Game of Thrones | Season 8 Revisited
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2020
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Beau & Aaron take one final look back on season 8 of Game of Thrones, the most controversial season of television in the history of the world.
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"He killed Daenerys and I felt nothing."
That pretty sums up the finale.
The thing that annoyed me about Jaime’s arc is when he said he never cared about the people, innocent or otherwise. That totally contradicts the bath scene with Brienne.
That line never bothered me, personally. It seemed to me that Jaime was just trying to maintain his usual aloof, cocky persona. Also, just because he doesn’t “care much” about the people of King’s Landing, it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t save them. He just doesn’t have much emotion towards them. That’s just my two cents.
It destroys his entire character, he literally threw away something that he was never able to get back his “honor” in the eyes of the people, they never knew, he suffered in silence which is why he became such an asshole, he admired Ned and wanted to be loved and respected like him for being the “hero” but he would never be, and he accepted and knew that when he sacrificed that for the people, who hated him, and his entire arc over the story is him regaining that honor he knew he could never regain, but digging himself out of a pit of self-loathing and shame
He only killed the Mad King to save his father.
Rayma I disagree he says “would you have done it if your precious renly had ordered you to kill your father AND watched as innocent men women and children burned alive in there homes”
It's not just the bath scene. It's his entire arc that's ruined. Jamie's whole arc wasn't even about HIM realizing that he's a good person per se, it was about the audience coming to realize that this child-crippling, sister-fucking, king-slaying, Ned-Stark Stabbing rich entitled asshole was actually a good person that was forced to portray this aloof shit eating douchebag persona because of how horrible the world he inhabits is. It was about Jamie coming to terms with the fact that he doesn't have to be a shitty person just because he lives in a shitty world. It was about redemption and the complicated, convoluted roads it takes for a person to atone for his past deeds, and the sad reality that despite your best efforts, sometimes you will end up being classed as the villain because the world can only see you for who you portrayed yourself as in the past. It's why his arc is so good, because it resonates strongly with pretty much anybody. It's so ruthlessly human it's almost uncomfortable. Saying he never cared about people, even if it was just him pretending to seem uncaring, was just about the worst way to end his character. He makes all the same mistakes he took 8 seasons to learn to avoid, and not in a poetic "falling back into old patterns" way, but a reductive, stupid, "subverting the audience's expectations" kind of way. It's repulsive, like the entire season's writing.
The ending is divisive because people hate it for different reasons.
For a second, I thought I was in a Last of Us II comment section.
@@psychedelicyeti6053 yeah last of us 2 is divisive with people hating and loving it.
But everyone hates got season 8😂 anyone who likes that knows nothing about storytelling.
@@seancoetzee5399 How about visual storytelling?
@@SporkyMcFly you're gonna have to explain what you mean.
@@seancoetzee5399 How to create a cohesive narritive on screen. This visual storytelling would of course be more engaging if the writing is superb but as an example; you can have two fight scenes with identical writing, a random street fight say.
Option 1: Shaky cam, cuts in between cuts and a blurry filter. Nobody can tell what the fight depicts because the visual storytelling is garbage.
Option 2: The bar fight from Kingsman, "manners maketh man"
The question I'm asking is, did DnD fail in both aspects or was the visual storytelling passable?
"If you knew Bran was going to be king, why, why take him out of an entire season" OMG, I've literally said that to everyone I know.
They made bran’s ending up at the last minute 😭😭 god this whole thing was such a trainereck
@@AlexisBii No, they didn't. It's a George thing.
@@Solo24516 it may have been a George thing but theres no way he wouldve got to that point without a proper build up
@@AlexisBii They definitely didn't. GRRM pretty much confirmed Bran will be king.
@@racheldollton George will definitely make sure it makes more sense than it did in the show
I’m still bothered that Bran’s powers weren’t utilized for anything in season 8. He’s a talking encyclopedia, why wouldn’t anybody ask him SOMETHING?
Because he was the spy for the Night King. See above med three comments :-)
@@okiraanon832 did they explain that?
@@arthurkorff No. But if you read my rather lengthy posts above - or below? - (three posts in total) you will read a suggested alternative ending including why Bran should be a spy - involuntarily, but still.
@@okiraanon832 can you paste it here?
@@arthurkorff
Post 1 of 3
For some reaons this appears to have disappeared
A very good video, thanks!
However, a few comments... why doesn't anybody discuss:
1. The assault and sack of King's Landing is actually performed by ALL the army of the North and South. NOT only Dany. When people around in Westeros hear about it away from King's Landing, then they will hear that the city was destroyed by the entire army. Thus, ALL the conquering leaders and soldiers are 'war criminals' in a modern sense. In a Medieval sense it works slightly different. Destroying cities was not entirely unusual. Same as for the Mongols attacking other countries ("Surrender or we will kill you all - and if you fight, we will you all, even if then decide to surrender!" Massacres and sackings are nothing unusual.
However, this means that Dany is doing nothing that can be construed 'mad' by most of the other people in the GoT world.
2. When they return after the silly roleplaying plot to pick up one undead Wight, why did they not sit down and consider the following issues:
a. How could one, precisely ONE, Wight survive to be captured, when ALL the other Wights died the moment the White Walker died?
b. How could the undead corner us right at a location where we would be holed up till Dany & her dragons arrived right at the precise moment when the Wights attacked again so that the Night’s King can throw a spear(?!) at Viserion?
c. How could Pod actually get through unharmed the armies of the undead while running to the south? Running like he did was not exactly in stealth-mode!
d. Somehow we, a group of people separated in place and time, managed to simultaneously get the idea to go north and unite simultaneously in a group of people that ensured that Dany would bring her dragons to save us…. Were we in fact manipulated?
They should conclude that
Yes! We were manipulated!
Yes! The undead knew we were coming!
Yes! The undead have a way to manipulate us!
… but how?!
And then they must realize that the only real link that the Night’s King has with the people in the south is… Bran! As a consequence they will no longer bring Bran to important meetings. They will try to set up meetings where they bring fake information in the hope they can bring misinformation to their enemy.
… This idea was not used in the series, but that could have brought an interesting twist to Bran’s otherwise utterly dull story arc. Plus it would have brought logic to the silly D&D plot to pick up a single Wight and bring it to south.
3. Bran as king????? Seriously?!
GRRM says something like “Aragorn may be considered the rightful ruler, but what is his tax policy….”
If we do not change anything, the set-up after the last season creates so many problems that GRRM should feel betrayed!
Problem 1:
King’s Landing has been sacked. By an army from the North plus some invaders from Essos. No southern lord or force participated. The surviving nobles in the south will feel that they have been conquered - not liberated. This will generate opposition and future conflict.
Problem 2:
Bran is pronounced King of Westeros. His first action is to lose the North.
He is unproven in battle and is sitting in a wheelchair.
Nobody will respect him even if tells a good story.
Problem 3:
All the positions in the Small Council consists of thieves, mercenaries, and a dwarf. Nobody noble, nobody wise, and nobody from the South. Nobody will trust it.
These three examples show why the vision of GRRM to build something different from Tolkien has failed.
4. One thing that made the show and the world of Westeros different from most was the strong and ambitious women. GRRM is supposedly inspired by Queens Elisabeth I and Mary. Both were ruthless. Neither was mad. GRRM apparent wants to have women play in important part in Westeros.
Yet how does it end…?
Dany killed by a dude, who then manages to avoid suffering death-by-thousands-of-fanatically-loyal-solders-who-have-followed-Daenrys-from-Essos-all-who-would -have-died-for-her!
Sansa in power. In the North.
Bran in power in the south.
Logically, the army of Dany would have gone on the rampage and attacked the Northerners after a Northerner had killed their queen. Another logic that is broken by the idiotic script.
The aim to empower women is at best diluted by the actual script. Sucks!
5. What on Earth/in Westeros were they thinking about with The Long Night and the Night's King/undead attack - how can they consciously accept a total waste of 7 years of "Winter is Coming!" Please compare with the Netflix "Kingdom" series. They managed to blend the ending with undead attacking together with political intrigue in a much more satisfying, intelligent, and storytelling superior way that what happened in S8E3 at the Battle of Winterfell. And they even get to say “Winter has Come! In The Kingdom” Probably as a reference to GoT where the winter-plot was lost.
Sigh... The Battle of Winterfell... what a stupid moronic idiot decided NOT to ask anybody who knows something... ANYTHING... about military affairs... even a simple wargamer could tell that the placement of troops was.... beyond the imbecilic!
Why did they not hire a consultant who could have advised them with military affairs? Arrrgh!!!!!
Mentions Game of Thrones. Old wound starts gushing blood.
GIVEE ME SOMETHIN FOR THE PAIN!!!!😭😭🤣
Fire EmPreSs NOT MILK OF THE POPPY
Lol my thoughts exactly. These dudes are prob pissed too because game of thrones is why many followed their channel.
Season 8 brought us Covid
Time to get over it, aye?
I remember when I first saw the finale thinking "Well, that was a bad ending, but I would still rewatch the first six seasons, and maybe write my own fanfiction for how the last two should have gone." But as time has gone on, I've slowly lost interest in even rewatching the early seasons, which is sad. Just goes to show how pivotal an ending is to a story. S8 did more than just feel like a bad ending; it retroactively made the entire story feel anti-climatic.
Rewatched the show countless times over the years. Couldn’t care less now.
I've seen a lot of fan fictions out there using what we had from season 7 or changing things from season 5 onward and they helped a lot. Macabre storytelling has a whole series where hes rewritten character by character and it helps a lot. I dont like everything he does but it's a hell of a lot better than what we actually got. Makes it easier to rewatch and 1-4 are so good you could pretend everything ends with Tyrion killing tywin lol.
The ending to Mass Effect 3 was the only series ending of any medium that made me feel similarly to the ending of Game of Thrones. It just totally deflated the impact of the rest of the series.
Exactly.
Incredible that HBO allowed D&D to ruin such a potentially lucretive franchise!
“The show took a little dip after passing the books” understatement of the century.
The Titanic took a little dip after hitting the iceberg.
Literally all they had to say to explain the food was have Dany say "Do you seriously believe I would cart 2 armies and 3 full grown dragons across the Narrow Sea without enough food to sustain them?" And then they could get away with never mentioning it again
Real millitary manuevers had things like supply lines for food but yeah, it is what it is.
and maybe not have her incinerate a mile long line of wagons containing food :/
@@Ma55ey still pissed that that was never an issue. Cersei could've used that as propaganda against Danny. "Look the invaders destroyed all our food for the long winter!" Nope, totally forgotten about, not a big deal
@@renegadexblackout Nope, totally forgotten about, not a big deal!!!! you could sum up the show with that statement.... unfortunately...
Remember when Dany burned dozens upon dozens of carts full of food while her army was short on food in S7?
"Arya is one of my favorite characters" bruh Arya hasn't been a character in at least 2 seasons
She didn't become hardened. She stopped being a character
Disagree that is her character but she has always still had emotion like giving up revenge to go home to her family and being with gendry
I agree I lost interest in Arya as soon as she ended up with the faceless assassins which is a snooze fest IMO
@@yasolivia8177 not staying in a crumbling building to stab someone who will obviously die anyone is not being a character. Having meanlingless sex is even less of being a character. Just doing anything that isn't murder doesn't make her an actual character
Chronistic well then u can say that about every character then coz we see Arya do other things aswell as being a warrior but that is I big part of her character because that is what she always wanted and trained for it so we are obviously gonna see her fight a lot coz if we didn’t people would just complain that we didn’t see her fight
@@yasolivia8177 yes, we also see her say cringy, threatening bullshit because "im a badass" and "sometimes i like my family" is all she is now.
The fact that we sometimes she her do anything other than fight does not mean she hasn't been stripped of any form of humanity (which is how D and D seem to perceive stronger female characers, rape is good and not being a person makes you strong)
Seeing her fight a lot has nothing to do with her personality, what are you even on about
When did she learn to fight? While fighting with a stick while blind? Or while cutting off magic faces?
"Show, don't tell" extends to "show, don't gloss over and hope people don't realize"
Night King was Jon and Bran's storyline, not Arya. Arya shouldn't even have been involved. Have her kill Cersei.
But everyone was expecting that! Gotta subvert expectations!
I think Jaime should have
@@Gh0stGaminginc I think Jaime should have died in the long night. And, Arya should have taken his face and then gone to kings landing to kill Cersei.
But... but... girl boss? Right?....
The biggest issue I had with Jaime's arc was that his ultimate ending ruined the single greatest scene in Thrones (in my opinion). The bath scene in Kissed By Fire Jaime puts everything on the line, we understand why he killed the Mad King, he put his own reputation & essentially life on the line to defend the people yet ultimately he claims he never cared, he's hateful. Sorry but no. Jaime dying by Cersei's side makes sense, Jaime dying in Cersei's arms under 10cm of rubble was laughable.
(Dont get me started on Grand Maester Sam & Arya's plot armour).
Also... Appreciate your work fellas.
And now our watch has ended.
Love that soup boys
We shall never see their like again...
Never new nerd soup could smell so good...
Until house of the dragon
@@TheIrishSpartacus gimme a hot bowl of nerd soup
One little thing that irks me more than it should: the inconsistency of strengths & powers, especially w the dragons. Ie, prior to the battle of Winterfell Viserion's ice fire is powerful enough to bring down the Wall. During the battle of Winterfell it doesn't even singe a rock Jon Snow is hiding behind. That & the fact that Rhaegal couldn't see any of the ships below even with the major tactical advantage you have at that height.
Yeah, it fails at making Euron a great villain, you just feel like Dany and her dragons which is one of the most expected things to see where overrated this whole time
Why "more than it should"? It's terrible writing to not adhere to rules and characters you have set up and can utterly destroy any world and story
@Thinking Clearly Two lmao he was boring in season 6, and he's been a clown in 7 as well
@@holysecret2 i think the implication is that it shouldnt bother him at all becaues it shouldnt have been a problem in the first place
@@holysecret2 because at the end of the day, it's just a tv show. It means bugger all. To still be irritated at all about it in 2020 when the world is currently a dumpster fire is mind blowing.
Jaime willingly gave up his honor as a knight and became a kingslayer to save the "innocent people" of King's Landing. That single act of supreme good is what grounds his character, and acts as the foundation for all the personal conflicts that are built up over the course of the series.
His justification for his return to Cersei by saying that he never cared about "innocent people" is incredibly baffling as a result as it goes against the very core of who he is. I struggle to understand those that don't criticize his arc in season 8.
"Why should Bran be king?"
"Because... Haven't you read the script?"
That's the whole last season.
"Why?"
"Because we wrote it that way..."
Tyrion was on trial for the attempted murder of Bran in season 1, led the defence of kings landing in season 2, married the sister of the rebel king in season 3, was on trial and conficted of murdering the king in season 4, met up with danaerys targaryann in season 5, negotiated a truce with the slavers in season 6, before becoming her HOTQ, organizes the siege of Casterly Rock in season 7, basically chooses the next king after abandoning Dany in season 8.
How the absolute fuck can you be fine or even like the fact he is not mentioned in the book at the end
Sansa is Robb's sister not daughter.
This!! When Varys said what he said in season 3 he was very specifically talking about how history is dictated by those who survive it, them being the only people left to tell the tale. For them to take this to the extreme, when he's been formally recognized as killing the king, actually killed the hand of the king, and acted as hand to the daughter of the former king during her invasion to reclaim his throne, it's utterly ridiculous to even think back to the conversation and think it'd be clever to do it.
@@manvirshergill1739 you're right lmao, my b. Was pretty drunk when I wrote that
just because things are supposed to happen a certain way, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do them that way. Frodo didn’t suddenly die and Sméagol became the hero just because it wouldve been surprising.
Or the balrog being killed by Gimli because it ‘felt right’.
I agree, but lord of the rings is a very traditional fantasy, so subversions dont work, u cannot say you don't want subversions of expectations in game of thrones, we wouldn't have red wedding, neds death, oberyns death and more, subverting expectations is core to game of thrones, it is done poorly in season 8 tho
robert windon yeah but there is a difference between plot driven, well grounded subversions like the red wedding, and ass-pulls like Arya offing the Night King instead of Jon. That was just twisting for the sake of a twist, just like Star Wars has done.
MDA TAMU not to mention a lot of the unrealistic and stupid moments people completely ignore when saying this show plays things more realistically. Yes, some of the things fans wanted to see would be too LOTR, but don’t ignore the painfully obvious plot armor and ruined characters.
@@mdandrews I could see Arya killing him if Jon was fighting him at the time.
The destruction of the main plot(Night King/White Walkers) was the most damaging in all of television history I think. To build up 7 years for nothing and not only nothing, but to go against the whole point of the show in the first place really hits hard for wasting such potential.
'but to go against the whole point of the show...'
Tell me, what is the point of the show?
@Booper Dooper If that was the case, it wouldn't be called A Song of Ice AND FIRE, would it? The fire part is just as important as the ice part and those two parts mirror each other and go in parallel. Because, while the people in the books are blind through their power struggles of the dangers the WWs pose, so are the people in REAL LIFE blind to the danger Dany poses and people like Dany in the real world.
The one thing I will give the fandom a lot of respect for is that, for as bad as the season was, they never took it out on the actors. They didn't what the star wars fans did with Kelly Marie Tran, bullying and even discriminating against someone who had no real creative input on the final product to the point that they vanished. The fans knew where to spew their frustration and directed it at the show runners.
No characters were forced down the viewer throats . Everyone written in made sense.
Star wars fans have a weird thing with harassing actors they don't like, they did it with Hayden and the guy who played jar jar too
Season 8 has really ruined the show for me. It’ll be hard to go back and rewatch from season one knowing that the white walkers meant jack all. Jamie ending up going straight back to Cersei, Jon’s multiple showdown teases with the Night King. To say I’m gutted with game of thrones and the way it ended is an understatement. No one, or anyone I know, cares about it anymore. It’s gutting
I absolutely loved it up to season 4. 5 bored the hell out of me, 6 caught me again, 7 lost me again. And 8 finally stepped over the line where I couldn't even pretend to care anymore.
I haven't thought about GoT since other than having fun watching pisstakes on seasons 7-8. It's like I don't even care one bit anymore, when I used to look forward to the next season from season 1 onwards.
I hope that this didn't ruin GRRM's legacy to a point where nobody will even care anymore. But I fear that it might have
Trying to care about Game of Thrones now is just hard. You gotta know when to let it go and I think the whole world just decided to give it up
Yea me too
I rewatched Hardhome dozens of times and never got sick of it. After season 8 and rewatched the entirety of the show because it was my boyfriend's first time watching GoT, when we finally got to Hardhome, I felt nothing. Very sad...
@@holysecret2 Hopefully it shouldn't ruin it, because he made the books and not the show
I felt betrayed on the delivery of Jon's story.
He was continually faced off against the Night King, fought to bring together the armies of the living, and was the embodiment of Ice and Fire.
For him to not have had at least ONE sword fight with the Night King is the biggest cucking event in fiction.
The payoff would have been massive.
Jon should have been elected by the council to be King, just as he had been elected to be Lord Commander of the Nights watch and King in the North before.
Jon could have then abdicated the throne to Bran, knowing he would be a fair and just King.
But Season 8 Jon was stripped of all agency, and became a passenger to bad writing.
This CZcams comment was written better than all of season 8.
Jon definitely didn't get the hero's pay off we were asking for. He should have at least fought Greyworm in a final trial by combat move. It felt like they teased that quite a bit and never delivered.
“MY QUEEN!! They don’t have a choice! She is the queen!” God that pissed me off beyond belief. And yeah a lot of people were jumping at us saying we wanted some grand epic Disney level battle. Well for one thing, our ideas would’ve been a lot more emotionally impactful and way more epic. For how big this battle was, it really lost its weight seeing how inconsistent some of the plot armor and overall strategies were. Forgive us for wanting to see a long awaited duel with Jon and NK, but don’t think we wouldn’t be satisfied with just a few sword clangs (although some definitely would expect more of course). He wouldn’t even have to kill the NK, just showcase characters doing cool stuff in a battle that’s been built up for 8 seasons. If they really played it realistically like old GOT, everyone sitting outside the castle like idiots would’ve been wiped out immediately, and yet people forget that too. Idk, it’s just difficult and not worth it to get so worked up over this, but still.
I will never forget the goosebumps when we first found out about Jon's parents and later that the is the rightful heir. And then they threw all of that in the trash.
@@Gaminating 100% have them jousting in the skies on their dragons, have jon fighting the NK while the other Valyrian steel wielders fight his lieutenants, have ghost's fangs tipped with obsidian, have bran warg into Rhaegal so Jon can have a clear path to the NK. So many cool things, but almost anything would have been better than what we got
Seriously? You are ok with the Others being used as a plot device? They were supposed to be the final villains, both the show and books start with them, not with Cercei, not with Jon, not with Danny, not with Jaime, but with the white walkers.
theyre literally the existential threat put there to show how trivial the game of thrones is lol
I’m not entirely sure it’s a “final villain” sort of ordeal in the books or at the very least it probably won’t end up that way. George is notorious for setting things up simply to subvert things and twist them later. He does this over and over and over again in the books, I’m almost certain if we ever get the last two books the white walkers won’t just fight the humans and then that’s it. There’s definitely going to be more to it than just a fight for survival.
@@sergiomendoza4040 Yes, but when Martin subverts expectations, its never out of nowhere, at least in the long run. There is always some foreshadowing, whether that is through another character's pov, or consequences catching up with the heroes and villains. The Others in the show were an afterthought, and they were swept aside for Danny. Even Cersei, someone you can make a point of being the main "villain" of the story, was ignored. Mind you, the Others in the show were simply ice zombies, while in the books they are described very differently. I do believe that there will be far more to the white walkers than what the show did, but they will not be just another battle that the "heroes" must overcome on their way to the throne. The long night will have grave consequences in the books, mainly because of the whole subversion thing Martin has going on. When I said they were the final villains, I did not mean that the story would conculed with : And as the last of the Others falls so does peace spreads her wings over the realm, the end. Character arcs do not have to close with a villain being defeated.
@@johnmoshos2435 agreed.
@@YoungSavage You totally stole that line from Brandon M. Jacob’s video lol. Not that I disagree.
For years GoT was considered one of the greatest tv shows ever, there was always alot of hype around it every season... Then just like that it's almost like it never existed, I havnt heard anyone even mention the show in months outside of YT.
@Raymond Sims It is but it will always be remembered for how poorly it ended
The word subvert should be banned from media for the next decade
You can thank Snoke for killing it.
@@badgasaurus4211 I'd rather just curse Rian Johnson fans since it's their defense for his bad decisions
@@CodySvsTheNet which decisions were bad, snoke was boring and his death was great, apart from that most of his subversions are just character or story decisions that most people dont agree with, that doesn't make them bad
PRIME example: The Last of us 2
robert windon Luke’s death was poor. If he was going to die via force projection anyway then he should have just went there in person. Really underwhelming and weak death for such an important character. There is no defence for that. Finn sacrificing himself to buy the rebels more time to escape and Rose crashing into him (even though finn was closer to the cannon than her so there was no way she would be able to catch up in time to stop him from that angle because they are both in the same craft). Then she gives that dreadful line about saving what we love even though she just stopped finn from saving the rebels... Another one is the Holdo manoeuvre because it begs the question why smaller crafts were not made and used in such a manner before if it is so powerful. Just a bad ex machina. Speaking of ex machinas, same goes for Leia being blown out a ship then using the force in a manner never seen before to save her life despite displaying no force abilities in the past. The new ability isn’t bad in isolation, just in the context of the ex machina and lack of force ability showcase. She should have died. There’s other stuff like Cantobite being a complete waste of time accomplishing to the plot but that wouldn’t be classed as subversion and ‘bad decisions’ more just needless padding and on the nose comments about money driving war and animal abuse.
FINALLY i practically anticapated this more than the actual season
And it was just as frustrating as the actual season
yes the anticapation
I saw the notification and I just laughed. I have been watching their past videos on game of thrones.
Bo makes a lot of great points (even if I disagree with a few of them) but I went into this video *knowing* Arron was going to defend it as much as possible, and of course, I was right. He plays devil's advocate the entire time but 54:49 sums up my frustration with his points.
@@cybele_mullejz correction: "GoT is great... but what happened with the last 4 seasons?"
One of the most annoying aspects of season 8 for me was the showrunners constantly patting themselves on the back with their constant callbacks.
The bottom line is d&d wanted to move on and they crammed too much story into 2 seasons. This show will always have a place in my heart it was incredible.
Then why didn’t they leave the show before season 7 they wanted the credit for all of got but were not ready to put the work in to give it a proper ending, fuck them and glad karma came back to bite then
The problem with the last two series as a whole is that things weren’t properly earned. In Avengers Endgame even the cheesy ones were earned and I got chills with that final battle. That is what the ending should have been.
Noree Hix game of thrones is the Start Work
Endgame was epic for sure. However it ruined Thanos's character and left an unresolved arc for Thor.
@@ScumAnt well in his defense Thor still has a movie left
@hyndergogen even when they had the books to support them, they still managed to fuck it up, from foreshadowing the red wedding to everything about Season 5 and 6 where Stannis should have won but face a honorable battle to the death against the Others upon learning that Melissandre burned Shireen since misinformation spread across Castle Black of Stannis' demise at the hands of Ramsay (a ploy to demoralize the leftover Stannis loyalists as well as oust Jon as lord commander, although it's possible that Mance wrote it as well to get Jon to bring the wildlings)
Rheya Ruiz yeah but they didn’t kill off Aang in season 1. They also didn’t lay a hand on woman and children.
The worst thing D&D did was RUSH the amazing story of game of thrones. They got greedy and rushed it aside thinking they were going to work on a new Star Wars project and be gods in the nerd world. We should have gotten more seasons and more time for the audience to say goodbye to these loved characters. They got lazy and greedy when they had gold and thats a big no no.
Well........ @ least they will have a great legacy of destroying the most successful series ever.
@A.L Executive producers are the reasons you couldn't find a decent and daring TV show for decades to save your life. If you don't take creative risks you'll never get the rewards. GOT S8 was spectacular TV.
@@SerbAtheist The Wire, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad were more daring than this half-arsed shite.
They didn't really rush it... The show was away for 2 1/2 years. That is plenty of time to film 10 or 12 episodes instead of 8.
@@SerbAtheist Spectecular TV, incredibly bad storytelling.
The reason Hardhome (best episode in the series IMO) lead to the long night being disappointing to me was because I felt that they finally revealed the real villain and hero meeting each other and was a foreshadow to an epic fight between the two just to have a very anticlimactic ending story. If you told me back then that Jon and the Night King would never cross swords or they wouldn’t kill each other I would have said your crazy. I genuinely thought that the Night King was looking at Jon that way because he somehow knew he was Azor Ahai reborn and he was aware that he was going to be his biggest obstacle in the final conflict.
When has GOT EVER worked in such a straightforward fashion? The narrative structure of GOT has ALWAYS been messy ON PURPOSE! Instead of the familiar story beats is something much closer to the way reality works and is all the better for it.
It physically hurts me to talk about Game of Thrones now, I am ACTUALLY damaged by it lmaooo but I will watch this for you guys
It's only better when you make fun of it
"It's so bad, it's good"
Yes totally agree, to this day I cannot stomach the garbage called season 8
It's just like Disney Star Wars: great acting, cinematography, costumes, sets, effects and overall production, but all of that means nothing if the story and characters make no sense and are shite
Just like plinkett said funnily enough
Disney Star Wars? No, the sequel trilogy. Literally every other project made by Lucasfilm/Disney in every other medium has been fantastic, especially TV and novels. Don't label all those mediums under the wide umbrella of the Sequel Trilogy shit.
@@todo3602 yeah yeah, I also like some Disney stuff like Mandalorian, Rebels, the Darth Vader comic and whatnot, but we all get what I mean
@@todo3602 The Disney Star Wars comics are lowkey dogshit. The artwork for starships is even plagiarized in certain issues. It is not just the sequel trilogy.
They both have annoying repaeating dialogue with Finn screaming Rey all the time and jon Snow "you are my queen"
I think 'The Bells' and Dany's heel turn would have worked better if they had saved Rhagael's death and/or Missandei's death to happen in the episode itself as the the straw that breaks the camels back. I think the audience might even be more forgiving of the sudden turn if happened spur of the moment.
I always felt like Tyrion should’ve went himself to negotiate with Cersei about ringing the bells (instead of sending Jamie). There could’ve been a great dialogue scene between Tyrion and Cersei, which would end in her accepting his offer and ringing the bells but, in classic GoT fashion, have Mountain throw Tyrion off the window (remember that she wanted him dead the entire season). And that could be the switch for Danny. That moment, in which she witnesses her most loyal (and last) ally die. So, regardless of the bells and Cersei’s surrender, she goes mental and torches everything. (Not sure if it would've been enough to save the season, but it would make at least that part more sensible. At least to me.)
@Rheya Ruiz you are completely right in everything you said about the entire build up meaning there is no way to save it. But having rhaegal and missandei die in the episode sending dany into a blind rage would have helped a little, teeny, insy, weeny, tiny, tiny bit lol.
@@chandrawagner4061 how about as Tyrion approaches the red keep to talk with his sister he sees a brutally beaten and dying missandei lashed above the gateway. With an averted look he decides that the right talk could save the city, putting aside this act is worth so many lives...
The siblings talk, she accepts the deal that ringing bells to signal surrender will mean her banishment or whatever his foul appetites on tyrion "...then pin anything that still remains up with that slave bitch"...
The bells ring and a dragon victory lap takes place with cheering crowd, happy they won't die.
Then Danni sees her two advisors dead and defiled.
Betrayed under house protection she wants to avenge tyrion. Realising what missandei must have endured tips her over the edge- fighting back tears she is resolved to repay this treachery they ALL must pay- a hundredfold!
@@fomoran ooh I like that. That is a take I havent heard! I really like the idea of Cersei surrendering but still doing something cruel and terrible to dany first. I would also add that her destruction starts at the red keep not on the townsfolk but as she destroys kore and more it's not enough for her because shes so angry. Or something like that.
If she’d totalled the red keep & civilians had got killed in crossfire it would have been better
I respect Nerd Soup for attempting to find some bright spots in an overall dark and dismal season, even if they do have to dance around some hard truths or gloss over a few key mistakes to make it happen. Personally I don't give the writers a pass just because the show was important to me for as long as it was. This one is a long lasting hurt...
Trying to find bright spots, dancing around hard truths and glossing over a LOT of major makes shouldn't invite respect. It just comes off as pathetic and delusional. Like some physically and sexually assaulted housewife saying "but he's a good man" while she's still torn, bruised and bleeding from that nights drunken rampage..
Season 6, 7 and 8 were shit not just 8
Guess you guys forgotten about the sand snakes, the teleportation happening all the time the Weif t-1000 and the whole Dorn plot
You’re absolutely right but Battle of the Bastards saved season 6 for a lot of people.
I didn't like Arya killing the Night king story wise, but that was a great scene and a fantastic piece of music.
Jon being Aegon ultimately meant nothing.
I hated Queen Sansa, it made no sense. In the books Sansa learning to become like Little Finger makes sense. But she has never been much of a northerner, books or show.
Bran being a greenseer or the three eyed raven or whatever was ultimately pointless. He did nothing to help defeat the Night king, he did nothing to help take King's landing.
I didn't like season 8.
I know you're revisiting Season 8 but please don't forget that THEY WERE BOYS! It's important. Thanks.
THEY DIDINT WUN IT! THEY NEVA AVE!!!
THEY WERE BOYS!!!!!
lmaoooooooooooooooooo my coffee has been spewed lol
@@FelicityGemini So it was your coffee cup in that one scene.
@@FutureDeep only continuity that matters lol
If I took a shot everytime Beaux interrupted Monkey I’d be dead. Let him speak man jeez
Another problem i had with D&D was that in interviews they showed that they did not always understood the lore. I dont recall specifics, but they tried explaining plots in the later seasons which did not make any sense story wise, disregarding the lore resulting in major plot holes. If that is the core of story development for the last seasons, no wonder that it did not even make any sense anymore near the end.
Edit: Also i heard them say something about the long night episode, that the viewer wanted to see their heroes survive... I dont think anyone really wanted that. Sure those characters later on did things that they couldnt do if they died, but letting everybody survive just feels empty and predictable. Game of Thrones was good because it was everything but predictable
And it was good because the unpredictable parts still made logical sense in hindsight. Not so much in the later seasons.
"you could of been gods" echoes my sentiment. Game of Thrones is still a good series, It "could have been the greatest series of all time", that's what stings the most the knowledge of what it "could" have been
It's like having the chance to score a point that will make you one of the greatest champions ever in any sport and missing it by a mile.
Totally agree
@@laurocoman Federer Wimbledon 2019 T_T
@@bocusfocus9714 Higuaín in the 2014 World Cup.
Game of Thrones is not still a good series. There is no way to grade each season and take an average that comes out above a C-.
Why would you want to hurt yourselves willingly?
Because we want to feel again.
Someone doesn’t know about self harm
Did yall really just say Sansa was at her best this season?
the fact that 2 hack writters destroyed their own reputation and might never recovered never failed to put a smile on my face.
I don’t know why but I have a primitive guttural reaction to season 8. I lose all ability to use logic and reason and just get filled with rage. But thanks for Attempting a levelheaded video. But it’s just too soon
Black Beard Yep, too soon. The only good thing to come out of S8 is that I started reading the books.
I agree, I cant even watch old videos now. Its just so disappointing, I should of known after season 7 but in my naivety I thought theyd fix it.
Agree that it’s too soon. I have a strictly emotional reaction to season 8 that I can’t shake yet
Edward Seely I feel like so many of us knew in our guts at Season 7 and I wish I would’ve listened to that goddamn gut feeling
Lexigoo So true😂
Plot became more important than character and the characters became dumb in order to make the decisions that the plot needed to happen. Stoopid.
"Do you like Arya killing the night king?"
"Yes, I do."
BETRAYAL!!!!
How could you?!?! I'm devastated.
Johnlocked the impala lol true
At first I didn’t appreciate it but she was the best person to take him out. We’ve never really seen Jon lose a fight and frankly it wasn’t a matter of if he’d win in a duel. Having Arya who was trained to kill by the faceless men. The girl who studies and dodged death, destroys the second most closest representation of death was well earned and a pleasant subversion. This isn’t a classic mid evil knights and ladies live happily ever after so no Jon killing the Night king and marrying Daenerys wouldn’t of been cool (I know you didn’t say it but I get the Jon and Daenerys should of been a thing a lot)
One cool thing that they could have done easily in the Battle of Winterfell... when you kill a White Walker, its wights crumble. Show a few WW going down and small handfuls of corresponding wights crumbling. Small domino effects. Then zoom out and you see a sea of hand-to-hand combat with little pockets of crumbling wights like a fireworks show whenever a White Walker goes down.
Helms deep was at night time and dark and you could still see every bit of action while it didnt ruin the immersion at all. Also bruh all I wanted was Jon to fight the night king he could've got his ass whooped and I'd be fine with that
Me too dude. People act like we want some Avengers level duel. No, but literally some sort of action with swords clanging would’ve been cool. I definitely understand why the NK wouldn’t put himself in active danger in the middle of battle, but everyone going on about how this show plays everything so realistic are completely ignoring things like horrible plot armor. It’s been a year, so I really don’t pay much mind to it anymore, but on occasion I’ll talk about it.
What irks me most is that nobody in the long night ever even faces a white walker. All the valerian steel in that battle, and none of it matters. Just another one of those many, many things that are set up and never pay off.
The fight with the white walker in season 5 is so cool. Sadly it's the last time you see one in a fight.
@@Gaminating I can only imagine that was the plan before they turned on a dime not wanting to serve up what was expected.
Why else change the original night king for the swordfighting trainer unless you plan to use the obvious valerian steel threat against an ancient magically brilliant swordsman who you can't even touch... Subversion? The show runners are hacks!
@@Gaminating Anyone who says the battle was realistic when every nameless character got slaughtered while Sam was sitting and crying on a pile of bodies and somehow was saved at the last second the only times anyone came at him
Jon should have killed the night king period
D&D could have put one quick scene in the finale showing how “Bran” aka Bloodraven, 3 eyed crows, etc manipulated events in the entire story and this would have altered most opinions.
Nah don’t think so. Too much wrong with the season. One quick scene can’t save what happened with the night King
Badgasaurus Yeah, this could be done. Showing how like Bloodraven drove the mad king even more mad but did this to Dany. Simple trickery would have greatly altered opinions for this dumpster fire. I didn’t say it would have saved it, but a series of flashbacks would have likely improved it so it wasn’t the worst finale ever made. Bran is where they failed the most and that is saying something for this one.
maaaaaaaybe... but, I think you're probably only talking about like a 10% improvement, tops. (and I'm not someone who categorically hates the entire season) Even then, I could see plenty jumping on that it would've been that sort of cliched trope of "and now at the climax a montage of all how it REALLY happened the entire time". That gets done a healthy amount in mystery stories.
Kevin W Just that Bran did SOMETHING would have been 10% better. He didn’t even send the horse. Jumping through glimpses and leaving the mystery open a little could have been amazing! And I’m not one who bashed any of the prior seasons despite being a book wanker, they were all entertaining!
@@shannond7437 ya know what still kinda kills me? In the realtime of when I was watching episode 3 for the first time, there was a brief moment where I genuinely thought Bran HAD warged into one of the dragons. It's one of those things, it felt more encompassing as it happened, you look back now and it's like maybe 7 total seconds of screentime. But it was after the Night King initiated the big zombie raise from all the dead soldiers when Jon was like 30 yards away from him. He starts getting swarmed, but then a giant dragonfire breath comes scorching down, and the way it was staged, that fireball seemed VERY strategically placed, getting as close to Jon as possible without hitting him. The dragon lands and even though it's the one Dany's still riding, Jon yells "Bran!" right at it/them. I became elated because I thought Bran got into the dragon brain cockpit specifically to help Jon there. Not only did I fail to realize Drogon's eyes weren't distinctly discolored (telltale sign of being warged) it took a minute for it to click Jon screamed Bran's name solely to communicate to Dany Bran's physical protection was now ALL that mattered. Obviously that was essential for the whole plan anyway, but I'd so wanted to believe he was "talking to" Bran inside Drogo.
How in the hell can you possibly like Arya killing the Night King?! She has ZERO stake in it, and Jon's entire character arc was leading to his confrontation with the Night King, and Arya gets to have that moment?! It's completely bonkers. And you have a T-shirt for it. Wow
It would have made sense if Jon had a sword fight with the Night King and lost but was still alive. And Arya after her dope sneak scene through the library had secretly used a walkers face to get close and when the NK was about to land the final blow on a distracted bran she lunges for the kill. But I’m with you. Maybe she fails and instead of doing her knife drop move she tosses it to a beaten Jon and Jon stabs the NK in the back and it’s over. Either way there are a ton of better ways to get to the same conclusion
Arya has been 'chasing the black cat' since S1. Her entire story is dealing with death on every single level. And what is Jon's 'stake'? You want him to kill the NK because you have convinced yourself that the Azor Ahai prophecy is referring to the NK. The possibility that it is actually referring to DANY never even crosses your minds. Jon is Azor Ahai, but the true enemy he must defeat is not the Night King, but Daenerys Targaryen.
@SerbAtheist jon being actually fighting and dealing with whites since season 1 so yeah more important for him to kill nk than Arya
The writers themselves actually confirmed that in the last episode there was a snow storm, it wasn't even ash.
@Vandole and it would have been pretty cool if those were actually ashes of the people Dany burned alive, a very fucked up but quite clever twist on the vision she saw in one of the earlier season. but NOPE! they didn't even have the brain cells to do at least that, in one of the worst ending in the history of Television.
@@billnguyen4148 It is a snowstorm because Dany brought winter to KL. 'Winter is coming' was always a warning about her and a clear indication that the NK was just a red herring.
Bran was the most disappointing character that had the most potential this season
"If George ever finishes the books", that's such a scary thought.
If 2020 wasn’t mad enough
I gave up hope on george finishing them a long time ago
Dalle Smalhals but Sanderson did a pretty good job though
Dalle Smalhals also it’s finished
Y'all are never seeing the ending of this show
For years this show gave me so much joy. I didn't think a show like this was even possible. So the last couple of seasons couldn't live up to the loftiest standards ever set for a television show and people turned on it like I'd never seen before. Maybe that's a measure s to how much the show meant to people. I don't hate it, it wasn't what I wanted but what I wanted was for the show to go another ten seasons but that's me...in the end, this show gave me so much joy.
can we talk about how a weapon that’s special because it’s forged from dragon fire can kill the Night king but actual full on dragon fire does nothing? dumb.
Bran: I have seen four million and sixteen possible outcomes to the coming battle.
Jon: How many do we win?
Bran: All of them.
Bran: Well, I do.
Jon: What?
King Bran: ;p
For people trying to say that "there were always signs that daenerys was going to go crazy", this is like saying that Walter White would be a chemestry teacher who cooks meth on the side for 5 seasons and then in the last episode he orders those kills in prisons
Exactly. And the way they capitalize on the red keep as Dany watches was a powerful moment. In that moment I felt dead certain she’s going right for the red keep and I got pumped. Wait- no? Oh, don’t tell me... I feel like if we had even just one more episode in between ep 4 and 5 to showcase her transition, it would’ve helped a little at least. Like everything in this season, it just moved way too quickly.
TheGaminator they made her completely delusional saying the sky was piss yellow when it’s clearly blue and that’s not who she is. it didn’t work and the dany haters who love it HATE that so many hate it. i’m so glad people hated that mad queen arc
Upon finding out she'd executed a Master who spoke out against slavery she didn't really flinch. She did become a bit of a Sith as well.... Though that was the writing contradicting itself since she let Jorah live. I could see a bit of crazy even early on but little of the progression fit. Her justification for slaughtering innocent people was well they haven't rose up and dethroned Cersei.... Yea um you armed and assisted those cities that did prior.
If the writing wasn't crap Tyrion would have told her the citizens had already tried during the days of Joffrey.
@Vandole Did you read or just not comprehend? Also Yes the Citizens were mentioned and blamed for not rising up as others had.
The marathon runner though.... Why would one not attend a all you can eat contest after? Those two things can be very connected.
Bruh. Book two she rocks up at a city with a group of tribal people who mostly just rape and pillage any place without walls, and when they rightfully don't let her in unless she shows them she's actually special and has some dragons she tells them she's gonna burn the place to the ground. Perhaps that's a reasonable reaction for some, but when it's a matter of life and death for the people you swore to protect (Actually, swore "those who would harm you will die screaming". A badass line, but kinda fits the narrative I'm going for.) I'm not sure that that's the best response.
I predict that bagging on Game of Thrones' last season will be the only thing people remember about it ten years from now.
The Battle of Winterfell with the Night King should have been lost. Retreat to King's Landing takes a couple of episodes where the survivors are on the run.
I loved when you said "everyone seemed to be united in their hatred for the final season"
Sydni Taylor I used to hate it but after rewatching the series I actually love the final season now. Seeing more and more balanced takes from latest reviews too
@@takum5072 okay, nobody said you couldn't eventually love it and everyone has a right to feel how they feel. The final season doesn't ruin my days because it's just a show and there's other shows out now. I don't have to care for the final season I've seen too many plot holes and inconsistencies in the last two seasons.
@Joshua Foley We all have a right to feel how we feel, especially sense we've invested our time into it and were passionate about it at some point. Like I just told @Taku Music the final season doesn't ruin my day, I watch other shows. Yes I'm still a fan of the show, but I don't dislike or trash anyone's comments because they enjoyed it so if you both don't like what I say it's easy to keep scrolling and I'm not trying to be rude.
@Joshua Foley you're fine 😉
Game of Thrones Season 8 taught me that no matter how masterful something is in the beginning , its not impossible to completely F*CK it up at the end.
Last of Us II? 😝
I think the bells in Drogo’s hair and the bells in Kings Landing will definitely have a connection in Dany’s head in the books. Something like as she hears the bells in King’s Landing she imagines or hallucinates Drogo’s bells and it makes her snap. Idk it’s a theory.
In my pre-ep discussion of the Long Night, I was like “No chance the living wins, they get shattered here and have to fall back, the next 2 eps are regrouping and then one final fight that they win” somebody disagreed with me, they were like “No, they win, it’s just the NK actually took the bulk of his force to KL in a surprise attack!” I think it’s ironic neither of us were right.
I like how they avoided talking about Drogon burning the throne which they praised for all the meaning during the first review but we found out that it meant nothing and they gave D & D way too much credit
Thats why I unsubscribed from them theres no defending this travesty of a season.
Czech American 🙄 I mean you like their content right? Why stop supporting them
Kit should be Ned in the GoT remake 20 years from now.
I can’t wait 20 years. I need a remake of season 8 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE before the actors age in a way that unmaskable with cgi/special effects. Otherwise I will Sunshine of the Spotless Mind this show out of my head and memories for good. 8 years of white walker build-up...
FOR NOTHING!!!!!!🤬!!!!😡😡😡😖🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We might get Winds Of Winter... but there is no chance in Hell we are getting the final book. George will be long dead before.
Thinking Clearly Two This is my new headcanon for the show. Thanks 🙂
I always thought I would be constantly rewatching throwns, however after season 8 aired I haven’t touched the show at all. Hurt me too much lmao
I stopped listening after one of these guys said they liked Arya killing the night king. There's no justifiable narrative reason why she should've been the one. And he liked it cos he likes the character? Laughable
Yeah like they are making some points I can't even comprehend. For example they liked where characters ended up? Or the episodes are "fine" when viewed on their own?
Also they seem to talk about season 8 as if that was the point where things went wrong, when you can trace it back to season 5, or at least season 7.
Yumidori Iro the episodes viewed individually are just miserable. Just a miserable experience
@@holysecret2 yep. In what way was Jon's ending satisfying? Going back north, banished because he got his balls written out of his own character? It's bullshit when reviewers say they want to offer a more balanced or less emotional perspective as if they're the diplomatic middle ground that can consider all sides. Fuck off. I never read the books so I'm no hard core fan, but accepting this kind of mediocrity in story telling and character development and making blatant excuses for it based on subjective fuckwittery is inexcusable. I expected more from this channel.
You guys did not criticise this horrendous season enough
Now every time someone brings the show up is to shit on it. It's like the show itself was suddenly killed in an anti climax.
It basically was.
@@WhyNotTruth Yeah, I guess.
@Jay Jones When I tried to rewatch I only got 1 minute in. The first scene features the White Walkers, so I remembered right there how they deal with them in season 8. That was a turn-off from the get go, so I didn't bother.
Jay Jones yea if people have never seen it before I tell them to watch the first couple seasons at least cuz those are still amazing
But for the people who really hardcore zero in on the whole "you have 7 seasons of build up of what the 'real', broader context threat is and then that's all done in one episode halfway thru" aspect for what now so quickly stokes their hate (including pointing out the series' very 1st scene is White Walker-centric, and to be fair that's often a typical device of saying what your story's about) I'd just like to offer up this thought for their consideration. Even though I wound up with misgivings myself about the specifics of how this was done, I do still want to give the series a certain credit for at least attempting something that's not really done too often in modern fiction. Not much I know of, anyway. And it's not that the WW are some tricky misdirect, but when you have this sprawling story obviously centering on politics for so long, arguments being made either side for it being still useful or arcane or not. Deeply flawed humanity shown off everywhere, we can't get our shit together. Then this (for lack of a better word) 'supernatural' massive force having been in the background, starts to become obvious it's coming soon and to erase your reality. The inevitable "a fucking throne will be irrelevant if we're literally all dead" rally, and most of that humanity indeed comes together knowing, yeah not like we're best friends now, but we've no choice to defend one as to defend all. It's PROBABLY NOT going to work, but fuck if we'll just give up. We're all painfully aware there's like 3% chance this'll actually work.
I appreciate that Game Of Thrones takes a look at what might happen when the 3%'s enough. What happens AFTER the point we actually succeed when NONE of us thought we would? The "alien" is gone. Just us humans again (albeit less). Will all of us have taken much from this experience to maybe do things different? We could, but surely won't. Certainly not all, anyway. We're ultimately a flawed species that'll never be able to get out of its own way for the longer term. Yeah characters here had relatively happy endings, more than I figured would (the 11 fans in the world who bet that Greyworm of all people would live out gotta be rich now), but there was still plenty of ugly to hash out and suffer from after the existential evil was smote.
Again (& thanks if anyone's been crazy enough to actually read this long) I like this concept - IN THEORY. But the show still took an unnecessarily painful, bumpy road to try that out.
37:00 why blame it on George? Nobody said D&D should finish it up so quickly
Imagine if they put Jon protecting Bran, we’d see that 1v1 between the NK and JS and put Theon in the crypts protecting Sansa, Tyrion and the rest of the people. Just imagine
I always felt Jaime should have died defending bran
You guys read the books ? It's doest sems like you dont
Best season for sansa ? Really?
Arya is Just Batman she beat everyone
Arya is wolverine and Lady Sandra is a Bolton
I swear to god.. this morning I said to my husband “you know, I think of Ned and Robb and Oberyn’s eyes and Tywin and Tyrion’s trial and Olenna and all those moments... then I think of season 8 and I’m shattered” And then I’m alerted to your new video!!! CRAZYYYYYY joy!!!!
Arya don’t deserve to kill the night king there’s no way. The whole build up to Jon snow vs the night king is so pointless.
Arya's whole development was fucked
Beau references "The Wrath of Kahn".
Goddamn I love you.
I love you guys but nooo please take into account that DND pretty much admitted at the Austin film festival that they didn't give a shit about the show anymore and it really really shows
I am so sorry for what they did to your arch Jamie Lannister.... Why God? WHY!
Melly Reed Fair enough! The route he took proved he was flawed and only human. I just am bothered by the fact he broke away from his sister basically willing to sacrifice himself fighting with the Starks helping what was his enemy knowing it was right and seemingly seeing Ceresi for what she was only to forget those same notions and forget feeling betrayed by her for Unc Greyjoy just to run back. It was portrayed poorly, felt nonsensical as if it was written to undermine everything that happened to him previously. I understand and see where you’re coming from and would have been fine with it had there been enough of it fleshed out to feel convincing and cohesive, that’s all.
In all fairness, Jamie's arch is the only one I don't take issue with. It's not the one we wanted, but it's still a very true arch. Regardless of if they purposely meant it that way or if it was an accident. Jamie is an addict. More often than not when dealing with addictions we see little bow wrapped up on the end and everything's perfect and fine. Very rarely do we show the truth. Relapses happen and very rarely do they need something extreme to cause a relapse. I'm saying this for my own personal place of dealing with narcotics addiction. The hardest time in my recovery was after dreaming about taking half a Norco. That's all it took. So, whether or not D&D meant it as an addiction arch, it's actually a very true, and often ignored part of addiction, and I have to appreciate it just for that.
Jaded Wonderland Thanks for your perspective and showing a different angle for this to viewed. I understand and agree but I still feel as though there was a lot lacking as far as his character in the final season went.
@@eddymonies8302 oh trust me, I actually really like Jamie. I appreciate complicated characters way more than "look at this good guy isn't he so good". I definitely wanted the good addiction arch, but I also have to appreciate the bad addiction arch LOL
@@eddymonies8302 and like I said, I'm not giving D&D any credit for it. I'm positive it was an accidental addiction arcs because they have proven that they can't purposely write anything well 😂😂😭😭😭😭
The long night was short af. 8 seasons of buildup and the white walkers are gonna in a second.
I’ve watch this series maybe 20/25 times.
I rewatched it constantly since 2011 between seasons to get some fresh memory. I haven’t rewatched it since it was finished. In 2019.
I tried 2 weeks ago, I absolutely love season 1, I couldn’t finish it because I was consistently remembering what happened in the end and it disgust me.
They didn’t just ruin the last season, they ruined the whole show.
Same. I can’t rewatch the good seasons because I end up comparing them to the bad ones and thinking about all of the ways it went wrong.
Same - it all just seems pointless when you know how it turns out.
I don't buy that Sansa is like Ned Stark. She's more Cersei and Littlefinger than Ned.
Hate sansa
Yep, Sansa is a big case of nurture vs nature for me, where nurture for sure won. Those influences sure got to her more than her father's.
Sansa is NOTHING like Ned. Jon is like Ned. That comment was stupid.
She was jealous of Jon put everything at risk due to that jealousy and then betrayed him.... Putting his life in danger.
What Leadership did she show? The Long Night she hid not even offering reassurance everything would be ok. Even her dialogue with Tyrion doesn't make sense as she knows he could have been some help up top for some time. Tyrion as she knew him would have let nobody die if he could do anything about it even entering the battle himself.
Even the dialogue with Sansa throughout the series makes you curious about how much she learned from anyone. She tells Jon simply don't do what Ramsay wants you to do.... Obviously. The emphasis should have been put on he likes to play games toy with people.
Show Sansa became Lysa and the only thing that stopped her form being killed by her stupid terrible decisions was plot armor. But hey "Sana's the smartest person I [Arya] knows" the funniest joke in the whole series.
Season 8 doesn't ruin the series as a whole for me but it does hurt it a bit. The whole white walkers and Jon Snow story suffers the most for me. I'll watch it one more time eventually but even after a year I'm still pissed off at how rushed the season is. Hopefully GRRM finishes the books.
It ruined it for me man. A lot of people say the journey is better than the destination, but for me the destination was shit house
I rewatched, thinking is it too soon? But no I'm finding not so much stuff I missed but perception and focus changes, I'm less bothered maybe even ok with the ending. I see things make sense more and parallels I didn't notice. It's the execution that fell off in the end. I never bought Dany was all good , to me I was fully not surprised at her ending. I did want more for the knights king story.. really really want more lol
Troy Taylor it’s like going on a great road trip but crashing into a tree at the end. You had the time of your life on the way there, but do you realy wanna do it al again and suffer that same crash?
Daenerys delivers the speech in Valyrian, so it doesn’t makes sense that the Dothraki are throwing their ass in a circle when she was talking
First half Dothraki, Second Valyrian. The two languages sound quite distinct if you're anything more than a cursory fan.
This is my favourite show of all time, but I can’t bring my self to watch a single episode and I forgotten about it
To your point about the butterfly effect, isn’t that one of the major problems with the show. They started changing things because of the TV show not a book and the repercussions just built and built and built
If sansa cared about her people she wouldn't have let thousands of northmen die during the battle of the bastards when she had the vale ready to go. She showed she didnt care about anyone
Sansa is a snake!!! She always wanted to be Queen
That was not her fault. She advised Jon not to attack, practically pleaded him, and Jon did. She went to the nights of the vale as a desperate last attempt and was lucky to convince them to come. Riding there and back is a long trip and the North was lucky that she made back when she did. Her lack of experience and arguably other qualities are overlooked because she’s the last Stark that could rule the North
@@IjzerKeizer Actually she told him "Don't do what Ramsay wants you to do" which is a dumb line. "She went to the nights of the vale" Um that was Baelish.
What qualities? The statement on the attack would it of not been wise to make a huge point to tell Jon that Ramsay likes to play games? Knowing this why did she not go down to tell him their Brother was bait and already dead?
Also yes it was her fault the part where she says they shouldn't attack is based on Allies and leaves out the fact the Vale would be very likely. She ends her protest and fails to give any real useful info.
Why? She likely did want Jon dead.
Thomas D no, she went to the Nights of the Vale and pleaded with Baelish. Baelish was already in the Vale. She also did tell Jon to hold his attack. I think youre making her more machiavellian than she is
@@IjzerKeizer she wouldn't have had to tell jon to hold his attack if she had just accepted Baelish's offer for the knights of the Vale in the first place and saved thousands of lives.
I REALLY miss the Night King's presence and aura of impending doom :(
*brushes the ashes of dead children off*
Arya: "I know a killer when I see one
*cue Sherlock music*
I know you should keep the books seperate from the show, but after reading through the books twice, the show is unwatchable in the later stages
I don’t know how anyone could dedicate 70 hours to rewatching a show that they know turns into junk when they could be spending that time reading the books.
Joshua Foley So what’s the point of the first 6 seasons then? Pointless setup to a lackluster ending.
The characters spend 6 seasons talking up the long night. I guess it literally lasted just one night.
Joshua Foley You keep telling yourself that.
It's because of the books that I can still enjoy seasons 1 thru 6. Since those early seasons were so faithful and just well made
@@Aquaneos1193 nah 5 through 6 spat on the books in favor of doing their own thing and 4 is partly to blame (though amazing and largely faithful) since they deliberately cut out a lot of things George wanted to include as hints to later plots. 1-4 is faithful book adaptation 5-8 is fan fic. Though I still greatly enjoy watching 5 and 6, they arent faithful at all and a good portion of things that happen in both wont be happening in the books because they dont make sense with where the story and characters are at.
Thanks for ripping this wound open again.
The thing that kills about Jaime is that he explicitly ruined his reputation forever for the people, and then he says a throwaway line about how he never cared about the people. It was D&D checking off boxes but not being able to get there properly.
And as you start to touch on. He was both Hand of the king and Master of Coin for Joffrey, he was Hand to Daenerys Stormborn. His capture sparked the War of the Five Kings. He killed the most powerful man in the seven kingdoms (Tywin), and he was accused of killing Joffrey. How do you leave him out of the histories?
"Give Jon the right of first refusal." I feel like him not being there at the council is for the best. If I had to hear him say, "Ah don wan tit." one more time....
It's sad that whenever I see or hear season 8 of game of thrones. I get this overcoming hatred. As a daenerys and Jon snow fan R. I. P
season 8 was a disappointment but getting filled with hate at the thought of a disappointing story over a year later might be something you wanna look into, for your own health
@@AlastorL5 I just choose to ignore it 😂 I'll get over it
I was a Stannis fan and I thought I had it bad after season 5. What a sweet summer child I was.
Duncan Land no she’s filled w hatred toward the series not like in general lol she don’t need help, it’s valid to hate a show
I have literally finished rewatching your revisited series and now you drop this on me. Today is a good day
Grrm does get a pass. It may be his story, but it’s not his show. In fact, they disregarded his material years ago. He has no obligation to help D&D with anything.
No one expected brilliant. We expected competent, and we didn’t even get that.
Their disrespect goes even back to season 1 where they started excluding essential plot elements like Jeyne Poole, which caused the whole Sansa rape plot in the first place. Little by little, they sacrificed complexity and coherency, but the consequences only became clear from season 5 onwards.
Ya he jumped ship in season 4 when he realized they weren't going to do a lot of things they were supposed to and were going to disregard every setup he tried to place (there are lots of notes on the lion and the rose script with having people around the wedding who would come into play later that they did nothing with). But he does share a little blame because it's like when he gave up on the show he also gave up on the books. Which is sad and a ramification of D&Ds treatment of his material but still it's been years and he isnt making any progress on the books.
Jordan Vance He may or may not get a pass for his book series, but the faults of the television show are on Dan and Dave.
They have shown that they possess little to no ability to write a compelling story of their own. Their abilities as screenwriters have been exposed.
I’ve always said that season 8 is “mired in CZcams”. You can watch a clip on CZcams of Daenerys’s speech and you have the same amount of context as if you watched it live, and that’s not how previous “big moments” in game of thrones have been
"The bells" is still awful. It was rushed and poorly written. HBO should give us an animated series, perhaps season 7, 8, 9 and 10 to wrap things up properly.
The Bells was where I gave up and admitted to myself that Thrones wasn’t working for me anymore.
In Sapochnik I trust. House of the Dragon will be epic, just hoping HBO starts at the conquest as they say with 300 years before our Thrones story.
The fact that they had more foreshadowing in the preshow monologue than the series in full was a serious problem.
Stefan Filipovits
Same. That is when it went from “highly flawed but still enjoyable and occasionally gripping” to “nonsensical farce”.
Shannon T i don’t trust him, he’s great with directing but character wise? after seeing what he said about Daenerys i’m not interested in him taking on a show about house targaryen. he sees them as 1 dimensional, im good
The finale episode played on TV the other night. I must say, the pain still stings. It's a sad, sad state of affairs.
The thing about the battle of the night king being so dark that bothered me was every other time we saw the night king it was bright af
I finally rewatch'd the entire series, and I stopped during the Long Night episode, couldn't do it anymore.