Challenging Prayer | Can You Change God's Mind?
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- They tell us "prayer works"...but is it true? Let's explore the idea that god answers prayer to see if it's even possible within the Christian worldview.
Please keep in mind that all everything I say here is my subjective opinion, and is intended to deconstruct fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative Christian ideologies from an ex christian perspective
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tags | Ex christian, deconstructing christianity, exvangelical, former fundie, leaving christianity, gospels, jesus, bible, god, christian, evangelism, apologist, atheist vs christian, agnostic, recovering from religion
If god answered prayers, everybody's grandmother would still be alive
And mine would have died 20 years earlier. Because for many years she asked: God, take me to yourself!
🤣🤣🤣
My grandmother was a devout catholic she prayed the rosary without fail 3x a day. She suffered a heart attack and was in the icu for a month. When she was transferred to a regular room she was soo weak and couldnt even move any part of her body. She passed after a week. On her death bed after she was declared dead for 3 mins she lifted her hands to heaven and left. Lesson is God knows his children and he provides and listens to everyones prayer. He also keeps his promises and delivers.
@@emmanuellorenzodiaz55
Sir, don't want to be rude but this is the internet. Everyone's stories need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Plus, there's already been recorded about this phenomenon since ancient times and no, they are not christian. What about, "The Lazarus sign or Lazarus reflex is a reflex movement in brain-dead or brainstem failure patients".
The little girl I knew from about 10 years ago wouldn't have suffered and died from childhood leukemia.
I read christians writing how they will "pray" for the victims of the last hurricane here in FL. I wrote back, "why didn't you pray for the hurricane to not come in the first place"!
Why don’t they pray to change the past? Their God isn’t bound by time, right?
You heathens... you will pay oon judgment day
@@TKR377I can't tell if you're joking 😂
@@AnimePokerTX The past cannot be changed.
What about the Maga pastor that “canceled” Hurricane Idalia and told it to stay away from land. Is he responsible for the damage cuz he used the wrong incantation or prayer beads?
When the church has a financial problem they take up an extra collection. When a parishioner has a financial problem they instead say to pray for them.
Best comment on this entire page.
Such a situation is an opportunity for the community of faith to join in helping the stricken member to raise the capital to help obtain the solution. I have witnessed my parish fund motorised wheelchairs, overseas operations for rare forms of cancer, etc. It is an example of the generosity of the congregation in action.
@@lancemarchetti8673Listen, this one is the bomb. But most of them that l red here, have me cracking up.
Sooooo true!!!
@@jameshogan6142how often? .. can you tell me how many times you bore witness to such event personally ?
My mother is very religious. She had an accident in a public transportation many years ago back in the 1960s. She told me that she prayed to god to survive, when she was being pulled out of the wreck in an ambulance, she saw the body of a young boy who laid dead next to his desperate mother who was crying in agony. She has always used that story to “prove” the power of her prayer….. and my thoughts since I’m an atheist have been: I’m glad my mother survived but why he didn’t hear the prayer of the mother who lost her child and cried in anguish?” I asked my mother that question and she justified god by saying, “Well, only god knows if that boy was going to be evil as a grown man and decided to take him while he was young an innocent” 🙄
No matter the monstrosity of god’s acts, the faithful will find a way to justify him.
That's awful!
Geez, how a indoctrinated ones come up with such an excuse. But I was one of um while indoctrinated, am lucky can think critically now.
Using that logic, why didn't God kill Hitler as a boy?
I wonder if that explanation would’ve been comforting to that grieving mother. Unbelievable.
Exactly! Or any number of other horrible people that became serial killers, spouse abusers, etc. @@FluffyChikki
When I was a Christian I was aghast at the prayers I heard at church. They sounded like a kid's list to Santa. I considered it more that you were aligning yourself with god and his will, not putting quarters in some divine vending machine as in "Hey, you work for me". And then I learned the truth. That prayer is talking to the ceiling.
On the one hand, it makes sense that an Onnibenevolent God would care about the small things His children do.
But on the other hand Christians are supposed to not care at all about this life and be focused on the next life. They're not even supposed to want luxuries or anything more than the bare minimum to survive and give the rest to charity.
But the prosperity gospel is fine to exclude that part of the Bible while keeping certain bigotry, and adding in unbiblical things like church tithing.
It seems many of those prayers got through the ceiling and were answered.
@@Justas399 And so many others weren’t.
@@cedarwaxwing3509 yes. Because the prayers were not according to the will of God.
Superbly put. 👌
Prayer works until it doesn't (very often) and then they blame the person who prayed for not having enough faith.
Or they accuse folks of not understanding God’s master plan.
They also say it's God's will
the one that always gets me is when a church burns or church bus crashes, there are always survivors who thank god for their survival and not once realize that they are claiming they are better than all the poor bastards that died. Their egos must be as large as the universe or they are dumb as rocks. Love your videos.
Or when a Bible survives and they say, “Look at God’s glory!” While ignoring that someone died or is suffering in the hospital. 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Or I often read online when someone passes to pray for the families, as if that’ll do anything. Better to just send your condolences if you know them.
Or when they speak in voices full of awe as they describe the only building left standing in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki ... was a Church ....
@@whitemountainapache3297or when they marvel that the crucifix survived a church fire, completely ignorant to the fact that the crucifix was made of _metal._ All because they decided the answer was "magic" and stopped examining things closer. 😐
Great observation!
I prayed for my depression, anxiety, and c ptsd to stop. After a while I left islam, and it stopped😅 my dua was answered
And according to Christians, God answers the prayers you need, not what you want. So apparently, to God, you didn't need m healthy mental health apparently. An awful god
Amen. Leaving religion makes life better.
@@timelston4260Much better 👍
@@timelston4260facts I feel so free now
"They don't recognize that it's privilege, they mistake it for blessings"
Wowwww... this explains some ppl i used to work with at a Christian bookstore. They really got under my skin and i could never quite put my finger on why. Of course, as a Christian, i just felt guilty about getting frustrated and angry when things just seemed to work for them but not for me. But no. It's this. It's totally this.
That really... that was really helpful. Thank you. ❤️
15:31
@@irrelevant_noob thanks! I forgot to put the time stamp
Sorry, is being employed in a bookstore a privilege? I don't get your point.
@jesussaves8386 no, it's was just a reference to how I knew them. They were folks I worked with.
I relate to this really well. Even when I was a Christian, I had trouble grasping the whole concept of prayer. It always felt silly and pointless to me.
When prayer didn't work, I would always hear "God works in mysterious ways" or that the result is "just part of God's plan."
But then that leads to the question "What is God's plan?"
The response was always something like "It's too great for our tiny, inferior human brains to comprehend", which is just dodging the question.
Exactly. The problem with saying it's God's plan implies that the person saying that knows what God's plan is. If they then say that they don't know what God's plan is, that they CAN'T know what God's plan is, then they cannot possibly know if something was in God's plan or not unless they're a hardcore Calvinist ultra-determinist, and that comes with its own significant baggage (like God basically being morally accountable for everything because he wanted it that way). It's like asking whether you should pray to heal your illness and then go to a doctor or pray and not go to a doctor: Was it God's plan that the doctor would heal you of your illness? Maybe God didn't think you needed a miracle if a physician could address the problem and you're disobeying him by not seeking qualified medical advice. Since we can't know whether any given action or inaction is "part of God's plan," we're just going to do the thing we wanted to do in the first place.
You also have to wonder why this supposed God's so secretive about his plan, to the point where he created us with brains incapable of comprehending it. What would happen if we became more than pawns in his game of chess? It's as suspicious as a dictator who imposes censorship to suppress even a whiff of criticism.
If what you prayed for comes true then "Prayer works", but if what you prayed for doesn't happen then "It wasn't God's will". As you said, it's just dodging the question.
Praying does work but it’s speaking with authority in Jesus’s name and you have to address it against the authority of darkness. All things r wrought in the spirit and you have to recognise behind ever malody there is a spirit of authority that needs to be undone.
@@user-po4jl4yi1pInteresting way to say you're very unwell upstairs.
It's scary to think that a lot of people completely abandoned medical care in hopes that a miracle would save them only for one to not.
....and those same "Christians" want to deny others of medical care simply because those people are unfortunate!
Look for my LONG post in the root comments.
St Pio a Franciscan friar who had many miraculous cures attributed to his intercession would regularly advise people who asked for his prayers to have an operation if that was what their doctors indicated.
@@jameshogan6142 God can only work miracles on hypochondriacs.
@@jameshogan6142good for him
Everyone should be told to pray, it is the quickest way to discover the truth, that it does not work.
Jesus says in Matthew 21:22 (NRSVUE) "Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive.” So why do we still have malaria, covid, influenza, cancer, yellow fever, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc? Why don't sincere Christians just pray for them to go away?
Because nobody wants to "pray for and receive" cancer.
This is worded more like a wish list, which is why _sincere_ Christians get Hot Wheels cars, or that Lego set, for Christmas.
(Edit: That Barbie doll I got for my birthday that one time, that was from Satan.)
Interesting that Satan is an anagram for Santa : )@@christasimon9716
why so few people realise that having their prayers not answered means their faith is not real and their afterlife in in jeopardy?
also... believing in a god creator also implies that you actually believe that the conscious designer of cholera is actually having plans for your afterlife... such a designer I think would have more than one hell and no heaven, or eternity in his presence would be a special kind of hell?
@@christasimon9716 prayer and coveting, very important to keep 'm apart, before you know it you're express mailing your sins
Death entered the world through sin and as long as sin endures disease and death will prevail.
This is exactly what started my deconversion. It literally started when I would pray to ask god for something simple, and it would "happen". But then I'd think, "but why didn't god answer that other person's prayer? Why does god only answer my prayers about such stupid and small things? Why didn't god help the people who are begging for something to eat, a place to live, or not to have violence committed against them, but yet can answer my prayer?"
It felt really, really icky.
I gained some empathy for others, and the entire belief system just fell apart.
Your empathy outgrew your faith 🫶❤️
@@simonvh7836 "The reason why like a third of the world has no food and water is because they're not Christian"
Are you fucking kidding me? And did you even watch the video?
That's an absolutely disgusting way to think. I am honestly disgusted at your lack of empathy. Beliefs like that are the reason the world has and is going to shit.
That thought process is disgusting, and so is your "god".
I hope you learn to become a better, more empathetic human being.
@@bigbendegen2174 even when I was a Christian, I'm very confident that I wasn't as insufferable or lacked empathy as much as your statement does.
But I'm appalled that when I was a Christian, I would've been associated with people who think like you. Ew.
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Don't approach your faith the way this woman Kristi has, if we believe God has a plan for mankind then he answers prayers in ways that fulfils his plans, not ours. Our will is not God's will, so don't get lost in the same demonic quest as she has.
From her own description of her faith, it seems possible it clearly affected her state of mind and she in-turn turned in hatred towards Christianity instead of facing her real demons, so she continues attempts at ridiculing the faith in her vids.
She informs those that visits her site that it is important for them to find their own truth (i.e. travel their own paths), yet she is not honest with this claim since she is clearly opinionated in her negative views of Christianity (based on her own past).
It does no seem she has addressed her past issues and it remains with her and has manifested as demonic forces within her (note, not all demonic influences are like the Exorcist movie). That is what makes her blaspheme God in every vid she makes...if this is not demonic then what is?. None of the vid's she makes about the faith is supported by Scripture and she does not even try to be unbiased, because her demons won't allow her to.
In some vid she claims she was a "Christian" into her early adult life, claiming not to have found fulfilment in the faith (clearly her problem, so don't make it yours), then claimed she has been looking for the truth for 13 years (which she has clearly not found yet, and she possibly never will) because she is tormented by her past and not prepared to reconciled herself to those issues.
She claims she is still looking for the "truth", yet offers advice as if she has found these truths and it is truly amazing the support she has for this rubbish advice even though she never presents any positive, planned solutions...it just shows the world we live in today...everyone is ready to bash God for their failures in life as if God forces anyone to do his bidding...
God is love, in his love he has given us a choice to follow him or not, these are our own decisions...since God forces no one. Yet it is clear in your comment you are dictating what choices God should make, you expect choices in your own life yet demand that God do what you perceive are the correct things he should be doing, imposing on God who's prayers he should be answering.
Don't fall into the same "hole" this woman has fallen into...she is being consumed by demons from the inside, listen to her closely and you will hear this...yeah, demons are real and they are constantly ridiculing God (through humans) for their fallen state...yet like us they were given choices and they failed. There is no hope for fallen angels but there is hope for those humans still living...so make the right choice while you still have time.
I have been an ex-vangelical for almost 10 years,learning from Sam Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens, Sagan etc. Kristi Burke makes things so simple and easy to understand , and these videos are the best. Thank you for the way you communicate to others!
That's quite a good list 👍
@@frozentspark2105 I agree, Kristi is succinct and clear and (I assume, as it's not my background) can speak authoritatively on the Fundamentalist view.
That being said, I miss Hitchens. I wish Harris and Dawkins would quietly fade from public view now, though. Only Dennett, of the original Four Horsemen, is still a good spokesperson for Atheism.
@@Alan_Duval Hitch was awesome. Dawkins is getting old and Sam seems to be going political. Have not heard of the last, going to have to look though 👍
@@frozentspark2105 let us be careful about idolizing those not around to make mistakes. Dawkins and sam are still making the general case for what Hitch more or less thought anyhow.
Christie is excellent and extremely helpful and we owe her a debt of gratitude...however we still need to examine the fundamental truth of the existence of anything... existence does not necessarily need to be "created" from nothing , being-ness may be transcendent and beyond the abilities or our minds to comprehend however we should strive to evolve our consciousness
One of my favorite “Friendly Neighborhood Atheist” songs by Dan Barker says “How many centuries will it take us, before we realize, There are no magic forces in nature, no watchful eyes in the skies? A single plow is much more effective than a hundred prayers a day, The hands that help are better far, than lips that pray. Nothing fails like prayer….use your mind, and you will find, that nothing fails like prayer” BTW - I’ve gotten many hours of enjoyment listening to his songs, since I came out of Amish Christian fundamentalism and highly recommend his CD set by the above title. Well worth the price. It’ll have you humming if not singing his catchy tunes and lyrics and help to drive out those old and nonsensical gospel songs drilled into our brains since childhood.
You were Amish? That's some old school hard core brainwashing. I was just a Catholic; fairly easy to recover from in comparison.
I’ll definitely check out this cd, thanks for suggestion! I love Tim Minchen, you gotta check him out if you haven’t already😊
@@danmurray1143 Yeah, I was raised Pentecostal, but was radicalized into the Mennonites and Amish/Mennonites in my teenage years. Married into the cult, had a big family, moved into the Old Order Amish and around age 50, astonishingly, I deconverted. I was trying to help an atheist friend to salvation in Christ when I began to realize my theology was not based in reality. It’s been a wild journey!
@@TBlack-dz5bo If you get the CD set, it comes with a paper booklet of all the lyrics to the songs he wrote and sings. Super handy to sing along and memorize them. Much better than those old gospel hymns in my brain! And yeah, Tim Minchen - I love his songs!
"When I was back there, in seminary school, there was a person, who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer. Petition the Lord with prayer. Petition the Lord with prayer. YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!" That was Jim Morrison, of the "Doors," beginning the song, I believe, "Break on Through to the Other Side."
One of the most common prayers is also the most disturbing, at least to me: "Lord, bless this meal." Meanwhile, their god let's innocent children starve and die, but they believe God will bless their feast? That is grossly immoral, and as you pointed out so well, a perfect description of privilege.
Blame God cause you are perfect. But how many staving children have you fed.
Since I was 15 years old, I have had a horrific medical condition that frequently caused me to go unconscious (sometimes for days at a time) because the pain was too great for my brain to handle. When that happened, I had a "blank" spot in my experience of time. I would "come to". I would usually remember the excruciating pain and circumstances before I went unconscious. I would ask the first person I saw where I was, how long I had been there, and how did I get there? And then, I would sometimes need a couple of days to fully recover. There was absolutely NOTHING inbetween. I have woken up with oxygen masks, heart monitors, catheters, stomach tubes, people doing CPR on me, IV's in my ankle cause the veins in my arm kept collapsing, etc. Not once did the God of the Bible show itself to me when I repeatedly begged it to help me. Nor did I ever see any sign that there was a heaven or hell. That doesn't mean there isn't one, but I have no reason to believe there is from my experience. If that God is playing hide and seek with me, how can it expect me to know it is there and punish me if I don't? What kind of god can watch me writhing in pain like that and do NOTHING to stop it over and over again?!? So many of my friends and family members said they were praying for me and nothing got better for YEARS! It finally got better when I went into menopause.
@elaine
offhand I'm guessing that this condition is somehow related to your reproductive or hormone system. why it apparently has NOT BEEN TREATED, makes me wonder more about HUMANS than GOD especially.
I assume you have more to say.
but on the theological level , Bart Ehrman essentially became an ex-er-agnostic-skeptic after being raised and extensively studying christian ideology for the self same reason you now doubt it: to him the entire prospect of pointless suffering had been left completely unexplained if you presume "god" to be omniscient and benevolent.
I agree with him and with you, that the abundant evidence of such suffering in this world, is directly contradictory to any apologist notion of why god would permit it.
I have heard the excuse that "well, we just cannot understand god's plan" or something to that effect.
But if "god made humans" and our minds are somehow too feeble to grasp the answers to rather obvious questions that we seem perfectly able TO ASK, I have to lay that issue at the feet of that same god who designed us to be that defective in the first place.
How can a "perfect" creator produce such imperfect creations.
And hear you are giving your testimony. I would have not known about your condition if you didn't tell me. Thank you. ❤
Read the book of job you'll find the answer.
If you want a quick summary the bible project did a video on the book of job.
@@tjtjmich16p
all the book of job seems to establish is that yhwh and satan play gambling games against on another. evidently yhwh does not win all the time.
for example look at church political leaders and tell me what motivates them.
@@tjtjmich16p
a video does not make a fantasy suddenly any more credible.
meanwhile if "god is just" what happened to that first family that "Job" had?
I don't recall the story claiming that any of them did anything wrong, but god-the gambler trashed them anyway.
I don’t think that prayer helps anyone to get anything. You have to decide what you want and work towards getting it. Simple!
I'm gay and was told for decades that I should pray to turn straight, and when that didn't work they said I wasn't praying hard enough. Looking back, the emotional and psychological abuse from the church makes me hate religion. I'm so glad I finally saw the light and became an atheist.
So sorry for what you went through
My favorite online meme says "You don't see faith healers working in hospitals for the same reason you don't see psychics winning lotteries. " 😂
Oh yeah, because psychics are frauds, so …
10 yr old me: Mom, I prayed for a video game and never got it. God didn't answer my prayer.
Mom: God did answer. Not getting the video game was his way of saying "no."
Me: Ok, so, when a starving kid living in a war torn country prays for food & peace, but doesn't get it, is God saying "no?" I thought God loved his children.
Mom: 😳
Not children living in war torn areas cuz they are probably from a pagan religion…. Sarcasm..
Jesus said that god took care of the sparrows. I guess he likes the birds better than us.
Darkmatter 2525 Add a brilliant suggestion for all those starving children in africa, Don't pray for food, Pray to win the american super bowl.
Mom: God did answer. Not getting the video game was his way of saying "no."
Me: Or it could just be your way of saying you're cheap.
*grounded for a week... but worth it.
Hi, David! Found your comment super interesting! Did you really say that to your mom when you were 10? What a brilliant 10 yo! Is/was your mom a Christian? If my son were to tell me that I would say: "Well, son, I know it's hard to understand, but God promised He would wipe all tears away and that there'll be no more hunger --- those tears and hunger are provoked by wicked people in high places who gain a lot of power and money from wars. It's these people who decide every day to create this kind of world where there is abuse to the innocent. God it's only bearing with them and their actions, but not for too long, and He also promised He would pay them back. Besides, if you care so much for children suffering in wars, you should pray for them and ask God for them to have peace instead of asking him for a video game. May be, if you would do that, God would have given you the video game for showing the beauty of your heart to Him by showing concern for other's wellbeing and not yours".
You are absolutely the most amazing atheist on CZcams hands down. BECAUSE, you break it down and make it so easy to understand. Thank you SO MUCH !
Ik your a fan... but nah Kristi takes things out a context. Prayer is asking God for something. If I pray a prayer, asking God to kill someone you think he'll grant that prayer. God doesn't have to answer our prayers. You can pray a prayer from 16 years old and God could answer that prayer when your 58. He knows what's best... beside If I ask kristi questions I guarantee she won't be able to answer any of them.
Totally agree with you.
@@demonsnow1413so if I ask God to save me from my abuser he let that happen because "he knows best" hes still loving .....ok I totally get it now
@@just_eboni He would save you by giving you the sense to get away from the abuser.
You are sick, what if its a person, maybe a child, in the middle of nowhere, maybe in the winter. What if they are as brainwhashed by their abused as you are by your cult .
Why would God even let a violent rape happen once, even if the person could get away? If that happened to you as a child, or a teenager by a grown man or maybe a group of men, would you be OK with it? Even if you got away, if you even could.
Everyone needs to read these sick comments to see where religion can take people. @@garystapp1656
Spend forty+ years begging God to show me a shred of His existance, realize prayers are really just talking to myself, feel profound relief at recognizing Ive just woken up from a sleep that was forced upon me as a child. So grateful to be an apostate.
Hey, I am currently an apostate because I chose the commit the “unforgivable sin” it’s kinda my fault in fact it is my fault I should’ve chose my chose wisely but I don’t feel controlled anymore not that the lord was controlling me but religion. Let me to tell you something love God if you have the heart to love him with all your heart don’t attack him he’s soo awesome am I against the people who speak these things to put up these barriers of stress but they mean no harm ❤ let’s just take the time to love and respect them 😊
You can see the circumstantial evidences and not direct evidences. DNA, Fine-tune universe, morality.
@@ianbuick8946 if DNA is evidence of God, it's also evidence for aliens and for multiple Gods and for any other creative force we want to assign. The things you listed do not prove God, and do not prove His existence. I can have moral standards without an invented moral authority.
As you know it’s currently Thursday as of now. I’m 13 and my entire family are all hardcore Christians, I’m talking they live in it day and night, night and day, breathing it, eating it, sleeping it 24-7. But recently I’ve had a lot of questions and done a lot of thinking and research about it. I have seen both atheist and Christian viewpoints. Just to make sure I’m getting both sides and then I’ve also used a bit of logic that completely gives a high chance of God not existing. I also started to find things like rape, slavery, beating of slaves, killing and slaughter of millions of children and babies. God killed more than 500 people on the estimate, and then satan only killed 10 which were of fact all approved by God. But as of now, I’m an agnostic atheist in secret from my family. None of my family knows anything about my agnosticism. We still pray together, say grace and do Bible study. So for all they know I’m still a Christian, I’ve also searched on Reddit for anyone going through the same situation I’m going through right now. And to my surprise, I found lots and lots of people who were Christians and then came out as atheists to their parents. So I found comfort in that, but I found lots of people saying that before you come out as agnostic or atheist to your parents. You should become financially independent living in your own home and paying for your meal. But because I’m 13, that would be a long time before that happens. Meaning that I would have to play along and lie to my family for about 7 to 8 years, about being a Christian and having love for the Lord. Before I came out as an agnostic atheist. I said fuck no because I feel like 1. It feels undoubtedly wrong to lie to your family for years and years just because of what they might think about you. 2. I feel uncomfortable playing along in prays and bible study and having to deal with all that, while lying to myself and my family. 3. I should not be scared of what they might think of me just because they can’t deal with it. And finally, it would feel way more comfortable and free if I got it off my chest. And so with all that in mind, I have decided that I am going to come out as an agnostic atheist to my parents this Saturday, or even tomorrow if I feel confident enough. But I want to ask everyone who sees this comment if I should come out as an agnostic atheist to my parents tomorrow or this Saturday. And if so do you have any tips????❤️❤️💕
never take the cowards way. Be true to yourself. Your logic will beat their dogma.
@@narcissistinjurygiver2932 Thank so much words cannot describe how much I appreciate this. But should I come out as an agnostic atheist to my entire family tomorrow or Saturday??? Because I’ve definitely decided it’s going to be one of the two.
Good luck. I've been an agnostic atheist for 15 years now and still haven't told my family, at some point I just decided that for me it's something I'm willing to live with. For me it doesn't really affect my life that much, and I don't mind being around it on occasion. My family thinks I believe in Jesus but it should be obvious to them that I don't really prioritize my Christian faith much and am not exactly "on fire for god", so it has kind of settled to a point where I'm not typically asked to pray or do stuff that I dont want to do, because I'm not comfortable praying in public, or the church worship doesnt really speak to me or I'm not a fan of this pastor's style,..etc. It felt much worse though when I was still living with my parents, so I can definitely relate to that feeling where the idea of faking it and living a lie can really weigh on you greatly. My advice is, listen to your gut and do what you feel is right. And no matter what happens, always love and respect your parents.
Tomorrow or Saturday? What is the rush?
What exactly do you want to accomplish by coming out as agnostic atheist? There is no deadline here other than your own. Take your time to be sure.
Maybe express doubts and ask tough questions to test their reaction first. That is still being honest and true to yourself. It may help them process things better.
13 is a vulnerable age to handle a strong negative reaction from your parents.
Before anyone gives advice, we should ask for more information first, because it’s *not* necessarily the “coward’s way” to stay in the closet as an agnostic or atheist. Sometimes it’s the smart thing to do. With that in mind:
1) what kind of relationship do you have with your parents? Are they loving & supportive? Are they strict and quick to punish?
2) if the worst were to happen and your parents disowned you & kicked you out, do you have a safe place to go? Because that has happened to people, and at 13yo, that can be devastating on so many levels. If you don’t have a safe place in case of emergency, DON’T DO IT YET.
If you don’t k ow how your parents will react, start with small questions and see what they say. Mention that you heard something about how none of the Gospels actually say who wrote them, and that you’re puzzled. Or that you read that the earliest fragment of the Gospels we have is from 120-150 years after Jesus died, and if that’s true, how can you know if it’s real? And then see how they respond.
If they immediately get angry and tell you to stop asking those questions, because that’s a sign that Satan is corrupting you, then coming out as even just agnostic could be really bad. But if they’re ok with you asking questions, then keep going.
Personally, I think making a big declaration is a bad idea unless your family will love and accept you no matter what. From your description of them, that seems questionable. Take it slow, get them used to you asking questions and being curious. But above all - be safe! Right now, staying hidden as an unbeliever for 7-8 years might seem like an eternity, because it’s literally half of your life already. But 7-8 years will fly by faster than you can imagine.
There’s an amazing online community of agnostics/atheists to support you and others coming out of faith, even if you have to keep it secret from family & friends for a while.
"I prayed to God for a new bike. Then I remembered that's not how prayer works.
So I stole a bike and then asked for forgiveness"
-a joke I don't remember the source.
Emo Philips, I believe.
Nothing fails like prayer!
Nothing fails like prayer. ALL research into prayer has shown it has no effect on any situation.
That's not entirely correct. There are studies that show that prayer has an effect in some instances. For example when a christian falls seriously ill and all their family members pray for them, their chances of survival can drop because of the added stress of knowing that other people are constantly worried about you.
Of course this is not a direct outcome of the prayer itself. But the theatratics around it make it more visible to the sick person.
the situation you cite is the very best example of how prayer fails. Look it up.@@Finckelstein
@@user-wq2gs8eu7l "God is good"
Except when he's pro slavery. Or pro genocide. Or pro sexual slavery. Or pro xenophobia. Or pro murder. Or jealous and petty.
Your god as described by the bible is a monster.
And yes, we 100% know that prayer doesn't work. Your self-delusion won't change that.
@@user-wq2gs8eu7l Easy Ken Copeland.
@@user-wq2gs8eu7lif god is good, then why would he leave a person forever?
"Crying won't help ya, praying won't do you no good" -- Led Zeppelin, When the Levee Breaks
Lmao thanks I listen to that song all the time and never managed to understand what he was singing in that line
@@juliee593 oh hey, glad I could help! Good taste
The worst for me is when they say that the answer was no because something better was planned. Like "I didn't get the job because a better job was waiting." And sure, that works for something like a job, but not lives, mass destruction, physical harms, etc.
Christian prayer is really just a form of meditation and self-help. When you ask God for things, you are actively thinking about your life priorities and the needs of others, sometimes you are expressing your deep emotions, and you are actively thinking about having an attitude of gratitude, which is good for your mental health and for your life in general. Prayer works as a self-help tool, but what Christians don't realize is that it's just as effective if you take out the "relationship" with the make-believe invisible friend
xtian "prayer" sounds awfully self-centered & self-seeking . . . . .
"Christian prayer is really just a form of meditation and self-help."
The problem is when politicians do it.
Prayer for most people, is petitioning a sentient supernatural being to intercede in natural affairs and arrange hopes and wishes to be satisfied. It is also partly devotional, submissive and a means to show gratitude to the god.
Meditation is a method of entering a state of mind to achieve tranquillity, focus or other self-directed psychological benefits. It doesn't rely on telepathic communication with a supernatural being or petionary hopes and wishes. No intercessory agency or action is invoked ot required to intervene in human events. So I couldn't disagree more. Saying prayer is a form of mediation, is like saying a the time travelling Deloraine from Back To The Future, is a kind of horse.
@@skepticusmaximus184imo, none of what you said negates anything I said. It is that also.
@@Requinix17 Except that EVERYTHING I said negates the idea, that prayer is a form of meditation. Just as riding a horse, doesn't necessitate travelling through time, meditation doesn't necessitate communicating with a supernatural being. Meditation is directed INWARD. Prayer is projected OUTWARDS. Prayer is predicated on supernatural assumptions. Meditation is not. Prayer is petionary. Meditation is not. Prayer is intercessory. Meditation is not. They have NOTHING to do with each other and just saying'Nuh uh''isn't an intellectually satisfying response.
Kristi has one of the best deconstructing channels on CZcams
Thank you so much :)
Yes she is!
@@jezebelvibesYou're welcome and I truly mean it. Much love from a super religious third world country in Africa 😊
100% agreement.
@@christophergibson7155 omg you're right, i will repent from being bisexual and atheist right now thanks for leaving this comment you have changed my life ma'am
I had a friend who died from a rare disease on his 18th birthday despite all of the hard work from the doctors. The prayers are useless. I was still a Christian at the time and that was a huge faith shaker.
people die all the time from disease, cancer, illnesses, you name it, all the time .Its a fallen world of death disease and decay. That is why it is so important to have that relationship with Jesus, because you never know when you are going to die. Eventually this world will be no more, as soon as Jesus comes back, and it could be anytime, so its so important to be ready. One day, there will be no more suffering, disease, or pain. Dont give up, have faith. Read his word, and ask him to speak to you and teach you. His Holy Spirit will come to live inside you and will teach you, guide you, and direct you to all understanding. Open your heart and invite him back in. Lean on him again and trust in him. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Im praying for you.
If god's real, he's a space parasite that feeds on misery, violence, death and suffering.
@@Outsider4JC
Well we pray bcoz we want what we pray for (to God) [seems 95% want a quick yes - n thereby we make prayer n God like a "wishing well"
In reality we should understand there's always 3 answers from God that my sunday school teacher taught us (a good practical lesson for those who believe in prayer)
1_God grants us ie. yes
2_no
3_wait
@@prof_xhew2929 So prayer is either redundant or futile. Got it.
@carlisroy6666 If u say prayer is redundant - u said it; Cause I didn't say "prayer is redundant"
My good friend and I are both ex-Christian’s. A couple weeks ago he had gone through a hard time and I was offering some encouraging words. I caught myself and asked him “do you ever find yourself instinctively going to tell people you’ll pray for them, even though you haven’t prayed in years?”
I still feel that it is a sincere form of giving affection. I wish prayer did work, I’d pray all day.
I love this, if prayer wasn't this appealing then it wasn't worth it...
Ex-christian??? You never experience Jesus' love at all. Repent, come to your first love Jesus Christ, so to experience his love and compassion - Matt 11:28 "... He will give you rest"
@@mikefemiemmanuel9061Love me or suffer the consequences is not a healthy relationship for anyone. The arrogance coming from the followers of ancient Roman end-time superstition is one of obviously immoral things about them.
@@mikefemiemmanuel9061I think you are the ones that are going to burn in hell if there is such a thing as hell
I'm tired of Christianity
Deconstructing for Christianity is the best thing anyone can do
Now you are thinking I'm a lost soul,but I promise I love Jesus and I have a relationship with him and I would never talk like that to anyone
But people like you that have absolutely no compassion and all you do is judge in the name of Jesus I might because you bear a false message
I still pray on a regular basis. It's just now days It's things like "God, please, if you have the neighbor drop dead by morning I promise to start going to church again."
Praying works about as well as Wishing on a Star which means it doesn't work at all.
There is good evidence that prayer leads to better health outcomes.
@@TheMilitantMazdakite well for my prospective prayer does not work everything I've ever gotten my life I got off my behind and got it myself. And I needed no deity or invisible sky wizard to get what I needed.
@@TheMilitantMazdakite actually that is false.. the statics prove exactly opposite.. praying for good health ,are you kidding??,, Many people have died from illness's that could have been healed by a doctor but instead say prayers.. haha
@@desireedebellis6766 No, the study found that all else being equal, prayer does lead to more positive outcomes, on average.
When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are, when you wish upon a star your dreams come true. (a little cricket told me)
Praying works depending on the amount of your donation to the church. If your donation is generous, your pastor can get from a brand new car to a private aiplane. 😊
Right, it's more about making your pastor's dreams come true.
@@DocReasonableAbout whose church are you talking??
Jesus condemned preaching for money,and if somebody is doing that, they're atheist trying to make money who disrespect religion.
And you wonder why your kids got diseases that cannot be healed,and your wife dead after her first delivery.
That's the whole idea. Making multimillionaire pastors richer and richer.
Take that money and help the poor and the downtrodden, then see if your prayers work. They worked for the poor and downtrodden.
Religious organisations prefer to build Noah's Ark theme parks than giving money to the poor. @@visaman
Prayer makes people feel better. Sometimes it seems to work so they keep doing it.
A very nice and simple way to put it 😊
@@jezebelvibesi grew up from a place called nagaland,where majority are Christians,and there's a church in my village,where people would be gather to pray for around 2 hours,with a list of things to pray for.They even use to pray for every young people around the world who are studying,and every human that are suffering.And that's where i first felt the presence of God.
It was a small church with around 100 peoples,and when i was 12 i was a service, doing prayers that's when i first saw someone prophesying in a unknown tongue. And most of the prophecy are true, I've seen evil spirit possessions and i believe that there's a God and prayers works.
It could be delusion though.
@@jianth works how? Did you publish any double-blind studies that show a statistical correlation between anything about it? Or is it just that it makes you feel special, and that's enough for you?
@@irrelevant_noob I started drinking and smoking at 13.Ive been a heavy smoker and drinker for 8 years, I'm still alive because I have a mother and a father that's praying for me.
If you're praying to test God.
You need to learn more about Christ.
In Catholic nations like mine, people don't pray to God for jobs, or wealth, or football games. They pray to angels and saints, who advocate for you in God's presence. God just does not have the time or patience enough to take your case directly. And if you pray to the wrong saint, you get nothing. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, but he just does not know how to do his job without bureaucracy.
I love that you mentioned bragging about being “blessed” when it’s really just living a privileged life! It was so hurtful and confusing to be living below the poverty line and to be struggling with physical and mental health problems. Then for our church to kind of cater to the wealthy members and ignore the poor, needy members. That’s about when I started to deconstruct. Then, several months later I deconverted!
That's really disturbing that your church played favorites with the richer people. That's something that we Christians really need to work on. "Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?" James 2:5 (NIV). Since you now believe that God doesn't exist, it makes sense you wouldn't want to be part of any church, but it still makes me sad to hear how you were treated at your church.
What does Bible have to say about "blessed"
Blessed are the *poor in spirit* , for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who *mourn* , for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the *meek* , for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who *hunger and thirst for righteousness* , for they will be filled.
Blessed are the *merciful* , for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the *pure in heart* , for they will see God.
Blessed are the *peacemakers* , for they will be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are *persecuted because of righteousness* , for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
So: when are they comforted?
Before - or after, they die?
Also, Jews got persecuted... by many, who thought themselves righteous.
In Christendom. And their targets, thought themselves, righteousness too.
Jehovah... in His 'righteousness' did next... to nothing... about this.
Or the pretty prolonged Western slave trade.
Apparently the perpetrator's free will must outweigh the victims.
Especially when they had... less... actual, legal, or literal, protection?
And being meek often didn't help either. Close to being a door-matt.@@ianbuick8946
Here in Texas, people say they’re praying for me, and “Bless your Heart”. It’s so condescending and insulting knowing that religion poisons everything (as Christofer Hitchens famously said). I just say “thank you” because they don’t really want to think or talk, they just want someone to hate.
Isn’t “bless your heart” a mild insult?
@@pansepot1490 Yeah, like what is so wrong with my heart that it needs to be blessed?
"Bless Your Heart" is just the christian way of saying "Go Fuck Yourself."
@@pansepot1490 mild insult? Yes. Especially when they say sooo sweetly. It cuts like a knife.
I think they are mainly trying to express empathy and that is the way they know how to do that especially if there is no way they can physically help you.
I wonder why the penticostal faith healers don't go to children's cancer wards in the hospitals and pray for the children to be healed....? We know the answer don't we...😅
"god works in mysterious ways" or something
@@JustADudeGamer
Exactly ...it's not in the scammers rule book needs to be gullible old ladies and large congregations to put $ in the offering....
If prayers really work above everything else, isn't it ironic that about 20% of hospitals in US are religiously affiliated?
And why these false prophets not pray to end gun violence in US? There are 210 million Christians in US (63% of population) and people are being killed like flies each day. But "thou shalt not kill." Christianity is a death cult -- crusades, Inquisition, European religious wars, slavery, world wars etc.
Nothing like common sense. Where did you get such an abundance of it? I love your vids.
"Le sens commun n'est pas si commun.' - Voltaire
Common sense is not so common.
Common sense, where, no relihius person ever jad common sense
Here's something I learned in group therapy. Trust your intuition. Exercise your intuition to make it more trustworthy.
God sure didn't do anything for my childhood asthma attacks. I prayed or the attacks to go away and it stayed anyway. It kept happening and to this day at age 76 the medicines are enough to treat most symptoms. Science is who I thank for that.
When I was a Christian and messaging a non-Christian friend who was going through a rough time, if there wasn't anything I could do, besides the general "hope you're ok", "let me know if there's anything I can do" I'd just say "I'm thinking of you".
Because it seems rude when you don't know if they share your faith to seem to be taking that opportunity to push your religion on them, right?
I thought this even as an evangelical.
Nowadays I say "Sending strength vibes 💜" (sometimes depending on the context) and just reiterate that I'm there if they need me. I know that neither of us (or at least I) don't truly believe that I can literally "beam" strength at them but at least it's empathetic and not moralistic and it can make people feel better to know you care and are rooting for them like a supporter even from a distance.
When you're trying to be there for someone the whole POINT is to think about THEIR needs, NOT yours.
Sadly, Evangelicalism often teaches people to be predatory towards their "unsaved" friends and to hang around for years waiting for a moment when they're heartbroken by grief and loss to ambush them with "Jesus can save you" message.
It's taught as being patient and praying for them and having faith until God "softens their heart" or even "breaks them", but it's actually insidious manipulation - you're gaining their trust pretending to be a genuine friend who accepts them unconditionally but you're actually waiting till they're emotionally vulnerable to pull them into the cult and recruit them.
You're indoctrination them into a high-control system because you've been taught you're saving them from eternal torture so in light of that of course you're doing good - the sheer terror of hell makes the ends seem to justify the means.
And I say "cult" because Evangelicalism IS a cult in how it indicates people- just look at the BITE model.
I find that with most friends and acquaintances, even those of different faiths or none at all that a simple "I will keep your intentions in my prayers" is accepted with good grace.
I like when both teams are praying for the win, and after the match you see who god loves more! haha
I stopped praying decades ago. Over the last 10-15 years I have come to the unshakable understanding that there is no God, no heavin, no hell, only the expanse of the universe of infinite dimension. My life end is finite, once I stop breathing I cease to exist, there is nothing beyond. I am completely comfortable with this. It has even improved my life. Having this understanding of the end-life, I now make every moment count for a little or a lot more knowing that there is only one go around, one chance at life and this is it. It takes time to get to this place in your life but I guarantee this is much much better than having false hopes of prayers to a god that does not exist and therefore does not grant wishes/prayers.
Or and by the way, since prayers won't be answered, don't bother to pray for me. It won't make any difference. If you really want to make a difference, instead of praying find some way of doing something yourself for others. There is one guarantee with praying and that is nothing will happen.
Pray to a God who couldn't be bothered.
Thank you for this. It annoyed me to no end when strangers I just met asked me if they could put my name on a prayer list when I had cancer and I was like, of course, in our society you can’t say no because that would be offensive to them, but it was really annoying and offensive to me, or I would get the people that would say, well God willing you’ll pull through and I’m thinking that’s a really shitty thing to say to somebody who doesn’t believe in God and is currently battling cancer. I think I’ll make lifestyle changes and do my best to not have the cancer come back, not put it in the hands of an imaginary being. I think people pray to feel good about themselves, and that they’re actually doing something for me when in fact, I would prefer they bring a hot meal to my door or watch my kids when I need to get some sleep or clean my house because when you’re going through chemo, you really don’t feel like cleaning your house but, you know, thanks for the prayer 🙏🏽
In James 1:5 we read, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives to all men (and women) liberally." Put God to the test, Francis, and ask Him if He's real and if so... to reveal Himself to you. If He does, then you know He's real... if He doesn't then you can pat yourself on the back and walk away. Fair enough? Take care and Merry Christmas..
I know this is irrelevant to this subject but......those eyes are enchanting. Wow
I used to have this T shirt that said: “Jesus is coming. Everybody look busy”. I got some nasty looks in the grocery store. I also had this pin at the time which read: “I found Jesus. He was behind the couch the whole time “. My grandma used to ask me to not wear that. I also had this Pride bumper sticker with men and men, women and men and women and women holding hands. One day an elderly couple in the car behind me were glaring at it. If looks could kill, I would have been dead. 😅😂❤
people giving you judgemental looks huh. I do believe in the Bible, however I would say your freedom of speech and religion is just as valid as mine wether I agree with your stance or not. I do hope someday though if you haven't placed your trust in him that you'll be willing to.
Lol. Just collecting the blasphemy
Actions which are contrary to the sixth commandment will not bring God's blessing. If we persist in disobeying God's laws then we have no right to expect God's providence.
Oh, I've got a T-shirt that says that. My parents got it for me, I think. I've only worn it once, though. My wife and I were going somewhere, and she told me to change my shirt, and I put that one on for a joke. She gave me a stoney look. I said I'd go change it, and she said "No, you picked it, you're wearing it." I felt rather self-conscious that day.
We recently had a forest fire in my area, and my friend told me to pray for rain. He had already been praying for rain. So I guess as God watched over 100 homes burning it never would’ve occurred to him to send rain until I asked him to send it. And maybe that wasn’t enough, my friend had to ask too. He sent the rain a bit late. Maybe we had to ask louder.
Another one of my friends said that when they got a flat tire, God was so good because he made them get it in front of a service station. I really wanted to ask if he couldn’t have stopped them from getting it in the first place.
'God' is exactly the same thing as 'No God'. Same net result for everything.
Reminds me of those cases like a whole house burns to the ground and they find a Bible among the ashes, a little burned on the outside but almost intact, and they call it a miracle. Or even worse, there’s been a plane crash, all passengers died except for a child and again it’s a miracle. Yeah, god saved the child and what about the other two dozens people who died?
Count the hits and ignore the misses. Everything good that happens is thanks to god, everything bad is our fault, or the devil’s. Definitely some unassailable logic there.
I don't like using copy/paste for responses usually, but "Look for my long post in the root comments."
In the state I live in, the climate undergoes alternating periods of rain and drought. The length of the periods varies considerably, but it is generally something like 3-4 years of sufficient or abundant rain and then 3-4 years of drought. I have observed this phenomenon my whole life and I am past 70. Whenever we get into the drought period the farmers complain loudly. Several years ago we had been in one of the drought periods for about two years. A number of pastors from all over the state banded together, announced they would hold a day-long prayer session at a small country church near the center of the state, and pray for rain, and they asked members of the public to participate. The governor made it known throughout the state that he would attend and pray. I don't know how many people came, but apparently it was quite a number. Given the fact that it was a media event, the media was there in force. A photograph published in the newspapers showed the governor on his knees in the front of the church praying, with other people sitting in the pews praying. About a year and a half later, the drought ended and we went into a period of sufficient rainfall. The governor and the pastors claimed that their prayers were answered. We have subsequently had two more drought periods. This governor had pretty shabby ethics and I thought it ironic that he would show up in a church. And what about Jesus's commandment that we are to pray in secret in a closet? Matthew 6:5-6.
Not only has it been shown that prayer does NOT work, in fact it’s known to work less than not praying because the devout often pray in lieu of taking useful actions.
👍👍
What you mean to say is that they pray in lieu of taking action.
@@pintificate correct. Typing too fast
This hits home with me. I was a devout christian for 19 years. For practically every issue that came along that I had to deal with, I prayed to god that the issue be resolved according to his will. I actually thought that to ASK god to do this or to do that about any issue was an attempt to substitute my will for god's will and would put me in arrogance toward him in that I did not trust him to make the right thing happen. Likewise, I felt that to ACT on my own and not allow god to do what was right or what needed to be done was arrogance toward him. So my life was one grand mess for those 19 years--god never responded so that decisions that needed to be made and things that needed to get done were left undecided and undone. When I finally de-converted and became an atheist/agnostic, I discovered I COULD make MY OWN decisions and take actions based on MY OWN experience and common sense, and my life took a dramatic turn for the much, much better.
Look for my long post in the root comments.
It's funny that the only people that claim they trust God are the ones that keep asking him to change his plan.
My “favorite” is when you pray for someone to live through an illness, for them to be healed, and when they pass, you’re told that sometimes God heals them by “calling them home”. 🙄
It's a win-win for "God".
Yep! They always have an excuse for when he doesn’t answer. It’s a cop out. Infuriates me!
If God was real and answered prayers, then my SIX year old BABY wouldn't be going through horrendous chemo treatments for Lymphoma. Period.
Wow...im sorry for your kids,but are you serious??
If you was a honest,good follower of Jesus Christ,this wouldn't have happened.But can you say you're a good person ??
If God doesn't exist because he didn't answer your prayer
Science is fraud because they can't heal your kids either.
Look man it's time to be humble.Humble yourself.
I am truly sorry to hear about this.. 😢
Out of 8 billion human beings, I will pray for you specifically today,
Thanks for being brave in sharing your story❤
@@lancemarchetti8673 do you realise this will not help? There is nothing that proves that praying for someone to get better will help them get better. One way you could actually help is donating for cancer research.
@@juliee593 Thank you for your kind words.
@@lancemarchetti8673omg I can't tell if you're Trolling or Genuine.
The whole "sometimes God's answer is no" is the biggest scapegoat of all time.
I like the mustard seed verse because if it's true that means faith doesn't exist because mountains aren't moving
Maybe they can move in alternate universe where there are talking snakes.
And some people still say the bible doesn't make ANY testable predictions... 😈
You're on fire Kristi! 🔥
Keep up the great content. 👌
@@christophergibson7155Ok could you please stop trolling this channel?
@@funnibeanboi1363 He wants it to grow and grow!
@@christophergibson7155 No one wants it though, so prepare for social consequences, like being mocked or called out on your frankly annoying behavior.
Dear ole Christopher Columbus, that your nonsensical bs bible has no meaning on this channel. You feel me? I advise instead to quote from a dumf to back your delusions.
@@christophergibson7155Your god or jesus isn't real. The bible isn't proof or evidence of anykind and christianity in this country is finally starting to die out.
Thanks, Kristi, your videos have been helping me a lot to consolidate my atheism, especially since I quit religion after 22 long years and it is difficult to not doubt sometimes if I made the right decision. It's now been a year and a half and I'm the happiest I've ever been.
thats great, but all life ends, eternity is forever.Think about where you will spend it. dont take any chances, theres no turning back once its over. Jesus is always there for you, whether you choose to believe it or not. Trust in him, and you can also be happy, along with having eternal life in heaven. Alot better than the alternative.Please dont listen to this girl, she is a deceiver, and will take you to hell right along with her, if she dont repent and trust in Him. Its not worth it. At least give him a chance to show you. open your heart and ask him to reveal his Spirit to you. If you truly seek him, he will come. I felt the same as you not long ago, but when i asked him into my life, his Holy Spirit came into my heart, and completely changed me inside out. I now live for Him, and it was the best decision I ever made. Dont wait. You never know when your time is up. Looking out cuz Jesus told me to write this to you. You were the only one i responded to, so take this serious. I love you brother, in Jesus name
I walked away at 62 years old. Out of habit I still say a "blessing" before I eat...it's goes something like this..."Well God, I don't think you're out there, but that doesn't stop me for being grateful for this food...so if anyone is out there or not, thank you for this food" hahaha.
one more thing real quick. You said you left religion, well being a Christian is not religion, its a relationship. When you repent, and except Christ, He will send the Holy Spirit to live on the inside. Who will then direct you, guide you, and fill you will the peace and joy like you have never had before. You will become a new creation, and the Lord will give you a purpose in life. All im saying is dont look to people for guidance, go to the source. Go someplace alone, open the bible and ask the Lord to reveal himself through his word. Seek and you will find. People will let you down, but the Lord will always be there for you. Dont give up, Im praying for you. You cant talk someone into heaven, only the Holy Spirit can change their heart. I know hes going to change yours. He saw what you went through, thats why he is calling you. Answer the call.
@wanderer44 I opened my Bible for guidance, but landed on a verse telling me to acquire slaves. Turns out slavery has been outlawed. Now what?
Interesting viewpoint. But pursuing happiness is not the goal of Life.
I'll pray for you.
Translation-
I want the best for you as long as it takes no effort on my behalf!
Everytime someone says they are going to pray for something, I want to ask, 'Doesn't God already know you want that? Why do you have to tell him that? Is he so keen on seeing you begging and grovelling?'
... why do you spell god with a capital letter?
@@smidlee7747 thanks
@@lancemarchetti8673 It's a language thing. God is capitalized when it is used as a proper name, so I am referring to a specific one (in this case the one my conversation partner believes in). Proper names are always spelt with a capital letter in English, like languages, countries etc.
Whereas god(s) with a small letter is unspecific and used just as a normal noun.
That was the explanation I heard in my linguistic studies. (I know another user answered you differently.)
@@smidlee7747 so he's unsure of his worth and needs a few superstitious species of primates in a corner of a galaxy somewhere to capitalize a name to feel more "absolute"-ish or something? o.O
@@smidlee7747 You are mistaken, and it seems you are blinded by your own faith. Like any believer, you take as facts what you believe and for which there is no evidence. It has never been proven that any god exists at all.
My explanation however, is from a researched linguistic point of view. In language, 'god' is just a word that is treated like any other of the same grammatical category.
I appreciate you so much.❤ You make me feel like I am not alone.
You are definitely not alone!
One thing that factored very strongly into my deconstruction and ultimate deconversion is that when my son was diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder, my father told me that he was praying that my son would be "healed" of his autism. When I told him that first, autism isn't a disease and two, autism isn't something you can be "cured" of or something that can go away later, my father replied "well, do you not believe that we serve a mighty God who can do all things and is faithful to answer prayer?" And I had to admit...I didn't. And I was frankly offended by his take on my son's condition.
Oof, I have autism, but luckily my parents weren't that bad. Sorry that happened to you, and I hope your child is doing well.
Charles Darwin would most probably say that Autism is a natural result of Human Evolution.
Let's pray he's wrong.
Yes, he crossed over the line into indecency with that one.
The "I don't have anything else to say" hit me deep, just like in Forrest Gump. Never stop running, Kristi! 😊
Prayer is just another example of the placebo effect
Nope.
I am agnostic, and I certainly have seen my fair share of friends and family misled by the less reputable aspects of Christianity, but I rarely discourage prayer. One of my dearest friends is devout and prays daily. When she's done with the actual practice of praying, she goes about her day, but she also keeps an eye out for "signs" that her prayers have been heard. She sees these signs as opportunities to take some small step towards solutions to the challenges she has prayed about. Prayer keeps those challenges in the forefront of her mind: and she would likely have never noticed those chances or had the confidence to act on them without that. She tends to believe that God has given her opportunity: I gently remind her that, regardless, she is the one who saw that opportunity and did the actual leg work. In effect, the effort she puts into prayer enables her to answer her own prayers. Her challenges are addressed, and she comes away with more peace and confidence. If prayer kept her passive, waiting for her problems to miraculously disappear, I wouldn't feel the same, but as it is, I won't discourage it.
This was always a point with me when I was Christian. If you pray to God to heal Tom's leg, and he's already doing it, then what's the point? If you pray to God to get you into a better job, but he wants you here, then whats the point? Many others I spoke to just pointed out that it was a command that we're to pray. Or that God is beyond our understanding. I eventually just decided maybe God did it to make people try to practice being considerate to others, to think of their wellbeing and so forth. But that was like a half answer to me, I still just didn't get it.
Now whenever anyone hears I'm an atheist and says "ill pray for you"? Oh man. That's just like, my hot button. I get unreasonably upset, tho maybe not, I've never had it said in a respectful way. It's their way of both leaving the conversation while putting you lower than them.
It's so condescending
My personal take on prayer is the the Christian God in particular is a narcissist who craves the attention. As well as a sadist who delights in saying "no" and screwing you over anyway.
@christophergibson7155 Bro I've literally argued with you before. Do you just seek out vids like this to evangelize in the comments section? It's entirely both ineffective and annoying, I'll be real
Best answer when you are told “I’ll pray for you.” is “Thanks a lot, I’ll think for you.” 😅
@@Ipsolus Bro, if you haven't noticed... You're kinda doing the same thing.
You express your viewpoint on gods, prayers, pirates or whatever an expect others to believe in what you're saying. So allow others to express their convictions on those topics too. It's called basic tolerance. Now lettuce prey🙏😄
I agree with you 100% about prayer. god has a plan and praying is changing gods plan. praying is wishful thinking the Christian always has an excuse when the prayer does not come true such as the enemy the devil god is testing . its all B.S. great work another good video I enjoy your content on all social media platforms
I figured something out recently... This was when christians constantly blame everything that happens on a devil or devils, when it is infact them causing their own issues most of the time... If one of them gives you "the devil is doing x to trick you do y" nonsense...just tell the "The only devils that exist are the ones you create in your mind"...and whatch their eyes glaze over in fear...lol
This list is HOW PRAYER "WORKS".
1) Escapes accident: praise Jesus. I was saved!
2) Injured but OK: praise Jesus. He healed me!!!
3) Permanently disabled but alive: praise Jesus, I'm being tested.
4) Died: praise Jesus, he's in heaven!
---Rod Espinosa
Yes..God always gets the credit and never the blame…no matter what.
@twistedblood234 it doesn't seem like most people who pray see it that way. How many times do you hear religious people say they will pray for their god to do this, to help that person, to avoid this catastrophe? And those people genuinely believe their god answers those prayers, when in reality whether you pray or not the same thing happens.
@twistedblood234 that is... just not proving anything at all. Many people miss trains and flights that end up in crashes, without anyone praying for them. Many people die in train and plane collisions, despite people praying for their safety. To me that seems like the most obvious coincidence...
@twistedblood234 also, if what you believe is true and god chose to spare that person in particular, why did he choose not to spare all the others who died? That seems very cruel to me. Extremely cruel. There were probably children on that train. He chose not to save them in that case. The kind of god that allows train crashes to happen but makes just one guy fall asleep before he goes on the train as to only spare him is not the kind of god I would worship.
@twistedblood234 then why do you think he cared about this one guy and not all the others?
I used to be a hospital chaplain and struggled with praying for patients. Often they asked my to pray for healing. The way I sort of resolved the issue was thinking about it as praying for god to be comforting to them. I have moved on but that is the only positive outcome of prayer I can see... some sort of comfort during difficult times.
The problem with this is that it takes away the premourning period, which makes it harder to cope with loss after the fact. If you're certain that a "miracle" will occur, you're not spending time accepting reality. So when reality finally comes knocking, you're having an even worse time. Religion at large has a terrible track record when it comes to healthy coping mechanisms, since it replaces almost all of them with prayer and fanaticism.
That's why people who experience trauma after leaving their faith often times struggle much more than life long atheists who were fortunate enough to develop actual coping mechanisms.
It's nothing more than false hope though..I'd rather be told the ugly truth than a beautiful lie
Can’t tell you how much I prayed for my daughter throughout her short life. Neither of us ever got any comfort from those prayers. In fact, I felt worse because I felt rejected and couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong. A few years before she died I realized, there was no god to hear my prayers, reject me and I wasn’t doing anything wrong. So glad I realized it before she died so I wasn’t left with a ton of anger.
@@26beegee How many "christians" did you want to punch in the face for telling you that "god wanted another little angel" or that "she's in a better place now"?
My sister lost her son at 4yo to an accident as well. And even though I live in a way less religious country than most people on here, I still saw assholes tell her this asinine nonsense.
I never punched anyone over it and only told them off instead. But the desire to do it was real.
I wish you all the best and all the strength. Just reading and writing about this leaves a knot in my stomach.
@@Finckelstein Exactly. And I can’t forget the, “you wouldn’t want her back like she was” (my father) and the “you will be together in heaven” statements either. Not only doesn’t help but, actually makes the pain even worse. 🤬 Thank you for your kind words. ❤️
Thank you for another powerful video. It is amazing how I could now clearly see how unreasonable I was within my previous views. Great job !
I recently found your channel and just subscribed. I’m still deconstructing my faith after leaving my controlling family.
Welcome ❤️ happy you're finding your own path
@@jezebelvibesthank you 😊
This channel is about nothing more than making money.
This problem is even deeper. Any omniscient god already knows if I am destined for heaven or hell. The bible says that he is constant and doesn't change his mind, yesterday, today or forever. It doesn't matter what I do, he can't be wrong. So, where did my free will just go?
the bible never says that God never changes His mind. There are many examples in scripture where God did change from what He said He was originally planning to do. The scripture says that God changes not, meaning His nature and character never changes. It doesn't mean that He never changes His mind about doing something or not doing it.
@@marshallbrooksjr7666 Thank you for your interpretation. Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 13:8 declare that, "God is the same always and never ever changes. He is always good, always loving, always all-powerful. No matter how this world changes around us, we can trust God is consistent. He is the same yesterday, today, and Forever!" We appear to define these biblical verses differently. I don't see how you can separate omniscient knowledge of an outcome from predestination.
@@martynsnan Thank you. There is a difference between knowing ahead of time what will happen and causing or forcing that thing to happen. Actually, God does have a general predestination for all of us, in that He desires all of us to be saved and to come to the knowledge of Him and to be added to His Kingdom. And He may have a general plan for all of us, that He desires for us to follow, but that does not mean we are not free to choose or to reject that plan. And also that doesn't mean that there are not specific things that He does not care one way or the other what we choose. He may not care if I decide to dye my hair brown or blue, but He leaves some things up to us, concerning what we prefer, for we all are different with different tastes and styles. Someone may desire to have a car and someone else desires to have a truck. And He loves to hear His children express those desires out to Him, just as if one of us has a young child and we would desire to hear that child communicate out to us about what he would like. Even if we already know what he likes, we would still love to have dialog back and forth with that child about those tastes and styles and preferences.
@@marshallbrooksjr7666 I understand your point about not being forced but it doesn't change the basic concept. God is omniscient and must know how each life will unfold. He cannot be wrong, therefore, his foreknowledge must be correct and unchangeable. If that is true, my journey and destination are predestined no matter how I choose to live my life and I have no way to alter that.
A similar difficulty arose for the philosopher Epicurus when he considered the problem of omnipotence versus evil.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus
@@martynsnan Yes God knows what you will choose, but you are the one who decides to choose it. Therefore you have free will. There is no conflict between Gods foreknowledge and your free will. God knows what you will freely choose. Now that would be different if somehow you were given foreknowledge of what you would choose and then we're locked into that choice and couldn't change your mind. But that is not what is happening. We are allowed to change our minds back and forth 100 times before finally doing something. But you are the one who ultimately decides what to do, not God.
To me there is no conflict between the two and His foreknowledge does not distinguish our free will. Both are true at the same time. We have free will and He has foreknowledge of what we will freely choose to do.
If you give up after 40 years for healing then God will say, If you would have waited another 40 years i might have healed you! 😂
Yup!!
Heads I win tails you lose.
It makes u think like why are u so privileged to have your prayer answered but the starving children around the world that truly believe, are struggling everyday , what makes you so special for god to not care for the people that really need help it baffles me. It just comes down to who has access to resources. It makes me feel like god plays favorites
So much yes! I was just having this conversation with my MIL. I was telling her even when I was strong in my faith prayer made ZERO sense. Prayer =God's suggestion box.
She was telling me that she believes in prayer healing & that God is merciful.
(She prayed for her friends frozen shoulder & then her friend was able to move.)
I argued that by her own statement God is NOT merciful. If he was he wouldn't need a middle man. He wouldn't need someone begging for healing. A merciful God who knows all & who created us all would know exactly what we need & do it. He wouldn't wait around for someone to speak for the person needing healing.
I don't understand why basic human decency seems more moral than our examples of the Christian God. If I knew my kid was hurting or in need I wouldn't wait around for one of my other kids to ask me to help the one in need. 🤷🏻♀️
Please, have your MIL read my long post in the root comments on this video.
this topic also points to the "free will" problem. How can god know what any of us is gonna do, if we have free will, how free is our will, if god already knows what were gonna do. It stands for prayers as well
just because God knows what we will do does not mean that we are not free to decide to do something or to not do something. It just means He already knows what choice we will make.
@@marshallbrooksjr7666 yeah well it means exactly that. If he already knows you are gonna choose A, tell me how you are free to choose B?
@@kamnale1317 because you are free to choose B. He just knows that you are going to choose A. But He is not forcing you to choose A. The choice is still yours. Those are 2 different things. To know something is going to happen is not the same as causing it to happen. You are free and have the power to choose A or B, and that is free will.
I praise Kristi for allowing ALL comments to be shown. It's so rare of people to be as opened minded to allow this. Kudos to you Kristi!
Thanks for your thoughtful comments on prayer. By praying we want god to bend the universe so we can have something good happen for us.
But if God already has a perfect plan for everything how will praying change his mind?
Wasn't God already looking out for people, do you think you have a better idea than God what is good for you?
@@nati0598 Gosh, god must have sneezed or yawned or looked away for some reason when (name any deadly catastrophe) happened. "God" doesn't care one iota about any of us.
@@stevepierce6467 Yeah, but is that what OP thinks?
@@nati0598 What is OP?
When I was a kid, I remember watching a news story about an awful crash landing of a plane, where many people died. One of the survivors was on camera, saying, “God must have been looking out for me! God was with me that day!” And I wondered why he wasn’t “there” for all the other people who died? Every time I’ve ever heard someone say something like that, I tried to make that make sense. I couldn’t, not without sounding like a jerk, or making God sound like a jerk. I’ve eventually come to realize that there is no Jerk in the sky. If there IS a god, then He/She/They/It is NOT what we were taught.
Attribution is overlooked. When a prayer is answered, God is a miracle worker. When it’s not, God is mysterious, or it’s the “enemy”. You can attribute your desires happening or not happening to pretty much anything.
Praying but also believing in “god’s will” is something I thought I was the only one who knew it was contradicting! Even when I was a christian (over a decade ago now) I usually didn’t believe in god’s will/god’s plan I kept hearing about. And I especially hated when sometimes when I would tell a friend or acquaintance I was interested in a certain guy, instead of giving me advice I needed or just listening to me, I would be told to just pray about it or god already has a perfect guy for me, or both.
Everyone should be told to pray. It is the quickest way to prove that it doesn't work! Look for my long post in the root comments.
Imagine that you're in a relationship with somebody who holds absolute power over you, and makes you beg for things that they were either always going to do or never do, but insited that you went through the humiliation regardless. Prayer, and its futility, is typical of the abusive character of God that appears in the bible.
Over the last 20 years I deconstructed my faith with possibly thousands of hours of research study and discussion. Fascinated by the reasoned arguments presented by the great thinkers. That said I want to encourage you and your channel as your kind and respectfull style of presentation presents as both authentic and profound. Keep it up. Trevor
I pray to God that everyone elses prayers go unanswered. Its 100 % effective.
Based
But is it still "effective" when some people will just interpret the lack of answer as a "no" answer? :-s
@irrelevant_noob lolol 🤣
I like that counter to my statement.
@@Zero-ei8jn oh well, it's effective enough. And a good highlight of the internal inconsistency of praying in the first place. 👌
Prayer: The most effective method to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of prayer.
I wasn’t raised in a charismatic type church. We were often accused of not having the Holy Spirit, lol. Looking back, I’m grateful for that. When I believed, I always saw prayer as a way to clear my mind and discover what I should do, or that God would provide the help through people. I think it did work in a way, as a meditation to clear my mind, and a way to locate help. What I really struggled with was suffering.
I couldn't agree more with you, as a ex catholic guy, I passed my whole life praying at the point to calluses on my knees, first when I was a kid/teen I just asked god to give me things, nothing crazy like god give me a Bugatti or something like that and after I became adult and realized that I didn't got what I've been praying for, I just prayed to god give me wisdom and give me what he wants when he wants, but anything changed and for a while I thought I was his time, but my life was passing and nothing was changing for good, things is getting worse my country is a mess in part because people a way too religious and they are blind and easily blinded by powerful people, and nothing that church told me to be "good things" happens to me and after a lot reflection I realized that god doesn't exist and at bare minimum he didn't like me, because I passed my whole life following his teachings and nothing good happens to me, but I saw many people that were either didn't have faith as I did or was straight up bad people and they got everything I prayed for and when a try to say that to a religious friend he said that I had envy, but wasn't envy I just saw my praying not working and wasn't like if I wanna what they had, I want to have my own and they have theirs, like how finding a good job needs to be in detriment of someone's resignation, but for my friend that was the case, same friend that told me he will help me and never did, because for him his life was good.
I'm catholic too and as a catholic you should have known that God cooperates with us. God won't do all the work you must put some effort too.. if God did all the work, anything you pray for wouldn't have meaning.
@@demonsnow1413 I asked for help and he didn't helped me, I was asking nothing crazy, just to not lose my faith.
Work hard, pray and when you succeed you thank prayer. If you don't, blame your sinful self. How moronic y'all Christians are!
In the meantime, Catholic guy, how are the altar boys faring?
Saying "I will prayer for you " is nothing short of saying good luck ya might be screwed
I love your reasoning. I actually believe that we are all part and parcel of God, so we all participate in the creation of our universe. I think that is THE major flaw in Christianity, is that it separates us from God. I experience a lot of synchronicities in my life now. I was an atheist until I journeyed and then I was guided to very esoteric information and that led to my praying and some of my prayers have been answered, possibly. Note that I am not sure about that. Being sure is the path to egotistic ignorance. I am only one small part of the universal whole, so my power is very limited. I can only add a straw to the camel's back and sometimes that might be enough. So, I will continue to pray, but mostly I just give thanks for what they have shown me and their continued personal, support.
You're absolutely right. Why pray for something that was already destined to happen anyway?
What good is a divine plan if anyone can just demand said plan be changed in their favor?
Nothing fails like prayer.
Calvinism is the faith of predestination. It's not really considered mainstream Christian theology.
My dad straight up told me a couple of years ago that "God doesn't talk with women".
😮thats so sad
Your Dad was right. Organized Religion is 100% Patriarchal. Women are subjugated and are considered property or fodder.
God definitely prefers chatting with delusional men.
What nonsense is this? God talks to everyone - men / women / boys / girls / eunuch.
This is not written in bible
Lmao! Ask your father what god exactly told him the last time he talked with god.
Kristi I love you because you think critically. We are not going to let these mind control ops continue to corrupt the human race.
At my former church earlier this year, we had two elderly gents: one going in for an operation to repair an esophageal tear, the other for, in his own words "a simple and routine procedure."
So the prayer requests went out and the congregration did their bit.
The results?
The operation for the esophageal tear FAILED. He went septic and ended up a lot worse and was in the hospital for six weeks until they were able to get him stable enough to send home, and (last I heard) he's still been in and out of the hospital.
By contrast, the "simple routine procedure" went well, as expected, and he was home within a couple of hours.
What was ridiculous (and telling) was that this guy then goes home and composes an email to the church stating "BEHOLD THE POWER OF PRAYER!" and that his experience PROVES that "prayer works!"
Now think about this: the very moment he is composing this narcissistic email, the other guy is in critical condition from septicemia because his operation FAILED.
It is certain that the same people were praying for him too.
Could god not take care of the esophageal tear and only deal with simple routine outpatient medical procedures? Could god not handle two people from the same congregation on the same day? (A quota perhaps)?
Surgery is always a risk and surgeons are human beings who make mistakes. A friend of mine suffered a punctured lung because the person operating on her had a slip of the scalpel by accident. Fortunately she recovered from both injuries.
Praying is just a way for people to seem concerned and caring, for people to seem like they're helping, without actually having to do anything.
"You didn't do anything." "I prayed."
And most times people say they'll pray, they don't actually do it anyway.
It also means we don't really have free will if God already has everything planned for us
but God doesn't have everything planned for us. There is nowhere in scripture that it says that every single event that happens in our lives has already been pre-planned by God to happen. He has given us all free will which is one of the reasons that so many people do such horrible things that they do, because God has given them a freedom of choice to choose what actions they will make or attempt to make.
My wife left me and I prayed for her return...19 years later still hasn't happened. Lol
And you apparently did the right thing, praying for your marriage. Sorry…
Another great opinion Kristi! When I pray, i get bad luck, for example, i fractured my ankle by walking down the stairs after a minute i prayed, was tormented by my neighbours for years after a prayer, lost my job after a week thanking God for the job. Now i don't pray anymore and lost faith in God. Why is God bringing me bad luck or allowing Satan to attack me ? God and Angels are supposed to protect and guide us with prayer, but that's not the case in my experience and i was raised in up church just like Kristi experience. The lack of proof and evidence of pray or the biblical God is non existence to me now
You can't always get what you want. The Great Prophet Mick Jagger told me that when I was 12.
That last point had me running to the subscribe button (so to speak). Damn fine point; damn well said! 🍻