Chess Grandmaster suspects Candidate Master is cheating (Interesting position)
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2018
- Note: I don't know if the opponent cheated or not but leave your thoughts in the comments!
This video is for educational purposes only. All rights belong to Jan Gustafsson.
#chess #chesscheating #chessgame #chessmaster - Hry
When I clipped the video I was very new to chess and I quickly followed the sentiment that Jan's opponent really would be a cheater and claimed so in the video title for a while. Thanks to the people posting articles and profiles of Khanya Mazibuko in the comments I found out he's a well known and legitimately good player.
Reading the comments I'm not only one who went with that sentiment, so let that be lesson why we so easily tend to do that. In defense of Jan though, I watched the stream live and he was very overslept that day and also removed the video from the youtube archives shortly after, since he probably didn't know Khanya either. Well, leave your thoughts!
Too many correlations with stockfish, the same is true of him not playing obvious follow-ups, and then he misses mate in 1? Give me a break with this shit.
and the amount of time he took to play such obvious moves... fxg2 is an automatic. so gtfo
Yeah, Im not buying it either. He is not even 2000 Fide and destroyed Jan in the middlegame. Very suspicious.
Yea guys, I still can't tell for sure what's going on, I'm too new to this game and too much noob, but I wanted to give a fair image, since even the minority, some people in the comments posted evidence and opinions for him not cheating and you can even find a comment of Khanya himself. I guess it would help to confirm if that account Jan played against is the same Khanya Mazibuko as is written about in this article www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/check-mate-joburg-teens-endorsed-by-us-chess-grandmaster-to-develop-their-game-in-europe-20180110 if that could be confirmed, I think it's good to say that he wasn't cheating or what do you guys think?
You can find other images of Khanya and Nakamura on Khanyas Instagram and it all lines up to be him, so yea I think it's very safe to say that he wasn't cheating. That must be why Jan deleted the broadcast shorty after from his youtube channel but feel free to post your opinions.
My left ear had a lot of fun watching this with me, great vid!
Your left ear has eyes?
Damn thought my headphones were broken
@@wulffinger mine already had issues so I was this close to throwing mine in the bin lol
@@wulffinger SAMEEEEe HAHAHA
If you hold your phone vertically it goes away!
An easy way to tell if someone's an engine: there's a very risky 4 move combination that works in your favour. You spent 8 seconds finding the first move (often a piece sacrifice), then 8 seconds on the second move, 8 seconds on the third move and 8 seconds on the fourth move. Humans don't do that. A human will spend 1 minute on the first move, then 2 seconds on the other moves.
@Dominus Providebit omg, congratulations! You are an asshole, noob.
Dont worry,chess engine does not miss position.
A chess engine alone of course doesn't need 8 seconds per move. Its when a human uses an engine and plays the moves manually that causes such a consistent delay
Sorry, sounds extremely subjective bollocks that any retard could not adapt an engine to 'look' like a human given half a thought if ts based purely on timing. Deepmind could train 'it' to l'ook' like Bobby Firscher for example, did he play Nigel Short Blitz?.
I think there is no definitive answer in online, and likely, any cheating is or is not happening.
We are still based on trust which does still work for Chess and the majority.
@@LuisParedes-sd3qz no, he argued well. The other guy was trying to attack people's intelligence with the "clearly you don't have experience with engines"
"I don't see the point in such things"
(quietly dies inside)
Lmfao
It's his way of saying that the opponent cheated...so even Jan agrees
Can I go Qb8? Asking for a friend.
😂
Lol!!
genius
It's obvious at 5:55. The cheater plays Bishop h3 (rather quickly) but then really gives himself away when he takes time to play the follow up Rook to c8. You wouldn't play a brilliant move like bishop to h3 if you didn't already know Rook c8 works. He took time to make it look like he's thinking but doesn't realize he should've basically played that move right way lol
That's spot on! Neither of them saw the computer's tactic. Funny and sad at the same time.
But if he used engine, he would not take 20s to follow up with the move. He would do it in around 5s. Furthermore, that move alone isn't winning. It's the mistake from Jan that makes it a winning move which doesn't matter to an engine, but it matters to a human, because he now needs to think if he missed something (he lost a knight after all and on a quick look he might be down a minor piece in the end, so he starts calculating lines). You are forgetting that Jan can't just take the bishop on h3 because his queen is attacked by the rook. The main idea seems to have been to attack the queen. But for that, you would actually need to stop thinking the opponent must be a cheater and think what purpose this move could provide.
So with that in mind, the time it takes to play the winning move is actually evidence for him not cheating, because he needed time to calculate the possible lines.
He wasnt cheating tho
@@Modieof course he would. To make it seem he was surprised. Of course Bh3 and Rc8 go together hand in glove.
@@ocatazzip124absolutely he was cheating.
The audio in this video be like ⬅️
Very professional behaviour by Jan who keeps his calm and composure. Quite impressive.
It's a professional business decision - admitting that cheating is a real problem in online chess like c24 would mean less paying customers.
No, I don't think he wanted to conceal the fact. He pretty much said it, only without calling it out explicitly. I agree with Richard, GM Gustafsson showed tremendous class here.
@@vibovitold Agreed, he comes out of this very well
The measure of a man is not the success he gains, but how he deals with adversity.
GM Gustaffson is someone I can respect for his composure and good grace.
I love Jan is much as the next guy, but this is hardly professional. Instantly accusing another player of cheating just because he found a brilliant move. It happens, even to CMs, that they play well. A true competitor gives his opponent credit and does not try to invalidate the victory.
I really like how he never explicitly calls him a cheater. The titled chess community is small and it would be awkward if he turned out to be wrong. Very diplomatic of him.
He does insinuate it tho, I think thats the same as calling it.
There are tons of Cms honestly.
it most certainly is not the same
black cheaets
@@Isaiah_McIntosh There are 1700 CMs. That's not really "tons" though when you compare it to how many people play chess.
neither do i see the point of such things
Go to South Africa, and you see the point immediately.
Whats happening is SA
it's both, why so angry?
SA is clearly San Andreas
@@LuisParedes-sd3qz no it's South Africa, you self-centered POS.
PLayed flawlessly then missed mate in 1 with 38 secs left. That's atypical of engine cheats! As soon as they're in a time scramble they stop using the engine.
correct
That and his blitzing, plus the erratic draw requests. it's obvious he is cheating
You should know...
Sorry, what mate are you talking about concretely?
Discere ne cessa black queen > f3
I like how as soon as he starts playing on his own he misses mate in one.
Where did he miss mate in one?
If you meant at 9:05, check out the rook on b2.
@GaeasBlessing right before the Queen took a pawn at a4
Help me out here. What is the move that leads to mate in one?
9:14 qf3
Oh, that. I was looking for an earlier mate in one that he missed.
He is a confirmed cheater! I put this game on stockfish and he played every first line of the computer and at the end when he switched of the engine the guy doesn't see Qf3 mat in one??! . Bh3 and Rc8 is a typical perfect combination computerish strike. Yan knows he has been cheated! That s why he told : " i don't see the point of such thing".
If he had taken a long time to find the bh3 rc8 idea then MAYBE but to play it instantly....pffft. No way, definitely a computer. Not only do you have to find rc8 idea but the night can't even sac to bail out with rd8+ because all checks put the black queen covering d8 just too perfect.
he premoved Qxa4 so therefor he didn't see Qf3#
@@skilmirf9708 it wasn't premove i am sorry. He just switched of the engine and tryed to figure it out on his own.
he had like 10seconds left and he's trying to eliminate all white pieces that could win the game in this case the pawns and he played queen takes a4 really quickly im not saying he didn't cheat but im sure he didn't miss the mate is just the fact that his brain already decided something else in this case taking the a4 pawn trust me im around 2730 on this website.
@@skilmirf9708 firslty he had more than 20 seconds. Secondly he took 15 seconds to find a fantastic computer combination yet he misses mate in 1?? Some moves were so obvious that would be premoved....not taking 6 seconds
If you played ..Bh3 you should play Rc8 very quickly - there are no any reason to do that move (black could have played like Ne8 to save the knight). But the opponent was thinking like 40 seconds to do ..Rc8, like playing first computer line, no-finding logic, and looking for the next move.
Its 100% cheater, even without computer analysis.
9:55 Jan.exe stopped working
😂😂😂😂😂
Anyway that was nice to see a GM playing against stockfish
@Harper Jos Grifith I was eyeing that back rank mate so bh3 wasn't hard to spot imo, but after the obvious fxg2 and somehow missing mate that's a clear sign
@@quince537 It wouldn't be hard to spot in a tournament game. This is true. But at this point Jan was already demoralized by black's play - especially the queen moves Qc5 and Qd6. Black had no problem to place his queen on open lines where it can be targeted by the white rooks. Why? Because the engine told him it is safe.
Those kind of moves are always an indicator that an engine is used.
Is it not possible that great players can look like engines as in this era, there probably studying hundreds if not thousands of engine games. Grandmasters are now learning from engines now as there stronger
@@lewiswood8980 No grandmaster is studying engine games. What they do is working with engines in the analysis.
What you learn from enines is that "strange moves" are possible! You have to take them into consideration.
BUT what does it help? In a concrete position you have to calculate yourself. Engines just help to increase the number of "possible moves".
@@stefanp.4094 you dont know a lot 😂😂
GM Gustafsson , you showed incredible class for not getting angry ...I too do not see the point for such things
he has to, isn't he part owner or owner of chess24? it's his business, wouldn't be good for him to get upset on camera while streaming for chess24.
Im from South Africa and Khanya is a local champion. So horrible to see people thinking poorly of African people and their achievements. Shows how racist the rest of the world actually is.
@@TheJavan12345 dude people arent being racist its just he plays suspiciously people cant even see where he lives bro
@@TheJavan12345 It's not racism just a strange player. Not one pre-move in blitz, taking a long time to make a simple move and missing mate in 1.
Chess24 is lousy with cheaters. I can't tell you how many times I get an advantage effortlessly out of the opening, maybe even win a piece.. then suddenly hit a brick wall, with the opponent playing instantly and perfectly for the rest of the game after they switch an engine on. Maddening.
Are there any countermeasures on c24 or other chess plaforms - spotting the typical dead giveaways should be possible after a complaint?
Lol and they’ll not move for 90 seconds and then make perfect moves every 4 seconds the rest of the game
that's why I don't give rematches after winning a game
@@swaginthebanklefty so if I take a minute and a half for a move, then start banging out moves until the end, that's a cheater?
I spend a majority of my time on my early moves trying to decide the direction of play. When that is established, I run with it. Guess I'm a cheater?
Cory Goodman Nah man, but if you make perfect engine moves every 3 seconds then I will obviously think your cheating. It’s very obvious to spot, for example a cheater will still ask the engine obvious moves like a recapture that you or I would premove or blitz out immediately
engine or not, this rook to c8 move is beautiful!
After that, why not Ne7+? If queen takes the Knight you take the queen, If king moves you take the rook, then black queen takes your rook, then you take black bishop and you're up two pieces?
@@Riccardo-nl8xb You can't take the queen because it's a back rank checkmate, that was the whole point of Rc8. But don't worry about missing it, it's an engine move. No human can find that in 10 seconds.
Bh3 is even more beautiful.
@@hthought oh yes, didn't see that
Is Rook c2 a good move? The Knight on d5 is protected by the Bishop, and if black tries to change bishops to take the Knight White just takes the queen without taking the bishop now the rook can't deliver checkmate on c1 because there's the white rook on c2
"f g2 tough decision? Doesn't look that tough, does it?"
A engine rhythm is so easy to spot... the first tactical brilliancy had several forced takes and a human would have premoved some of those recaptures... what an obvious cheat
thats where we see jan has also got the smell
@@mwangikimani3970 What about the instant capture at 7:15?
@@mwangikimani3970 Not all of us pre-move all the time. he may have been cheating but this is weak evidence offered.
@@richarddecredico6098 how about the evidence that all his moves are stockfish first choice and he misses mate in 1
I can hear the echoes of unfortunate discrimination from my right ear XD
The moment you play Bh3 at 5:51 it's because you already saw it's coneccted with the idea of Rc8. In other words you don't spend 19 seconds supposedly thinking about Rc8 next move, this should be the clear cut proof.
Because it's everyday you play a GM, right? And you expect for a GM to fall into such a trap. There is NO WAY that you start questioning yourself when a GM does a move you considered to be a mistake. NO WAY that would ever happen to you. It's far more likely that for some reason he needed 20s to input the move into the engine, get the result and then play the move on the board. You know an action that takes maybe around 5-10s. That is far more likely, especially since you know that there will be a time scramble in the end, because the engine shows you that this is still "only" a -3.
You nailed it. It makes no sense to think after bait was taken. And you know, sometimes half the fun of springing a trap is the moment you swoop in instantly with your surprising counter-move -- to watch your opponent go from temporary confusion to an understanding that they've f'd up.
@@polarvortex3294
The point was that he wasn't doing the move because he thought he would trap his opponent. He was palying a GM after all, not a 1500 rated player. He probably calculated a completely different line with Qxb7, because that would be the move you expect from a GM. If a GM does a move you thought was a mistake, you obviously would never directly try to catch him in the trap, because as I said, you'd assume that you miscalculated. You are so hard trying to somehow make this work in your favor that I have to ask myself if you ever played a game to begin with, because even GMs stop for a moment when they see their opponent do a move they calculated to be a mistake (at least when the opponent is on a certain level).
And Jan handled it with class as always...
This is because it was recorded on stream! Haha!
Good thing otherwise it would've ruined his internet career lol his opponent wasn't even cheating
@@jichaelmackson9773 noooo ofc not he just had a good gaming chair!
"Not paranoid after all" LMFAO XD
Jan is a comic legend!
There's something deeply uncomfortable about the fact that the audio only plays in one ear
Now I know why I keep losing to titled players... They are cheating!
Play in FIDE arena and cheaters will be banned.
@Nathanael Choo Illogical. He wouldn't be able to get a title because of rampant cheating. It's a catch 22
most likely you're not good enough
black cheats
youtube should have a setting that doubles the audio signal for these videos in which the audio is unbalanced
I felt something was wrong when CM took from 0:47 to 1:16, nearly 30 seconds to make move 4, which was only castling. That was the first indication I got.
That is probably when he turned on his engine.
Something felt off after Black played Qd6 no sane person willingly walks into a rook pin like that, Rb8 made sense to stop tricks with Nc7 but to follow up with moves like Bg4 knowing it could be hit by f3 and time it with the combo with Rc8 all but confirmed it for me, the funny part was the constant 6 secs a move until the one-minute countdown, I applaud Jan for keeping his cool and taking the high ground. Still Jan's face at the end you could squeeze it with your bare hands and there'd be enough salt there to create a second dead sea...
Qd6 was what I would of played as it made most sense to me as the other move I saw was Qa5. I couldn't see a way for white to exploit the position of the queen. The rest of the game was very suspicious though and I would say that was a cheater
Wow, that Bh3 Rc8 idea was brilliant.
Trap starts at Rb8
In the end he stopped using the engine, because there was a mate at 9:14, Qf3, that he didn't see.
He was running out of time, that's why he stopped using
You can see exactly when they stoppee cos the moves got faster lol
If you are a tactical genius it's sometimes difficult to spot the easy things like mate in one :D
Its hard to spot under the time pressure
@@thewriterofideas9354 how did they confirm? They recorded themselves playing with no view of engines? That shit doesn't prove anything. You still can cheat, even if it's just for 1 or 2 moves.
"is this still theory? What's going on here?"
-Something Ben Finegold would never say :p
CM = Cheater Master?
Wolfgang Wilhelm CM=Candidate Master
But here it could be Cheating Master ;)
AD Hacking Productions. Woosh
Im a CM and refer to the title as "Clown Master" ;-)
C omputer Master, maybe ;-) (He should be EM: engine master, really...)
Jan mentioned the typical set up for this opening was a3 after Bb4. Black took almost 30 seconds to castle. It struck me as odd. I only know about engines from Suren's videos analysing puzzles, but when there are numerous options, it takes time, I've noticed to scroll down the options, look at the strength bar, etc. So I cannot say more than that here with this player beyond that the lags seemed to show up at silly simple positions with obvious choices. Furthermore, the various offers for draws . . struck me as odd.
I will say, Jan's blithe reaction to the series of knight moves was careless. This was, frankly, not well played by him.
I mean, you don't know the situation. It is actually strange that he would need 30s. Most engines can quickly calculate the best move. Yes, there are some lines who take more time, but you would not wait for the engine to calculate those lines at this point, because they would result in a draw anyway. This 30s time literally says nothing, because it's so early in the game.
Respect for Jan . He knew long ago that he is being cheated
Clearly a cheater. The whole Bh3 and Rc8 motive is extremely hard to see even for a GM in a 3min game. The 6 second fxg2 was the final give away. Shameful.
Yeah, really suspicious. Bhx3+ made very quickly with almost no thought- you will not even see top grandmasters play this way. Moves made at almost the same time interval regardless of the position. No time spent even considering alternative moves based off the quick time stamps. Yeah, in a normal game with no cheating, Jan destroys this fool.
Also anyone spends 1 minute at least on that move, and then plays everything else fast because you had to calculate that beforehand. Here he spends 9 seconds first move, 8 seconds on the other, 8.... like wtf no human would do such a move if he wasn't sure it's winning, you don't calculate after doing the move.
the last few seconds I just wanted to hug Jan , tell him IT IS ALL GONNA BE OKAY:"D
Jan looking for his next opponent, at the end: "Anybody I've played a straight-up chess game against?" Jan
Mr Mazibuko has a rating of not even 2000 in normal chess, 1800 + in Blitz. It is impossible that this is real he without engine. Absolutely impossible. How in the world did he get a chess title with 1959 Elo?
You know when they play a super strange move that only becomes apparent far down the line that you’re cheating because only the computer thinks like that.
That Rook move immediately pinned the accusation was just.
And here we see the reason why I have lost most of my intrest to play chess online. Too many cheaters around!
I guess those guys are so uncertain of themselves they have to boost their self confidence by cheating and rising their rating that way. I don't understand the point though. I would consider cheating a waste of time and the win would be meaningless as I would know I did not win by myself. My target is to get better at chess and eventually push my current rating of 1800 above 2000. Cheating online with an engine does not help me with that.
Even at my level where my opponents are 1700-1950 or so it's easy to spot online when the opponent is using an engine. The level, quality and speed of the moves differ so much when an engine is used.
How do you know how many cheaters aren't spotted? You don't know what you don't know, after all. The odd hint by the engine, or a better coverup of typical giveaways might create more doubt.
In this case, it was obvious to me that this was cheating. Jan is an expert (GM of course) who really knows what he is doing with this opening. He knows the engine moves. If someone is blitzing out best move after best move, then finds a winning tactic instantly, its beyond suspicious. I think we all know the feeling of an engine slowly but steadily crushing our favorite openings we know so well.
But I play a lot of online chess, and for me it is best to assume that your opponent is never cheating. And if they do, its ok. They are just sad people. And its just some rating points. There are other matters that probably annoy me more than cheating. Players who play on with just their king to hopefully draw on time or to hope for stalemate are really infuriating to me.
I personally have almost never seen cheaters when I played chess online.
Tank a chess.com account to 600, then set parameters to pair up.
They may still cheat, but they'll feel like an idiot doing so lol
@@joufaxerxes7966 that is improbable. You either have not recognized when cheating is occurring, or you are exclusively playing in weak-middle ranks
You could call it the reverse Turing test. Hard to prove definitively in a single game.
3:12 *Like 25 moves in* "I guess its all theory?" lol
Well it probably is
"I don't see the point of such things" gotta tell you everything
he used the engine up until Qxf3 then he had Queen vs rook and turn the engine off then blundered the queen... Jan said that it was weird because you can tell a diffrence between player using an engine.Those who don't use know the moves and will immediately capture/fall back but this guy checks the engine first then moves so it takes a couple of seconds.
The microphone is coming through almost exclusively the left side
I saw this show live. Jan wasn't very happy.
All the 900 rated players in the comments crying about how wrong it is to be accusing people of cheating...
How do you know they are 900 rated players? You don't. But YOU do sound like YOU are a chess cheat.
To prove you wrong I am an 800 rated player and I accuse everyone I'm playing against of cheating there is no way I can lose that many times xD
@@JoeMama-kc9lv please read above
What the “i don’t believe this was cheating community” doesn’t get is how hard it is to learn chess. And everybody who has been playing the game for decades knows that the Bh3 tactic is super difficult to find even for a GM. And basically impossible in a 3min blitz game.
Yes, I remember this guy. 5:54 blatant engine move, even though I believe some grandmasters would find it over the board in a blitz game, the speed was just suspicious
White has back rank issues the move wasn’t that ridiculous
What I find amazing is that even though his opponent was cheating he still could have won this game. (4:04) After the only move 23...Rb8 stockfish suddenly spits out 24.Nf4!! with a decisive advantage for white. Seems like you can't play 21...Qxc5 with black here because it always runs into this (even though stockfish thinks its just as strong as 21...Qf7 which probably holds). White just has too much activity. One line goes 24. Nf4!! Qe7 25.Bd5+ Rf7 (25...Kh8? 26. Rxc8! Rxc8?? 27.Ng6+!! is strong) and after 26.Qh5 exf4 the move you have to see is 27. Re1!! completely winning for white. Black would have to give the piece back with Be6 to continue playing, but after 28.Bxe6 the rook is pinned and the game is over.
Seeing all of this would be almost impossible in blitz though. Just thought it was interesting white could win even though black basically played every move perfect (or perfect according to stockfish).
wow!! amazing find, it looks almost a study like combination!!!
Except that if you turn on the engine you will see that they are all stockfish moves so yes stockfish would have allowed that position.
Sure all he needed was "stockfish" to see the win right? LOL I'm sure Jan will remember that next time.
Ron you're pretty thick aren't you mate? Do you think a Cm 2300 could beat Jan?
200 elo is STD?
I'll just post since I frequently watch banter blitz videos and have seen hundreds of IM Eric Rosen's videos, including a good few where he has played and been destroyed by a few computer cheaters in Lichess tournaments, in individual games, as well as Stockfish itself. By the way Khanya played here, I personally agree with the opinion he used an engine to guide his moves in this game. Just my opinion.
Yeah Eric Rosen is another one. When he gets beaten, he blames it on engine cheats. Magnus does the same. It's a disease among better players just as bad as engine cheating.
5:24 26. Rxc8 Bxc8 and if 27. Qc3 stock fish shows +1 but instead Jan went for Qxa7 that led to = -0.19 for white! but yes jan flawlessly played until move 26. Rxc8 that CM was playing with Engine, most possibly with stock fish. Almost 98 percent moves matched.
Rc8 is one hell devastating move
Endgame flaws due to time constraints reveals that this CM is using an Engine.
yup black cheats
Jan's expressions always make me laugh
If a GM 2900 suspects a cheat its a cheat
at 4:38 we have some cool winning line (+3) for white that even stockfish finds only after we give it some extra depth.
solution:
It's Nf4. Black queen has to run (lets say Qe7, but doesnt matter), then we can use bishop Bd5 to force the black king into the corner h8.
At that point, trade our c rook with the bishop Rxc8, and after black taking back Rc8, white Ng6 check, and we are threatening mate if black doesn't give up a rook
Lol this line is insane.
Would be funny if Jan found it, but there is no way a human can find this imo
*"a brilliancy in store"* Jan cracks me uphere
2:42 me on every. single. move
5:36 also me, sure I’ll win
This man experienced TRUE pain...
A huge like for showing what's going on in online chess to everyone! That said, here the GM suspects nothing since it's clear as noon day that it is cheating, well, for anyone above 1800 FIDE at least. There's not much sense in playing against cheaters. However the GM's playing further revealed that the cheater was very primitive. He's no more than Elo 1700. I don't know how he cheated OTB FIDE into 1900. He doesn't deserve even that let alone chesscom allowing him to amass a whopping 2400 in blitz games. FIDE should restrict its policies in OTB so that such patzers don't get even near the 2000 mark! Of course, the cheater didn't see the mate in one at 9:14 (...Qf3#), let alone finishing decently -- he finished like a FIDE 1500 player. Who bestowed a CM on him? FIDE should watch out for cheaters! The CM title normally starts at around 2200. It will take him some years of training to fit into the CM bracket! It's all very funny and sad at the same time. Yeah, the patzer (more like 1500) revealed his face at the end loud and clear. Could not agree more with Jan Gustafsson. It's bad that's such things should go anonymous and that people talk about it anonymously but that's life.
That was exactly what i was thinking. There is no way this player is a CM. He obviously cheated in Otb too. There are many ways(phone on toilet, talking about the position outside with club mates, strange odors that irritate the other players and so on) to gain an unfair advantage. He missed an easy mate in one that even I saw without thinking. He would probably be around 1500-1600 and not more
I like the accusing while not checking the game yourself. Black made the first mistake. If he used an engine, why would he make a mistake that gives white the winning position? The only reason, black got to the winning position was because white made three mistakes in a row. It's on white that they lost and not cheating. Not to mention that the winning move Rc8 was only found after 20s while it's the only move the engine would even recommend to you. As for the missed mate in one. I like how everyone is completely ignoring that the other safe move was done in less than 1s. But yeah, there is enough time to see mate in one there when you already set yourself on a winning strategy, especially when you see your opponent being a GM.
@@Modie Good points. If the cheater doesn't play like Stockfish, like Elo 3600, million times better than Magnus Carlsen, then there's no cheating. This is one the most flagrant cheating cases. It can be seen from a mile away and the GM comments on it. The GM stands no chance in this game against an opponent rated 600 Elo points below him. The GM just can't calculate so fast and so deep as his weak opponent can. So the opponent outcalculates him, forces him into mistakes, into losing pawns and into losing the whole game. Yet in the end the cheater reveals his true face, i.e., he is not 600 Elo points lower but a whole 1000 Elo lower and got his CM title by cheating in actual OTB FIDE tournaments! I'll never believe that a CM would play that badly, even when drunk. It's more like Elo 1500, or 1700 tops judging by end game while in opening and middle game he plays like Elo 2600. I don't believe that. You are free to believe otherwise. Yes, it is easy to accuse. Your point is valid, I guess. It's just I don't think this GM exaggerates things. Whatever the case might be, I have an opinion of my own which is performance doesn't deviate by 1000 points of Elo, not the ghost of a chance. That's my stubborn as a mule take on this issue. Good luck.
One last point: cheaters of course do make mistakes or introduce moves of their own, otherwise they will be banned right away, i.e. after a couple of games. It's overall precision, the CPL (centipawn loss) that shows the quality of the game, as weak players may sometimes overperform by some 300 Elo points while strong players may underperform by some 300 points. When these cases overlap a 600 lower opponent can draw or even win but it usually means that his CPL in terms of Elo is not 600 Elo points higher, and certainly not 1000 Elo points higher. For example, Osmak, Iulija was disqualified and banned for her CPL 11 (11 centipawn loss = - 0.11 per move quality of the play) by FIDE. Cheaters then can go on and explain every move and say how it's not Stockfish playing. Of course, it is not. Stockfish is 3600 and its CPL is almost zero! It's CPL onto itself :))) And if you try to play vs an engine, even an old one, you'll find out that you make 10 times more mistakes than when you play against a human. It means your play will look terrible and amateurish. So, Jan Gustafsson's play looks exactly like that, like the play of a weak player, not like the game of a GM. It also looks like after playing opening and middle game like some 2700 Elo and gaining advantage, Jan Gustafsson lost all hope to win but then his opponent introduced mistakes but not crucial ones, i.e. not enough for the GM to reverse the situation. The GM tried some last ditched attempts to no avail. And end game was played like Elo 1500 and Jan just says there's no point in such things. I will add, seriously, cheating over 1000 points. That's just so flagrant that no words can explain it. I don't even know how to make it more emphatic. It's just like a mouse overpowering a tiger. Very low probability, right? Still a mouse must have some non-zero probability to overpower a tiger?
Only cheaters offer draw to jan.
Yes. An honest player simply does not offer a draw after 15-20 moves.
That was the most suspicious part
Love watching Jan Gustafsson. I don't know how anyone can stand playing online against folks when cheating can be so easily done.
playing online is still better than going to clubs. especially for lazy (like me) or VERY busy ppl....... I welcome the cheaters..... all good practice! :-)
well, cheating isn't as common on all levels.
I'm an average player (1700-1800 range on Lichess), and I very rarely come across someone I'd even suspect of cheating.
other forms of unsportsmanlike behaviour - like letting the clock run out in a lost position - yes, but cheating, hardly.
cheaters don't want to beat guys like me, they're after really strong players, preferably titled players, who're obviously a minority. so it doesn't affect us mere mortals all that much.
I've caught 3 players whose accounts were later terminated from Lichess due to computer cheating and I only played there for around 4 months. I don't see the point of it myself.
Do what I do; tank an account down to 600. People may cheat, but they'll feel like complete idiots cheating against a 600 rating lol
I was browsing, made the mistake of looking over the thumbnail once. Looked again and I couldn't stop laughing.
He didn’t need to take the knight with his queen which led to the rook move and mate he simply could have taken the pawn instead because the knight is poisoned
cheaters must live for such moves like Rc8
People wonder why cheaters waste their time earning fake wins -- perhaps indeed, as you suggest, the thrill of making others shocked and unhappy is the sad explanation for much of it.
SOMEONE ACUSED ME OF USING A COMPUTER, GREATEST COMPLEMENT I EVER GOT!
yes black cheats
His reaction....he was gonna go mad
Cheating seems to happen even at lower levels, where I am. What fun is there in that? Why is it so important to have a high rating when you can never back it up OTB. I have never let my kids use cheats in computer games (the few that they get to occasionally play) and I can now see that one of the reasons is that it might become second-nature for them to cheat. Someone who cheats at online chess would also cheat at solitaire and feel good about it. That kind of mind is kind'a scary.
Only weak players think that the opponent was not cheating. "I could have spotted that move" is pretty much the slogan of weak players trying to defend obviously cheaters.
David Fishman I'm not saying he wasn't cheating. I'm saying he might not be cheating. It's two different things. Even weak players keep an eye open for drag and drop tactics. I pulled a move like this outta my ass the other weak and was so proud, the only thing was it was against a 1700.
D Cap This boy CHOPPED Nakamura in SA during Simul...
I'm a solid master and I can assure you that to find bh3 rc8 idea INSTANTLY no way. If he had taken time that's another matter. But the geometry is too perfect. White can't even sac his knight at the end to play rd8+ because all sacs just happen to put the black queen covering d8. Then this same genius misses a simple mate in 1 in time scramble, definitely cheating.
I got 3,050 at chess24 in blitz and many times I miss mates in 1 move, miss taking pieces and many other things but play very fast and many times very correct moves and I was accussed many times as cheater.
When compared my moves to the engines I don't select the first suggestion, but don't make blunders. Only blunder heavily when the position is open (and there my blunders are horrible because I think less than 2 sec per move because I expect my games last more than 100 moves and I never want to lose on time).
About this game, the combination is very suspicious for a 2,500 player.
That is why you shouldn't play a 5 minute game with cheaters. I could win cheaters at 3 minute games because I play closed position or dead draw positions that last 100 moves and cheaters don't have enough time to use the engines, maybe they could get some advantage (but engines are not so precise at closed games compared to open ones), but when they start playing by themselves (because lack of time) they blunder heavily and lose.
They miss the point. There is a finite number of moves in every position, so there's hardly a move you could positively say an average player couldn't ever spot. Maybe some famous moves, like Shirov's Bh3 or Marshall's Qg3. But this is very rare. Many WC level games consist solely of very logical, non-paradoxical moves each of which *on its own* is within the reach of every reasonable player.
It's all about consistency. It's impossible for a human player to be doing this with perfect accuracy in the long run. This unnatural consistency is a giveaway.
When all your moves take exactly the same amount of time until you're a mile ahead...
His otb Fide blitz rating is just 1889. How on earth can this guy even reach 2500 in the first place ? And when u add the strong tactic in the game which can not be easily seen we must be sure of that he was cheating.
9:15 When you are playing a very good match, but still aren't able to see mate in one.
Wer ist hier wegen rbtv? Bzw wem werden seit dem Schach tournier Videos vorgeschlagen haha
Uh deutsch :o
@@tom.a6335 Deutsch. Aber ja.
@@Randy1337 Dachte ich wäre hier der einzige
I like Gustafson, he has good sense of humor.....for a german 😉
...it's not a laughing matter.
Isn't he swede
NEIN!
@@simohayha6031 Just a Swedish name
As a German, I approve of this comment
RH also played recently too much engine first line, but nobody suspect him
the descripion says chess [2005] ummmmmmm slight error there
The thing, I liked about Jan, that he played very well even against a strong computer, I believe after Rb8 Jan was better.
He was decisively better, my stockfish 9 saw the move 24) Nf4!! after a few minutes (after Rb8) with a 3.0 advantage.
CM cheating?
looks like jan is facing a computer
Online cheating has destroyed the fun out of chess
Thé engine is cm level
Would anyone be so good as to explain how he came to think the opponent was cheating?
His opponent played supurb positional moves including a very tricky and difficult to calculate positional piece sacrifice, and was generally extremely accurate according to stockfish. Then later starts missing mating patterns including a mate in 1. This isn't proof of course but it's suspicious to say the least.
@@harleykf1Gotcha. Thanks for taking the time, mate
Check my comment on top I explain why Bh3 followed by Rc8 is soo strong and impossible to see in 9 seconds.
In short when you calculate a position you think "Ohh this happens, takes, check, and he can't do that because of that, and if he does X i do Y". So you spend a minute calculating all the ramifications of the move, and then play it. When your opponent responds you play in 2 seconds because you already calculated the sequence.
Here the engine is just calculating for him so he takes 9 seconds to find an extremelly 3000 elo move, and THEN takes 8 seconds for the second move, and another 9 for the other... You don't do that, as I say because you already calculated it all or you wouldn't play the sequence in the first place.
Also in 4:00 he plays a completely anti human move Rb8. His Queen is pinned and we see Jan calculating for a long time the position (he is a 3000 elo so he is top level), because he is looking for tactics; having a Queen pinned behind a Knight-Rook is extremely risky because of check discoveries or multiple threats.
Jan didn't find any tactics; the Queen is too well placed; protecting every check as well as every other important piece far away from knight tactics.
Even his opening is what stockfish likes on that line. He takes a lot of time in that opening, engines sometimes do that becuase they are overwhelmed bu the variations, or maybe he is setting the engine... You would expect a Candidate Master to know his openings. His level of CM is nowhere near as good as a GM, CM is not even an official title in some countries and it's not hard to obtain, you can win some tournaments against ok players and win 3 norms to get it... Crushing a GRAND MASTER is a different thing.
you dont need to be good to know Jan's oppoenent was blatantly cheating. use logic. if dont have, match his move to stockfish's moves. if dont computer to analyze, ask ur friend. ok?
I think they should take the title away from this guy in real chess. People who cheat online are likely to be the same players that use the mobile phone on the toilet. And this guy here missed a mate in one(9:15) as soon as he stopped the engine. Would a CM ever miss a mate in one? No, and thats why I think also cheated in otb to gain the title. People always talk about online cheating, but also otb cheating is a bigger issue than you would think. I often noticed my opponents going outside and discussing about the position with other players from his club. Also once i caught someone with a mobile phone. And what was really ridiculous, was when someone took away one of my pawns(he could not take it, he just removed it from the board) when i left the board. I came back and noticed one of my pawns missing.
I think whoever cheats once should be banned from chess forever. They are beeing disrespectful to their opponents and the game.
And how do you explain him making a mistake when using the engine? He did make a mistake and if Jan wouldn't have made three mistakes in a row (from 5:21 onwards) he would have probably won. Missing a mate in 1 under time pressure is also not special. Even happens to higher rated players, because they go for safe moves to not waste any time. After Jan played the King, he didn't even take 1s for his next move, which implies that he didn't even think about what this move implied.
@ 9:56 you can see frame by frame the part when Jan's heart rips in half
The look of defeat on jan's face at the end makes me crack in laughing
He cheated for winning and he will never win again because nobody will want to play with a cheater
the black light square bishop was the champion of the game, first it pushed the white rook up from the back rank (rd1->rd2), and then the bh3 move allowed for rc8 to be so deadly. maybe jan should've responded to bg4 with f3 to both keep his back rank rook and kick this nasty light square bishop away
My left ear tried to enjoy this.
This dude beat Nakamura!!
In a simul, it's not that special.
Even tittled players do that shit.... whatt is the point .... those people have a serious problems
I don't believe he was titled. Title was probably made up to justify his strong play. But when time trouble have started and he stopped using engine he started making huge blunders none CM would make.
CM is not a real title, anyone can have it.
Isn't candidate master 2200 elo and above?
I think 2150. As I said, anyone can do it.
"anyone". If anyone can do it, there wouldn't be a title for it.
I never played chess online so I have o Idea about being an engine or not. I am just wondering at 7:18 why he Jan is not getting the queen instead of the tower? Looks for me like the total wrong decision, do I miss something?
If he takes the queen then black will push the knight down to c1 which will then be checkmate as he cannot block it with either the bishop at g2 because of blacks bishop at h3 and if white moves his castle at d2 down then blacks knight can just take it
@@undeadmens Thank you!! :)
It’s so strange to hear Jan talking English instead of German.
Jesus I need to act this casual when playing
Lol no human plays Rc8 in blitz like that, so pathetic
he found such a killer move, but misses mate in one lol
@@dedfed321 Its not the move Rc8 which is difficult to find, but rather hanging the knight with Bh3. He had to see Rc8 BEFORE playing Bh3 for it to work.
dedfed321 can someone explain to me why cant he play knight E2? I think im blind lol
@@ptbcf4966 quite straight forward. Black queen will simply take it. White queen cant retake black queen on E2 as rook is staring down C8 mate in two.
he did follow his plan, but...i dont even have a chess engine, so i am not sure if engine can make moves stick to a plan. anyway, cheating or not very beatuiful game, better than any of those winning by a mile but lost by time games imo.
and then they suspended me for having up and down performances and NEVER used an engine..... Paranoia... let people play they want, we will check the truth on the real table...
Jan is the man dude he hung in there with that computer and even then he was upset he lost. A great competitor!!