How this track bends to steer
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
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What about if we could make a bendy tank track that bends to steer? It's a bit like a conveyor belt in a sushi restaurant which bends around corners. These conveyors are commercially available, but normally have fixed curves, so how can we make the tank track bend either way to steer?
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You could have a sprung tensioner on only the top of the flat sections that tensions by pressing the track upwards to compensate for the removal of the bottom tensioner for a flat driving surface.
Unless you have something bringing the track back down, wouldn't that encourage the belt to come off? I'm talking specifically about when bending the track.
I was thinking just a spring on some rods to tension the entire thing, like a typical tread on a tractor.
@@benjytom7371 yes: the existing outside rollers
Spring load the idler wheel inline with movement. You'd probably need some thicker rods to constrain the movement direction. the lateral constraing at the hinge should be ok to take the moment and not force the track sideways??
either this idea or like regular tracks normally do you have the idler adjustable forward and back.
I think your "steel" axles were actually copper
To me they looked like copper coated welding filler rod
I do a lot of miniature building looks more like brass rod. It’s cheap and very common.
That confused me I was like that is clearly copper
@@Codebreakerblue yep that's exactly what that is. Cheap mild steel filler wire
At the very least they're copper coated.
My thoughts would be to introduce a resilient spacer into the slot that the pin rides in - to provide resistance that pulls the pins back to their rest point. This would allow you to effectively tension the track without just using up all the pin travel in the process.
If you can get this to work, it would be perfect for making a tracked bicycle!
I am not the only one who likes the idea of a trackcycle I see :D
Your creativity and speed in making these amazing robot concepts is quite inspiring.
Use elastics between the links to tension the belt so that way it will be tight on both the inside and outside of the turn. Love your work its amazing. =)
Looks like a dunsparce animatronic
You also need it to articulate up and down at a few points. So regardless of obstacle it still maintains maximum ground contact.
That was exactly what I thought was missing, up down articulation in addition to the side to side one.
That sprocket motor mounting design is brilliant!
The tensioning mechanism definitely needs to be *inside* the track. My immediate thought is a spring arrangement between the open end of the center pivot and the idler's frame; alternatively, make the idler itself able to ride in and out along its frame. Either way, cool start, neat idea, looking forward to version 2.
Almost reminds me of the Snail Tank from Star Wars, always wondered how you could make a single tracked vehicle turn
Doesn't it have small tracks mounted out on side strut things?
Its the threadable (dumb name) from star wars 8 or 9 not sure. The thing were lando comes out of on that festival planet thingy.
@@TheMagman I think they're talking about the Droid tanks from the prequels.
@@voltronimusprime3833 indeed they are, i ment to say it looks more like the threadable from star wars 7 or 8
@@TheMagman Are you sure that's the name of whatever vehicle you're thinking about? I can't seem to find it.
Edit: Nevermind, I found some clips that had it, though I still can't find a single piece of information about the actual vehicle.
Youre imagination and outside the box thought patterns would be an amazing piece of art James!
Great prototype! Can't wait to see the improved version with everything you've learned!
this is my favorite thing you've made, great work
I love all these whacky drivetrain ideas you're trying out, your work is amazing!
Super cool project. Previously worked as an engineer on processes using assembly lines so this brings back memories
What you need is to put the idler on an adjustable spring-loaded mount, so when there's slack in the tracks the idler will push outwards to pull it taught, and vice-versa.
Amazing! Great ingenuity and craftmanship!
I wonder if adding a spring or something to make the body pieces a little bit farther apart would be enough to tension the track.
You could add a "roof" to the side walls the tracks currently have, that would keep the track fixed to the bearings. I wonder if adding a second bend axis sort of like an inchworm where it can bend the mid section up/down as well as left/right might help with obstacle climbing.
Just found this channel. Quite impressed with the concept. For a version 1 it’s really good. I’ve done a few RC tank projects before and would recommend using a deeper sprocket tooth and guides that fill the gap when bent more. As far as tensioners go, I would take your articulation section and make it so that they use spring tension to not only hold the gear teeth together but keep the track tighter.
Give it two weeks and this will be an awesome project! Great start so far. I think solving that tensioning problem will be the biggest part. I think you gotta stray away from tensioning the bottom side of the track and instead find some sort of spring based retention for the top of the tank, either in the middle or the end of the tank
Seems like for each of these projects you develop 10+ new 3D printed designs. Truly incredible! What's your design process like? And how do you design complex interlocking pieces so quickly? Would love a video on this!
Really great engineering... I can't wait to see the double layer track idea!
Cool idea with the bend. The solution to most of the problems you encountered (tensioning, treads tending to slide around etc.) is quite easily visible by having a look at a closeup of actual tank treads. BTW: In most of the places were you used a static metal bearing, a wheel with a suspension would help a lot. Looked a bit like a "You have to put 50 bearings in your build" situation. ;) But whatever you like as long as you have fun.
Wonderful design, James.
Neat concept James! I'm excited to see what you do with version 2. I bet more sections would provide better support for the tracks. I'm imagining a bendy scissor lift type mechanism of linkages to bend it, it would be wacky!
The internal motor was a mental leap I wouldn't have made without seeing it close up, thank you.
This is very cool, so glad to have stumbled upon this channel!
Very helpful, thanks for sharing 👍👍
as usual gave me furiously to think. keep them coming.
I'm a robotics enginnering student and you motivate me so much! Thanks for being so creative and for disseminating your knowledge so greatly in this channel
Can you make a robot man ?
On commercial bendy belts I’ve worked with they don’t expand and contract. They just get shorter on the inside while the outside stays the same. This would avoid the bending stress on the pins and the flex in the belt. I think you could get away with spring take up on the top only, and devise a different method of keeping the bottom from falling off. Maybe a bendy L profile guide that hooks into the belt?
Superb..wait for the v2 ..☺️
Definitely look at how tank treads are retained. Love the monotread and really want to see v2
Love the concept and look forward to seeing this design keep improving until it's an all terrain tank!
James Bruton, 10 innovations per minute! 😂
Instead of printing out rubber pads stuff like that for your tank treads use spray-on rubber bed liner, the volatiles in the formula can sometimes melt plastic. But if you spray tan and really light passes that stuff evaporates before it damages the tread.
Awesome. Like to see version 2.
Looking thru the comments, I like the idea of making the idler an adjustable tensioner. Would only have to redo the mounting plates (add a slot, adjust the length, & a mechanism to move the axle). Great work!
Cool concept!
I'd modify the tracks so the piece that comes down can hook, letting you have your tensioning bearing be underneath the track. Would make the print a bit more complicated but could also simplify how it stays on.
I love all these videos. It makes me want to become an engineer.
I'd really like to see you carry on with this James, get it perfected, try it with dual tracks etc etc. My fav content of yours has been the BB8 work, I think because I got so much out of you having to figure things out, iterate and problem solve over several versions. I have to admit to being useless when it comes to electronics and code, yet I love the content from the inventiveness and creativity side of things. Great stuff, not messaged for a while, but want to say how much I've appreciated your work over the last 5 years or so.
The world is a little better place because you exist. Thank you!
Used to build conveyors,,, nice concept ya got here, incredibly simple,, and ive never seen it done before
This reminds me of the tracks used on the Cruiser Light tanks Tetrarch tank and the later Harry Hopkin tank, where they had two steering mechanisms, one was standard skid steering, and the other was bending the tracks, i think it would've worked similarly to the ones presented here although i can't really find online sources in regards to the Tank treads use on either of the aforementioned AFVs.
one suggestion i have to tension the tracks is having an adjustable or spring tensioned roller wheel underneath the tracks on the fixed bodies, so as to try and keep the track in place, either that or reducing the space in the track treads that houses the track pin on the vertical axis so it doesn't move as much up and down but still maintaining left and right.
The tetrarch turned the outer wheels, and the inner wheels tilted in a funny geometry to tighten the turn radius. It gave the tank the ability to turn without relying on skid steer.
But since he doesn't have a tank body to get in the way, I don't think he'll need to do any inner wheel articulation.
This is really cool. I had designed a motorcycle a while ago that was supposed to use a track like this, very neat to see it in action! Congrats! That would be a good version 2 =)
As I said using an only track in the middle is the only point in developing a bending track. But we're here for science not for automotive industry. :)
@@bonovoxel7527 Exploring over ANY terrain IS science my friend
The track systems I've seen that have built-in tensioning, like they do for tanks, the tensioning is done with sprung lift wheels, not by pulling the track down. The drive wheels are also not at the level of the support wheels that the track actually runs on, which keeps them (sort of) from getting fouled when the vehicle goes through mud.
this guy makes cool stuff, i like this guy
have you thought about a linear spring type track tensioner not too dissimilar to what most full size tracked vehicles use?
Thank you for your video!
I enjoyed watching this little experiment. It involved solving some other problems along the way, i.e. spinning motor housing and such.
Another idea became obvious after you squeezed the truck in the middle ...we do not really need one piece of truck...why do not we split one truck into two...you eliminate problem of keeping truck on the rollers and its tension.
Or yet, another idea is to install the two half-gears on extensible shaft with springs that would keep the truck's tension even when it bends.
not sure if its mentioned, but you could use 2 linear actuators instead in the middle to steer the tank. This would solve 2 of your issues, you can get a nice tight turning radius and you can adjust the tension on your track by having the actuators extend or contract to pick up the slack.
This scheme, called track warping, is a very old idea. It was used for steering on the well-known WWII Universal Carrier (aka "Bren Gun Carrier") for light turns, and mechanically combined with track braking for tighter turns. The carrier's centre bogie could slide a small amount laterally, causing the track to warp along the ground. No special loose track was needed, the grouser pin tolerance was enough.
The track warping system was improved upon with the Australian WWII LP3A MG Carrier and also on the 1-ton Tracked Truck GS where the front idler wheel was able to pivot a few degrees left to right to warp the track before it touched the ground, reducing the force necessary to steer.
In addition to replacing the outer bars with slotted bearings,
I suggest a spring or rubber band between the track segments for a little bit of adaptive tensioning of the track to adapt to the bend.
Racking my mind for a new tensioning system without a total redesign is a fun one! I think I’d settle on under the track rollers to support the middle section, then on the non driven side horizontal tighten the track by slicing the connector between the roller and middle gear attachment and adding 4 chonky springs pushing outwards horizontally between two plates. You’d have to do at least 4 as to not cause issues front the added flexion unless you add guide rails local to those plates ofc but that seems over complicated.
A normal sprang tank track tensioner, simple one like they use on diggers or old tanks. A slightly triangular shape to the top to allow for it. This project is something id really love to see the problems worked out of
Feels like some sort of spring loaded idler on the top for tension would be great.
Also maybe another bend point in the middle so it can curve more?
I would put the orange joint parts on springs to tension the track. So you have basically two shock absorbers on each side.
One thing you can potentially do for track tension is make the side with the roll wheel adjustable so that you can extend it a bit to tighten up the track.
And perhaps spring loaded to allow some flex?
For the tension I'd put suspension/spring into the straight guides on both ends so you can add the tension be pushing the track outwards not inwards. This would mean the top and bottom of the straight guides are not parallel but that is not an issue. Put the pivot points at the centers of the wheels. This way the track stays in the guide as the guide will move outwards with the track.
You would need to add suspension/spring to the center of the turn guides as well, essentially every guide would have suspension/springs to maintain tension with the track.
This should allow the track to conform to terrain better.
Having suspension/tensioners inside the tracks is part of why tank treads are good at uneven terrain, they adapt; I haven't seen this on any of the tracks I've seen you've built on this channel(I've only seen a few of them)
I think this one have a lot of potential and should be explored a lot more.
Thanks James, another great video and a cool concept to experiment with. Question about the filament colours: I noticed that the yellows and oranges don't match, was that because of different filament batches, or are they slightly different colours or even textures (i.e. matt vs not)?
this was used in some real tanks btw
they did it by holding the two ends stationary and pushing or pulling the roadwheels closer or further from the chassis
2 possible solutions, embedded magnet in track with more bearing inboard. Or redesign track with bearings at edge parallel to ground, to constrain track in channel of body and ad channels to all gray plastic parts needing them. Cool video. Tensioner pushing gear pivot from motor might also help. But if you redesign the steering, use that to tension the track.
You could tension the top from underneath so you could have a smooth surface on the bottom however it might affect the bend feature in a bad way
You could do two or three joints to allow more turning, you should also add a screw tension on one side. Allowing you to to extend one side of the track to be longer to create tension, this could work better than external bearings
I don't know how the tension would change when it steers, however turning one of the red cetral pivot arms into an arm that can be adjusted in length once the track is in place would certainly eat up the droop of the track and may potentially solve that problem you are currently facing.
I love what you have so far and how robust it's built. I'm really impressed by it all. I thought about how this idea could be turned into a vehicle with a cab over one of the wheels attached onto each side of the grey wheel mount under it. That may work well for you since you could make one that looks like a human operated cab, maybe with headlights, that hides the battery pack and remote receiver/controller within it.
'Is there a chance the track might bend?'
"It's designed right in by James our friend!"
Mono-track, mono-track, mono-traaack 🎵
You could add a tensioner (hydraulic, spring, etc.) in between the center bending gears and the body-ends they are attached to, therefor passively tensioning the slack by lengthening the robot slightly as it turns. 🤔 If you decide to add an up/down pivot so that the track can bend over obstacles, this solution wouldn't interfere with the new mechanism. Such a mechanism might be achieved with a pair of gears that are stretched along the verticle axis, but over a spherical shape, so that the mesh at different angles. The tensioner would ensure that they are pressed together, too, so that they don't just fall... maybe 🤪
I don't think that will stop the 'corner' dropping down
There's actually a vehicle that drives with a 60cm wide bendable track! It's called Flextrac MPV or Finncat depending on the model year. I got some videos of that vehicle on my channel if you want to see how it works. It's quite an interesting way to steer, really good at driving through snow and mud though!
This reminds me a bit of the steering of the WW2 Universal Carryer and the Tetrach Tank with the bending track, except it was done on does Two with the middle wheels.
to tension the track, you could replace one/both of the supports leading to the center gears with some nested rectangular prisms with a spring in the middle. This would keep the rotational and axial rigidity while spreading the length of the body, thus keeping the track in tension.
I feel like there might be something said to redesign the track pieces such that each segment has one or two bars that poke inward, and attach bearings to the end of each bar. The inner mechanism would then have slots to capture the bars and the bearings, ensuring that, at least at certain points, the track cannot get pulled away from the mechanism.
If the links between the sections where rounded, or more spherical I suppose, you could make them pivot also, which I think would help rather a lot. Furthermore, it should be possible to design independent drive section, to joins as many together as needed. Difficult to put into words exactly, but in my head it seems perfectly simple.
Awesome!
I've thought for a while about how a "bicycle" with a single bendy track could be made. (Mostly because this would be great for riding in deep snow!) No solution yet, but this is definitely going in the right direction...
A compliant rail with a T-shaped (or Y-shaped) slot and appendages on the track-sections that fit into it would certainly solve the problem of the track coming off, without the problems of your current outside metal bar. To make the rail flexible enough, it would need to have only a continuous backbone in the middle, while the sides that actually guide the appendages would be serrated.
You could also create a spacer in the middle which makes both ends longer apart so you tention the track... That may work!
Good evening Good evening! I'm Japanese and the sushi rail was originally for carrying bottles! Also, historically, it started with stalls rather than rails.
To avoid the track being able to be lengthen, a vertical pivot point between each set of two tracks could help ensure that the lenght stays constant.
very interesting concept.
@7:30 WOW dude, I dont think ive ever seen this type of track flex before.. Totaly amazing idea 😀 A track like this designed for heavy equipment like Excevators, would be Next level for sure 😀
It is not his idea and unfortunately they would be really bad for excavators
You need robust solution, these tracks were used on very light tanks to steer a bit while going forward
Excavators are mostly turning at slow speed or turning at same place, which is where these tracks fail
Seeing as tracked vehicles can easily turn and pivot with the tracks running at different speeds, tbh I'm not really seeing what this design would really offer and adds a bunch of complexity and potential reliability issues. The only place where I might see an advantage is at high speed, but then if you look at vehicles like the Ripsaw, they do pretty well as is.
The way you say bearings makes me laugh and idk why. But it made my day 😂❤
Maybe make one of bend gear powered. So there's no need for the linear actuator. Thanks for sharing. Love all you do. God Bless
Great concept.
How about a spacer between the articulated section and the ends to add tension?
You should take a look at a Bren Carrier as they had a mode of steering based on warping the track. It used the road wheels to gently curve the track while keeping the ends straight.
This is what a scam looks like. You would have to be brain dead to fall for this.
I think for tensioning, you could maybe make the lengths of the end bits variable? Perhaps even connect them to the center pivot with a spring-loaded piston mechanism, so that the system tensions automatically to keep the track tight. That way you could avoid those outside rollers.
That won't hold the 'corner' down.
At 08:50 you tossed the added pivot points out the window by putting the extra guide bearings dead centre. Should have put them on the ends of the bridge no?
Also; make your tracks have magnets in them so they stick to the bearings that way and don’t need the things wrapping around them.
Please revisit this project. I would love to see one that can truly tackle extreme terrain
With a single articulation, I'm not sure if bending tracks provide any advantage over two straight tracks articulated in the middle, especially given how difficult they are to tension. There were a bunch of tests with articulated tracked vehicles back in the day in Sweden. The Bandvagn 206 for instance would be the same concept but with two separate tracks. Still cool tho.
RC shocks under top section pushing up or some sort of idler that would put tension upwards enough to keep the bottom on track and top on track without anything poking out on the bottom.
It sounds like you're gonna have to go to C shaped track sections that wrap around both sides, so the vertical bearings restrain the track from pulling away from the body as well as giving a riding surface.
The linkage to keep the centerline distance of the tracks the same while either straight or curved is a puzzle.
On the upside, if you constrain from inside you can add grousers outside
Now do Factorio irl, with transport belts, inserter hands, assemblers and all that fun stuff to finally build a rocket
excavators have a ram filled with grease in between the idler and the drive gear to keep track tension.... also they have a forwards and a backwards.... driving them forwards means the sprocket is at the rear of the machine and pulls on the track in contact with the ground... this keeps the tension on the bottom and means it can be fairly loose on top... driving it in reverse can loosen the track and cause it to come off the idler.
A slot in the side of the track pieces with followers slotted into it could solve the alignment and drooping issues. it wouldnt require a full rebuild but it is an entirely new track, which would be thicker.
I remember there was an article in Wired magazine about a single track motorcycle concept, where the bike would turn by bending the entire track assembly.
Very cool project 👍
Make a mini tank you can ride 😊
The military watching this video:
Write that down! WRITE THAT DOWN!
Really interesting
From a real world perspective though, i think it would be really hard to armor up such a flexible design
And it would also be interesting to see how to crew and arm such a tank, with a huge volume being separated from the turret on top... unless you put the turret on the side? but that would have it's own issues.
It's not impossible to work around such issues, for example you could have some sort of scale armor, where plates could slide over one another, allowing it to bend.
But again, really interesting.
Spring-load the sprocket at the far end of the vehicle from the drive sprocket to maintain track tension overall. Support the upper and lower portion of track at the pivot with a pair of bogeys and maybe a pair of tapered rollers over the top that push the track back to center and prevent it from hopping off of the bogeys if the track bounces.
I can't think of a project to use this with, I love the idea and I want to build something with it. Idk some rideable off road thing sounds cool. I would have to scale the design and solve the tension issue, and well it would also cost alot. A RC car would be cool, but well I dont think those would handle high speeds very well. I am still trying to think of a fun project to use these with.
I'm looking at that and thinking that if the wind directors were made smaller so they'd fit in a piece of guttering section, printed with a 90' vee shaped notch cut out of them, and opposite that vee having a vertical wall to stop air just zipping through without going up the centre, it could be fitted to the corner of a home to take advantage of the slightly higher velocity/pressure air that's already being guided around the building.
Maybe even a "Flue" on top, with a venturi on top of that it to try to suck on the stack as well (Or at least just to lower the pressure there slightly and give the air an easier exit)?