Personally, I can't do without a physical medium, vinyl records are the TOP. It's not just listening (hearing). I love old records, the smell is in the first place, an old record is like an old book, it smells so nice, then the touch when you turn the cover and finally comes the listening (hearing), Basically it's a whole package that streaming doesn't give us. Listening to physical media is a ritual, like making tea….
I used to feel EXACTLY like you (first about vinyl, then about cd's) but have since switched over to all-digital/mp3's via internet downloads a la carte...The main thing about that (for me) is that I'd NEVER be able to afford all of the great music out there if buying it all as physical media but now I can, that's huge. It took some doing on my part to get there though, it wasn't easy...
I listen to and find new music on places like Bandcamp, Spotify, Soundcloud, Tidal, and CZcams. If I really like a particular album or EP I'll buy the vinyl directly from the artist. Nowadays, if you solely rely on a format like commercial radio you'll pretty much never find anything decent, it also feeds into the idea that there's no good music anymore, an idea that's patently false.
@@wolf1977 I do both. We've had a long history of 2nd hand record shops here in London, so since the 70s, whatever I buy {LP, tape, CD, download} I always record it anyway {nowadays onto CD then transfer to ipod for listening} so I always have the physical copy as a back up.
So glad that Martin called out an important fact - people make art because they want to express themselves. Making a living/career out of that expression is a totally different thing. Some people are content doing a "real job" and making art (of any variety, not just music) in their spare time, and some people are so ruled by the need to express themselves that creating art is the only thing that provides them any personal satisfaction. The tools used to make art change, and the mechanisms of distribution change, but the need to create does not.
Great point, Reed. There is a thriving home recording scene of people that will never make up to £100 or $100, but will continue to make music or videos because that is what they love to do.
Enjoyed this episode. one thing that resonates with me is back when I was collecting albums pre internet I used to buy and sit down with the album a number of times with no distractions and fully consume it. Nowdays with the internet and tech in general speeding the pace of life and info at warp speed at you I now still buy but then listen while doing whatever im up to at the time as well. I do miss the quiet time with new albums maybe it's time to go back to that and find that space of time again.
Another great discussion guys. As a younger viewer of 22, I'll add my perspective here... I can't think of any friends or relatives of a similar age to me that really consider the album format anymore - apart from one other - and the key similarity between us is that we both collect physical product. With Spotify and the other streaming services, I don't see any significant persuasion to indulge in music in the "old-fashioned" album way. The music is spoon-fed, either in a top 10 on the artist's page based on popularity, a Spotify-created "best of" from each artist, or in a playlist with similar other music included. With some artists, the albums can even be out of order or littered with 3-4 different remasters with different dates which makes it impossible to start without consulting Wikipedia. I agree that there is probably far too much out there and almost gives a feeling of where to start. However, I even feel that with the breadth of knowledge that Martin and Pete have on a significant range of artists! I grew up with the album format, either with CDs, or my father's history of listening to rock music and the truly memorable album artwork. Unless you've been born into a family or another person who is already into music ("the album way"), then there are plenty of other entertainment means fighting for your attention these days. Social media, video games, and film - are all very accessible. This also creates shorter attention spans which doesn't lend itself to sitting down for 30-40-50 minutes (even longer if a double album) to listen to an album. Also, if you're streaming on Spotify, it's only a click away to skip the track you're listening to. Call it lazy, but at least with a CD or vinyl, you usually have to make some effort to get out of your seat and skip the track you're listening to, so you tend to just stick it out. I do have a Spotify account and use it occasionally, and yes I do have a playlist of pretty much everything I like, but that's pretty much for tracking purposes only. All of my physical collection has been imported to iTunes and I have a similar playlist here, however, I also have a playlist by artist so I can sort things that way too. I too, like Pete, have an iPod classic but have had one of these from a young age. It's probably my most valued possession... In the car, I will usually tend to listen to the playlist of everything just for ease, but on the odd occasion, I will listen to a full album in the car. I'll usually leave the albums for when I go for a long walk. The art of the album therefore for me is in the physical format. Take Queen as an example of a "legacy" band. Most of my friends have tracks like "Another One Bites The Dust", "Radio Ga-Ga" and "Bohemian Rhapsody" in their playlists, but would look at me blankly if I said these were tracks taken from 'The Game', 'The Works' and 'A Night At The Opera'. Maybe that recognition of what tracks appear on each album is just a 'nerdy' thing, as Pete mentioned, and perhaps always has been, but for me, context is a big thing with music and the periods of each band. But then, as previously, maybe this has always been a thing and not a new thing? As for tracking, I use RateYourMusic to log albums I've listened to and rate them, and I've even organised my physical collection into albums I've listened to and those I haven't, just to make sure nothing is throwaway. But I'm naturally anal about all these things anyway. All of my physical collection is logged on Discogs, I log all my films on Letterboxd, all my video games on Backloggd, and all the books I read on Goodbooks. I guess for most people, any of these forms of entertainment are just that and nothing more and allows them to just relax and forget about the wider world. So as long as it sounds good, do they really care about listening to a full album? Definitely food for thought, but it would be a certain shame to lose the album as an art form!
Beauty, thanks for that thorough perspective - love it. Yes, time for Spotify to fix being able to sort those catalogues out. That's why you need Wikipedia to help navigate a catalogue.
I miss those days of knowing an album was coming out on a Friday and you went to record store remember those days in the UK sometime queuing outside b4 store opened just to get on day of release
Same here, but also remember those same days when you'd read/hear about a new release you really wanted but couldn't find it (or it took forever to finally track down). That's the other side of it
I grew up in the 1980's and I can easily relate to this episode so well. I'm fortunate to be able to listen to music for hours each day. I drive for a living and listen to Spotify all day , then I go for a walk each day for an hour and listen to Spotify on my Bluetooth pocket size speaker and then I listen to music on Alexa when I'm home. The other times I listen to music is when I'm in the shower , working around the house , hanging out in the garage , ect. Rock and Metal my music of choice.
Sometimes I think I have too much music. It's hard to really get to know a new album when I have another ten behind it I need to listen to. And there's so much out there. Bandcamp is an endless maze of new bands making new music.
I have set a rule where I need to listen to a new CD three times before it goes into my collection ( got around eight thousand CDs ) because I want to feel like I have fully absorbed the music. Then, on to the next album. Now that doesn't mean I listen to the album back to back to back, I usually have nine or ten CDs in rotation, randomly listening to each one until ALL have been played three times. I currently have about a thousand CDs I have yet to listen to!
@@treff9226 how long does it take you to listen to all these albums? 3*10=30 albums. 1 album per day = 1 month approximately to end this cycle, right? I have a similar rule for myself but I listen to one album more than three times, I'd say 5-6 times before I finally get through it and can say I've tasted it enough. But it takes too much time for me that's why I'm moving forward very slowly.
I am totally with you guys... I used to know every song title on every album back in the 70s and 80s... these days, not so much... i think i knew more back then was because i had TIME to study these albums from A-Z... these days, not so much... even from my favorite bands... i have ONE positive thing today to say about the music industry is the resurgeance of vinyl (not the price though...) but i find myself listening more to full albums as opposed to the SKIP button i used often back in my CD and digital days...
Back in the day (80s for me), I didn’t have a lot of money to buy albums. So, several friends would each buy a album, we’d record it on a tape and give them to each other. Now, with Spotify or Apple Music, I have access to some much music that it can be intimidating.
I've always heard Martin say "you can't actually get heavier than [80s or 90s band]" and I'd always think to myself "just wait until he finally stumbles upon modern deathcore". I'm not even that into the genre, but I know those bands are heavy as fuck. It's fun to hear that Martin has indeed finally figured that out!
I miss the good old days spending hours record store hopping. We used to go downtown Toronto every Thursday to Sunday hitting not only the big shops but the Mom & Pop shop as well as the used record shops.
I remember going into record shops, looking for back catalogs of bands, and had to leave with something else, since "if it wasn't in the store, you'd need to special order through the store, and it might take weeks. I do enjoy the fact that a lot of the stuff we missed as kids is all now available, B-sides, rarities, etc.
I`ve been a music junkie my whole life, and today it`s almost like an overdose. Because of things like CZcams, the streaming services, Bandcamp, Discogs, and the labels themselves, I have access to even the most obscure music literally right at my finger tips. Also all the information I might want on a band is easily available. Years ago it took a lot more effort and even some luck to stumble upon that really cool band. It`s a great time to be a music fan, no matter what your tastes are.
Just a thought, as a teen in the 80’s, we may have heard two or three cuts from a band’s new release but not the rest of the album. Take the Stones as an example, I was a big fan but my budget did not allow me to get all their albums for a really long time. Only knew whatever got played on radio. Also, a band like Iron Maiden NEVER got played on Rock radio. They put out so many great albums, but if you weren’t exposed through a friend… so many bands like this that I got into much later on. Budget for a teenager , accessibility, etc, all factors.
Oh boy, don’t get me started. I’m talking from a U.K. perspective here. 1. The most important thing when it comes to music is having the listener’s attention. In 1971 (the high point of rock music, as any fule no) the average music lover aged 21 or so would have a handful of LPs and a greater number of 45s. Someone with a big record collection might have 50 LPs. Consequently they were poured over, loved, worshiped. People memorised the liner notes. 2. Record companies played an essential role in bringing the music to the public. They weren’t the blood-sucking leeches everyone goes on about, as proven by how music turned to shit once they all started disappearing. 3. Back then it was possible to really have a handle on the music scene as a whole across pop, rock, jazz, soul etc. A fraction of the amount of music released today was issued back then and it was all the better for it. 4. The ever-increasing number of genres is pointless and really, really boring. If you played your average person in the street a death metal group, a black metal one, a doom metal one, they would struggle to tell the difference. Being that anal about genres is so people can distinguish between music that basically sounds very similar. 5. There is way, way, way too much music out there. Who needs 4000 death metal bands? 2000 K Pop groups? 10,000 EDM acts? There is an enormous surplus of STUFF that no one really needs and no one really cares about. The best thing for the music industry would be for 90% of the deeply average landfill out there to disappear overnight. 6. God I’m old. But I tell you what, I’m not entirely wrong.
"Who needs 4000 death metal bands?" That's the point. Who needs 100.000 metal bands in general no matter what metal genre? It's the Warhol thing of being famous at least for 5 minutes. All these bands want to be famous and make money, but people don't have enough money to buy all the stuff (besides having all these bands, "the 4000 death metal bands and the like" that are fundamentally the same). There's too many people on the planet and there's too many of them wanting to become "somebody". Are we getting old and maybe grumpy? Yes, we are. But facts are facts. The market is oversaturated. Cheers!
All great points. I can’t argue with any of them. I’m an older guy. I appreciated music more back in the 70s when album releases were bigger events because there wasn’t so much music out there. Your comment about reading the liner notes struck me. I always used to read the liner notes while listening to an album for the first time. I never read them anymore. I just don’t care. I probably have too much music although I have music playing almost nonstop at home. As much as I love SoT, a part of me really doesn’t want to discover new music because there’s just too much to try and get into and I still love the music I already own and that’s probably enough for this lifetime.
I like this term to describe our media exposition up to the late '90s, that I read recently : "monoculture". We were all "fed" the same bands via radio, Spin/Rolling Stones and MTV. Everybody's eyes and ears were directed at the same place. There was this media funnel and we were all under it. Whereas today our attention is so much more fragmented.
the new version of trying to “ban used albums “ is the army of legacy bands like the Eagles who block people sharing their videos (even if they’d get all or a cut” on CZcams, etc
I have to say Friday Funhouse is my favorite show on the channel. Intelligent, passionate discussion about my biggest passion MUSIC. I have been turned onto some amazing bands and I thank the both of you for that, Keep it up!!!!
The discussion from Martin and Pete is so interesting as always, but I found myself extra motivated to speak about the question Pete brought up at 41:48. I just recently resigned from my job at age 52 because of the ridiculous amount of stress. I've got a decent amount in my 401K, and I've got a nice chunk in savings. In no way am I able to just say fuck it and live off of anything. Having said that, I'm taking a couple two to three weeks off to just relax and not stress. I might take a job with far less responsibilities and pressure, or I might reenter the fray that has been my life for more than half of it. There's always this talk amongst my friends about the race to retirement and how we're going to enjoy all that, even though we aren't assured of jack shit in life. Sadly, my mother had a whole year of enjoying retirement with her husband before a rare neurological disease struck her down and made her last 9 years on Earth a nightmare. To, Pete's question. I went to see Death Angel in Pittsburgh, PA a little over a month ago. My brother and I traveled from Indianapolis the day of the concert and drove back the next day. Unfortunately, I had to work the following day, so it wasn't quite the getaway that I wanted. Having said that, I had a scheduled 9-day vacation about five days later. Death Angel are a band which has to tour to make the money they need to live what I would call a middle-class lifestyle for some of their members. Maybe this isn't the case with Will and Damian, but I don't know for sure. I'm sure they have stuff on the side between making records and downtime from touring. Rob Cavestany might be the only one who has a bit of security. That's pure speculation on my part. Having said all this, if there are members who just get by, one would never know it by the fun they have on the stage. This gig was at the end of a long tour, yet their faces and general disposition were that of "we wouldn't want to be doing anything else with our lives." When I see this, it does one of two things for me; it makes me happy for them and it reminds me of that fabulous part in "Almost Famous" where Russell and William are in Kansas and the locals pull up and ask Russell if he wants to party with some "real" people from Topeka? They do and it's one of the most fun genuine scenes of any movie ever. Russell then takes the "real" line and runs with it while tens of people are listening to his every word in the bedroom. Those people in that scene, idolize the fuck out of him BECAUSE he doesn't have to answer to the 9 to 5 or much more of the bullshit that is life, like most in this country or world. It doesn't matter that Russell might have his own problems or worries, because his answer, like so many real-life musicians is the answer to Pete's question at 41:48. They don't want to deal with the 9 to 5 or what might be worse. When I go to a concert such as I did with Death Angel, I viewed that experience as "real" and I think everyone else felt that same way. That bit of escapism of a show is the best drug in the whole world and that's why they choose this path.
This is a great episode. I definitely have more music in my collection (both physical media and digital) that I can listen to in my lifetime; it makes choosing what to play challenging, on a regular basis. To make matters more interesting, I'm one of those listeners that continually picks up favorites over my lifetime.... I love what I listened to as a kid right alongside artists I've discovered in the last 15 years. Nothing's really fallen off (with an exception or two). It's often very overwhelming!!
The hardest thing about these musical times for me is that the desire to hear it all and pay attention to it can not be fulfilled. The curiousity is still there but time is getting less and less.
Another great show, gentlemen! As an aging Gen X guy (50 this year) who still has a youthful spirit, I have one foot in the past, and one very much in the present. I'm still a physical media person and still buy CDs. There is simply no room in my apartment for a large record collection anymore, but I love physical media, so it's CDs for me. I also still listen to albums *as* albums, first track to the last, so in certain ways, I am "stuck in the past." However, I'm also still very curious about new music, and excited to discover new bands and artists that I may well love-- and there is *so much great new music* out there, right now, so why should I stay "stuck in the past," in *that* sense, only, or mostly, listening to the classics that I already know and love? I may be 50, but I'm *not even close* to giving up on new music, and in that sense, SOT has been a godsend over the last few years, in pointing me to great newer bands, *and* great older bands that I just missed out on, back when they were originally releasing albums. In that latter vein, I was five years old in '78, and just getting into rock music, and in the small Alabama town where I lived at the time, there was almost no way that I could have found out about the band, Trillion, and their fantastic self-titled '78 debut album. However, thanks to SOT's recent, very informative, show on pomp rock, I now own a reissue of this album on CD (with cool new liner notes, and vintage notes on the band, and photos too,) and I will be happily listening to it over and over, first track to last! 🙂 I also bought Trillion's second album, "Clear Approach," on CD too, and can't wait to hear it, along with other pomp rock CDs bought at the same time, inspired by that SOT show. I'm already looking forward to getting some new prog albums too, from Pete and Ken's new show, but that will have to wait until next month, as I've already spent so much money on music this month! I miss the music magazines that I used to voraciously read in the '80s and '90s to learn about new music, but SOT is greatly helping to fill in that gap!
Another aging Xer here! I totally agree with you, somehow I managed to keep my records too.. Pete and SoT are my main intro to new music! It's just there are no record stores to purchase them from... I don't like on-line ordering. Amazon has given me a hard time! Thanks to the TooYoob!
@@SD9xcp311x Thanks for the comment! SOT is my main place to learn about new music, these days, too. I also hear you, 100%, on missing actual record stores where we could buy new music. Some of my best friendships, over the years, were made in those stores. I spent *so many hours* in record stores in the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s, and now, with the exception of used record stores, there is literally no place of business to buy music in physical media form, in my area, anymore. I would rather buy CDs from a physical store, partially to support local businesses, but since that's not an option for me anymore, I buy online. I can't stand Amazon though, and I try to avoid it as much as possible. My three favorite sites for buying music online are Ken Golden's Laser's Edge, Bull Moose, and Collector's Choice Music. Between those three sites, I can usually find *almost* any album on CD that is recommended on SOT, and with better service, and often, better pricing and packaging (more careful shipping, to avoid damages), than I've encountered with Amazon.
@@christianman73 Yes! I do want to order from Ken Golden's Laser's Edge! He is a cool supporter of the site... Lately I have found some cool stuff from the Disc Replay.. just picked up "Warchild" today for 4.99!
When you think about all music being so accessible today, you can't help but admire people like Mick Jagger, Robert Plant and John Lennon when they were young in post-war Britain. The process of them just being able to FIND the American Blues and early Rock 'N' Roll records that inspired them was a journey unto itself. They would have to search high and low, even going so far as looking on the black market. They knew what it meant to treasure music and art.
@raymondcarver476 It works both ways. I used to love travelling all over the country, checking out albums in second hand stores, picking selections of artists I'd never heard of, without having heard the music. Then when the internet happened, it was great listening to 30 second snatches of an artist or song from the comfort of my front room, then buying the LP or CD.
A retired music industry attorney with "name" clients told me that the recording industry ceased to be economically viable in 1982 but was given a decade and a half life extension by MTV and CDs.
Popoff and Pardo are it again and discussing the length and breadth of the music business, its artists and - for lack of a better word - its product. Being older than other of the speakers and being one of the old guys mentioned by Martin as "...back in my day it was all rock...", this was interesting hearing these two not quite in the generation below mine but at least a decade younger talking about what was, what is, and what will be in this topic. Particularly enjoyed the consideration of AI in this discussion since it is currently a topic great personal interest and continue to believe that most of us are unable to imagine how far reaching and changing AI may be in the music field and elsewhere. While on the beach with my nephew a couple of weeks back, he created three items of art in just a few minutes using his cellphone and brief narrative of what each piece should include or represent and a few other parameters. The results were astonishing in the speed created and the quality of such a quick design. Just a fascinating hour or so, gents. As always, thanks for your time and sharing your thoughts. There ya go!
Hey guys, my name is Frank and i'm from Bermuda 🇧🇲 I love watching the fun house show and love all the other shows too Pete. I'm 56 years old and i love rock n roll. I live on an island where 95% of people listen to soca music, rap or reggae and i can't stand the first two and i don't mind the older reggae tunes from the 70's and 80's When i was 9 years old i heard the double platinum album by kiss and that was it, i fell in love with rock music and been like this ever since. I still have all my 700 plus vinyl in great shape i may add and still have about 3,000 cd's and still buy both. I'm like you pete i love stuff and i use all the stuff i got. I think i'm the only guy on this island that listens to this music and that's totally fine by me. Keep up the good work guys and pete keep up the amazing shows. Martin, amazing books my friend. Stay cool guys. Respect to you both.
Pete nailed this subject in a sense, describing what I call the " may fly effect" of artists creating music that more or less lives and dies in a very short space of time within the modern structure where everyone who chooses to can go down the musical wormhole and disappear within it. For me the traditional structure is still there, record labels still have a strong relevance in the industry, as for as I can see artists who make it big still go down that route, it's just that their very clever in using social media and streaming sites to reach a wider audience.
Peter makes a great point a long time ago you only had a couple choices but nowadays it's unlimited on what choices you can make and what kind of music you can get. Which always leads me back to the lyrics in the song Spirit of Radio by Rush where he sings: "Glittering prizes and endless compromises shatters the illusion of integrity"
Great episode. I just love hearing you guys talk. I'm agreeing with the "old man" stuff. Keep all of my Concert ticket. My first concert was Van Halen at the old Philadelphia Spectrum. Ticket Price - $10.00. We are all lucky that we grew up in the 70's/80's. Great times for music
The thing i love about the modern access is the availability of so much music that i would never heard .and yes the album concept has died down quite a bit ,but with bands having more control over production and recording ,you see better quality songs if they are going to release one song at a time ,it better be good .and yes you can pick and choose the songs off the albums and add them to a playlist ,but in the old days how many albums did you take a chance on or buy from your favorite artists ,were there was only one or two songs you liked ,and know you gotta store a whole album for 2 songs ,and how many songs were filler ,were now bands dont have to include less than good songs to fill an album.and for me i find new rock and metal almost every day ,i dont have to wait till my favorite bands finally make new music.its a great time to love music 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
" in the old days how many albums did you take a chance on or buy from your favorite artists ,were there was only one or two songs you liked ,and know you gotta store a whole album for 2 songs ,and how many songs were filler" Actually, very few.
Off topic but I got to thank Martin for is bill ward recommendations .I’ve only listened to 2015s accountable beasts but I’ve listened to it 2 or 3 times a day since Tuesday .it’s a 9 out of 10 for me it just sounds better and better after each listen I.will be checking is other albums out over the week,it’s a pity I can’t get a physical copy so CZcams will have to do for now.
My 2 cents... point of reference I'm 33.. I've notice how just about every younger coworker i have is one of those listen to anything type... no preference for genre, no favorite band or artist... usually only know the hits etc. It kinda makes me feel like I'm among the last of a dying breed... some of the best memories of my childhood were getting cds and immersing myself into it. The year I discovered Van Halen, I was 13, and each album was a monument for me... and I miss it! I find that when it comes to discovering new music, it has to be when I'm in the mood because of all the time I have for music, I still want time for my old favorites but I do get into Ruts where I feel the need to go find something new
Great topic thanks. I am getting back into vinyl. I live in Georgetown Ontario and a record store just opened up downtown. We spend Friday evenings talking about our favorite albums for hours with the owner and everyone who comes in. I am also noticing more younger people getting into bands like Maiden, Sabbath, Zeppelin, they stand around and love to hear about how us older guys got into bands an what our favorite albums are.
I still buy cd’s and vinyls, especially the stuff that record companies won’t allow some albums on iTunes or Spotify. I listen to all mediums. I’m actually thankful for Bluetooth - iTunes/Spotify/CZcams, for listening to music when I’m driving actually. I don’t have to worry about fiddling around with a cd or it skipping if I was to hit a bump. Annoyed me when stuff like that would happen.
More people need "more time" with the art of music. I still indulge in & believe the physical medium of music is so important! Although; @ least 50% of individuals don't care(unless it's the latest & greatest).... music's just a short soundtrack of the moment - a road trip, set the mood @ a gathering or just casual listening before bed/cleaning the house. They're missing the passion that a true music fan has. These are the guys & gals that make artists "real" $$$, aka: Concert tickets, memorabilia, etc. A VERY good topic & discussion Martin/Pete 👍.
I listen to a lot of different music, so if I have a playlists I try to seperate like - Not metal, thrash metal, Black/death metal, Grunge, Alternative, Doom/atmospheric, dark jazz and so on..all seperate list. I have problems to understand lists with different genres all over the place in one list, except stuff that is not metal because my taste when it comes to that is not so diverse. And I also play a lot of cds and lps, and cannot imagine a world without physical format. That a lot of (younger) people don`t care about that scars me a lot. Channels like SOT gives me hope
I myself have a situation that I usually like best the so called "deep cuts" than the popular songs of most of the bands, so I always have to listen to the whole discography to find out what I like, and some of the thousands bands have huge discographies.
Really fascinating conversation. Martin mentioned art - have you seen those compilation videos of famous artists you get on CZcams? Hundreds, many hundreds of paintings from really famous artists that you have never seen. To go through a famous artist's back catalog might take 45 minutes at 10 seconds each. Do you have time? Same with books - millions and millions of books, and many of them pretty good. People want to write and there aren't many of those granddad memoir books you used to get. With music, same again. What it basically costs you to write music nowadays is time - your time, so nothing out of pocket. Painting costs nothing, writing costs nothing, music costs nothing except for the instruments, many of which will be on one keyboard and sounding great. I haven't heard any decent sampling of guitars, but that may be why guitar music is out of fashion. So, what we are getting to is art produced as passion. You are probably not going to 'make it,' if you measure your success by music, fame etc., but you can produce some magic stuff for yourself of the 'Did I really write that?' variety. I can't say I'm complaining.
Tremendous show. Martin/ PETE. I did cut back a TON/ buying once Jenna entered college. However, I do pay like $14.68 for you tube premium music and like $12.79? For Amazon premium music. / to try and keep up on the never ending SOT homework. lol. So like $27/28 a month Thx guys 👍💯
I'd say that for anyone that is over 55 years old, that really loves music and is into lots of different genres, there is way too much music now. And it's inevitable - just the sheer number of artists that have made recordings in the last 70 years guarantees that. I acquired a whole load of albums between 2006 and 2010 and of them, I'd say that I know about 1/5 of them well, and I'd had a substantial collection prior to that. I decided in 2010 that I just wasn't going to look for new music any more. Most of the new stuff I've acquired since then have been singular songs. I listen to my albums on my ipod as I deliver papers in the morning or walk to and from work or the odd long journey. I'm too busy with living life and all that goes with it to put aside time to get to know albums the way I could between 1973 and 1992. And I'm a person that gets to know their music intimately {I'm 60} and I like many different genres. My favourite period is 1964-1983.
I'm forty-three years old, so wasn't around in the 70s, and was pretty young through the 80s, but I really don't miss the days when we all had to listen to radio. I do miss some things -- mostly college/campus radio, which was the only place where I could hear weird and interesting stuff that wasn't on the beaten path. All the commercial stations were very genre-segregated, and they all played the same stuff (within their respective boxes), over, and over, and over again. It was a very easy climate to get jaded in by the 90s, unless you went deep and into the underground. I think it can be overwhelming nowadays, sure, but it's better -- and you can participate or not as much as you want. A thing to keep in mind about nowadays I think is multiplicity -- there are simply many ways to accomplish things and everyone has their preference. Lots of people still listen to albums -- just not everyone. Then again, did they ever? I mean, back in the day you had all sorts of casual music fans who did nothing but listen to mainstream radio, commercials and all. COmmercials. That's another thing I don't miss at all. Also while it's theoretically easy to make music nowadays, it's still quite hard for a real band to do things DIY. You have to find a good place to record, invest in microphones, processors, and of course if you aren't a competent engineer already it takes you a lot longer to get things done. It's very different from someone in their bedroom just plugging in to their computer. Not that one way is necessarily better than another, but as a rock/metal fan I definitely have an affinity for the "real band in a room" approach.
"THE BiRTHDAY MASSACRE," a band I never heard, until I saw them with the Lacuna Coil tour at the Summit in Denver, is now a welcome addition to my music collection (I'm diggin Violet a lot). Live performances really influence me. I saw Deftones at the Red Rocks (99'-01') and they were not good (to me) and I never listened to them again. Sometimes it's just being lucky enough to hear a band that resonates with what one likes. I now have a handful of "TBM" albums/cd's and no Deftones albums. One live performance is sometimes all a band needs to make a connection with new fans.
It was hearing it on the radio, seeing it advertised in a record store, going to a concert or hearing about it from Dick Clark Casey Kasem Don Kirshner or Don Cornelius. Electronic media is convenient but will never substitute for the record on the platter.
I think we have a lot of music available these days. However, we can make our choice as was always the case I think. There are now many subgenres and groups of people who follow them as we do here. Pete, I have used the Chat AI (I teach English in Athens Greece) to write an essay by feeding certain parameters and it was astonishing how realistic it is. You can fairly say that we won't be able to distinguish if the authors, composers are real or not. These are peculiar times.
Great show i was a Minuteman fan and i have that same thing as Martin with the Firehouse and Firehose two completely different bands but sound the same. My habits have changed i don't buy physical mostly because vinyl prices are just too much for me. I just don't have the money for it. But I've discovered so much music i enjoy that id have turned my nose at in the past because I can check it out for basically free. My taste has expanded, i remember being a teenager and my friend had a dream of some technology that would make finding and listening to any band you wanted at the touch of a finger. One day years later he called me and told me to come to his house. This is when he showed me Napster and said remember my dream from middle school. Its advanced a thousand fold since Napster. This show reminded me of that old memory.
With all respect & admiration for the talent of Steve Lukather, he has been complaining about the state of music since the 90's, when he talked about alternative music. People need to remember that when rock & roll first happened, it was looked on w/disdain from the more established musical stars of the day. They also thought that Elvis or even the Beatles were just simplistic product. I'm pretty old & I'll admit I'm not in on anything "popular" but there is plenty of new music to enjoy. To each their own.
I was around 15 when the Internet got big in the late 90s. Going from a few CDs to a lot of mp3s changed everything. It became much easier to discover new music, especially melodic metal which was very unpopular back then. So far, so good. I found several bands that I consider my favourites today. I didn't like the feeling of listening to pirate mp3s, though. I slowly began to purchase CDs of the albums that I liked, and from there my collection started. Fast-forward a few years and the streaming services start to appear. Maybe out of pure stubbornness and pride in my collection, I refused to jump onto Spotify. It's a step I've yet to take, clinging on to the old ways of the album. Am I just being silly? I rip all my CDs so that I pretty much have a personal streaming service on the computer. As much as I enjoy full albums, I also love picking single songs just like back in the mp3 days. That said, I think that by sticking to physical media, I've avoided the worst music overdose. I find that it's getting more and more difficult to just sit down and listen to music with no distractions; I bought this nice stereo system which I hardly use - 99% of the music is played on the computer or in the car (which is a longer commute, perfect for full albums.) I have some ideas to address this, because it would be very nice to just let everything go while listening to a new album.
Why do you have to make things so difficult? Buy CD, rip CD. Instead of that you'd better simply download the same mp3 files from torrents. It's easy and free. No money spent, no time spent to rip CD's, someone has already done it for you! Just click on the band/album you like, and it's on your computer within few seconds! So much time saved for something really useful in your life.
@@tjsststsjsjyksjgksjysjs7633 Agreed but I like ripping my own files because I like to apply a couple of processes to it: LameXP to encode the file & MP3Gain to normalize the volume level (it's 'non-destructive' in that it writes its data to the file's tag data & can later be undone). Both are free to use. In relying on others for encoding you somewhat roll the dice. I've had really good luck with these two processes (at 320kbps)
Yes there's TONS of music now available in various ways (way too much for one person to possibly hear or even audition) but "too much"? To me that pre-supposes that the listener can't filter this stuff. That's probably true for some, or maybe even many, who just get overwhelmed by all of it. It does require one to put in the time/effort but frankly that's always been true even in the vinyl/cd days where you put in the time to listen to entire albums start-to-finish. Now more time gets spent on 'auditioning' different artists/albums (and individual songs), instead of deep-diving individual records. In other words I think listeners' time is getting reallocated differently in response to our changing listening habits. In the end I'd much rather have the current situation of too many choices & platforms for music than a handful of major record companies tightly controlling what gets released (only on physical media). You can always filter those zillions of options, but you can't create/listen to music out of thin air that doesn't exist. I will say that I'm not at all a fan of online streaming services (Pandora, Spotify, Deezer etc) that let you listen to music without owning it - I download all of my music from the internet after purchasing it. So for me web music services that cater to that (with free music previews) are invaluable & have replaced my need to own it on physical media...The 'career experimentation' discussed here - with the lower price of admission to get into music 'professionally' - to me is actually a good thing. More people getting the chance to record & release their music. Surely we've ended up discovering some major new talents that way (how 'bout all of the legendary stories of major record co's initially turning down acts like The Beatles - the pros don't always recognize future superstars). As far as 'gatekeeping' goes, I think the listeners should be that, not necessarily music critics or folks running these web streaming services creating their version of the 'Top 20'. Again that requires time/effort on the part of the listeners... I don't get hung up on music award shows at all - totally of no interest to me (I think much of it's political and/or some type of popularity contest)...I think what many seem to forget about with music streaming revenue (at least for legal streaming) is that someone - the artist themselves or more often the record company via their contract with the artists - have made the deal that pays companies/artists that 1/1,000th of a penny per stream (or whatever rate-YT Music seems to pay more than many others). It's not really those streamers ripping off the artists, it's more of the underlying deals that were made up front that allow those streamers to pay what they pay
I enjoyed reading these comments. 'Too much' music? Maybe. The conduits through which music can be found/heard/purchased have greatly increased. Couple this with the (arguable?) influx of artists getting their music out there nowadays, and it can all seem excessive. The most beautiful thing about all of this? Choice. Choices - lots of them! You can choose what you invest your resources (mainly time and money) in regarding music. I love the fact that I can now hear an album before deciding whether to buy it or not. Couldn't really do that back then. Music from nearly any period in time, genre, nation? Just a click away. Can all of this be overwhelming at times? Sure, but in a good way; it's what comes with being a music lover. Having so much on my plate, I don't think I'll ever be in danger of running out of things to discover, listen to, and love. In the end, I concur with your sentiments - I'd rather have all of these options at my disposal than not; For me, the pros far outweigh the cons.
Pete much like everything in 2023, as an old guy...lol...I miss everything about the way we grew up. I am your age and I used to spend hours in Belleville, NJ at an amazing place called Mickey's Music. I would go there and shoot the shit with the late Mick and Vic talking about the latest hard rock./hevey metal releases. They would play over their sound system something new that I asked. As I listened I would go to all the new releases and check them out, as well as pick up Kerrang magazine. I would spend $100-120 per week and leave with about 10-15 new cassette tapes or CD's. At one point, much like you I had over 20,000 selections & then NNJ was hit by a hurricane and I lost everything as my basement flooded with 10 feet of water and all of my music was destroyed. I was devastated. I didnt have the $ to replace it all, thus combined with the new way we consume music I was severely confused how to move forward. I miss those days and I hate the streaming thing today. Keep up the great podcast....love your shows.
This was awesome. Love you two just talking. Do this more, les structure just talking. Do it about culture, music and what. Doesn't have to about anything specific either, a go-with-the-flow kinda thing.
I think it's much easier now to exist in your own creative ecosystem now, gone is the mono culture where one artist or album or movie or tv show can dominate at one time, there's so much content out here now that
Played the first Steve Gibbons Band Polydor cassette this evening.A very nostalgic experience and the tape wasn’t chewed up! I’m a part time Keyboard player & Writer, who never made the big time,so Bandcamp is a useful platform for me to post old and new original music, predominantly for my own amazement! Maybe Quentin Tarrentino’s minion’s will discover me before I go into the old people’s home .. lol pigs might fly, but it’s out there in the ether!
First of all i do not do a stream at all and i never will.A physical medium is the only one capable of engaging a person emotionally, a stream cannot, because it has an expiration date like a tissue that you throw away after use, and the physical medium remains even when we are gone and someone else can discover what we once discovered and what we enjoyed.
This was a really insightful and interesting debate. There is still a market for SOT aligned music but that music is largely marketed at the traditional market (middle aged guys like us). There are some very good new young artists that need to find a younger market. Greta Van Fleet would be an example of a young band largely marketed at the traditional SOT audience. Make no mistake there are people who promote and influence across the industry and can get artists mainstream success. Irrespective of whether you like the music or not the Country scene has done a fantastic job in promoting country music to wider audience. In rock anything with an attitude or lifestyle (the outsider marketing to disenfranchised kids) is successful but limits itself to that market and thus never grows into a more mainstream product. Why is mainstream important? Because it provides gateways to other artists in certain genres and that is how a scene is created. What rock music needs is a young rock artist to get kids wanting to play guitars and put on a show. A world wide artist with underpinning classic rock credentials would make a massive difference. Will it happen? Only if the influencers believe there is money to be made. I think something will come along and refresh the appetite for rock music, but who, and when, I don't know.
I agree, it’s overwhelming how many options we have for music today! I think there will always be good new music being made but I also feel like music’s best days are behind it. Technology can help people make music more efficiently but I think it also allows shortcuts that disrupt the development of a musician in some ways.
Interesting topic! (much more interesting then the pomp rock show.. sorry!) I look forward to Fri. Morn. Funhouse every week! I have been looking for and grooving to obscure music for 45 years... In 1982 Wishbone Ash and Uriah Heep were fairly obscure and I remember writing logos for them on my HS notebooks! Everyone else listened to 80s crap (which I have learned is not to bad!) I started out listening to AoR like Foreigner and Journey. Styx got me interested in "prog". Then I became a total metal head, then I realized Mahavishnu Orchestra and King Crimson were mega-heavy and rocking and opened my mind to new genres I saw Miles on SNL in '82 and he blew my mind! Radio and music magazines (especially the old Rolling Stone) were how I often found out about great new music. Today I like SoT for music I know I'd like but haven't found CDs of (Like Wiccan and Blues Pills) Since the prog record store closed 5 years ago. I love TooYoob for letting me see and hear music I never heard of or got into... Like Gentle Giant! Since my wife died I started listening to radio again,,, (see what grief can do to you!) I have to give credit to WXRT for playing really good new music (Lord Huron, War on Drugs, WetLeg, Nathaniel Rateliff and the Nightsweats, Goose, etc (even though XRT is quite corporate and scripted... I love Hate/them!) I am still a rockin' metal head and love crazed stuff like "Agartha" and I think some so-called alternative rocks . I have eclectic tastes, (and am way more open minded than the me of 10 years ago!) . Sot is now my main route to new music! BTW I hear that Martin likes art! I am an abstract traditional artist! Art and music are my life! I H8 AI! BTW 2 The Warlocks (Rise and Fall) could be on the "FUZZ" show,, which is much fun.
When did we listen to music in the past? This is a good question. I don’t remember sitting and just listening back then much, although I know I did. I remember many social settings: parties, dances, roller skating, the beach, arcades, etc. Often when just doing stuff like showering, getting dressed, doing homework, etc. Pretty much always while driving, even with my parents. Today, I listen to a lot of news and podcasts, so I have to make a point to turn that stuff off and listen. I’ve got my vinyl set up now again, so during the weekends, I do enjoy putting on a few and just chilling with a cigar and a brew.
Greetings from Poughkeepsie. Anyone can release music today…which is both good and bad. I like all of the ways that I can consume music nowadays but it does seem like a lot at times, especially as a collector.
Technology has also lowered or removed many barriers that were in place back in the day. If they have the skills a band of musicians can put together an almost professional sounding album with a little more than a PC, some interfaces and a piece of software. In the '70s to get professional quality recordings you needed a studio. Not only for the skills (which are required to this day), but for the equipment.
This was such a great discussion. As a long time musician, it's nice to hear you guys echoing many of the same sentiments that I have shared with my close circle, as well as some points I hadn't thought about. Fantastic job, Pete and Martin.
Great topic, yes I still buy cds and last 3 years got back into vinyl after having lps back in the 80s and 90s, then moving to cds, but only getting my favourite hard rock/metal bands from 70s 80s and some 90s, while they are still around , but will always get the physical music not into Spotify, like to see and read what I am playing, admitting ly the text on cds and even some vinyl is too damn small to read, even if have 20 20 vision I am 65, but still live to crank it up. 🤘 oh and yes ticket prices are outrageous nowadays, not that get many HD HM bands coming to Perth.
I worked in college with teenagers and music is very much on the outside. It's no longer the main thing, gaming is the main thing followed by TV shows and films, music is after all that. Occasionally one track will sometimes come to the centre but it's not for long. They no longer go home and listen to music all night. It's heard through gaming or while doing something else. They can't just sit down and listen to an album or three and do nothing else, they have no attention span. The music lover that can do that is no longer the normal. They are now on the edge. Probably considered odd even. The concert might be sold out but it's more than half full of grey hair, no longer three quarters or more young folks. The numbers have changed. Times change but it's sad that music is no longer the leader. Gaming is the leader now and as been for a couple of generations now. I still go into the listening room and switch off for a couple of hours a day and just listen to an album all the way through. That used to be normal, most of my family think I'm a bit eccentric.
A great conversation lads, kinda makes me sad though..as a listener lately I’ve been buying lots of cds and still try to take time to listen , have an older car with cd player and usb. My vinyl from my youth collects dust in the basement. As an artist I love to write and record and I take all in stride. I put my music on Spotify and other streaming services, make cds because I love that physical thing,do my solo gigs here in beautiful Charlottetown, PEI, connect with tourist and hopefully some will enjoy my tunes, they’ll listen and share….it’s a money loosing proposition but a labor of love….so much to choose from now and you need to stay focused if you want to take the time to listen to music….the world sure is changing, AI is scary….take care lads and thanks for the great work you do…enjoy your days, enjoy your music……
you mentioned how the internet leads to weird sub genres…recently i stumbled on several all female, highly technical, Japanese Power Metal…including ones with gimmicks like “Band-Maid” where they shred wearing maid uniforms
This is an interesting discussion. I know that Joe Bonamassa created his own “record company” because he wasn’t getting any support by his label. He does his own promotion and gets all of the money.
He also fosters other artists on that label (J&R Adventures), like Black Country Communion & the excellent Beth Hart. I'm not a huge Bonamassa fan but that's commendable
I used to love going to the 2nd hand record shop in the mid late 70s, and buying a record by the cover or from a review in Sounds, or rarely on the radio.
I feel like listening to vinyl allows you to really listen to all the music because with digital you just get for a lack of a better term bored and by the end of a song I even like I am tempted to hit forward to the next song. It is part of our short attention span society. I think I appreciate the music more with vinyl.
It's got nothing to do with whether it's digital or vinyl. There are great songs in both mediums. There are also shitty ones in both. Just like there always was.
Because I appreciate the artistic value as a creator myself, I always want to buy physical copies. And I like having something for my money. Downloads aren't real to me. I also refuse to buy ebooks.
This is semi true. I have noticed a spike in interest in vinyl collecting. I think a 180 is occurring with the way music is appreciated. People understand the loss of integrity by technology with music. There’s a sense of nostalgia and I think people realize that music is not as authentic and brilliant as it once was. So I think we are seeing a turnaround.
Look at King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. They've put out twenty-four albums since 2012. Not to mention the five albums in2017 and 2022. It took Jethro Tull over fifty years to put out twenty-three studio albums.
I seem to lose my way with rock music in the 90’s. Over here in the UK we still had no decent radio stations. Grunge and Britpop ruled🤮. I never could find any decent new stuff and drifted into other genres and even began to like those I hated in the 80’s. It’s only now with the likes of this channel and a decent British rock radio station I discovering bands I missed out on
Similar experience to me, it feels like ‘someone’ in the UK decided that metal and hard rock was ‘unfashionable’ in the 1990s. I was an older teenager in that decade and you get influenced by your peers and mainstream culture, I found it very hard to keep up with the metal scene as it was pushed out of the mainstream. CZcams got me back into the metal and prog scenes and bands I truly like.
I don't think musicianship is as highly valued by people now. You can create your own music with software without being able to play a single instrument.
A good song is a good song, regardless of the genre. Old people like me (52yo) call the songs outside of our 'home genre' a guilty pleasure. For me, an example is 'Livin La Vida Loca' by Ricky Martin. Todays generation listen to good songs across all genres, they don't seem to have a 'home genre'. My daughter goes from singing Emimem to 'the Pina Colada Song' in 10 minutes.
Promotion also comes into this. If a record company puts massive promotion dollars behind pop acts like Taylor Swift or Ed Sheerin they will have product identification. Contemporary rock bands and solo artists would also achieve this if they were promoted as vigorously. It could be argued that the recording companies do not want to promote rock as it is not their business model. They have less control over artistic output than they do over commercial output. I am a physical media owner and advocate who does not enjoy downloaded music. But then again, I don't own or care less about autotuned pop either.
I just got back into buying physical media mainly cds i find i listen to alot more albums front to back compared to if i was on utube,guess its more of an appreciation and knowing thats the way the artist originally wanted you to listen to there album.Then again i buy alot of discogs,ebay,amazon Mostly all old stuff from 80,90s,early 2000 era.
First of all, technology (A.I. in this case) is great only if it makes peoples lives better, easier. Not worse in case of the arts, don't have A.I. dabbling into it, don't let it replace us, human beings! Not gonna happen! About current, new music new bands, there's so much great real bands who play their own original music out there in US, UK and everywhere really. Don't rely on the music industry anymore cuz they simply not registering, can't keep up with all what's great and worthwhile.. Great video! Instant like and share! Cheers, guys
Great conversation, gents! I'm a lifelong music fan and personally still buy physical copies of everything; not a download/spotify guy at all. That said, I don't necessarily think the the way things are going is bad or wrong; if other people don't want to buy records or CDs anymore, that's their prerogative. If the time comes where I have the option of owning a physical copy of an album that I want in my collection, then I might feel differently. But for now, we all have that option to download OR purchase a physical copy, and that's fine by me. As for Steve Lukather's comments ... I can respect his viewpoint, but he sort of comes across much the same way that a trained classical or jazz musician probably sounded at the dawn of rock & roll back in the 50s. "I've worked years to get this good at my craft and now these delinquents come along who can barely play and they're getting all this acclaim and airplay!!" I'm not saying it's an invalid viewpoint for Steve to feel that way, but it's just the cycle of things. There's always been one-hit wonders in popular music, dating as far back as you want to go. That isn't new ... and how long does it take to be labeled as such? Just because five years passes doesn't necessarily mean you can't have another hit during the sixth year. And getting into it just to be "famous" ... well, that's really just sour grapes, isn't it? How many hundreds of musicians from the "classic rock" era have said "we saw all of the girls screaming at The Beatles on Ed Sullivan and thought - that's the job for me?" Getting rich & famous has long been the motivation for people to become musicians, so I don't think that's a valid criticism of today's younger generation. But definitely a lot to unpack on this episode and a really good, thought-provoking conversation! Have a good weekend, Pete & Martin!
8:10 In his interview with Rick Beato, Ted Gioia said that music is not only a commodity but "merely a loss-leader to sell electronic devices". That said, there were times in the recent past when we welcomed new technology because albums were so expensive and there were so many damn middle-men. Turns out, those layers were adding value (e.g. album art, liner notes, etc). Random point: singles are prostituted into TV ads much quicker now, whereas there was once a decent amount of time before the "sell out", and before that, it was scandalous. Interesting discussion!
Love most of your shows and the discussion. Definitely the Deep Purple en Black Sabbath family tree discussions were entertaining. Love to hear your opinions on music genres that you may hate / dislike. Sometimes someone mentions grunge, but are there others? Where do you draw the line .... ?
Great conversation! Love hearing both your processes to discover new music. I do agree there is probably too much music coming out. Interestingly a new AI song generator came out this week called "Mubert", the claim is it doubled all the music that has ever been created (like 100 million songs). Who know? All I know it's completely nuts. I will stick with real musicians and more and more "older" greats, less and less do brand new releases mean much.
I'm OG in some way - i am . Remember time when i listened Iggy Pop " Brick by Brick " or "Appetite for Destruction " for months and months . Real question is next :" If we had what today kids have did we been the same ? " Or did great rock acts ever existed in such large numbers . Acts full of classic quality for decades . Gilmour and Watters played backgammon for years .Led Zeppelin have one of first video recorders and watched same movie for months . Today sport and games take 90 % of free time .
I think we can all agree on the fact that it was mainly the evolution in technology that has stripped music of pretty much all of its former relevance and glory. Hell, I used to love music, and I was just as thrilled as anybody when everything suddenly became way easier and cheaper to access. But looking back now, I wish there was a button I could press that froze the whole industry at the day before music could be shared in proper quality via the internet, cos I‘ve certainly grown tired of the fact that I can get everything I want without any major problems. I guess what I’m saying is, I am a spoiled wreck of a former music lover - but there’s just no going back. Yea, I‘ll keep downloading shit AND even buying vastly overpriced physical stuff, but mostly for compulsive completion purposes, not for reasons that have anything to do with passion. Sad, huh?
Personally, I can't do without a physical medium, vinyl records are the TOP. It's not just listening (hearing). I love old records, the smell is in the first place, an old record is like an old book, it smells so nice, then the touch when you turn the cover and finally comes the listening (hearing), Basically it's a whole package that streaming doesn't give us. Listening to physical media is a ritual, like making tea….
I used to feel EXACTLY like you (first about vinyl, then about cd's) but have since switched over to all-digital/mp3's via internet downloads a la carte...The main thing about that (for me) is that I'd NEVER be able to afford all of the great music out there if buying it all as physical media but now I can, that's huge. It took some doing on my part to get there though, it wasn't easy...
I listen to and find new music on places like Bandcamp, Spotify, Soundcloud, Tidal, and CZcams. If I really like a particular album or EP I'll buy the vinyl directly from the artist. Nowadays, if you solely rely on a format like commercial radio you'll pretty much never find anything decent, it also feeds into the idea that there's no good music anymore, an idea that's patently false.
@@wolf1977 I do both. We've had a long history of 2nd hand record shops here in London, so since the 70s, whatever I buy {LP, tape, CD, download} I always record it anyway {nowadays onto CD then transfer to ipod for listening} so I always have the physical copy as a back up.
So glad that Martin called out an important fact - people make art because they want to express themselves. Making a living/career out of that expression is a totally different thing. Some people are content doing a "real job" and making art (of any variety, not just music) in their spare time, and some people are so ruled by the need to express themselves that creating art is the only thing that provides them any personal satisfaction. The tools used to make art change, and the mechanisms of distribution change, but the need to create does not.
Great point, Reed.
There is a thriving home recording scene of people that will never make up to £100 or $100, but will continue to make music or videos because that is what they love to do.
Enjoyed this episode. one thing that resonates with me is back when I was collecting albums pre internet I used to buy and sit down with the album a number of times with no distractions and fully consume it. Nowdays with the internet and tech in general speeding the pace of life and info at warp speed at you I now still buy but then listen while doing whatever im up to at the time as well. I do miss the quiet time with new albums maybe it's time to go back to that and find that space of time again.
Another great discussion guys. As a younger viewer of 22, I'll add my perspective here...
I can't think of any friends or relatives of a similar age to me that really consider the album format anymore - apart from one other - and the key similarity between us is that we both collect physical product.
With Spotify and the other streaming services, I don't see any significant persuasion to indulge in music in the "old-fashioned" album way. The music is spoon-fed, either in a top 10 on the artist's page based on popularity, a Spotify-created "best of" from each artist, or in a playlist with similar other music included. With some artists, the albums can even be out of order or littered with 3-4 different remasters with different dates which makes it impossible to start without consulting Wikipedia. I agree that there is probably far too much out there and almost gives a feeling of where to start. However, I even feel that with the breadth of knowledge that Martin and Pete have on a significant range of artists!
I grew up with the album format, either with CDs, or my father's history of listening to rock music and the truly memorable album artwork. Unless you've been born into a family or another person who is already into music ("the album way"), then there are plenty of other entertainment means fighting for your attention these days. Social media, video games, and film - are all very accessible. This also creates shorter attention spans which doesn't lend itself to sitting down for 30-40-50 minutes (even longer if a double album) to listen to an album. Also, if you're streaming on Spotify, it's only a click away to skip the track you're listening to. Call it lazy, but at least with a CD or vinyl, you usually have to make some effort to get out of your seat and skip the track you're listening to, so you tend to just stick it out.
I do have a Spotify account and use it occasionally, and yes I do have a playlist of pretty much everything I like, but that's pretty much for tracking purposes only. All of my physical collection has been imported to iTunes and I have a similar playlist here, however, I also have a playlist by artist so I can sort things that way too. I too, like Pete, have an iPod classic but have had one of these from a young age. It's probably my most valued possession... In the car, I will usually tend to listen to the playlist of everything just for ease, but on the odd occasion, I will listen to a full album in the car. I'll usually leave the albums for when I go for a long walk.
The art of the album therefore for me is in the physical format. Take Queen as an example of a "legacy" band. Most of my friends have tracks like "Another One Bites The Dust", "Radio Ga-Ga" and "Bohemian Rhapsody" in their playlists, but would look at me blankly if I said these were tracks taken from 'The Game', 'The Works' and 'A Night At The Opera'. Maybe that recognition of what tracks appear on each album is just a 'nerdy' thing, as Pete mentioned, and perhaps always has been, but for me, context is a big thing with music and the periods of each band. But then, as previously, maybe this has always been a thing and not a new thing?
As for tracking, I use RateYourMusic to log albums I've listened to and rate them, and I've even organised my physical collection into albums I've listened to and those I haven't, just to make sure nothing is throwaway. But I'm naturally anal about all these things anyway. All of my physical collection is logged on Discogs, I log all my films on Letterboxd, all my video games on Backloggd, and all the books I read on Goodbooks. I guess for most people, any of these forms of entertainment are just that and nothing more and allows them to just relax and forget about the wider world. So as long as it sounds good, do they really care about listening to a full album?
Definitely food for thought, but it would be a certain shame to lose the album as an art form!
Beauty, thanks for that thorough perspective - love it. Yes, time for Spotify to fix being able to sort those catalogues out. That's why you need Wikipedia to help navigate a catalogue.
I miss those days of knowing an album was coming out on a Friday and you went to record store remember those days in the UK sometime queuing outside b4 store opened just to get on day of release
Same here, but also remember those same days when you'd read/hear about a new release you really wanted but couldn't find it (or it took forever to finally track down). That's the other side of it
I grew up in the 1980's and I can easily relate to this episode so well. I'm fortunate to be able to listen to music for hours each day. I drive for a living and listen to Spotify all day , then I go for a walk each day for an hour and listen to Spotify on my Bluetooth pocket size speaker and then I listen to music on Alexa when I'm home. The other times I listen to music is when I'm in the shower , working around the house , hanging out in the garage , ect. Rock and Metal my music of choice.
Used to be A thousand Bands competing for A Million Fans. Today thiers A Million Bands competing for A thousand Fans!!
Thank God for youtube and channels like what you guys feature. I've discovered so much great music I'd never hear on commercial radio.
God has nothing to do with this crap.
Sometimes I think I have too much music. It's hard to really get to know a new album when I have another ten behind it I need to listen to.
And there's so much out there. Bandcamp is an endless maze of new bands making new music.
👍
I have set a rule where I need to listen to a new CD three times before it goes into my collection ( got around eight thousand CDs ) because I want to feel like I have fully absorbed the music. Then, on to the next album. Now that doesn't mean I listen to the album back to back to back, I usually have nine or ten CDs in rotation, randomly listening to each one until ALL have been played three times. I currently have about a thousand CDs I have yet to listen to!
Why do you even need to listen to the new music?! There are tons of great music in the past which is head and shoulders above all this modern crap.
@@treff9226 how long does it take you to listen to all these albums?
3*10=30 albums. 1 album per day = 1 month approximately to end this cycle, right?
I have a similar rule for myself but I listen to one album more than three times, I'd say 5-6 times before I finally get through it and can say I've tasted it enough. But it takes too much time for me that's why I'm moving forward very slowly.
@@treff9226 And yet the vast majority of the music YOU listen to is crap.
I am totally with you guys... I used to know every song title on every album back in the 70s and 80s... these days, not so much... i think i knew more back then was because i had TIME to study these albums from A-Z... these days, not so much... even from my favorite bands... i have ONE positive thing today to say about the music industry is the resurgeance of vinyl (not the price though...) but i find myself listening more to full albums as opposed to the SKIP button i used often back in my CD and digital days...
Back in the day (80s for me), I didn’t have a lot of money to buy albums. So, several friends would each buy a album, we’d record it on a tape and give them to each other. Now, with Spotify or Apple Music, I have access to some much music that it can be intimidating.
I've always heard Martin say "you can't actually get heavier than [80s or 90s band]" and I'd always think to myself "just wait until he finally stumbles upon modern deathcore". I'm not even that into the genre, but I know those bands are heavy as fuck. It's fun to hear that Martin has indeed finally figured that out!
I miss the good old days spending hours record store hopping. We used to go downtown Toronto every Thursday to Sunday hitting not only the big shops but the Mom & Pop shop as well as the used record shops.
I remember going into record shops, looking for back catalogs of bands, and had to leave with something else, since "if it wasn't in the store, you'd need to special order through the store, and it might take weeks. I do enjoy the fact that a lot of the stuff we missed as kids is all now available, B-sides, rarities, etc.
Me too, a lot of music was just really hard to find on LP/cd back in the day
@@wolf1977 True. But what triumph if you found something you were hunting !
Miss the days when you'd buy an album and spend all day listening to it and reading ALL the info on the sleeve times change i guess
Another great show
Times changed? Wrong. Sounds like YOU changed.
The sillyness.
@@keisi1574 I would hope I have changed I'm 52 wouldn't wanna be same person I was as a teenager FFS
I`ve been a music junkie my whole life, and today it`s almost like an overdose. Because of things like CZcams, the streaming services, Bandcamp, Discogs, and the labels themselves, I have access to even the most obscure music literally right at my finger tips. Also all the information I might want on a band is easily available. Years ago it took a lot more effort and even some luck to stumble upon that really cool band. It`s a great time to be a music fan, no matter what your tastes are.
Ya we have access to Pete's catalog around the clock .
Playlists and no more skips
When you get anything you want without an effort the result loses its value so you don't get any excitement out of it, music becomes worthless.
Kinda how alot of people felt when Napster and lime wire wad around different time.
@@tjsststsjsjyksjgksjysjs7633 If I like the music, it`s not worthless.
@@jeffreyrobinson9120All this access, to all this music, and yet YOU still hang out on one turd- like you're a maggot going nowhere. 🤪
Just a thought, as a teen in the 80’s, we may have heard two or three cuts from a band’s new release but not the rest of the album. Take the Stones as an example, I was a big fan but my budget did not allow me to get all their albums for a really long time. Only knew whatever got played on radio. Also, a band like Iron Maiden NEVER got played on Rock radio. They put out so many great albums, but if you weren’t exposed through a friend… so many bands like this that I got into much later on. Budget for a teenager , accessibility, etc, all factors.
Oh boy, don’t get me started. I’m talking from a U.K. perspective here.
1. The most important thing when it comes to music is having the listener’s attention. In 1971 (the high point of rock music, as any fule no) the average music lover aged 21 or so would have a handful of LPs and a greater number of 45s. Someone with a big record collection might have 50 LPs. Consequently they were poured over, loved, worshiped. People memorised the liner notes.
2. Record companies played an essential role in bringing the music to the public. They weren’t the blood-sucking leeches everyone goes on about, as proven by how music turned to shit once they all started disappearing.
3. Back then it was possible to really have a handle on the music scene as a whole across pop, rock, jazz, soul etc. A fraction of the amount of music released today was issued back then and it was all the better for it.
4. The ever-increasing number of genres is pointless and really, really boring. If you played your average person in the street a death metal group, a black metal one, a doom metal one, they would struggle to tell the difference. Being that anal about genres is so people can distinguish between music that basically sounds very similar.
5. There is way, way, way too much music out there. Who needs 4000 death metal bands? 2000 K Pop groups? 10,000 EDM acts? There is an enormous surplus of STUFF that no one really needs and no one really cares about. The best thing for the music industry would be for 90% of the deeply average landfill out there to disappear overnight.
6. God I’m old. But I tell you what, I’m not entirely wrong.
"Who needs 4000 death metal bands?" That's the point. Who needs 100.000 metal bands in general no matter what metal genre? It's the Warhol thing of being famous at least for 5 minutes. All these bands want to be famous and make money, but people don't have enough money to buy all the stuff (besides having all these bands, "the 4000 death metal bands and the like" that are fundamentally the same). There's too many people on the planet and there's too many of them wanting to become "somebody". Are we getting old and maybe grumpy? Yes, we are. But facts are facts. The market is oversaturated. Cheers!
All great points. I can’t argue with any of them. I’m an older guy. I appreciated music more back in the 70s when album releases were bigger events because there wasn’t so much music out there. Your comment about reading the liner notes struck me. I always used to read the liner notes while listening to an album for the first time. I never read them anymore. I just don’t care. I probably have too much music although I have music playing almost nonstop at home. As much as I love SoT, a part of me really doesn’t want to discover new music because there’s just too much to try and get into and I still love the music I already own and that’s probably enough for this lifetime.
I like this term to describe our media exposition up to the late '90s, that I read recently : "monoculture".
We were all "fed" the same bands via radio, Spin/Rolling Stones and MTV. Everybody's eyes and ears were directed at the same place. There was this media funnel and we were all under it.
Whereas today our attention is so much more fragmented.
Living in Los Angeles, we had the giant billboards on Sunset Blvd, that would advertised the new albums that were coming out.
And the billboards outside Tower Records...
the new version of trying to “ban used albums “ is the army of legacy bands like the Eagles who block people sharing their videos (even if they’d get all or a cut” on CZcams, etc
They can’t take the money with them
I have to say Friday Funhouse is my favorite show on the channel. Intelligent, passionate discussion about my biggest passion MUSIC. I have been turned onto some amazing bands and I thank the both of you for that, Keep it up!!!!
The discussion from Martin and Pete is so interesting as always, but I found myself extra motivated to speak about the question Pete brought up at 41:48. I just recently resigned from my job at age 52 because of the ridiculous amount of stress. I've got a decent amount in my 401K, and I've got a nice chunk in savings. In no way am I able to just say fuck it and live off of anything. Having said that, I'm taking a couple two to three weeks off to just relax and not stress. I might take a job with far less responsibilities and pressure, or I might reenter the fray that has been my life for more than half of it. There's always this talk amongst my friends about the race to retirement and how we're going to enjoy all that, even though we aren't assured of jack shit in life. Sadly, my mother had a whole year of enjoying retirement with her husband before a rare neurological disease struck her down and made her last 9 years on Earth a nightmare.
To, Pete's question. I went to see Death Angel in Pittsburgh, PA a little over a month ago. My brother and I traveled from Indianapolis the day of the concert and drove back the next day. Unfortunately, I had to work the following day, so it wasn't quite the getaway that I wanted. Having said that, I had a scheduled 9-day vacation about five days later. Death Angel are a band which has to tour to make the money they need to live what I would call a middle-class lifestyle for some of their members. Maybe this isn't the case with Will and Damian, but I don't know for sure. I'm sure they have stuff on the side between making records and downtime from touring. Rob Cavestany might be the only one who has a bit of security. That's pure speculation on my part. Having said all this, if there are members who just get by, one would never know it by the fun they have on the stage. This gig was at the end of a long tour, yet their faces and general disposition were that of "we wouldn't want to be doing anything else with our lives." When I see this, it does one of two things for me; it makes me happy for them and it reminds me of that fabulous part in "Almost Famous" where Russell and William are in Kansas and the locals pull up and ask Russell if he wants to party with some "real" people from Topeka? They do and it's one of the most fun genuine scenes of any movie ever. Russell then takes the "real" line and runs with it while tens of people are listening to his every word in the bedroom. Those people in that scene, idolize the fuck out of him BECAUSE he doesn't have to answer to the 9 to 5 or much more of the bullshit that is life, like most in this country or world. It doesn't matter that Russell might have his own problems or worries, because his answer, like so many real-life musicians is the answer to Pete's question at 41:48. They don't want to deal with the 9 to 5 or what might be worse.
When I go to a concert such as I did with Death Angel, I viewed that experience as "real" and I think everyone else felt that same way. That bit of escapism of a show is the best drug in the whole world and that's why they choose this path.
We should talk.....
This is a great episode. I definitely have more music in my collection (both physical media and digital) that I can listen to in my lifetime; it makes choosing what to play challenging, on a regular basis. To make matters more interesting, I'm one of those listeners that continually picks up favorites over my lifetime.... I love what I listened to as a kid right alongside artists I've discovered in the last 15 years. Nothing's really fallen off (with an exception or two). It's often very overwhelming!!
The hardest thing about these musical times for me is that the desire to hear it all and pay attention to it can not be fulfilled. The curiousity is still there but time is getting less and less.
Another great show, gentlemen! As an aging Gen X guy (50 this year) who still has a youthful spirit, I have one foot in the past, and one very much in the present. I'm still a physical media person and still buy CDs. There is simply no room in my apartment for a large record collection anymore, but I love physical media, so it's CDs for me. I also still listen to albums *as* albums, first track to the last, so in certain ways, I am "stuck in the past."
However, I'm also still very curious about new music, and excited to discover new bands and artists that I may well love-- and there is *so much great new music* out there, right now, so why should I stay "stuck in the past," in *that* sense, only, or mostly, listening to the classics that I already know and love? I may be 50, but I'm *not even close* to giving up on new music, and in that sense, SOT has been a godsend over the last few years, in pointing me to great newer bands, *and* great older bands that I just missed out on, back when they were originally releasing albums.
In that latter vein, I was five years old in '78, and just getting into rock music, and in the small Alabama town where I lived at the time, there was almost no way that I could have found out about the band, Trillion, and their fantastic self-titled '78 debut album. However, thanks to SOT's recent, very informative, show on pomp rock, I now own a reissue of this album on CD (with cool new liner notes, and vintage notes on the band, and photos too,) and I will be happily listening to it over and over, first track to last! 🙂 I also bought Trillion's second album, "Clear Approach," on CD too, and can't wait to hear it, along with other pomp rock CDs bought at the same time, inspired by that SOT show. I'm already looking forward to getting some new prog albums too, from Pete and Ken's new show, but that will have to wait until next month, as I've already spent so much money on music this month! I miss the music magazines that I used to voraciously read in the '80s and '90s to learn about new music, but SOT is greatly helping to fill in that gap!
Another aging Xer here! I totally agree with you, somehow I managed to keep my records too.. Pete and SoT are my main intro to new music! It's just there are no record stores to purchase them from... I don't like on-line ordering. Amazon has given me a hard time! Thanks to the TooYoob!
@@SD9xcp311x Thanks for the comment! SOT is my main place to learn about new music, these days, too. I also hear you, 100%, on missing actual record stores where we could buy new music. Some of my best friendships, over the years, were made in those stores. I spent *so many hours* in record stores in the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s, and now, with the exception of used record stores, there is literally no place of business to buy music in physical media form, in my area, anymore. I would rather buy CDs from a physical store, partially to support local businesses, but since that's not an option for me anymore, I buy online. I can't stand Amazon though, and I try to avoid it as much as possible. My three favorite sites for buying music online are Ken Golden's Laser's Edge, Bull Moose, and Collector's Choice Music. Between those three sites, I can usually find *almost* any album on CD that is recommended on SOT, and with better service, and often, better pricing and packaging (more careful shipping, to avoid damages), than I've encountered with Amazon.
@@christianman73 Yes! I do want to order from Ken Golden's Laser's Edge! He is a cool supporter of the site... Lately I have found some cool stuff from the Disc Replay.. just picked up "Warchild" today for 4.99!
When you think about all music being so accessible today, you can't help but admire people like Mick Jagger, Robert Plant and John Lennon when they were young in post-war Britain. The process of them just being able to FIND the American Blues and early Rock 'N' Roll records that inspired them was a journey unto itself. They would have to search high and low, even going so far as looking on the black market. They knew what it meant to treasure music and art.
@raymondcarver476 It works both ways. I used to love travelling all over the country, checking out albums in second hand stores, picking selections of artists I'd never heard of, without having heard the music.
Then when the internet happened, it was great listening to 30 second snatches of an artist or song from the comfort of my front room, then buying the LP or CD.
A retired music industry attorney with "name" clients told me that the recording industry ceased to be economically viable in 1982 but was given a decade and a half life extension by MTV and CDs.
Popoff and Pardo are it again and discussing the length and breadth of the music business, its artists and - for lack of a better word - its product. Being older than other of the speakers and being one of the old guys mentioned by Martin as "...back in my day it was all rock...", this was interesting hearing these two not quite in the generation below mine but at least a decade younger talking about what was, what is, and what will be in this topic. Particularly enjoyed the consideration of AI in this discussion since it is currently a topic great personal interest and continue to believe that most of us are unable to imagine how far reaching and changing AI may be in the music field and elsewhere. While on the beach with my nephew a couple of weeks back, he created three items of art in just a few minutes using his cellphone and brief narrative of what each piece should include or represent and a few other parameters. The results were astonishing in the speed created and the quality of such a quick design. Just a fascinating hour or so, gents. As always, thanks for your time and sharing your thoughts. There ya go!
Hey guys, my name is Frank and i'm from Bermuda 🇧🇲
I love watching the fun house show and love all the other shows too Pete. I'm 56 years old and i love rock n roll. I live on an island where 95% of people listen to soca music, rap or reggae and i can't stand the first two and i don't mind the older reggae tunes from the 70's and 80's
When i was 9 years old i heard the double platinum album by kiss and that was it, i fell in love with rock music and been like this ever since. I still have all my 700 plus vinyl in great shape i may add and still have about 3,000 cd's and still buy both. I'm like you pete i love stuff and i use all the stuff i got. I think i'm the only guy on this island that listens to this music and that's totally fine by me. Keep up the good work guys and pete keep up the amazing shows. Martin, amazing books my friend. Stay cool guys. Respect to you both.
Pete nailed this subject in a sense, describing what I call the " may fly effect" of artists creating music that more or less lives and dies in a very short space of time within the modern structure where everyone who chooses to can go down the musical wormhole and disappear within it.
For me the traditional structure is still there, record labels still have a strong relevance in the industry, as for as I can see artists who make it big still go down that route, it's just that their very clever in using social media and streaming sites to reach a wider audience.
Even people that have huge music collections I would assume they still have a core dozen albums or so that they listen to most.
Your so right I have over 1000 cds but at least 900 I’d never play again
Peter makes a great point a long time ago you only had a couple choices but nowadays it's unlimited on what choices you can make and what kind of music you can get. Which always leads me back to the lyrics in the song Spirit of Radio by Rush where he sings:
"Glittering prizes and endless compromises shatters the illusion of integrity"
Great episode. I just love hearing you guys talk. I'm agreeing with the "old man" stuff. Keep all of my Concert ticket. My first concert was Van Halen at the old Philadelphia Spectrum. Ticket Price - $10.00. We are all lucky that we grew up in the 70's/80's. Great times for music
I often rely on SoT to expose me to bands I haven’t listened to before :)
Came for the weather report, stayed for the topic
The thing i love about the modern access is the availability of so much music that i would never heard .and yes the album concept has died down quite a bit ,but with bands having more control over production and recording ,you see better quality songs if they are going to release one song at a time ,it better be good .and yes you can pick and choose the songs off the albums and add them to a playlist ,but in the old days how many albums did you take a chance on or buy from your favorite artists ,were there was only one or two songs you liked ,and know you gotta store a whole album for 2 songs ,and how many songs were filler ,were now bands dont have to include less than good songs to fill an album.and for me i find new rock and metal almost every day ,i dont have to wait till my favorite bands finally make new music.its a great time to love music 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
" in the old days how many albums did you take a chance on or buy from your favorite artists ,were there was only one or two songs you liked ,and know you gotta store a whole album for 2 songs ,and how many songs were filler"
Actually, very few.
Off topic but I got to thank Martin for is bill ward recommendations .I’ve only listened to 2015s accountable beasts but I’ve listened to it 2 or 3 times a day since Tuesday .it’s a 9 out of 10 for me it just sounds better and better after each listen I.will be checking is other albums out over the week,it’s a pity I can’t get a physical copy so CZcams will have to do for now.
Victory!
My 2 cents... point of reference I'm 33..
I've notice how just about every younger coworker i have is one of those listen to anything type... no preference for genre, no favorite band or artist... usually only know the hits etc. It kinda makes me feel like I'm among the last of a dying breed... some of the best memories of my childhood were getting cds and immersing myself into it. The year I discovered Van Halen, I was 13, and each album was a monument for me... and I miss it!
I find that when it comes to discovering new music, it has to be when I'm in the mood because of all the time I have for music, I still want time for my old favorites but I do get into Ruts where I feel the need to go find something new
Great topic thanks. I am getting back into vinyl. I live in Georgetown Ontario and a record store just opened up downtown. We spend Friday evenings talking about our favorite albums for hours with the owner and everyone who comes in. I am also noticing more younger people getting into bands like Maiden, Sabbath, Zeppelin, they stand around and love to hear about how us older guys got into bands an what our favorite albums are.
I still buy cd’s and vinyls, especially the stuff that record companies won’t allow some albums on iTunes or Spotify. I listen to all mediums. I’m actually thankful for Bluetooth - iTunes/Spotify/CZcams, for listening to music when I’m driving actually. I don’t have to worry about fiddling around with a cd or it skipping if I was to hit a bump. Annoyed me when stuff like that would happen.
Personally, I liked the days of just record stores and radio. Videos were the start of the downward slide for me.
Interesting stuff, guys.
Enjoy and appreciate these Friday shows.
👍🤘
More people need "more time" with the art of music. I still indulge in & believe the physical medium of music is so important! Although; @ least 50% of individuals don't care(unless it's the latest & greatest).... music's just a short soundtrack of the moment - a road trip, set the mood @ a gathering or just casual listening before bed/cleaning the house. They're missing the passion that a true music fan has. These are the guys & gals that make artists "real" $$$, aka: Concert tickets, memorabilia, etc. A VERY good topic & discussion Martin/Pete 👍.
I listen to a lot of different music, so if I have a playlists I try to seperate like - Not metal, thrash metal, Black/death metal, Grunge, Alternative, Doom/atmospheric, dark jazz and so on..all seperate list. I have problems to understand lists with different genres all over the place in one list, except stuff that is not metal because my taste when it comes to that is not so diverse. And I also play a lot of cds and lps, and cannot imagine a world without physical format. That a lot of (younger) people don`t care about that scars me a lot. Channels like SOT gives me hope
I myself have a situation that I usually like best the so called "deep cuts" than the popular songs of most of the bands, so I always have to listen to the whole discography to find out what I like, and some of the thousands bands have huge discographies.
Really fascinating conversation. Martin mentioned art - have you seen those compilation videos of famous artists you get on CZcams? Hundreds, many hundreds of paintings from really famous artists that you have never seen. To go through a famous artist's back catalog might take 45 minutes at 10 seconds each. Do you have time?
Same with books - millions and millions of books, and many of them pretty good. People want to write and there aren't many of those granddad memoir books you used to get.
With music, same again. What it basically costs you to write music nowadays is time - your time, so nothing out of pocket. Painting costs nothing, writing costs nothing, music costs nothing except for the instruments, many of which will be on one keyboard and sounding great. I haven't heard any decent sampling of guitars, but that may be why guitar music is out of fashion.
So, what we are getting to is art produced as passion. You are probably not going to 'make it,' if you measure your success by music, fame etc., but you can produce some magic stuff for yourself of the 'Did I really write that?' variety.
I can't say I'm complaining.
Tremendous show. Martin/ PETE. I did cut back a TON/ buying once Jenna entered college. However, I do pay like $14.68 for you tube premium music and like $12.79? For Amazon premium music. / to try and keep up on the never ending SOT homework. lol. So like $27/28 a month Thx guys 👍💯
Your still supporting music gary that’s all that matters but when I see cds for over 12 bucks if it’s not fantastic why buy it
I'd say that for anyone that is over 55 years old, that really loves music and is into lots of different genres, there is way too much music now. And it's inevitable - just the sheer number of artists that have made recordings in the last 70 years guarantees that.
I acquired a whole load of albums between 2006 and 2010 and of them, I'd say that I know about 1/5 of them well, and I'd had a substantial collection prior to that. I decided in 2010 that I just wasn't going to look for new music any more. Most of the new stuff I've acquired since then have been singular songs.
I listen to my albums on my ipod as I deliver papers in the morning or walk to and from work or the odd long journey. I'm too busy with living life and all that goes with it to put aside time to get to know albums the way I could between 1973 and 1992. And I'm a person that gets to know their music intimately {I'm 60} and I like many different genres.
My favourite period is 1964-1983.
I'm forty-three years old, so wasn't around in the 70s, and was pretty young through the 80s, but I really don't miss the days when we all had to listen to radio. I do miss some things -- mostly college/campus radio, which was the only place where I could hear weird and interesting stuff that wasn't on the beaten path. All the commercial stations were very genre-segregated, and they all played the same stuff (within their respective boxes), over, and over, and over again. It was a very easy climate to get jaded in by the 90s, unless you went deep and into the underground. I think it can be overwhelming nowadays, sure, but it's better -- and you can participate or not as much as you want. A thing to keep in mind about nowadays I think is multiplicity -- there are simply many ways to accomplish things and everyone has their preference. Lots of people still listen to albums -- just not everyone. Then again, did they ever? I mean, back in the day you had all sorts of casual music fans who did nothing but listen to mainstream radio, commercials and all. COmmercials. That's another thing I don't miss at all.
Also while it's theoretically easy to make music nowadays, it's still quite hard for a real band to do things DIY. You have to find a good place to record, invest in microphones, processors, and of course if you aren't a competent engineer already it takes you a lot longer to get things done. It's very different from someone in their bedroom just plugging in to their computer. Not that one way is necessarily better than another, but as a rock/metal fan I definitely have an affinity for the "real band in a room" approach.
"THE BiRTHDAY MASSACRE," a band I never heard, until I saw them with the Lacuna Coil tour at the Summit in Denver, is now a welcome addition to my music collection (I'm diggin Violet a lot). Live performances really influence me. I saw Deftones at the Red Rocks (99'-01') and they were not good (to me) and I never listened to them again. Sometimes it's just being lucky enough to hear a band that resonates with what one likes. I now have a handful of "TBM" albums/cd's and no Deftones albums. One live performance is sometimes all a band needs to make a connection with new fans.
Always loved Birthday Massacre, great band!
It was hearing it on the radio, seeing it advertised in a record store, going to a concert or hearing about it from Dick Clark Casey Kasem Don Kirshner or Don Cornelius. Electronic media is convenient but will never substitute for the record on the platter.
I think we have a lot of music available these days. However, we can make our choice as was always the case I think. There are now many subgenres and groups of people who follow them as we do here. Pete, I have used the Chat AI (I teach English in Athens Greece) to write an essay by feeding certain parameters and it was astonishing how realistic it is. You can fairly say that we won't be able to distinguish if the authors, composers are real or not. These are peculiar times.
Great show i was a Minuteman fan and i have that same thing as Martin with the Firehouse and Firehose two completely different bands but sound the same. My habits have changed i don't buy physical mostly because vinyl prices are just too much for me. I just don't have the money for it. But I've discovered so much music i enjoy that id have turned my nose at in the past because I can check it out for basically free. My taste has expanded, i remember being a teenager and my friend had a dream of some technology that would make finding and listening to any band you wanted at the touch of a finger. One day years later he called me and told me to come to his house. This is when he showed me Napster and said remember my dream from middle school. Its advanced a thousand fold since Napster. This show reminded me of that old memory.
i can’t afford to go to a live tour…nearest big towns they come to around here is 200 miles…then you need gas, a motel, $15 beer, meals , etc
With all respect & admiration for the talent of Steve Lukather, he has been complaining about the state of music since the 90's, when he talked about alternative music. People need to remember that when rock & roll first happened, it was looked on w/disdain from the more established musical stars of the day. They also thought that Elvis or even the Beatles were just simplistic product. I'm pretty old & I'll admit I'm not in on anything "popular" but there is plenty of new music to enjoy. To each their own.
Amazing conversation!
I was around 15 when the Internet got big in the late 90s. Going from a few CDs to a lot of mp3s changed everything. It became much easier to discover new music, especially melodic metal which was very unpopular back then. So far, so good. I found several bands that I consider my favourites today. I didn't like the feeling of listening to pirate mp3s, though. I slowly began to purchase CDs of the albums that I liked, and from there my collection started. Fast-forward a few years and the streaming services start to appear. Maybe out of pure stubbornness and pride in my collection, I refused to jump onto Spotify. It's a step I've yet to take, clinging on to the old ways of the album. Am I just being silly? I rip all my CDs so that I pretty much have a personal streaming service on the computer. As much as I enjoy full albums, I also love picking single songs just like back in the mp3 days. That said, I think that by sticking to physical media, I've avoided the worst music overdose.
I find that it's getting more and more difficult to just sit down and listen to music with no distractions; I bought this nice stereo system which I hardly use - 99% of the music is played on the computer or in the car (which is a longer commute, perfect for full albums.) I have some ideas to address this, because it would be very nice to just let everything go while listening to a new album.
Why do you have to make things so difficult? Buy CD, rip CD. Instead of that you'd better simply download the same mp3 files from torrents. It's easy and free. No money spent, no time spent to rip CD's, someone has already done it for you! Just click on the band/album you like, and it's on your computer within few seconds! So much time saved for something really useful in your life.
@@tjsststsjsjyksjgksjysjs7633 Agreed but I like ripping my own files because I like to apply a couple of processes to it: LameXP to encode the file & MP3Gain to normalize the volume level (it's 'non-destructive' in that it writes its data to the file's tag data & can later be undone). Both are free to use. In relying on others for encoding you somewhat roll the dice. I've had really good luck with these two processes (at 320kbps)
Yes there's TONS of music now available in various ways (way too much for one person to possibly hear or even audition) but "too much"? To me that pre-supposes that the listener can't filter this stuff. That's probably true for some, or maybe even many, who just get overwhelmed by all of it. It does require one to put in the time/effort but frankly that's always been true even in the vinyl/cd days where you put in the time to listen to entire albums start-to-finish. Now more time gets spent on 'auditioning' different artists/albums (and individual songs), instead of deep-diving individual records. In other words I think listeners' time is getting reallocated differently in response to our changing listening habits.
In the end I'd much rather have the current situation of too many choices & platforms for music than a handful of major record companies tightly controlling what gets released (only on physical media). You can always filter those zillions of options, but you can't create/listen to music out of thin air that doesn't exist. I will say that I'm not at all a fan of online streaming services (Pandora, Spotify, Deezer etc) that let you listen to music without owning it - I download all of my music from the internet after purchasing it. So for me web music services that cater to that (with free music previews) are invaluable & have replaced my need to own it on physical media...The 'career experimentation' discussed here - with the lower price of admission to get into music 'professionally' - to me is actually a good thing. More people getting the chance to record & release their music. Surely we've ended up discovering some major new talents that way (how 'bout all of the legendary stories of major record co's initially turning down acts like The Beatles - the pros don't always recognize future superstars). As far as 'gatekeeping' goes, I think the listeners should be that, not necessarily music critics or folks running these web streaming services creating their version of the 'Top 20'. Again that requires time/effort on the part of the listeners...
I don't get hung up on music award shows at all - totally of no interest to me (I think much of it's political and/or some type of popularity contest)...I think what many seem to forget about with music streaming revenue (at least for legal streaming) is that someone - the artist themselves or more often the record company via their contract with the artists - have made the deal that pays companies/artists that 1/1,000th of a penny per stream (or whatever rate-YT Music seems to pay more than many others). It's not really those streamers ripping off the artists, it's more of the underlying deals that were made up front that allow those streamers to pay what they pay
I enjoyed reading these comments. 'Too much' music? Maybe. The conduits through which music can be found/heard/purchased have greatly increased. Couple this with the (arguable?) influx of artists getting their music out there nowadays, and it can all seem excessive. The most beautiful thing about all of this? Choice. Choices - lots of them! You can choose what you invest your resources (mainly time and money) in regarding music. I love the fact that I can now hear an album before deciding whether to buy it or not. Couldn't really do that back then. Music from nearly any period in time, genre, nation? Just a click away. Can all of this be overwhelming at times? Sure, but in a good way; it's what comes with being a music lover. Having so much on my plate, I don't think I'll ever be in danger of running out of things to discover, listen to, and love. In the end, I concur with your sentiments - I'd rather have all of these options at my disposal than not; For me, the pros far outweigh the cons.
Pete much like everything in 2023, as an old guy...lol...I miss everything about the way we grew up. I am your age and I used to spend hours in Belleville, NJ at an amazing place called Mickey's Music. I would go there and shoot the shit with the late Mick and Vic talking about the latest hard rock./hevey metal releases. They would play over their sound system something new that I asked. As I listened I would go to all the new releases and check them out, as well as pick up Kerrang magazine. I would spend $100-120 per week and leave with about 10-15 new cassette tapes or CD's. At one point, much like you I had over 20,000 selections & then NNJ was hit by a hurricane and I lost everything as my basement flooded with 10 feet of water and all of my music was destroyed. I was devastated. I didnt have the $ to replace it all, thus combined with the new way we consume music I was severely confused how to move forward. I miss those days and I hate the streaming thing today. Keep up the great podcast....love your shows.
This was awesome. Love you two just talking. Do this more, les structure just talking. Do it about culture, music and what. Doesn't have to about anything specific either, a go-with-the-flow kinda thing.
I think it's much easier now to exist in your own creative ecosystem now, gone is the mono culture where one artist or album or movie or tv show can dominate at one time, there's so much content out here now that
my head was exploding during this relevant and relatable discussion...interesting times.
Played the first Steve Gibbons Band Polydor cassette this evening.A very nostalgic experience and the tape wasn’t chewed up! I’m a part time Keyboard player & Writer, who never made the big time,so Bandcamp is a useful platform for me to post old and new original music, predominantly for my own amazement! Maybe Quentin Tarrentino’s minion’s will discover me before I go into the old people’s home .. lol pigs might fly, but it’s out there in the ether!
First of all i do not do a stream at all and i never will.A physical medium is the only one capable of engaging a person emotionally, a stream cannot, because it has an expiration date like a tissue that you throw away after use, and the physical medium remains even when we are gone and someone else can discover what we once discovered and what we enjoyed.
This was a really insightful and interesting debate. There is still a market for SOT aligned music but that music is largely marketed at the traditional market (middle aged guys like us). There are some very good new young artists that need to find a younger market. Greta Van Fleet would be an example of a young band largely marketed at the traditional SOT audience. Make no mistake there are people who promote and influence across the industry and can get artists mainstream success. Irrespective of whether you like the music or not the Country scene has done a fantastic job in promoting country music to wider audience. In rock anything with an attitude or lifestyle (the outsider marketing to disenfranchised kids) is successful but limits itself to that market and thus never grows into a more mainstream product. Why is mainstream important? Because it provides gateways to other artists in certain genres and that is how a scene is created. What rock music needs is a young rock artist to get kids wanting to play guitars and put on a show. A world wide artist with underpinning classic rock credentials would make a massive difference. Will it happen? Only if the influencers believe there is money to be made. I think something will come along and refresh the appetite for rock music, but who, and when, I don't know.
I agree, it’s overwhelming how many options we have for music today! I think there will always be good new music being made but I also feel like music’s best days are behind it.
Technology can help people make music more efficiently but I think it also allows shortcuts that disrupt the development of a musician in some ways.
Interesting topic! (much more interesting then the pomp rock show.. sorry!) I look forward to Fri. Morn. Funhouse every week! I have been looking for and grooving to obscure music for 45 years... In 1982 Wishbone Ash and Uriah Heep were fairly obscure and I remember writing logos for them on my HS notebooks! Everyone else listened to 80s crap (which I have learned is not to bad!) I started out listening to AoR like Foreigner and Journey. Styx got me interested in "prog". Then I became a total metal head, then I realized Mahavishnu Orchestra and King Crimson were mega-heavy and rocking and opened my mind to new genres I saw Miles on SNL in '82 and he blew my mind! Radio and music magazines (especially the old Rolling Stone) were how I often found out about great new music. Today I like SoT for music I know I'd like but haven't found CDs of (Like Wiccan and Blues Pills) Since the prog record store closed 5 years ago. I love TooYoob for letting me see and hear music I never heard of or got into... Like Gentle Giant!
Since my wife died I started listening to radio again,,, (see what grief can do to you!) I have to give credit to WXRT for playing really good new music (Lord Huron, War on Drugs, WetLeg, Nathaniel Rateliff and the Nightsweats, Goose, etc (even though XRT is quite corporate and scripted... I love Hate/them!) I am still a rockin' metal head and love crazed stuff like "Agartha" and I think some so-called alternative rocks . I have eclectic tastes, (and am way more open minded than the me of 10 years ago!) . Sot is now my main route to new music!
BTW I hear that Martin likes art! I am an abstract traditional artist! Art and music are my life! I H8 AI!
BTW 2 The Warlocks (Rise and Fall) could be on the "FUZZ" show,, which is much fun.
What a fantastic show great topic.
Thank you
When did we listen to music in the past? This is a good question. I don’t remember sitting and just listening back then much, although I know I did. I remember many social settings: parties, dances, roller skating, the beach, arcades, etc. Often when just doing stuff like showering, getting dressed, doing homework, etc. Pretty much always while driving, even with my parents. Today, I listen to a lot of news and podcasts, so I have to make a point to turn that stuff off and listen. I’ve got my vinyl set up now again, so during the weekends, I do enjoy putting on a few and just chilling with a cigar and a brew.
Greetings from Poughkeepsie. Anyone can release music today…which is both good and bad. I like all of the ways that I can consume music nowadays but it does seem like a lot at times, especially as a collector.
Technology has also lowered or removed many barriers that were in place back in the day. If they have the skills a band of musicians can put together an almost professional sounding album with a little more than a PC, some interfaces and a piece of software. In the '70s to get professional quality recordings you needed a studio. Not only for the skills (which are required to this day), but for the equipment.
This was such a great discussion. As a long time musician, it's nice to hear you guys echoing many of the same sentiments that I have shared with my close circle, as well as some points I hadn't thought about. Fantastic job, Pete and Martin.
Great topic, yes I still buy cds and last 3 years got back into vinyl after having lps back in the 80s and 90s, then moving to cds, but only getting my favourite hard rock/metal bands from 70s 80s and some 90s, while they are still around , but will always get the physical music not into Spotify, like to see and read what I am playing, admitting ly the text on cds and even some vinyl is too damn small to read, even if have 20 20 vision I am 65, but still live to crank it up. 🤘 oh and yes ticket prices are outrageous nowadays, not that get many HD HM bands coming to Perth.
I worked in college with teenagers and music is very much on the outside. It's no longer the main thing, gaming is the main thing followed by TV shows and films, music is after all that. Occasionally one track will sometimes come to the centre but it's not for long. They no longer go home and listen to music all night. It's heard through gaming or while doing something else. They can't just sit down and listen to an album or three and do nothing else, they have no attention span.
The music lover that can do that is no longer the normal. They are now on the edge. Probably considered odd even.
The concert might be sold out but it's more than half full of grey hair, no longer three quarters or more young folks. The numbers have changed.
Times change but it's sad that music is no longer the leader. Gaming is the leader now and as been for a couple of generations now.
I still go into the listening room and switch off for a couple of hours a day and just listen to an album all the way through. That used to be normal, most of my family think I'm a bit eccentric.
A great conversation lads, kinda makes me sad though..as a listener lately I’ve been buying lots of cds and still try to take time to listen , have an older car with cd player and usb. My vinyl from my youth collects dust in the basement. As an artist I love to write and record and I take all in stride. I put my music on Spotify and other streaming services, make cds because I love that physical thing,do my solo gigs here in beautiful Charlottetown, PEI, connect with tourist and hopefully some will enjoy my tunes, they’ll listen and share….it’s a money loosing proposition but a labor of love….so much to choose from now and you need to stay focused if you want to take the time to listen to music….the world sure is changing, AI is scary….take care lads and thanks for the great work you do…enjoy your days, enjoy your music……
you mentioned how the internet leads to weird sub genres…recently i stumbled on several all female, highly technical, Japanese Power Metal…including ones with gimmicks like “Band-Maid” where they shred wearing maid uniforms
That's not just an internet thing - many times music writers/critics will make up new genre names
This is an interesting discussion. I know that Joe Bonamassa created his own “record company” because he wasn’t getting any support by his label. He does his own promotion and gets all of the money.
He also fosters other artists on that label (J&R Adventures), like Black Country Communion & the excellent Beth Hart. I'm not a huge Bonamassa fan but that's commendable
I used to love going to the 2nd hand record shop in the mid late 70s, and buying a record by the cover or from a review in Sounds, or rarely on the radio.
I feel like listening to vinyl allows you to really listen to all the music because with digital you just get for a lack of a better term bored and by the end of a song I even like I am tempted to hit forward to the next song. It is part of our short attention span society. I think I appreciate the music more with vinyl.
It's got nothing to do with whether it's digital or vinyl. There are great songs in both mediums. There are also shitty ones in both.
Just like there always was.
Because I appreciate the artistic value as a creator myself, I always want to buy physical copies. And I like having something for my money. Downloads aren't real to me. I also refuse to buy ebooks.
This is semi true. I have noticed a spike in interest in vinyl collecting. I think a 180 is occurring with the way music is appreciated. People understand the loss of integrity by technology with music. There’s a sense of nostalgia and I think people realize that music is not as authentic and brilliant as it once was. So I think we are seeing a turnaround.
Look at King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. They've put out twenty-four albums since 2012. Not to mention the five albums in2017 and 2022. It took Jethro Tull over fifty years to put out twenty-three studio albums.
At 34:24 is exactly my big complaint- cars now have no cd players. We have to copy or rebuy music. It's ridiculous!
I seem to lose my way with rock music in the 90’s. Over here in the UK we still had no decent radio stations. Grunge and Britpop ruled🤮. I never could find any decent new stuff and drifted into other genres and even began to like those I hated in the 80’s. It’s only now with the likes of this channel and a decent British rock radio station I discovering bands I missed out on
Planet Rock 🤟👍🤟👍
Similar experience to me, it feels like ‘someone’ in the UK decided that metal and hard rock was ‘unfashionable’ in the 1990s. I was an older teenager in that decade and you get influenced by your peers and mainstream culture, I found it very hard to keep up with the metal scene as it was pushed out of the mainstream.
CZcams got me back into the metal and prog scenes and bands I truly like.
I don't think musicianship is as highly valued by people now. You can create your own music with software without being able to play a single instrument.
A good song is a good song, regardless of the genre. Old people like me (52yo) call the songs outside of our 'home genre' a guilty pleasure. For me, an example is 'Livin La Vida Loca' by Ricky Martin.
Todays generation listen to good songs across all genres, they don't seem to have a 'home genre'. My daughter goes from singing Emimem to 'the Pina Colada Song' in 10 minutes.
Promotion also comes into this. If a record company puts massive promotion dollars behind pop acts like Taylor Swift or Ed Sheerin they will have product identification. Contemporary rock bands and solo artists would also achieve this if they were promoted as vigorously. It could be argued that the recording companies do not want to promote rock as it is not their business model. They have less control over artistic output than they do over commercial output. I am a physical media owner and advocate who does not enjoy downloaded music. But then again, I don't own or care less about autotuned pop either.
Really great discussion, thank you.
I just got back into buying physical media mainly cds i find i listen to alot more albums front to back compared to if i was on utube,guess its more of an appreciation and knowing thats the way the artist originally wanted you to listen to there album.Then again i buy alot of discogs,ebay,amazon Mostly all old stuff from 80,90s,early 2000 era.
First of all, technology (A.I. in this case) is great only if it makes peoples lives better, easier. Not worse in case of the arts, don't have A.I. dabbling into it, don't let it replace us, human beings! Not gonna happen!
About current, new music new bands, there's so much great real bands who play their own original music out there in US, UK and everywhere really. Don't rely on the music industry anymore cuz they simply not registering, can't keep up with all what's great and worthwhile..
Great video! Instant like and share! Cheers, guys
Good Show! thanks
Great conversation, gents! I'm a lifelong music fan and personally still buy physical copies of everything; not a download/spotify guy at all. That said, I don't necessarily think the the way things are going is bad or wrong; if other people don't want to buy records or CDs anymore, that's their prerogative. If the time comes where I have the option of owning a physical copy of an album that I want in my collection, then I might feel differently. But for now, we all have that option to download OR purchase a physical copy, and that's fine by me.
As for Steve Lukather's comments ... I can respect his viewpoint, but he sort of comes across much the same way that a trained classical or jazz musician probably sounded at the dawn of rock & roll back in the 50s. "I've worked years to get this good at my craft and now these delinquents come along who can barely play and they're getting all this acclaim and airplay!!" I'm not saying it's an invalid viewpoint for Steve to feel that way, but it's just the cycle of things. There's always been one-hit wonders in popular music, dating as far back as you want to go. That isn't new ... and how long does it take to be labeled as such? Just because five years passes doesn't necessarily mean you can't have another hit during the sixth year. And getting into it just to be "famous" ... well, that's really just sour grapes, isn't it? How many hundreds of musicians from the "classic rock" era have said "we saw all of the girls screaming at The Beatles on Ed Sullivan and thought - that's the job for me?" Getting rich & famous has long been the motivation for people to become musicians, so I don't think that's a valid criticism of today's younger generation.
But definitely a lot to unpack on this episode and a really good, thought-provoking conversation! Have a good weekend, Pete & Martin!
8:10 In his interview with Rick Beato, Ted Gioia said that music is not only a commodity but "merely a loss-leader to sell electronic devices". That said, there were times in the recent past when we welcomed new technology because albums were so expensive and there were so many damn middle-men. Turns out, those layers were adding value (e.g. album art, liner notes, etc). Random point: singles are prostituted into TV ads much quicker now, whereas there was once a decent amount of time before the "sell out", and before that, it was scandalous. Interesting discussion!
It’s raining stair rods here in my part of the UK
A GREAT EPISODE!
Love most of your shows and the discussion. Definitely the Deep Purple en Black Sabbath family tree discussions were entertaining. Love to hear your opinions on music genres that you may hate / dislike. Sometimes someone mentions grunge, but are there others? Where do you draw the line .... ?
Great conversation! Love hearing both your processes to discover new music. I do agree there is probably too much music coming out. Interestingly a new AI song generator came out this week called "Mubert", the claim is it doubled all the music that has ever been created (like 100 million songs). Who know? All I know it's completely nuts. I will stick with real musicians and more and more "older" greats, less and less do brand new releases mean much.
I'm OG in some way - i am . Remember time when i listened Iggy Pop " Brick by Brick " or "Appetite for Destruction " for months and months . Real question is next :" If we had what today kids have did we been the same ? " Or did great rock acts ever existed in such large numbers . Acts full of classic quality for decades . Gilmour and Watters played backgammon for years .Led Zeppelin have one of first video recorders and watched same movie for months . Today sport and games take 90 % of free time .
I think we can all agree on the fact that it was mainly the evolution in technology that has stripped music of pretty much all of its former relevance and glory. Hell, I used to love music, and I was just as thrilled as anybody when everything suddenly became way easier and cheaper to access. But looking back now, I wish there was a button I could press that froze the whole industry at the day before music could be shared in proper quality via the internet, cos I‘ve certainly grown tired of the fact that I can get everything I want without any major problems. I guess what I’m saying is, I am a spoiled wreck of a former music lover - but there’s just no going back. Yea, I‘ll keep downloading shit AND even buying vastly overpriced physical stuff, but mostly for compulsive completion purposes, not for reasons that have anything to do with passion. Sad, huh?