified by independent labs.
@@michaeldoherty2289 I disagree the battery will not last.....think of your smart phone as an example...google it and you will see plenty of Tesla owners who had to replace batteries out of warranty at about 20000.00
@@michaeldoherty2289 100% of the Tesla owners I know (1) would NOT get one again but won't run to sell it either... Random glass roof shatter... Much maintenance... difficulty just using AAA to get it to mechanic.... My civic has never been towed since 2011
Good to know. I will never buy a Tesla because I think Musk is a danger to the survival of the planet. I have an Outback with Starlink. That is the most I will ever financially support him. If I had known some of my Subaru cost was going to him before I bought it, I would likely have purchased another Honda. I am with you but for different reasons! @@lazstan
@@michaeldoherty2289 amazed because it flys in the face of logic. go with your gut. no one wants to buy a 10yo electric when the battery replacement is 10-20K
What other factors which need to be taken into account, is the current resale value of each vehicle, plus the cost of replacing the batteries, when needed. This is one factor, few ever regard, when comparing.
engine transmission more brakes and other items in the camry ICE is 3k moving parts. 300 for ev
Elon knows you will save @12,000-$14,000 in gas over 10 years in comparison to a 6 cylinder engine. To then replace the battery after 10 years he wants $16,000+labor & taxes... I haven't bought an EV and never will be.... Hybrid is my only option, but.... perhaps in the future it may come logical to acquire one...say 15 years? Car depreciation is a big factor...
Fact check False
@@kunstfamily engine, brakes and full drivetrain replacement will not cost as much as a battery replacement... and more importantly will likely never be required.
@@mwwhitedJust dump it somewhere and buy a new one. It's the American way. Yall are super rich. Why else will you buy and EV? Everyone knows its the factories that are causing all the uproar for the environmentalist. The cars are way down low on the list. Like number 14
How much do batteries cost to replace?
Hmm, how does the comparison work out when it's time to replace the battery pack? I think that would be very expensive (upwards of $20k). You might have to donate it for scrap. How would the Camry stack up at that mileage?
After 8 years we had to replace the battery pack on the model s for 24000€. You should include the potential cost of battery replacement.
A Tesla battery usually lasts 250,000 miles to 400,000 miles. In Germany, someone drives 630000 miles with the first battery. LFP batteries can even cover 2 million miles. A battery in the Tesla is never exchanged. Normally only individual cells are replaced.
@@4Fingr So you're telling someone that had to pay a considerable amount of money (More than replacing even a complete engine and drivetrain on most internal combustion engined cars) to have their battery replaced that actually batteries last way longer, so they shouldn't have to worry about it? As well as pushing the lie that Tesla provide any support for repairs to individual cells in batteries. Please prove me wrong that Tesla will replace the bad cells in a battery and do it at a price that doesn't make the car effectively a write-off.
@peglor Here in Germany, the procedure is as follows:
1. removal of the complete battery in 30 minutes, installation of a replacement battery or you get a hire car.
2. shipping the battery to the Netherlands, where there is a cell exchange centre.
3. return shipment and installation in the car. 🎉
with a realistic life span of 8-12 years, & a replacement cost of $12-20K (current pricing), Tesla's battery pack is the achilles heel of the system. due to worldwide demand, the materials used to manufacture said batteries are becoming more scarce. in '23, I think hybrids are the best bang for the buck.
LOL "realistic life span of 8-12 years" do you people actually believe that?
@@Turk380 No, it's more likely over 15 years. On average, the battery in an EV will out last a modern engine or transmission, and cost half to replace,
@@damienphillips6778 engine failures are not so common after 15 years. You're math is off
@@damienphillips6778 cost half to replace....it will cost half of ?
@@damienphillips6778 That Tesla model 3 battery is $14k+ labor Yea...that would half the cost if you were talking about a Ferrari or a McClaren engine. lol
You didn't add in the $25k for the replacement battery that you are going to have to buy shortly!
Except that doesn't happen.
@@timsbird1971 except it does, he's already thinking of changing the car as shown in his top comment. His resale value after 5 years of ownership is around 16k, 14k for trade-in at tesla. He says he has a "lucky" battery because it's at 93% health after 5 years compared to other owners that have much lower battery health remaining for the same period (I'd say about 80%), and yeah, when you reach that level it's about time to spend the 25k on a new battery pack, otherwise your resale value will go down to about 5k. I mean really, say he won't change the batteries today and he sells it, would you spend 16k for a used car that will require an additional 25k investment in maximum 3-5 years? Should I even mention that insurance companies are gonna start taxing the hell out of ev customers because the manufacturers basically made sure you can't change only one battery at a time in case of a minor accident which happened to damage 1 or 2 of them? They're totalling all EVs like Tesla for a minor accident just because it costs them more or the same as a new car to replace the whole battery pack for minor, but dangerous, damage to a single battery. Thermal hydrogen engines will come in the next 1-2 years and the whole EV market will go down the drain.
@@CeZarMusic hydrogen is not going to happen. Toyota, the only real proponent has stated they are not pursuing it for mainstream use. It simply costs too much to produce and transport and is actually more likely cause catastrophic damage in a collision. Battery replacement, if you look at the sales numbers, simply isn’t happening. We know of a taxi company that drives only EVs, has a fleet of over 20, regularly clears 200K to 300K on a car before retirement and has never replaced a battery or needed to. Our last EV was 10 years old when we sold it, had over 80k on the clock and 92% on the battery. EV insurance rates, in the UK as I know this area, are only going up as a percentage the same as ICE insurance. The US is always a bit behind in tech - look at their refusal to stop using coal for power - look further abroad.
There’s a million mile Tesla in Germany I believe that only required 3 battery replacements. They’re not as common as you think as they’ll outlast most engines and transmissions. And with battery tech improving they could last even longer now
@@jay.rsingh2530 3 battery replacements x 25k doesn't sound too good for a mil km, that's 125k for the whole thing. You can buy 5 dacia petrol cars with that money and get at least 2x that range.
Almost $400 to replace brake fluid. That's what us guys with a wrench and a drain pan call a sucker.
I would like to see vehicle depreciation calculated in this comparison.
It looks like a 2017 Tesla Model S with 100,000 miles is selling for around $25,000. Something to consider is that the battery warranty expires at 120,000 miles so, should the battery fail, it will cost $20,000 to have it replaced. The batteries have a life of 1,500 charging cycles. Meaning that the battery will last just over 4 years if you charge it once every day. In other words, be prepared to pay $25,000 for the car and another $20,000 out of pocket for the battery in about 1 year, if you can find someone to replace it.
@@WilliamHearnTOEFL_Tutor Tesla Model S has 8 years of warrenty on the battery, so it's still under warrenty. Also the battery doesn't suddenly stop working after 1500 cycles, but capacity will slowly diminish. EV's lose on average 1-2% capacity pr year, only 1,5% batteries have been replaced and majority under warrenty. Most modern batteries will outlast the car.
@@FrodeWarholm Thank you for responding. Yes, Tesla has an 8 year battery warranty, BUT it's 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first. Uber drivers are finding that out in their first or second year when they must pay $10K - $15K to replace the battery. Also, do your research. Tesla tells you that the battery simply begins to degrade gradually but that isn't the experience most Tesla owners are having. One more thing, the replacement battery is a used, reconditioned battery that you are paying for as 100% new. Who knows how many hours are on the replacement battery. EVs are a great, fun ride, but NOT at all environmentally friendly. NOT in the least. The only thing they are good for is noise reduction on the road. Speaking of being on the road, their tires and breaks wear out incredibly fast as well because they are super HEAVY. That's why they often kill the drivers of the cars they have a collision with. I won't even go into the fires issue.
@@WilliamHearnTOEFL_Tutor As I said, according to data about EVs, only 1,5 percent has had a battery replacement and majority was done under warranty. If you purchase a new battery then you get a new warranty, if you buy a used battery then obviously you won't get full warranty. Tires wear out about 20% faster than ice cars and its mostly due to the higher torque of most EVs, so if you ease of the acceleration them the wear will be minimal. Also there are tires specific for EVs that reduce this even further. Ice cars are 10 times more likely to catch fire.
@@WilliamHearnTOEFL_Tutor Also, brakes most certainly do not wear out fast, quite the opposite, the biggest problem with EVs and brakes is that they are being used so little that they start to rust. EVs break primarily by using regenerative breaking.
One big issue is missing : in case of even a minor accident, the repair shop may not agree to garantee the battery operation (risk of fire). That is why EVs with apparently minor body damage end up at the car dump.
Good point.
At the wrong angle a 25 mile per hour crash can total a Tesla.
I've heard that some tow companies won't even tow an electric vehicle or they will charge up to $1k. They also need a special place to store the vehicle because of the chance of the batteries catching on fire.
Insurance is a problem too because of this.@@kens32052
Check the insurance cost of a same price range ICE car vs an EV. Due to the more expense involved in repairing an EV as a result of safety concerns....and often a minor accident that causes some possible battery damage will cause a write off of the entire car. As a result a EV can be 25-30% higher cost to insure....and that seems to be climbing as realities hit the insurance company. When they finally have some sort of a solid state battery they will be safer but right now there are some big safety concerns such as fires..... The batteries are about 1/2 the cost of a new car so a lot potential more expense if you have a accident that may impact the battery life.
When (miles) does the Tesla batteries need to be replaced and how much is that cost versus engine replacement of camary?
The batteries are made to last longer than the lifetime of the car so you should never need to replace the battery on your own. Let alone it coming with a 125k warranty on the battery (if it degrades more than 30%), there are multiple teslas reaching 200-500k miles with no need to replace them and they supercharge extremely frequently which is not as good for the battery
Cameras won't leave you stranded in a snow storm without power
You meant Camry
Hey Andy. Enjoyed your price breakdown. But you missed something. When the Toyota is sold at 120,000 miles it still has significant value because while looked after it easily has another 120,000 miles that can be put on it. This is not likely for the Tesla. At some point during the next 120,000 miles the battery will need to be replaced the cost of which is roughly equal to the cost of a new Tesla. The Toyota has no such cost. I currently drive a Toyota echo with 215,000 miles, the last 100,000 of which I put on the vehicle. I have had no significant cost related to the upkeep of this vehicle. Battery, brakes, tires, lights, oil have needed replacing. But that's it. So I would be interested to see you add the resale value of each vehicle added to your cost comparison.
Exactly! This is a very valid and strong point
Tbh cars at least here in england we generally class has bangers over 150k anything over 200k will have lost virtually all its value and many are scraped .not that a car shouldn't do more than 200k and still be functional.often though they need a replacement clutch maybe cam belt replacement to be safe other bits when they are only worth 1 to 2 k people either run em till they break or scrap em .there little incentive to spend money on old high mileage car had it has little resale value.true though I can imagine many old ev cars requiring battery replacement at 200 k or less and unless third party battery repair specialists can refurb one at sensible cost they will be scrapped
My uncle is living in the UK and I am familiar with the western Europe way of living which is impressive in certain things. However I have one criticism - most of the people are not living the way of life we see in the movies or in CZcams, for example in Bulgaria the average age of all vehicles is something like 20 years, which is insanely old, however the majority of people are not driving more than 10-15K km and it is fine. Bulgaria is a small market, however in the other eastern Europe countries, in Russia, Ukraine, Africa, not to mention India and other countries - we are talking billion of people which cannot afford a decent car, not to mention a new car. My point is that the western thinking with all of my respect - it doesn't include in it's thanking the majority of the people even inside in the rich countries. What is the issue - the car from 2000 until recent years are in general good in terms of safety, lifespan etc. However a new generation of cars has already been spawned with more tech, hybrids, turbos, cvts, expensive and complex suspension, infotainment systems, led lights, I am not even talking about the diesel engines related complications. These are a time bombs - to the people's wallets because if your fancy modern car is 10 years old and it is going to be a nightmare to repair, not to mention the depreciation value, on the other hand let's say you are lucky and you have the ability to buy a new car - then even if we don't count the depreciation value, the modern cars are like super expensive replaceable assets- like smartphones, but they cost 30-100K which is bad for everyone. That is why I am true fan to simple machines, gasoline engine, no turbo, manual, no hybrid, because these machines are the most reliable and after 20 years are still going to roll in Africa or India, but the most complex cars are going to end up in parts or idk to be honest. Sorry for the long comment, just my thoughts on this subject.
It's not really the miles, it's the age. Any 10-year-old car with current battery technology is going to need a new battery which for a Tesla it's mechanically totaled
czcams.com/video/pOQQTwYkg08/video.html
I had an XSE with the 4 cylinder engine. It averaged 37 mpg highway. Mixed over 30. In that case, the Camry had a lower cost of ownership.
And the hybrid does as well.
I have a 2004 1.2l Nissan to get to and from work. Purchased 4 years ago for a couple of thousand. Had a new set of rubber, that's it. Does 70mph, 61mpg and works when it snows.
Tesla's are for the idiot generation. Toys for man-babies to be thrown away after a couple of years and on to the next fad.
We are talking 1/3 the torque and power in that motor configuration to the Tesla, might as well be a Honda Civic then. States that clearly upfront.
@@infotrexwhat’s the point? It’s about cost of ownership not torque 🤷🏻♂️
cost of ownership of COMPARABLE vehicles@@zacheryhalbert
What does a replacement battery cost? And would it need to be replaced within your ten year period? And would you buy a second hand BEV approaching battery replacement time?
The batteries are made to last longer than the lifetime of the car so you should never need to replace the battery on your own. Let alone it coming with a 125k warranty on the battery (if it degrades more than 30%), there are multiple teslas reaching 200-500k miles with no need to replace them and they supercharge extremely frequently which is not as good for the battery
Thanks for the detailed information.
The most common Camry is the 4 cylinder, so $6k less to purchase not to mention better fuel economy. Did you forget to factor in battery replacement on the Tesla? Also, what about resale? I've heard battery replacement comes around 10 years and I expect that's going to greatly effect your resale at 10 years...
Battery replacement is only 10,000 to 15,000 dollars. Drop in the bucket! /s
@@basilman121 LMAO....$25K+$10K for a 10 YEAR OLD used car, good luck.
Should also take into account time wasted waiting for Tesla to get charged or even waiting in charging lines. Weren't there such times? Time is money.
They said the same thing about the prius battery. You dont see prius battery changes very often at 10 year or even 15 years. In face most have the battery fixed by swapping out the failed cells and not having to change the whole battery. We have a prius and its one of the best cars I've ever owned. Its cheap to operate and is very reliable.
y cat diy tesla@@Paiadakine
I'd love to see cost comparisons extrapolated out to the 20 year mark. Once you include battery replacements it'd swing the other way wildly. Camry's from the 90's are still running with little more than standard services. Not to mention as adoption for EV's increases so will the price of electricity.
I have a 2007 MINI Cooper S (not perceived as a reliable product) and other than standard maintenance and consumable (tires, blades, etc.) it has been dead reliable with zero engine problems. If you maintain a petrol vehicle it can last for decades - easily.
The falsehood with EVs is the operational life of the battery and we are seeing 7-10 year Teslas where the batteries have been replaced under warranty and post warranty. The batteries are not cheap nor the service to replace them. Rarely does a road object take out an engine BUT a road object hitting the underside of an EV CAN damage the pack. Unlike an engine (with replaceable components) there are few service companies that can go into a battery pack, find the bad cell(s), replace them, and seal the pack - with zero chance of a spontaneous combustion event in the future.
Petrol vehicles have had hundreds of years to build out design and maintenance best practices. Tesla EVs have fans who simply want to BELIEVE.
@@chrispnw2547and look at old Volvos that have been driving over 4 milion kilometers.
You can buy a nice house cheeper the a tesla. And just look how A lot of it destroys the environment just to make a battery. A battery that doesn't last in real cold, battery that breaks down due to moisture, etc
i still daily drive my 1978 landrover and still going strong
And a Camrys fuel tank is the same when it’s new as it is 30 years later. Those battery packs are going to be 50% or less by then.
I still see 1995 camrys on the road. You just cant kill those cars. And I am sure the highway miles are still around 30 mpg in those things.
you shoudn't use the goverment disc. in your comparation because it won't always be there. also what dose the weather affect the battery range?
Good video but whats the kelly blue book value of both after 5 years?
A few things:
The Camry fuel consumption should be lower considering you mentioned lots of highway driving
Camry should be cheaper to insure (easy to check prices)
Camry likely to burn fewer tyres due to lower mass
Need to account for resale value of each after your nominated period
Also Camry is not in model 3 class, Toyota corolla is more suitable.
@@factsnotfeelings3247 Or Prius... But in case of Corolla/Corolla Hybrid or Prius numbers will not be in favour for Tesla even in 10 years.
model 3 class is Camry@@factsnotfeelings3247
Right, he glossed over the insurance costs. $150 a month for the Tesla? That's highway robbery. That's insane.
Yup
I pay £290 a year to insure my.honda civic
To insure a Tesla it's £800 a year
I have Honda Civic for exactly 10 years now. No mechanical problems so far, just regular maintenance - costs me about 350USD/years on average (including oil, filters, tires, pads, rotors, battery, etc'). But I drive only about 10000km/year.
Surely insurance and registration is more than $350/yr.
@@cbkenison yes, we are low milage drivers and other discounts and get a great rate of $650/year on each car we have. Registration isn't much once the car is more than 3 years old.
what will be your cost to replace the battery pack?
what is the total impact on the environment from build to scrapping, when compared to an ice car?
You can change oils on your own. 5 qtz of full synthetic oil is ~$25, and the filter is $10. Other maintenance can also be done, DIY-style. Not the same story for Tesla, and lets hope that battery pack stay safe throughout the duration of ownership
Oil and filter is not that cheap where I'm at. In fact it's often cheaper to just get a shop to do it for you since they get volume discounts on the oil/filter and they give additional discounts to attract customers that it often brings it below cost. They do this hoping that the customer will buy additional services.
@@err_4O4 That used to be true where I live, but not anymore. $35-$40 for oil and filter are about right where I'm at. Geeze I remember when filters were $1 and really good oil on sale was $1-$1.25 a quart and better for engines than what you get now.
Who wants to buy a used car that will eventually require a battery replacement.
Also i can drive 1800 km on my two tanks. How many miles in front will i be after just one or two days driving.
Where the hell do you live? I just changed my oil with Mobil 1 synthetic and six quart plus the filter, was just shy of $60. It's $100 at my local oil change place.
@mjwbulich he drives a camry or a car that uses basic oil.
My car needs a certain oil.its 120 to 150 aud for 10l. 20 for air filter and 15 to 20 for oil filter.
If.i had a cheap 99 corolla it would cost fk all
One item you forgot to mention is the secondary market value for each vehicle, on the fifth anniversary. A quick and dirtly look seems to show that the price difference is about $7,000 in favor of a Tesla. Again no two experiences are equal, still an important metric
What about the battery? Will it need replacing over 10 years? Will the fact it might need replacing lower resale?
@@fredcook6385 It should last outlast most complex engines.
@@fredcook6385 I’m curious about the battery replacement too I’m guessing +10k
A lot of people liked that, but that’s not a good thing. It means you lost more value on the tesla than the Toyota (13000$ based on the values given)
@@jokulhaups309that’s a rather strange way to look at it. They were always comparing apples with oranges, but effectively the cost of the Camry was the ticket price plus the 5 years of gas and routine maintenance, just to enable a comparison. But the biggest difference is yet to come. Teslas (and EVs in general) are proving to age very well, but more to the point, over the next 5 years, the bottom will drop out of the second hand ICE car market as the auto industry goes through a massive transition.
What about the battery if it needs replacing?
When and how much will the battery replacement happen / cost?
How do you calculate time spent charging while waiting to be fully charged while away from home, compared to just filling up at a gas station? Also, you don't always have the luxury of just pulling up to a charge station and expecting to start charging, you have to wait your turn. So what is the value of your time? Also how many more overnights are spent on the road to get to that vacation spot?
Use your hourly rate you're paid at work.
What? When you go on vacation, you go rent a gas powered car, come on!
@@exee1 not sure what's the point of your comment. The video author clearly stated he charged his car at airbnbs, hotels, etc. That also means he drove his car to the destinations. And people who are thinking going electric, don't plan to rent. Otherwise it defeats the purpose of having a car.
I see Tesla ALL THE TIME. None are at charging stations, just like him they all charge at home, 4 of my 5 nearest neighbors have 1 and they all charge at home. Electricity is relatively cheap in my state since over 60% is from hydro.
@@PovilasPanavaswell as a bnb owner I don't appreciate ev drivers plugging in their car and assume that I will subsidise their road trip. It's like filling up an ice vehicle with the fuel jerry cans found at someones property. It's theft.
After about ten years you will likely have to replace the batteries. You should have figured in the cost of batteries and added a per year pro rate for them. That would increase the cost of the Tesla. Likely about $5000.00 over 5 years.
Where is everybody getting this stupid battery replacement interval. My car being a 100 mile car, so the battery gets charged and used twice as fast and degrades twice as fast is now 6 years old and 65k miles. Still gets 125+ miles every charge, more than the original EPA of 115 miles but a little less than 130 I used to get new. I expect that by the time this thing wears out, I will have saved the out the door dealership cost of $18k just in the difference of the price of gas alone. Tires cost the same and are the same tires and insurance is the same. Much of my driving was when I had enough solar on the house to run my car and my house, so almost free. I also got to charge for free at work for 3 years also. Many places I shopped at had free chargers, so I got some there also. If I add all those things up, my car is half paid for already. 2017 Ford Focus Electric has had zero maintenance so far besides I set of $600 tires. Should make it to 100,000 on this second set, the exact same set that a regular Focus would get.
@@lkeil84 blah, blah, blah...in the end the battery, if it's even still available, which 95% chance it wont be, is $15k-20k plus labor & taxes, and with increasing costs and demands could cost higher.
You're at 6 years, OP said 10 years, so you came on here WITH ZERO real ammo.
What's stupid is you saying your 6 year old car hasn't had a battery replacement so therefore his 10 year remark is invalid 🙄.
At some point they will remove the 'free charges' when enough users run up the companies electric bill.
It'll happen when too many bought into your example, bought EV, only to find they now have to pay for charges.
In 10 years of ownership you'll have an unrepairable paperweight, where an ICE or Hybrid can be repaired and kept running.
I see this channel has a video "UPDATE: It's Time to Replace My Tesla Model 3" in 1st channel comment, posted around the same time as this video we're commenting in.
Wonder why that is🤔..... let's go see.
@@surfersilver6610I really don't give a crap what you think, you are so wrong about the whole thing.
How soon do you need to replace the main batteries on the Tesla, and at what cost?
Just left California, supposed to be Shangri-la for electric vehicles, and my at home cost of electricity was $0.40/kwh. This adds $8559 to the Tesla cost. Gasoline cost was probably a dollar more per gallon, or $4615 additional. The obvious conclusion is that the car with the lowest total cost is whichever one you drive outside California.
CALI IS SHOT, THANKS TO GAVIN..
Another issue is temperature. In UK you are expected to loose 30% of battery capacity on cold day... keep in mind UK has mild climate. In colder part of europe you may go down to 40% of original battery capacity in cold winter weather. If you add cabin heating requirement... you must then make sure you have available charging point at work, otherwise you will need a lift back home ;)
Any sources for those numbers?
@@DrRestezi Display of Tesla Model S 2020 model
@@DrResteziLook it up 😂
And EV will catch on fire all the time like 1,000 times less per population than an ICE
energy efficiency also drops in ICE....
A very nice analysis thank you.
good video. Still, main problems with EVs are battery malfunctions, and bad resale perspectives. Thing is that most people are not driving new cars. And you have to be fairly risky person to chose 8 year old EV over a traditional car.
I'd take the risk to buy a cheap car...but EVs (generally) and Teslas (in particular) are DIY-hostile and Right to Repair-hostile. I'm a wrench, not a geek, and ICEs play to my skill set.
I think early OBD-II cars are the best trade off between technology and serviceability. Computers, yes, but all firewall-forward. None of that CANBUS malarkey.
Plus rust, most Tesla's are sub 10 years old. I love in Canada and about 1/3rd my repairs on my 20 year old Honda are rust.
What happens when the low hanging battery cover rusts over?
I want to see the data on 20 year old Tesla's
@michaelp4122 Teslas are made of aluminum- they don't really rust..
@@wattsyvfx A quick Google says that Tesla's are mostly made of steel, so yeah, they will rust. Tesla's motors are made of steel and copper, and the body is made of a blend of steel and aluminum. Only 410 lb of 4,800 lb of a model S is Aluminum (~8.5%).
There is more aluminum in a Ford F150 682 lb / 6,893 lb (~10%) and those rust.
I guarantee that most of the suspension components are made of steel to hold that massive weight, so you will spend more on control arms, ball joints, tie rods, springs, etc.
My error. The body panels are definitely aluminum, so the alone will address the a lot rust issue.t @@michaelp4122
Thanks for a great video. Well done on the comparison. The cost to replace the battery in the Tesla after it is out of warranty and the reliability of the Toyota to go well beyond 100,000 miles makes me like the Toyota. Carry On Sir!
Would I purchase an eight year old Tesla ? NO !
Would I purchase an eight year old Camry. YES!@@2pugman
Yeah, I've seen Toyotas go for a million miles... incredible. I believe the resale value is a must to fairly evaluate these cars, also, it's not fair to count the rebate, that will not always be available. Next, let's do the comparison for the working poor class of people (which are 90% of US and Canada). We can't afford those expensive Camry's, we buy the cheapest Corolla's for 1/2 this price and drive them for twice as long. They come out to just 20 cents per mile, not 54 cents!
Only thing, "our" government may (try to) force us to dump ICEs and buy EVs. Remember the "cash for clunkers?" That was Step 1.
My prius 2007 is now at 270k miles, no major issue
I have the same exact 2018 model 3,red also and about the same mileage.Never had any maintenace problems and they came to the house and replaced the 12 volt battery for free.Love this car..
imagine you live in a 3 decker house in Boston, no garage, no way to charge at home, Park on the street especially in Boston;s bitter winter, and how much do you pay to keep the battery car charged everyday. In old cities in the Northeast thisis reality for most people. Buy the Camry, have no range anxiety, buy gas everywhere, no wait, Compare a Toyota Prius and again the battery car loses.
Our car is gone because of the true cost, never again !!
Good comparison, it shows what I've been telling people for years: it takes 5 to 6 years of ownership to simply break even with electric vehicles (and solar power on homes). Now if you hit an exhaust pipe or large rock on the road, you may need to replace the whole battery pack because they are on the bottom of the vehicle... which will cost more than the car itself and insurance will write off the car. A bunch of people in the news lately are finding this out: two Hyundais and an Acura that I have seen in the past couple weeks. These vehicles were barely dented but the dealerships/insurance/manufacturers consider them a danger to drive. You don't have that problem with gas powered vehicles. Just fix it and go. Battery degradation is another issue over time with EVs, which gas powered vehicles don't suffer. A gas powered Camry will continue to get say 28 MPG for the life of it, even 30 years later. Evs won't, you will slowly lose the ability to 100% charge the vehicle. And finally, as others have mentioned, most EVs are depreciating in value dramatically in recent years, to the tune of being only worth half of what they were just a couple years ago. Teslas are one of the only EVs that doesn't suffer this problem. Rivian trucks, for example, sell for $100,000 and a year later I see them sell at auction for less than $70,000. Whereas my 2022 Kia was $40,000 new and now is still worth about $35,000 at a dealer, even after almost 20k miles. We are 20 years or more away from EVs being a good choice for the average person. Right now it is only good for upper middle class people that can take the risk and spend $50k on a vehicle plus change their whole life to accommodate a car. I will stick with my two minutes to refill and get back on the road. It uses the same fuel as my lawnmower, snow blower, chainsaw and our small tractor. I always have 5 gallons of the stuff at home if I need it.
Now if we could just fire all of congress and get people with a basic level of decency in there... Maybe we could keep our choice.
Planned obsolescence on steroids. I think I will keep my 53-year-old pickup.
Add in the need to buy "extras" such as jacking pads if you ever need to change a wheel. Almost $70 for a pack of four (from Tesla Model Accessories Australia), and our Tesla-owning neighbour didn't realise this until he needed them (whilst I was hunting around for a jacking point to help him get a wheel off for a tyre repair). Per "The Manual", damage caused by NOT using "approved pads" invalidates any warranty claims (on a $100,000 vehicle, mind you). Pity Tesla couldn't afford to include them, along with a spare wheel too.
There is no logic or reason to buy a a EV over CV. Even if you would live in a hot, sunny salt lake desert 500 miles from any other closest gas station, it would be idiotic to buy a electric car for those places to drive with powerful solar panel charging possibilities, because the car will likely get damaged in few years, and in 5-7 years you need new battery.
I do like idea of small electric scooters, and I mean proper ones, not the tiny wheeled ones, but like bikes. And only for adults and not for teens or young people. In other words really, for seniors to get around their towns and like when needed.
The whole electric vehicle trend is a scam, and there is enough fools to be sold with illusion that it is the advanced tech. Sadly they don't even realize that first cars were electric... Until cmbustion engine was invented to overcome the limitations (very capable even today's standards).
Excellent comment, very well said.
How long does the batter last and how much to replace?
The batter will only last until he gets a hit or the pitcher strikes him out.
Thanks for the calculations
A proper cost of ownership calculation should also have the depreciation added and to be very fair, an hourly rate for any time you was waiting for the Tesla to charge + any amusement costs during that time when compared to the time it takes to fill up a Camry and go...
hm this comment made me curios and i did some rough calculations
this comparison would give the tesla an even bigger advantage
since only 1821kWh were charged at a supercharger, if you take an average charging speed of 100kw (its capable of 250kw peak) this would take like 18.5h
for home charging you have to spend an extra like 15 seconds to plug in, with 28539kWh home charging and an average session of 45kWh that comes to 634 home charges, adding an extra 2.6h for a total amount of 21.1h
the camry used 17469L of fuel, assuming you fill up 40L at a time with an average gas station visit of 4.5 minutes (that does not include the way to the gas station) that comes to 32.75h spent getting gas
I live in CA and the current electricity rate is $0.32/kwh at the cheapest rate. If you use more than the "baseline" amount of electricity that cost goes up another $.10/kwh. So that would be a total different cost structure if you were CA based. Also, how much time did you spend charging your car when on a trip away from home vs time it would take to fill with gas on the Camry? Time is money.
If there's one thing CA is known for, it's cheap gas....lol. Also on trips most normal people who don't pee into bottles like to take a restroom break. Some even like to stop and grab a bite to eat or have a cup of coffee and stretch the legs. I've taken numerous 2-3k mile trips and charging hasn't noticeably added to my trip time.
Plus, most people use their cars to commute or run local errands. 95% of the time the car charges up at home. I never have to waste time driving to a gas station every week to pump gas, or get oil changes or wait in long lines to get emissions inspections every year like my state requires for non-EV cars. Time is money.
@@kenbob1071 My Toyota CR-V got 4.1 litres per 100 klicks. @ 1.75 per litre that is $7.18 per 100 klicks. With a range of 525 klicks it costs me $37.70 in fuel. A Tesla gets about 434 Klicks per charge @ 84Kwh. @ $0.32 per Kwh, that is $26.88 per charge or $32.52 for 525 klicks, a saving of $5.18 or .000986 cents per klick. I bought the CR-V for $34,000 and sold it 5 years later for $28,000.
So a plug in hybrid is still the best option. Charge it every day at home, and refill on gas on road trips. Prius and RAV4 have 64km (~40 mile) EV range, enough for most people daily.
I often do a 600km (370 mile) road trip with zero stops. I use the restroom when I arrive at my destination.
@@michaelp4122Well... I now got both - a 2013 Toyota Prius c and a 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV. The Chevrolet Bolt EUV sucks the root if driven long distance (55KwH battery), but I can comfortably charge it to 100% daily with an outdoor (in my driveway) regular 120 V wall plug - like for a lamp. It takes no time to charge and is cheap! My Bolt cost $36,500 with a $7,500 Efficiency Maine actual cash rebate - not a tax credit - which makes an EV more affordable for lower income folks. Otherwise I could in no way have afforded to buy this auto.
I have CZcams researched and believe that EV battery technology will get significantly more efficient in coming years. I actually believe that cities should promote EVs because emissions pollution causes cancer and respiratory disease over a lifetime of exposure. ICE vehicles are a health concern! But, I don't see EVs replacing ICE vehicles - at all! Maybe 10%? Certainly not more than 25% in the US! Presently it's a rich man's car.
Battery technology is definitely the way to go for cities. Long distance travel should revert back to rail!
of course, California is outlawing sales of new ICE cars, so the point is moot.
Good review, it would be interesting to also include depreciation rates for the two.
Keep in mind the Camry uses full synthetic oil now. Those usually run around $70-$80 now.
I have seen toyota s go to 3 to 6 hundred thousand miles. With out a problem let's see a ev with 300 thousand miles with the same battery. A friend just sold his truck with over 800 thousand miles . There a video of toyota buy one back with over a million miles on it. Let's see that on a ev. Dealership don't want evs on there lots. No resale value in them.
So the big gamble is how long will the battery last, how fast is it losing capacity ? This would reflect in its resale value. A comparison of resale values would have been helpful.
Exactly. NO battery now has unlimited time/capacity. Capacity will be lost exponentially and the battery will need to be replaced. This is the lions share of the cost of the car. Anyone buying as battery powered car right now, is brainless and they deserve all they get.
Actually it loses it logarithmically which is a huge difference.
It’s in the balance as the resale value has an effect. I have had my current car eleven years on a way lower mileage so the next five with your Tesla will be interesting. It looks like the Tesla will stay ahead until there are battery issues provided the Camry engine lasts. Toyota give 5 year 100,000 mile warranty in the UK on new cars. But you have to buy the service, usually 10-15000 miles or annual. A decent gasoline engine should do 250,000 okay especially with highway use
I have a 2016 Hyundai which I would need to spend about $10k on, due to Hyundai's terrible manufacturing issue. So even gasoline cars have really expensive problems part way through their life cycle.
P.s. This engine problem I'm having is a known fault with many of these Theta II engines. Because it's out of warranty, they will only cover the small block part. I gotta pay install fee and pay for new CAT which is blocked from it spitting oil out the exhaust
Most recent charts show exponential-decay of the degradation... it tapers off substantially as it ages.
Note that to install the outlet in your garage, you didn't need to have your service entrance upgraded. Many people do and that is a HEFTY fee.
good point, if you have to have a service performed because you do not have enough amperage, you are talking at least 2k, depending on the age of your home. Another thing about it is, you have to own a home, I think that has to be factored into the overall economics and value proposition, until there are charging stations, and enough of them in apartnement complexes, this is an economic non-starter.
@@haddiejonesyNot just that. Put 200 of these in each subdivision. What happens to grid from the local substation on down to the residence when it's a cold winter night, all the cars are charging and, at the same time, all the electric heaters and heat pumps are running because you're not allowed to have a natural gas or propane heating system? How much does THAT upgrade cost? Then cascade it upwards. The whole thing is insane. It will take 20 years to get to the point where it's tenable, even if we started in earnest today.
@@bwhog whoa, yeah rolling blackouts at night when the sun is down and cold, the opposite of summer where at least you wont die. What will happened then is more government spending to upgrade, thus more debt and higher taxes. I like this video because it gives a good value proposition for the tesla, which is a nice ride, but is new tech and with that comes buy in to be an early adpoter, but all that aside, mandating us to move to EVs is bullshit and economically foolish, plus, I still haven't seen proof that it would matter. All that climate shit has to come off the table, buy the car cause you like it and it makes your life easier, not because of a cause. Take viagra for instance, make a drug people want to take!
@@bwhog I usually charge at 1000w. You don't need a 250A supercharger at home.
You bought it buddy you better like it I just watched a video today that in the cold weather they get half of the mileage that they’re predicted to get and then an hour to charge them you can keep it enjoy yourself. Great cars as long as the power don’t go out get a grip.
Don’t know why I bothered to watch this. My last car was a high mileage Suzuki wagon that I bought for just under $1000. I put about 120k miles on it in a little over 3 years and resold it for $700, only because 5th gear synchronizer was shot. It got maybe 35 mpg, which more than compensated for the inconvenience of not having a/c for the last year of use. I changed the oil and brake pads myself and put a new battery in it. I’m pretty sure my total costs to drive it were significantly less than the depreciation on either the Tesla or the Camry in 3 years.
Thanks for the comparison. We all do pay taxes to support the EV rebates which are significant. The extra time spent recharging (or waiting to recharge) vs. refueling is obviously very large. If your time is worth nothing it might not matter, but to those of us whose time is limited and valuable, it is a significant an costly detriment.
thats not a really accurate perception. evs recharge typically at home, and you can do this every day, so if you aren't taking the car on a lot of long trips, the time cost is less than a fueled car (because you have to take that car to a gas station). if you are driving cross country, then you are correct, but as most people drive less than the battery range everyday, the time difference is not what you say
@@kenzothecornishTV 100%
It wasn't a rebate, it was a non refundable credit
After 2.5 years I saved a lot of time compare to driving an ice car. With the average 1000 miles/month, I needed 4 refueling monthly. Not counting the travel to the gas station and from, I normally spent an average of 7 minutes for refueling. Getting in and out, waiting for the fuel, traffic etc. So a weekly 6 minutes or 364 minutes or little over 6 hours annually saved. Not sure why you think EV's need more time, since they come fully charged every morning. Simply when you park at night, you plug it in and when its time to leave, its fully charged. I have not been to a gas station in 2.5 years and used public charging around times - all were free and gave me free parking as well. I never needed the public charging but went to a concert and parking was $25 or Free with charging in an EV spot. I used it. Went to Lake Lure to kayak. Parking again was free and came with a free ev charger. I spent 5h at the lake and car recharged to 100%. Other times it was in parking garages or other free places. Not once I needed to charge but it was free, so I used it. Never spent a minute waiting for recharging. 2.5 years later and 31k miles later, it was the best decision to buy an EV. Not only its quicker and better for city driving, it is quieter and much more relaxing drive. If price would be more I would still chose EV's for the comfort and speed. My EV is an older model and has a lower range than newer EV's but for what we used it - commute, kids school runs, etc. etc. Perfect. The car has 64k miles and we bought it used with 33k miles. Battery health is around 95% which is stellar. Most ICE car use more then 5% HP at 60k+ miles. I think you need to try EV's before you make a opinion about them. I was very skeptical and used to hate them. So I went out and bought one. I can't say they are bad if I don't try them, right ? Well, not only it changed me, but changed my wife too. Neither of us would go back to ICE. EV's are simply better for the every day driving. For the track I have an old BMW M3 and for a mountain runs, a convertible. They have their purpose but I see myself more and more ignoring them and just hopping into the EV. So easy to drive them, acceleration is amazing, the entire car is a breeze. Give the EV's a chance before you write them off. Rent one for a few days. I guarantee you will realize how good they are !
90% of people charge the battery at home at night, you only stop when traveling
The elephant in the EV room that seems to get ignored too often in these cost per mile (CPM) comparisons is the battery replacement cost, which pushes CPM for EVs way over that of ICE. Because of this EVs are still just expensive status symbols that are neither green or cost efficient... not yet.
I would be hesitant to buy a used EV since the current buyers believe that there is no maintenance on them. They tend to never:
- check or service the brakes which is even more important on an EV as they do not get used much due to regenerative braking. This includes not changing brake fluid.
- check or service oil. Yes there is oil in the gear boxes of electric cars and yes this oil does need to be changed. Not that current EV owners would
- check or service fluids. EV coolant also needs changing. If not pumps and valves etc are at greater risk especially in far more complicated EV coolant systems
- inspect and service all the other typical car related items that will fail at the same rate as any other car regardless of EV or ICE…maybe more so as EVs are heavier than their ICE counterpart
How is your battery life affected over those 10 years and how much will it cost to replace the battery pack if and when it will no longer hold a charge.
Great video 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 , Now how much oil does it take to build each , and which affects the worldly environment
The Camry would be far easier to sell after 5 years, would depreciate far less and if the engine and/or the transmission died out of warranty, it would cost a the most $5000 to fix. The Camry is a far better spend, even if gas prices were double. Plus, no range and charging issues.
Do Not forget to thank all of us, that cannot afford a new car, for the tax credits you get on your EV and the charging station in your garage and the supercharger stations around the country that we will all be paying for and only the well off will use.
Apart from the fact the 5 years old Toyota will attract far more potential buyers than a Tesla 🤔, seriously who in their right mind will buy a 5 years old Tesla with 120,000 miles knowing well the repair bills could be enormous 🥶…Over 10 years perhaps the write down costs may seem better but buying a Tesla from an obnoxious fascist kkk**t like Musk would not be for me…
yup. this bastige also replaced his tesla quickly, to avoid the battery issues
I had a toyota RAV4 and the transmission went out at 150,000 miles. I traded it in but lost thousands. Still cheaper than a battery pack though. One thing that wasn't mentioned was the CO2 quotient. With renewable energy making up more and more of the grid, eventually, the CO2 emissions from an electric car will be only in the extraction of raw materials...Gas car will have similar plus all the CO2 emitted. Rare earth metals, however, for batteries are an issue.
Did you calculate the cost to replace the batteries?
Would you need to replace the battery after 8 years?
Great video. But you're forgetting one important factor in your comparison. What was the used price of the cars after 5 years? You need to include that loss in value in your calculations.
Nah.
He probably did that, but decided that would blow the comparison.
and insurance
I bought a used Jaguar XJ four years ago. The car is a top model Portfolio with a 3ltr diesel engine, it averages 40mpg with upto 54mpg on a motorway. It has cost me £220 for each annual service, two rear tyres, rear brake pads and a small battery. A hell of a lot less to run tan a brand new problematic Tesla!
Without the subsidy the case would be different...plus How can you estimate cost without allowing for depreciation ?
How was the energy consumption determined? Was this from the car or charger? In my experience the charger consumption is about 10% more than the vehicle reports.
Not sure I would trust Tesla's self reporting. They are known to giver optimistic estimates on a full charge, so I am in no doubt they would tweak the numbers to make their cars seem more efficient.(Diesel-gate anyone??)
@@Cheepchipsable The car displays range based on the EPA estimates, which are optimistic. However, it also records how much energy it's actually using and I believe that is pretty accurate.
Although Tesla made leaps since then, I've read a similar article in 2018 comparing a 2013 Tesla (I think) and a 1997 (or so) Mercedes (and I don't remember the model, but it was extremely popular with taxi drivers). The Tesla by then had to have the battery changed twice and the complete drive train once, within 300k kilometers (what is that, something like 186k US miles?). Meanwhile, those Mercedes cars were usually resold to Africa after something like 800k km (500k mi) and they were actually able to track some of them - still making rounds in 2018 with 1,7 MILLION km (something over 1 million mi) with only one major engine service (not an exchange of the whole thing) between 1,2 and 1,5 million kilometers. And those cars are probably being used somewhere in Africa to this day. Now, obviously, that's not something every single combustion engine car is capable of, but at the same time it's something an EV won't be capable of for the next century or so. So the only way they can become more popular than normal cars at this point is if they become significantly cheaper than them (and that's not happening anytime soon). Or they are forced onto us - which is happening, but obviously not alright. Every piece of technology became popular because it was superior to whatever has been used until that point. EVs might eventually proove to be that, but not sooner than in a few decades. And that's the main difference.
you forgot one important thing. Most combustion engine cars will be hybrids and will have a small battery (even if charged from combustion engine). Secondly, the car breaks usually not because of the engine, but everything else. And new cars has so much electronics and features, and any of them not working causes issues, but is very expensive to fix. I'm saying that even "normal" cars these day suffer from the same nonsense as electric. All those issues like in Tesla, the door handle not working, the window button not working, the electric port not opening. All these problems exists in all the new cars. Well, except the big battery part. No one will ever produce anything like that Mercedes. All cars produced for 5-10 years, after that repair costs most of the time will be too high, and cheaper to buy a new car.
I mean I had Alfa Romeo from 2003, and it took multiple shops to figure out why it would randomly not start, and I did brought it to Alfa Romeo dealership as well, but they couldn't tell. At the end it was just a sensor (which even showed up in error log! However, once cleaned it would not appear in error for some time, thus everyone assumed it's random error and not the reason for the car to not start. And of course, car would always start when bringing to the shop, thus the error wouldn't appear until later). And sensors are expensive.
Anyway, moral of the story, engines don't fail if maintained, everything else fails, and everything else doesn't differ much between electric or not.
So, we have the problem of consumerism. We want to consume and get the shiny thing now (with features we already know will reduce longevity, and we can afford, and we don't care about longevity enough). Companies also want to make money, so they want to make it as cheap as possible which means it will last only through warranty and maybe tiny bit more, but not any longer than that.
P.S. it's not only a car problem. All our things are like that be it phones, laptops, washing machines, fridges, etc
There is no drive train on a Tesla and the Model S were Generation 1/2 batteries, we are now in Generation 3/4/5 and LFP is a new game changer.
I want to know how much of the cost for your ev battery replacement out of warranty compared to a gas vehicle battery . Which vehicle wins on ownership cost over the five years
Ok, supercharging is not free anymore to begin with and the lack of resale value listed, I think it’s just ridiculous to go electric especially considering the initial investment. I am really tired of hearing about what a great idea going electric is. Lack of infrastructure, particularly as far as capacity goes, and the lack of charging stations that work, the cost of battery replacement and then there’s the fires… I have spoken to several current and former owners of EVs and to a man, they would never have another one.
It all comes down to how long it takes to refuel the vehicle. I have a 2020 Honda Accord, average 35 to 40 MPG.
I can get gas at Wawa in 5 minutes and have over a 500 mile range. If the car can be "refueled' in 5 minutes at that range, then we can talk.
I think if you use the car on a daily basis to commute it would probably be cheaper to operate at this time. However if your retired like I am, the car sits for days at a time. So much for the first 5 years when repairs and depreciation are low. I expect the EV resale value will be determined by the battery, where good maintenance on the Toyota will likely give a better return after 10 or 15 years. EV insurance is also high cost, and I suspect your home fire insurance will increase with the age of the EV.
It is not only EV insurance that is increasing. As an ICE driver you can have an accident with an EV and you are responsible for the collision. Now your company has to pay for that new battery. With more and more electric cars on the road, soon most of us will no longer be able to afford that insurance.
Just buy a cheaper Toyota, even a hybrid. The battery cost on the Tesla will be astronomical and you can't avoid it even with low mileage. Literally you can run a petrol car for HALF the cost of this Tesla, sold by a practical nazi.
What is the cost of battery replacement and how often? This was not added to your cost.
I love the "million" mile Tesla model S articles out there. Guy had 14 motor replacements 😂. That is wild.
Thanks, Andy. One question comes to mind: what about the cost for collision repairs? Comparing the same type of damage, (impact speed, angle, etc) - what are the costs to restore the vehicle? Any ideas on this?
They are a lot more on a Tesla. When the battery cell is compromised you basically have a write off in an EV.
@@michaelp4122 you can say the same for an engine if that gets damaged... finding an accurate answer to this question would probably require some academic research, as you have a lot of data points to find and factor in (e.g. are ev drivers as equally likely to get into accidents, the average value of the car when it has one, ect)
@@kenzothecornishTVThis isn't true for 2 reasons.
1. An EV battery is very low, stretch the entire length of the car and more likely to get damaged. Engines are usually on top of the axles, so you can't bottom out and damage an engine like you can an EV battery.
2. ICE engines are multi-component where as an EV cell has a single casing. You break a radiator on an engine, that's $1,000, but if you break the cooling on an EV that's considerably more.
Plus EV repairs will take a lot longer, not as many spare EV parts (even stuff like bumpers) as there are for ICE cars, so you will need a rental car for longer.
@@michaelp4122 that's not what I said, I said the car is written off if the engine is damaged, not that it is easier to damage them. Anyway, my point is the answer to this question is not sinply:ev cars are more expensive to fix therefore the costs are higher. Some more examples, ev drivers could be more or less likely to be in collisions, or perhaps have collisions at higher/lower speeds. So again, my point: unless you have someone whose job it is to investigate this stuff and can provide actual data points give an answer, it's useless speculation to say what is the case...
@@kenzothecornishTVOk, well in context to the original point, if an ICE motor is in a safe spot above the axle and an EV battery is in a vulnerable area between the axles and low, then an EV will cost more to repair simply because it will be damaged more easily (plus spare parts are more rare).
You can bottom out an ICE car and maybe see damage to the exhaust pipe, or do a fender bender and break a radiator, but in an EV that same collision could be a write off to the $20,000 battery.
Plus EV fires are more likely to be writen off than in ICE cars as lithium fires cannot be extinguished with water. ICE batteries are still acid based galvanic cells, and can be put out with water. Google Tesla fires and see some aftermath photos on new cars.
Thus EV's are more expensive to repair.
Your question should be "How much more expensive are EV's to repair" and to that I have the same conclusion. We need data, and there are very few EV's over 10 years old.
For me, the big difference would be resale after 5 years. The Camry would fetch a good resale price. I think people would be worried about replacing the battery on the Tesla. I think your comparison must take this into consideration. I also noticed you had a lot of little repairs that I have never experienced with a Honda. I have bought two brand new Honda vehicles.
@viper90 Honda used to be the best. Not so good any more.
Our truck needed a new transmission costing over $5000. We had a fall season where repairs cost $6000. First 4 years were excellent. These are not issued for Teslas and most stats show batteries being quite reliable.
@@abigmonkeyforme same here, 18 year old Toyota with every original part except fluids, tires and front brake pads. Nothing has worn out yet And it "recharges" in 49 seconds at my Sunoco station (I timed it!) and no matter how many times I "recharge" it, the gas tank refuses to wear out.
A tesla battery costs what 20k? After 350,000 miles. You need an entire new car after that if its gas powered. So there is $30k-40k for the car.
@@billysonlinesurveychannel8247 am ev batt lasts 350,000 miles??? show me one.
You've probably reached the half life for the batteries. You forgot to include those costs in your breakdown...
Pretty slick how you slid into the commercial.
A good comparison of what happens if all goes well (which is what most of us experience). Maybe you should have deducted the residual value of the car now but I doubt that would have changed much.
However, what is hitting the news recently is what happens in the event of a collision - with some horror stories like $60k (CDN) for a new battery after quite minor impact damage to the battery protection tray (from simply driving over a piece of rubble on the road) - and knock on stories of massive increases to insurance on EVs.
If you factor in the purchase price difference and invested the difference at say 5% compounding over 5 years the the Camry wins hands down and in twenty years will still be a useful vehicle that has some value.
You will have to reduce your initial investment account earning 5% by oil changes, gasoline purchases, new brakes, engine coolant flush, Transmission flush and fluid replace, and at the end of the 5 years you will likely have only penies left in the investment account pending price of gasoline and how many times you had to wait a dealership to get the car back or take a rental out.
Good video, thanks for sharing. Model 3 prices have come way down, the model 3 I bought in 23, cost me about 47k minus 11k(7.5 Fed + 3.5 MA) rebates.
You drive a lot of miles, so you can probably provide a well-informed answer: What's your preference for tires? I need to replace the ones on my Chevy Volt, and I'm trying to balance cost, mileage (MPGe), durability, and noise. Even 14 years after the Volt arrived and 12 of Tesla sedans, there is almost zero info about the combination of these. Especially road noise. Whether you've got a rumbling V8 or a high-rev 4-cylinder, the engine always seems to loudest factor on an ICE car. Is there anything to compare to taking your EV over a stretch of newly paved road? Maybe adding some Herman's Hermits on the radio (arcane reference).
So, are you pleased with the ones you have now (is it the Vredesteins?), and have you used others? Thanks for any info you have.
Curious. For long road trips, how long does it take to fully recharge a Tesla? One can fill a gas tank in five minutes.
Yep! What is the cost of LOST TIME that you cannot get back.
@@surfersilver6610 Yep, we just made a long road trip in our 2006 Sienna minivan. Generally good mileage on the highway. About 5000 miles round trip and it came through strong the whole way. Yellowstone, Utah, Grand Canyon, swing down to Houston. I don't think we could have done this in an EV.
About 20min which is OK. We use the restroom and eat a snack from our coole
@@Toro-fz9il cost 3 times as much to recharge on the road and not home...
20-25 minutes
Id be interested in knowing the depreciation costs of your car verses the Camry over the 5 year period. It would give a fairer view of ownership costs.
Depreciation is only an issue if you behave like folks in the 1960s who replaced their cars every 3 ~ 5 years. I'm now 75, and have owned only three cars in my life. My brand-new 1975 Honda Civic CVCC [the expensive model with the then-big engine] cost me $4990 Canadian dollars in mid-1975. It lasted 13 years, replaced in 1988 with with a $13,000 Mazda 323, which I owned for 22 years. My wife & I now own a 2007 Honda Fit [A legacy from one of her aunts] which is very low mileage - we now drive less than 1500 km/year. Who cares about depreciation?
@@jrb_sland What planet do you live on? People replace their cars more now than at any point in history.
@@jrb_sland Thanks Good Buddy. I live in New Zealand and we try to look after our cars here. (No salt on the roads ever, helps). My previous car was a rare 1986 model JDM Honda City cabrio convertible. I bought it when it was already 22 years old and with an unknown kmilage as the 5 digit odometer had already been around the clock an unknown number of times.
I had that car for 9 years as my daily driver, having repairs done as necessary. The vinyl roof looked faded but was waterproof and even the air-con still worked on the old type refrigerant gas which kills the dolphins and whales !
In 2017 with the car by then 31 years old, I sold the car to some guy, I nearly cried as he drove away in it. Bought by him as a project, he later did remove the, by then very tired engine, (compressions ran about 65 to 70 psi) and made it into an EV (it cost him double the price of buying a used Nissan Leaf).
My mum had bought a new Suzuki 5 door 5 seater hatchback, the tiny 1,000cc engine in 2002. initially I gritted my teeth at the shocking amount of money in DEPRECIATION at the time. However now we look back, 20 plus years on, that car still does, almost look and go as good as brand new, and even the paint is almost like new (yes it parks outside, since 2008).
After the original 7 years, yes 7 years Suzuki Dealer provided, no extra cost, warranty and free servicing including free oil changes, tyres and wiper blades expired, I have done some minor servicing myself and paid for a handful of other small jobs occasionally. (We have mandatory annual inspections here). It is still "almost like new" except for some tiny blemishes in the paint. Ya gotta love those Japanese built Suzukis, mate !
Note in 2017, I bought as a replacement car, a 2001 Peugeot Convertible. As a then 16-year-old car, I bought it from a dealer for approx one tenth of it's original new car price. ie a "depreciation" discount of about 90% on the new car price. (An HKDM import), it was not quite in "as new" condition,. I fixed a few small things myself and sent it in to have some other things sorted. I have been thrilled with it ever since, and I'll gladly take the 90% discount on the new car price, thankyouverymuch.
Looking after a car and then getting about 10 or 20 years use from that car, means you simply don't care about any "depreciation" amount.
@@jrb_sland Rechargeable batteries have a life span. Once hit the run time becomes much shorter. If cells fail, the entire pack needs replacement. As such 'depreciation' needs to include battery life.
Currently replacement packs can cost more than the initial purchase price.
@@jo2lovid Fair enough. But in the intervening 8~10 years of warranted battery life from most manufacturers I'm optimistic that better batteries will come into existence at much lower prices. Maybe I'm naive - but I'm smart enough to know that I cannot predict the future, so all I can do is wait & see...
I’ve bought cabin air filters and 1 set of tires in 5 years for our m3 dual motor. Paid 200 to have outlet installed.
Had a 12 volt battery and upper rear door liner replaced under warranty. We have Solar on our home so we don’t pay for electricity to charge.
How long does the battery last in an electric vehicle? What is the cost to replace it? Are they really catching fire? These are my concerns!
When you have an accident, you will realize the difference in repair cost & repair time. I find EVs have very high cost if repair and may take months. Repairs for gas cars can be done everywhere and are much cheaper.
I have similar thoughts to others here, you need to also factor in the depreciation cost for both vehicles. This is a real cost at disposal. The significant pending costs of battery replacement and engine recondition among other things will increase that as the mileage approaches those events for each vehicle.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Depreciation in the #1 cost in vehicle ownership.
I was thinking at 120,000 miles, replacing the battery is not far in his future - and they are expensive! I think his happy face may not be so happy.
@@wildbikerbill6530 not only the battery itself but the electric motor on a battery car. It is a worthless Comparison. You ask people have knowledge about car. They all pick the Camry.
Yes, people keep talking about cost of gasoline, but the cost of gas is almost irrelevant for a typical car, it's really the cost of depreciation.
And be honest: if you had to pick a 6 year old Tesla versus a 6 year old Camry/Accord, you know which one you'd take.
@@teekay_1 they all take Camry and accord those cars if you know how to take care . They will last 40 years. Tesla after the warranty over is heading to the junkyard