The Aftermath of Dutch Colonialism in Indonesia - The Moluccan Question and Netherlands New Guinea
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- The Dutch colonial empire came to an end on 27th of December in 1949 when Indonesia was granted independence by the Dutch. The Netherlands had transferred sovereignty to the Indonesians. It made an end to the Indonesian War of Independence (in Dutch known as: Politionele Acties) that started right after the Second World War in Indonesia ended. First there were the United States of Indonesia only to be taken over by the Indonesian Republic. Shortly after 12.500 Moluccans were transferred to the Netherlands. Many of the indigenous soldiers of the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army (the KNIL) were of Moluccan decent. They also fought with the Dutch against the Indonesian republicans during the Indonesian War of Independence. Did they had to stay behind in a country they were previously helped colonizing? In 1950 the self-proclaimed Republic of South Maluku (RMS) saw the light of day. Several months later forces of the Indonesian Republic invaded Ambon to take down the RMS. They took Ambon after heavy fighting, yet Moluccan fighters continued a guerrilla warfare on the nearby island of Ceram for another 13 years.
In the 1950s more repatriates came to the Netherlands. The so-called Moluccan Matter (Molukse Kwestie) would have a bitter aftertaste in the 1970s where radicalized Moluccan youngsters perpetrated several terrorists attacks. Several attempts to kidnap the Indonesian ambassador in the Netherlands failed, so did the attempt to take the Dutch queen hostage. Yet, in December 1975 Moluccan youngsters hijacked a Dutch train near Wijster. The train driver was shot dead and two more hostages shared the same fate. The hostage crisis ended when the Moluccan terrorists surrendered. This was the first train hijacking the Netherlands. In May 1977 Moluccan terrorists took over another train near De Punt and simultaneously a primary school in Bovensmilde. It ended with an intervention of Dutch marines.
Netherlands New Guinee was the territory the Dutch did not cede to Indonesia after the sovereignty transfer. The Dutch saw it as their mission to civilize the primitive people of New Guinee. Yet, Indonesian leader Sukarno saw it as part of his republic. In the following years Indonesian marines infiltrated the area. Just like they did during the times of the Konfrontasi in Sarawak. Would this lead to another war between the Netherlands and the Indonesian Republic?
History Hustle at Home presents: The Aftermath of Dutch Colonialism in Indonesia - Repatriation, Netherlands New Guinea and the Moluccan Question.
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Most of the KNIL army were javanese. More than any other ethnic. And the moluccans have always been muslim, not christian as you said. The small minority that became christian did so bcuz the dutch allowed christians more rights.
moral of the story. Colonialism Leaves big wounds. Nice video btw.
Thank you. I agree colonialism can leave big wounds. It depends how big the wound is, which has to do with the way the colonization was carried out and how it was ended.
@michael boultinghouse You have an interesting concept of "liberation". As the Buddhist Japanese practiced some curious strain of rescue to their Asian neighbors. It's called genocide.
@michael boultinghouse yeah the IJA liberated the hell out of China
@michael boultinghouse It's basically Japan's fault Mao won, if they hadn't wrecked the nationalists with operation Ichi-go then they probably would have held off and crushed the reds. Also saying that if Japan won it would have been good for East Asia because No Vietnam War No Korean war, is like saying that a 3rd reich victory would be good because No Yugoslav wars of the 90s or no Soviet invasion of Hungary.
I personally love Imperial Japan and its history, yet that can't excuse the inexcusable
@michael boultinghouse Ahh yes lets just ignore how the communists were nearly eradicated before the long march, and were basically locked in their area of control in Ya'an before 1937. Also, the situations in Vietnam and China. Finally, China had an small economic boom in the 30s known as the Nanjing decade (sort of like a prelude to the late 90s under "liberalization" policies), so the KMT government wasn't doomed to failure more like doomed to reform.
Edit: they were only hated after the long attrition war against Japan, specially after deliberately flooding the Yellow river
That was certainly an interesting episode, especially the part about Moluccans. I think that I might vaguely hear something about this issue before, but it was mostly completely new for me.
Thanks for the reply Arthur. And this is what I love to do you know. Tell people stories they haven't heard of. I'm glad you liked the video!
I'm from the kei islands. Our islands were never colonized compared to the neighboring islands in the Moluccas (Ambon, Banda). We always have the Larvul Ngbal rights that are related to Bali from the Buleleng district. We also have no colonial buildings etcc on our island. That makes it extra complex on the Moluccas. We are the only kingdom that stood up and resisted colonialism. Up to now, culture is still being observed.core.ac.uk/download/pdf/12210685.pdf
@@Teguila Interesting!
Thanks for creating this series.
Thank you, David!
Well first of all, nice video! It feels like that finally somebody is interested in our (Moluccans) history. Thanks for that! I'm Dutch but I'll write this comment in English so everybody understands it!
In my younger years (25 now) people bullied me and told me to go back to my own country. They didn't know the history and the relation between the Netherlands and the Moluccans. Nowadays people sometimes ask me where I'm from and when I tell them that my roots lie in de Moluccan Islands, they always bring up the subjects like 'Satu Darah', hostage takers and train hijackers. Still people don't know the full history of the Moluccan people and why they live in the Netherlands.
The Ducht and her government withholds so much history and they completely ignore it. In 1951 the Moluccans arrived in Rotterdam after a 9 month long journey. People died and babies were born on the ships they where traveling on. They packed clothes and stuff for a temporary stay in the Netherlands because the Netherlands promised that they would get an own state on the South-Moluccan Islands. Once arrived in the Netherlands the KNIL soldiers were were fired and demobilized. After 61 years, the government finally decided to apologize to the Moluccans. More and more politicians thought the government should apologize, an apologize for the humiliating treatment of the first generation Moluccans in the Netherlands. In 2012 Prime Minister Mark Rutte decided to finally apologize to the Moluccans.
People always speak of the 'terrorist acts' like the hostage of the school in Bovensmilde, the train hijacks of 'De Punt' and 'Wijster' but why don't people see it from our side? What would you do if you're in another country than your own? What would you do if someone promised you things but they'll never keep their promise? I bet you would be mad too. But the thing is, the Moluccan people were being ignored. Nobody listened to them and nobody understood them. The actions at the school and the train where actions to get attention from the Dutch Governement. The people were mad because they saw that their parents (KNIL military and their families) were in pain because they were lied to. To this day, the Dutch government abandons the Moluccans while we are here because of them, while my grandfather and ancestors have fought for the Dutch flag. They have always remained loyal to the Netherlands and what they got in return? Nothing.
In Indonesia it is still forbidden to be RMS. Christiaan Robbert Steven Soumokil was president of the RMS from 1950 to 1966. He was executed on April 12, 1966. To this day it is unknown where Soumokil is buried. Requests from the widow and son of the RMS leader as well as current President Wattilete to reveal the grave have never been accepted and answered. People are being arrested, imprisoned, tortured, humiliated in front of their families and their entire village. Why? Only because they have raised the RMS flag. And now I would like to include the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Article 5:
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Article 15:
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
These two articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights are being violated in Indonesia. The Dutch government does nothing about it and the United Nations does nothing about it either. Are Human Rights there for nothing?
And finally, King Willem-Alexander, his wife Queen Maxima, and a number of ministers paid a state visit to Indonesia in March 2020. The King confessed regret and apologized to the Indonesian president for the excessive violence on the part of the Dutch these years. And the Dutch King did so, in the full realization of the pain and sorrow of the affected families continue to be felt today, generations later. But wait, the Moluccans, the people your grandmother brought under false promises aren't worth an apologie? Well, maybe we have to wait another 75 years..
Thank you for taking the time to write such an extensive response. I'm glad you liked the video. The Moluccan Question is something I want to dive deeper into. There are some aspects I don't really get. With the basic knowledge I have I try to elaborate on your comment.
Shipping the Moluccan people to the Netherlands wasn't a great idea to begin with. What were the alternatives? Let them stay in Indonesia. They would probably rebel and this rebellion would probably be crushed by the TNI. Think of this. There was a very good chance many Moluccans that live in the Netherlands nowadays wouldn't been born if this happened. Promising the Moluccan an own state was an idiotic promise the Dutch government has ever done. The Dutch could in no way live up to this. I don't get why the Dutch did this. As I don't get why the Moluccans weren't shipped to New Guinea, which remained in Dutch hands.
As for the radicalized youths of which some started to commit terrorist actions. I never quiet understood why. See, the Dutch veterans who fought in the Indonesian War of Independence were also totally neglected after returning. They didn't start terrorists acts. And I get it, the Moluccans felt strangers in the Netherlands. Also because it was long time promised they would get their own state. Therefore integration in Dutch society was minimal.
As for the Indonesian state. I find the way they surpress Moluccans, Papuan (and earlier Acehenese) nationalist sentiments not okay. As for Willem-Alexander apologizing for the excessive violence. I don't think you can put this on a par with the false promises to the Moluccans since the latter didn't get people directly killed, only indirectly...
@@HistoryHustle I totally understand what you're saying! Everyone has a different look on things and also on this question!
Good to hear that you're interested in the question and that you want to dive in deeper!
Thanks for your response!
because moluccans dont have their own country, and indonesia is a strategic partner and emerging economy with 200++ million population that shared the same history with dutch? obviously
michael boultinghouse the Netherlands gave the Moluccan people a choice they could never make! Stay in Indonesia with the risk of being killed or something like that OR come to the Netherlands (for three months) and return to a ‘own’ land/republic.. what would you choose?
Thank again for the latest videos Netherlands Pacific esp w/re Indonesia. You have been very informative. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for your reply.
interesting video, many thanks!
Thanks for your reply.
Very, very professional and great academic review
RS. Canada
Many thanks!
Shows like this remind me of the early days of history channel in my youth. I really enjoy this, especially without all the sound effects and music. Well done Sir
Thank you so much! Really nice to read :)
@@HistoryHustle just keep it up
I am an American and student of European decolonization. I have been focused on French Indo-China and Algeria but am also fascinated by the Dutch East Indies through the Indonesian attacks on Dutch New Guinea and Irian Jaya. Many thanks for your videos.
Thanks for your reply, Paul 👍
Algerian and moluccan here :)
The popular concept among many Indonesians is that after 1949 the "Republic of Indonesia" was fully independent. This video is pretty interesting because it shows that the Republic of Indonesia state basically forcefully take over other states in the Federation which is very RARELY mentioned in the state-sponsored school history book, and it also shows that not all "indonesians" wanted to join the Republic of Indonesia as, again, the state-sponsored school history book usually depicts.
Very interesting what you post here, thanks. Love to know more about these state-sponsored school history books you mention. I also would love to know more about how the Republic managed to take over the order territories outside Ambon and West Papua. Maybe something for another video.
@@HistoryHustle Like, back when i was still in high school, the school history book didn't mention anything about the genocide that was happening during 1965. They just outright skipped that part.
I assume you have read the declassified U.S. Embassy files i sent you like in, when was it again Feb or March ?
My point is that, the school history book is heavily biased toward the Indonesian perspective. There's no neutral point of view in the book.
@@ImRezaF My father grew up in Soeharto's New Order and only learned about the G30S/PKI movie being propaganda years after he lived outside Indonesia. Even the Moluccan state and the exile of the Moluccan population he only discovered years later.
Indonesia school book, never really tell what happen during 1965, they usually just say
"Well, you see the PKI is doing something naughty and they want to overthrown Soekarno, so our hero and almighty Soeharto step in to save the day and to destroy the PKI once and for all. What? How about the aftermath? Massacre? Oh no no, there's no massacre in Indonesia, what? 500k people die? There's no such thing, stop hearing zionist Israel propaganda you heretic"
I mean for God sake, how can't people see how suspicious all of that, a party that has been favored by Soekarno since his rise of power suddenly commit a coup out of nowhere and then Soeharto came to save the day and for some reason become a president. 30S/PKI is a pretty ambitious movie though, I must give them that.
But for the credit, my school book does say something about Soeharto regime but it was so short like "... Soeharto's regime is corrupt and has done many bad thing" done.
My point is that, Indonesia still need time to open its eyes and to finally accept what happen in the past, several decades of indoctrination can't be broken by just saying "That is wrong, this is the truth" we still need time to accept what happen in the past and make peace with it.
Lol...u guys talked like others nation is so pious... It was common pattern of all independent nation do r8???
New history infomation for me about maluccan people in netherland after revolution, I support your channel bro .
Thank you. Feel free to share.
Thank you this is very informative. My father is from the Mulucan island of Kisar and born at the time of Indonesian independence!
Thanks for your reply.
So much knowledge that i got from u rather from my schools..thanks man god bless u ❤️❤️
Thanks.
My Uncle was one of the Hijackers of the train sadly he died there. Mateus Tuny, was his name.
Wow, that brings history really close. I appreciate you letting us know. Can I ask: how is Mateus remembered in the family?
@@HistoryHustle i was not allowed to experience it myself, I was not born yet, but I heard stories from my father, he had actually arranged the day of the hijacking with my father for a drink, but he did not show up that day , until my grandmother turned on the TV and suddenly heard about a hijacking, we actually knew enough. it was a sweet man and a family man too!
Thanks for sharing!
@@HistoryHustle as an hero.. freedomfighter
My grandmother was actually part of the negotiations on the train hijacking. Soumokil, and my mom she was close friends with one of the hijackers who got killed during the military offensive, it still is a tough subject to talk about even now.
Hormat E @Maluku SatuSuku
Thanks very much for this very interesting video, as I'm a French national who've been living in Java for almost 25 years now. My passion for Indonesia has lead me to learn on its history. My interest on genealogy also lead me to do some research in Java & Bali for a Paris-based Dutch family who needed to know more about their ancestors who were settlers in Java & Bali before WWII (some of them were interned by the Japanese in their infamous concentration camps), and that exciting research has made me focus on the 1930-1950 period. As it happens that I'm also an inbound travel agent, I therefore would be more than happy to help you out with your own research. Thanks again for sharing your videos..
Thanks for your message. Interesting to read!
@@HistoryHustle You're welcome. Do not hesitate to keep in touch if you need someone on the field to help you out further. I'd be happy to trade infos or even share my own research when on location. Do not hesitate to pm me then...
Bonjour Dominique! Ça va bien à Java? It's "... to learn ABOUT...", not "... to learn on"! Pas problem, hombre! Les prepositions sont difficile à conquerer dans toutes les langues du Monde! Bonne chance avec Bahasa Indonesia! 😅
@@DominicCPhotography what part of java you are coming from? Im Javanese myself
@@nak.lanang Yogya, mas...
Nice gedaan👏👍
Thanks, Ricardo!
Bedankt voor het maken van deze video! Vind dit een ondergewaardeerd stukje geschiedenis waar veel Nederlanders zich niet bewust van zijn. Mijn opa zat bij het KNIL.
Bedankt voor het kijken!
Another great video! I wonder how long it took for you to research all these Indonesian videos! Keep it up!
It wasn't that bad since I had some knowledge of my own plus manageable sources.
Good stuff mate keep on going
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Very interesting. If you have time/interest could you do a video on the Dutch withdrawal from New Guinea. Thanks.
Thanks! Talked about it in this video. Won't do another one.
Thank you for making a video on this as an American they never teach this but I've always had an interest in the Dutch East Indies and how colonialism left the place.
Thanks for your reply!
As a former Dutch resident i remember the night the train at de punt lets say was liberated .At 3 till 4 in the morning they had army jets flying lengthwise over the train at a very low altitude while the doors were blown open and used about 2000 rounds of 0.5 ammo on the front of the train where 6 of the hijackers were resting.Inside the passenger compartment one lady stood up in panic and was killed in the crossfire.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for explaining about Irian Jaya. I worked in Papua New Guinea and what I heard is confirmed by your video. if you ever decide to do a video about the war of 1812, it would be great. This is a war not even heard of in Europe as the war of 1812 occurred during the Napoleonic Wars. Canada claimed victory and so did the USA. You would not even know it was the same war .
Thanks for your comment Mike. Early 19th century is not on my to-do-soon list. Sorry.
Sir that was informative and quick. Looking at the geography of Papua New Guinea, it hinted about an unrest (like Sudan & Czech Republic).
But exciting to know the unrest had links with Dutch colonialism. Indeed, colonialism & de-colonialization changed the world-order forever.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
Really enjoy your work.
Great!
Very interesting and good for me as a Brit living in NL to have some facts about Dutch colonisation.
👍
You mentioned that Indonesia was "granted" independence which I suppose represent the Dutch perspective. The Indonesian view is that independence was not a grant. It was won through a major struggle. How does each side justify their claim? Is there a way of coming with an objective view on the matter?
It's hard. With the Dutch granting independence I refer the sovereignty transfer of 1949 in which both sides agreed on the matter (the Dutch reluctantly because of presure by the US). If they Dutch didn't they could have sent more troops and take down the Republik Indonesia. During Operation "Kraai" the Dutch already captured Sukarno and Hatta. Yet, I'm happy they finally gave in. Full control would probably never be restored and a long guerrilla war would be the result. Yet, I do agree íf the Dutch pushed through there would be no independent Indonesia like there was after 1949. That's why I use the word 'granted'. Although I'm aware of the fact the Indonesians themselves declared their own independence in 1945.
@@HistoryHustle yeah but seizing the major cities mean nothing with constant attacks from guerillas. Real order would've never been fully restored seeing even yogjakarta has been attacked multiple times by the republicans and even seized for a very short time. Not to mention the suburbs and the rural areas. You probably couldn't even walk a road safely without getting ambushed, so the whole point of having a colony for economic means would be futile.
The dutch like to think they would have won but they didn't and they surely never would fully seize the entire colony either.
memberikan kemerdekaan???
I' m interested in Dutch colonial history since my youth; where did you dig up all the photo's and video's?? Never seen this before. Astonishing...
You're welcome Menno. Thank you for your message. Photos are from commons.wikimedia.org.
as Indonesian i think this video heavily contain dutch point of view.
because of course some of them like the constitution or independent date is extremely different with Indonesia side.
example:
we already have our constitution sign on 18 august 1945 and independent at 17 august 1945.
we also have democratic election and liberal democary at 1955.
before it changes on 1959 at guided democracy.
Agree....
I think Stefan and others should be see from Indonesia side.
And first of all should be know Indonesia's back ground history.
@@aloysiushureputra8276 We can't expect him to look at it from the Indonesian side, because he is Dutch.
the 1th and 2nd world wars were wars that took place in Europe to fight over Indonesia.
France and Germany tried to beat the Netherlands.
By colonizing Indonesia, the Netherlands grew into a rich country in Europe, making many countries in Europe jealous of it.
With its wealth, the Netherlands could pay mercenaries around the world, and Russia was the largest supplier of troops for the Netherlands.
The USA and Japan secretly made an agreement to seize Indonesia from the Dutch.
Japan pretended to join Germany in the Tripartite, and the USA pretended to join the allies.
After the second world war ended, Japan and the USA helped Indonesia to become independent with various war equipment which made the Netherlands lose against Indonesia in the first and second aggressions.
The USA and Japan also benefit greatly by processing mines in Indonesia free of charge because of the kindness of the Indonesian people to them.
Since then they have grown into a rich country replacing the Netherlands.
And the people of Ambon Maluku are of course very happy, because as a region that does not have natural resources in Indonesia, they still receive assistance.
The Netherlands was colonized by Germany, because many of its officials in Indonesia carried out corrupt practices that weakened the Dutch empire. But unfortunately the native people who used to participate in corruption with de Dutch were not brought to the Netherlands at all, even these people have become parasites for the Indonesian nation to this day.
Nice 1 Stephan as a Englishman ive lived in Indonesia and holland and the shows are great ,very informative.
Ps What happened to the germans that killed 33 people on Dam square after the war.?
These t POW's of the allies.
Simple and nice explanation, but I find it weird and incorrect to say they were "rebels" at 7:09, it give people unknown to this conflict the wrong image. The word rebels is often associated with simple, civilian men who took up arms. But they were former KNIL soldiers stationed at Ambon combined with volunteer soldiers and there was already a RMS government . KNIL was also a well trained colonial army. The Indonesians suffered around 4000-5000 loses according to Australian officers stationed there. While the Moluccans suffered around 500 loses.
You're welcome, thanks for your additional information.
I think you misunderstand something because the ‘youngsters’ were not former KNIL soldiers.. they were the children of the former KNIL soldiers
As an Indonesian i kinda wished we stayed a federal state, the first Vice President Mohamed Hatta also disagreed with soekarno’s Guided Democracy and wanted to keep the Federal system
Thanks for sharing this.
The Subtitles were so slow in the video
I see what I can do.
I have read somewhere that the Dutch colonialism ran such an apartheid state that when Indonesia became independent, there were only 16 university graduates of Indonesian origin in the whole country. Is it true?
I'm not sure about that number but I wouldn't be surprised.
You forgot the incident in 1974 ,when the RMS took hostage of the Indonesian School in Amsterdam .....
Didn't know this.
USA intervened because worried the USSR had already eyes on the Republic Indonesia
The Dutch comics artist Peter Van Dongen recently published a graphic novel on the repatriation to Netherlands (his grandmother came from Ternate, North Maluku, while his mother was born in Manado, North Sulawesi, in 1941 and spent her childhood in Makassar, South Sulawesi). The graphic novel is based on the novel Familieziek by Dutch author Adriaan van Dis. Van Dongen’s other graphic novel about Indonesia called Rampokan, taking place just after WW2, is also very readable.
I enjoy these history videos by the way
Interesting. Thanks for your message and patronage. I will message you soon.
What is the Moluccan case now? They live in the Netherlands? what happened to them when they realized that the Dutch Government could do nothing about their own country?
I have never heard of these events or even of this nation.
If you don't know, now you know;)
Hai selamat Siang, Apa kabar salam From Indonesia
I'm good, thanks. Greetings from Utrecht, the Netherlands.
Please give translation in Indonesia ,sir🙏
Sorry, don't know how to do that!
Dear stefan, you probably would disclose hiw much wealth was taken from Indonesia (east indie) since Dutch occupation whether it was directly dine by Dutch trader, VoC or government of Dutch kingdom. You a have better access to lookat the files. I trust the finding will shock everyone.
They are all visible in the wealth of The Netherlands which the Dutch people take so granted...
Please explain.
Just finished the video thanks well done.
My view is that taking in refugees doesn't always solve a problem my view is if they remain and fought on for a deal of limited self rule like Aceh or as we saw in East Timour.
We in Australia have help West Papua refugees some have chosen to go to New Guinea in fact Australia rule the other half of New Guinea until 1978.
Now we have Syria anyway if my country was in trouble I would say and fight.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
@@HistoryHustle it doesn't mean I'm right but it's my opinion, I'm interested in others opinions to including yours
Thanks for your reply
@@Adrian-ju7cm hahaha yeah. Aussie always support separatism :) they dont respect sovereignity. I wonder if we Indonesia neglect you join ASEAN hahah
@@andriwahyudani1302 what's so funny ?now Afghanistan government has run away.
Good morning, since this video is in English, I will also leave a message in English. Mine is Boy Haarms and I have been working on my Indonesian family history for some time now. Now, during the movie, I saw a group photo with young ladies (Indos). On the left in the photo was my grandmother. Her name was Grandma Dee Grüner and she was half German and half Indonesian. But was born in Indonesia. Now I was wondering, where is the source of this photo? I'd like to hear it from you. Sincerely, Boy Haarms.
Thanks for your reply. Images are from wiki commons.
@@HistoryHustle thanks for your comment. I'll check there to see if there are more photos.
@historyhustle Please open the history of West Papua too, because we know that West Papua was declared independent in 1961 by the Dutch
Perhaps I will cover this in the future.
Indonesia's independence was not granted by the Dutch. And our independence Day is August 17th, 1945, not 1949. Our ancestors fought for our independence. The Netherlands colonialized us for about 350 years but they wrote the history on their favor, different from what really happened. It's sad that the Dutch young people do not try to search more about it.
We de facto got our Independence in 1945 but it took until 1949 for the rest of the world to recognize us
@@OnionIlan But it was not granted. It's ridiculous when they keep saying our independence was granted. It surely took a long journey. We fought for it. There were bloody wars in many parts of Indonesia to expel the invaders. Even after 1945, when our founding fathers took diplomacy as a way to get the acknowledgement, the invaders broke the agreements many times. And we had to get into wars again after they fooled us. And don't forget at last we had to pay a great amount of money to the invaders, the Netherlands, for their war expenditures and assets in Indonesia. We lost many lives, they took away our wealth, and they forced us to pay for their wars. Our independence was not a grant at all!
I don't hate the next generation of Dutch, let it be a history. But I do hope that they'd like to learn the truth.
Recently, their government acknowledged Indonesian independence in 1945 not in 1949. That's a good sign. I hope we can learn from our history and not get trapped into any kind of modern colonializations.
@@angborneo5173 i never said we were granted independence, I just said we de facto got it in 45 but was only recognized as an independent nation in 49
@@OnionIlan I know. I just want to emphasize the word "granted" stated by the narrator. It is misleading and quite hurtful. Thank you for responding anyway. Indonesia now has a good foreign relation with the Netherlands. Indonesians are quite forgiving and let the past be a history. However, It would be better if they choose their diction accordingly regarding our shared history. There are historical pictures, artefacts, footages available if they don't really believe our history books.
@@angborneo5173I’m not denying the war crimes and horrible stuff “we” have done in Indonesia, but there’s a couple things I want to say: (Disclaimer: I’m just here for a civil discussion)
Indonesian ‘separatists’ were not winning the war. They control the majority of the countrysides, but all the capital cities (except Yogyakarta, where the Sultan was backing the independence movement) were under the firm control of the Dutch / British governments.
The Japanese army was double-dealing, on one side, they must handover the controlled territories as per their defeat at the hand of the Allies. But they have been instrumental in training many of the republican armies with basic military training and providing them with weaponry. This culminated in Battle of Surabaya, where at the cost of 50%-80% of the Republican forces, they managed to hold the city only for 3 weeks or so before the British Indian troops kicked them out of the city. Even Sukarno-Hatta realised that the war could not be won with conventional forces, and negotiated the ceasefire.
There were many crimes against humanity from both sides of the war, and the USA were quite supportive of “Decolonization”. Which is quite smart of them since they don’t have many colonies while removing weakened European powers from their Asian and African colonies will ensure the USA’s global dominance for the rest of the century.
So you fight a war you can not win, but the world superpower (USA) was sympathetic to your cause (and probably want to weaken the Dutch/British as well) because they think the Republican leaders were “reasonable”, the debt seems to be a cheap price to pay.
Of course, soon after Indonesia gained independence, the cold war began and Sukarno got caught in the cold war with a few assassination attempts by the CIA. It is also possible that PKI movement was backed by USSR (PKI was Sukarno’s party and his major power base), while the military generals were trained by the USA, hence Suharto’s CIA backed coup soon after.
So in reality, the Indonesians were pawns in the battle of the major powers, and paying the debt was the cheapest way to gain independence.
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There are many tribe in Indonesia which had been enlisted (by forced or voluntarily) to the KNIL and most of them were Christian, among them are the Moluccan, Minahasan (Manado), Batak, even Javanese.
Loved in Indonesia from 1997 until 2007 only lived in Indonesian towns and villages, lived as they did, ate what they ate. I could only speak English and very few villagers had some English, I learned Bahasa Indonesia pretty quick. Travelled
Must've been an amazing experience.
The way you pronounce sovereignty sounds a lot like serenity.
Yeah, it wasn't the best.
Thanks Stefan. MENA MURIA✊
Thank you for your reply!
I am curious as to what are/were your sources for this episode?
De koloniale relatie Nederland en Nederlands-Indië (L. Dalhuisen).
His version of history.. lol... and i know all my comments will be deleted by him.. LMAO
Simple googling will give you much confirmation. Of course you can't believe everything on the internet #fakenews, but many sources as legit sources will tell you the same with maybe a few errors (but that might be translation mistakes or they received wrong or not every info). There are also books, but for that you have to order or go to a library. Only the Indonesian side is very different. Their history books is made with propaganda goals. Dark pages are left out and the early rise of the nation is told differently. The United States of Indonesia is almost left out and it seems like Republic Indonesia was there from the start.
Terra Preta why, it’s the truth. Or GAM, OPM, FRETELLING AND RMS are fairy tales?
As the worldfamous prof. Carr said:"If you want to study history, study the historian first!"
If possible, you can try to study an American pilot who supported RMS and few para militaries from Sulawesi againts Soekarno. Captured by Indonesian army and Soekarno asked 4 C130 herc aircrafts for this guy.
Interesting, very specific subject.
very good video as always. as for the shooting with the dutch marines you need to understand that military is trained to eliminate the threat and not arrest the threat. secondly there is the issue of the self preservation. if the terrorists shot at the marines the latter will shoot back. usually men try to fight compared to women who surrender as you can see in the sabena flight highjacking in 1970s
Thanks for your reply!
What i understand about the US involvement in new Guinea is because the US fear that Indonesia would turn into Soviet orbit like China and Vietnam, many indonesia's gear to wage trikora operation was Soviets aid. Sukarno even met Kruschev as a message to Kennedy.
Anyway thanks for the video..
You're welcome!
That's what I read too
+oil
@@thestormworkshop2264 as always
Wait a minute, East Timur means "east east"??
Kinda yeah.
There is an alarming tendency of former oppressed people turning oppressive themselves.
That is sometimes the case yes.
Your history lessons are good but on Indonesia I think you remain a little to close to being Dutch be fully objective.
I have relatives who fled after Sukarno took power, lived in Sabah back in the 1060's while the British were still leaving and one of my favorite books is "This Earth Of Mankind" by the Indonesia writer Pramoedya Ananta Toer.
Yes there were bad things that happened after independence but today Indonesia is not only the largest Muslim country but also the largest Muslim democratic
Oddly, after the Dutch blotched the independence movement, Indonesia is a freer and more democratic country the Malaysia, a country where the British did a reasonable job of getting out.
It's sad the USA had to nudge the Dutch to face reality after WW2. Remember, the Dutch totally failed in WW2 and had absolutely no right to return to Indonesia, period.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
A few important side notes: The Moluccans in the Baraks were offered basic Dutch food and were very poor, as they were not allowed to work or go to school. Therefore, Moluccans asked and got help from Dutch citizens in towns nearby. The government responded with surrounding the Baraks with Military soldiers. They were not allowed to go anywhere. The soldiers used violence and shot someone.
Second note: After a while, the Moluccans had to be moved to Moluccan area's in different cities and towns. A group of Moluccans, however, didn't wanted to go with the idea that they were being seperated and integrated and they only wanted to go home (to Ambon) as was promised. They were, again, met with violence by the Dutch military.
Also after they were allowed school and work, Moluccans were discriminated and misunderstood and regularly met with violence. Nowadays, our history books doesn't teach kids about this part of the conflict, not many from my generation actually know why these Moluccans or Indisch People are in this country and where they come from (many indisch people also choose to go to the Netherlands, because they would be killed if they stayed by the Indonesisn military).
Second note: Prior to the violence of Moluccans in the 70's in the Netherlands, the Indonesian Republic, lead by Soeharto, crusified and shot down the Moluccan president. Moluccans in the Netherlands started peaceful demonstrations, but the Dutch government ignored them completely. This is why many young Moluccans thought: If we can't do it peacefully, then violently. Sadly, this is what happens when a group of people feels unheard and ignored for so long. I don't agree with the violence, but I blame the government for their scandalous treatment to these people.
Second note: The UN suggested and it was promised that there would be a referendum of free choice for the Papuan people in the 60's, whether they wanted to become independent or become part of the Republic of Indonesia. They demonstrated hard to get the referendum to actually happen and when Indonesia finally agreed to a referendum in the '60's, they chose around 1000 hand picked people to vote (and also used a lot of violence in Papua. People were missing, killed, harassed, a horrible time, but sadly not much has changed). The referendum was rigged by Indonesia, but the UN accepted it as valide and this is how the oppression of New-Guinea/West Papua continued the same way as in the Moluccans.
To my own believe, as someone who is both close to Moluccan and West Papuan heritage, but is also Dutch, these countries still deserve independence, but it is very unlikely it will ever happen, because of money. America, for example, is dependent on the oil Indonesia takes from West Papua, which is destroying their Rain forests. To this day, Moluccans and West Papuans wish to be independent, but are not heard enough to have a chance. In the Netherlands, most of what you exploitain is never taught at school. Most kids learn and are understandably confused that Republic Indonesië and the United states of Indonesia are the same thing and that Dutch people (leaving out Moluccans mostly) have fought in Indonesia against their independence (blaming the soldier more than the gouvernement who sent them). I hope that one day, West Papuans and Moluccans get the recognition they deserve.
Thanks for your reply and additional insights.
but the ambons in maluku today wanna be a part of indonesia. the free maluku movement is only in the netherlands. the west papuan thing is different. i would say 50% wanna be independet and 50 % wanna be indonesia. me as half indonesian can say. i love maluku and i love papua. i was in almost everywhere in indonesia
iam more afraid then meet moluccans in amsterdam then in ambon. the people in netherland hate indonesians but the malukus in maluku love me. i was in ambon seram kep aru and halmahera (north maluku) everywhere lovely people even the muslims were so nice to me
@@fefeffefe4771 Many Moluccans in Maluku are affraid to really express their feelings for a free and independent Maluku! Because if they do they will get locked up and tortured.
So what you are saying is not completely true.
@@El-0p0 i am independent and i was there!!! i talk to many guys iand they was honest to me. almost no one wants that there. i even talk to muslim original ambons and christians. totally diffrent than the dutch guys there
Why were the moluccans the only islands to fight for independence and side with the dutch?
Good question. I believe there were other uprisings as well, even during the so-called Indonesian War of Independence: both communist and muslim factions strived for power.
RESPECT TO MENTION THIS (RMS) ✊🏾
You're welcome!
After independent. Indonesia trying to get all shout east asian territory. They has stronger military in asia.only halfway through their efforts failed because Sukarno fell
It is interesting to speculate how things might have looked if Sukarno was successful in his attempts. Yet, hè certainly was in Western Papua.
No, it didn't.
Sukarno's idea was Indonesia as a succesor-state should control all of Dutch East Indies territory, including West Papua.
So he went and conquer/unify/liberate (depending on your perspective) it.
At the begining, the main idea was supported by big guy the United States, proven by war againts communist during Indonesian struggle war, but after 1960, in which Soekarno, close to Beijing and Moscow, US wanted to take down Soekarno and had successfully done. The prodecesor, Soeharto, has massive businesses with many Kingdoms in Malaya, Malaysia nowadays, so he would never take down this guys from Malaya. In Indonesian military, only Indonesian army, at the time who refuse to make war againts British Malaya, in which the army was under Soeharto control. Soeharto is hand of Cia in Indonesia for taken down Soekarno.
@@risymian3374 but west papua wasn't part of dutch east indies lol, they have their own government
@@seokjinnie7651 Wrong, Western new guinea was part of dutch east indies, a simple proof of this just look at the maps made by the dutch before ww2. There were no other state it was part of Dutch East Indies. It become separated after 1949 agreements, which also include the provision of discussing the status later on. However some members of the dutch government either motivated by racism or other reasons (mostly religion), decided that they want to create an Indo homeland. It seems at this time the Indo were still considered not dutch to be able to stay in the motherland.
this is history that that do not tell us in the uk thanks
You're welcome. I'm glad you appreciated the video!
They dont teach it on the dutch schools 😂
Hi i Indonesia :D
Welcome!
Only the few moluccans that wanted to stay loyal to the dutch had to leave. You make it sound like they all had to leave. If that were the case there wouldnt be any moluccans in indonesia now. Everyone regardless of ethnicity that was loyal to the dutch had to leave, including javanese.
I understand. Thanks for sharing.
Once more a great video highlighting the tragedies and inequalities left by Colonialism
Thanks for your reply! Glad you found it interesting.
"The Moluccan matter" is very bad English. Better to change the title into: "The Moluccan question". Besides that, the subtitles have a life of their own. Hope it helps.
True, I stand corrected.
Did you now, That the fundaments for independenty of the RIS and The RMS, was in1931.
By the Studends.Soekarno,Hata,Kayado and Nanlohy.
They were at That time,studyfrinds the "panca sila", of indonesia was writin By kayado.
But Soekarno and Hata, betray the Moluccans Kayado/Nanlohy. ...
Instead of two state's,the republik indonesia serikat and the republik maluku serikat.
Hata and Soekarno make one state republik indonedia
Didn't know this. Thanks for sharing!
Republik maluku selatan*
And because of this colonialism of Indonesia The Dutch became the biggest economy in the world back then. But what Dutch gave back to indonesian people almost nothing. What heritage we got ? Castes , human classes. The Dutch divided citizen at the time into 3 classes. First caste were European/Caucasian/White people. Second Arabs, Chinese and Indian. And The Lowest caste were native indonesian also called inlander. This was very racist and inhumanity. Even now Indonesian has to deal with these hatred came from this caste system created by The Dutch
good to hear something about this not so well known history! I do not know if you have also talked about the Caribbean and Surinam, something that I would be very interest at! also about the Dutch invasion of Portuguese forts and posessions in Africa, Asia and Brazil during the 17th ctry... and besides: West Papua still demands an end of Indonesian colonialism, another of those "forgotten" postcolonial conflicts like Timor Leste, Moluccas, Somaliland, West Sahara, etc, etc. Does the UN really solves anything? I am not so sure, it seems that it also has many interests itself...
Why Indonesia did not make a claim also to the Eastern New Guinea (the British New Guinea)?
Then they would've gotten in a fight with Britain and nobody wants that... I think!
@@HistoryHustle In your opinion, were Soekarno at that time would brave enough to fight with the British and annex the Eastern New Guinea?
Actually, he did, unofficially. During an undeclared war called Konfrontasi.
@@HistoryHustle And the Australians in PNG kicked his arse. There were many border incursions.
Could be, I'm not familiar when it comes down to that topic.
A guided democracy is basically consociationalism.
That I ve not heard of yet.
My grandfather was forced to join the KNIL then got captured by the Japanese.
Did he survive?
History Hustle probably not, considering it’s the Japanese
New Guinea still Dutch colony until 1963
True and after a short period under UN it went tot Indonesia.
andryan adhitia no wrong pupa puba New Guinea is used part the of the British empire not Dutch
@@louisbeerreviews8964 new Guinea in East is British but not in west
I disagree that 1952 was the end of colonialism in Indonesia, Ownership of the territory was transferred from the Dutch to the Indonesians. They did not have much in common with the Javanese and other nationalities in Indonesia.
It depends on how you view it. When I was in Aceh the people there mentioned this also and viewed the Javanese as occupiers.
@@HistoryHustle Yes I am aware that there are many different regions and ethnic groups in Indonesia and they have complex and varied attitudes to the numerically dominant Javanese. and each other. As an Australian it is our nearest neighbour and we take an interest in them like you take an interest in France or England. In general the place seems to hang together. In Australia we don't really want instability there.
A Dutch news says that the Dutch marines have used such a force on the terrorists that (Wikipedia claims 15000 bullets fired by the marines), some terrorists had been shot 40 times (I read this on a site called Dutch News, dated 2 December 2013, still available online). It gives the impression that the marines have been ordered to execute the terrorists.
What I especially find shocking is that, this happened during the time of van Agt who gives a very impression of soft-spoken, humanistic impression.
Think the Dutch were kinda fed up with another terrorist attack.
A lot of Moluccans joined Dutch Colonial army. After the war they fled to Europe..
Yes.
They didnt fled, they came on militairy order.
Some of these Moluccans forgot that there are still representatives of NIT operating in the Maluku Islands.
They were keeping the polity presence open and the result of when TNI came once the RMS troops were beaten back,
civil authority were return relatively quickly.
Even those RMS die hards came down from the Seram mountains due to local malukus who with the help of central government finance and local efforts build towns for them to come down and surrendered peacefully.
Also keep in mind that the intellectuals of maluku descent were mostly doctors, and most were instrumental in the development of medical knowledge and technology in Indonesia
Thanks for your comment.
@@HistoryHustle Another interesting side to this conflict which I read from an academic paper, during the rule of dutch east indies. Moluccans elite at the time (aside from aristocrats from the sultanates) formed are mostly christians, serves or have family served in KNIL, they are preferred by the colonial government because of their religions and 'martial race'. As a result most educated moluccans at this time were also from these southern groups at the expense of moluccans from the north. When some rebelled for RMS and failed, most of these elites migrated to the Netherlands. This vacuum facilitated the creation of newer elites which in essence trusted more by Indonesian government (some hold important government positions such as in papua) and was educated under Indonesia and developed by the remaining moluccan elites left (from the sultanates), and as a result they are more likely to be muslim and generally from the north. These newer northern elites were also powerful enough that they managed to create a new province. This is anecdotally can be seen with the stereotype of moluccans to be christians in Indonesia, even though the ratio is around half nowadays not counting moluccans from northern regions. This is also can be seen in moluccan national heros in Indonesia, most of the older national heros from moluccas are almost always christian as they came from dutch-educated elites, while the newer ones are more likely to be muslim which came from the newer elites.
I wonder why indonesia does not use dutch language as their language.. And dutch have no influence in their former colony.
True. Yet, there are many Dutch words in the Indonesian language of today.
Whole of native tribes in indonesia has their own languages. And they use bahasa indonesia as formal language and for the unity.
Yes indeed.
@@fransromy8620 bcs the dutch didn't teach ducth language to the natives. After soekarno declared the independence of Indonesia, the use of dutch language was prohibited
@@seokjinnie7651 most of native are treated as a creature that lower than animal, there's no way dutch teach them their language
New Guinea...this was tied up with Harold Holt Australian PM. Under his Govt Australia started to build a 2nd Nuclear reactor near Nowra its purpose to make nuclear weapons. Holt wanted to have nuke to nuke Indonesia if they wouldnt leave NG alone. It is well documented that he approached UK and USA to source a nuke. When they said no the new nuclear reactor was to be built. That was abandoned after Holt dissapeared at the beach. The footings where the reactor was to be built is still there cut into the clif on the Navy base. May be national park now not sure
Okay, love to visit that area once.
When Indonesia independen its be 3rd largest country . Rusia usa Indonesia
Even before 1959 have nuclear reactor
Sadly its coup by cia and blamed to comunist
This is first time I heard of the story on Dutch side..
Thanks Stefan.
Actually I am waiting the close-up story of around ten thousand people of european descend that left Indonesia to Netherlands, because they get stigmatize during the west Papua conflict..
These people might be Indonesian now if the incident never happen.
Many thanks for your reply, Ahmad.
The terrorist actions remind me of Chechnya. No matter what the cause, when you take it out on the civilian population and especially children, it's a no-win, you will lose any public support. At least the children were okay in the Moluccan case. An interesting video, I had never considered the geographic scale of Indonesia.
Thanks for your reply. Think Chechnya was even more brutal.
"The UN took over control" should be "The dutch goverment handed over control", and there is nothing in this video about the 1000 teachers that were shipped to Dutch New Guinea to eventually make them indipendent (including the making of their own flag and national anthem) OR about the struggle that lives on to this day for the independents of New Guinea (And the FAKE "ACT OF CHOICE"!!)
Other than that, big fan of your work :)
Thanks for the correction and additional information. Cheers!
I've always felt bad for the Moluccans, and I can understand their anger.
I do too.
Australia initially handed back Borneo and the territory in eastern NEI it occupied after WWII to the Dutch but by 1947 supported Indonesian independence. Australia referred the matter to the UN security council and also sent in a peacekeeping force.
www.moadoph.gov.au/blog/merdeka-indonesia-s-independence-70th-anniversary/#
Australia also proposed that Dutch New Guinea be combined with its protectorate in PNG with long term independence of the entire island as the aim. Unfortunately, JFK saw it as a colonial power grab by Australia and did not support the proposal.
You might want to consider a video on the Dutch forces that evacuated to Australia in WWII and cooperated with the Australians and Americans in the SWPA.
Thanks for sharing.
NKRI harga mati..🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩 merdeka
I see..
FWP 🙏 FREEDOM
Di tahun 1950-an banyak sekali orang Indonesia yang sangat cinta pada ratu wehelmina, setia pada Belanda. Banyak yang rela masuk KNIL Belanda mempertahankan negara bagian masing2. Ini adalah hasil kolonialisasi belanda selama 350 tahun. Dari timur ada RMS (Republik Maluku Selatan) sampai ke barat NST (Negara Sumatera Timur)
Thanks for sharing.
17 AGUSTUS 1945-17 AGUSTUS 2023 ADALAH HARI KEMERDEKAAN BAGI BANGSA INDONESIA RAS MELAYU. BEDA DGN HUT BANGSA PAPUA 1 DESEMBER 1961.
English please.
All mollucans are cristiian?you should learn more about the history of indonesia more ...who came first to maluku?muslim or cristian?
My father was one of the highjackers by Wijster. Despite of the fact that there were 3 people shot I'm proud of him because he stood up for what he believed and still believes in. Don't get me wrong, taking another men's life is not something I overlook, approve or condone, absolutely not. But he served his sentence and therefore paid for what he was responsible for.
Thank you for this video. Your channel is one of my favorites when it comes to history explanation, you're doing a great job!
Thanks for watching.
halu nyet
So you’re proud but don’t condone it? Kinda crazy how they makes sense to you.
@@JackBowman-vs6kvproud for what he stood for
My cousin and her family became prisoners of the Japanese after they invaded Indonesia. She was placed in a Japanese camp for women, where many women and their children died of starvation and bad treatment. After the Japanese were defeated, the remaining women prisoners and their children were taken to the square of a local town by members of the Indonesian resistance army. In the square, the Indonesians killed most of the woman and children. Fortunately, my cousin survived and was able to return to the Netherlands.
Indonesia independen day is 17/8/1945. Not like what u say, and indonesia independen not granted, but indonesia fight for its independen. But yes, nederland say indonesia independen day in september.
I stick to my words. The Dutch could've continued the war, but international pressure made them stop. I agree the independence day is 17/8/1945.
This video is much better presented (and the standard of English is higher) than the one I scolded you about earlier. When you say you're a 'history teacher', what does that mean? Are you teaching at an accredited scholarly institution or what?
Thanks for your message. I teach history on a middle/high school to children age 11-18. I have a BA in history and MA in teaching history. Furtermore I have a BA in Performing Arts (film making). Hope this answers your question.
@@HistoryHustle Thanks for your courtesy in responding to my queries: I really value it and you've earned my support. 'BA in Performing Arts': now I understand why I thought you were acting and not a genuine teacher. Please accept my sincere apology.
I never learned acting, more directing and writing when doing bij BA in Performaning arts. I combine it with teaching.
@@HistoryHustle Be carefully selective when employing that media skill: Americanised popular culture styles might result in your not being taken as seriously as you would like (as an actual teaching authority), especially by Europeans. That being said: carry on the good work: you're doing OK.
Why dont you tell the history that Indonesia had to pay 4.5 billion gulden at that time?
Please explain.
@@HistoryHustle I thought you were history teacher..
I repeat my request. Please explain.
@@HistoryHustle You should have known abt this.. Indonesia had to pay dutch foreign debt 4.3- 4.5 billion gulden in 1949.. How come someone like you who teach history knew nothing abt this?.
@@HistoryHustle You knew nothing abt history dude... If you wanna tell history, make sure its a shared history between Indonesia and netherlands. Tell lies no more
Almost big portion they go to US
By end of this decade, the papuan will be minority in West Papua and Papua province. The migration from other islands are making sure of that. The Christian Southtern Molucan that used to support Dutch already forgoting seperate nation. Only some nostalgic Southern Molucan living in Dutch that keep that hope.
Indonesia is the inheritor of Dutch East Indies, and Federation did not work because it's Dutch Invention. Indonesia will stay at it is, simply because of that.
Fair point.
Amnesty International also calls it the slow genocide. Hoping the papuans will disappear enough to make sure they aren't and will never be heard. The fact that you are a minority doesn't mean you aren't right or unimportant.
no wonder there are so many Moluccans have that Dutch Herritage or Dutch Nationalism, there are the place where VOC started Colonizing Indonesia, the place where they first govern natives still using old colonialism principles simmilar to what Spanish would do to natives in Caribbean islands, Submit or Subjugated! first is to make an example by doing Amboyna Massacre 1623. Effective, but that is way too costly, and after Java War 1825-1830 that they realize not interfeering with local political matter is more Sustainable and Profitable.
The best example is the British example.
I see.