Valve Couldn't Be Bothered With Team Fortress 2
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Team Fortress 2 players don't think they're being treated reasonably - they're clearly correct.
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Sources:
save.tf/
x.com/TeamFortress/status/152...
www.404media.co/team-fortress... - Hry
![The Complexities of Valve's Corporate Hierarchy and the TF2 Bot Crisis // [Game Designer Explains]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Rt1-IMmnQVA/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Complexities of Valve's Corporate Hierarchy and the TF2 Bot Crisis // [Game Designer Explains]](/img/tr.png)
It should also be remembered that, with the actions of bot hosters at times being genuinely illegal, Valve absolutely has the authority to go after these bot hosters through legal means, but instead reserves that course of action to take down community projects trying to breathe new life into the game.
The fbi got involved because bot hosters are spreading Chesse Pizza
perfect freedom. yahoooo
you were right in the first half, however, valve only ever took down the tf2 source 2 project (at least from my knowledge) and thats because they reused assets. the portal 64 project wasnt taken down by valve, they just advised the creators to take it down because of nintendo
edit: no, i am not a valve fanboy. thought i should clarify
@@festerma5076Not just TF2 Source 2, but also Contractors TF2 mod, and also copyright striked CZcamsrs who made videos on it
A lot of bot hosters are in Russia and unless they harm a Russian citizen with their cybercrime, the Russian government won't arrest them
"Our anticheat is too outdated and doesnt work. It is killing one of games"
"lets just make a new game"
"with the same anticheat?"
"yes"
"how does this fix anything?"
"hehe money printer go brrr"
Yeaah...I guarantee you deadlocked will be review bombed with stuff like "Tf2 died for this garbage?"
@@CursedMoistMan690 if they release it without fixing tf2 I'm uninstalling steam and getting my games from a diff source.
@@MarikoftheShadows complete fair
@@CursedMoistMan690 and those reviews will be removed, because they have nothing to do with the game.
@@MarikoftheShadows And if a game that is good and you want to play isn't on Steam ? Then what ? You're just not going to buy it for the sake of using whatever is on Epic or EA's own storefront ? I get what you mean, but I don't think you realize how important Steam is for PC gaming.
Very pleasant surprise! Thanks for covering this Bellular, the more eyes we get on this, the better.
you are a goat for what you're doing, tf2 needs to survive, don't let that masterpiece die
Can i just add bellular said 20 years, tf2 came out in 2007 not 2004
Nothing's going to happen. Valve just don't wants to support this 17 year old game anymore, that's it. What we might get is them shutting down the official servers and formally killing TF2 lol
what valve is doing is absolutely unacceptable. thank you for bringing us together to fix it
@@venomousbook he said approaching 20 years so its still accurate
Valve: We hear you!
Community: No, no you don't, that's the problem. 🤦♀
"We hear you! ...Or at least we think we do!"
They hear the community, but that's it. Only hear. 🤣
they hear us, they arent listening though
@@gladiuslupus pretend*
"We here you! We're just not listening!"
Important Note on Megascatterbomb
the guy actually is spearheading a network allowing easy tracking of the bots hence why the bot owners are making life harder on him than normal.
They even sent a bomb threat to a nearby school in his LEGAL NAME.
nah this is just pure hatred at this point☠
At what point in your life do you have to be in to do the most pathetic shit
@@shiv-ud1bu True Im just sharing what started that fire.
@@pneumon6990 Not good I'd imagine
Its a shame a game that was a large part of shaping internet culture over a decade ago, has to be abandoned and review bombed just because valve doesn't care anymore
the game is 17 of course main support will be cut
@@sansanimzisnotrealanymorethen shut down the servers instead of profiting from.the game and pretending that it's being updates
@@IAm-zo1bo yes but by shutting down the servers that would scare cs2 players into stopping buying things because to shut one game's item servers, yes while the game is old, some gamers would realize their game wont last forever, and they wont be able to play their silly little valve game until their 50
@@sansanimzisnotrealanymoreexactly, if they don’t want to shut down the servers and face all the consequences of that, they should at least make sure their product is working as intended! Because people are spending money on it still and it’s still making money! That is literally the minimum they should be doing, but they don’t. The age of the game is irrelevant if there is still transactional history occurring
@@thesaltyduckling80 tf2 was originally made with community servers in mind, it was intended for community servers. would you say a game should still have updates 50 years after release just because you have to pay for it and ppl still play it?
Deadlock will be infested with cheaters and aimbots in the first week if not day 1.
Mark my words.
apparently deadlock LITERALLY ALREADY HAS CHEATS 💀
IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN ANNOUNCED YET XD
bots for sure its a valve game with drops so ye
If their new baby gets infested right away, then Valve will actually do something, and hopefully that could lead to a solution regarding TF2.
pretty much same as overwatch 2 case
@@sarul98 Personally I havent met with cheaters
Paul Tassi over at Forbes wrote an article just over a month back with a title that fits here and still rings true:
"Steam Reviews Are A Weapon, But One Of The Only Ones Players Can Wield"
Ones? Mean some. English não é Portuguése.
@@MaoRatto there is nothing wrong with what he wrote, where is the portuguese?
Cool idea, until Valve decides to imploment some kind of anti-review spam thing by deeming it "necessary".
Except if the company doesn't care, then it only negatively affects the game's growth instead.
@@JohnPedra The lack of apostrophe makes my eyes read " unas, umas, une ( italiano ) "I don't think of the sound when writing in English.
For a game that makes them as much money as it does... they should have more then half a dev working on it
I'm pretty sure new CS2 case makes much more money than TF2 made in years. Looking at that I think everyone knows where Valve should focus more, and to remind CS2 barely gets updates and fixes too :D
@@GFBunnyHopER isnt it also still missing half the content that we had with cs:go?
@@XRichardUptonPickman no I believe it has most just missing some maps
@@shadowlordalphait’s also missing a working anticheat
@@shadowlordalpha Did they add back war games and danger zone? im not following every update so its possible.
we don't just need a fix, we need compensation, all of us, for this nightmare
As someone who also played the game on the Orange Box back when I got it as a present in June 2008, it’s great to see a fellow veteran calling Valve out for their negligence on TF2.
imagine calling youself a veteran over a game
@@rundown132well, there is veterans of games, or in the other meanings ogs or old's. Yea, its reasonable to call themselves veterans, cuz they saw shit that happend to they loved games
@@rundown132stand back guys we’ve got an absolute hard geezer over here
I got in Orange Box March 2008. Haven't regretted spending a single hour of my 6.7K hours total on this game. Great memories, although the golden ages are certainly long past now.
@@JeffarryLounder who plays this game out of nostalgia. lmao
Remember when we thought Valve's lack of a rigid leadership structure made them agile and creative? The flaws are really shining through these days.
I think even valve axed that policy about half a decade ago, meaning it’s no excuse for their negligence. They don’t want to do “treadmill work” of keeping up with hackers and updating anti-cheat but their net worth is about 7 million. It’s a crap excuse
It's not about the money, it's about the manpower. Valve is a very small company in terms of how many people actually work in it, so ofc they have to either be spread thin or pile on the most profitable product now (CS2).
@@nemynoodl3 Considering some sources say they are the most profitable company per employee in America, they can certainly afford to bring on more people to support their games.
Considering Valve only gets (or so claims) the best of the best people to come on board, that's very unlikely. Contracting a 3rd party is more feasible, but Valve also likes to have control over their products, so that's probably out of the window as well.
Gaben checked out years ago
just cause u mentioned it... helldivers 2 STILL hasnt fixed the PSN requirements/ 170+ countries in exile after purchase. not to mention going over a month without fixing things that have now been broke longer then they worked.
There is an big update planned for next week. As for the blocking of places that is on sony. So dont go after the devs for that please.
@@XRichardUptonPickman stating facts is now blaming the devs? mmmk, and yea i guess you can believe the meme/ new way of patch notes? in leu of actual action
@@Nate-bc1el And they implied that Sony's bigwigs developed it too since it was Sony that got bitched at when the fiasco happened.
@@Nate-bc1elTheyre right? the devs of helldivers literally can’t do anything about that because that’s a Sony leader ship issue
@@theblackoutexplorer2658 devs knew about PSN requirements. They were silent, and never said to the community that PSN registration will be necessary in the short future
It’s incredible really, valve makes a live service game but can’t be fucked to do the “treadmill work” of keeping it playable, and now are making a new live service game, without proving they can maintain it.
Oooh GOOD POINT. What stops the bot hosters just making cheats for Deadlock??
it's 17 years old man... youd be hard pressed to find any 17 year old live service game that still gets any kind of attention
@@poyloos4834 well the issue is that it’s earning them a TON of money still and they’re actively monetizing it, AND with the track record they have no one will (hopefully) trust them to make a new live service game because it’ll have the same fate
@@epicsandvich014 disregarding the bot crisis, in the event they officially pulled support, would you also want them to shut down the mann co store, mvm, crates/keys, and the community market? Because that’s what they’d have to do in order to stop profiting off of tf2. It’s a silly argument. The owners of games are entitled to make money off their product as long as it is on the market. It is up to the consumer whether or not they buy it, but in an ideal world where the bot crisis is solved and then they pull official support (pronouncing it a dead game) would you be okay with them making money off of their 17 year old game, because I certainly would be
@@poyloos4834 well the issue with them pulling support is logistically they cant due to the economy its built up, completely getting rid of the tf2 economy by completely pulling support for tf2 would effect not only other valve run games like CS2 and Dota2, but the entire steam community market as a whole
by showing that even with all the "investment" they have in one trade economy can just be thrown away without any recourse, it will make EVERY steam trade economy lose faith so hard it would completely destroy those markets
and sure, you might argue they can just leave tf2 to rot but they cant really do that either, since in order to have the ability to trade and for items in general to work it does require regular server maintenance on those aspects, its why every week the item servers go down for a time
This is not only for TF2, this can happen to any valve game, and it's dangerous stuff.
Me when i don't let an old crusty game consume my entire life:
@@tedtheodore5715 I forgot to laugh
TF2's situation is the online-game equivalent of the "San Francisco is full of human poop and nobody is taking initiative about it" problem.
So, how many hours until the usual removal of negative reviews for daring to... accurately review the game?
They always remove negative reviews as "review bombing" if there's an issue with a game so most likely soon
Hours, you say? We may remove the reviews when valve fix the problem, but that could take Years, actually 😅
That's a feature that developers' requested. Valve's developers know better than to abuse it.
@@XxguaxinimxX. I think the OP was referring to Valve employees, not the community
@@akatsukicloak Afaik it isn't actual removing review, but making them not count towards the score and having a disclaimer that "reviews in this period were made due to factors outside the game itself" or something like that. So people would still be able to read it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Reminder: this all started in 2015/2016. Valve started porting over a bunch of stuff from CSGO with the mindset "if it worked there, it will work here."
Some people say “Oh, the game is old. Valve doesn’t need to do anything.” Completely forgetting there are literal millions in the TF2 market and they still are selling keys/ items. They have an obligation to fix it.
Oh what a shame it would be if people felt so betrayed by this lack of accountability from Valve to the point they bought Deadlock, left a negative review, then requested a refund. That would be a huuuuge shame.
fun fact:the bot host(some bot host) have started to sell chese pizza trought the chat.
We actually do know how many bots there are by the way. Zesty Jesus had a couple of very thorough videos on it. At least 70% of player counts are bots. I'm pretty sure it's that information that sparked this second campaign.
Per another CZcamsr's (Zesty Jesus) investigations, there is around 60 thousand bots active at any one time (more during the holidays or freshly after new updates - with only a fraction being the hacking, match-disruptive variety, the rest idling in the menus and private servers for free items), with around only 20k actual concurrent human players.
Don't updates tend to break the bots?
@@jollygrapefruit786What updates?
@jollygrapefruit786 with there source code leaked it dosnt matter
and im one those human players i promise
Typical games journo, not doing research
That's what I've never understood about Valve. They have the financial pocket-change to support TF2, practically pennies compared to what they make annually so why have they seemingly refused to do anything for years?
Contract out a studio, do literally anything other than kill the game by continuing to turn a blindeye to a problem that they're entirely responsible for because its their goddamn product!
Either Valve fixes the game or gamers will fix the review score. simple as.
I like the overwhelming negetive to stay Forever
And review bombing a 20 year old game that is free to play to begin with means what to the largest money maker in the history of gaming ?
What if they don’t care bro. Did you ever think of that
@@seasn5553 Better to do something than nothing at all.
@@seasn5553 Such an ignorant response lmao. We did, and that's the core issue that lead to all of this. It's because valve just doesn't care, and the community is rightfully speaking out because of it.
Deadlock is going to end up like Artifact.
I hope we can all just band together, boycott that game and send a message to Valve ''We know you have the atention span of a goldfish for your games, we wont be invested on anything because you have showed sheer neglect for everything you produced, we cant even be invested in the lore of game series because you literally ABANDON EVERYTHING YOU TOUCH''
@@prismaticseal2553 That last part made me so sad. One day, Episode 3, one day...
may be proving your point here, but what's artifact?
@@w0lfdog hearthstone if it was made by valve
@@w0lfdog Valve card game that no one cared about, something like heartstone I guess
I wouldn't even call this "Review Bombing" at this point. This is just correcting the existing review score. The game WAS worthy of its rating before, but now? The game is literally unplayable on Valve's public servers, so its score SHOULD be far lower than the 90%+ it used to be.
And as much as people want to try and say "It's a game from 2007, it's dead."...No. They're still putting out new loot boxes and cosmetics at least 2-3 times a year. Not to mention every time an item is sold on the Steam Community Market, Valve gets 15% of that too. They're still making a sizable chunk of money off this game, so it should be maintained properly.
eh? think of it like retirement. just because they aren't working for that money rn doesnt mean they didnt give themselves the right to make that money anyways. yeah, its a game from 2007, 17 years old. i agree they should do something, but at the same time, youd be hard pressed to find a live service game last 10 years, let alone 17.
@@poyloos4834 world of warcraft
runescape
everquest
I can keep going
@@whtwolf100 this poy guy really doesn't seem to know what they are talking about
So guys we did it, we have reached a quorter of a million signatures.
oh man, that's such a throwback
@@sparkle74HvH 250000 signatures and still growing
Now we just need those signatures printed out and physically mailed directly to Gabe Newell's desk.
@@PewPewBeets we need some Mann co. cardboard boxes to stash all the printed signatures for maximum sarcasm
cue the OMFG - HELLO
I feel like Valve is just gonna remove negative reviewing entirely so they dont have to look at it.
Im sure their mental is "Its my game, why should I if I dont want to?"
A thing to keep in mind is that even if they are making a fix bc of this movement, they cannot publicly promise anything on social media because they did that last time
the last time 2 years ago... clearly, if valve cant fix the issue, they could stop people from using real money in that game until they fix it... broken product should not receive more than 100 million in revenu per year if not 500 million.
I think one way of giving TF2 A Second Wind, Is Selling/Giving TF2 to another team of developers WHILE Valve being It's Publisher, It will allow TF2 to still remain a Valve Property but also allowing the other team to continue the game
I wish you all a lovely day! :D
Well I wish you a lovely week.
Genuinely happy this is spreading around outside of the TF2 community. I really like this one cause he does point out that valve is still making money off of the community and would like to remind everyone that the seasonal cosmetics they get from community creations, sell in a case then they make money again on every transaction of the items in the case in the market place. It's just sad I love this game if I'm not playing something else, like for my channel I'm playing TF2. It has to be absolutely wild as a new player trying to play cause they won't even know community servers are a thing or how to use the server browser. You can play casual I mostly get into payload, a/d, and sometimes control points have enough people who know how to kick the bots to actually remove them but I haven't been able to get into a playable koth game at all and that's one of my favorite modes. I try not to flee to the community servers cause like I said if everyone does all new players are gonna do is try casual in a bit ridden hellscape then quit which will suffocate any community growth. Don't forget that valves competitive mode also has been dead for ever so basically everything valve server wise is pretty much rotting.
Valve's "flat management" structure means employees decide their own work structure, but their pay is based on revenue.
TF2 is old, a pain to work on, low glory, and doesnt make enough money for anyone to want to invest time into security updates that wont increase revenue. "Why fix it if people are still paying?"
But Valve is selling a broken product. The only way they will change is if they get sued. But they havent been sued over this because of the lack of money any lawyer would earn over suing a 20 year old free-to-play game.
Valve has said they have abandoned the game both through their actions AND their "maintenance mode" letter. Maybe it is time to listen?
“Selling a broken product” “free to play” might want to rethink that contradiction
@@Hunter_6601 "hats" "takes a cut of community trading" "Mann Co Store" "loot boxes" "microtransactions" "f2p chat restrictions"
Are you sure?
There's a clear difference though. Buying a game is required to play that game. Microtransactions on the other hand are completely optional, so they hold no responsibility.
@@GreyReBl congrats bro you can choose to waste your money, no one is forcing your hand
@@Hunter_6601 So you won't at all consider the fact Valve profiting from their free-to-play game constitutes as "selling a broken product?"
I thought Gabe would come to the rescue at least.
Is nobody going to mention how Valve has held the Firewatch developers captive and their new game that was originally from 2017 has been perpetually delayed to 2029
Never forget that TF2 was the start of "loot boxes". It's hard to forgive them for bringing THAT curse to PC and console gaming. Hat's off to you!
This is severely underrated as a criticism. They proved its profitable to sell opening items for a small fee. The rest of the industry just turned it up to eleven, but they really are the culprits.
i like loot boxes xd battlepasses are worse than them. Wish we could go back to loot boxes instead of the shit we have nowadays
@@renon1946 Honestly that's not really fair. TF2's implementation of the mechanic isn't egregious at all and doesn't promote pay to win or any of the other scummy things devs like to use it for. Others deciding to take something that works and corrupt it isn't the fault of the originators who didn't take things too far.
TF2's real guilt is in the fact that Valve has only ever been able to be bothered to do small bandaid fixes for this bot problem, and among these "fixes" which has been rendered useless since is restricting chat from free to play users which can actually function as pay to win, as communication is essential in a coop endeavor. Most if not all the bots have their chat function back, so in the end it only ever ended up hurting actual players.
@@larasynthwave5052 Are you serious? Why? Why do you like paying for a mystery box? I mean it. It's basically gambling instead of getting what you want specifically every time. I'm genuinely curious how anyone could actually like a loot box. Not defending the battlepass, I hate those FOMO factories too, just curious what the younger crowd actually sees in the "loot box".
@@Crow_Rising It felt like it was going too far right from conception of the idea to me, but then again I felt the same way about preorder exclusive bonuses and the original microtransaction, horse armor. That particular "act of Todd" should never have happened.
I also consider "cosmetics" to be important and not "just cosmetics" as the arguments defending them would have it.
we KNOW what the number is minus bots, its about 25,000 people, thanks to a recent analysis and exposure by Zesty Jesus, which makes the recent review bomb SO much bigger than it seems, almost 100% of the playerbase is on board and actively participating at this point. it really is the live or die moment for tf2.
concurrent player =/= unique monthly playercount, dota2 in 2016 have 800k concurrent players but 13 millions unique player,
@@maestromgx if the ratio between concurrent and monthly unique players stay the same between games, then that means about 10% of the active monthly users have lefta negative review for tf2
CS2 is also experiencing same issues as TF2 does. But much much lower scale... yet
Thank you very much for spreading awareness about the situation.
The entire situation experienced by TF2 community can be summed up like this - 7 years without any major update, official servers being overflown with bots for years and the only thing we've received on regular basis are loot boxes added every year.
What surprises me a little about this specific flavor of neglect is that (especially with things like the increased viability of just machine-visioning the video output if the DRM/anti-cheat is too good to allow your bot to safely scrape game state out of the running process without getting you banned) botting would seem like a threat to Valve's interests that isn't necessarily game-specific and a problem where combatting it would potentially provide benefits to multiple games.
Letting the bot guys continue to profit undisturbed because you don't care about TF2 anymore seems like a recipe for them to be well resourced and experienced when it comes time for them to bot up the new-hotness shooter on its release; and a general indictment of the effectiveness of VAC for multiplayer purposes.
It'd be one thing if people were all up in arms because TF2 isn't getting lots of artist time or foundational overhauls: it's in a more or less maintenance phase and they are working on a new project, what do you expect? But, unless there's some specific TF2 weakness that makes botting uniquely easy it seems like a risky move for Valve to just ignore bots there as though the games they care more about won't come under fire once that is where the money and attention are.
It's been proven it's NOT just TF2. TF2 is where the bot problem is at its worst, but it also exists to lesser degrees in L4D2 and CS2. The only time the problem went away was when Valve overhauled TF2 to be a 64-bit program. Even that only worked for a few days until the botters reworked their code.
If Valve doesn't actively take steps to fix the issue, Deadlock will end up the same way and probably become a dead game in a matter of weeks.
@@RookMeAmadeus the only way Deadlock can become a dead game is if it's a bad game. Bots in CS2 have been a thing for more than a decade and literally no one cares, because they don't affect the playerbase in any way whatsoever.
@@ForOne814 CS is a household name and has established fanbase that can tolerate a lot. Deadlock is a new IP and has no such benefits.
@@MrHitmancheg if the game is good, people will play it. If it's not, they won't. It's that easy. Pretty much everything else is irrelevant.
@@ForOne814 if Deadlock will face similar cheater, bot and DDoS issues Valve's other online games are currently struggling with, people will not put up with it, they'll fucking leave. It doesn't matter how good it is at the baseline, if the game is insufferable to play due to the issues Valve consistently fails to tackle - noone will want to play it for long. Deadlock is a new IP, it's not a household name, noone grew up playing it, noone has fond memories of it, noone made a career out of making content about it, people don't have any reason to cling to it. It'll simply shrivel up and die.
It hurts to see this. I own the "Primeval Warrior" badge for playing the game right from the start. I've seen the game at it's peak, and to see it's sorry, neglected state now is actually upsetting. I used to play this game every day, and now it's not even on one of my hard drives. I have cosmetics worth actual money and with sentimental value in some cases, but it's worthless if the game is in such a barely playable state. I used to believe Valve could do no wrong, I can't remember the last time I bought one of their games now, when was Portal 2? Left 4 Dead 2? I'm not going to support their new endeavours if they can't back up their promises to provide value as a service to their customers. I suppose this is one of the first big live service games, I guess we will see what Valve does to decide it's fate.
4:45 it’s kind of funny when you think about how both negative review spikes were in relation to the same thing: issues caused by the meet your match update
To anyone who is watching this and reads this comment. Please leave a negative review for tf2 every vote counts!
I stopped playing a long time ago when they went free to play , it went from a simple fun game to something hideous, stupid hats , loot boxes , strange confusing mechanics on the characters
ok boomer that was 2009
lmao I bet you quit listening to music when CDs overtook cassettes too
...strange confusing mechanics? you mean giving them different weapons with altered stats? hell back then the really wacky weapons werent even in the game so that statement is just ... well strange and confusing lol
Looks like you triggered a few people that love making themselves look bad. XD
i dont think valve employs game devs anymore is the problem. nobody that worked on games like TF2 or left4dead2 works at valve anymore. valve is no longer a game development company.
I remember buying the Orange box back then. Had such a great time with it. It's a shame to see how TF2, a game that has dominated meme culture back then, went downhill.
Everything dies. Play something else
@@ivanco9917 then valve should just publicly say they don't want to support the game anymore and shut down the servers instead of keeping it on perpetual life support and ignoring its existence. what is going on with tf2 now is a fate worse than death
@@ryuuthekitsune From my understanding TF2's economy is tied to other Valve's games and the Steam Marketplace. So it might not be possible to do so.
@@lycanwarrior2137 i suppose then the best that could be done then would be to shut down the official valve casual servers and let the community take control of it from there. the bots mainly infest causal anyways. this would require reworking the system for joining games to directly guide people to community servers though,
@@ryuuthekitsunethat would crash the cs market too. Valve would be FUCKED if they ended TF2 not to mention TF2 still has tens of thousands active players despite of the bot problems. There still are hundreds of huge community servers. It also has an active competitive community to this day
I am a TF2 player (4000 hours + ) for me its make me sad , Valve dont care about their game CS2 and TF2. Only game threating nicely by Valve is Dota 2 ( No hate for that game btw ). Thanks Bellular to cover this mouvement, love your video since 2 years !
boohoo valve doesn't care boohoo grow up man baby. these issue are out of their control every developer and every game is facing the exact same issues.
again grow up.
Billion dollar company continues milking its player base at an unplayable state. Your frustration is completely justified dude and I wish you the best, it’s the least I can say if it makes you happy
Either Valve fixes their game or the FTC gets complaints.
Damn even valve believes in the "its my IP to sit on and do nothing with" 💀
Amazing coverage. Thank you Bellular, cheers!
Simply One of The Games ever created even after lost Valve's affection, we all know the game is already old at this point and is not being recommend to everyone on these days however it is Valve's own fault
The game just became some sorta of underground game thanks for the casual being filled up with bot with cheats and the vast majority of the players having to take shelter on community servers leaving aside the new players (How do you want to the game keep popularity, I ask?)
I cant promise it but I truly feel from the bottom of my heart that if you hear all of us and bring us back our charismatic game completely free of bots every single tf2 player/ex player will come out from under their rock to spread the word that this game is the best shooter that you can ask for.
Deadlock will be such a flop, that once it releases, everyone is either gonna Cry or Laugh. More so Laugh as in, "Valve thought this is what we wanted" and Cry as in "Valve genuinely *thought* this is what we wanted". No matter what, Valve changed, even Gabe changed "From 115kg to 95kg"
Valve's not doing it because "we" wanted it, they're doing it because it's fun to make a game; the very same reason they originally developed TF2 and its updates for. It doesn't really matter if "we" don't want it since that's not the point.
Artifact didn't do well because it wasn't advertised really at all and the only people they showed it to were Dota 2 players before it slithered around the neighboring communities as Valve's "next big game", when it really was just a card game, a lot of possible new players already had time sinks and FOMO with their favorite card games and FPS players that play TF2/CS2 is unlikely to enjoy card games.
There's 13k in the private alpha alone for Deadlock already, which is reaching TF2's supposed actual player count.
Valve brought this upon themselves by sitting on their thumbs while this festered for years, instead of spending some of those millions they throw around at DotA tournaments, to fix one of their main staple games.
My 20th year anniversary of our gaming group (Team Mediocre) is this year in July. TF2 was one of the games that the handful of guys that started the group all played together and along with comp Counterstrike, were some of my greatest memories of gaming. It makes me sad to think that something that was at the foundation of our group is being neglected and might one day not be there. Like our friendships that have lasted 20 years even though most of us don't play much anymore, I thought TF2 would be a thing forever.
TF2 has always taken care of Valve and Valve is just throwing it into a retirement home to die in it’s own mind. How sad.
Remember when Valve does it it's not a problem.
Excuse me, but what do you mean by "when Valve does it"? What exactly they did?
@@XxguaxinimxX. When they do anything bad or "anti-consumer." Valve/Steam have an enormous legion of fanboys do basically do free PR for them.
@@lycanwarrior2137 Oh... I see... thanks!
@@Hunter_6601 they weren't actively supporting it since jungle inferno, 2017. the only thing needed from them is to keep it in a playable state, which doesn't need much staff or time, yet they decide to ignore the issue and launch the product that has the same cheating issues in the closed beta.
@@spidor2560 aah damn I deleted my comment because I didn’t nessissairly want to have a convo but I will say that that’s a fair point I just think this is a bit of overreaction especially since valve has stopped developing games a while ago and just want to focus on their distribution service
TF2 is still the best FPS. What a sad state of affairs, but a good game!
I'm really looking forward to the day deadlock decides to actually release. I'm imagining it being in a somehow worst state that Team Fortress 2 is currently and it just being the sweetest form of fucking catharsis known to man. I don't want to see their new IP fail but if they're going to leave their old ones in the dust to burn down, my pity well is just about bottomed out.
Team Fortess 2: Abondoned
Artifact 1 & 2: Abondoned
Dota Underlords: Abondoned
This is a pattern. If Deadlock isn't an immediate success, it probably will suffer the same fate.
If you want to look into the bot issue, ZestyJesus who is a Tf2 youtuber did a massive investigation and breakdown of the bot issue- not the aimbots.. or not JUST the aimbots, but the AFK bots, farming bots, etc etc.
If valve wants a remote chance at fixing TF2 they have to admit that VAC doesn't work in the modern cheating era. All their players know this in every game of theirs. Its not blocking any private cheat out there. Its an absolute joke but as long as valve keeps their "You don't need kernel level anticheat" stick up nothing will ever be fixed. Either admit its bad and make it automatically download and install something that works such as EasyAnticheat or make it from scratch and have an actual proper team on it to maintain it. Because this is not effective.
VAC never worked. No anticheat does. That "kernel-level" copium is exactly that - copium, it doesn't help at all. You still have cheaters, because the only way to get rid of cheaters is behavior analysis. It always was.
Thank you so much for covering this!
@zestyjesus did the math and it’s only around 20,000 real players for every 80,000 concurrent players
I mean, the game is 17 yeas old. I have been a huge fan of it, but how long does something need to be supported? Personally I would prefer a TF3 to continued support.
people are just doing what people do best on the internet.. outrage culture. none of these people care lol
Nobody's asking for major updates or even minor products, but TF2 as it is is a broken product.
"But TF2 is a 20 year old game, Valve can't support it forever." Then stop releasing skins and cases then. Shutdown the Valve servers and let the game go into retirement on community servers.
Game is supposed to die when it doesn’t interest players anymore. Its not supposed to die because its filled with cheaters. Its like saying that old man who was murdered died from old age. We love this game, we would be happy to play it, but its literally impossible
isn't AI such a wonderful tool. Look at all the ways it has helped humanity in the short time its been available. (sarcasm)
This is only the beginning, its going to get a lot worse.
It's not even AI, just automated scripts
i agree but this aint AI btw
This has literally nothing to do with AI? Its just average ass aimbot scripts that have been around since forever
@@GordsZarack The Chat bot spoofing the youtubers identity making mock racist tirades isn't AI related?
Been playing this game since 2008 on and off. It is the only game I keep coming back to, so it kinda breaks my heart to see it treated like this by Valve.
Same here 😢
Deadgame, no I mean Deadlock. :)
Bots will kill the game in a few seconds
@@Glitchmouse2 Botlock
They dont care and will continue to not care. If they shit it down tomorrow it wouldnt even be a blip on their financial radar. Sadly they will never do anything because there is no financial reason to do so.
So then the next step is, boycott. Massive user decrease in ALL steam games. Like I hate to say it but we gotta do the digital equivalent of starving, no more video games or not least not actively online and not a fuckin soul should log into TF2 at all, Hell I'd even push for IRL picket lines, because while meaningless in the face of politicians it is every CEO's worst nightmare. This shit is ridiculous, even with "no financial difference" Bad rep can't feel good for a company that's consistently had our financial nipple everywhere else, so if they suddenly had a huge decrease in sales overall and during this movement, finally something could happen but I don't want it to come to that, they should just get off their duff and FIX IT
@@TheQuaadFather "Massive User decrease in all steam games" lol lmao TF2 players are less than 1% of all steam users, what makes you think the 99% even cares about tf2 or at least enough to stop playing other games? this is an old 17 year old game
Gaming is so fuckin fucked up…I miss gaming back in the day
It's fine. Just AAA is fked. Don't give them money and watch it change again very fast.
I thought they were just distributors now
@@JohnnyMaverik facts
@@Hunter_6601 You do know that they are working on a new game called Deadlock, right? And that even TF2 still gets new cosmetic MTX every season? You would know that if you actually watched the video...
@@Hunter_6601 keep shilling bot, Valve won't date you
It's one of my favourite games and I haven't been able to really sit down and play it and enjoy the experience in years
In a fantastic analytical video called “No one’s home”, it was estimated that the actual peak player count on any given day is roughly 10,000.
Frankly, the amount of managing to properly convey how to help and design on websites etc, that is going into this speaks volumes about its community and commitment. Hope it works out for them.
Everyone acting like Valve is a video games development studio, as if all the great game talent hasn't slowly moved on over the years and been replaced with software development devs.
If Valve wants the take the easy road out of a serious situation that’s tanking their reputation, I would propose they just get rid of casual servers, removing Valve servers from the casual, boot camp and competitive side of the game (they may need to either announce Mann Up’s servers closure or just maintain only them) and bring back quickplay (and a modified MvM bootcamp searcher working similar to quickplay in this case) that provides only community servers that passes their bar exam to be eligible for quickplay.
Sure, it could open room for nefarious actors to try making malicious servers that bypass it, but honestly if Valve doesn’t really want to work with us anymore, this is unfortunately the best (and easy, Valve hates working) longterm solution we got left.
Not saying they should, but it’s better than no solution at all.
The real problem is that they would need to completely over hall the source code as ive heard that it got leaked somewhere at some point thus is why its not a simple task to get rid of these hackers
Then maybe it's time they took those millions they've earned over the years and do just that. Would that be so, so hard for a multimillion dollar company, to fix their own service...? Give me a break.
The real player playercount is upwards of 30k at peak hours.
The most viable solution to this problem is to revert the thing that caused the botting crisis in 2016 to begin with, the Meet Your Match update.
Also, the only reason the game has been in decline for 8 years is because of MYM, and Jungle Inferno not fixing the problem of the MYM system breaking the game by existing, there was an exodus of veteran players.
Will quick play prevent botting? There has been many instances of targetted bot waves infesting community servers. If quick play comes back and there isn’t 24/7 moderation on comm servers, you prolly could still encounter bots ruining the small guy community servers.
Let’s hope bot hosters lose interest from the lack of official casual servers.
Valve is a private company - they couldnt care less about reviews or petitions.
Which is actually one of the downsides of private companies.
Out of sight, out of mind...
it hurts, to see the game i grew up with and that actually saved me several times from suicide simply because of fucking community servers is INSANE. I barely play it now and cashed out alot of my inventory but like, damn, why you gotta do my boi so dirty
'Valve would you be willing to sell the rights?'
'Sorry but it still makes us money.'
*Everyone stops buying for a month or two.*
'What about now?'
Yes I know I'm probably oversimplifying it.
They are working on a new game that kinda looks similiar to TF2 but with 3rd person (more skins to sell)....just my thoughts...
Edit: They even can't really fix the botfarming and cheating situation in CS2...it is kinda disheartening how they are treating their biggest Cash Cows (TF2 & CS2)
Almost 20 years and Valve still hasn't learned how to count to 3? We COULD get an Orange Box 2... but what's the point with no HL2e3/HL3, no TF3, and no Portal 3?
Cause those are single-player games. Which make FAR LESS money compared to multi-player/PVP.
And Half-Life Alyx was mainly for pushing their VR product.
@@lycanwarrior2137yeah.. Not I wasnt , stop talking nonsense
Why we don't have hl3 has already been said, why we don't have porial 3, I thought everyone knows, but apparently not, so I'll ask directly. Why do we need portal 3 if the story is already finished?
You missed Ricochet 2.
Thank you for covering this ❤
I do believe this can be a class action lawsuit against valve. Since there is money involved and possession is 9/10ths the law, there may be a case for a lawyer to look into this and realize this is a action of neglect, which can fall under a scam. As such valve could be forced to refund... all purchased items for the game if found guilty
Boycott Deadlock!
Can't wait to see Deadlock be review bombed into oblivion. :D
4:51
I have a feeling that 2000 negative review spike ont the 1st of July 2016, was Meet Your Match.
Edit:
Went to the Team Fortress 2 channel to see when the Meet Your Match promitional video was released; 6th of July 2016, close.
We could get the crazy detectives on 4chan to figure out who the hosts are. I think they could find someone from the sound of their breathing.
"Do you only care about CS2 and Dota 2?" Um, no lol. They don't care about any of the 3 beyond monetization. Valve sucks at maintaining all of their games. Dota 2 is mostly okay since it's sorta the favorite child, but CS2 has been circling the drain since day 1, and the comp scene last I checked is slowly but surely bleeding out. The only people content with the state of CS2 are gambling addicts that don't actually play the game. They dropped the ball hard, and if it wasn't for whales then CS2 would probably have been a catastrophic release. I think an argument that needs to be discussed more is why should anyone be excited for a new multiplayer Valve game like Deadlock when they can't even be bothered to do the bare minimum "treadmill work" for their current ones, like making sure Vac is actually up to date with current exploits, plugins, cheat software. It is absolutely guaranteed that Deadlock is going to have a detrimentally high amount of cheaters and bots from day one, and will never be fixed. Hell, there have even been rumors that the private beta already has a cheating problem. Everything wrong with TF2 is in every game under Vac because Valve has not updated it in any meaningful way in literal years because everyone there refuses to. TF2 particularly is just being hurt the most because a group of people are actively taking advantage of this to kill it/ commit illegal activities without repercussions, for whatever pathetic reason they might have. Valve deserves the bad press, and I think things are going to end very badly for them given enough time.
On a side note, thanks to some really intensive research done by ZestyJesus, we now know that about 70% or so of the TF2 playerbase are idle farming bots, leaving about 20k actual human players at all times or something around that. Given that the idle bots are an even bigger problem in both CS2 and Dota 2, I'm really curious how much those games counts are being inflated, and how many people playing them are actually human.
You're delusional if you think CS2 is "circling the drain" lmfao
@@weab Tell that to the comp players and content creators dropping the game.
@@noodleman4555 I see, you're an expert with 118 minutes in game. Try exiting le rebbit echochamber and actually playing the game.
@@weab Because I dropped the game day 1 upon realizing it was garbage. Dude really needed to check my playtime to make himself feel better.
Normal companies abandon old games because they have to provide value to shareholders.
Valve abandons old games because their billionaire owners don’t care about much of anything.
TF2
CS2
Artifact
Underlords
I'm about to sell all my cosmetics and cash out before this game gets shut down. And I ain't even gonna look at Deadlocked. Fuck Valve at this point.
The bots aren't there farming skins/drops, it's bots using aimbot with the pure purpose of ruining the game. The bot hosters aren't making money off of this they have just decided that they want to try and ruin the game. Valve's anti cheat isn't doing anything.
it’s both
Like hell Valve cares at this point, they are working on a new game. Also this isn't the first time we had a petition to fix TF2. I'm not even surprised if they suddenly shut down the servers. It's time to take out that dose of copium guys.
Don't start bitching when the bots come to deadlock.
I gave up on online vs gaming after the tarkov wiggle video - It's everywhere you can just sense it in the drastic shift tempo of matches no matter the game once you have some experience.
I just find it upsetting that this is giving people even a little bit of hope, as if it's even possible for this to do something. This feels more like a way to just disappoint the most amount of people possible. This is Valve, the same people who haven't updated their anti-cheat since 2004.
i dont expect valve to do shit they own steam why the hell would they listen to anyone, they manage to lose my account even though i logged in religiously, all those hours on tf2, killing floor gone, was the very reason i will never go pc again.
This is stupid, I had wrote a comment about Valve's service agreement being the problem cause it is but CZcams glitched out on me typical. Just like this issue the glitch I experienced is a symptom of a much bigger problem, This is just going to keep happening. I would sign the petition but I genuinely fail to see the point, this is going in circles and there are problems in the real world that are more pressing than this right now especially just in general.
Frankly at this point I hold all content creators in contempt for blanking the issue, Cause If Total Biscuit was still alive he would be smashing the ever living shit out of that Valve's TOS drum right now and people would be rallying behind him in mass just facts. But no we get the lightweight division of game devs and twitch streams to be the voice of the consumer now.
If you think I sound ungrateful and unappreciative it's because I am, my hobby is dying at the hands of idiots who think they know it all so of course I'm not happy about it.
I remember times where bots join the game steal my name and either players or bots kick me
From what I understand, the only way to properly fix the bot problem at this point would be to rebuild its source code. Because the source code leaked and that is something that caused the bot problem to spiral WIDELY out of control!