GR86 RTV Q&A session with a former Subaru Master Tech
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- 2022 GR86 RTV Engine Failures Q&A session with a former Subaru Master Tech pt3
#gr86 #fa24 #brz
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Man, props to you for getting inundated with all of these questions. Seems super tiring, but you're doing a great job- I'm just looking into buying one of these and learning more every day- and your channel is teaching me a lot.
Thank you so much!
Hey man thank you for the kind words and gldad you are finding the content useful!
Glad to stumble upon your channel... Love the content... Much Love and Respect
Thank you Zeek for all of your helpful vids!! 🤟🏼 You are helping more than you know by sharing your experience and advice with the 86/BRZ community. Hope all is well mang
Thanks for the kind words and the watch. Glad you found this useful!
Really appreciate you doing these Q&As and for reaching out to the manufacturer for responses. Keep up the amazing work
Much appreciated Mr. Science guy. And thank YOU for the kind words and support!
great video and response to customer inquiries. thanks for making unbiased honest content like this :0)
Thanks for the kind words and the watch!
First time I've seen your channel and very informative content. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for the kind words and support!
Great video, good to see the reasoning for the number of GR86 failures, I don’t track my car so will be happy to just change the oil more frequently 👍🏻
Thank you for taking the time to do this. It's a huge help to the community.
Glad to be of service! Community first!
Thanks for the informative video!
Glad you found this useful!
Great video! Thank you!
Thanks for the support and your question!
Thank you for your video!
Thank YOU! For the watch and support!
Thank you soo much for your response!
You got it! Glad you fund this useful
Interesting video mate, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it
The FB20 engine have this problem too. The Indiana plant only assembles I believe, the engine and trans still ship from Japan.
Thanks for providing us with great information!
Would you consider making a how-to video for dropping the oil pan to check the pickup tube? Things I'd like to know are which rtv to use and how to apply it, fastener torque values, info on which pick tools are best for reaching the screen, etc.
I'll do my best. But for customer work, we are always on a tight timeline (I have to work on cars, run the team, run shop operations, ect), so it will have to be if a customer can leave his car for a few days.
Subaru opened my BRZ less than 5k miles because I had actual RTV on my dip stick. they did not charge me. They were NOT going to open the oil pan if I had no way to prove I had an issue. I always take pictures and record everything!! Recommend everyone to do this.
Subaru has historically been a lot more lenient on warranty concerns than Toyota has in regards to the twins.
Why can't I just make my own oil pan gasket? Some sheet rubber,a pair of scissors, done and done.
I feel like there’s an engineering reason they didn’t just do that themselves but idk man it’s stupid
That would only get rid of one location where rtv was used. They used it all over the engine including the timing chain cover.
Im dropping the tundra pan. Assembly shavings inside the oil filter. Also there's the cam girdle silicone that leaks. Cam tower leak tundra.
In regards to the guy from Dubai, It's funny (or sad), when I ordered my 86, the Toyota rep told me the same exact thing but flipped - 86 doesn't have this issue, it's just the Subarus!
I've heard this "saying" from American car salesman: "The more you know about cars, the worse car salesman you will be"
Can’t wait to see the screen! Out of the tube that is!
I plan to cut the pick up tube in half for examination!
As a former Ambassador, I can say with certainty that Subaru has gone downhill as a company and has shown signs of that decline for the better part of 10 years. Despite my and many other Ambassadors and consumers communicating with them, they simply stopped listening at some point...and your response, or lack of one, is an example of this in action. For that reason, I sent a long email to them when I stepped down from the Ambassador program. I tried to professionally articulate to them where I felt they were missing their mark and the best things I felt they could do to recover that. The response I got back only really said goodbye and then begged for the ambassador gear back, which i found laughable as they didnt even offer to pay shipping for it all. Again, another example of their failures...you want it back, offer to pay for it and maybe someone will spend the time it takes to dig it all out and pack it all up.
Seriously, I LOVE Subaru. I really want them to be the great company they once were. They are still a good company, but they have been slipping and the trajectory ain't looking good, especially while having significant shares being purchased by their competitors. They are not without fault for their downfall...it is a direct result of their actions and inactions....but it isnt too late for them to earn back the greatness instead of living off of its residual heat...and lets face it, that is exactly what they have been doing.
I am about 90 days out from buying a new car, I have been aiming at a wrx again and i may well get one...but they are losing business when people hear about this issue...my advice to any owners of the FA24 in any model...bite the bullet, take your car to a place where you can absolutely pound on it for a good long while or a track, and pound the bitch into failure and start driving the cost of mistakes home to Subaru until they address the issue like they should have over a year ago.
One good aftermarket solution is to make an oil pan that drains exactly at the bottom of the pickup tube. That way -it would be easy to inspect any RTV stuck in the pickup tube. This can be modified OEM pans or a totally different pan. Replacing the pickup tube is not necessary. It already has a better design having 5 sides of screens built-in. I personally inspected my pickup tube @ 811 miles. I only found 2 small pieces (not more than 5 mm long.
Drain plug directly under the pick up tube is not a bad idea!
The NA version of the FA24 all come from japan. The GR86\BRZ roll off the same assembly line. The turbo version in the wrx, ascent, legacy, outback for the american market are built in Indiana.
Thank you for the clarification!
The fact is GR86/BRZ are back-order up to two years (welp where i live it is)... unless those orders gone unexpected early don`t expect Toyobaru to change any thing !!
my man!!!!
Personally I was able to get subaru Corp to clean out my rtv and reseal the oil pan under warranty. I just need my mechanic to drop the pan and point out that the pick up was clogged 30% with all 5 sides included.
Luckily since I go to my mechanic regularly for track prep, he didn't charge me a dim.
So this can solve the myth if subaru would void your warranty, if you drop the pan.
On top of that, my fa24 is running with an aftermarket oil cooler. And they didn't say anything about that when they clean up my pickup.
So your oil pan got pulled and resealed twice then? I'm hoping once a recall comes out, all my oil pan drop customers can get reimbursed by Subaru/Toyota so we are not doing double the work.
I mention this as I've fixed other dealership mistakes on customer cars that they have been able to get my ROs reimbursed by the dealership
@@CMAutohaus my mechanic just put the pan back on without seal and oil in it. Got subaru to tow the car to a dealership
Ezekiel, can you video your next oil pan drop of a 22+ WRX for us WRX owners? Really hoping you get one in the shop soon so we can see how they are fairing compared to the GR86 / BRZ.
I need a local volunteer first.
@@CMAutohaus I bet if you post a video on your YT channel asking for a volunteer for a 22 WRX oil pan drop, maybe give them a free oil change, someone may come forward. I'm telling you right now, if you find someone willing, I will share will all social media and it will help your channel get a LOT of views.
The RTV issue really hurts. I spend months researching and test driving before I decided on the 86. I love the car, I forget about RTV when I am driving it. It makes me so worried that the overall engine life will be shorter than it could be. (dies after the warranty).
You should email Toyota corperate this exact statement. Venting online will online do so much for us. I'd argue it would be much more effective if we all filed statements and cases with Toyota/Subaru corperate.
My local Subaru repair department said they never heard of the RTV issue and that it would cost around $1000 for them to drop the Oil Pan. They also said that it could void my warranty if they did the work.
Could* void the warrenty. Subaru of America will warrenty, buy back, and good will ANYTHING if you fight hard enough. Saw it for myself MANY times as a dealer tech
I got a iag oil pan windage tray and oil pickup installed on my Sti for 500 bucks.
They are just blatantly lying. They legally can't void a warranty for removing and reinstalling a stock oil pan unless they have direct evidence that you did something wrong that caused a failure that wouldn't happen otherwise.
@@Bones12x2 100% Im sure the "right to repair" law also has something to do with this
@@CMAutohaus yes. Not only that but they also legally can't void an entire vehicle warranty for a singular unrelated part/detail. For example, if you modify your brakes. They can't ise that as an excuse to void an engine failure as they are totally unrelated components.
Thanks for your review and information.
But, Why be stressed?
1 there is a oil filter Just to filter the oil from RTV silicone pieces.
2 if the pickup will start to close and the oil pressure will go down, there is oil pressure light will ON just for that.
So.......
I really do not suggest that anyone run and disassemble the oil pan
Please aftermarket produce a oil pan gasket.
I think the reason we dont see many BRZs or WRXs is because not that many engines are failing from the RTV. From what I have seen its only been that one guy who had his dealership try to void his warrenty without inspecting the car. The guy said he just checked the oil pan and saw RTV and called it a day, but we have seen many of these engines with lots of RTV and still running fine. I wish Toyota and Subaru would address this situation because any blockage is suboptimal but I dont think they will do anything until there are multiple engine failures which sucks. Maybe there are lots of failures that I havent seen idk.
Subaru didn’t sell as many units as Toyota. Same engines in both as noted in the video. I think it was 5 Toyotas to one Subaru were made. He had a spreadsheet posted.
My plan. Drive it. If the engine fails due trv during warranty, great, new engine. If not, I’ll just extend the warranty. Hope it goes in two years. Be nice to have a new engine with another warranty. Love this car! 4130k. 4 months old.
How are you going to extend the warrenty?
@@CMAutohaus not sure if you get this where you are but Toyota offers this. ( Note: for my gt86 it was 5 years /100k then extension with every service) Service cost for the gr86 is about £36 / $46 per month...
From Toyota UK
Up to 10 years / 100,000 mile Toyota warranty*
Every new Toyota comes with a 3 year manufacturer warranty followed by a 12 months / 10,000 miles additional warranty, with every qualifying service*. Up to 10 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, letting you relax in the knowledge that you and your vehicle are in safe hands.
Great channel, Subaru should be paying you for this!!
@@1carusjohn32 There is defnity a different in service and warrenty language between the USA and the rest of the world - and not for the better.
I am wondering if the excess rtv could also somehow get caught in the timing chain as it falls out of the timing cover or possibly create blockages elsewhere? Some of those rtv pieces look rather large.
Agreed. RTV could definitely get trapped in other parts of the engine
To your note about Subaru not having used silicon or timing chain engines as much as euro cars, Toyota has been using timing chains since the late 90's. They don't seem to have a problem with their cars leaking.
Exactly why these cars should have came with a Toyota engine from the start.
100% 2022 BRZ has the RTV issue. I know some owners who canyon run on the weekends and the ones that have checked under 7000 miles and the usual direct flow side of the pickup is generally 50-70% blocked.
Bingo. Exactly our findings as well
Gr86 should have the 3cyl turbo from Toyota
Why would only chain driven cam shafts use rtv ?
Given that this is a relatively old issue, are the newer cars now being supplied without the issue. I mean it is a lot of risk to Toyota and Subaru if the motors blow up under warranty. Two years to sort out an over application of gunk(RTV) sounds a little excessive. ( In-House QA issue surely)
2023's still have the issue. czcams.com/video/KXPAwfKWRo0/video.html
Is it possible to inspect the oil strainer via snaking a flexible borescope through the drain hole in the pan?
No. The pickup is too close to the bottom of the oil pan
Would an oil pressure gauge help monitor if RTV begins to build up in the pick up? Thanks!
Excellent question! The answer is NO. In the video below this customer had an aftermarket oil pressure gauge and logged the data. No pressure issues despite an 80% clogged top oil pick up screen. The key is oil pressure and oil volume are independent - you can have low volume, but good pressure.
czcams.com/video/5wcbBC2ED_U/video.html
There is alot of people with 40k+ miles on theirs. I think it’s definitely a overblown problem, but a problem nevertheless.
why can't we use the gasket from WRX oil pan on the FA24 DTI engine?
No gasket. Should also be sealed with RTV
What brand or gasket would you recommend for the oil pan gasket..I would like to stay away from the silicone
No aftermarket makes an oil pan gasket yet
I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem is people are driving these cars harder than they are capable of handling without supporting mods. Specifically cooling mods. THERE IS NO RTV ISSUE. People are finding RTV inside of blown engines and perfectly healthy engines. I am convinced that it is normal and why the strainer is designed the way it is. If I guy gets shot and killed but an autopsy shows their arteries were clogged that does not make the cause of death a heart attack. These people are beating the shit out of their cars and blowing them up. By pure coincidence there is oil in the pickup tube. This has gone way too far.
I agree there needs to be more data on the RTV issue regarding engine failures. You also bring up a good point: the same FA24 that powers the family car Ascent, probably needs supporting mods to handle track use in a modified sports car.
The bar is set really low for Subaru engines. Just a simple basic K20 engine found in 10th and 11th Civic can take countless track days and still be an efficient daily for the life of the car with only extra fluid changes to counter the hard use... Hopefully aftermarket will come up with an easy way to swap the natural aspired K20C2 Honda engine into the blown GR86. It'll be a bit slower (since less HP), but massively more durability and efficient...After grueling day at the track, my Civic is cruising back home (1.5hr drive from TMP back to Toronto) while doing 45mpg on the QEW... I wonder which is quicker with the same engine...my 10th Civic Sedan (curb weight 2700lb) or a GR86 packing the lighter K20 engine. I suspect the front drive 10th Gen chassis would still return same lap time then the awesome RWD chassis in the GR86.
@@psewgobind Or you can just slap an oil cooler and oil pan baffle in there. Anyone who swaps a honda engine into anything other than another honda is drunk. There are countless much better options that economy car engines. The boxer 4 is capable of tons of power. Just needs a few cheap and easy supporting mods. Not to mention it creates the best exhaust note of any 4 cylinder engine on the planet.
@@boost331 Power vs efficiency. Given gas is going to get tax'd to death, efficiency is the only solution, unless it's for a parking lot meet. I want be able afford to drive my ICE vehicle to the track when EV becomes the only solution.
@@psewgobind Whatever works for you. I dont buy sports cars for efficiency. By the time you spend 8k doing a full engine swap with ECU and wiring with all the needed parts and adapters what did you really save? NADA..!! Drive a sports car like a sports car. Buy a prius is you need to bust open the piggy bank for gas. Im not worried about that 1 bit.
If it was a major high % of cars have this issue they would rather do a recall and drop the pans instead of replacing engines is the way I look at it from a business standpoint....
I believe for recalls, corporate bean counters literally play a numbers game ie: this many engines have this percent chance of blowing up, that cost vs the cost of a recall. In all reality, it may be less expensive to not do the recall and take the risk of % of engines failing.
Terrible for the consumer, but numbers games are literally how these things work
@@CMAutohaus Agreed I can see both sides of this...still not deterring me from buying one
Why not finding a way to point Mr. Moritzo attention on this issue? Even through socials…
Our source at Toyota of Japan says Toyota knows about the issue, but their official stance is that it is a "non issue"
@@CMAutohaus the real issue seems to be the pressure drop on right hand corners
part 4
No real updates for a part 4 yet. We are still doing RTV inspections and oil strainer cleanings at the shop.
Still waiting on an official response or TSB/recall for this issue as Im sure many owners are.
this sucks from Toyota that this is not a recall!
I can't believe a recall or a class action suit hasn't been issued or filed yet. Subaru has a long history of terrible quality control in their engines and I would imagine they will not address the problem until forced too.
There was a class action lawsuit for oil consumption in the FA20. I dont think anything came of it.
Will we experience this RTV issue if we daily this car? I imagine most of this issue is from tracking it.
You will still have excess RTV blocking at least some of the oil pick up - the longer term effects are still unknown. Although removing the oil pan to clean the strainer should be a one time job and will at least give you piece of mind.
ND2 Miata it is for me then.
Apparently the new miatas have their own qwirks and issues as well. Our neighbor shop is a rotary and Miata specialist and they are not the biggest fans of the chassis.
Like I said every sports car is going to have its own quirks
Any downsides to them using a plastic oil pickup over a metal one?
Any composite plastic will deteriorate over time. Cars are built to be cost savings and disposable these days, not built to last.
@@CMAutohaus Good to know, thanks for the reply.
if you're dropping $35K on an 86 why not have the dealer drop the oil pan before you take it home and just be done with it?!
Will I buy another Subaru after listening to you?? 🤔🤔🤔. You sure have me thinking?
GR86 is the only Subaru I would buy. Everything else is a quirky headache when people just need a commuter car
Damn. Can't trust anyone.......
Its really tough to find an entity with your best interests vs profits at heart. Its a cold world out there
🤔This car sounds like a bad idea💡
Im surprised to hear Toyota makes an unreliable car.
The car is perfect, its the SUBARU engine this car comes with that is the problem