Garrick was a master of operating in the shadows , but there is no doubt of the loyalty in his heart for his home world to the very core of his being. Garrick is not only willing to die for Cardassia but also willing to endure and fight through great pains and struggles to serve it. Garrick was my favourite character. “For Cardassia!!!”
@@fozzy1004 Garak was the greatest of patriots, not for what Cardassia had been in his life, but for what Cardassia used to stand for and what it could be once more. Before the end of his life, Damar had begun to understand that which Garak had already known for years.
@@fozzy1004 'It is easy to die for one's country. It is far harder to live for it.' Garak is one of the select few who actually do try to live for his planet, and keep true to it. Damar was a hero, and Garak honoured the sacrifice of his comrade in the only way he could. He rallied the others. Kira may have relayed Damar's orders, but Garak was the one who galvanised them.
Damar went from a broken drunk to the inspiration for his people. No doubt he'll be a sainted martyr of Cardassian legend credited for defeating the Doimnion after this.
Damar was a patriot and loyal soldier who lost his way in the bottle he had always enjoyed a little too much as he took refuge from the reality of Dominion oppression. Yet, he came to his senses and found his true self again. Early, his patriotism and loyalty led to his casual brutality and even killing Ziyal. Later he was someone even Kira could assist. His story arc and performances are examples of DS9’s excellent writing, acting, and direction. Even Casey Biggs’s brief role as a doctor in the psych ward of the Pagh Wraiths’ false visions to Sisko was well done.
That moment when Damar dies, there’s that moment of doubt, the thought that this will all come apart... Garak doesn’t know what to do. Damar was the standard bearer. Then Kira makes it clear they don’t stop, and Garak realises what’ll happen if they don’t go forward, picks up the fallen flag and runs with it. Love it.
In Beta Cannon he goes on to be one of the leaders of Cardassia, sometimes openly in public office, sometimes secretly behind the scenes, but Garak plays a massive part in rebuilding his people.
Man Damar's character arc from warmongering bloodthirsty soldier of an oppressive empire to war-weary revolutionary fighting for his people against an oppressive empire may be the best character arc in a Star Trek show.
DS9 has so many amazing arcs, you could make an argument for several. Nog, Kira, Sisko, Quark.. so much gold. Even the lesser arcs were great. I love how they handled Jake Sisko, for example. Never got annoying and they broke the cliche by him having no interest in Star Fleet.
The Cardassians were one of "the bad guys" for most of TNG and DS9, the enemy you wanted to see fail. Then along comes this scene and damn. For Cardassia indeed.
@@K-11609 Yeah perhaps, at least based on the line here. I do like an earlier scene (can't remember if this episode or an earlier one), where she actually confides in "my loyal Weyoun, the only solid I have ever trusted" about her frustration and dismay at the Founder plague. That one makes me think she must be mourning here, just a tiny bit.
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that need, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand." -Citizen G'Kar of the Narn, Babylon 5
If wormhole did not contain Prophets, there would be an endless supply of Dominion troops. The Alpha Quadrant would fall. This demonstrates how efficient Dominion is. They control the Gamma Quadrant. They are still in charge of their domain. Alpha Quadrant suffered a lot.
What I liked about how Andrew Robinson portrayed the character was that he was always dispassionate, which means it was never personal for Garak until this scene.
In not a fan of any Trek but DS9. TNG and Voyager has their moments but generally boring to me. Being a History Major the Spicalpolitics of the DS9 have always fascinated me, the shifting alliances and the slow burn between the Federation, Klingons, Cardassia and the Dominion make for some good SIFI
The respect Kira showed Damar in the end was amazing. She easily could have just said keep going. She instead tells them his orders were clear we don't stop. She gives him a true heroes end and humbles herself by allowing him to be the hero of cardassia. It shows how much she evolved from the 1st season. Damar having earned that respect shows how he underwent a similar evolution. IMO one of his best lines was when the rebellion formed. He told russot I did hate her, but that is a luxury I can no longer afford , and neither can you.
It's terrifying how committed the Female Changeling is to fight until the bitter end. She knows she's dying, her race is dying, and she's perfectly fine with dragging everyone else down with her. That is where Section 31 made the mistake when they infected them. They made the Founders desperate, and all the more dangerous because of it. Superb acting by Salome Jens.
Section 31 made a great play when they infected the changelings. It's the only thing that brought them to the negotiating table and it placed the peace-loving Odo in a position to spread his mindset through the whole Collective of the Founders. But then I have an odd headcanon that Miles O'brien was a Section 31 operative and his role in this particular plan was to handle Julian Bashir and make sure Odo could be trusted. if Odo could be trusted, O'brien would stage manage Bashir getting the cure (if you'll note in the episode every move of the plot to get the cure was Bashir going along with something O'Brien wanted him to do) and Odo would transmit both the cure and his more peace loving mindset into the collective as a package deal. This was the plan to avoid the genocide inherent in the original bioweapon. even Section 31 has limits in how far it would go.
@@hagamapama It did, but it didn't. They were going to lose the war either way. The disease *reinforced* their view of the solids, especially the Federation. The Founders might not have been so hardcore in their resistance if some didn't try to literally wipe out their entire species
I always wonder how much ignorance played a role in the decision compared to malice? I keep thinking that for many involved it might have been thought of as like removing the Jem’hadar ability to cloak or otherwise incapacitating the founders without killing them. Thus “humanly” dealing with the problem of changeling infiltrators. Of course the reality was that the Founders weren’t immune to the need to regenerate, just able to go longer than Odo. And so perhaps unwittingly the Federation attempted to cause genocide via sleep deprivation.
DS9 had such underrated writers. They took Damar, a nothing character that could’ve been easily forgotten and turned him into a hero and someone we were sad to see go. In a way his arch is mirrored by all Cardassia
The cool thing was this was their plan more or less for the character. Casey Biggs thought little of the character and considered quitting but was told he will have a bigger part
Damar murdered a girl for being a "traitor", only to eventually become a traitor hero himself. What a turnaround... his sins did catch up to him in the form of his ultimate fate, but he was also a Cardassian through and through and Cardassia will remember that.
Cardassia was betrayed when Dukat joined the dominion, and the dominion betrayed cardsssia when they let 500k Cardassian solders die with no reinforcements. Dukat is a patriot, not a traitor.
@@rowlandbuck2703 and you want to hear something else cool in Star Trek online one of the new Cardassian ships that came out with the Gamma pack at least I think that's what it was called, you'd have to check in the Zen store in the game, is from the Damar class.
@@rowlandbuck2703 Dukat is no patriot - an egomaniac that will do whatever necessary to keep himself in power. He arrogantly assumed that, after the Federation was defeated, the Cardassians could free itself from the Dominion. He failed to realize that joining the Dominion was a one way street - there was no way out.
It's brilliant that for once we see Garak genuinely disgusted, usually at these big reveal moments he is standing there with a huge grin on his face but not this time, because this time it's personal
@@InfernosReaper The Script said Damar gets taken out by a random Jem Haddar. Casey Biggs, the actor who played Damar, said Fook That, if Damar is going to get wasted, he's going out like John Wayne with two guns blazing....The Director agreed with him!!!
@@InfernosReaper Avoidable, but consider that to get into the command center they needed to breach that door. And to do that they needed to breach past the Jem'Hadar and gain the lobby. So a mad charge was there only recourse.
@@danielhaire6677 Exactly, Damar did what he had to do. There was no other option for him. He was the leader and hero Cardassia needed and when the critical moment came he didn't hesitate. He knew the stakes and made the right choice, inspiring his troops and urging them on with his dying breath. If he doesn't charge they don't succeed, it's as simple as that, not to mention he takes out 3 Jem'Hadar before falling. His sacrifice saved millions of lives.
He had to die. Cardassia had to be torn down to the ground so it could be rebuilt stronger. As much as Damar had learned, he was still a member of the junta that had been holding Cardassia back for decades, and he would have rebuilt the Cardassian military order that was the single biggest source of Cardassia's problems first and foremost. Now with Garak pulling the strings, the military decimated and the Detapa Council firmly in control, the military can be kept in line and civilian recovery can be the priority.
What about Garak. Plus, the plot with him becoming the leader of the resistance is meant to redeem him. He kinda had to die though, as poetic justice for Ziyal.
"You two! Get out there and see to it that NO ONE gets through this dor. You two! Stay here... (muttering low) in case they fail" I laughed a lot harder than I should have at that at 4 AM xD
“You two, make sure no one gets through that door! You two, stay here, in case they fail.” You can always rely on Weyoun to have some of the best lines. Also at 1:24 you can see a D7 Klingon Battle Cruiser, which shows just how desperate the Alpha Quadrant races were for ships by the end of the war. If the Klingons were dusting off their ships from the 23rd century to fight in this war, you can only imagine what the Klingons and the Federation were doing to make sure they had enough ships to continue the war, the lengths they all had to go to just to keep their lines from collapsing. Still, pretty impressive that an old D7 managed to get this far, despite being so old and fighting against such a formidable foe.
I mean, Starfleet was not much better - how many Mirandas got dusted during this attack? More impressive were the romulans - they send nothing but warbirds
@@momokochama1844 Those warbirds weren't really designed for straight up front line fights. The Romulans have always been about hit and run sneaking attacks.
@@ToolofSociety maybe, but call it romulan arrogance or whatever - they send the best they had. they didn't burden themself with ships nearly a century old 🖖
2:31 - "Well, Colonel Kira - what a pleasant surprise." Weyoun says, as he moves from partially shielding the Founder with his body to giving Kira a clear line of fire if she chose to take it.
His first reaction was to shield the founder though. Weyoun analysed the situation and knew that the Founder was in no danger from their captors, he did fail to realise that Garak's opinion of Damar had changed however.
The Cardassian at 0:50 seemed to hesitate, but Garak shouting “For Cardassia!” pushed his doubts aside. It wouldn’t surprise me if Garak did that because he knew the moment required it. Damar dying and Kira giving an order would naturally make the others hesitant. Garak was smart enough to recognize the situation.
Just to think back, the Founder: Brought in Been -> Pissed off Damar -> Cardassian revolt Exert revenge on Cardassian -> Cardassian troops & ships turned against them -> new ally for federation Execute Cardassian puppet -> open door for the rebels -> Female changeling captured & Weyoun dead The Dominion only good at swarming JemHadar & Vorta clones & ships. Their shortcomings were exposed towards the ending of war.
That was the founder's achalies heel-that the a race would rather die on it's feet than live on it's knees when they have centuries of being their own masters.
@@robertchapman625 after so long being utterly dominant in the gamma quadrant, it was incomprehensible to the dominion to find a subject who would not fold. An enemy who would not give in even in the face of extermination.
A species that wishes to kill or subjugate all sentient life is incompatible with a species who wishes to live together with other species. Something had to give.
I remember watching these episodes with a good friend. Every week we would be like “Yes!!!! Go Damar!!! Freakin Damar!!! “. I miss this show. If this franchise can reboot anything, bring me back to Deep Space 9.
DS9 had a big budget, relatively speaking, able to accommodate a lot of great new sets, Emmy-winning costumes, makeup, and VFX, and a huge recurring guest cast. But the finale definitely stretched their resources - lots of stock footage in climactic moments, and tiny claustrophobic sets like this one and the caves where Sisko and Dukat face off. But the ambition of the storytelling outshines it all.
The founders really didn't understand Klingons. No victory no matter how pyrrhic feels like a defeat to them, just means more warriors earnt their passage to Sto-Vo-Kor.
I think it was more directed at the Federation who was the real threat at that point. It isn't explained much in the show but the Federation had fully entered a war footing at that point and it was starting to really expand its military capabilities. The Romulans joining was the turning point but the Federation was ramping up as well with new start classes, recruits, etc.
Odo's return to the Great Link must have rocked it to its foundation. He literally saved his species from extinction (except for whomever among the 100 infants survived), but the perspective he brought with him challenged everything. The Founder had talked about their being "disagreement" in the Link for the first time, after Odo had killed another Changeling. It must have been worse than that, though. Odo was his peoples' savior, and the destroyer of their culture. Even those who accepted his ideas would have to confront the fact that their reaction to being hunted and oppressed was in fact to be even worse. They were abuse victims and ultimately hypocrites of high order. But they would have seen the other side, too. Odo's memories of friendship and even love amongst the solids. It was why Odo couldn't just cure his people and leave again. He knew that helping them rediscover their past as a society of open explorers would likely consume the balance of his lifetime - why might well have been thousands of years, since the Founder had said that they hadn't expected any of the "infants" to return for a period on the order of 500 years.
Even now, I have to stop myself from screaming it in the shower. I know those acoustics would echo it around the bathroom in the most beautiful fading loop..... but my neighbours would think me a freak, wouldn't you think. And don't go thinking that hyping Bajor would leave me in any better standing, as it won't.... and I won't!!!!
The irony being: Cardassia labeled the Bajorans as terrorists for fighting for their freedom. Now the Cardassians are the terrorists for fighting for theirs.
Female Founder: 'That was Weyoun's last clone..." Me Watching at Home: "... couldn't you just clone him again later? I know you're cloning facilities are down right now, but you've got a whole corpse worth of genetic material right there. Just take some samples."
Maybe cloned Vorta degrade too fast for that? 🤷♂️ I mean, even the Kaminoans started having problems with their new Clones because the original genetic material from Jango Fett was eroding.
In fact I think the only Dominion cloning facilities that were still operating were back in the gamma quadrant! And with the prophets protecting the wormhole no way to access them.
@@MrDibaraI think there is more to this. It's not just cloning his genetic material, the vorta being clones with intact memories makes them indispensable for their accumulated skills and information. I assume that if you don't clone them fast enough, genetic material or otherwise, they'll lack the same talent because brain neurons degrade rapidly.
I think my favorite part of DS9 were the villains. I hate it when bad guys are bad guys because it's their job to be the bad guys. The villains in DS 9 were morally complex, sometimes twisted, but capable of love and good deeds. Some had redeeming qualities. They were hateable, tragic, noble, brave, cowardly, treacherous,and loyal by turn or all at the same time. I think Garrick was ultimately my favorite character.
I spent the entire show hating the cardassians for what they did and what they had stood for but i wouldnt have shame to admit i let out a "FOR CARDASSIAAAAAA!" when i watched this scene.
The female changeling is my favourite villain in star trek. She is impressively cold, holding herself monumentally aloof from the lesser beings. Then there is that wonderful, placidly delivered, malice. She is just great, the founders are great. Truly despicable creatures, wonderful.
Legate Broca getting bayoneted by the Jem'Hadar was a shame. How will his 5 kids feed themselves now?? *Note The actor who played Broca was the same actor who played Benny the cab driver in Total Recall. " Heyyyyy man, I got FIVE kids to feed!"* EDIT: The next scene at 0:18 always makes me laugh. The two Jem'Hadar just come round the corner and start blasting like fucking lunatics. No target checking or anything, just free firing at anything that moves!! They either don't care about friendly fire, or their enhanced brains allow them to react and ascertain who is the enemy in a split second.
I doubt Damar could've remained as a leader after the war. War-time leaders/heros rarely make peace-time leaders in a sense that their mindset is typically built for quick thinking, strategy, plotting and duty. Besides, his chequered past may have precluded his rise to leader and the Cardassian Government was a Council. From a political viewpoint I'd very much like to have seen what became of the Cardassians, its people, its government and its relationship with Bajor in the years after the Dominion War. Did they become the unwanted underdogs of the AQ? Did it bring unity between Bajor and Cardassia or were the wounds just too deep? I know we get a very limited glimpse in DIS that suggests they prospered, but it seems like the Cardassians are pretty much never to be seen again on any series post-DS9
It would take at least a generation or two to recover. It was mentioned the brightest minds were all killed. All those scholars, scientists, artists, were likely put to death since the Jem'Hadar and Vorta could take the place where it was needed. The uprising lead to where they couldn't trust anyone who had status or a brain. With that said, since there was no final battle to the death, there would be a huge surplus of Cardassian soldiers and equipment so not sure how that would fit into the new order of civilian leadership. My only thought is perhaps the world would be occupied by a force of Federation, Klingon, and Romulan ruling members for some time. After Shinzon and the Romulan supernova, it's likely the Romulan's would lose interest to take care of internal matters. That would leave just the Klingons and the Federation to carry on. I'd say by the Picard series there should be some level of a rebuilt civilian empire.
Man seeing that old D7 in there...like ok this is it. Its been a very VERY long drawn out war and all of the allies are basically throwing whatever they have left into the frey. Only thing that would have made it AMAZING would be a Constitution Refit in there..or maybe a Galaxy Class saucer separated.
Garak shooting Weyounn for talking about Damar is the most satisfying death in the history of tv
Daniel Monaco agreed! I although I was hoping damar was gonna do it.
worf snapping a previous weyouns neck was also pretty satisfying
right next to Joffery dying in Game of Thrones
I was hoping you'd say that
He shot Weyoun for gloating about the slaughter of the Cardassian people.
Damar took like seven shots center mass ........... he died like a champ.
From disruptors, no less.
I thought the same thing when I first saw this episode. Took 7 disruptors and was still able to hang on for a few seconds to spout orders.
Best character arc in all of Trek
@@pendraco2000 that's what I was thinking, seven shots from goddamn Jem'Hadar weapons.
@@pendraco2000
I thought Jem'Hadar assault rifles were Polaron weapons.
Man, I remember running around school with my friends shouting “For Cardassia!”
I envy you (in the cordial way), here in my country, Star Trek is very underrated....I played alone in my childhood ='(
The best friend will do crazy thing with you.
You had an awesome childhood to have other Trek fans at that age.
Nerrrrrrrrrd
@@josharnold3450 I like Star Trek, but I'm not going to start yelling nerdy space slogans and shit.
And its Garrick, the quiet assassin, who preferred to work from that shadows, who takes up the battle cry, and shouted it loudest from his heart
Garrick was a master of operating in the shadows , but there is no doubt of the loyalty in his heart for his home world to the very core of his being. Garrick is not only willing to die for Cardassia but also willing to endure and fight through great pains and struggles to serve it. Garrick was my favourite character. “For Cardassia!!!”
@@fozzy1004 Garak was the greatest of patriots, not for what Cardassia had been in his life, but for what Cardassia used to stand for and what it could be once more.
Before the end of his life, Damar had begun to understand that which Garak had already known for years.
@@fozzy1004 'It is easy to die for one's country. It is far harder to live for it.' Garak is one of the select few who actually do try to live for his planet, and keep true to it. Damar was a hero, and Garak honoured the sacrifice of his comrade in the only way he could. He rallied the others. Kira may have relayed Damar's orders, but Garak was the one who galvanised them.
"Garrick"
@@frndrmnJay?
Damar went from a broken drunk to the inspiration for his people. No doubt he'll be a sainted martyr of Cardassian legend credited for defeating the Doimnion after this.
Just like Jimmy Reynor from another sector...
A worthy memorial. Nobody in your country's history is perfect.
And the founders went from cool amd calculating to Spoiled children.
Or maybe they always were.
@@Rensune Spoiled Children can seem so mature, until they don't get their way.
Damar was a patriot and loyal soldier who lost his way in the bottle he had always enjoyed a little too much as he took refuge from the reality of Dominion oppression. Yet, he came to his senses and found his true self again. Early, his patriotism and loyalty led to his casual brutality and even killing Ziyal. Later he was someone even Kira could assist. His story arc and performances are examples of DS9’s excellent writing, acting, and direction. Even Casey Biggs’s brief role as a doctor in the psych ward of the Pagh Wraiths’ false visions to Sisko was well done.
That moment when Damar dies, there’s that moment of doubt, the thought that this will all come apart... Garak doesn’t know what to do. Damar was the standard bearer. Then Kira makes it clear they don’t stop, and Garak realises what’ll happen if they don’t go forward, picks up the fallen flag and runs with it. Love it.
Garak: FOR CARDASSIA!
@@Yasuda9000 Other Cardassians: FOR CARDASSIA!
@@samsticka Morn:
In Beta Cannon he goes on to be one of the leaders of Cardassia, sometimes openly in public office, sometimes secretly behind the scenes, but Garak plays a massive part in rebuilding his people.
And Kira keeping her former enemies' fighting spirit alive at that brief yet critical moment was extremely powerful!
Man Damar's character arc from warmongering bloodthirsty soldier of an oppressive empire to war-weary revolutionary fighting for his people against an oppressive empire may be the best character arc in a Star Trek show.
Don't forget his first job as q glorified truck driver
DS9 has so many amazing arcs, you could make an argument for several. Nog, Kira, Sisko, Quark.. so much gold.
Even the lesser arcs were great. I love how they handled Jake Sisko, for example. Never got annoying and they broke the cliche by him having no interest in Star Fleet.
The Cardassians were one of "the bad guys" for most of TNG and DS9, the enemy you wanted to see fail. Then along comes this scene and damn. For Cardassia indeed.
Love this comment. For Cardassia
Never wanted them to fail. Spoonhead supremacy for the win.
Nope still a child murderer.
@@theyux1 what, all of them?
@@wakeyskate damar
1:42 Martok: it will be glorious battle
Admiral: but a costly one
Martok: you don't have to repeat what I said
The Dominion War was basically like a Klingon wet dream
@@volbound1700 low chance for success, certainty of death... Well, what are we waiting for?!
"I wish you hadn't done that"
I always found that line delivery hilarious.
Even when mourning her trusty lieutenant, she still can't muster up THAT much sadness for a solid. Wonderfully evil bastards, those Founders.
Feel Changeling: That was Weyoun's last clone.
@@jerodast less mourning and more…I would say disappointed about the situation
@@jerodast Yeah, she just sounded inconvenienced by his death.
@@K-11609 Yeah perhaps, at least based on the line here. I do like an earlier scene (can't remember if this episode or an earlier one), where she actually confides in "my loyal Weyoun, the only solid I have ever trusted" about her frustration and dismay at the Founder plague. That one makes me think she must be mourning here, just a tiny bit.
This is gonna sound strange, but I love how DS9 had so many scenes with zero human characters present.
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that need, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand." -Citizen G'Kar of the Narn, Babylon 5
Gkar would have been a great Mentor to Damar
😏Well Said.
The founders start hearing the song "No hiding place."
One person defending their home is worth a hundred knights...
The crusades taught me that
If wormhole did not contain Prophets, there would be an endless supply of Dominion troops. The Alpha Quadrant would fall. This demonstrates how efficient Dominion is. They control the Gamma Quadrant. They are still in charge of their domain. Alpha Quadrant suffered a lot.
Most epic last words ever: "Keep-"
Didn't have time for more, but it was enough.
o7
Garak's eyes before the kill... Absolutely chilling.
What I liked about how Andrew Robinson portrayed the character was that he was always dispassionate, which means it was never personal for Garak until this scene.
Actor's just got one of those "imma kill you and dump your body in the trash compactor." kinda looks.
Weyoun honestly deserved it though. I cheered for Garak when he pulled the trigger on that phaser.
Scorpio killer!
Gowron eyes
DS9 was probably the most realistic portrayal of how different humanoid species would react to each other. I loved it because it was realistic.
In not a fan of any Trek but DS9. TNG and Voyager has their moments but generally boring to me. Being a History Major the Spicalpolitics of the DS9 have always fascinated me, the shifting alliances and the slow burn between the Federation, Klingons, Cardassia and the Dominion make for some good SIFI
@@mikejohnson3387 They should do a continuation of DS9. I would like to see how the Alpha quadrant turns out.
DS9 and the Enterprise show from the early 2000s are the best Star Trek shows.
Thor's Hammer Enterprise was awful. That ballad opening turned me off immediately.
I’d say enterprise was but it’s still brilliant
The respect Kira showed Damar in the end was amazing. She easily could have just said keep going. She instead tells them his orders were clear we don't stop. She gives him a true heroes end and humbles herself by allowing him to be the hero of cardassia. It shows how much she evolved from the 1st season. Damar having earned that respect shows how he underwent a similar evolution. IMO one of his best lines was when the rebellion formed. He told russot
I did hate her, but that is a luxury I can no longer afford , and neither can you.
No, she was giving orders to Cardassians without them taking orders from Bajoran.
"Yeah, Damar, what type of people do that?"
Damar: For Cardassia!! LEEEEEEEROOOOOY JEEEENNNNKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's terrifying how committed the Female Changeling is to fight until the bitter end. She knows she's dying, her race is dying, and she's perfectly fine with dragging everyone else down with her. That is where Section 31 made the mistake when they infected them. They made the Founders desperate, and all the more dangerous because of it.
Superb acting by Salome Jens.
Section 31 made a great play when they infected the changelings. It's the only thing that brought them to the negotiating table and it placed the peace-loving Odo in a position to spread his mindset through the whole Collective of the Founders.
But then I have an odd headcanon that Miles O'brien was a Section 31 operative and his role in this particular plan was to handle Julian Bashir and make sure Odo could be trusted.
if Odo could be trusted, O'brien would stage manage Bashir getting the cure (if you'll note in the episode every move of the plot to get the cure was Bashir going along with something O'Brien wanted him to do) and Odo would transmit both the cure and his more peace loving mindset into the collective as a package deal. This was the plan to avoid the genocide inherent in the original bioweapon. even Section 31 has limits in how far it would go.
@@hagamapama *Odo* brought them to the table, not the disease itself. Even without the disease, Odo still could've negotiated peace.
@@InfernosReaper But the disease definitely gave the changelings an actual reason to listen to Odo.
@@hagamapama It did, but it didn't. They were going to lose the war either way.
The disease *reinforced* their view of the solids, especially the Federation. The Founders might not have been so hardcore in their resistance if some didn't try to literally wipe out their entire species
I always wonder how much ignorance played a role in the decision compared to malice?
I keep thinking that for many involved it might have been thought of as like removing the Jem’hadar ability to cloak or otherwise incapacitating the founders without killing them. Thus “humanly” dealing with the problem of changeling infiltrators.
Of course the reality was that the Founders weren’t immune to the need to regenerate, just able to go longer than Odo. And so perhaps unwittingly the Federation attempted to cause genocide via sleep deprivation.
DS9 had such underrated writers. They took Damar, a nothing character that could’ve been easily forgotten and turned him into a hero and someone we were sad to see go. In a way his arch is mirrored by all Cardassia
The cool thing was this was their plan more or less for the character. Casey Biggs thought little of the character and considered quitting but was told he will have a bigger part
Ever since his speech he made after the Bremen joined the Dominion, Damar was the man. I wonder if Quark will have some Damar’s Kanar drink on DS9.
Breen not Breman.
Damar murdered a girl for being a "traitor", only to eventually become a traitor hero himself. What a turnaround... his sins did catch up to him in the form of his ultimate fate, but he was also a Cardassian through and through and Cardassia will remember that.
*YOU really want to fight & die for Cardassians &, or Cardassia? (◔_◔)*
honestly, i don't damar minded dying like that at all.
Cardassia was betrayed when Dukat joined the dominion, and the dominion betrayed cardsssia when they let 500k Cardassian solders die with no reinforcements.
Dukat is a patriot, not a traitor.
@@rowlandbuck2703 and you want to hear something else cool in Star Trek online one of the new Cardassian ships that came out with the Gamma pack at least I think that's what it was called, you'd have to check in the Zen store in the game, is from the Damar class.
@@rowlandbuck2703 Dukat is no patriot - an egomaniac that will do whatever necessary to keep himself in power. He arrogantly assumed that, after the Federation was defeated, the Cardassians could free itself from the Dominion. He failed to realize that joining the Dominion was a one way street - there was no way out.
"He died trying to free Cardassia"
"What's left of it..."
🤣🤣
I hope we see a post-Dominion War Cardassia at some point. I wanna see the statues of Damar they've built there.
You might get that in Star Trek Online. Certainly there is a Cardassian Dreadnought, called the Damar Class
They become valued members of the federation buy the 4340s
3:16
"I was hoping you'd say that."
Damn if that wasn't such a satisfying thing for him to say in that moment.
It's brilliant that for once we see Garak genuinely disgusted, usually at these big reveal moments he is standing there with a huge grin on his face but not this time, because this time it's personal
FOR CARDASSIA!!!!!
The actress who played the female Founder is one hell of an actress.
When people say they want a more gritty realistic Trek, just show them DS9
People who want gritty Trek have something wrong with them.
1:24 Probably the most diverse fleet ever seen in Star Trek.
Damars death was one of the most memorable for me from ds9. I shed tears.
It's up there with Jadzia's and Old Jake's
Man, Kira's character arc amazes me.
Damar fought with honor
Damar ran head-first into danger, dying an easily avoidable death, after first redeeming himself.
@@InfernosReaper The Script said Damar gets taken out by a random Jem Haddar. Casey Biggs, the actor who played Damar, said Fook That, if Damar is going to get wasted, he's going out like John Wayne with two guns blazing....The Director agreed with him!!!
@@InfernosReaper Avoidable, but consider that to get into the command center they needed to breach that door. And to do that they needed to breach past the Jem'Hadar and gain the lobby. So a mad charge was there only recourse.
@@danielhaire6677 Exactly, Damar did what he had to do. There was no other option for him. He was the leader and hero Cardassia needed and when the critical moment came he didn't hesitate. He knew the stakes and made the right choice, inspiring his troops and urging them on with his dying breath. If he doesn't charge they don't succeed, it's as simple as that, not to mention he takes out 3 Jem'Hadar before falling. His sacrifice saved millions of lives.
Man, Damar's death was so sad. He was the one Cardassian whom I liked, I'm annoyed that he died
He had to die. Cardassia had to be torn down to the ground so it could be rebuilt stronger. As much as Damar had learned, he was still a member of the junta that had been holding Cardassia back for decades, and he would have rebuilt the Cardassian military order that was the single biggest source of Cardassia's problems first and foremost.
Now with Garak pulling the strings, the military decimated and the Detapa Council firmly in control, the military can be kept in line and civilian recovery can be the priority.
@@hagamapama You underestimate what Damar had learned. He had grown considerably since the rebellion began.
You didnt like garak? Garak was the fuckin man, man!
What about Garak.
Plus, the plot with him becoming the leader of the resistance is meant to redeem him. He kinda had to die though, as poetic justice for Ziyal.
*YOU really want to fight & die for Cardassians &, or Cardassia? (◔_◔)*
Garak's arc as a despised outcast of his people to a returning hero who helped save the entire planet is epic.
3:45 Best Star Trek Villain EVER.
"You two! Get out there and see to it that NO ONE gets through this dor. You two! Stay here... (muttering low) in case they fail"
I laughed a lot harder than I should have at that at 4 AM xD
“You two, make sure no one gets through that door! You two, stay here, in case they fail.”
You can always rely on Weyoun to have some of the best lines.
Also at 1:24 you can see a D7 Klingon Battle Cruiser, which shows just how desperate the Alpha Quadrant races were for ships by the end of the war. If the Klingons were dusting off their ships from the 23rd century to fight in this war, you can only imagine what the Klingons and the Federation were doing to make sure they had enough ships to continue the war, the lengths they all had to go to just to keep their lines from collapsing.
Still, pretty impressive that an old D7 managed to get this far, despite being so old and fighting against such a formidable foe.
The Klingons are like the old Soviet Union, no useful weapon ever gets thrown away. It's stored and upgraded for future use
@@loudelk99 Indeed following how the Klingons do things that D7 should be heavily upgraded in at least weapons and shields.
I mean, Starfleet was not much better - how many Mirandas got dusted during this attack?
More impressive were the romulans - they send nothing but warbirds
@@momokochama1844 Those warbirds weren't really designed for straight up front line fights. The Romulans have always been about hit and run sneaking attacks.
@@ToolofSociety maybe, but call it romulan arrogance or whatever - they send the best they had. they didn't burden themself with ships nearly a century old 🖖
I like that I searched for this and someone has uploaded the exact thing I was looking for. Anyway
FOR CARDASSIAAAAA!!!
FOR CARDASSIAAAA
FOR CARDASIAAAAAA!!!!!
FOR KARDASHIANS!
@@titusmccarthy "I want the Kardashians exterminated. All of them."
@@michaelgreenwood3413 which ones?
FOR C A R D A S S A I A A A
*YOU really want to fight & die for Cardassians &, or Cardassia? (◔_◔)*
2:31 - "Well, Colonel Kira - what a pleasant surprise." Weyoun says, as he moves from partially shielding the Founder with his body to giving Kira a clear line of fire if she chose to take it.
His first reaction was to shield the founder though. Weyoun analysed the situation and knew that the Founder was in no danger from their captors, he did fail to realise that Garak's opinion of Damar had changed however.
The Cardassian at 0:50 seemed to hesitate, but Garak shouting “For Cardassia!” pushed his doubts aside. It wouldn’t surprise me if Garak did that because he knew the moment required it. Damar dying and Kira giving an order would naturally make the others hesitant. Garak was smart enough to recognize the situation.
100%
For such an ancient and mature race, the shapechangers sure are a spiteful and petty people.
Heh heh watch Babylon 5 u aint seen petty 😂
"Please, let me Speak to the FOUNDER! I got FIVE kids to feed!"
It was amazing to see Kira , Garak , and Damar fighting together!!!
Just to think back, the Founder:
Brought in Been -> Pissed off Damar -> Cardassian revolt
Exert revenge on Cardassian -> Cardassian troops & ships turned against them -> new ally for federation
Execute Cardassian puppet -> open door for the rebels -> Female changeling captured & Weyoun dead
The Dominion only good at swarming JemHadar & Vorta clones & ships. Their shortcomings were exposed towards the ending of war.
That was the founder's achalies heel-that the a race would rather die on it's feet than live on it's knees when they have centuries of being their own masters.
@@robertchapman625 after so long being utterly dominant in the gamma quadrant, it was incomprehensible to the dominion to find a subject who would not fold. An enemy who would not give in even in the face of extermination.
A species that wishes to kill or subjugate all sentient life is incompatible with a species who wishes to live together with other species. Something had to give.
1:18 "You stay here in case they fail"
Way to go to have confidence in your troops, Weyoun.
You two stay here! Incase they fail.
A Bajorian fighting a desperate cause alongside Cardassian soldiers, ironic
It's like a hologram telling a cyborg how to feel or show your feelings...
Imagine telling season 1 Kira that someday she will fight to save Cardassia.
I found it quite cathartic to watch a Bajoran and Cardassians fighting together against a common enemy for a noble cause.
His last words "keep..." keep fighting guys.
I remember watching these episodes with a good friend. Every week we would be like “Yes!!!! Go Damar!!! Freakin Damar!!! “.
I miss this show. If this franchise can reboot anything, bring me back to Deep Space 9.
0:50 The Heavens themselves blazed forth that day.
DS9 had a big budget, relatively speaking, able to accommodate a lot of great new sets, Emmy-winning costumes, makeup, and VFX, and a huge recurring guest cast. But the finale definitely stretched their resources - lots of stock footage in climactic moments, and tiny claustrophobic sets like this one and the caves where Sisko and Dukat face off. But the ambition of the storytelling outshines it all.
I always found it funny when they used the backdrop of cardassia and the same exact soldiers stand on the balcony looking at the screen.
The founders really didn't understand Klingons. No victory no matter how pyrrhic feels like a defeat to them, just means more warriors earnt their passage to Sto-Vo-Kor.
I think it was more directed at the Federation who was the real threat at that point. It isn't explained much in the show but the Federation had fully entered a war footing at that point and it was starting to really expand its military capabilities. The Romulans joining was the turning point but the Federation was ramping up as well with new start classes, recruits, etc.
4:00 Garak about to boil over.
Odo's return to the Great Link must have rocked it to its foundation. He literally saved his species from extinction (except for whomever among the 100 infants survived), but the perspective he brought with him challenged everything. The Founder had talked about their being "disagreement" in the Link for the first time, after Odo had killed another Changeling. It must have been worse than that, though. Odo was his peoples' savior, and the destroyer of their culture. Even those who accepted his ideas would have to confront the fact that their reaction to being hunted and oppressed was in fact to be even worse. They were abuse victims and ultimately hypocrites of high order.
But they would have seen the other side, too. Odo's memories of friendship and even love amongst the solids. It was why Odo couldn't just cure his people and leave again. He knew that helping them rediscover their past as a society of open explorers would likely consume the balance of his lifetime - why might well have been thousands of years, since the Founder had said that they hadn't expected any of the "infants" to return for a period on the order of 500 years.
Imagine if even Kira had begun shouting, "For Cardassia!"
Even now, I have to stop myself from screaming it in the shower.
I know those acoustics would echo it around the bathroom in the most beautiful fading loop..... but my neighbours would think me a freak, wouldn't you think.
And don't go thinking that hyping Bajor would leave me in any better standing, as it won't.... and I won't!!!!
The irony being: Cardassia labeled the Bajorans as terrorists for fighting for their freedom. Now the Cardassians are the terrorists for fighting for theirs.
Poetic justice.
"Off the hook, after all." - Lee Nalis, dying words.
Female Founder: 'That was Weyoun's last clone..."
Me Watching at Home: "... couldn't you just clone him again later? I know you're cloning facilities are down right now, but you've got a whole corpse worth of genetic material right there. Just take some samples."
Maybe cloned Vorta degrade too fast for that? 🤷♂️
I mean, even the Kaminoans started having problems with their new Clones because the original genetic material from Jango Fett was eroding.
In fact I think the only Dominion cloning facilities that were still operating were back in the gamma quadrant! And with the prophets protecting the wormhole no way to access them.
@@MrDibaraI think there is more to this. It's not just cloning his genetic material, the vorta being clones with intact memories makes them indispensable for their accumulated skills and information.
I assume that if you don't clone them fast enough, genetic material or otherwise, they'll lack the same talent because brain neurons degrade rapidly.
I love how everyone seamlessly went from calling Kira “Colonel” to “Commander” just bc of her sudden field commission.
FOR CARDASSIA!!!!!!
This might be the most badass 5 minutes of the whole series.
Really neat seeing the cardassians depicted here after the buildup from tng. You notice so much more when you rewatch season 6-7 of tng.
I think my favorite part of DS9 were the villains. I hate it when bad guys are bad guys because it's their job to be the bad guys.
The villains in DS 9 were morally complex, sometimes twisted, but capable of love and good deeds. Some had redeeming qualities. They were hateable, tragic, noble, brave, cowardly, treacherous,and loyal by turn or all at the same time. I think Garrick was ultimately my favorite character.
Too bad Damar didn't get to kill Weyoun.
Damar destroyed the cloning facility so he kinda did?
Damar killed Weyoun probably once or twice already.
The "transporter acident" earlier in the series that done for Weyoun 5 was right after that clone had wound up Damar...
Idk why but Garek belting for cardassia has me rolling
*YOU really want to fight & die for Cardassians &, or Cardassia? (◔_◔)*
While playing sto, i like to shout this to myself every time i run into battle, "FOR CARDASSIA"
0:50 FOR CARDASSIAAAAA!!!
FOR CARDASSIAAA!!!!
FOR CARDASSIAAAA!!!!!!
*FOR CARDASSIAAAAAA!!!!!!*
FOR CARDASIAAA
FOOR CAARDAASSIAAAAAAAA!!!
They should have had more battles for the final seaosn and the war. Garak was the best character.
Weyoun just never knew when not to mouth off to the wrong person.
I spent the entire show hating the cardassians for what they did and what they had stood for but i wouldnt have shame to admit i let out a "FOR CARDASSIAAAAAA!" when i watched this scene.
The female changeling is my favourite villain in star trek. She is impressively cold, holding herself monumentally aloof from the lesser beings. Then there is that wonderful, placidly delivered, malice.
She is just great, the founders are great. Truly despicable creatures, wonderful.
Kira in a Star fleet uniform just seems right
Even the Founder calls her Commander. It just fits!
Legate Broca getting bayoneted by the Jem'Hadar was a shame. How will his 5 kids feed themselves now?? *Note The actor who played Broca was the same actor who played Benny the cab driver in Total Recall. " Heyyyyy man, I got FIVE kids to feed!"*
EDIT: The next scene at 0:18 always makes me laugh. The two Jem'Hadar just come round the corner and start blasting like fucking lunatics. No target checking or anything, just free firing at anything that moves!! They either don't care about friendly fire, or their enhanced brains allow them to react and ascertain who is the enemy in a split second.
The Jem'Hadar be all like "SCRREWWWWWW YOU UUUUU"
To the Jem'Hadar, the only non target is a Founder.
@@VHS_Vampire1988 And that includes Vorta!
He wasn't even married.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 SPECIALLY Vorta! 🤣
FOR CARDASSIA!!!!!!! 😈😈😈😈😈😈😈
"Should I scrooch 'em, Gidney?" "Scrooch 'em, Cloyd."
"For the Emprah' of Snakemankind !!!"
For Cardassia!!!!
0:51 The most honestly patriotic that Garak has ever been! 👌
00:51
That was the moment the old Cardassia died and a new one was born.
One worth fighting for,
Loved the story….
But when I remember what phasers are capable of….😢
Damar really went in their Leroy Jenkins style, no chicken though.
Thank goodness for phaser proof barrels.
Just about every single cardasian the audience is introduced to in DS-9, with the exception of Garak..... Dies.
For Cardassia! and Ron Moore!
"Keep fighting."
0:51 aaaaaaaaaaa
Not bad, for a tailor.
When Damar fell, his two former enemies rallied the men to continue the charge.
I doubt Damar could've remained as a leader after the war. War-time leaders/heros rarely make peace-time leaders in a sense that their mindset is typically built for quick thinking, strategy, plotting and duty.
Besides, his chequered past may have precluded his rise to leader and the Cardassian Government was a Council.
From a political viewpoint I'd very much like to have seen what became of the Cardassians, its people, its government and its relationship with Bajor in the years after the Dominion War.
Did they become the unwanted underdogs of the AQ?
Did it bring unity between Bajor and Cardassia or were the wounds just too deep?
I know we get a very limited glimpse in DIS that suggests they prospered, but it seems like the Cardassians are pretty much never to be seen again on any series post-DS9
It would take at least a generation or two to recover. It was mentioned the brightest minds were all killed. All those scholars, scientists, artists, were likely put to death since the Jem'Hadar and Vorta could take the place where it was needed. The uprising lead to where they couldn't trust anyone who had status or a brain. With that said, since there was no final battle to the death, there would be a huge surplus of Cardassian soldiers and equipment so not sure how that would fit into the new order of civilian leadership. My only thought is perhaps the world would be occupied by a force of Federation, Klingon, and Romulan ruling members for some time. After Shinzon and the Romulan supernova, it's likely the Romulan's would lose interest to take care of internal matters. That would leave just the Klingons and the Federation to carry on. I'd say by the Picard series there should be some level of a rebuilt civilian empire.
Man seeing that old D7 in there...like ok this is it. Its been a very VERY long drawn out war and all of the allies are basically throwing whatever they have left into the frey. Only thing that would have made it AMAZING would be a Constitution Refit in there..or maybe a Galaxy Class saucer separated.
0:00 - 0:08 "You making terrible mistake. I'm not a traitor. Please, let to speak to the Founder. No, wait, I've got five kids to feed"
@3:05 one of the best moments in Star Trek history
I was kind of bummed when Damar died. He had a very interesting arc for someone who started off as minor background character.
Weyounm 6 provou que, apesar de geneticamente leal aos Fundadores, os Vorta eram cruéis por vontade própria.
FORCARDASSIA!!!
Your victory will taste as bitter as defeat.
Still getting goosebumps when they shout „For Cardassia!“
Odo could just beam down, mimic the founder and order them to stand down!
3:03. he's gonna regret saying THAT.